Ummmm.......there are mutual funds that invest in REITS. REIT's are no more complex than any stock. Any Joe Shmoe can buy a mutual fund that invests in REITs just as simply as one that invests in the stocks of companies. Who's missed the point?
I think this video poster and many here are missing the point. This occurs when things are taken out of context and one statement is focused on without taking into account the entire message. Dave notes the wealthy get there through simple investment vehicles. A REIT is not a simple investment vehicle that any Joe Shmoe can obtain and utilize easily. This is why Mutual Funds which are a common investment vehicle is the vehicle he promotes. He is trying to help the masses, not the experts.
Dave Ramsey is selling his stuff. He does not care about you.
How can you trust anyone in the MEDIA? Anyone?
They hope you are in misery. They remind me of the doctors in this country, who need you to be sick all the time. They pump you up with medications and NEVER want you to be healthy.
Dave Ramsey is another blowhard on the radio. Ignore him. You are better off meeting with someone who is not going to sell you another program but, work with you one on one.
This guy is a drag to listen to. I think he misses the whole point. To get the average beat down blue collard worker a little hope and MOTIVATION to get themselves out of debt. Dave has most definitely got a lot of people out of debt. Right or wrong. Just by the way Dave says it and the simple way he breaks it down. I guarantee Dave has pulled far more people out of debt and dollar for dollar saved a lot more people money Than you have. Because your unbearable to listen to.
How can you have the audacity to post this without even listening to what this guy said. He didn't argue to the contrary of what you wrote. You read the title of his video and already decided to write this incoherent mess before you even watched it and realized he complimented Dave Ramsey but pointed out a piece of incorrect advice Ramsey gave during a radio show.
I didn't click past the first page, I noticed this video was posted 11/07...............Dave talks about long term growth funds. LONG TERM GROWTH meaning 20. 30, 40, plus years. Bond funds?!?!?!?! (variety of different bond funds, beginning at 5:05 on the video). Now I know this video is over 3 years old, but Sir.............please, show me a bond fund with at least a 20 year positive track record over 8%.
@robstang66 The point is to get the best return for the risk taken. Including bonds helps dampen the volatility of a portfolio allowing many people enough peace of mind to stay in the market when the market is hurting. That is a good thing.
@robstang66 The point is to get the best return for the risk taken. Including bonds helps dampen the volatility of a portfolio allowing many people enough peace of mind to stay in the market when the market is hurting. That is a good thing.
@robstang66 REITs long term returns still beat those of “good growth stock mutual funds.” A recent study done by Francis and Ibbotson that compared the 30 year returns on stocks and REITs ( from 1978 to 2008) found that stocks (S&P 500) had an average annual return of 10.84% while equity REITs averaged 11.94%. :
Are you just mad that he's making it big and no one even knows who you are? Cause it seems like everyone who has posted here has caught all of your misconceptions... its easy to say that you have heard all these things from his talk show and you really have no proof. So, sorry homie. Looks like he beat you again.
Dave does a great job motivating and teaching those in heavy debt and financial straits good basic financial priciples so that they can get to the point where they have money to start investing! He is pitching his opinion! Thats why people call him! Obviously, anyone with half a brain seeks wise council (plural) not just one wise councillor! You might have done better to position yourself as complimentary instead of opposition! He always admits to how conservative he is in investing.
@bthomd Did you listen to the opening of the video where I referred to Dave's advice on cash flow management as "brilliant?" Seems that was a fairly complimentary statement. Reading the comments to this video are very interesting to me. It seems a lot of folks have such a blind alliance to Dave that they are unable to admit he got his facts wrong in this one area. That doesn't make him wrong in everything, as many seem to suggest I am saying.
@bthomd Did you listen to the opening of the video where I referred to Dave's advice on cash flow management as "brilliant?" Seems that was a fairly complimentary statement. Reading the comments to this video are very interesting to me. It seems a lot of folks have such a blind alliance to Dave that they are unable to admit he got his facts wrong in this one area. That doesn't make him wrong in everything, as many seem to suggest I am saying.
Ramsey generally claims that good growth mutual funds average 12% in the long term. I don't think he has ever stated that they "easily return 12% to 15% a year" as you claim. You are exaggerating at best, and your rant here is probably based solely on your pathetic envy of his success.
twisting the facts to appear true in your light. Facts are FACTS your numbers are based on specific terms that are not typical and intrigue a risky venture.
You my friend must be a broker. Commisions drive your opinion. Dave does't get commision. The red tie and loose fit jacket gives you away. The clothing may as well be the hair from the back of the wolf.... SHEEP... BEWARE!!!!
You my friend must be a broker. Commisions drive your opinion. Dave does't get commision. The red tie and loose fit jacket gives you away. The clothing may as well be the hair from the back of the wolf.... SHEEP... BEWARE!!!!
While I too am a tremendous fan of Dave Ramsey, having coordinated Dave's FPU courses for nearly two years, I have similar issues. Any and all investment sectors are cyclical and vary in performance over time. Value funds tend to perform inversely to growth funds, except when they're both doing well. The bottom line: Diversify - everyone of ANY age or objectives must properly allocate and balance one's portfolio. Also, Dave is absolutely clueless regarding life insurance.
Dave's a dope. He called Peter Schiff a "nut job." Plus he's an arrogant ass. Totally wrong on tithing, gold and the crash of '08. His debt advice is mostly common sense. Some of it is unwise though. Unfortunately he's an idol for most sheeple out there. What a joke.
You trash on Dave for being too specific in investments--then go on to tout REITS. hmm...
Lets look at the big picture:
--get out of debt (completely)
--build an emergency fund
--invest with your own money
Once you are investing your own money I'm not sure it really matters much what you invest in. However, I would recommend buying investments that share your philosophy--i.e. don't buy an investment that is engaging in debt leverage. (A lot of REITS probably fell into that category.)
Dave Ramsey's advice always tends to skew toward benefiting his organization and his "endorsed local providers." Ever wonder why he recommends mutual funds, but not index funds? Mutual funds have higher commissions because they're actively managed, meaning more money for the ELPs, more money for Dave Ramsey, and less money for you.
You can start a Roth IRA on your own through a number of discount brokers, but you'll never heard that from Dave Ramsey.
The thing is Ramsey has to answer callers right there. He can't say hold on let me go research it. If this was an article Ramsey wrote where there is time to fact check, that's one thing but on the spot radio talk shows are another.
As always get your info from many sources, just don't say Dave where do I put my money then take that advise blindly.
Ditto bc1969214, on every issue we are all responsible for researching what others say and write about and get different view points. Then a person should realize which way to go. Just taking the advice of one person is a bad idea.
I agree about having to think quickly. But to not know something as important as this and just spout of information that is incorrect is being not responsible to his job. It's not like this is some minor mistake. This is data that's been available for a LONG period of time (years+). If it was something that had changed in the last month then I would give more credence to your argument.
@sasquatchexpress I hear what you're saying but it would be worthwhile knowing if Ramsey answered on a live program or pre-recorded. If live, I don't picture any of these gurus saying "I'm not sure, I need to research that and I'll have a staff member get back with you" even when they should say that. Even info that's been out there for years doesn't come to mind instantly. Some of these gurus try to be jack of all trades instead of wisely sticking to specific areas.
You can always pick a period - 10 years, 8 years, 15 years, etc. - to make your point. Plus, with the fallout of REITs with the crash of late 2008, his point is moot as well. Nice try, but no dice.
Well, 3,5, and 10 year periods are pretty much the standard in the investment management profession for comparisons. Dave was using a 10 year period to "make his point." My whole point (which seems to be lost on most who blindly follow Dave) is that he was wrong. Is Dave right on most issues? Yes. However, and like most of us from time to time, on this point he didn't do his homework.
OK, so by your standards 3, 5, and 10 year periods are not historical. That's fine....what then is HISTORICAL to you? 15 years, 25 years, 70 years? Take your pick and then tell me what the return was from "good growth mutual funds" over the term that you select? Compare that with the REIT returns. It's possible either could be the better performer. What we know is that over the past 10 years "good growth mutual" funds had a total return of -2.5% and REITS a positive return of 8%.
The stock market is one of the biggest scams out there. 1 there's always inside info being traded. 2 it's like gambling you take your chances. 401 k sucks if you take money out earlier it's taxed 2x IRAs taxed and pentlie 10%.. if people want to invest in something ...Gold silver or platinum
You're wrong there buddy. Dave NEVER said growth stock mutual funds earn 10-12% PER YEAR! It's 10-12% over the life of the stock market's history. Get your facts correct..
djswizz is right..maybe if you read his work and not just listen to him on the radio a few minutes you wouldnt sound like such an idiot..Dave has helped so many people invest correctly and get their life on track its not even funny
@djswizz No he's not. Even after the last insane decade, Dave STILL throws out the generic 12% figure when referring to growth MFs. I've coordinated Dave's FPU for over 2 years. I'm as big a fan of Dave's as walks the planet anywhere. I'm also a published leading authority in areas of personal financial management; and I recognize that in many areas, particularly insurance and investments, Dave's advice is extremely weak.
@djswizz I'm sure someone has pointed this out in the last year, but this is wrong: Dave's website says this: "When Dave says you can expect to make 12% on your investments, he’s using a real number that’s based on the historical average annual return of the S&P 500."
Unfortunately, Dave is wrong on that... the annualized return of the S&P 500 is 9.89%, not 12% as Dave claims. And once you account for inflation, it's 6.7%.
Dave is brillant on cash flow and real estate issues, no doubt about that. But he didn't check his facts on this issue or his assertion you can sustaing your retirement nestegg and still withdraw 8%. That doesn't work, either.
