Epic of Gilgamesh with 4500-year-old Lyre (extract)

[colddrake80]

I actually like the sound of the lyre. It does sound odd but I like it. Not at all like a harp - which I was expecting.

[Ramsez]

dat lyre looks pretty recent.

[Mayerling52]

age old wisdom!♥

[leftysergeant]

although it would be impossible to tell from a drawing, even to precise scale, what tunings were used on the lyre, given the variations on the thickness of the strings, the pipes that were discovered at the same site could only have ONE scale, since it is all based on the diameter and length of the bore and the spacing of finger holes. It is known that the Greeks had several scales or modes at their disosal, it is possible that the Sumerians used only one traditional scale.

[endoTHEOSIS]

Your hair isn't real!

[BayanTheOne]

'The original instrument was destroyed when the Baghdad museum was looted'

let's all praise the mothafucking dubya Bush for that

thankfully, the Egyptians have enough sanity to defend their national museum from looters these days

[knoxvilleguy2]

Where was this done ? It looks like an old chapel.

[MarkHarmer]

@knoxvilleguy2 It was - it's a church in Lincolnshire, UK. The video was done using 1 camera over 3 takes of the action.

[knoxvilleguy2]

@MarkHarmer - The acoustics, of course, were perfect. BTW, I've seen the large harps from the royal treasures of Ur, & wondered if they were actually designed to be played, or just as ceremonial objects.

[rdknight6]

The first written poem about Gilgamesh was in C. 2100-2000, before this it was passed down orally, then in C.1200-1000 B.C Brotherhood of the Snake (the Illuminati in acient times) priest Sin-Leqi Unninni edits and adds into what is now the standard version of the Epic, it has been changed to copy the stories of Adam and Eve known to Gods prophets and known to people in the ancient world, the Epic is a fraud, it has no prophecy whatsoever. It was written by satanists literally!

[SeadogDriftwood]

@ABookwormAndProud

MY past and MY people? *scratches head embarrassedly*

I'm a Canadian with an Eastern-European Jewish background on one side, and a mixed English-Swedish on the other.

But I agree with your sentiments. Iraq has been plundered & treated (forgive my crudeness) like shit. With the deposing of the Shah, the rise of Saddam and his subsequent terrors, the Gulf War, and the American Invasion, it's amazing ANYTHING is left that's even a hundred years old there, much less 4000-5000!

[andylowings]

My feeling is that they would have realised these important `anchor` notes in a scale, like the `fifth` the `octave` and the `third`(not that they would have called. them these).

This is because these divisions in a scale-range occur naturally in the human voice and ona string.

But just because they exist, isn`t to say that they actually used them!

Cuneiform tablets suggest they used these divisions, others say it is all a mistranslation. But many cultures still prefer rhythm over melody.

[Gaelicgurl99]

Gilbert Gadfrey Meschew, quit playing habib fer the Ibri. We all are quite aware you were a maddog Englishman in Japan. Bored yet? I owe you a shot of skye wihky, maybe? Or not. I do actually cook at times. Do remain open. En.ki.du is an Oak lief not a profit of gotham like that wood bee Na'dagnu El??? Old soul and not a slow learner, they let me do it. Oh, and don't mask him in tepish next time. That was the skien.

[MarkHarmer]

@Gaelicgurl99 Wow - they must have let you out accidentally!

[lyraa24]

my name lol :)

[glorplaxy]

this lyre sounds very similar to the ethiopian begena. i have heard that the begena has something on the strings near the bridge to make them buzz more...does this lyre have that, also?

[Spriglief]

Loved it. This is how history is done. I'm looking for material for a Gilgamesh poem to carry the tradition of the Gilgamesh poems/story through my own era. Thanks for your own effort.

[dderudito]

VERY GOOD!

Thanks! Thanks! Thanks!

[dderudito]

Fantastic!

[yerk3]

@rockndpop Orlando Bloom doesn't look Sumerian anyway, you should use Arab actors.

[Davesax1965]

Unfortunately, whilst I completely applaud the idea of reconstructing a 4,500 year old instrument, I think it makes no sense whatsoever to attempt to play music on it. Nice tone, but the tempo, tuning and - well, everything - is pure guesswork. (Unfortunately, I started getting reminded of an ice cream van half way through.)

