World Cup GS Stars Free Skiing

[MrAngelo0706]

This is just a warm up skiing before real training, like an easy run before the race..have look the minimum amount of movimente, fluid and look the feet..this people can go anywhere how tey want...

[Error3200]

Thats NOT free skiing

[CrewMiniProductions]

I don't get it. Are they like judged on their turns or is it a race?

[synapse131]

@CrewMiniProductions Racers free skiing but folks here are analyzing their technique.

[jimidee33]

@synapse131 Why not? Some of us are well qualified to do so. I am not impressed. I like to see dynamic movement and tempo changes when watching someone free ski.

[cligety]

ted's offseason training.... watch "Ted Ligety Waterski"

[UberLifeTroll]

This sport is racist. How come there isn't a nigger on there...

[synapse131]

@UberLifeTroll I have known several afro american racers and there are a few who have skied at the WC level. It is true that there aren't enough; it's not the glory sport that most go for in America and internationally, most folks of African decent are in countries where there is no winter. Economic reasons, geographical reasons, and sociological reasons all play a part.

[UberLifeTroll]

@synapse131 You know what's decent? Not your comments moron.

[synapse131]

What about what I said makes me a moron? I think it's great when ANYBODY is involved in skiing; whatever color of their skin. Providing some analysis for why it may be that there are less afro skiers racing makes me a moron? P.S., I misspelled "descent" (as in someone's history or background) and it has nothing with being "decent" in any way. I think you completely misunderstood what I was saying; although the context should have been a dead giveaway. Do you know how to read?

[synapse131]

@UberLifeTroll Your name appears apt.

[skiracerben]

THIS is why Erick Guay is the best super-g skier in the world. He has a very strong technical base in gs

[ironmanboy]

Cuche is a monster!

[Ale7674]

Il miglior video presente su youtube...ehm volevo dire...YOURIDE!

[custom8819]

板が切れまくりで、びっくり。さすが、ワールドカップ級はちがい­ますね。

真似しようと思っても、全然出来ません。当たり前か‼

[bpressnall]

Guay just won his 1st TWO SG's of his career to cinch the overall SG tittle! Between those two races, he pulled off his best DH of the season-third!

[bpressnall]

Imagine all the trash talk we'ld hear if these skiers were not identified as WC racers, especially about the most successful racer of the group, Cuche.

[c4rv3r]

Interesting thought, I seriously doubt that there would be much, though :)

[shadley35]

@bpressnall so f*cking true

[alegzander1971]

i like guay the most... and nyberg.

[faustodossi]

il migliore per me è Nyberg

[cymrubahaus78]

Cuche fuori dai pali e scandalosamente scarso...

[maxxx155]

@cymrubahaus78 mah insomma!!! Non direi SCANDALOSAMENTE SCARSO....in ogni caso, per lui è sciare tra i pali che conta...e mi sembra che lo faccia benino!!! Peace!!

[cymrubahaus78]

@maxxx155 non ho dubbi.ha i difetti tipici del campione che scia il 90% del tempo tra i pali.alza quando cambia,le braccia nuotano e son troppo strette e il busto è statico e non rivolto in avanti curva.tra i pali è forte indubbiamente,anche se per i miei gusti ha una sciata troppo aggressiva che tende a premere esageratamente .peaceout

[Grisha070795]

cool

[skizonetk]

Nice video! Please visit ski-zone(dot)tk , it's a new forum dedicated to snowsports!

[JGMagoo]

Beautiful skiing!!

[HipHopManiaLuCy010]

just love skiing..

[alsza1]

stoeckl forever !

ten od żabki- zjedź tak jakżeś mądry.

[nicolas4895]

lahm *gähn*

[hektorlemans]

ten pirszy to jeszcze chybo w basenie mysli ze jes

a propos, uwielbiam technikow na naszych stokach ktorzy jezdza zabka. czyste barszcze. buraczane

[Andzia11a]

cała 5 bardzo dobra!!! Gratuluję !!

[BENHZSA]

perfect style, and ATOMIC GS . FOREWER :)))))

[srutra3]

ATOMIC 4EVER

[Charles55559]

ATOMIC FOREVER!

[sarsfield06]

Cuche's hands are moving because he is simulating going around gates, he is the only one actually skiing like he'd race

[alegzander1971]

cuche's arms are moving because of rebalancing (recentering) between the turns. he simulates a double pole plant.

[Richiehurtsalot]

dude its hs, no one pole plants in gs, be aware that although these guys ski world cup their techniqies are no perfect. And althought cuche ahs good upper and lower body separation, goo angles and early inclination, the raising the hands is as you said to recenter the hips but it is a vice to let people fall on their inside ski

[ragehotmachinepepper]

i don't like the moves of cuche's arms. in my opinion, guay's technique is the best one because only his legs are moving (completely parallel) while the rest is calm.. perfect!