The only flaw I see in this video is the time in which your money is in the funds... Dave isnt using a 10 or 5 year period. Hes using a 25-30 year run with money. Saying that the longer the money is in, the more stable and closer to his numbers are. 1 he claims, for a 70 year track record has averaged 13 something percent per year.
But I could be wrong. Im not at that step in the program yet anyways lol. Im still on baby step 1 :)
Every investor could be beat up during 2008. How the hell are you supposed to make a good call while government is creating unpredictable regulation?
My mutual fund just went up 20% during the first quarter of 2009...Granted, it's got nothing to do with Dave Ramsey, but, dude here could easily have chosen a different time frame to make a completely different point.
Wow you are freaking brilliant, you are using the worst stock fund year since the great depression.
Most Reit funds got CRUSHED over the periods you mention. I could look all day at morningstar and find a stock fund to dwarf your Vanguard Reit fund's return??
Use the 70 year average and let me know your findings. That's where you will get the 12 % average return (possibly barring this past year)
Try putting a 12% growth rate and an 8% withdrawal rate into a Monte Carlo simulation and the result will come out 0. But I wouldn't expect the other commenters to understand what I'm talking about.......
Sir - I completely agree. The people bashing you here aren't investment professionals so don't really know what you're talking about. As a fellow-fee-only financial planner, I cringe every time Dave gives his "canned" investment advice to EVERYONE who asks. Granted he does say to use one of his ELPs but I agree that he is a great salesman/marketer rather than investment professional.
Dave has advocated portfolio diversity since the beginning concerning investments. From my understanding, he's advocated mutual funds because they have been around and produced for a long time, no matter what the economy is doing. I could be wrong, but it's kind of a toroise vs. hare thing.
@cornfednebraskaneer Dave's as quick to toss around terms like diversification as much as anyone; but the truth is that he doesn't advocate it. I have never heard him recommend anything but growth MFs, regardless of age or objectives. And forget about personal risk tolerance altogether; as far as Dave is concerned, you do what you're told whether or not it allows you to sleep at night.
I'd like to slap Dave Ramsey in the face with an open palm repeatedly for calling Peter Schiff an idiot. Schiff has been correctly predicting trends for years, and this a-hole has the nerve to shit talk him for saying we would have a crash in 08. Ramsey is NOT a financial guru. He clearly doesn't even understand basic economics.
Do some of you just comment without listening to this video? The point was not to push REITs or any other asset class. The point was to highlight the lack of due dilligence that Dave gave to his statement....which was just plain wrong! Yes, indeed, REITS have tanked shince then....so have those "good growth mutual funds" along with every other asset class. It's too bad you didn't have a diversified portfolio with 5 or more asset classes represented, if you had, your ass wouldn't be as sore.
Just another broker trying to get you to invest in a bogus deal. REIT funds a.k.a Real Estate Investment Trust funds were TANKING when this guy made this video. This video was made right as the real estate industry was getting the shit kicked out of them and then it fell dead. I KNOW because I was invested heavily in them.
@DmFischer5 You missed it completely. RC55 wasn't advocating any type of investment. He was pointing out that Dave makes assertions without either the knowledge or due diligence to back them up; then defends them quite arrogantly, even in the face of true experts, which Dave is definitely not.
Thank you for pointing this out. Ive been listening to his show for a couple of years now. What you are saying is HUGE! You know , there is alot of misinformation out there, and right now in the media, it seams like the threads have come loose. Im glad I took his advice with a grain of salt, with regards to investments. However, my cash flow has never been better since I ve been paying off my debt. Well done Sir.
Great video, The truth always hurts. I agree with nearly everything your saying except for your recommendations to buy mutual funds. They're all crap. Buy stock.
Maybe you should actually listen for longer than 11 minutes... break the chains off your stock broker brain.. and go to a Financial Peace University. I smell Conflict of interest here...
@trinastigger Boy, did YOU miss it! RC55 has so much positive to say about Dave Ramsey, but realizes that Dave's financial expertise ends at debt management and real estate. He is correct. I've coordinated FPU for over 2 years. I'm a fan; but so many of his mantras are generalizations that are "okay" for most, but absolutely wrong for some. Dave's investment advice is generic, simplistic, and often unrealistic. His life insurance advice can be assumed to be incorrect almost 100% of the time.
You all need to listen to Dave, he never never tell anyone to invest all of your money in one basket. also you need to listen to Dave he gives advice on what might be a good place to invest your money, its your decision so everyone who is critical of Dave, shut up!!!!, take responsibility and invest your money the way you want to don't blame Dave for what happens to your money, because you invested it
Are you sure you left comments regarding the right video?
I don't comment on any fund names in this video. Neither am I a broker or do I sell any products. Maybe you should listen to the video first before posting next time?
You did't mention the Vanguard Rate Index fund? In Daves course he mentions that there are funds that our perform others but you just kindly didn't mention that did you? He also teaches to learn and investigate before purchase. Looks to me that you are just trying to sell your own service as a fee based planner and your own books. Maybe you should do a little more research and attend one of Daves courses then form an opinion. I'm a advisor and I Don't always agree with him but I don't bash him.
It is amazing that the author is using fund names and being very general according to Dave. Why don't you sell your stuff a little more. I have been through Daves Fianancial peace University course and Your comparison is twistedly informative. You are twisting Daves Information. Why don't you have the guts to take Dave on Directly rather than sell your own stuff. Typical agent way of responding. If you would actually do what you say you do and listen to a whole course, you might see the truth.
Dave Ramsey changed my life with his unwise, unlearned, off-the-cuff advice. I'm sitting pretty now with the dollar and the economy crumbling. Mr. Kahler, I only hope your clients sleep as soundly as I do every night. Have a good cyclical downturn.
@kennethpace2 Kenneth, Dave's advice is often "unwise, unlearned, [and] off-the-cuff." I've been coordinating FPU for over 2 years and am head of the nation's largest nonprofit financial planning organization. I know Dave's philosophy well, and it rates a solid C- from a technical standpoint. I teach FPU because it motivates people to take control of their finances, and gives them hope; but the truth is that anyone with even a mediocre financial advisor will do better.
I'm pissed at all Financial 'Gurus' right now. They are all experts 'after the fact'. These same Bozos that told us to go without New cars and take less vacations while you stuff your IRA account----are now all going to write books about the CRASsssssSSSh and why it happened-----TOO DAMN FUNNY. Ramsey's DNA was dipped in real estate. He considers himself the Grand Pubah of real estate.
He has a Master's Degree in Common Sense. But people lost billions listening to him.
Ramsey recently had a desperate woman with 10 kids call in. She didnt have 2 nuickles to rub together..People called in after hearing her plight. They wanted to donate and help her---immediately.
He said No. We dont do that here. She must go to her church----blah blah. A 61 year old widow called with $500K in an IRA, a paid off home, and nice income. She called in for advice----she wanted a New car. Never had one her whole life. He said NO. Get a nice used one.
1.) Desperate woman was NOT a verified charity case... in other words, the people making donations did NOT have a guarantee that their funds were actually going to help the woman's supposed situation. Listen to the WHOLE episode - he explains why they don't take donations for callers.
People all over the country watched their home appreciation obliterate before their eyes. Decades of saving in their IRA----gone in a flash. Millions preparing to retire-----will now work until the day they drop dead. The men leading the sheep to slaughter do not need blind defending. Ramsey---and the rest of the 'experts' have no shame. To have not had Clue One about what was coming----and call yourself an expert, bragging quite regularly---is indefensible.
85% of all actively managed mutual funds underperform the S&P 500 according to Morningstar. I started using ETF's due to the pitiful performance of the idiot money managers who basically wiped out people's savings and retirements. Fortunately last year I was shorting or holding cash while the stock market when into free fall. When you look at the fee's, taxes and again performance of mutual funds, it just doesn't make sense to be in them... my honest opinion. Sorry Dave.
Also, this gentleman is incorrect in stating that value funds have significantly outperformed growth funds. The difference over 40 years is actually only a mere 0.11% in favor of value funds. This makes both types of funds about equal. Thus, on this point, both this gentleman and Dave Ramsey are wrong. Nevertheless, this man has made a serious blunder in saying that growth funds weren't even earning 3% on average.
@IHateUserNames86 The important issue here is diversification and allocation, something Ramsey pays lip service, but doesn't really advocate. Growth funds and income funds have provided similar returns over time, but are inversely cyclical in nature. Their returns tends to move somewhat inversely, except when they're both doing well. It's probably a good idea to have roughly an equal mix of both and regularly rebalance.
Ok, so I went online to Morningstar and looked up those stats he referred to. Clearly this guy has never studied a course in even the most basic statistical concepts. The best growth stock mutual funds have in fact returned 12-15% per year when you take into consideration the fact that they have totally tanked over the last 12 months and this has skewed the data seriously. However, if you take the average over ten years prior to
"So how much money does this guy have? Why isn't he as famous as Dave if he knows whats going on?"
____________
Because "dumbed-down" can generally outsell nuance. Seriously, listen to how boring this guy is... he dares to bring in actual facts, to cite authorities (like Morningstar)-- and he just isn't all that entertaining. Meanwhile Dave R. hoots and hollers like Jackie Gleason, calls people "idiots", and is generally entertaining.
So how much money does this guy have? Why isn't he as famous as Dave if he knows whats going on? Because I strictly follow Dave. I now, as a young woman, making $8 an hour, who got married this year and moved into my first home, cut up my credit cards, have my emergency fund, and have paid off 2 of the 3 credit cards. This guy may be about hording your money, but Dave teaches you how to get money to horde and freely admits there are other awesome people out there to learn from.