[TomPersinos]

@Davesax1965

On the contrary the tunings of that era still exist.

Hundreds of tuning systems still exist going back thousands of years.

No music exists but the resources are still available so one could make a heck of an educated guess. Music was different back then. Not the abstract form we have now. More about ritual/theatre even the occult. It had more meaning. Harry Partch revived the ritual aspect of ancient musics. Lou Harrison composed using hundreds of ancient tunings as well

[Davesax1965]

@TomPersinos Yep, the tunings exist, the scales exist, the music doesn't, so the music is a guess. Matter of fact, when you look into it, since no one had a pitch meter, er, the tunings turn out to be a guess too. Timing will be a guess (it transpired that all orchestras were playing Beethoven too slow recently, and that's only 200 years old...) So. You've got tunings which may not be right, no music, no tempo..... er...... you were saying ?

[TomPersinos]

@Davesax1965 The tunings were not guesswork at all but methodically worked out mathematically and were quite exact. No pitch meter was needed. The monochord was used and tunings were generally worked out using lowest common denominator ratios derived from prime numbers. I suggest you check out Just Intonation theory. The tunings are as exact today as they were hundreds/thousands of years ago.......er........you were saying?

[Davesax1965]

@TomPersinos Er, I was saying that Just Intonation Theory is ... guess what, it's theory, Tom. You're making a gigantic conceptual leap there. It is absolutely beyond our capacity to prove what this instrument sounded like. We can guess. Anything revolving around theory is guesswork. I've a degree in History and I've been a musician for 35 years. I would still not make any kind of guess as to what this lyre sounded like.

[TomPersinos]

@Davesax1965 The tunings were not guesswork at all but methodically worked out mathematically and were quite exact. No pitch meter was needed. The monochord was used and tunings were generally worked out using lowest common denominator ratios derived from prime numbers. I suggest you check out Just Intonation theory. The tunings are as exact today as they were hundreds/thousands of years ago.......er........you were saying?

[BlueKyne]

@rockndpop I wonder why no one ever thought to make a movie of this Epic by now. BTW, I'm diggin' that groovie ancient Lyre sound, don't forget to put that in your movie!

[johannes3ful]

That's because rockers don't understand music.

[MsGedankensindfrei]

I, too, would love to see a movie about Gilgamesh. Although this ethereal story is the oldest in our human heritage, it conflicts sharply with the dominant Judeo-Christian-Islamic belief systems which are currently prevalent throughout much of the world. The basic message of the story --- that it is futile to pine for an afterlife --- would unfortunately be horrifying to many. Too bad, really. I'd love to see who'd be cast as Ishtar!!

[Adonis251]

There was a movie in the works with Max Ryan as Gilgamesh and Leonor Varela as Ishtar back in 2005/2006 but it was soon abandoned for unknown reason.

viswiki.com/en/Gilgamesh_%28fi­lm%29

[ThePolka]

Thank you for your efforts to restore our past..

[SuperBluehaze]

amazing. beautiful; superb!

[glorplaxy]

I really love this....so much. I have watched this quite a few times already and love it more and more each time.

It would be cool to hear it in the original language, though!

[gymnastgrl1]

wow she looks funny but she does give a lot of info.

[swimming4life12]

r u doing this for homework? for social sutdies? st agnes? 6th grade?

[ncguy207]

very interesting

[pabon7]

either the stings are all fucked up, or he is not playing the music correctly, otherwise i could create better sounds from an electronic DJ program

[Amalica]

listen to yourself you moron you can create better sounds on an electronic DJ program...well no shit the lyre is 4500 years old try making better sounds on a 4500 year old electronic dj program oh wait you CANT

[pabon7]

what you said made no sense . you wanted to pick a fight? well next time say something intelligent. LOL

[knoxvilleguy2]

@Amalica Maybe, but electronic DJ programs can't replicate everything.

Maybe we should just digitize all of the world's great works of literature & art & destroy the originals as well, & make no new art unless it's on an iPad or something photoshopped. How " original ".

