The endangered Australian dingo (wild dog)

[AustOpinion55]

They kill native animals & Kangaroos. In the last 300 years nearly half of the native animals of Australia have gone extinct, & the Dingo's are attributed to a lot of them. They don't fit into the Habitat. They all should be killed or moved.

[AustOpinion55]

Why would you want to protect these aninmals. There not native animals they where bought her from Asia. Their not the Australian Dingo. They Kill Kangaroos, they compete with native animals, and they can injure people.

There not native animals, the government should have them all killed.

[MauroRincon]

@AustOpinion55 They were brought 3000 years ago, they were already in equilibrium with the surrounding environment. How should it be here for it to be native? are British more native?

[caityceratops]

How can Roger Roach claim to work for the National Park Services? National Parks are supposed to preserve Australian fauna and flora. Last I knew Dingoes came under that while sheep never have.

[inotaishu1]

@caityceratops Well as far as I know once a dingo leaves a national park it officially ceases to be a dingo and becomes a wild dog under the law and therefore can be shot. In addition for many it doesn't matter how long the dingo has lived in Australia, since it was brought here by humans respectively because it is a dog it is not considered natural by them.

[TheJoelamouche]

Fuck Roger Roach !

How can the governement havn't already voted a protection law ???

[inotaishu1]

Did he say "ancient ancestor of the Indian wolf" at 11:14?

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 Yes, it's thought that they derived from the Indian wolf.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII I know that but the video made a mistake then, because it says that the dingo is the ancestor of the Indian wolf. I assume that with "Indian wolf" they mean canis lupus pallipes since that one was very often regarded as the main ancestor of all dogs (dingos included).

Anyway they have made a pretty big mistake there. One they should have never made.

[inotaishu1]

The dingo is not a species, if the rate of "hybridization" is really so high and the mixing is happening so readily there is no way you can justify that they are a different species.

One breeding time per year is also known for Baenji's, Indian Pariah dogs, West Siberian Laikas, Akitas and Tibetan Mastiffs. Are these not dogs?

And it is a fact that even similar sized dogs have different sized teeth.

Some dogs have a scent gland on the tail and others don't.

Dingos can bark, even wolves can.

[jo902100]

guys you probably should watch this catalyst story titled Dingo Secrets

[kitiyana]

there are pure dingoes on the east coast that are not on Fraser Island... that is a fallacy that aids the Farmers Federation aided by Govt Regulations to continue baiting... it is wrong to maintain and promote that false opinion.

[ghune]

The apex predator of Australia. They are very important.

[MrPressThat]

So that guy at 4:10 can still walk freely ?

[moviesforrandy]

beautiful animal. every country has it's endangered animals. we humans can be so thoughtless someties. but to build a 9000 mile fence someone cares. how are the dingo's doing in 2011?

[inotaishu1]

@moviesforrandy All in all pretty well. They are just considered "endangered" because many of them according to current statements have no exclusive Australian ancestry and are therefore not good enough in the eyes of many conservationists. Shooting these dogs is then justified with conserving biodiversity but its actually just the maintainance of the nature-culture seperation and economical concerns.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 Oh sorry, I didn't read what you said. Yeah, that was a mistake. The Indian wolf is an ancestor of the dingo, not the other way around. =p

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII No problem. Albeit that obvious mistake makes me question the validity of the rest of the video.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 Yeah, well I would think that everything else is fairly correct. I mean they're a threatened species due to hunting and breeding with dogs and all.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII Quite the contrary. There are neither a species (the supposed degree of interbreeding with other dogs is simply to high to justify that), nor is Fraser Island the only population with "pure" dingoes on the eastern shore, nor are they a breed. One breeding cycle is not unique to the dingo among domestic dogs, nor is the scent gland. They can bark (which is already suggested by the barkhowl-statement), which is proven by CSIRO as well as research done up here in Germany.