As of 12/5/08 the REIT by Vanguard he is talking about is down 47.02% YTD. It is down 1.16% over the last 5 years while a Vanguard Mutual Fund, VGSTX, is up 1.16% over the past 5 years and has had a generous 8.95% return since inception. That is why day is a millionaire because he is more conservative and he makes well calculated risks.
This guy is probably hurting as of late. Time for the finanical planner bubble to burst. "dave didn't check the facts", yet he's a multi millionaire. He ends with promoting himself. Buy this, buy this....from me. Dave encourages investing yourself so this guy dosnt take all your profit. This guy is just trying to profit off dave. He is trying to tap into daves loyal listeners who are going to have a lot of extra cash due to Daves advice, not this schmuk.
Dude, what video were you watching!! Not mine. I don't end any video promoting a product or ask anyon to buy anything from me....because I don't sell products. I only sell my advice. You must be watching a commission planner and confusing him with me, do you think?
@joeybuttifucco Dave isn't a millionaire because of his financial expertise, but because he's second-to-none at self-promotion. Look at Suze Orman. While Dave is often wrong, Suze is absolutely clueless. "This guy," while quite possibly promoting himself, isn't selling a thing; and he's actually not being overly critical of Dave, just pointing out that Dave often makes strong generalized statements that lack credibility.
The only people who critize dave are financial planners. I'm sure this guy has a special interest in his own commission. Sure, his ideas "might" return a little more, but then he gets his cut. Debt is the main enemy here. This guy has too much time for making a video. Markets are bad, he must be bored while dave is on the radio 3 hrs a day helping and making money himself.
@joeybuttifucco "The only people who criticize dave are financial planners.
Precisely! And it has absolutely nothing to do with self-interest. I am head of the nation's largest nonprofit financial planning organization (over 3,000 planners, CPAs, attorneys, etc.), and one of Dave's biggest fans. I've coordinated Dave's FPU courses for nearly two years. As much as I endorse what Dave does well, I am extremely critical of him in many ways. His financial expertise is average AT BEST.
Thanks for helping me make my point. Dave is brilliant in helping people get out of personal debt, real estate, and bankruptcy issues. He has a lot of common sense. He is not, however, an investment specialist and he would do himself a favor to either get some education in that area or consult with someone that does.
and the only reason you think he should do all that is because you have a dog in the race!! You have your own personal agenda of saying youre right and hes wrong. Now if you want to know someone that is TERRIBLE at financial advice, you need to drill Jim Cramer. He gives bad bad advice daily and yet you dog on Dave and you make it sound really good that you LISTEN to him and all and give him one minute of good comments while spending the next 5 minutes calling him everything but a Christian.
You are talking about a man (Dave)that deals in a whole multitude of issues from investing to bankruptcy to business management as well as finacial legal issues. His specialty is getting ppl out of debt,
Dave doesn't know investing well. Rapidcity is right, as much as it pains some of you. Dave does have to keep it simple, because most people that are in debt don't know money and investing well either or they wouldn't be in debt in the first place.
Hey, I like Dave! He's very knowledgeable and I'm not disputing that, but he doesn't know everything about investing because it's not his specialty. Would you rather a Neurosurgeon or your GP do your brain surgery? I'm not attacking Dave. I listen to him often and he gives his target audience some great advice. He has enriched many people's lives with his no nonsense strategy. Also, I am no one's secretary.
Thank you for your prayers! You will be thrilled to know they worked, retroactively!! I've listened to Dave almost everyday for several years on my drive home each evening. I've read his books. And, I actually did contact Dave about his mistake. I guess your prayers are three for three!!! Maybe now that your prayers have worked for me, you should start praying for Dave, because he blew me off. So, several weeks later I wrote my column and talked to my camera.
I am praying for you. Dave is a wonderful man who has helped millions of people! Maybe you should listen to Ramsey for more than 11 minutes, read one of his books or go through his 13 week course. Why didn't you spend your time calling his radio show to rebuke him directly instead of talking to a camera? God Bless you!
@scintally "I'm praying for you" Doesn't that make you feel good saying that. "I, who am so radiant and holy, am posing my will on my g-d to make you a better person because that's how gracious and good I am." Like, why are you praying for him? Because he made a factual claim about a profession that he is clearly invested in? What a sinner he must be, to call out one of g-d's heavenly messengers on a simple statement that goes against the data. Yeah! He's going to burn in hell, unless you pray!
What gets me is his position on gold. He claims that gold has never been a good investment, hasn't kept up with inflation and has only returned 4.2% over the last 75 years (not a fair period of time). The U.S. was on a gold standard the first 38 years of the 75 he uses. It's obvious that you won't get more dollars by holding gold during a gold standard! If you start in August 1971 (U.S. came off the gold standard), inflation is over 1700%, the Dow is up only 1200%, and gold is up nearly 2000%.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
In my opinion, Dave Ramsey is nothing more that a celebrity / radio personailty that the uneducated morons have to listen to because their to lazy to learn how to play the financial game.
Lazy?? Morons?? uneducated?? I think you dont understand the financial game. If you actually listened and did what Dave advises, youd understand, I have done what he advises and I bet money that my finances look a heck of a lot better than yours!! We are in the middle of a recession and credit crunch and while youre hoping and praying that the bank will still give you that loan on that shiny new car, Im paying cash. Who cares if your interest rate is 5 pct? Mine is 0 pct. Now, whos the moron
Thanks for the facts! Ignore the stupid idiotic comments that uneducated jabronies make. You're to be commended for taking the time out of your schedule to inform people of financial truths. Listen people, if what you thought to be true about Ramsey's statements wasn't true, WHEN would you want to know it. DAVE ia a good marketer and sells a lot of books. DUH!
@alal12345678910 As head of the nation's largest nonprofit financial planning organization, and having coordinated Dave's FPU courses for two years, I can assure you that Dave is most certainly NOT better than RapidCity, or any average financial planner. His expertise is debt management and personal motivation. For these, he rates an A+, for financial planning knowledge and expertise, C- on a steep curve.
The whole point of my remarks were to simply address his misstatement that REITS never produce good returns and that good growth mutual funds always do 12 to 15% over a 10 year period. That is simply not true, and in fact, just the opposite was true at the time he made these statements. A man of Dave's stature who commands blind trust from many of his followers needs to check his facts. Another big error Dave makes is suggesting that an 8% withdrawal rate is achievable. More on that later.
The title of this video is a bit melodramatic and perhaps inappropriate, even the speaker acknowledges and promotes diversity over a unilateral approach, which is really not as far removed from what Ramsey teaches, and growth funds have a long term track record that is hard to match. I honestly believe, after doing some of my own research, that this is the hare calling the turtle a slow poke--It really just depends on what level of volatility each person is comfortable with.
Thanks for taking the time to simply check the facts. That was what I was suggesting Dave needed to do from the beginning.
At some point in the future, REITS will be in the tank and growth funds will be doing great. My whole point was that Dave didn't check his facts before proclaiming REITS a terrible investment and growth funds the superior over the previous 10 years. Now, REITS aren't better than growth funds or visa versa. A diversified portolio has both and more.
rapidcity55, great that your video gets views. I just looked at the REIT that you talk about. The Vanguard REIT, and for this year 2008, the (YTD) year to date has a return of positive. And that's nearly 3 and a quarter percent! Return is through 8/12/'08.
In comparison, "good growth stock mutual funds" are in the toilet! The good, stable, valuable, "correct" information.
Geez, I see the battle still rages on. Dave fans - please understand he has to keep it simple. He starts with the completely clueless and does terriffic work at very low cost per person. Steps 1-3, which is really the meat of the course is outstanding and everyone should do it. The fact remains, all growth stock funds all the time is absolutely inappropriate for virtually everyone. And ignoring REITS is to ignore decades of history. Rick's investment advice is vastly better. Sorry.
No, Rick is saying REITS are an excellent component of an overall portfolio allocation. Dave says they aren't. Decades of data shows Dave is clearly incorrect. REITS provide stocklike returns that are not very correlated to stock markets, which smooths out short term performance (like now...) and helps overall return. What's not to like? Dave has to keep it simple. He's great on steps 1-3, but don't listen to his investing advice.
@gampublic Right on the money! And don't listen to his advice on life insurance either. The man is a genius at debt and cash flow management, and motivating people to turn their lives around, and for that he is to be commended; but in terms of financial planning (investing and risk management), he rates average at best.
I applaud Dave's main message of getting out of debt. The simple fact is Dave is more charismatic than you and more people are going to listen to him.
@ruks79 Absolutely; and for that he should be applauded. But when it comes down to brass tacks, people need sound investment and risk management advice; and Dave's simply not qualified to give it.
No, I don't sell anything. I am a fee-only financial planner meanining I am fee-for-service. And, my comments weren't on the appropriateness of either investment class, simply to call attention to Dave's factual erorrs of the investment returns of REITs and Growth mutual funds for the periods he referred to in his program.
Rick, rapidcity55. Good information and more!! Yeah, I wonder how those good growth mutual funds have done for June, '08. Yep, markets DOWN. All these people that just want to listen to some 'radio guy', bleh blah. Great for (factual) information and, like you share in another post, having some (objectivity) here. NOT just what some guy says on radio. Glad your video gets visits.
RealAndTruth, your comments are a refreshing and rare breath of reason in this thread! And, I'll assure you that June will most likely turn up to be an ugly month for about every asset class, except commodities.
Jaymooky, you and Dave do have something in common, you speak (or type)before you think. Did you take the time to check out what REITs have done this year as compared to "good growth mutual funds?" Apparently not...as of May 31st, REITs are UP 8.28% and growth mutual funds are DOWN 1.59%.