[skidude777]

Didier Couche has (by far)the best thechnique in this movie.

[bubblewrapmonkey]

how can u tell?

[skidude777]

He moves his knees perfectly. That way he gets more angle on his skis, and he gets more speed out of the turns. But that's just my opinion...

[arrobaluis]

You are not suposed to look for angle on your skis with the knees. The whole lower body does that by flexing the waist.

[hooraynesss]

yes but at the same time you have to work with the ankles and knees and not just dump the hip in at the beginning of the turn.

[arrobaluis]

you are just describing the best way to get yourself injured...

[skybick]

peretto

[armandocardea]

a Robot Perfect

[darkocmarko]

guay looks amazing.agressive and yet so smooth

[Lehmann108]

:30 -:40 textbook carved turns!

[FlexyJars1]

same leki poles theey are awsam

[ladymersault]

Too many racers "A frame"

[c4rv3r]

Sacrificing the freedom of movement your big ball joints give you for the visible "perfectly parallel shins" is the worst thing you can possibly do...

[tomchilcott]

"A framing" in itself is not a technical fault. If you examine world cup ski racers in the gates, you will see that, above the fall line, when their weight is 80% over the outside ski, there is considerable a- framing. The key is to having matched shins as the pressure develops later in the turn, allowing effective arcing. Racing turns are not smooth curves, but are more comma shaped, due to heavy outside ski loading. Check Out Kalle Pallander sequences if you don't believe me...

[led0zeppelin1977]

also, just saying that there is a style that everyone must follow is kind of a farce, its good to learn on, but guys at this level just have it down to such a science. if you dissected bode's style, youd say that the man wouldnt win a single race, hes always in the back seat, hes standing straight up half the time, etc. avoiding a-framing, etc are good to remember when you learn it for the first time, but as you grow, your style changes too, and some of this stuff goes out the window

[congospork1]

@ladymersault racing formation has always been abrupt and graceless

its not whats pretty its what works

[synapse131]

Amazing that Cuche could get away with so much hand motion (wipe on, wipe off!)

[c4rv3r]

As long as it suits him and works for him, I'd not be preocupied... Again, this is an "creative application" masterclass... Might not work for someone lighter and taller for instance...

[synapse131]

Now THIS is perfect carving. I still think Cuche could do with a quieting of the hands; He doesn't need the additional up and down motion. I'd love to know what his coaches say to him (just cause he's FIS WC doesn't mean that he doesn't have things to work on, like every racer.) I disagree with the statement, "in ski racing freeskiing is skiing with out gates." Good racing technique will work in any situation and type of condition, whether there are gates or not.

[skimanjones]

this video is so cool they are really doing a good job doing nice clean carves.

[Thrazer0184]

its the warmup, they dont wont to get hurt...because of that they carve with their aspect on a good technique. Thats not so difficult. To carve like they do in the race, thats difficult...trust me i know what im saying

[Thrazer0184]

yeah they are worldcup starters but to carve like they in the vid is not sooo dificult

[althofen]

I like the one at the start "claping" his hands between the turns ;)

[JohnHomann]

you are full of SH*t mate

[ccclllsport]

To get perfection, you need to be carving at least 6 hours a day. EVen then you still pick up faults, so yeah it is pretty hard to carve like that

[powderguy27]

in ski racing freeskiing is skiing with out gates

[pietz911]

wtf that aint freeskiing

[c4rv3r]

Yes, not in the right sense of the word, of course, but at least you can see some basic racecarving technique while they're skiing free - no gates that is:)

[nonsolosoda]

Nyberg it's the best tecnik

[atomicskichick08]

Both Guay and Grandi's ankles roll so smoothy.. Amazing.

[bradhorn14]

yeah, but i dont like their "pop" in the their upper body...not so noticeable, but there

[Brad02150]

Jan Hudec's the best!!! And he lives in Calgary!!!

[c4rv3r]

His father was a Czech !!! I bet he'll have a medal on the 2010 Olypics...

[Brad02150]

I didn't know that. Of course he'll get a medal! I just hope canada come in the top three.

[empedocle80]

nyberg is one the best GS skier of all times regarding technic, how can you say that is less then others in this clip?

[empedocle80]

I don't like cuche in this sequence, I wonder why a so innatural movement of his arms...

[vanghile]

In this video grandi is the best...the movements of his arms are perfect...and the leg are totally indipendent...i don't like nyberg because the movements of his arms are imperfect...he is incomplete respect the other...

[lusbuaeb]

......he, mit sovielen Skitagen kein problem!! kann ich auch!!

[tccapone]

is this a competitive sport? it looks beautiful, but kinda boring to watch :P

[laurensne]

Grandi is way the best.