[Amalica]

@knoxvilleguy2 that was my point when i made the comment someone had complained that it sounded so craptacular and that he could and i quote "create better sounds from an electronic DJ program" so i said what i said because i actually appreciate the original sound

[knoxvilleguy2]

@Amalica - Okay, I didn't take your meaning. Excuse me.

[yesmanhead]

GAY

[andylowings]

...and as for the music..its even more conjectural !

A little evidence of tunings* maybe, but music.. none whatsoever, from Ur !

* So we used this sol-fa.

Andy Lowings

[andylowings]

If only we could figure out the original language. The odd words perhaps but its all largely anyone`s guess.

Andy Lowings

[anastasiaharp]

it would be very interesting to hear this epos in the original language...

[JuniusFaction]

That sounds like the best way for a man to live.

[crudometal]

it is called BALAG in sumerian

[hippojuice23]

WOW COOL! Beautifully obscure-Gilgamush hasn't got much 'mainstream' appeciation. No epic summer blockbusters yet! Thank you!

[brayharper]

Could you please point out that the stringing, tuning, and buzzing bridge of this instrument are all conjectural, as is the music being played.... we really don't have any idea of what the did or how it sounded.

Phil

[skromt]

That is a very good point. But in this particular example I think they found some simples flutes in the same dig as the lyre, which they figured could reflect the tuning of the lyre.

[MarkHarmer]

Hi there both - skromt, you put that very well. It is conjecture but there are carvings and other art showing how the instrument was carried and played, and also clay tablets advertising lyre makers etc (and also saying how much better they were than their rivals!), and as skromt mentions, the holes in the wind instruments which do give us a potential clue as to tuning. If you see the link under "more" above, you will find more there.

[fcouperin]

this is just precious!

[Zhengda10]

GIRUGAMESH

[SidewalkFrequencies]

that was a treat thank you,.

[leftysergeant]

The sound of this lyre is almost exactly the same as that of the begena used in Ethiopian Orthodox worship services.

All Western and African civilizations owe a great deal to the Sumerians and the later civilizations that arose there. Egypt under the Hyksos recieved a lot of elements of their material culture from the Levant.  The Greeks learned writing and music from the Caananites and Hebrews and Phoenecians. The resemblance between the kinnor and lyra is no accident.. It's all connected

[sanctiacobvs]

That's a funny headress :P

[leftysergeant]

That head dress was copied from one worn by a young woman buried alive with a deceased king. The entire court of a king was usually sent with him to the underworld. He maintained his power over them even in death, and there were no inconvenient former insiders to bother and plot against the new ruler.

[Th3ba1r0n]

Love the child who holds you by the hand...that is the best way for a man to live.

x3 Wonderful philosophy

[will4ward]

The one thing we in the US will never live down is the looting of Humanity's treasures at the Baghdad Museum!

Just because some shitheel from texas could "avenge" his father and get his buddies oil/defense contracts.

I should have like to see the the original Lyre- this makes me sad.

[janster200]

I have a copy of The Epic of Gilgamesh. But it's interesting to hear it accompanied with music.

[Huilifoj]

Excellent. It takes us to the old times.

Thank you.

[andylowings]

Concert tickets for the GOLD LYRE (with Greek and Roman music) now on sale £10

tel 01733 253068 or

0208 660 0192

Bolivar Hall LONDON Goodridge St (near Warren St tube)

December 5th Friday 7.30pm

[andylowings]

Hi Wind !

You are quite right..to do it in the old language would be better( though pronounciation is rather a problem ). But we did it here in English to allow people to understand the beauty of such old old words...that still ring true today.

Thank you for taking an interest.

Andy Lowings

[WindOfSilence]

For sure a great research work but I don't subscribe the recitative in english.IMO it would have been nice do it into the old language....

[MesopotamiaGod]

To the team who worked to compile this exert on the Lyre of Ur I have grown to understand that they mean to bring the history to light,Well done to you all.