You've demonstrated the point I was making about Dave's comments, you both failed to check your facts before you spoke, or in your case, wrote.
Wow, I'm glad I can listen to Dave's personality and not your monotonous voice every morning....I made it through 15 seconds of this garbage and however long it took me to type this comment.
I'm feeling cranky tonight, so fasten your seat belts. Geez, Generally people start out in hock and clueless, follow Daves plan, steps 1-3 are fabulous, and think they are suddenly experts. If this is you, you are vastly overconfident.
Here's what you know:
1. Spending discipline
2. Pay off debt, avoid new debt
3. Save Emergency fund
Here's what you don't know:
1. Squat about investing.
Dave is wealthy because he built a successful business (which does great work cheap, BTW).
The argument that Dave's richer so his advice is better is not founded. However, if you do look at some of the REIT performances (especially as of late) and based the housing market I am not sure I see if getting any better.
REITs had a rough 2007 after several stellar years. Hardly a surprise. YTD 2008, Vanguard REIT index is up >11%, more than any other diverse stock fund. My brother was grousing about it in his 401k, after it made him a bundle in preceding years, I persuaded him to keep it for its diversification role. The grousing has stopped. MPT folks like Rick and me like it for a reason - it improves return and reduces risk. No more or less. Most REITs focus on commercial RE, not the nutty home market.
Rick - Feel like a little Dave Debunking? Do you have a way to determine which of Dave's fund types had the best 10-15 year records as of Mayish 1998 (10 years ago)? Morningstar Principia perhaps? Since Dave's actual funds are a closely guarded secret, we'll have to pick funds that fit (at any cost) to his published criteria, since that's what anyone following his advice has to do. Then see how they would have done for the last 10 years vs. a more diverse mix like us MPT types would.
While your comparison of a REIT index fund to the morningstar average of growth mutual funds is interesting in it's own right, I think you are fundamentally misrepresenting what Dave said.
When I hear the term "good growth fund" I would never take that to mean "average" growth fund. I take that to mean funds in the top 5 percent of all growth funds. I hear Dave as saying work to find that "good" growth fund that has way above average performance and put your money there.
All you need is Engrish subtitles and you'll have the entire Japanese-Godzilla film feel down pat! - unless it's my computer that's just slow on the sound to video.
Anyway, your 'funds' grew ONCE, for a quarter while good growth stocks have been growing steadily.....
Sir, your information is incorrect. I will try to respond, but maybe you should call Dave. According to Dave, payed for real estate yields a margin greater than mutual funds(typically 20% for real estate to 12% for mutual funds), but there is a hassle factor. Dave does not like REITS because they do not have 20% yield more like 10% yield. Which suggest high fees somewhere that gobble up returns. Hope that helps.
Dave does what he teaches. He is multi-millionaire with no debt. Are you?
Thanks for your response. The position you explain, while it makes sense, is definitely not what Dave said on the air. I have called and emailed Dave on this issue and he has chosen to remain silent. I find it interesting that many of my critics suggest that unless I am a multi-millionaire, I have no authority to correct Dave's mistake. I wonder if you and your cohorts apply the same measure to anyone you correct who's in error?
Sir, your information on Dave is obviously incomplete, which you admitted when you state that you listed to Dave for 11 minutes per day out of a 3-hour show. When Dave is describing what he considers a good growth stock mutual fund, he frequently defines that as funds that have a 5+ year track record (preferrably 10+) of acheiving AT LEAST a 12% growth rate, and often 15+%. By this measure, the alternatives you advocate achieve parity at best, with greater risk and hassle factors.
Dear Sap - you compare apples and oranges - paid for real estate *should* return 20-25%, perhaps more, since it is a full time job and should provide REIT returns PLUS a full time income equivalent. OTOH, I can buy Vanguard REIT Index for .20% per year with a few mouse clicks, average 12.8% per year over the past 12 years, with zero further time, effort or hassle. Very different investments - no? Hope THAT helps (but it probably won't...). And that's "paid", BTW.
Just like banks and credit cards companies, Dave is making money out of you. The only thing is he is giving advise the old way...advising u must pay all your credit cards and get a 2nd job to do it? and forget school/education til u pay off ur debt?. Paying off ur debt is the worst u can do...do a "fresh start" instead and learn how Corporations behave in the U.S. Never be ashamed.
Ummmm.......there are mutual funds that invest in REITS. REIT's are no more complex than any stock. Any Joe Shmoe can buy a mutual fund that invests in REITs just as simply as one that invests in the stocks of companies. Who's missed the point?
rapidcity55 4 months ago
I think this video poster and many here are missing the point. This occurs when things are taken out of context and one statement is focused on without taking into account the entire message. Dave notes the wealthy get there through simple investment vehicles. A REIT is not a simple investment vehicle that any Joe Shmoe can obtain and utilize easily. This is why Mutual Funds which are a common investment vehicle is the vehicle he promotes. He is trying to help the masses, not the experts.
TheScriptureMan 4 months ago
2.6 average annual return for mutual funds sounds really, really low for any kind of mutual fund during this time period.
mcclurn11 4 months ago
you suck
zombie4165 7 months ago
Facts are facts. It is unwise to follow anyone blindly. Thank you.
Filmore87458 8 months ago
@ FDIguy......Ditto!!!!
06junebug 10 months ago
worldwidedata.ws has a surprise for everyone...This is your best investment.
Multicasas 11 months ago
Dave Ramsey is selling his stuff. He does not care about you.
How can you trust anyone in the MEDIA? Anyone?
They hope you are in misery. They remind me of the doctors in this country, who need you to be sick all the time. They pump you up with medications and NEVER want you to be healthy.
Dave Ramsey is another blowhard on the radio. Ignore him. You are better off meeting with someone who is not going to sell you another program but, work with you one on one.
FDIGUY828 11 months ago
@thompk12
No
sasquatchexpress 11 months ago
This guy is a drag to listen to. I think he misses the whole point. To get the average beat down blue collard worker a little hope and MOTIVATION to get themselves out of debt. Dave has most definitely got a lot of people out of debt. Right or wrong. Just by the way Dave says it and the simple way he breaks it down. I guarantee Dave has pulled far more people out of debt and dollar for dollar saved a lot more people money Than you have. Because your unbearable to listen to.
patrick258181 1 year ago
@patrick258181
How can you have the audacity to post this without even listening to what this guy said. He didn't argue to the contrary of what you wrote. You read the title of his video and already decided to write this incoherent mess before you even watched it and realized he complimented Dave Ramsey but pointed out a piece of incorrect advice Ramsey gave during a radio show.
sasquatchexpress 11 months ago
I didn't click past the first page, I noticed this video was posted 11/07...............Dave talks about long term growth funds. LONG TERM GROWTH meaning 20. 30, 40, plus years. Bond funds?!?!?!?! (variety of different bond funds, beginning at 5:05 on the video). Now I know this video is over 3 years old, but Sir.............please, show me a bond fund with at least a 20 year positive track record over 8%.
robstang66 1 year ago
@robstang66 Who mention bonds in this video? Listen to the video again and then Google REITs. REITS are not bonds, my friend.
rapidcity55 1 year ago
@robstang66 The point is to get the best return for the risk taken. Including bonds helps dampen the volatility of a portfolio allowing many people enough peace of mind to stay in the market when the market is hurting. That is a good thing.
bdmunroe 1 year ago
@robstang66 The point is to get the best return for the risk taken. Including bonds helps dampen the volatility of a portfolio allowing many people enough peace of mind to stay in the market when the market is hurting. That is a good thing.
bdmunroe 1 year ago
@bdmunroe
This depends totally on the investor perspective. For a 50 year old this may be true. For a 25 year old, probably not.
sasquatchexpress 11 months ago
@robstang66 REITs long term returns still beat those of “good growth stock mutual funds.” A recent study done by Francis and Ibbotson that compared the 30 year returns on stocks and REITs ( from 1978 to 2008) found that stocks (S&P 500) had an average annual return of 10.84% while equity REITs averaged 11.94%. :
rapidcity55 1 year ago
Are you just mad that he's making it big and no one even knows who you are? Cause it seems like everyone who has posted here has caught all of your misconceptions... its easy to say that you have heard all these things from his talk show and you really have no proof. So, sorry homie. Looks like he beat you again.
pudgetheman 1 year ago
@pudgetheman
I don't know which is more sad; you taking the time to post this or your inability to understand words.
sasquatchexpress 11 months ago
With all Of those boring numbers you sound like my psychology Teacher.... Boringggg
seyerad17 1 year ago
Dave does a great job motivating and teaching those in heavy debt and financial straits good basic financial priciples so that they can get to the point where they have money to start investing! He is pitching his opinion! Thats why people call him! Obviously, anyone with half a brain seeks wise council (plural) not just one wise councillor! You might have done better to position yourself as complimentary instead of opposition! He always admits to how conservative he is in investing.
bthomd 1 year ago
@bthomd Did you listen to the opening of the video where I referred to Dave's advice on cash flow management as "brilliant?" Seems that was a fairly complimentary statement. Reading the comments to this video are very interesting to me. It seems a lot of folks have such a blind alliance to Dave that they are unable to admit he got his facts wrong in this one area. That doesn't make him wrong in everything, as many seem to suggest I am saying.
rapidcity55 1 year ago
@bthomd Did you listen to the opening of the video where I referred to Dave's advice on cash flow management as "brilliant?" Seems that was a fairly complimentary statement. Reading the comments to this video are very interesting to me. It seems a lot of folks have such a blind alliance to Dave that they are unable to admit he got his facts wrong in this one area. That doesn't make him wrong in everything, as many seem to suggest I am saying.
rapidcity55 1 year ago
Ramsey generally claims that good growth mutual funds average 12% in the long term. I don't think he has ever stated that they "easily return 12% to 15% a year" as you claim. You are exaggerating at best, and your rant here is probably based solely on your pathetic envy of his success.