Cuche makes not needed hand movements and has less inclination

[atmc11]

Awesome!

[mainesl224]

is there anyway you can put it at normal speed and post it again

[c4rv3r]

Well, hard to say, since the original clips from which this is made are slowmotioned already and I sped this up twice i think... I don§t have the software necessary to speed up/slow down a video by tenths :( Sorry

[alegzander1971]

some of these guys are always facing downhill, they shoulders and upperbody are always perpendicular on slope axis. this helps them apply much pressure on inside ski. others are slightly rotating their upper body and planting the poles a little bit, applying more pressure on the outside ski. which way is better? i am skiing for only three years, and i am still very confused.

[c4rv3r]

Generally you should stay on the outside ski. It can be done regardless of whether you stay perpendicular to the skis or if you do VERY SLIGHT rotary movement... Just stay on the outside ski...

[flatlander1007]

Look at Nyberg. Nice skiing, strong inside ski, no "phantom foot." His center of balance may be on his outside ski, but his inside ski is working hard, too.

[flatlander1007]

At 1:05 his outside ski actually loses contact with the snow while his inside ski initiates. No phantom there.

[alegzander1971]

something more: how important are the up and down movements in the turns? some of the guys keep their upper body more or less at the same level, others are moving up and down in order to push on the edges or release them from pressure.

[c4rv3r]

The up and down movement is also called as "crossover" (Center of mass crosses over the skis) and is more efficient when it comes to recentering/rebalancing between the turns, so it's advisable especially if you're on a steep slope.

[c4rv3r]

The other way is called "crossunder" (skis cross under the center of mass) and is faster, more dynamic and is very difficult when it comes especially to the fore-aft balance, so unless you're a top slalom racer it's rather to be used on shallow/not very steep slope... In time you will also learn how to mix these two up according to steepness of the slope/tightness of the turn and so on...

[led0zeppelin1977]

ive been racing since i was nine, your body shouldnt move, the up and down movement should only result from your feet moving out from underneath you when they edge up. my coaches have always said imagine your legs to be like a pendulum, completely independent from your upper body. once you get to gates, you start to move your body to block the gates, but for practice, start with that. cheers on the video, cuche is a beast

[c4rv3r]

As long as we're racing I can't but agree with you totally. But generally the crossover and crossunder transitions do get recognized - "the up and down movement should only result from your feet moving out from underneath you when they edge up" - this is the perfect mix of crossover and crossunder movement I was trying to describe above - thank you for a more precise description ! Cheers

[led0zeppelin1977]

haha of course, and yeah, when you get on the course, everything becomes personal style. if you study people like bode miller and jens byggmark, this stuff goes out the window. nice suggestions on skiing style, you know your stuff haha

[lukytas44]

Hey man in that thomas grandi vid tht starts at 0:31(the second vid of him) he is doing SL, not GS like it sais in trhe video

[c4rv3r]

You're right, but he is one of the GS stars, too - but of course that section are slalom turns:) Thanks for the comment, well spotted !

[engi1803]

Nice vid. I think someone has to be really fit in order to move hips across inside the arc of the turn like these racers.

[Antifogasta]

Just found this site and as a passionate skiier it's fascinating. However, I just cannot see the phantom move/PT at all. What I see is these guys all loading the uphill ski and then projecting the body down the hill to initiate the turn (as in Tejada Flores', vid "Breakthrough on Skis") Am I missing something? sorry to be so stupid if so!

[olliedebrabant]

No you are not stupid - if you haven't been taught this in these terms you may think about it in a different way but my previous explanation is about as good as i can do in writing - check out harald harb videos. I have been teaching this for many years and that's how we trained to race - I am an ex FIS racer - and for me these films are good examples of this - easier to show you on the hill !

[Ihearditallbefore]

These are all excellent examples of the "phantom move/PT" - very useful slowmos.

Thanks for putting these up. The slalom one of Grandi is alos very good. It is much better to watch these guys train and free ski than race.

[c4rv3r]

True, true, that's exactly the reason why I uploaded this vide... I started to implemet the PT into my technique last season and so far I've been successful - I'm anxious for the snow to begin falling now :D Thank you for your comment!

[olliedebrabant]

You started to implement the PT last season - wow - I have been teaching that (allbeit with another name until about 1998) for 17 years and I teach that from first week skiers on - out of interest when did you first become aware or were taught that principle ?

[c4rv3r]

First I fell in love with fun- and body-carving, but later on I first tried out a GS ski and simply started imitating movements in the video - so more or less out of interest. I found it helpful when in need of changing the edges fast on steep slope - the up-forward impulse movement with hands helped me to stay out of crossunder (not very safe on steep slope) as much as possible and so i discovered the spell of tight turn with as short edge usage as possible on steep slope.