[inotaishu1]

@inotaishu1 It is also incorrect that one dog will draw other dogs in. The opposite is correct, which was proven via studies on ´wild dogs (as well as wolves and coyotes). When you kill them and there is still a breeding population in the National Park the emptied territory will be filled by dogs searching for a new one and of course they will compete and therefore you have more dogs in that area than when you had done nothing.

[inotaishu1]

@inotaishu1 70 kg is actually very unusual for wild dogs (according to Daniel Jenkins they may have up to two dogs per year with that size down there), most are about dingo-size and dingoes would attack sheep as well. Dingoes can weigh much more than 19 kg, they found an urban one with 27 kg. More food over the last several decades as reason for bigger size is ignored.

There were only a handful of high-profile attack-cases and dingoes don't go "extinct" since they have plenty of descendants.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 Well a pure dingo can become extinct. Hybrids aren't dingoes, when we say the barkhowl, it's still not a normal bark and wolves have been known to make similar noises aswell. The only domestic dogs that have scent gland are primative breeds, which are closer related to the wolf, then say a poodle.

They are a species, although in the wild people often misinterpret hybrids as dingoes, using DNA testing we can clearly gather which dingoes are pure, and which aren't.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII What you call "extinction" is pseudo-extinction, at most. One version of a spe cies mating with another. Think about it, by that logic we should forbid mixing of Europeans and Aborigines.

You cannot have a barkhowl without a bark and what exactly is a "normal" bark for you? That seems to be the problem when people "defend" the dingoes not.dog status, they have no definition what exactly is a bark, or a dog for that matter.

[inotaishu1]

@inotaishu1 And you still said it that some domestic dog have a scent gland and despite what you think that is not an exclusive trait of "primitive" breeds. It seems as though you forget that most breeds aren't even 300 years old.

By what definition are they a seperate species?

The DNA test has been questioned from the start:

1) There was no quarantee of the status of the reference dingoes (they came from the South East).

2) Microsatellites are better for implying family relations.

[inotaishu1]

@inotaishu1 Furthermore Jones at the start of the 90s already critizised that the skull meassurements were useless to categorize the Victorian highland population.

Dogs had been traded with SE Asia for centuries, which draws the concept of purity into question.

And the dingoes used fro reference were only very few and did not represent the full range of Australian dingoes.

Sorry but I think that your opinion is based on conservation wishes and not evidence.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 Ok, here's an example back in the 1950's they crossed 4 Carpathian Wolves with 58 German Shepherds to produce the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog, although that breed is technically a cross of two other things, it's still now a pure breed. That's how all domestic dogs came to be, and therefore how can we possibly have a breed at all using your logic.

Firstly we must start with the origins of the dingo, so we've established they're primative. -

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII Actually no, that is not how they came to be. The sort of breeding you mention did not come up in great numbers prior to the Victorian area. Before that only high cultures were able to use such a way of difficult breeding. For the most part it was rather a using what was there and breeding for function not fashion over a long time. As an example, the border collie was originally even more diverse than today since it was a name for a dog with certain herding qualities.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 Dingoes weren't bred by humans it's immportant to realise that. The dingo is a primative species.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII And you think Pariah dogs were bred by humans? You think the feral dogs of the Gallapgos were bred by humans? Or the street dogs of Moscow? Were mustangs or the Cretan goat? Where the wild hogs of the USA bred? Are they primitive species in your eyes as well?

And again, you failed to state what makes the dingo a seperate species in your eyes.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 Local variations which make the dingo unique to Australia. Would you like to argue with the CSIRO? Because from what your saying, it sounds like the dingo should be under the familiaris catagory, and if that is your case, than you're very mistaken.

Dingoes, wolves, they're almost the same thing..just different in appearance.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII Actually there are dogs in SE ASia, Africa, India and Americas who look very similar to dingoes. And if you haven't noticed many scienticist do categorize the dingo under familiaris and if they use dingo they still say that it is a dog.