308mmm 1 year ago
twisting the facts to appear true in your light. Facts are FACTS your numbers are based on specific terms that are not typical and intrigue a risky venture.
matthewetchie 1 year ago
You my friend must be a broker. Commisions drive your opinion. Dave does't get commision. The red tie and loose fit jacket gives you away. The clothing may as well be the hair from the back of the wolf.... SHEEP... BEWARE!!!!
Oh yeah. Lay off the BOTOX
tony42mailman 1 year ago
You my friend must be a broker. Commisions drive your opinion. Dave does't get commision. The red tie and loose fit jacket gives you away. The clothing may as well be the hair from the back of the wolf.... SHEEP... BEWARE!!!!
tony42mailman 1 year ago
You make me sick ! I mean WOW you talk like your gay
cruise3574 1 year ago
While I too am a tremendous fan of Dave Ramsey, having coordinated Dave's FPU courses for nearly two years, I have similar issues. Any and all investment sectors are cyclical and vary in performance over time. Value funds tend to perform inversely to growth funds, except when they're both doing well. The bottom line: Diversify - everyone of ANY age or objectives must properly allocate and balance one's portfolio. Also, Dave is absolutely clueless regarding life insurance.
rcdrury1 1 year ago
You are a moron. Real-estate based investments grew 11% UP TO 2007? DUH...NOW where are they???
bowke28 1 year ago
You're an ass. Dave's approach is easy , simple and correct.
Anothersidetwo 1 year ago
I guess Dave also requires little bit education about life insurance as well.
BeamaLife 1 year ago
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If you knew what you where talking about you would'nt have to read you opinion. Get a life!! Scumburger!
mjturner1976 1 year ago
If you knew what you where talking about you would'nt have to read you opinion. Get a life!! Scumburger!
mjturner1976 1 year ago
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If you knew what you where talking about you would'nt have to read you opinion. Get a life!! Scumburger!
mjturner1976 1 year ago
If you knew what you where talking about you would'nt have to read you opinion. Get a life!! Scumburger!
mjturner1976 1 year ago
Grantnids - I do, and you are right. 8% is a joke.
joetaxpayer2 1 year ago
Dave's a dope. He called Peter Schiff a "nut job." Plus he's an arrogant ass. Totally wrong on tithing, gold and the crash of '08. His debt advice is mostly common sense. Some of it is unwise though. Unfortunately he's an idol for most sheeple out there. What a joke.
provc 1 year ago
@provc Schiff is just another gold hyper.
TheGoalSetter 1 year ago
You trash on Dave for being too specific in investments--then go on to tout REITS. hmm...
Lets look at the big picture:
--get out of debt (completely)
--build an emergency fund
--invest with your own money
Once you are investing your own money I'm not sure it really matters much what you invest in. However, I would recommend buying investments that share your philosophy--i.e. don't buy an investment that is engaging in debt leverage. (A lot of REITS probably fell into that category.)
jwstaddo 1 year ago
Dave Ramsey's advice always tends to skew toward benefiting his organization and his "endorsed local providers." Ever wonder why he recommends mutual funds, but not index funds? Mutual funds have higher commissions because they're actively managed, meaning more money for the ELPs, more money for Dave Ramsey, and less money for you.
You can start a Roth IRA on your own through a number of discount brokers, but you'll never heard that from Dave Ramsey.
neocort 1 year ago
The thing is Ramsey has to answer callers right there. He can't say hold on let me go research it. If this was an article Ramsey wrote where there is time to fact check, that's one thing but on the spot radio talk shows are another.
As always get your info from many sources, just don't say Dave where do I put my money then take that advise blindly.
bc1969214 2 years ago 2
@bc1969214
You offer excellent advice. Too many people blindly follow Dave's advice, and don't bother to check.
blueskunk12 2 years ago
Ditto bc1969214, on every issue we are all responsible for researching what others say and write about and get different view points. Then a person should realize which way to go. Just taking the advice of one person is a bad idea.
amberfwn 1 year ago
@bc1969214
I agree about having to think quickly. But to not know something as important as this and just spout of information that is incorrect is being not responsible to his job. It's not like this is some minor mistake. This is data that's been available for a LONG period of time (years+). If it was something that had changed in the last month then I would give more credence to your argument.
sasquatchexpress 11 months ago
@sasquatchexpress I hear what you're saying but it would be worthwhile knowing if Ramsey answered on a live program or pre-recorded. If live, I don't picture any of these gurus saying "I'm not sure, I need to research that and I'll have a staff member get back with you" even when they should say that. Even info that's been out there for years doesn't come to mind instantly. Some of these gurus try to be jack of all trades instead of wisely sticking to specific areas.
bc1969214 11 months ago
You can always pick a period - 10 years, 8 years, 15 years, etc. - to make your point. Plus, with the fallout of REITs with the crash of late 2008, his point is moot as well. Nice try, but no dice.
jasonphos 2 years ago
Well, 3,5, and 10 year periods are pretty much the standard in the investment management profession for comparisons. Dave was using a 10 year period to "make his point." My whole point (which seems to be lost on most who blindly follow Dave) is that he was wrong. Is Dave right on most issues? Yes. However, and like most of us from time to time, on this point he didn't do his homework.
rapidcity55 2 years ago
Bravo
chuckminsterabby 2 years ago
Wow I can almost see the read card from his glasses
chuckminsterabby 2 years ago
You've got it wrong Dear Sir. You need to INVEST your INTEREST in what DAVE RAMSEY has ACTUALLY said. Sorry.
Sad for you,
He was talking about the market HISTORY.
Take it easy though, there's more ahead if you actually investigate what you're rebuking.
novsev 2 years ago
Novsev,
OK, so by your standards 3, 5, and 10 year periods are not historical. That's fine....what then is HISTORICAL to you? 15 years, 25 years, 70 years? Take your pick and then tell me what the return was from "good growth mutual funds" over the term that you select? Compare that with the REIT returns. It's possible either could be the better performer. What we know is that over the past 10 years "good growth mutual" funds had a total return of -2.5% and REITS a positive return of 8%.
rapidcity55 2 years ago
The stock market is one of the biggest scams out there. 1 there's always inside info being traded. 2 it's like gambling you take your chances. 401 k sucks if you take money out earlier it's taxed 2x IRAs taxed and pentlie 10%.. if people want to invest in something ...Gold silver or platinum
Greeksgonecrazy29 2 years ago
You're wrong there buddy. Dave NEVER said growth stock mutual funds earn 10-12% PER YEAR! It's 10-12% over the life of the stock market's history. Get your facts correct..
djswizz 2 years ago 7
That's a good one! LOL!!!! If Dave really said that......wow......there is no hope.
rapidcity55 2 years ago
djswizz is right..maybe if you read his work and not just listen to him on the radio a few minutes you wouldnt sound like such an idiot..Dave has helped so many people invest correctly and get their life on track its not even funny
jamestg18 2 years ago
@djswizz No he's not. Even after the last insane decade, Dave STILL throws out the generic 12% figure when referring to growth MFs. I've coordinated Dave's FPU for over 2 years. I'm as big a fan of Dave's as walks the planet anywhere. I'm also a published leading authority in areas of personal financial management; and I recognize that in many areas, particularly insurance and investments, Dave's advice is extremely weak.
rcdrury1 1 year ago
@djswizz
You seriously can't be this stupid.
sasquatchexpress 11 months ago
@djswizz I'm sure someone has pointed this out in the last year, but this is wrong: Dave's website says this: "When Dave says you can expect to make 12% on your investments, he’s using a real number that’s based on the historical average annual return of the S&P 500."
Unfortunately, Dave is wrong on that... the annualized return of the S&P 500 is 9.89%, not 12% as Dave claims. And once you account for inflation, it's 6.7%.
drburgwald 7 months ago
OMG,,How can Dave be wrong on anything when everything he said to do is working for everybody?
kenfla2 2 years ago
Dave is brillant on cash flow and real estate issues, no doubt about that. But he didn't check his facts on this issue or his assertion you can sustaing your retirement nestegg and still withdraw 8%. That doesn't work, either.
rapidcity55 2 years ago
He is not only WRONG about REIT he is also WRONG about LIFE INSURANCE go check out my Youtube video "Dorlan H. Francis on Life Insurance
dhfken 2 years ago
The only flaw I see in this video is the time in which your money is in the funds... Dave isnt using a 10 or 5 year period. Hes using a 25-30 year run with money. Saying that the longer the money is in, the more stable and closer to his numbers are. 1 he claims, for a 70 year track record has averaged 13 something percent per year.
But I could be wrong. Im not at that step in the program yet anyways lol. Im still on baby step 1 :)
neemguy81 2 years ago
Every investor could be beat up during 2008. How the hell are you supposed to make a good call while government is creating unpredictable regulation?
My mutual fund just went up 20% during the first quarter of 2009...Granted, it's got nothing to do with Dave Ramsey, but, dude here could easily have chosen a different time frame to make a completely different point.
caltrop69 2 years ago
To the creator of the video:
I'm sure you know what you are talking about. My only questions are, How much wealth do you have, and what is your annual income?
Xenocaust 2 years ago
Wow you are freaking brilliant, you are using the worst stock fund year since the great depression.
