This is what USSR did...everyone had a job, then you had to wait in line for hours for basic staples...my Russian friend back in the 80's once said to me "you know, I really like your distribution centers, and my wife like it too much I can't keep her out of there"...he was talking about a store that was like Walmart, something that is impossible to have a government guaranteed jobs program...get the gov out...the jobs will return....you can't mandate jobs and wages....
I heard $130 billion for 13 million jobs..... $7.25 x 2000 hours (full-time job) x 13 million people = $188,500,000,000 before benefits, WHAT AM I MISSING? I'm obviously doing something wrong here. Anyone?
Why aren't we hearing more suggestions like this within the mainstream? I'm tired of hearing complaints about GOP politics and policies. The doomsday predictions need to be countered with well-reasoned problem solving. More solutions need to be brought to the table. This is certainly a step in the right direction.
I think having a healthy society of equality requires relinquishment at a certain level of wealth--maybe we could put a ceiling on wealth so that when you work you can only earn to a certain level of wealth --all the rest goes to a common wealth & is redistributed--if you want to keep working you can & receive some other kind of reward,or recognition, for your efforts - or you can spend a lot & go back down below & then begin earning again-or go into non profit or enjoy what you have & retire-
Our politicians knows very well where we're going to end up.
It was written and constantly repeated by the journalist Paul Barnard.
As Italian you already know very well that our politicians are all corrupt.
We don’t have any kind of information by our left-gatekeepers because they too are enrolled from big bankers. This way we don’t see any uprising because people are ignoring the problem.
They’re thinking that the only problem is Berlusconi
-how about factories that people could work at where they make (good quality) computers, learning software, economic electric cars,tools, appliances that can be issued as benefits to those who receive them.So we can hire people who are on welfare, give flexible,reasonable hours to work in places that build goods that can be issued as part of the benefits-- so there is a circular thing going on there-that way low income people can have a job & benefits & contribute to actually making their needs.
This idea extends to farming quality organic foods,instruments,art equipment, houses,homes,parks, A thing I'd like to see is cross country biker/hiker highways, for use strictly for bikers/hikers-criss crossing the country so people can travel the country (without cars) for recreation & travel-
Id like to see quality subsidized housing where we hire artists to build structures as works of art dedicated to low income people so low income have people have good environment to live in.
Certain things have be taken into account though that are outside of economic-not unrelated but outside of--like I get benefits and SSI--I have depression,anxiety, severe social difficulty, stress issues, difficulty dealing with people-it is more complex thatn I can type into this box--but I really wouldn't want to work too much because--I can't I have these issues& going out and interacting with people is too much for me- what about people kind like me who can't work for whatever reason?
@bcolton73 Yes we do. It's called the Federal Reserve. They give the government money in return for U.S. Treasuries. The U.S. government pays the Fed interest on those T-bills.
@Antiks72 It's just accounting. The Fed is part of the government, the "independent, private" ruse doesn't work on people like me who know how things actually work. You clearly do not understand monetary operations.
@Antiks72 Your obsession with penis is telling. And I've done much more than read one article. Your consistent mix of poor argument and personal insults makes me feel sad for you. What an angry closeted homosexual you are.
This guy is clueless. where does the money for the stat block grants come from... ? why does he omit the fact that eliminating employee payroll taxes reduces tax revenue to the government and the employers portion is really the employees portion since its all payroll expense to the employer anyway. Typical academic no nothing.
This is how he should have answered the question about inflation. "Inflation happens when the growth of money supply exceeds the growth of work/goods produced. In my plan we would be expanding the money supply, but we will also be increasing the amount of work/goods produced."
WALL STREET TAX!!!! 1% derivative turnover on quadrillion of derivatives will pay for all state and federal deficits eliminating any needs for austerity.
His Payroll tax idea is controversial because it tends to underfund SS, unless the growth in the economy is such that more income is crerated and thus total contributions go up.
All tax money is taken with threat of force and like all other violence should be resisted and abolished. If wealth didn't go to the corrupt org called gov, nice folks could cooperate and do much more good.
You would think by the questions Paul Jay asks that he would be a conservative. But I know he's just playing devil's advocate. But if a person had never watched The Real News, they might think Paul Jay asks tough questions to the guests because he disagrees with them. But he asks the tough questions because he's a good journalist. There are no softball questions from him. He even made this man do math in this interview! Paul Jay wouldn't let it go until the guy came up with a precise number! Ha!
I liked what he had to say about rebuilding the infrastructure, which is where the 13 million + jobs will come from, should it happen. Updating and upgrading the bridges, dams, roads, dilapidated homes, etc would help and we can reinvest in urban development instead of allowing poor sections of major cities to just crumble. With an increase to local and state funding they can hire more police to help combat the criminal element in those poor areas and provide safe neighborhoods for new families.
what an awesome interview, i'm really looking forward to the debate, even though i have a suspicion that i already know who i'll probably agree with ;)
If this New "New Deal" were to happen now, you would have hoards of racist, unwashed, flag-waving, tea-partier Limbaughists rioting over Obama making an "executive army."
@DeePhlat those forces have to be confronted sooner or later anyway. i think better sooner than later. because if progressives don't provide the solution to the crisis, those "limbaughists" will... and we all know what that is going to look like...
wise words. It's really what American needs too. I think looking back at what FDR was doing during the Great Depression was that he actually for a while did not have a clue what he was doing- the New Deal was very much trial and error and product of its times- of hectic, wild times.
Only the FDR Glass-Steagall principle will separate commercial from speculative banking, thus freeing the nation from obligations to Wall St. and the City of London, and re-establishing a credit system for rebuilding the nation.H.R. 1489, Return to Prudent Banking Act of 2011, is before the House of Representatives, which aims to revive the separation between commercial banking and the securities business, in the manner provided in the Banking Act of 1933, the so called 'Glass-Steagall Act
They are right when they don't really call it a "Great Depression"
In the Great Depression, the people who lost and were jumping off buildings were the bankers and corporate execs themselves
Today, they learned the trick of reversing the roles through the Federal Reserve. The average American doesn't know about the Fed and/or how illegal it is to have it issuing "paper money" instead of "gold & silver" coins instead.
Until people learn there is no diff. between Rep & Dem nothing will change
Roland Arnall of Ameriquest Mortgage was so tight with Bush that the Texas Rangers named their stadium Ameriquest Field until 2007 when Attorney Generals regulated of his fraud operation in court. AG's from 50 states & the FBI wanted predatory lending frauds stopped by Bush in 2003-4. All these AG's & FBI knew what was happening well b4 this. Bush's response? 30-1 lending reserves in 04 adding fuel to the fire. AIG's CEO Greenberg forced to resign in 05. Draw your own conclusions.
RNN, if you want more people to listen, distance yourself from mainstream narrative (jooobs, inflation/deflation, fake employment, workers rights pro and contra, juggling abstract numbers etc.). Be first, find guests who will explore economic/political situation from new angle and according to reality. Stop kicking grandma, she is dead, this narrative is dead. Its quasi-antagonistic to mainstream as long as you use their vocabulary and framework (but with "leftist" whatever that is, perspective)
This guy sounds like he's for raising the deficit ceiling. He's saying a reduction in government speading will precipitate the next recession? I dont think so.