And why I am mistaken? Because so far you don't base your statements on evidence. You fail to recognize the proven differences between dingo and wolf.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 Scientists say that the dingo, if had been domesticated would of been somwhere in the middle of the line between wolf and domestic dog. But the dingo had to rely strongly on their wolf instinct in order to survive through thousands of years of natural selection, thus making any kind of domestication in them vannish, and the pure wild dingo of today is now very wolf like in behaviour.

It is because of those reasons, that scientists classify the dingo as a subspecies of the wolf.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII Well the characteristics of the domestic dog are when compared to the Eurasian grey wolf: 30 % lower relative brain size, reduced facial expression, reduced display behavior, reduced social differentiation, tending more towards a phonetic communciation, 1 year round virility of the males, hypertrophied tail stance (sable or curled tail)´and smaller teeth. And the dingo shows all of them.

In addition they have the ability to read human social cues and become tame very easily.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII Furthermore scientists classify dingoes differently with no consensus on taxonomy. Read "Wild dog dogma" and "demonising the dingo" if you don't believe me. Furthermore the subspecies category is at best hazy. Read Corbett's book from 2001 if you don't understand the problem he showed it very clearly.

And what exactly is wolf-like in your eyes? Pack-living? Hunting? Howling? Infanticide? One breeding pair? Sorry, but all of this occurs among the domestic dog. So what is it?

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 I own 1 dingo and 2 Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs, the Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs are much more closely related to the wolf than a dingo. Yet they act no where near as close to a wolf as my dingo does.

A domesticated dog is one that can easily work with humans, has lower levels of testosterone and can be trained. All those things you will not find in a dingo.

I think you need to stop this arguement, your making yourself look quite stupid. I'll ask you this though, What is a dingo?

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII So you own one. So what? And have you any proof that your wolf-dogs are closer to wolves after all that art. selection?

And even wolves can be trained and even dingoes, or how do you think those people from the Western Dingo Association make the dingoes do all that stuff in their videos? There are even dingoes used as sheep-dogs. A dog that can easily work with humans? Many livestock guard. dogs are supposed to work on their own.

You present no proof for your statements.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII And have you ever heard about something called individual personalities? Do you think all dingoes act the same. And you haven't even said what wolfish behavior is in your eyes and you accuse me of making myself look stupid? At least I ground my argument in data and not assumption and prejudice.

What have you provided so far? Anything. What are your statements based on? Why are dingoes not domestic dog in your eyes and why a seperate species?

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII And for your question:

The dingo is a variation of the domestic dog that lives in Australia and SE Asia. It became feral thousands of years ago and today lives mostly indpendent in large areas of its distribution. On average dingoes have one breeding cycle and a year round virility of the males. Sometimes dingo-females have a second heat-cycle under captive conditions. Dingos are usually of slender build and have a sabled tail. The current most common color is ginger to yellow.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 - Thought to of either originated from the Indian or Arbabian wolf. It's also thought they they were domesticated by people of South-East Asia. It's still not know how they managed to get to Australia for sure, but it's between 4000-1200 years ago. The thousands of years that the dingo had, resulted in it reverting back to a fully wild state. It also adapted to the Australian climate, and is now a unique animal to Australia. There's the northern, desert and alpine dingoes.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII Dingoes most likely came with seafarers due to the long waterway, if you call that into question you must also call into question e.g. how pigs came to South East Asia. This is supported by the fact of parasites coming from kangaroos and later spreading to dogs of Australia and South East Asia as well as Dreamings and archaeological evidence. Despite living in the wild or at least semi-wild state, the dingo still has the same physical characteristics all other domestic dogs have

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII Northern, desert and alpine dingo have already been disproven to be anything more than local variations.

In addition you did not answer what makes them a seperate species in your eyes.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 We can still gather the purity of a dingo by the skull size, DNA markers etc.

