Islam or Atheism, Which One Makes More Sense?

[mariorigby]

Religious people have had thousands of years practicing their convincing and charismatic preaches to the masses. These masses fear the unknowing. Think of all the things we did not know 500 years ago that are now easily explainable now, such as; the moon, sun, universe, disease, natural disasters, psychology, science, etc. I wish we could use these skills Hamza has to link humanity together, help those that live in poverty and misery, etc.

As an atheist, I have so much life

[TheKenTerry]

This is by far the best argument against Atheism, and this is coming from an atheist. I'll tell you something, Muslims are much more educated on what they believe than christians. While I feel like there are some things I can say to refute some of these claims, I would rather put my verbal pistols in thier holsters and say "Great job on the lesson, I respect it."

[786islamicwarrior]

psalm964 if immanuel mean god is with us then whos son of God??? when jesus died for 3 days who was runing the show?? cuz immanuel mean god is with us not son of God cuz son of God according to christian is a God man in flesh if God died that mean world shud have ended the same time cuz no God to run the show

[flashjetmax]

Islam makes more sense to me I'd rather die believing God rather than die not believing him, and end up in hell. There were plenty times in my life when I debated whether to drop religion and become an atheist or continue to believe in God. I chose to believe in God, because what if I reject him, and die an atheist only to find out he really did exist? Than it'll be too late for me. Atheism to me, is just too risky.

[TheKenTerry]

@flashjetmax

Please don't choose your answer because of fear, do what you do because you believe it.

[mariorigby]

@flashjetmax You are riddled with fear my friend. Fear in-slaves your consciousness

[anythingnew]

@flashjetmax Ask yourself, if a god that would send such a good person to hell, really a good god that deserves worship?

[psalm964]

Jesus,name above all names! Beautiful Savior,glorious Lord! Immanuel,God is with us! Blessed redeemer,Living Word!

[lennex88]

@psalm964 god isnt real dipshit

[msteele79]

The truth is, true believers in a religion already have their questions answered by their holy books. As such, they don't need to seek truth anymore. Nonbelievers never stop seeking truth, and don't stop their search until they A) find that truth, or B) decide to stop seeking truth and accept an explanation because it's comfortable. I'm going to stick to A.

[edlgotbanged]

@msteele79 No, how does searching for evidence prove we are non Belivers ?.

Wow some stupid Analogy, yes but SOME CLAIMS in the Qur'an, you only found out NOW, such as the dead see being the lowest point on earth, or an expanding universe, or the cats eye nebula or the darkness in the Ocean layer by layer.

[msteele79]

@edlgotbanged

Believers don't have to search for evidence, it's all in the Qu'ran right?

[edlgotbanged]

@msteele79 True, But the Qur'an tells us to research if its claims are true. It does not say Belive this with blind faith, rather we are told to go out and research.

[peace4universe]

@msteele79

Holy books are there for moral guidance and ask mankind to travel through the earth and contemplate on its wonders and search for the technical knowledge .

Muslims translated and collected many works from other cultures as Muslims believe that knowledge is from God.

But for moral guidance Qurán and Hadiths are sufficient so no one can show us any light in this aspect of human knowledge

[peace4universe]

@msteele79

If you are talking about searching the truth for our existence or existence of God then these truths cannot be found within a short span of time while we live on earth.

So what will decide our fate if God exists and we are supposed to be raised up to give an account of our deeds in the hereafter ?

Can we find God on experimentations ??

Shouldn't there be some criteria for acceptance of God ??

[msteele79]

Now, you may argue that I am falling into the exact same "reasonable vs. empirical" argument that Hamza talks about in his video. But his arguments are a straw man, and if you accused me of this, yours would be too. If you have extraordinary claims, you require extraordinary evidence. If I go into a court of law and say that something happened, I have to show evidence for how it happened, no matter how much sense it makes, or how hard I argue for it to be true. Gods are no different.

[edlgotbanged]

@msteele79 Lol, yes but the Evidence we point to such as the Universe and other things you are quick to jump and say they are 'Natural' BUT to argue that its natural and this some how proves God did not do it is STUPID. Nature and everything was CREATED after the stupid term 'Big Bang' << the term is not possible I will let you figur out how its not. THE TERM OK NOT THE IDEA. so all these causes where created by that first cause, we belive that to be Allah swt, THE UNCAUSED CAUSER OF ALL.