@thotkrime Obviously he's for raising the debt ceiling, as is any sane person. The "debate" among DC pols over whether to raise it or not is a bunch of BS; everyone knows it will be raised.
When you already have high unemployment and a slow economy, decreasing activity (i.e. reducing spending) absolutely can depress things further. It's not that complicated is it? On the flip side, his ideas of block grants for states and a payroll tax holiday are ways the feds can *spend* that would help.
@jstncbllr That keynsian shit isn't working any more. If it ever did, why dont we just print a shit load of money and drop it out of helicopters? Its absurd logic, but hey, people are going to believe what they want, so yea you're right.
@bcolton73 Keynsian economics advocates central planning of an economy which is what is clearly happening. you want to match wits with me? Im well versed in economics and finance, so go suck bernanke's dick.
@thotkrime Very intellectually compelling. I'd gladly match wits with you, but I'll have to find a place to put the spare I'll have when I do. In the mean time, what evidence do you have that this is in any way "central planning/" Do you even know what the term means?
@bcolton73 If you can't take a look at the federal reserve and disern that dictating interest rates is central planning it's pointless to try to have a conversation with you. Crack a book.
@thotkrime Could not find a single source that equates setting the price of money via short-term rates with central planning. Unless you define central planning as anything other than total market control over everything, which is an absolutist position that has no basis in sound economics or reality. Care to cite a single reference to support interest rate setting = central planning? Oh, wait, yes Hayek and Mises. (or perversions thereof). Of course. Discredited loons follow them. Idiot.
@bcolton73 You don't need to find a source if you have a brain. It's called critical thinking skills. Sheep like you can't have an origional thought unless it first comes from some government certified "expert" like keynes. Prices being determined by market forces is what creates the optimal pricing for society, that applies to capital markets. When Bernanke in all his infitite wisdom sets the interest rate he circumvents the market efficiency hypothesis in asset pricing and thus we have...
@thotkrime I assure you my critical thinking skills are intact, and far superior to yours, but thanks for the lecture. Keynes is but a part of understanding macro in the real world, as opposed to Austrian non-sense, which describes not reality but a Monetarist fantasy. The efficient market hypothesis is a fantasy. That said, neither I nor Prof Wray believe that the Fed is effective at increasing aggregate demand, which is what we need to get out of this recession. Read Wray's work on MMT.
the boom bust cycle created by enifficent asset pricing. And as far as the austrian school being discredited that's just plain ficticious, free market is wht made America great and communist countries second and thrid rate hell holes. History blows that argument out of the water.
@thotkrime American economic power is and always has been partly a function of various government intervention (protectionism, curbing monopoly, etc.). This is simply a fact. You cannot wish it away. We don't have a "free market" never have had one, and your own Austrian definitions tell you that. The funny thing is, we'd probably agree about the Fed, but that isn't what Wray advocates anyway. Wray and others in MMT describe the banking and monetary systems are they actually are.
Are fucking kidding me! Listen to this keynesian crap."We need the government to create jobs13 million jobs" "we need a new deal" are you fucking kidding me! "whats the bill and how are you going to pay it?" um... "1-2% GDP will pay for it" 130 billion will create 13million jobs and give you free healthcare and double minimum wage! Who's stpuid enough to believe this shit.There own self reporting is 160k-300k to create 1 job! times that by 13 million pretty sure it's not 130billion
@Cosbibi Wrong on so many levels, but even if you where right you are DOUBLE your own estimations.What about fraud,waste,kickbacks,bureaucratic overhead and just the plain logistical problem of overseeing a project of that proportion?Which this asshat refused to even address when asked point blankly.Name ONE just ONE government program that has ever met it's cost projections?JUST ONE! By there own self reporting every job created has cost anywhere from 160k-300k+ Dude you are in fantasy land!
@bcolton73 You guy who advocate a centrally planned economy are so irrational and stuck in circular logic it's like debating with theists.I'm under the impression now that you guys have underlining suicidal tendencies and just project it onto the world with your cult like worship of the state and it's economic benevolence.You completely ignore empirical evidence ; EU,japan,US and "stagflation is impossible".Go to Q.E. 100, the state is finished and we all know it! buying 90% of your own T-bonds!
@usernameted1 Who is advocating a centrally planned economy? I don't ignore any evidence. You enjoy debating straw men, huh? And QE doesn't work, that is not what is being advocated here.
@bcolton73 You are advocating the author of this videos views, who wants to use money involuntarily taken to "stimulate" job growth.So by default you are saying a small number of mostly unelected bureaucrats can predict and plan a almost infinitely complex mechanism as the free market (future and current consumer demand and the most efficient way to predict and meet those demands) is just narcissistic and completely anti empirical.Any state interdiction into the market is central planning
@usernameted1 "Involuntarily taken?" As are all taxes. You don't understand, he isn't talking about spending tax money, because the Federal government doesn't do that. Your point does not at all follow. Your definition of central panning is extraordinarily extremist, and unsupported by any reasonable economist. I suggest you aquatint yourself with MMT, which Prof. Wray is a leading scholar and proponent of. However, your comment indicates you are a free market radical, and won't accept facts.
@bcolton73 If applying the non aggression principal consistently and using reason and evidence as a methodology to form conclusions vs. forming (or being taught ) conclusions first and then using ex post facto reasoning to justify those conclusions, by all means call me a "free market radical".Oh yeah, just throwing around adjectives "extremist" "radical" and so on are poor substitutes for using a logical framework to defend or debate your positions.My suggestion would be Austrian economics.
we need :The Homeowners and Bank Protection Act - by mr. Lyndon Larouche., and then We go for NAWAPA project .....!! Glass-Steagall is of course the first step .... to make all this happen.....
Only the FDR Glass-Steagall principle will separate commercial from speculative banking, thus freeing the nation from obligations to Wall St. and the City of London, and re-establishing a credit system for rebuilding the nation.
H.R. 1489, Return to Prudent Banking Act of 2011, is before the House of Representatives, which aims to revive the separation between commercial banking and the securities business, in the manner provided in the Banking Act of 1933, the so called 'Glass-Steagall Act
Politicians hypnotize the sheep - all is better, yet the “Books are Cooked.” Spend 20 trillion $ to prop up the elite and too big to fails. Yet, Q1 GDP downgraded. Unemployment up. Real inflation up. State’s financial crisis continues. No prosecutions for fraud committed by the banks. Logic of un-representative politicians: fight more wars & whip the masses with austerity & increased taxes because jobs will be created that way.
Minimum wage (with benefits) is STILL NOT a living wage in the US. Maybe it's a livable wage in Mexico, India or China, but NOT in the US.
How are people supposed to live on minimum wage jobs, even with benefits?
I agree that a "New Deal" program is necessary, but NOT at a "Standard of Living" that is unrealistic for people in the US. Providing people with less money than is required to live on, does NOTHING for people that are now unemployed.