Well if there is no such thing as a bark-howl, then dingoes do not bark. As you will never see a dingo barking in the same way as a domestic dog, and if you do see that..then it's not a pure dingo. As I said before, wolves make similar noises, but at first they can sound like an adrupt bark, but it quickly changes into a long monontonous howl.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII Are you even reading what I type?

Jones already stated in the 90s that the Victorian wild dog population could not be distinguished by skull size because all of their skulls were outside the range of dingoes, hybrids and other dogs used by Corbett. Wilton's test was criticized for only referring to relations and not purity and not encompassing the actual dingo population (e.g. the Fraser Island population has genetic markers not found in his reference group).

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII I said that you cannot have a bark-howl without barking. And have you ever heard a wolf-bark?

I can guarantee you that they are very loud. Look at "Viking Wilderness" and you can hear European wolves bark. Or the episode Dire Wolf of Prehistoric predators, you can hear wolves bark there. There is also film material of the Druid pack of Yellowstone barking.

And since we're at it: how does a domestic dog bark? Are you even aware of the variation in barking of domestic dogs?

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 Now out of Savolainen's tests, there is reason to believe that dingoes are direct descendents of the Indian wolf, and were not domesticated at all. It is widely and wrongly said by the media that they were domesticated, when there are many reasons to prove that they weren't infact domesticated.

Now, if there was any domestication that had occured in the dingo, it was never fully domesticated.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII And what are other domestic dogs descended from? Did they descend from foxes or what? I know the paper you mentioned and it stated that the dingo had split from other dogs, not that it is something different. Furthermore there is also evidence of partial ancestry from chinese wolves (like some other examined dogs) in later examinations.

Furthermore what is a fully domesticated dog in your eyes? Or a domesticated dog in general?

And what are your "reason to prove"? State them!!

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 "The charateristics of the domestic dog are when compared to the Eurasian grey wolf: 30% lower relative brain size" What are you talking about? German Shepherds and poodles are both domestic dogs, yet do you think they have the same size brain? So how can you possibly say that domestic dog's brains are 30% smaller.

Secondly, dingoes are smaller than wolves, so they're not going to have the same size brain.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII It is called "relative brain" size NOT actual brain size. Seriously, you are a dog-owner and you don't even know the basics?

And for your information: dingoes are only smaller than the so-called northern wolves. The Southern wolves are often about the same weight. Only the legs might be longer.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 You're one of the most arrogant people I've ever come accross.

How do I know that my Wolfdogs are closer to wolves? Because I've got FCI Pedigree papers, which states that they're pure.

Ok, I don't think you understand anything about zoology, a feral dog is, Cannis lupus familiaris. A dingo is Cannis lupus dingo, which obviously shows, that the dingo has to relation to a domestic dog.

Your facts are also wrong, dingo hybrids are used as working dogs, not dingoes.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII And these FCI papers are based on genetic testing? Or do they simply state that your dogs are 30% wolf? If yes how do they know? Pedigree? That is not reliable since inheritence doesn't work like that. In addition Czechs have been bed to be more manageable. So again, how do you know?

Hybrid dingoes are used as working dogs, but also some pure ones. And do you really think people would openly advertize that given the current AU laws?

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 Ok give me a link to where pure dingoes are used as working dogs. They're illegal to export out of Australia, most farmers here want to shoot them. Also it takes a lot of time just to get them to respond to humans let alone, become a working dog.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII According to research up here they get tame very easily and according to research in Australia where nine were tested they respond to human cues.

Anyway links don't work so just google "Dingo sheep dog rural online" and you should find at least one page. And the Western Australian Dino Association claims the same on their page. I also have some reports in books but this won't help here so all I can present are internet links.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 The Czechoslovakian Woldog was bred in 1950's. I have pedigree papers, that show all the generations from the wolf to my dog. You're an idiot, stop talking about things you clearly have no idea of.