[msteele79]

@edlgotbanged

You're still putting words in my mouth. I never said anything about the universe being natural. I said we can't know.

You're still arguing from the conclusion that there is a god. So we don't really have a dialogue, you're incapable of thinking otherwise.

Your cause, again, has yet to be proven to be a higher power. The truth is, we don't know what it is, and again, making something up doesn't mean it's true.

[edlgotbanged]

@msteele79 The Universe is EXTREMLY EXTRAORDINARY, but when we use this as proof you are quick to say its natural and this cancels out the idea of God making it. And im blind. Yeah the Irony LOL.

[msteele79]

@edlgotbanged

The universe is certainly amazing, as for being extraordinary, as it's the only universe we know, it can't be (logically) anything other than ordinary.

I never said a god didn't make the universe, you're still putting words in my mouth. I said we can't know.

Stop making straw man arguments and try to look at what I'm saying honestly.

[msteele79]

I'm watching this video a second time to make sure I'm understanding everything he says, and the absurdity of his points is only reinforced.

There is absolutely no reason to think we can understand what happened up until the universe came into being. Any efforts to justify faith to support made-up explanations are only going to breed contempt, which is what I'm feeling right now, at the absurdity.

[jmlew]

@msteele79

Thanks for the comment. Although I can't say that I'm surprised my comment was removed. It's rather ironic this video is preaching rationality yet the author doesn't believe in free speech. The speaker is essentially telling these students "what to think" and not "how to think" for themselves. He creates false dichotomies by saying "we're rational, they're not" and makes no effort to reconcile similarities - a shining example of religion's divisive mechanism at work.

[msteele79]

@jmlew

What I find most amusing is that same dichotomy. These atheists are not rational "chuckle" yet watch them try to use rational arguments "chuckle" like one can only think rationally or empirically. I'm amazed anyone is duped by the sheer weight of intellectual dishonesty in his presentation.

[edlgotbanged]

@msteele79 I am sure you will not mind debating him then ? am I right, if you think hes wrong, then go contact him.

[msteele79]

@edlgotbanged

Let me explain something to you. EVERY believer thinks they are right and anyone who thinks differently is wrong. Having faith means, more often than not, that you are not capable of the same reason this man is claiming rules his way of thinking. To decide that the ultimate truths in life are based on something you only feel and do not (and will not ever) actually know for a fact, means you are willing to set aside knowledge for faith. Why would I ever debate someone so blind?

[edlgotbanged]

@msteele79 Urm hes so blind, Well then theres a small time youtuber here on youtube called Sami Zataari, go debate him if you think you have it easy. No, the Qur'an tells us to go and educate our selves moron. It tells us to reflect and ponder about our selves and this world and the universe. So some statments in the Qur'an are only being found out now, such as the EXPANDING UNIVERSE. Do not say he made many wild claims that may become true.

[msteele79]

@edlgotbanged

I never said he made "wild" claims.

And I've seen plenty of Sami Zataari. He's got nothing to offer.

Also, as i've already said, believers in higher powers have already decided what the truth is, and it's always according to their faith. That means the same "reason" Hamza is talking about is impossible, unless that "reason" supports the explanation that leads to the faith of the person making the argument.

[edlgotbanged]

@msteele79 Why would a man make a claim like 'The universe is expanding' without having any shred of proof?

Now you are getting very silly.

[msteele79]

@edlgotbanged

There is plenty of proof that the universe is expanding. Nothing silly about that. The expansion of the universe wasn't brought up, by the way, until you did just now, I never said anything about it. Please don't put words in my mouth, it's dishonest.

[edlgotbanged]

@msteele79 I never said you said that, I said how does a MAN in A DESERT 1,400 years ago say the Universe was EXPANDING, you really did not understand what I said, how did he make that claim with out having a SHRED of EVIDENCE BACK THEN ?

[msteele79]

@edlgotbanged

Do you understand the scientific method? A claim is postulated, it is then examined based on the evidence available by other people and determined to be valid or invalid. Making a claim which turns out to be true does NOT mean it was a divinely inspired idea, no matter how plausible. If you can't show how the inspiration from supernatural sources happened you have no argument.