Most Reit funds got CRUSHED over the periods you mention. I could look all day at morningstar and find a stock fund to dwarf your Vanguard Reit fund's return??
Use the 70 year average and let me know your findings. That's where you will get the 12 % average return (possibly barring this past year)
()
Ogilvy282 2 years ago
Try putting a 12% growth rate and an 8% withdrawal rate into a Monte Carlo simulation and the result will come out 0. But I wouldn't expect the other commenters to understand what I'm talking about.......
grantnids 2 years ago
Sir - I completely agree. The people bashing you here aren't investment professionals so don't really know what you're talking about. As a fellow-fee-only financial planner, I cringe every time Dave gives his "canned" investment advice to EVERYONE who asks. Granted he does say to use one of his ELPs but I agree that he is a great salesman/marketer rather than investment professional.
grantnids 2 years ago
Dave has advocated portfolio diversity since the beginning concerning investments. From my understanding, he's advocated mutual funds because they have been around and produced for a long time, no matter what the economy is doing. I could be wrong, but it's kind of a toroise vs. hare thing.
cornfednebraskaneer 2 years ago 2
@cornfednebraskaneer Dave's as quick to toss around terms like diversification as much as anyone; but the truth is that he doesn't advocate it. I have never heard him recommend anything but growth MFs, regardless of age or objectives. And forget about personal risk tolerance altogether; as far as Dave is concerned, you do what you're told whether or not it allows you to sleep at night.
rcdrury1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I'd like to slap Dave Ramsey in the face with an open palm repeatedly for calling Peter Schiff an idiot. Schiff has been correctly predicting trends for years, and this a-hole has the nerve to shit talk him for saying we would have a crash in 08. Ramsey is NOT a financial guru. He clearly doesn't even understand basic economics.
lacon007 2 years ago
Comment removed
lacon007 2 years ago
No. I don't want to buy MonaVie
GomerDose 2 years ago
Do some of you just comment without listening to this video? The point was not to push REITs or any other asset class. The point was to highlight the lack of due dilligence that Dave gave to his statement....which was just plain wrong! Yes, indeed, REITS have tanked shince then....so have those "good growth mutual funds" along with every other asset class. It's too bad you didn't have a diversified portfolio with 5 or more asset classes represented, if you had, your ass wouldn't be as sore.
rapidcity55 2 years ago 2
Just another broker trying to get you to invest in a bogus deal. REIT funds a.k.a Real Estate Investment Trust funds were TANKING when this guy made this video. This video was made right as the real estate industry was getting the shit kicked out of them and then it fell dead. I KNOW because I was invested heavily in them.
DmFischer5 2 years ago
@DmFischer5 You missed it completely. RC55 wasn't advocating any type of investment. He was pointing out that Dave makes assertions without either the knowledge or due diligence to back them up; then defends them quite arrogantly, even in the face of true experts, which Dave is definitely not.
rcdrury1 1 year ago
Thank you for pointing this out. Ive been listening to his show for a couple of years now. What you are saying is HUGE! You know , there is alot of misinformation out there, and right now in the media, it seams like the threads have come loose. Im glad I took his advice with a grain of salt, with regards to investments. However, my cash flow has never been better since I ve been paying off my debt. Well done Sir.
murderface74 2 years ago
Great video, The truth always hurts. I agree with nearly everything your saying except for your recommendations to buy mutual funds. They're all crap. Buy stock.
IncorruptibleTruth 2 years ago
Maybe you should actually listen for longer than 11 minutes... break the chains off your stock broker brain.. and go to a Financial Peace University. I smell Conflict of interest here...
trinastigger 2 years ago
No conflit Ms. Trinastigger....I am not a stock broker...don't sell a thing....just facts.
rapidcity55 2 years ago
@trinastigger Boy, did YOU miss it! RC55 has so much positive to say about Dave Ramsey, but realizes that Dave's financial expertise ends at debt management and real estate. He is correct. I've coordinated FPU for over 2 years. I'm a fan; but so many of his mantras are generalizations that are "okay" for most, but absolutely wrong for some. Dave's investment advice is generic, simplistic, and often unrealistic. His life insurance advice can be assumed to be incorrect almost 100% of the time.
rcdrury1 1 year ago
You all need to listen to Dave, he never never tell anyone to invest all of your money in one basket. also you need to listen to Dave he gives advice on what might be a good place to invest your money, its your decision so everyone who is critical of Dave, shut up!!!!, take responsibility and invest your money the way you want to don't blame Dave for what happens to your money, because you invested it
mtlinknfl 2 years ago
You got that right!!!! Dave has good advice!
bond519 2 years ago 2
Are you sure you left comments regarding the right video?
I don't comment on any fund names in this video. Neither am I a broker or do I sell any products. Maybe you should listen to the video first before posting next time?
rapidcity55 2 years ago
You did't mention the Vanguard Rate Index fund? In Daves course he mentions that there are funds that our perform others but you just kindly didn't mention that did you? He also teaches to learn and investigate before purchase. Looks to me that you are just trying to sell your own service as a fee based planner and your own books. Maybe you should do a little more research and attend one of Daves courses then form an opinion. I'm a advisor and I Don't always agree with him but I don't bash him.
bond519 2 years ago
It is amazing that the author is using fund names and being very general according to Dave. Why don't you sell your stuff a little more. I have been through Daves Fianancial peace University course and Your comparison is twistedly informative. You are twisting Daves Information. Why don't you have the guts to take Dave on Directly rather than sell your own stuff. Typical agent way of responding. If you would actually do what you say you do and listen to a whole course, you might see the truth.
bond519 2 years ago
Dave Ramsey changed my life with his unwise, unlearned, off-the-cuff advice. I'm sitting pretty now with the dollar and the economy crumbling. Mr. Kahler, I only hope your clients sleep as soundly as I do every night. Have a good cyclical downturn.
kennethpace2 2 years ago
@kennethpace2 Kenneth, Dave's advice is often "unwise, unlearned, [and] off-the-cuff." I've been coordinating FPU for over 2 years and am head of the nation's largest nonprofit financial planning organization. I know Dave's philosophy well, and it rates a solid C- from a technical standpoint. I teach FPU because it motivates people to take control of their finances, and gives them hope; but the truth is that anyone with even a mediocre financial advisor will do better.
rcdrury1 1 year ago
"Dave Ramsey, How Could You?"
Because he is right!
gigman7 2 years ago
Dave Ramsey and his timeless financial advice. And on 2/20/'09 the dow jones sits at 7,300 and change.
RealAndTruth 2 years ago
Vanguard Reit in 2009 over -40% return. Imagine if you listened to his advice in 2007 and bought lots of this stuff!!!
Brandstrains 2 years ago
I'm pissed at all Financial 'Gurus' right now. They are all experts 'after the fact'. These same Bozos that told us to go without New cars and take less vacations while you stuff your IRA account----are now all going to write books about the CRASsssssSSSh and why it happened-----TOO DAMN FUNNY. Ramsey's DNA was dipped in real estate. He considers himself the Grand Pubah of real estate.
He has a Master's Degree in Common Sense. But people lost billions listening to him.
matt75hooper 2 years ago
lol your funny bud all your doing is plugging the vanguard index fund you must work for them lol
musicgeek3 2 years ago
Ramsey recently had a desperate woman with 10 kids call in. She didnt have 2 nuickles to rub together..People called in after hearing her plight. They wanted to donate and help her---immediately.
He said No. We dont do that here. She must go to her church----blah blah. A 61 year old widow called with $500K in an IRA, a paid off home, and nice income. She called in for advice----she wanted a New car. Never had one her whole life. He said NO. Get a nice used one.
matt75hooper 2 years ago
1.) Desperate woman was NOT a verified charity case... in other words, the people making donations did NOT have a guarantee that their funds were actually going to help the woman's supposed situation. Listen to the WHOLE episode - he explains why they don't take donations for callers.
wittsgirl 2 years ago
People all over the country watched their home appreciation obliterate before their eyes. Decades of saving in their IRA----gone in a flash. Millions preparing to retire-----will now work until the day they drop dead. The men leading the sheep to slaughter do not need blind defending. Ramsey---and the rest of the 'experts' have no shame. To have not had Clue One about what was coming----and call yourself an expert, bragging quite regularly---is indefensible.
matt75hooper 2 years ago
wake me up when its over guys...zzzzzzzz
pantyinspector75 3 years ago
85% of all actively managed mutual funds underperform the S&P 500 according to Morningstar. I started using ETF's due to the pitiful performance of the idiot money managers who basically wiped out people's savings and retirements. Fortunately last year I was shorting or holding cash while the stock market when into free fall. When you look at the fee's, taxes and again performance of mutual funds, it just doesn't make sense to be in them... my honest opinion. Sorry Dave.
stupadasso1964 3 years ago
Sounds like a commercial to me.
Knightwer 3 years ago
This guy looks like he is in some Japanese movie where his lips don't go with his voice.
gigman7 3 years ago
Also, this gentleman is incorrect in stating that value funds have significantly outperformed growth funds. The difference over 40 years is actually only a mere 0.11% in favor of value funds. This makes both types of funds about equal. Thus, on this point, both this gentleman and Dave Ramsey are wrong. Nevertheless, this man has made a serious blunder in saying that growth funds weren't even earning 3% on average.
IHateUserNames86 3 years ago
@IHateUserNames86 The important issue here is diversification and allocation, something Ramsey pays lip service, but doesn't really advocate. Growth funds and income funds have provided similar returns over time, but are inversely cyclical in nature. Their returns tends to move somewhat inversely, except when they're both doing well. It's probably a good idea to have roughly an equal mix of both and regularly rebalance.
rcdrury1 1 year ago
Ok, so I went online to Morningstar and looked up those stats he referred to. Clearly this guy has never studied a course in even the most basic statistical concepts. The best growth stock mutual funds have in fact returned 12-15% per year when you take into consideration the fact that they have totally tanked over the last 12 months and this has skewed the data seriously. However, if you take the average over ten years prior to
2008, Dave Ramsey is completely vindicated!