In Australia, the largest dingo is the Alpine varient, dogs in SE Asia don't have double coats either.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII That simply shows, if at all, that no other dog lines were brought into the line that led to your dogs, that does not say how much specific wolf-DNA there still is in them. And this doesn't come from me but from a recognized breeder at the FCI two years ago to which I personally talked.

And what is the double coat statement based on? State your sources or at least hint to them. How do you want anybody to believe you if you cannot present the source of your statements?

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 I'm going to stop this arguement. Your an idiot, and even though the evidence is all around you, you still go on with your stupid parade.

You even say that my Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs don't have wolf blood in them? Trust me, I only need to look at them to tell if they're pure or not.

Secondly, think about it...in SE Asia it's warm and tropical, you wont get dogs with double coats idiot.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII Simply insulting me does not make you right. I never insulted you and I stated the basis for my argumentation.

Looks are deceiving, I saw halfbreed wolfdogs were you saw nothing and dogs with no wolf-blood who looked totally wolf?

And your last statement has the same flaw like the rest: No source. from my perspective you could just have made it all up. When you presented something it was just single cases, no comparative data.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 I'm still waiting......

I think it's safe to agree that you know nothing about the dingo. Your arugement is made up on a bunch of lies and exagerations, and you've probably never even been within 10 metres of a dingo.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII I cannot give you a link with several dingoes working as sheep dogs here because it is not technically possible. I told you were you can find it. And you haven't told me what video you are referring to either.

I told you that the W-A. Dingo Association even has photographic evidence, more I cannot do for you here.

And actually I came within two meters of a male dingo and his seven pups and even made body contact (casual greeting) with an NGSD so at least that I can claim.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 You did not tell me where I can find it, you directed me to a page of a dingo puppy that the owners hoped to train into a sheep-dog. As I said, when we look back at your original arguement you said "Dingoes are used as sheep-dogs"

Now you've just admitted it's not "tehnically possible" to give me a link to a page which back ups your lies, and do you know why that is? Because they are lies.

You're full of lies, you've now lost all credibility.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII You mean you cannot find the page of the Western Australian Dingo Association?

And it is not technically possibly to give you a link in a comment because youtube doesn't allow it. Try posting a comment with a link and it won't work and I doubt that youtube works differently where you are.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 Ahh the WA Dingo association. That is one dog, you didn't say "There is a dingo being used as a sheep-dog" You said "There are DINGOES being used as sheep-dogs" Now I'll let you off with this one. Also don't you think the fact that only known person who uses a dingo is a sheep-dog is a wildlife conservationist? If dingoes were good at it, you would get farmers using them. Farmers hate dingoes as dingoes eat sheep in the wild.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII Well, I gave you two examples, that counts as dingoes, and as I stated these are only the examples from the internet. They way you acted stating examples from books seemed to be of no use.

It wouldn't matter how good dingoes are at it, most farmers would probably refuse them on principle simply because of the reason you mentioned. That part of the dingo-discurs has barely anything to do with logic, but rather with economic interests and ideology.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 Now given you so kindly directed me to the WA Dingo Association, notice what it says below? Under "Myth #3"

"Because dingoes still retain most characteristics present in Indian wolves, it is also highly unlikely that they were subjected to any significant form of domestication that would warrant labelling them as "feral". Dingoes truly are Australia's own form of wolf.

Well there you go, your own site that you used to back up your statement, proves you wrong!

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII Just because the WA is right on one regard doesn't mean that they are right with everything. And I was fully aware that you would come up with that, the first time you actually stated a source I might add. But the WA also has on their site that the Aborigine and the dingo were "the first mammals on this continent of marsupials". Not really a credible statement isn't it.

[inotaishu1]

@inotaishu1 the WA usually doesn't cite their sources, but since this time they actually provided photographic evidence makes that statement at least worth of consideration. In addition using the dingo as a sheep-dog might actually run counter to their goal of preserving the dingo as a wild animal because then their claims could be considered irrelevant. Due to this reason it wouldn't make sense that they just made the sheep-dog story up, because if it were fraud, it could be disproven easily.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 In regards to them being Australia's first mammals, yes that would be correct. They're not including humans, so dingoes were. It's important to realise that Australia's native animals are mainly all marsupials. Even the Tasmania Tiger (Thylacine) was a marcupial. Other mammals in Australia came much later than the dingo, mostly at European arrival.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII How can you possibly justify a comment like that?