ROLF Contributions to the MODERN WORLD are still there right before your eyes.BUT You have to have your eyes open to see it. The English derive from Anglo Saxons of Germania.Germania first City was TRIER, now you do your own research,i won't spoom feed any more.Thank you :)

[RolfLarsson]

I fail to see how what you said means anything at all.

[MesopotamiaGod]

How much do you know about this topic?Have u acutally taken the time to research??I do not agree with a large part of what the english did with mesopotamia.This was my original comments meaning.germany/TRIER was founded by TREBETA(look into it).And i gave you a little hint to help u see something. But u obviously missed the point. And please say something more intelligant than "but what does that mean"??? =\

[RolfLarsson]

And I don't see how Trier supposedly being the first German city (despite there being no "cities" per se in the region of Germania until Roman times) has anything to do with Babylon.

[OodCorporations]

I've heard this so many times at home, I practically know it off by heart.

[anak1]

Wow! Nice reconstruction of the Ur Lyre! :) Very earthy sound. Its interesting to compare the sound of it with Ethiopian Begena Lyre still played today.

watch?v=PxXMnIuiv38

[djypsydjazz]

By the way, that lyre is a big one. WOW

[andylowings]

The Gold Lyre of Ur came from one of the city states of Mesopotamia. It was played about 4,500 years ago and was discovered in 1929 by archaeologists.

Similar lyres are still played, even today, in the world in certain countries.

Interestingly, they cross all modern divides of religions and languages, appearing (amongst others) in Ethiopia, Sudan and even Kenya. Andy

[MesopotamiaGod]

What a dissappointment after all the knowledge that mesopotamia & the sumerians/akkadians/Assyrians/­Babylonians gave to the world, this is how the British and US repay them by stealing their history and then parading it as if their own. But then what does one do when they don't have a history of their own.

[melammu]

"parading it as their own"?

[RolfLarsson]

Hah. I don't see any "sumerians/akkadians/Assyrians­/Babylonians" reclaiming their past. But they can't, anyway, because they haven't existed for over two thousand years. So leave the British alone, they're the ones who bothered to dig around and bring back the Mesopotamian past. It was Europeans who did the digging, translating, and publishing, hence they have more rights to the material than anyone else, so stop whining.

(And England has a very rich history, by the way)

[MesopotamiaGod]

I'm NOT whining.We haven't existed,is that what you believe.Then take that watch on your wrist off,as the sexigesamal system is from there,the glass you look through your house/car windows is from there also and the wheels on your car TOO! And many MANY MORE INVENTIONS!!

[RolfLarsson]

Give it up, bro.

(by the way, Sumerians didn't invent the wheel)

[MesopotamiaGod]

And you believe that babylon doesn't exist, mate your eyes must really be closed. Who where the people of babylon?Now think of all the nations that started there, you believe they don't exist?Your either too dumb, or just blind. "They run every aspect of the world you know today". But they don't exist.Thats exactly what a blind man says. Keep living in your fantasy world boy!!

[RolfLarsson]

There is no such country/empire/people known nowadays as Babylonian, no.

[MesopotamiaGod]

Just what happened to Babylon? There is no record of their fall. THERES A REASON FOR THIS!!Because they never fell. Just went covert.But you are right they don't exist. Oh, just one last thing... where does the vatican ideology come from? And the fact that they own more realestate than anyother business "TODAY" is an accident and no they don't have control.Still going to argue this point? And there's much much more, if you think they don't so be it!!But you are wrong, really really wrong.

[RolfLarsson]

You are a quack. They got taken over by the Assyrians and then the Persians, if I'm not mistaken.

And you've given no proof, sir, so don't challenge me to stop arguing. I've got history on my side, you've got strange nostalgia/delusions on your side.

[MesopotamiaGod]

LOL :) Rolf you are a funny man.Assyrian history i know all to well,the year was 612BC when the medes,persians and Babylonians attacked Assyria/Nineveh.AND YES YOU R MISTAKEN!!Hahah... Nineveh is today called Mosul. Ironically the same name given to the River in Trier. ie.Mosul River. How about that for ya. Hahaha Please mate, your a glutten for punishment. But funny. Swedish Larson :)

[RolfLarsson]

You're not making sense, and are not supporting your claim with any facts.