[whichway99]

It is a fundamental movement in racing and any skiing except where you want to rotate your feet (ie bumps). Did you ever watch a Harald Harb vid ?

[c4rv3r]

Unfortunately, not:( I didn't know that it's so fundamental, but it certainly helped me...

[Ihearditallbefore]

If you didn't get it from a Harald harb vid then where did you get the term "phantom move or phantom turn"..I thought he coined that.

have you got any film of you skiing ?

[c4rv3r]

Well, I have found out that the movement is called "phantom move" only at the point of your first comment... But I believe that what "phantonm move" refers to can be easily spotted on the official site of Fritz Strobl on the photo sequence from Chile 2003... Check it out and let me know If I am not mistaken...

[olliedebrabant]

I see the photo - a still photo doesn't show what we mean. I will try and summarise it in writing. The PT is the lifting and actively placing the NEW INSIDE ski onto it's uphill edge (tip first) momantearily before you do anything with the new outsode ski. IE initiate the new left turn by lifting, tipping and placing on the snow the left ski before you do anything with the right (what will be the new outside ski) - it happens very fast so it's hard to spot unless in slomow

[olliedebrabant]

If you watch Kjetil Aamodt in slowmo racing SL it's more obvious. In fact Harb used to use KAA as a benchmark for this point. At speed sometimes the new outside ski takes effect before the new inside ski but he is focussing on/thinking about the new inside ski to initiate every turn, this way the inside ski is never a blockage, it's never in the way and the skier automatically "falls" onto the new set of edges..does that make sense ?

[c4rv3r]

Perfectly now, I was totally out/confused :D Thanks a lot for the explanation... I was thinking thet it is this kind of move after you do the edging move with the outside ski... Thanks for the explanation very much !!!

[olliedebrabant]

I am glad it helps - it's very hard to explain in writing - that is why every ski school manual contains some very funny phrases.

Think..to turn left...lift left heel, tip onto left edge of new left tip and you will "fall" laterally onto your new edges smoothly.

[olliedebrabant]

....in short raduis turns don't forget at the start of the turn you need to pressure the new inside ski tip MORE than the outside ski or else it will not turn as far and as quickly as the outside and the result is a "V"...or worse the skis cross...that goes against what many people think but it is logical and physics...and more important..it is a fact and works !

[c4rv3r]

I am not hundred percent sure, but I'd refer to this as to a bit "forcing" the inside ski to the compound => not sure if we mean the same, but I'd call it like this on the basis of the feeling that I get when I perform this movement somewhat correctly...

[c4rv3r]

I've found a movie of me skiing - but it's two seasons old.... From the last season I couldn't finda any... But it might be interesting to watch as well... Some turns are somewhat nice... It's called "Carving on GS skis"

[Ihearditallbefore]

We just saw that. very good - just be careful to not get your torso too far inside the turn (towards the hill) the skis break apart once or twice but that is good skiing no doubt.

[Ihearditallbefore]

continued ... On hard snow we still need majority of the pressure against the outside ski and sometimes I see your inside ski turn more than the outside and that often means there is too much pressure on the inside ski compared to the outside. You still need pressure on both but focus on getting the right balance between the two. Good job !

[Ihearditallbefore]

On third look it is obvious - you just need to create more lateral angulation from the pelvis to make you balance more against the outside ski - the line from your feet thru yr pelvis thru yr torso is too straight..a very slight correction and it's perfect. I appreciate you are also skiing long skis and maybe they aren't tuned aswell as mine !

[c4rv3r]

Yep, I noticed that, too - what I was trying to do was to create an inclination with (so far) unloaded both skis and then to create as much pressure as possible on the outside ski by "breaking in the hip" right at/slightly before the fall line...

[c4rv3r]

continued... I was trying to maintain some pressure (sometimes too much) on the inside ski because it was the way I adopted first - the funcarving - of course requires the majority of the weight on the inside ski and a bit of "leaning" into the turn, too...

[c4rv3r]

When it comes to the skis - these were sharpened at 87 degrees... They had pretty much of a grip, so it was not because of skis :D But because I was not that skilled back at the time... Thank you very much for your comments, of course:)

[synapse131]

Harald Harb was the guy who told me, "You're going to be a Star" when I skied up to the group during DH course inspection one time. Well before I perfected my technique. Blown out knees don't help one get to starhood unfortunately. Former glories! Long, long ago.

[Ihearditallbefore]

Good. Pleasure. I work with Olivier - we have a ski school in France and Italy. We have always taught that principle - not many do - but although I say so myself our pupils progress much much faster than those with other schools simply because of this one fundamental point. Don't tell too many though - it's our advantage ! ! Good luck.

[poobearpanda345]

omg those guys suck ass!

[sqirlkilla]

ha, the slow motion makes it look really un impressive. those guys are good though