Monotremes and marsupials are mammals as well. Dingoes and humans wouldn't even be the first placental mammals in Australia since bats and rodents arrived there millions of years before them.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 It doesn't matter, the dingo would not make a good sheep dog. Sheep dogs are bred by humans to be responsive. The Australian kelpie which is a sheep dog has some dingo in it, but they had to mix the dingo with a domestic dog in order to get something that would be responsive as a sheep dog.

You would also have to implement some kind of electric collar, or have 3m high fences, as dingoes are known to escape.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII This part of the discussion is obviously pointless to continued since you obviously lack the knowledge of the basic requirements for a sheep dog and you obviously fail to acknowledge individual differences.

And based on your behavior so far I could give you a library full of evidence against your statements and you would still refuse them.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 I know marsupials come under the catagory of mammals, but in the sense I'm using..I'm talking about mammals that don't use pouches. You obviously know nothing about sheep dogs and dingoes if you think a dingo would make a good sheep dog.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 I was going to stop it, then I saw your lies. There is no evidence to say that the dingo is a capable sheep dog. The person who's using a dingo as a sheep dog, isn't doing it for his sheep..he's trying to show that wild animals can do that kind of thing. As I said he's using a fox aswell.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII So you are concentrating on one single arguable point now?

You already accused me of lying long before that and therefore also accussed Zimen, Corbett, Jones, Newsome, Jenkins, Hemmer, Mech, Wilton, Savolainen, Bloch, Trumler and Purcell of lying. So don't justidfy your behavior with that one topic and you just said yourself that dingoes can be used as sheep dog.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 Never accused Savolainen of lieng, as he admitted that it was a possibility that the dingoes that went to Australia hadn't been domesticated. Dingoes can't be used as effective sheep dogs, you would have to be an idiot to use a dingo over a kelpie or a German Shepherd as a sheep dog. While dingoes are very loyal to their owners, it takes a very expirienced dog owner to get their dingo to treat them as the Alpha.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII That you even come up with the "Alpha" proofs that you are not up to date in that regard. And Savolainen also stated that the dingoes mtDNA fell right into the main clade of domestic dog DNA. Will you come up with another excuse for that as well?

Do you even have any definition of dingo, domestic dog, wolf, behavior and the like? And either start using the basis for your statements or leave it!

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 Technically no Dingoes do not bark, compare a dingo to any dog of modern day and you'll notice a difference. The fact that dingoes use howling as their major communcation proves that they're closer to the wolf than the domestic dog.

If you would like to know some more about the dingo, seeings as you have this unhealthy obsession with them, type in "dingo.livingin-Australia" to google.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII I already knew that site for years and dismissed it as unreliable. I concentrated on the works of the people actually going out there in the field and doing research.

Basenjis, Husky's and Malamutes do the same regarding barking and howling so by your logic they would be wolves as well.

And since you are adamant about the dingoes "do not bark" stuff you obviously don't believe CSIRO.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 I don't know anything about Basenjis, but I know Huskies and Malamutes do not act like dingoes when it comes to barking and howling. My friend owns an Alaskan Malamute and when my dingo started growling at the Malamute it went on this barking rage, I've seen huskies do the same. That's a massive lie and you know it, I've never heard my dingo bark once. He howls and makes other strange yelping noises but never barks.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII The person that accuses me of lying about the bark-topic accuses CSIRO and Purcell of lying about barking. And mark your own words. You stated that you believe CSIRO.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 Watch the video "Czechoslovakian Wolfdog vs Husky" You'll see that husky barking it's head off at the CWD, you will never see a dingo acting like that, the dingo would probably be doing the same as the Czechoslovakian.