If you can put money in the hands of the poor for productive work, I'm all for it. Maybe you can give people a leg up into the job market. It would take away the excuses for not working if you are able bodied. There is, of course, no political will for a program like this, so it will never happen.
This my friends is what is wrong with Neo Classical and Keynesian economics... This guy has has no issue with "creating" as much money as is needed for his plan.
Yep lets just print up at least $130bn... Modern Monetary Theory gone wild.
@jjcale1111 Yes, while the austrolibertarians just tank the economy into hell by deregulating finance, requiring trillions upon trillions of fake money to avert an all out revolt/military coup as it routinely happens in the third world. That's truly a sound theory.
@DonVoghano Umm you obviously have Austrian economic theory all wrong. The crash occurred because of malinvestment due to artificially low interest rates. Plus big banks know they can count on the government to bail them out. Our country hasn't adhered to anything close to a true free market system since before World War 1. Also Austrian economist want to go back on the gold standard and they are opposed to fiat money.
@MzBUZZKILINGTON Why would you even respond to that mindless drivel."Yes, while the austrolibertarians just tank the economy into hell by deregulating finance, requiring trillions upon trillions of fake money to avert an all out revolt/military coup as it routinely happens in the third world. That's truly a sound theory " What country in the world has The Austrian school controlling/influencing economic policy?who are these Austrian's that "deregulated" the market.Freakin fantasy land!
@MzBUZZKILINGTON The point is not pretty ideals, the Communists were good at those too, the point is the road that should get us there. For the past 40 years "neoliberal" Friedmanite economists have been the mainstream in all Western institutions and have been sent in droves to third world countries where they have wreaked unprecedented havoc. Just about every policy that they have supported has resulted in disaster for the masses and unseen heaven for rich oligarchies around the globe.
@DonVoghano Exactly, that lack of ideals, a sort of economic pragmitism and "keynesian" model of economics is what spread to those countries. Let me ask you this. What bank would loan money would loan hundred of millions of dollars to populations of impoverished inner-city projects and then demand replayment on loans several years down the road? Never, right? This is the sort of policy that's called capitalistic enacted by the world bank for decades. You don't know what capitalism is.
@MzBUZZKILINGTON The first thing a real capitalist should be worrying atm is the end of barriers to entry for people. Goods can travel freely, but people can't: that's by far the BIGGEST market violation at the moment, and one that I don't see the libertarian front taking it too seriously. Fact is this "free market" bullshit clogging the airwaves is just being used as an ideological tool of control.
@DonVoghano I don't know what you mean by barriers to entry of people. And finally I can agree with you about something. Most of the "free market" economic policies being put forth are just policies that take away the power of the consumer and puts more money in the pocket of companies. Our entire regulatory process as far as I know helps out large businesses at the expense of smaller ones and consumers.
@leptonsoup337 Hey, that's how you make them profitable. Is there a single modern industry that would be profitable without public subsidies/bailouts?
"Raising minimum wage does not come to much." Huh? His whole point is that all wages will adjust up through the economy. That is a key part of the engine of inflation. The second part of the engine is the Fed increasing money supply such as help to banks, states, jobs programs, etc.. Third and really first part is commodity inflation, ie. cost of food, fuel, medicine... You know, the stuff you can't live without.
Expecting employers to pay higher minimum wage means that fewer young workers will not find entry level jobs. Minimum wage is NOT a living wage, it is the wage that is paid for an unskilled worker pays while learning to be skilled. The problem is that many employers treat minimum wage as prevailing wage. This is possible because labor supply exceeds labor demand.
Answer: stop illegal immigration so exploitation of illegals ends.
Block grants to the states, payroll tax relief, compensating banks for renegotiating bad mortgages and jobs programs = bigger deficits. We are at the limit of our national credit limit. S & P is about to downgrade US debt which will cause a death spiral because we will need to pay a risk premium on our debt.
More hand waving from Paul Jay. Here's a summary. We're NOT going to get change unless their a crisis. But, let's spend 30 minutes talking about how we can fix things. One BIG jerk-off fest going on here!
The mistake here is that this man seems to think that financial institutions want a stable economy with an employable work force when what they actually want is a high profit, low wage, low employment economy. Capitalism is most profitable when there is a huge pool of unemployed labour as this reduces the costs of production. That's why China and India have grown economically, although the great mass of the workers have no benefit.
@colourmegone, Sorry to disagree. Financial institutions want a strong middle class that can pay loans, credit card fees and other products. Paying low wages is a secondary objective. What they do not want is a middle class that pays off their loans, pays off their high interest credit cards. China & India grew economically because they created a middle class that could consume housing, food, clothing and services produced locally. The lower class has grown so much, they are still poor.
Just look at the major economies worldwide. Look at inflation over the last few years. Accelerating wildly.
You are reading the wrong history books, obviously ones written by control freak statists who don't want you to understand money.
Ever hear about the fall of Rome and coin shaving? What about the founders of the USA who were extremely adverse to fiat because of the MANY examples of runaway inflation in their times
Yes, Rome had inflation. Yes, many fiat currencies have led to rampant inflation because they have been poorly administered. No, that doesn't mean they eventually lead to inflation. Neither does inflation mean collapse.
On the flip-side all fixed-value systems of money eventually lead to deflation as it has to be expected (large growth set to the value of a finite resource).
Sure, we can dance around what "collapse" means and what it could mean. I take it as obvious that fiat is more prone to CORRUPTION, greed, and class stratification. (The bankers, who change the rules at a whim, being the masters and everyone else being the slaves.) A fiduciary system imparts a value to the "money" which implies something called risk in all cases, to all transactions and all transactors. Debts and losses cannot as easily be socialized.
1. Also, I have not advocated a "fixed-value" money system.
2. Deflation is not the anti-Christ either, it has some positive aspects. The utra-powerful (bankers) hate it because it tends to reward savers. The little guy who saves enough doesn't have to be thier slave anymore. This pisses them off.
It may be more prone to corruption, but it doesn't need to lead to "corruption, greed and class stratification" - it can be controlled. The risk is there, though. I would argue that losses can be socialized even more easily than they would be in gold-standardized economies, as fiat currencies allow for more tools by which one can control the economy.
You say that a fiat money system "can be controlled." What real world evidence can you give of that?
Your international fiat banking masters, along with their puppets in government, in effect print out huge amounts of "money" and give it mostly to themselves and their friends. This trend is accelerating. This doesn't appear to be controllable from any perspective.
History shows the same moral hazzards of fiat money, exploited by the elite, over and over and over.
@mikem720 Your absolutly right I would challenge anyone to show me a fiat money system that worked and didnt eventualy collapse. Andrew jackson knew that and that is why he got rid of fiat money paid the national debt and set us up on the gold and silver standard. It was Wilson who gave our currecy back to the big banks and fiat money, who later admitted that he had made a grave mistake in doing so.
@lastritesread The problem is not so much fiat vs non-fiat, the problem is too much power given to certain financial institutions. The fiat system worked like a charm giving the best growth in human history as long as we had smaller competing banks. As those institutions corrupted the govt that was supposed to regulate them and became super-giant their power over society became near absolute.