IHateUserNames86 3 years ago
This dude needs to take the stick out of his butt.
vers0014 3 years ago
"So how much money does this guy have? Why isn't he as famous as Dave if he knows whats going on?"
____________
Because "dumbed-down" can generally outsell nuance. Seriously, listen to how boring this guy is... he dares to bring in actual facts, to cite authorities (like Morningstar)-- and he just isn't all that entertaining. Meanwhile Dave R. hoots and hollers like Jackie Gleason, calls people "idiots", and is generally entertaining.
eatingworms 3 years ago 2
So how much money does this guy have? Why isn't he as famous as Dave if he knows whats going on? Because I strictly follow Dave. I now, as a young woman, making $8 an hour, who got married this year and moved into my first home, cut up my credit cards, have my emergency fund, and have paid off 2 of the 3 credit cards. This guy may be about hording your money, but Dave teaches you how to get money to horde and freely admits there are other awesome people out there to learn from.
Cybrokat 3 years ago
As of 12/5/08 the REIT by Vanguard he is talking about is down 47.02% YTD. It is down 1.16% over the last 5 years while a Vanguard Mutual Fund, VGSTX, is up 1.16% over the past 5 years and has had a generous 8.95% return since inception. That is why day is a millionaire because he is more conservative and he makes well calculated risks.
Dhayes8282 3 years ago
This guy is probably hurting as of late. Time for the finanical planner bubble to burst. "dave didn't check the facts", yet he's a multi millionaire. He ends with promoting himself. Buy this, buy this....from me. Dave encourages investing yourself so this guy dosnt take all your profit. This guy is just trying to profit off dave. He is trying to tap into daves loyal listeners who are going to have a lot of extra cash due to Daves advice, not this schmuk.
joeybuttifucco 3 years ago
Dude, what video were you watching!! Not mine. I don't end any video promoting a product or ask anyon to buy anything from me....because I don't sell products. I only sell my advice. You must be watching a commission planner and confusing him with me, do you think?
rapidcity55 3 years ago
maybe you should tell me to check the facts now. wish i had the time, gotta run loser
joeybuttifucco 3 years ago
"I don't sell products. I only sell my advice."
"I don't sell.." "...I only sell.."
How contredicting.
Your advice is your product, which you -are- promoting.
EmbraceTheThunder 3 years ago
@joeybuttifucco Dave isn't a millionaire because of his financial expertise, but because he's second-to-none at self-promotion. Look at Suze Orman. While Dave is often wrong, Suze is absolutely clueless. "This guy," while quite possibly promoting himself, isn't selling a thing; and he's actually not being overly critical of Dave, just pointing out that Dave often makes strong generalized statements that lack credibility.
rcdrury1 1 year ago
The only people who critize dave are financial planners. I'm sure this guy has a special interest in his own commission. Sure, his ideas "might" return a little more, but then he gets his cut. Debt is the main enemy here. This guy has too much time for making a video. Markets are bad, he must be bored while dave is on the radio 3 hrs a day helping and making money himself.
joeybuttifucco 3 years ago
@joeybuttifucco "The only people who criticize dave are financial planners.
Precisely! And it has absolutely nothing to do with self-interest. I am head of the nation's largest nonprofit financial planning organization (over 3,000 planners, CPAs, attorneys, etc.), and one of Dave's biggest fans. I've coordinated Dave's FPU courses for nearly two years. As much as I endorse what Dave does well, I am extremely critical of him in many ways. His financial expertise is average AT BEST.
rcdrury1 1 year ago
Thanks for helping me make my point. Dave is brilliant in helping people get out of personal debt, real estate, and bankruptcy issues. He has a lot of common sense. He is not, however, an investment specialist and he would do himself a favor to either get some education in that area or consult with someone that does.
rapidcity55 3 years ago
and the only reason you think he should do all that is because you have a dog in the race!! You have your own personal agenda of saying youre right and hes wrong. Now if you want to know someone that is TERRIBLE at financial advice, you need to drill Jim Cramer. He gives bad bad advice daily and yet you dog on Dave and you make it sound really good that you LISTEN to him and all and give him one minute of good comments while spending the next 5 minutes calling him everything but a Christian.
stevedb28 3 years ago
I'm sure you are the guy he should invest his millions with. What is your commission rate?
joeybuttifucco 3 years ago
Hey Joey, my commission rate is "0". I am a fee-only financial planner which means I don't sell any investments, just advice.
rapidcity55 3 years ago
You are talking about a man (Dave)that deals in a whole multitude of issues from investing to bankruptcy to business management as well as finacial legal issues. His specialty is getting ppl out of debt,
stevedb28 3 years ago
Dave doesn't know investing well. Rapidcity is right, as much as it pains some of you. Dave does have to keep it simple, because most people that are in debt don't know money and investing well either or they wouldn't be in debt in the first place.
sarahvandy121 3 years ago
Sarah must be his secretary. Rapid said "sarah, they're bashing me, post a comment saying how smart i am"
joeybuttifucco 3 years ago
Hey, I like Dave! He's very knowledgeable and I'm not disputing that, but he doesn't know everything about investing because it's not his specialty. Would you rather a Neurosurgeon or your GP do your brain surgery? I'm not attacking Dave. I listen to him often and he gives his target audience some great advice. He has enriched many people's lives with his no nonsense strategy. Also, I am no one's secretary.
sarahvandy121 3 years ago
Thank you for your prayers! You will be thrilled to know they worked, retroactively!! I've listened to Dave almost everyday for several years on my drive home each evening. I've read his books. And, I actually did contact Dave about his mistake. I guess your prayers are three for three!!! Maybe now that your prayers have worked for me, you should start praying for Dave, because he blew me off. So, several weeks later I wrote my column and talked to my camera.
rapidcity55 3 years ago
I am praying for you. Dave is a wonderful man who has helped millions of people! Maybe you should listen to Ramsey for more than 11 minutes, read one of his books or go through his 13 week course. Why didn't you spend your time calling his radio show to rebuke him directly instead of talking to a camera? God Bless you!
scintally 3 years ago 6
@scintally "I'm praying for you" Doesn't that make you feel good saying that. "I, who am so radiant and holy, am posing my will on my g-d to make you a better person because that's how gracious and good I am." Like, why are you praying for him? Because he made a factual claim about a profession that he is clearly invested in? What a sinner he must be, to call out one of g-d's heavenly messengers on a simple statement that goes against the data. Yeah! He's going to burn in hell, unless you pray!
yrureadingthisname 1 year ago
Thanks for the sound information Rapidcity55. Dave is not an investment planner, PERIOD!
RealAndTruth 3 years ago
What gets me is his position on gold. He claims that gold has never been a good investment, hasn't kept up with inflation and has only returned 4.2% over the last 75 years (not a fair period of time). The U.S. was on a gold standard the first 38 years of the 75 he uses. It's obvious that you won't get more dollars by holding gold during a gold standard! If you start in August 1971 (U.S. came off the gold standard), inflation is over 1700%, the Dow is up only 1200%, and gold is up nearly 2000%.
addbball 3 years ago
No, he said gold has returned -4.2% per year after inflation.
ajpmathwiz 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
In my opinion, Dave Ramsey is nothing more that a celebrity / radio personailty that the uneducated morons have to listen to because their to lazy to learn how to play the financial game.
hartj61 3 years ago
Lazy?? Morons?? uneducated?? I think you dont understand the financial game. If you actually listened and did what Dave advises, youd understand, I have done what he advises and I bet money that my finances look a heck of a lot better than yours!! We are in the middle of a recession and credit crunch and while youre hoping and praying that the bank will still give you that loan on that shiny new car, Im paying cash. Who cares if your interest rate is 5 pct? Mine is 0 pct. Now, whos the moron
stevedb28 3 years ago 2
Thanks for the facts! Ignore the stupid idiotic comments that uneducated jabronies make. You're to be commended for taking the time out of your schedule to inform people of financial truths. Listen people, if what you thought to be true about Ramsey's statements wasn't true, WHEN would you want to know it. DAVE ia a good marketer and sells a lot of books. DUH!
hartj61 3 years ago
How did this guy manage to get 2 stars???Maybe his mom voted a 5 to bring up the average.Dave is KING.
Brainwave68 3 years ago 3
Rapidcity55- you are lame! i cant believe what you are saying.. DAVE IS KING!! he is better than yyou...
alal12345678910 3 years ago
@alal12345678910 As head of the nation's largest nonprofit financial planning organization, and having coordinated Dave's FPU courses for two years, I can assure you that Dave is most certainly NOT better than RapidCity, or any average financial planner. His expertise is debt management and personal motivation. For these, he rates an A+, for financial planning knowledge and expertise, C- on a steep curve.
rcdrury1 1 year ago
The whole point of my remarks were to simply address his misstatement that REITS never produce good returns and that good growth mutual funds always do 12 to 15% over a 10 year period. That is simply not true, and in fact, just the opposite was true at the time he made these statements. A man of Dave's stature who commands blind trust from many of his followers needs to check his facts. Another big error Dave makes is suggesting that an 8% withdrawal rate is achievable. More on that later.
rapidcity55 3 years ago
The title of this video is a bit melodramatic and perhaps inappropriate, even the speaker acknowledges and promotes diversity over a unilateral approach, which is really not as far removed from what Ramsey teaches, and growth funds have a long term track record that is hard to match. I honestly believe, after doing some of my own research, that this is the hare calling the turtle a slow poke--It really just depends on what level of volatility each person is comfortable with.
creepsomber 3 years ago 2
RealAndTruth,
Thanks for taking the time to simply check the facts. That was what I was suggesting Dave needed to do from the beginning.