Have you ever read the Bhagavad Gita? It was written long, long, LONG before the Qu'ran.

[edlgotbanged]

@msteele79 Of course I do. if a man 1,400 was talking about, The Big bang, The expanding Universe, the darkness of the Oceans layer by layer, you tell me where all that random knowledge came from ? Answer me.

[edlgotbanged]

@msteele79 obviosally I meant it was DIVINE, not from Muhammad pbuh. Exactly he did NOT write it down. verses where revealed, written down then collected and compiled together, if there was an error, you would make one chapter like it so come.

[msteele79]

@edlgotbanged

This is turning very stupid very quickly. I've made all of the points I need to make, anyone reading this can judge for themselves.

"Oh yeah, well if anyone can write a Qu'ran then why don't you?" Is this all you can say, after all of your arguments have been defeated?

Have you never heard of Joseph Smith and Mormonism? He did exactly that. I have no interest in it, I'm trying to steer people AWAY from religion why would I want to help any of them?

[edlgotbanged]

@msteele79 Ok yes let people Judge for them selves what the truth is.

All im saying its impossible for an illiterate man to compile such a book that no one can match it.

Some of the knowledge that was told as well such as the big bang, Expanding universe and other things, but it is important to note out that the Qur'an is NOT a science textbook, rather its here to guide out lives. The Science part is only to make people think.

Salam.

[edlgotbanged]

@msteele79 No I have not read it, and If by this you are trying to say that the Qur'an some how plagarised the work, then this would Mean it was written by man, so if this is what you are purporting then I am SURE you can make one chapter. Saying Its impossible is another way of backing down. If it was written by man then surely now days the more 'Educated' beings could make EVEN ONE chapter like it, I dare you make one please and show the whole world.

[msteele79]

@edlgotbanged

I'm not saying the Qu'ran plagiarized anything. I'm saying that even though there are many claims in the Bhagavad Gita which we would call true, and it was written before the Bible OR the Qu'ran, we have still have no reason to believe it is divine in any way.

Why would I want to write anything to mislead people? Religions are designed to control, and I have no desire to control anyone, only to try to help people look past their blind faith and think clearly.

[edlgotbanged]

@msteele79 How can an illiterate man make such an Eloquoent book ? If he was Illiterate, I am sure you can take this challenge up.

[msteele79]

@edlgotbanged

Your faith tells you that an illiterate man wrote it. There is no evidence that he did.

Your challenge holds absolutely no interest to me, as it is based on false premises, namely that Muhammad wrote it, for which there is no evidence, and that it was divinely inspired, for which there is also no evidence. As someone else could've easily written it, your challenge is ridiculous. And as I said, I have no desire to control others.

[edlgotbanged]

@msteele79 No my faith does not rquire me to believe an illiterate wrote the Qur'an, WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THIS FROM ?

[msteele79]

@jmlew

I read this before it was removed, and there was nothing wrong with this comment. Most likely my own words will also be removed. Long live free thinking through censorship :)

[msteele79]

Saying that the only argument against the Cosmological argument is an irrational one invalidates pretty much your entire video. If you don't see the problem with the Cosmological argument, you're not going to be able to understand the problems with the rest of what you're saying.

Here's a more accurate theory:

1) Belief in a higher power is the only proof of that higher power.

2) Higher powers only exists for those with belief.

3) If one does not have faith in a higher power, it does not exist.

[kamlasayeen]

@msteele79 How is belief in a higher power the only proof for the existence of a higher power?

Also, what is the problem with the cosmological argument?

[msteele79]

@kamlasayeen

No proof of a higher power has ever been demonstrated.

The cosmological argument says that there must be a cause for the universe to exist. It does not correctly explain why that cause has to be a supernatural all-powerful being, much less any god in particular. On top of that, any such god must have a cause as well. If the response to that is that a god is beyond causes, that too has never been demonstrated and is an invalid argument.

[kamlasayeen]

@msteele79

So what he said about empiricals needing something that they can measure/see is true? (since you said that you need tangible proof--which I think there is)

Also did you watch the whole video, especially the part about him talking about "what caused God"?