@mikem720 The real world evidence is plainly visible in working democracies like Germanic social-democratic/ordoliberal countries in which the state was marginally able to control the explosion in power of their banks. They encountered the same problems we did but managed them much better, just take the countermeasures to financial break-downs in Sweden or more recently Iceland... The only way to make capitalism work is through ordoliberalism, everything else will become oligarchy.
@eshnajizzle Unlike how Randal explains it, fiat money is not created into existence it is loaned into existence. It has to be paid back with interest. The money to pay the interest back doesn't exist so that has to be loaned into being too. Its a ponzi scheme. All fiat currencies have a finite lifespan before a collapse, and we are approaching the end of the US dollar as we know it.
It is in fact irrelevant where the money originates from, as it is mainly about trust. Yes, it is a loan. The way to pay it back with interest is through greater production than yield rate. That's what all loans are based on.
You get people to trust that you will do something with the money to create more value. You pay a fee for that trust (interest) and keep the rest of the surplus production. You have, in essence, created money out of nothing.
@eshnajizzle I think you miss the point, when the inevitable occurs and an economy can not grow faster than the exponentially growing debt it collapses, no exceptions. You try paying off your mortgage with credit-card debt and see how far you get. A fiat debt based currency is not sustainable by definition.
If there is deflation its minimal and it means savers are in effect are getting richer, thats not a bad thing.
MMT/Neo-Chartalists differentiate between pvt. and gov't debt for a good reason.
Pvt. debt is constrained, but gov't debt is limited only by the sovereign monopoly on currency creation. That doesn't mean a gov't can spend without consequence, but if the spending is directed into the practical economy (i.e. goods and services), it only encourages growth.
If the gov't doesn't spend money, there is NO MONEY to spend (according to their tenets).
Also, mortgage payments with a credit card is nowhere near to being analogous with government debt. And even that can be manageable (though stupid, as in that case one could pay the mortgage directly and avoid the interest). It is also not analogous as a house will not produce any value added. It is a fixed asset, which only increases in value due to increases in demand - not real added value.
I love arguing with these little trendy MTV teenie boppers who dont know anything about economics.
thotkrime 6 months ago
This is what USSR did...everyone had a job, then you had to wait in line for hours for basic staples...my Russian friend back in the 80's once said to me "you know, I really like your distribution centers, and my wife like it too much I can't keep her out of there"...he was talking about a store that was like Walmart, something that is impossible to have a government guaranteed jobs program...get the gov out...the jobs will return....you can't mandate jobs and wages....
auctionmusic 6 months ago
@auctionmusic You don't at all understand this if you think it is like Soviet Socialism.
bcolton73 6 months ago
I heard $130 billion for 13 million jobs..... $7.25 x 2000 hours (full-time job) x 13 million people = $188,500,000,000 before benefits, WHAT AM I MISSING? I'm obviously doing something wrong here. Anyone?
debh2012 6 months ago
@debh2012
He's talking about wage bill of the program after savings. All kinds of a social spending go down and tax revenues up.
zefvor 6 months ago
"need increase of purchasing power"? Lol, by more regulation and printing the cash? Idiots
johammbass 7 months ago
@johammbass You clearly don't understand macroeconomics.
bcolton73 6 months ago
Where's the debate!
Cosbibi 7 months ago
This guest have a real deal solution to financial crisis. Specially, the job offer to unemployeed at base rate makes sense. Excellent!!
xoxak888 8 months ago
Why aren't we hearing more suggestions like this within the mainstream? I'm tired of hearing complaints about GOP politics and policies. The doomsday predictions need to be countered with well-reasoned problem solving. More solutions need to be brought to the table. This is certainly a step in the right direction.
LazyGirlSuperHero 8 months ago
THE REAL NEWS: You need to sound the alarm a lot louder. You are the only news organization doing it. Please keep it up.
BubbaLouis 8 months ago
I think having a healthy society of equality requires relinquishment at a certain level of wealth--maybe we could put a ceiling on wealth so that when you work you can only earn to a certain level of wealth --all the rest goes to a common wealth & is redistributed--if you want to keep working you can & receive some other kind of reward,or recognition, for your efforts - or you can spend a lot & go back down below & then begin earning again-or go into non profit or enjoy what you have & retire-
catgumart 8 months ago
MMT Italy!
Cippala2 8 months ago
@Cippala2
iscrivermi al tuo canale e' una delle cose migliori che ho fatto con internet.
SkaffBear 8 months ago
@SkaffBear troppo gentile. Io riporto solo quello che dicono economisti progressisti come Randall Wray e tanti altri. Ciao Andrea
Cippala2 8 months ago
@Cippala2
si ed e' per avermeli fatti conoscere che ti sono grato, oltre che per i bei video che fai tu stesso.
SkaffBear 8 months ago
@Cippala2
Our politicians knows very well where we're going to end up.
It was written and constantly repeated by the journalist Paul Barnard.
As Italian you already know very well that our politicians are all corrupt.
We don’t have any kind of information by our left-gatekeepers because they too are enrolled from big bankers. This way we don’t see any uprising because people are ignoring the problem.
They’re thinking that the only problem is Berlusconi
bye
4iwishyouwerehere 8 months ago
Great job, Mr. Jay - thank you very much!! I look forward to watching the future debate.
People like Prof. Wray should be advising our political leaders in Congress and the White House.
ryanmarkov 8 months ago
-how about factories that people could work at where they make (good quality) computers, learning software, economic electric cars,tools, appliances that can be issued as benefits to those who receive them.So we can hire people who are on welfare, give flexible,reasonable hours to work in places that build goods that can be issued as part of the benefits-- so there is a circular thing going on there-that way low income people can have a job & benefits & contribute to actually making their needs.
catgumart 9 months ago
@catgumart
This idea extends to farming quality organic foods,instruments,art equipment, houses,homes,parks, A thing I'd like to see is cross country biker/hiker highways, for use strictly for bikers/hikers-criss crossing the country so people can travel the country (without cars) for recreation & travel-
Id like to see quality subsidized housing where we hire artists to build structures as works of art dedicated to low income people so low income have people have good environment to live in.
catgumart 9 months ago
Certain things have be taken into account though that are outside of economic-not unrelated but outside of--like I get benefits and SSI--I have depression,anxiety, severe social difficulty, stress issues, difficulty dealing with people-it is more complex thatn I can type into this box--but I really wouldn't want to work too much because--I can't I have these issues& going out and interacting with people is too much for me- what about people kind like me who can't work for whatever reason?
catgumart 9 months ago
@catgumart We send people like you to Congress.
garycauser 7 months ago
Comment removed
catgumart 9 months ago
So basically we pay private bankers interest to create money out of thin air. What a scam.
Antiks72 9 months ago
@Antiks72 No, we don't.
bcolton73 6 months ago
@bcolton73 Yes we do. It's called the Federal Reserve. They give the government money in return for U.S. Treasuries. The U.S. government pays the Fed interest on those T-bills.