[TuckerD92]

...went covert? My friend you obviously have a passion fot the past, but for some reason you strike me as someone who reads a lot about conspiracies. They may not have been conquered, but they fell none the less. All civilizations eventually fade and die. They had a good run man... but they are gone and are not in control. People say there is a group in control so they can have a scapegoat to shrug off the world's problems on. Believe what you will my good man but keep civil about it

[Alastair]

While I don't agree with much of what MesopotamianGod is saying, I think it would be incorrect to say that these people don't exist.  There are likely to have left plenty of living descendants. It would be better to claim that their civilization doesn't exist, which is what I think you meant. I believe all human history belongs to all humans. So no specific group should have rights to the past of mesopotamia.

[zzcoolfun]

can you please post others aswell?

[MarkHarmer]

Hi - we will post others as we make them.

I don't know who looted the museum - but it seems that the US didn't do all they could to prevent the goods being taken. But then I wasn't there and can't imagine the chaos of being in a place like that in the middle of a war.

[SeadogDriftwood]

"The original instrument was destroyed when the Baghdad museum was looted..."

It bloody figures. Thanks so VERY MUCH, you dollar-eyed assholes who stole 5000 years of history. Please excuse my crudity - I feel that genteel speech is wasted on thieveslike those.

As for the performance: The sound of the harp is not at all what I expected! It sounds more like a sitar or tamboura than a modern harp. But it's really beautiful!

[djypsydjazz]

Agree with you there. They did steal five thousand years of history.

The lyre's sound is probably the way it is because it has an immense string scale and it is prone to that sound. (which I love) I got to build one of these things. Are there plans for it anywhere? ;-)

[ABookwormAndProud]

@SeadogDriftwood As an American, I deeply, deeply apologize. And you're right, we deserve no respect to what we've done to your past and your people....

[25395464]

I can't think of a better way to rob the text of its power than to have it recited by some dowdy old British woman (with accompanying accent) in a silly wig and costume, delivering it with passionlessly precise, stiff annunciation. She seems bored, or like she has no idea what she's reading.

Did she blush when she said to "give your wife pleasure"? Pathetic.

What a disappointment.

[MarkHarmer]

Hi there 25395464 - we're experimenting with all sorts of ways of using this amazing instrument. Not sure about the wig but I know the headdress is a copy of grave goods found alongside the original of the lyre at Ur. Worthwhile looking up the pipes and lyre piece, which is different again - and we have two dance interpretations. All suggestions welcome!

[MarkHarmer]

I also think you could learn some manners. I notice the negative comments often come from people who haven't actually contributed videos of their own to youtube. Your own profile is completely empty. It would be great to see your own creativity, not just your criticism.

[blastingcaps]

haha

[romanowskicm]

And how can we prove either?

Your ancestors probably werent the elite of their time

But what g-d gave us is a g-d to obey and fear in heaven, and gave us the power to bow to no man on earth.

[romanowskicm]

Either way we look at this its still a a beautiful instrument

[GooseHuntCunt]

This is an absolutely fabulous telling. though the trgedy is that the real Babylonians and Sumarians nowadays are forgetting there own history, due to the wave of Arabisation that spread through iraq about 1000 years ago. Now most incorrectly trace there roots as Arabs, though they stretch was father back in history.

[kimmijo]

Lovely, thank you

[Bridge2Obscurity]

If one studies Sumerian lore and writings, one recognizes definite parallels between it and that of the bible. Text far older than the epic of Gilgamesh? I don't believe there's anything written that goes back that far. Even the old testament is comparably new.

[romanowskicm]

incorrect the tanach or torah what you call th old testament is a collection of books and genesis is far older. sumerians were pagan

far cry from tanach sir

[GooseHuntCunt]

romanowskicm: I totally agree. The Sumarians had already established cities before God made the world according to Genisis, so it has nothing to do with modern religion. The Sumarians invented writing and civilisation, and were much older than Genisis. How else can it be writien before?