[msteele79]

@kamlasayeen

I think it's unfounded to say that there are people who only think empirically or reasonably, we're all more complicated than that. Saying some people are unable to think reasonably is creating a straw man argument. There is NO reason to think a higher power exists just because we can comprehend the concept. There have been thousands of examples of gods throughout history, any one of them could be correct, or none of them.

Yes, I did.

[edlgotbanged]

@msteele79 Failed if God had a cause then we would not be here, seeing as there was UNCAUSED, CAUSE that CUASED everything to come. To step back and say well who caused the cause, we will be rolling into INFINITE REGRESS, that would mean, ME AND YOU RIGHT NOW WOULD NOT BE HERE, TOMMOROW WOULD NEVER COME, NOR WOULD TODAY. So the argument of who caused God is illogical.

[msteele79]

@edlgotbanged

You are still arguing for the uknowable. We cannot know what happened before the beginning of the universe, as neither time nor space existed as we know it now. We can't just make up a logical conclusion that fits our ideology and call it the absolute truth because we can't think of anything else. Well, I'm sorry to say, making something up, no matter how plausible, is still making something up.

[edlgotbanged]

@msteele79 How did we make this up, If it where made up, you could PROVE Muhammad pbuh wrote the Qur'an, since now NO ONE HAS and yet you people still claim it was written by him. If it was written by man im sure man can reproduce it again, seeing as now days people are so 'Educated' Lol, yet you still can not make one chapter. Who said God is bound to our laws ? God does not need oxygen or land to walk, No one knows what Allah swt looks like.

[msteele79]

@edlgotbanged

Assumptions, assertions, and more hot air.

[msteele79]

@edlgotbanged

As for your point about a god being a cause of the universe, you're stuck in the cosmological argument. You're going to have to think outside it's hypothesis to discuss this, as the problem with it is too much of a logical fallacy for it to ever be considered the one and only true explanation.

[edlgotbanged]

@msteele79 No your argument against that was that What caused God and blah blah, everything in TIME is created and later destroyed, God was the FIRST UNCAUSED CAUSE, that put everything into play, out side the Universe there is NO TIME NOR SPACE. God was out side the Universe when it was made, No time effected them, If you want to debate, debate Hamza, not me im no proffesor on this subject.

[msteele79]

@edlgotbanged

More assertions, assumptions, and hot air. You're ASSUMING a god exists without knowing one way or another in any way except your faith that it is true. Please try to see the dishonesty of that.

I don't want to debate anyone who cannot be honest in their arguments and admit that they are basing them on faith rather than actual knowledge.

[edlgotbanged]

@msteele79 No I never said you said that, I said that to me you are implying that. Do not make stuff up then you have the cheek to say Im being unfair. I only said them things ASSUMING that that was what you meant. If you elaborated then I would not have.

[khalilrabee]

@jmlew well go ahead and prove him wrong....in think believing that saying that a monkey evolved from a retarded fish thing is really irrational...personal opinion...maybe other muslims will disagree with me...ill ask them

BROTHERS AND SISTERS ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION: DO YOU BELIEVE THAT SAYING THAT A MONKEY EVOLVED FROM A RETARDED FISH IS RATIONAL OR IRRATIONAL?

ok now we will wait for answers

[1876alamo]

Atheism makes more sense. Look up what George Carlin has to say about God and religion.

It is all a con to get you to act like they want you to act, based on fear.

[NinjaKiyo]

@1876alamo Yes, a comedian should teach us truths about our existence. Lol

[muslimgiga]

@1876alamo and aithiests are fearless? OH OK. tats why so many people in the US commit suicide? depressed etc? Ya OK

[peace4universe]

@1876alamo

/watch?v=NrjDv6MC0jM

Atheism has lost its scientific foundations with the 21st century science.

[TRUTHOFISLAM]

what aqeedah is this brother? Ashari? Maturidi? Muatazilla? Ilmul-Kalam?

[erisolga]

@TRUTHOFISLAM AHLUL SUNNAH. i met him. He is really good. His talks are generally to non muslim audience

[edlgotbanged]

This Apologetic is very good MashAllah.