Antiks72 5 months ago
@Antiks72 It's just accounting. The Fed is part of the government, the "independent, private" ruse doesn't work on people like me who know how things actually work. You clearly do not understand monetary operations.
bcolton73 5 months ago
@bcolton73 - Since you know so much about this subject, then educate people instead of telling them they don't know blah blah blah. Dick.
Antiks72 5 months ago
@Antiks72 Dear Richard - Use the internet, look up Prof Wray's writing, educate yourself. I did.
bcolton73 5 months ago
Comment removed
Antiks72 5 months ago
@bcolton73 Well, it's good to see he's writing for NEP. You're still a prick. :)
Antiks72 5 months ago
@Antiks72 Your obsession with penis is telling. And I've done much more than read one article. Your consistent mix of poor argument and personal insults makes me feel sad for you. What an angry closeted homosexual you are.
bcolton73 5 months ago
Comment removed
Antiks72 5 months ago
@bcolton73 Yeah, sure you have. You read one economist and think you're an expert. HAHAHAHA.
Antiks72 5 months ago
"There is no limit"
LOL. The limit is when the dollar tanks.
wolfengheist 9 months ago
@wolfengheist he says in the video that it is only a technicality. We can't run out of numbers. We can have inflation.
sparc5 9 months ago
There's plenty of state-controlled economy in North Korea.
schmoukiz 9 months ago
@schmoukiz Not state-controlled, you clearly do not understand.
bcolton73 6 months ago
This guy is clueless. where does the money for the stat block grants come from... ? why does he omit the fact that eliminating employee payroll taxes reduces tax revenue to the government and the employers portion is really the employees portion since its all payroll expense to the employer anyway. Typical academic no nothing.
rayallin 9 months ago
@rayallin You have no idea what you are talking about. The money doesn't "come from" anywhere. Go back and study macroeconomics 101.
bcolton73 6 months ago
Such truth......
Ghalyah3 9 months ago
How about the banks just give the fucking money back! Assholes!
adelsmana 9 months ago 3
Epic the big banks found a way to take out small banks and make billions in tax dollars doing it we really are stupid.
CazyDayz 9 months ago
you guys get a lot of guest from UMKC
VeritasAmantesVocat 9 months ago
This is how he should have answered the question about inflation. "Inflation happens when the growth of money supply exceeds the growth of work/goods produced. In my plan we would be expanding the money supply, but we will also be increasing the amount of work/goods produced."
goochtobyn 9 months ago
Thanks again TRNN.
RedGaribaldi 9 months ago
This mans a genius, he should be in power.
MrAthanz 9 months ago
That payroll tax relief sounds fucking sweet
kroovyandcal 9 months ago
there will be another crisis followed by a false flag and they will false you to take QE X funny money and a biometric id at gun point.
jaba987 9 months ago
Comment removed
Parture 9 months ago
@Parture You are an IDIOT.
cheddyrod 9 months ago
WALL STREET TAX!!!! 1% derivative turnover on quadrillion of derivatives will pay for all state and federal deficits eliminating any needs for austerity.
jaba987 9 months ago
His Payroll tax idea is controversial because it tends to underfund SS, unless the growth in the economy is such that more income is crerated and thus total contributions go up.
Zakdayak 9 months ago
@Zakdayak SS is well funded. If unemployment stays high then SS will be under funded.
cheddyrod 9 months ago
@cheddyrod Actually, "funding" is a non-issue. The US issues its own currency, it can always pay. Real resources are the only limit, not funds.
bcolton73 6 months ago
All tax money is taken with threat of force and like all other violence should be resisted and abolished. If wealth didn't go to the corrupt org called gov, nice folks could cooperate and do much more good.
thinkchip 9 months ago
You would think by the questions Paul Jay asks that he would be a conservative. But I know he's just playing devil's advocate. But if a person had never watched The Real News, they might think Paul Jay asks tough questions to the guests because he disagrees with them. But he asks the tough questions because he's a good journalist. There are no softball questions from him. He even made this man do math in this interview! Paul Jay wouldn't let it go until the guy came up with a precise number! Ha!
burnindownthehouse 9 months ago
I liked what he had to say about rebuilding the infrastructure, which is where the 13 million + jobs will come from, should it happen. Updating and upgrading the bridges, dams, roads, dilapidated homes, etc would help and we can reinvest in urban development instead of allowing poor sections of major cities to just crumble. With an increase to local and state funding they can hire more police to help combat the criminal element in those poor areas and provide safe neighborhoods for new families.
nds87 9 months ago
what an awesome interview, i'm really looking forward to the debate, even though i have a suspicion that i already know who i'll probably agree with ;)
notthere83 9 months ago
If this New "New Deal" were to happen now, you would have hoards of racist, unwashed, flag-waving, tea-partier Limbaughists rioting over Obama making an "executive army."
DeePhlat 9 months ago
@DeePhlat those forces have to be confronted sooner or later anyway. i think better sooner than later. because if progressives don't provide the solution to the crisis, those "limbaughists" will... and we all know what that is going to look like...
notthere83 9 months ago
wise words. It's really what American needs too. I think looking back at what FDR was doing during the Great Depression was that he actually for a while did not have a clue what he was doing- the New Deal was very much trial and error and product of its times- of hectic, wild times.
mikezephyr 9 months ago
you raise the minimum wage, and everything goes up
Cinemaguy2007 9 months ago
buy gold and silver soon you will all be burning your dollars to keep yourself warm
hus987pc 9 months ago
Only the FDR Glass-Steagall principle will separate commercial from speculative banking, thus freeing the nation from obligations to Wall St. and the City of London, and re-establishing a credit system for rebuilding the nation.H.R. 1489, Return to Prudent Banking Act of 2011, is before the House of Representatives, which aims to revive the separation between commercial banking and the securities business, in the manner provided in the Banking Act of 1933, the so called 'Glass-Steagall Act
tepstolog 9 months ago
They are right when they don't really call it a "Great Depression"
In the Great Depression, the people who lost and were jumping off buildings were the bankers and corporate execs themselves
Today, they learned the trick of reversing the roles through the Federal Reserve. The average American doesn't know about the Fed and/or how illegal it is to have it issuing "paper money" instead of "gold & silver" coins instead.
Until people learn there is no diff. between Rep & Dem nothing will change
Iammram 9 months ago
Continued:
When they start talking about solutions and breaking up banks, that isn't the problem and it won't solve anything.
The problems started when politicians started "Regulating" the banks to give out loans for nothing ( Bush started this movement )
And how the investments & personal banks started gambling was even further to Clinton & the removal of the Glass Stegl act.