At some point in the future, REITS will be in the tank and growth funds will be doing great. My whole point was that Dave didn't check his facts before proclaiming REITS a terrible investment and growth funds the superior over the previous 10 years. Now, REITS aren't better than growth funds or visa versa. A diversified portolio has both and more.
rapidcity55 3 years ago
rapidcity55, great that your video gets views. I just looked at the REIT that you talk about. The Vanguard REIT, and for this year 2008, the (YTD) year to date has a return of positive. And that's nearly 3 and a quarter percent! Return is through 8/12/'08.
In comparison, "good growth stock mutual funds" are in the toilet! The good, stable, valuable, "correct" information.
RealAndTruth 3 years ago
whos hand is up this guys back?
mrrrks39 3 years ago 3
Dave teaches Diversity you Idiot.
ecarrell2 3 years ago 4
I really don't care what my funds are doing this month. I care what they're doing twenty years from now.
dlvrymon 3 years ago 3
RapidCity55, isn't it amazing? So what Ruks79 is saying is that as long as someone has charisma, it is ok to give out wrong or incorrect information.
RealAndTruth 3 years ago
And, when a guy has charisma, who cares about the facts? :-)
rapidcity55 3 years ago
Geez, I see the battle still rages on. Dave fans - please understand he has to keep it simple. He starts with the completely clueless and does terriffic work at very low cost per person. Steps 1-3, which is really the meat of the course is outstanding and everyone should do it. The fact remains, all growth stock funds all the time is absolutely inappropriate for virtually everyone. And ignoring REITS is to ignore decades of history. Rick's investment advice is vastly better. Sorry.
gampublic 3 years ago
He says put your investment into 1 fund...that advice is better?
Ryanlynn2004 3 years ago
No, Rick is saying REITS are an excellent component of an overall portfolio allocation. Dave says they aren't. Decades of data shows Dave is clearly incorrect. REITS provide stocklike returns that are not very correlated to stock markets, which smooths out short term performance (like now...) and helps overall return. What's not to like? Dave has to keep it simple. He's great on steps 1-3, but don't listen to his investing advice.
gampublic 3 years ago
@gampublic Right on the money! And don't listen to his advice on life insurance either. The man is a genius at debt and cash flow management, and motivating people to turn their lives around, and for that he is to be commended; but in terms of financial planning (investing and risk management), he rates average at best.
rcdrury1 1 year ago
I applaud Dave's main message of getting out of debt. The simple fact is Dave is more charismatic than you and more people are going to listen to him.
ruks79 3 years ago
@ruks79 Absolutely; and for that he should be applauded. But when it comes down to brass tacks, people need sound investment and risk management advice; and Dave's simply not qualified to give it.
rcdrury1 1 year ago
Do you sell debt? I can see why you would not agree with Ramsey if that is the case.
Lets face it, if I ask a dozen CFPs' their opinion on personal investing, I will receive a dozen different opinions. That is just the way it is.
mrblujet 3 years ago 2
No, I don't sell anything. I am a fee-only financial planner meanining I am fee-for-service. And, my comments weren't on the appropriateness of either investment class, simply to call attention to Dave's factual erorrs of the investment returns of REITs and Growth mutual funds for the periods he referred to in his program.
rapidcity55 3 years ago
You look like you really know about this...not.
spartaeus 3 years ago
Rick, rapidcity55. Good information and more!! Yeah, I wonder how those good growth mutual funds have done for June, '08. Yep, markets DOWN. All these people that just want to listen to some 'radio guy', bleh blah. Great for (factual) information and, like you share in another post, having some (objectivity) here. NOT just what some guy says on radio. Glad your video gets visits.
RealAndTruth 3 years ago
RealAndTruth, your comments are a refreshing and rare breath of reason in this thread! And, I'll assure you that June will most likely turn up to be an ugly month for about every asset class, except commodities.
rapidcity55 3 years ago
I think this dude should rethink his REIT fund strategy... now that it has fallen through the basement. What a moron!
jaymooky 3 years ago 2
Jaymooky, you and Dave do have something in common, you speak (or type)before you think. Did you take the time to check out what REITs have done this year as compared to "good growth mutual funds?" Apparently not...as of May 31st, REITs are UP 8.28% and growth mutual funds are DOWN 1.59%.
You've demonstrated the point I was making about Dave's comments, you both failed to check your facts before you spoke, or in your case, wrote.
rapidcity55 3 years ago
You are so far out ther man. Dave will eat you alive if you ever meet face to face!!!
colewoman12 3 years ago 6
This guy has small man syndrome, good thing he can use someone else's name to get views
walleyeec 3 years ago 2
The growth funds average 12% with little risk. Plus, you must understand that his investment strategy is to invest long term i.e. 15 years +
robbcayman 3 years ago 4
Wow, I'm glad I can listen to Dave's personality and not your monotonous voice every morning....I made it through 15 seconds of this garbage and however long it took me to type this comment.
wrn1979 3 years ago 5
I'm feeling cranky tonight, so fasten your seat belts. Geez, Generally people start out in hock and clueless, follow Daves plan, steps 1-3 are fabulous, and think they are suddenly experts. If this is you, you are vastly overconfident.
Here's what you know:
1. Spending discipline
2. Pay off debt, avoid new debt
3. Save Emergency fund
Here's what you don't know:
1. Squat about investing.
Dave is wealthy because he built a successful business (which does great work cheap, BTW).
gampublic 3 years ago 2
The argument that Dave's richer so his advice is better is not founded. However, if you do look at some of the REIT performances (especially as of late) and based the housing market I am not sure I see if getting any better.
The funds, however, are starting to come back.
aerofan34 3 years ago
REITs had a rough 2007 after several stellar years. Hardly a surprise. YTD 2008, Vanguard REIT index is up >11%, more than any other diverse stock fund. My brother was grousing about it in his 401k, after it made him a bundle in preceding years, I persuaded him to keep it for its diversification role. The grousing has stopped. MPT folks like Rick and me like it for a reason - it improves return and reduces risk. No more or less. Most REITs focus on commercial RE, not the nutty home market.
gampublic 3 years ago
Rick - Feel like a little Dave Debunking? Do you have a way to determine which of Dave's fund types had the best 10-15 year records as of Mayish 1998 (10 years ago)? Morningstar Principia perhaps? Since Dave's actual funds are a closely guarded secret, we'll have to pick funds that fit (at any cost) to his published criteria, since that's what anyone following his advice has to do. Then see how they would have done for the last 10 years vs. a more diverse mix like us MPT types would.
gampublic 3 years ago
While your comparison of a REIT index fund to the morningstar average of growth mutual funds is interesting in it's own right, I think you are fundamentally misrepresenting what Dave said.
When I hear the term "good growth fund" I would never take that to mean "average" growth fund. I take that to mean funds in the top 5 percent of all growth funds. I hear Dave as saying work to find that "good" growth fund that has way above average performance and put your money there.
Solak76834 3 years ago
All you need is Engrish subtitles and you'll have the entire Japanese-Godzilla film feel down pat! - unless it's my computer that's just slow on the sound to video.
Anyway, your 'funds' grew ONCE, for a quarter while good growth stocks have been growing steadily.....
Oh, I fell asleep there, for a second.
mahnarch 3 years ago 3
Sir, your information is incorrect. I will try to respond, but maybe you should call Dave. According to Dave, payed for real estate yields a margin greater than mutual funds(typically 20% for real estate to 12% for mutual funds), but there is a hassle factor. Dave does not like REITS because they do not have 20% yield more like 10% yield. Which suggest high fees somewhere that gobble up returns. Hope that helps.
Dave does what he teaches. He is multi-millionaire with no debt. Are you?
sapofgold 3 years ago
Thanks for your response. The position you explain, while it makes sense, is definitely not what Dave said on the air. I have called and emailed Dave on this issue and he has chosen to remain silent. I find it interesting that many of my critics suggest that unless I am a multi-millionaire, I have no authority to correct Dave's mistake. I wonder if you and your cohorts apply the same measure to anyone you correct who's in error?
rapidcity55 3 years ago
Sir, your information on Dave is obviously incomplete, which you admitted when you state that you listed to Dave for 11 minutes per day out of a 3-hour show. When Dave is describing what he considers a good growth stock mutual fund, he frequently defines that as funds that have a 5+ year track record (preferrably 10+) of acheiving AT LEAST a 12% growth rate, and often 15+%. By this measure, the alternatives you advocate achieve parity at best, with greater risk and hassle factors.
Joker41NAM 3 years ago
Dear Sap - you compare apples and oranges - paid for real estate *should* return 20-25%, perhaps more, since it is a full time job and should provide REIT returns PLUS a full time income equivalent. OTOH, I can buy Vanguard REIT Index for .20% per year with a few mouse clicks, average 12.8% per year over the past 12 years, with zero further time, effort or hassle. Very different investments - no? Hope THAT helps (but it probably won't...). And that's "paid", BTW.
gampublic 3 years ago 2
Just like banks and credit cards companies, Dave is making money out of you. The only thing is he is giving advise the old way...advising u must pay all your credit cards and get a 2nd job to do it? and forget school/education til u pay off ur debt?. Paying off ur debt is the worst u can do...do a "fresh start" instead and learn how Corporations behave in the U.S. Never be ashamed.