[romanowskicm]

Im disagreeing with you

Maybe the collection of books that comprised the Tanach werent assembled until after the Epic but the book af genesis is OLDER than this

WORD IS WORD. Stop looking for truth with pagans

[GooseHuntCunt]

Those pagans were my ancestors ;). Genesis might have been a story, passed by word of mouth and inaccurate before (though I doubt it), but definately not a book. Book needs writing. Those 'pagans' invented writing, and that was one of the first stories. Plus, according to Christianity, the events of Genesis took place about 4500bc. That story was writen about 5000bc! How does what ou are saying work out?

[ApollosKourros]

I can see you know very little about the first civilizations on this earth, who were all pagan, and among whom the Israelites are not numbered, being a later migration that had to displace other peoples who were there first. The Epic of Gilgamesh is the oldest written story we've ever uncovered. I had thought that the antiquity of Mesopotamia was common knowledge.

[andylowings]

Thank you Atemporal for your comment.

We chose the location as it was a nice sunny day and it was silent and quiet in the church next door to here.. The religous tone is true enough ! ..The text we chose comes from 2,500 BC... yet is also included in the Bible of 1,500 years later! Andy

[rakkav]

This is a sacred/epic text all right, and all such texts were sung in antiquity. It is far from accurate though to say this one is "included in the Bible" -- there are striking commonalities, but also striking differences. A text from Ebla, far older than this Epic, is far closer to Genesis in its creation theology than the Epic is.

[tkharpflt]

This is a very good reproduction following ancient Greece way, isn't it?

The sound of Lyre is really fantastic, and very good accompaniment for poetry reading!!

Also, I was very surprised that my teacher was playing this Lyre.

(So, I studied Clarsach under Mr. Bill Taylor!)

[Atemporal]

I'm d'accord with everything but the très religious tone, love the sound of the pipe though, really fantastic.

[espiel]

Haunting , and beautifully performed!

[juha00juha]

Brilliant. The dude with the excotic lyre was really rocking!

[rakkav]

I'm glad I found this -- I've been wanting to hear how this lyre sounded for some time. Maybe one day I can get to the UK and accompany some of Suzanne Haik-Vantoura's work with it!

[ZavalaSingleton]

It has such an odd sound! It sounds like a sitar, I thought it would sound like a harp.

Love the recitation, such good advice.

[sango1202]

Its A Good Video And I lub tha things says Part of the story but good video !! Holla baq Maria Sango1202

[donnykaraoke]

wot on earth is she talking about

[MarkHarmer]

Well, it's part of the Epic of Gilgamesh - basically, saying you should eat, drink and be merry! Bits of this appear in many religious texts.

[Klezfiddle1]

Absolutely amazing!Tell me more about how tunings were devised for the lyre?Is the soundboard of wood,or taut animal hide?Keep these wonderful videos pouring in!

[MarkHarmer]

Thank you! The string tuning is based on pipes which were found in the same grave. The position of the holes in these metal pipes gives us some idea of the relative pitch of the notes used in the scale - but only an approximate one. The bridge is made from parchment - I will let you know more when I get a picture of it! We're uploading a piece with the pipes as soon as I've edited it...

[farhadz]

Thats awesome!

[MarkHarmer]

Thank you - it's an amazing looking instrument. Look out for our "Duo" video coming shortly, with the pipes and lyre.

[DukeRightious]

Great video! Thanks for posting it...

[zciweslab]

Bill Taylor? no wonder the lyre suddenly sounds like a bray harp! what brought about this rethinking of the sound?

[MarkHarmer]

Ayub Ogada, who played this instrument in Cornwall UK for Live8 this year, suggested a parchment bridge for the Lyre - which actually makes sense given the size of this instrument as it adds a bit of resonance to the sound. I can see why Bill Likes the sound of this, and maybe that's what attraced him to the harp. Bill is also very interested in researching the tunings for this instrument, but the fact that it sounds similar to a bray harp is just a coincidence, I think!

[rakkav]

Presumably you've considered the tunings documented in the famous Babylonian and Hurrian cuneiform tablets? Of course there are others I could propose to you...

[troubleclef]

truer words were never spoke!

[Tahllulah]

Wow!! Thank you for this treasure.

[MarkHarmer]

A pleasure - thank you!!