Again, Politicians + The Fed = The problem
Abolish the Fed then Politicians will be forced to limit themselves
Iammram 9 months ago
danger0usknowledge 9 months ago
They're not fools... they're assholes... Greedy fucking assholes...
mrx0066600 9 months ago
christ 302 views....and this is what CNN should be screaming this every hour. Their still lying to us.
chi8cago 9 months ago 10
RNN, if you want more people to listen, distance yourself from mainstream narrative (jooobs, inflation/deflation, fake employment, workers rights pro and contra, juggling abstract numbers etc.). Be first, find guests who will explore economic/political situation from new angle and according to reality. Stop kicking grandma, she is dead, this narrative is dead. Its quasi-antagonistic to mainstream as long as you use their vocabulary and framework (but with "leftist" whatever that is, perspective)
MarkoKraguljac 9 months ago
This guy sounds like he's for raising the deficit ceiling. He's saying a reduction in government speading will precipitate the next recession? I dont think so.
thotkrime 9 months ago
@thotkrime Obviously he's for raising the debt ceiling, as is any sane person. The "debate" among DC pols over whether to raise it or not is a bunch of BS; everyone knows it will be raised.
When you already have high unemployment and a slow economy, decreasing activity (i.e. reducing spending) absolutely can depress things further. It's not that complicated is it? On the flip side, his ideas of block grants for states and a payroll tax holiday are ways the feds can *spend* that would help.
jstncbllr 9 months ago
@jstncbllr That keynsian shit isn't working any more. If it ever did, why dont we just print a shit load of money and drop it out of helicopters? Its absurd logic, but hey, people are going to believe what they want, so yea you're right.
thotkrime 9 months ago
@thotkrime It worked fine when it was actually tired. What Obama did was not Keynesian. You really don't understand macroeconomics, do you?
bcolton73 6 months ago
@bcolton73 Keynsian economics advocates central planning of an economy which is what is clearly happening. you want to match wits with me? Im well versed in economics and finance, so go suck bernanke's dick.
thotkrime 6 months ago
@thotkrime Very intellectually compelling. I'd gladly match wits with you, but I'll have to find a place to put the spare I'll have when I do. In the mean time, what evidence do you have that this is in any way "central planning/" Do you even know what the term means?
bcolton73 5 months ago
@bcolton73 If you can't take a look at the federal reserve and disern that dictating interest rates is central planning it's pointless to try to have a conversation with you. Crack a book.
thotkrime 5 months ago
@thotkrime Could not find a single source that equates setting the price of money via short-term rates with central planning. Unless you define central planning as anything other than total market control over everything, which is an absolutist position that has no basis in sound economics or reality. Care to cite a single reference to support interest rate setting = central planning? Oh, wait, yes Hayek and Mises. (or perversions thereof). Of course. Discredited loons follow them. Idiot.
bcolton73 5 months ago
@bcolton73 You don't need to find a source if you have a brain. It's called critical thinking skills. Sheep like you can't have an origional thought unless it first comes from some government certified "expert" like keynes. Prices being determined by market forces is what creates the optimal pricing for society, that applies to capital markets. When Bernanke in all his infitite wisdom sets the interest rate he circumvents the market efficiency hypothesis in asset pricing and thus we have...
thotkrime 5 months ago
@thotkrime I assure you my critical thinking skills are intact, and far superior to yours, but thanks for the lecture. Keynes is but a part of understanding macro in the real world, as opposed to Austrian non-sense, which describes not reality but a Monetarist fantasy. The efficient market hypothesis is a fantasy. That said, neither I nor Prof Wray believe that the Fed is effective at increasing aggregate demand, which is what we need to get out of this recession. Read Wray's work on MMT.
bcolton73 5 months ago 2
the boom bust cycle created by enifficent asset pricing. And as far as the austrian school being discredited that's just plain ficticious, free market is wht made America great and communist countries second and thrid rate hell holes. History blows that argument out of the water.
thotkrime 5 months ago
@thotkrime American economic power is and always has been partly a function of various government intervention (protectionism, curbing monopoly, etc.). This is simply a fact. You cannot wish it away. We don't have a "free market" never have had one, and your own Austrian definitions tell you that. The funny thing is, we'd probably agree about the Fed, but that isn't what Wray advocates anyway. Wray and others in MMT describe the banking and monetary systems are they actually are.
bcolton73 5 months ago
Are fucking kidding me! Listen to this keynesian crap."We need the government to create jobs13 million jobs" "we need a new deal" are you fucking kidding me! "whats the bill and how are you going to pay it?" um... "1-2% GDP will pay for it" 130 billion will create 13million jobs and give you free healthcare and double minimum wage! Who's stpuid enough to believe this shit.There own self reporting is 160k-300k to create 1 job! times that by 13 million pretty sure it's not 130billion
usernameted1 9 months ago
@usernameted1 $20.000 annual wage x 13.000.000 = $260.000.000.000,00. Close enough.
Cosbibi 9 months ago
@Cosbibi Wrong on so many levels, but even if you where right you are DOUBLE your own estimations.What about fraud,waste,kickbacks,bureaucratic overhead and just the plain logistical problem of overseeing a project of that proportion?Which this asshat refused to even address when asked point blankly.Name ONE just ONE government program that has ever met it's cost projections?JUST ONE! By there own self reporting every job created has cost anywhere from 160k-300k+ Dude you are in fantasy land!
usernameted1 9 months ago
@usernameted1 Paying it is a non-issue. Learn something about the monetary system in this country before you spout off.
bcolton73 6 months ago
@bcolton73 You guy who advocate a centrally planned economy are so irrational and stuck in circular logic it's like debating with theists.I'm under the impression now that you guys have underlining suicidal tendencies and just project it onto the world with your cult like worship of the state and it's economic benevolence.You completely ignore empirical evidence ; EU,japan,US and "stagflation is impossible".Go to Q.E. 100, the state is finished and we all know it! buying 90% of your own T-bonds!
usernameted1 5 months ago
@usernameted1 Who is advocating a centrally planned economy? I don't ignore any evidence. You enjoy debating straw men, huh? And QE doesn't work, that is not what is being advocated here.
bcolton73 5 months ago
@bcolton73 You are advocating the author of this videos views, who wants to use money involuntarily taken to "stimulate" job growth.So by default you are saying a small number of mostly unelected bureaucrats can predict and plan a almost infinitely complex mechanism as the free market (future and current consumer demand and the most efficient way to predict and meet those demands) is just narcissistic and completely anti empirical.Any state interdiction into the market is central planning
usernameted1 5 months ago
@usernameted1 "Involuntarily taken?" As are all taxes. You don't understand, he isn't talking about spending tax money, because the Federal government doesn't do that. Your point does not at all follow. Your definition of central panning is extraordinarily extremist, and unsupported by any reasonable economist. I suggest you aquatint yourself with MMT, which Prof. Wray is a leading scholar and proponent of. However, your comment indicates you are a free market radical, and won't accept facts.
bcolton73 5 months ago
@bcolton73 If applying the non aggression principal consistently and using reason and evidence as a methodology to form conclusions vs. forming (or being taught ) conclusions first and then using ex post facto reasoning to justify those conclusions, by all means call me a "free market radical".Oh yeah, just throwing around adjectives "extremist" "radical" and so on are poor substitutes for using a logical framework to defend or debate your positions.My suggestion would be Austrian economics.
usernameted1 5 months ago
@usernameted1 yah not like that hasn't been tried before and failed miserably
oh wait it has
oops
filestreet 3 months ago
we need :The Homeowners and Bank Protection Act - by mr. Lyndon Larouche., and then We go for NAWAPA project .....!! Glass-Steagall is of course the first step .... to make all this happen.....
tepstolog 9 months ago
Comment removed
yuri35435 9 months ago
its too bad a guy like this isn't president
1satyagraha1 9 months ago
Only the FDR Glass-Steagall principle will separate commercial from speculative banking, thus freeing the nation from obligations to Wall St. and the City of London, and re-establishing a credit system for rebuilding the nation.
H.R. 1489, Return to Prudent Banking Act of 2011, is before the House of Representatives, which aims to revive the separation between commercial banking and the securities business, in the manner provided in the Banking Act of 1933, the so called 'Glass-Steagall Act
tepstolog 9 months ago
Politicians hypnotize the sheep - all is better, yet the “Books are Cooked.” Spend 20 trillion $ to prop up the elite and too big to fails. Yet, Q1 GDP downgraded. Unemployment up. Real inflation up. State’s financial crisis continues. No prosecutions for fraud committed by the banks. Logic of un-representative politicians: fight more wars & whip the masses with austerity & increased taxes because jobs will be created that way.
iknownothingnow 9 months ago
Minimum wage (with benefits) is STILL NOT a living wage in the US. Maybe it's a livable wage in Mexico, India or China, but NOT in the US.
How are people supposed to live on minimum wage jobs, even with benefits?
I agree that a "New Deal" program is necessary, but NOT at a "Standard of Living" that is unrealistic for people in the US. Providing people with less money than is required to live on, does NOTHING for people that are now unemployed.
Realistic above poverty level wages are required.
yourtreat2 9 months ago
"smart coordinated international collaboration"...
The road to serfdom continues.
jag10 9 months ago
Isn't what he is proposing sociolism
superphi 9 months ago
If you can put money in the hands of the poor for productive work, I'm all for it. Maybe you can give people a leg up into the job market. It would take away the excuses for not working if you are able bodied. There is, of course, no political will for a program like this, so it will never happen.
707hoser 9 months ago
This my friends is what is wrong with Neo Classical and Keynesian economics... This guy has has no issue with "creating" as much money as is needed for his plan.
Yep lets just print up at least $130bn... Modern Monetary Theory gone wild.
jjcale1111 9 months ago
@jjcale1111 What would be your plan for addressing the terrible unemployment problem?
707hoser 9 months ago
@jjcale1111 The bailouts required TRILLIONS of "created" USD. Wray's proposal is a bargain in comparison.
TehBren 9 months ago 8
@TehBren TWENTY trillion. That's insane and these people are still in charge.
Antiks72 9 months ago
@jjcale1111 Yes, while the austrolibertarians just tank the economy into hell by deregulating finance, requiring trillions upon trillions of fake money to avert an all out revolt/military coup as it routinely happens in the third world. That's truly a sound theory.
DonVoghano 9 months ago 2
@DonVoghano Umm you obviously have Austrian economic theory all wrong. The crash occurred because of malinvestment due to artificially low interest rates. Plus big banks know they can count on the government to bail them out. Our country hasn't adhered to anything close to a true free market system since before World War 1. Also Austrian economist want to go back on the gold standard and they are opposed to fiat money.
MzBUZZKILINGTON 9 months ago
@MzBUZZKILINGTON Why would you even respond to that mindless drivel."Yes, while the austrolibertarians just tank the economy into hell by deregulating finance, requiring trillions upon trillions of fake money to avert an all out revolt/military coup as it routinely happens in the third world. That's truly a sound theory " What country in the world has The Austrian school controlling/influencing economic policy?who are these Austrian's that "deregulated" the market.Freakin fantasy land!
usernameted1 9 months ago
@MzBUZZKILINGTON The point is not pretty ideals, the Communists were good at those too, the point is the road that should get us there. For the past 40 years "neoliberal" Friedmanite economists have been the mainstream in all Western institutions and have been sent in droves to third world countries where they have wreaked unprecedented havoc. Just about every policy that they have supported has resulted in disaster for the masses and unseen heaven for rich oligarchies around the globe.
DonVoghano 9 months ago
@DonVoghano Exactly, that lack of ideals, a sort of economic pragmitism and "keynesian" model of economics is what spread to those countries. Let me ask you this. What bank would loan money would loan hundred of millions of dollars to populations of impoverished inner-city projects and then demand replayment on loans several years down the road? Never, right? This is the sort of policy that's called capitalistic enacted by the world bank for decades. You don't know what capitalism is.
MzBUZZKILINGTON 9 months ago
@MzBUZZKILINGTON The first thing a real capitalist should be worrying atm is the end of barriers to entry for people. Goods can travel freely, but people can't: that's by far the BIGGEST market violation at the moment, and one that I don't see the libertarian front taking it too seriously. Fact is this "free market" bullshit clogging the airwaves is just being used as an ideological tool of control.
DonVoghano 9 months ago 3
@DonVoghano I don't know what you mean by barriers to entry of people. And finally I can agree with you about something. Most of the "free market" economic policies being put forth are just policies that take away the power of the consumer and puts more money in the pocket of companies. Our entire regulatory process as far as I know helps out large businesses at the expense of smaller ones and consumers.
MzBUZZKILINGTON 9 months ago
@DonVoghano That's exactly right, and it's been detailed in Naomi Klein's book _The_Shock_Doctrine_
Antiks72 9 months ago
LOL ...and he has no idea how to fund his program!!
jjcale1111 9 months ago
Wow ... 30 minutes and nothing about the Free Market. Its all state led from this guy.
... and before people criticize the free market... that's not what you have now.
jjcale1111 9 months ago
@jjcale1111 meh.
jak1428 9 months ago
@jjcale1111 "The free market will save us!!!" LOL, what a pipe dream.
TehBren 9 months ago
@TehBren The "free market" where you subsidize some of the most profitable sectors, right?
leptonsoup337 9 months ago
@leptonsoup337 Hey, that's how you make them profitable. Is there a single modern industry that would be profitable without public subsidies/bailouts?
TehBren 9 months ago
"Raising minimum wage does not come to much." Huh? His whole point is that all wages will adjust up through the economy. That is a key part of the engine of inflation. The second part of the engine is the Fed increasing money supply such as help to banks, states, jobs programs, etc.. Third and really first part is commodity inflation, ie. cost of food, fuel, medicine... You know, the stuff you can't live without.
drewwebsiter 9 months ago
Expecting employers to pay higher minimum wage means that fewer young workers will not find entry level jobs. Minimum wage is NOT a living wage, it is the wage that is paid for an unskilled worker pays while learning to be skilled. The problem is that many employers treat minimum wage as prevailing wage. This is possible because labor supply exceeds labor demand.
Answer: stop illegal immigration so exploitation of illegals ends.
drewwebsiter 9 months ago
Block grants to the states, payroll tax relief, compensating banks for renegotiating bad mortgages and jobs programs = bigger deficits. We are at the limit of our national credit limit. S & P is about to downgrade US debt which will cause a death spiral because we will need to pay a risk premium on our debt.
drewwebsiter 9 months ago
Print a bunch of money and wait for something to break in the emerging markets. Thats the #1 jobs program, just give it time.
2leet2cheet 9 months ago
Uprated.
slobomotion 9 months ago
/watch?v=EewGMBOB4Gg and /watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
boumar19721972 9 months ago
More hand waving from Paul Jay. Here's a summary. We're NOT going to get change unless their a crisis. But, let's spend 30 minutes talking about how we can fix things. One BIG jerk-off fest going on here!
911truthncDotOrg 9 months ago
The mistake here is that this man seems to think that financial institutions want a stable economy with an employable work force when what they actually want is a high profit, low wage, low employment economy. Capitalism is most profitable when there is a huge pool of unemployed labour as this reduces the costs of production. That's why China and India have grown economically, although the great mass of the workers have no benefit.
colourmegone 9 months ago
@colourmegone, Sorry to disagree. Financial institutions want a strong middle class that can pay loans, credit card fees and other products. Paying low wages is a secondary objective. What they do not want is a middle class that pays off their loans, pays off their high interest credit cards. China & India grew economically because they created a middle class that could consume housing, food, clothing and services produced locally. The lower class has grown so much, they are still poor.
drewwebsiter 9 months ago
@drewwebsiter And this is why the middle class in the US is being systematically looted and destroyed.
colourmegone 9 months ago
I'll look forward to the debate
duezeri1968 9 months ago
It's the the ideas from idiotic wizards like this moron, that has got us all into the mess we are in today. What a twat.
mrFizzboat 9 months ago
Fiat money is a failure. Read your history books.
mikem720 9 months ago
@mikem720
Doesn't show that in the history books I know. Could you explain how they have failed?
eshnajizzle 9 months ago
@eshnajizzle
Just look at the major economies worldwide. Look at inflation over the last few years. Accelerating wildly.
You are reading the wrong history books, obviously ones written by control freak statists who don't want you to understand money.
Ever hear about the fall of Rome and coin shaving? What about the founders of the USA who were extremely adverse to fiat because of the MANY examples of runaway inflation in their times
Read Federalist Papers on "Bills of Credit"
mikem720 9 months ago
@mikem720
@mrFizzboat
Yes, Rome had inflation. Yes, many fiat currencies have led to rampant inflation because they have been poorly administered. No, that doesn't mean they eventually lead to inflation. Neither does inflation mean collapse.
On the flip-side all fixed-value systems of money eventually lead to deflation as it has to be expected (large growth set to the value of a finite resource).
eshnajizzle 9 months ago
@eshnajizzle
Sure, we can dance around what "collapse" means and what it could mean. I take it as obvious that fiat is more prone to CORRUPTION, greed, and class stratification. (The bankers, who change the rules at a whim, being the masters and everyone else being the slaves.) A fiduciary system imparts a value to the "money" which implies something called risk in all cases, to all transactions and all transactors. Debts and losses cannot as easily be socialized.
mikem720 9 months ago
@mikem720
1. Also, I have not advocated a "fixed-value" money system.
2. Deflation is not the anti-Christ either, it has some positive aspects. The utra-powerful (bankers) hate it because it tends to reward savers. The little guy who saves enough doesn't have to be thier slave anymore. This pisses them off.
mikem720 9 months ago
@mikem720
It may be more prone to corruption, but it doesn't need to lead to "corruption, greed and class stratification" - it can be controlled. The risk is there, though. I would argue that losses can be socialized even more easily than they would be in gold-standardized economies, as fiat currencies allow for more tools by which one can control the economy.
eshnajizzle 9 months ago
@eshnajizzle
You say that a fiat money system "can be controlled." What real world evidence can you give of that?
Your international fiat banking masters, along with their puppets in government, in effect print out huge amounts of "money" and give it mostly to themselves and their friends. This trend is accelerating. This doesn't appear to be controllable from any perspective.
History shows the same moral hazzards of fiat money, exploited by the elite, over and over and over.
mikem720 9 months ago
@mikem720 Your absolutly right I would challenge anyone to show me a fiat money system that worked and didnt eventualy collapse. Andrew jackson knew that and that is why he got rid of fiat money paid the national debt and set us up on the gold and silver standard. It was Wilson who gave our currecy back to the big banks and fiat money, who later admitted that he had made a grave mistake in doing so.
lastritesread 9 months ago
@lastritesread The problem is not so much fiat vs non-fiat, the problem is too much power given to certain financial institutions. The fiat system worked like a charm giving the best growth in human history as long as we had smaller competing banks. As those institutions corrupted the govt that was supposed to regulate them and became super-giant their power over society became near absolute.
DonVoghano 9 months ago
@mikem720 The real world evidence is plainly visible in working democracies like Germanic social-democratic/ordoliberal countries in which the state was marginally able to control the explosion in power of their banks. They encountered the same problems we did but managed them much better, just take the countermeasures to financial break-downs in Sweden or more recently Iceland... The only way to make capitalism work is through ordoliberalism, everything else will become oligarchy.
DonVoghano 9 months ago
@eshnajizzle Unlike how Randal explains it, fiat money is not created into existence it is loaned into existence. It has to be paid back with interest. The money to pay the interest back doesn't exist so that has to be loaned into being too. Its a ponzi scheme. All fiat currencies have a finite lifespan before a collapse, and we are approaching the end of the US dollar as we know it.
mrFizzboat 9 months ago
It is in fact irrelevant where the money originates from, as it is mainly about trust. Yes, it is a loan. The way to pay it back with interest is through greater production than yield rate. That's what all loans are based on.
You get people to trust that you will do something with the money to create more value. You pay a fee for that trust (interest) and keep the rest of the surplus production. You have, in essence, created money out of nothing.
Gold enjoys the same trust, nothing more.
eshnajizzle 9 months ago
@eshnajizzle I think you miss the point, when the inevitable occurs and an economy can not grow faster than the exponentially growing debt it collapses, no exceptions. You try paying off your mortgage with credit-card debt and see how far you get. A fiat debt based currency is not sustainable by definition.
If there is deflation its minimal and it means savers are in effect are getting richer, thats not a bad thing.
mrFizzboat 9 months ago
@mrFizzboat That depends on how you define debt.
MMT/Neo-Chartalists differentiate between pvt. and gov't debt for a good reason.
Pvt. debt is constrained, but gov't debt is limited only by the sovereign monopoly on currency creation. That doesn't mean a gov't can spend without consequence, but if the spending is directed into the practical economy (i.e. goods and services), it only encourages growth.
If the gov't doesn't spend money, there is NO MONEY to spend (according to their tenets).
heckler73 9 months ago
@mrFizzboat
Also, mortgage payments with a credit card is nowhere near to being analogous with government debt. And even that can be manageable (though stupid, as in that case one could pay the mortgage directly and avoid the interest). It is also not analogous as a house will not produce any value added. It is a fixed asset, which only increases in value due to increases in demand - not real added value.
eshnajizzle 9 months ago