Given you made that statement, I now want you to send me a link to a video of a dingo barking like the husky in the video I directed you to is.

[IIproductionsII]

@IIproductionsII Wait sorry, It's actually a Malamute. Type in "Czechoslovakian Wolfdog vs Malamute"

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII And what are you trying to proof? That was one Czech and one Malamute. Searching for barking wolfodgs and you find them as well.

And why should I sent you a link? For what purpose? You rejected all data and evidence so far, why should I believe that anything could change your mind now?

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 Well Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs can bark, but they don't do it often, likewise with howling they don't howl often either.

Send me a link to where you noticed a dingo barking as much as that malamute was, otherwise how could you make a statement like that? WERE YOU LIENG AGAIN?

[IIproductionsII]

@IIproductionsII Yet again, type in "Husky barking to go on walk"

I can't respond to any of your replies untill you stop lieing. Now show me a video of a dingo, and it better look like a dingo barking like the malamute and husky in the videos I've directed you to.

So come kid, show me this video.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII I never lied even once. If you ask me you simply didn't like what you heard. You just seem plain ignorant, which is actually worse than if you would actually be lying.

If I would be lying I wouldn't still be here. You act totally irrational and inconsistently to stay with your statements. Data and citing sources also didn't help with you. And that is why I see no point in anything further. Search for yourself, maybe that will cure you from your attitude.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 Search myself, but I'll never find any video of a dingo barking like a husky and a malamute, and do you know why? Because you made it up.

You're so stupid, you result to making things up. You have this unhealthy obsession with dingoes, I've seen the feed on your channel almost every video you comment on is about dingoes.

I can safely say yet again you've lied about something. If you can't even back it up with a video, and instead tell me to search for it...it shows your lying.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII Yo you didn't search for a video but you checked my channel?

:)

And you call me having an unhealthy obsession. :D

You accused me opf lying long before I came up with the barking topic because you didn't like it.

And for your information, I comment so often because I am interested in the topic since it's connected with way more than just zoology. Actually you sound like a prime example of the native-feral discours regarding the dingo's ambigous portrayal.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 I checked your channel to see who the retard was who was making crap about about dingoes, only to discover your some German, who tries to act like he knows about dingoes. Which clearly shows that you don't have a life.

Now, where's the link to the video? You still haven't given a link so shut the fuck up.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 I actually think the WADA is right. They admit the dingo may of gone through some kind of domestication, but if this did happen, they wouldn't of become fully domesticated. Then the thousands of years of natural selection in Australia, made the dingo have to rely on wolf instinct, and that is why dingoes act like wolves. Although not genetically a proper wolf, they are mentally.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII So the "not fully domesticated" stuff again. You never stated what "fully domesticated" actually means.

And no, dingoes are not mentally "like wolves", first because wolves act very differently as well so there is no "typical wolf" and second because there are differences in behavior between dingoes and the hithertho examined wolves.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 Look, I think I'm going to believe the CSIRO, WADA and the Australia Government over some random guy from Germany, who has probably never even touched a dingo let alone own one nor will ever own one.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII I did not expect for you to take my word for it, that's why I stated sources so often (mostly Australian ones I might add).

And since you were so adamant about dingoes not barking you obviously don't believe CSIRO since they clearly state that dingoes do bark. In addition they published papers stating that dingoes are dogs as well.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 "In addition using the dingo as a sheep-dog might actually run counter to their goal of preserving the dingo as a wild animal because then their claims could be considered irrelevant"

Also notice under the story that the man who's using a dingo as a sheep dog is also using foxes. He's not serious about it, he's just trying to show that wild animals can be worked with birds. I spose as he's working a fox as a working dog, foxes aren't wild either?

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII The ones he uses probably not anymore. And I never stated that dingoes are not capable of living in the wild I simply stated that they are domestic dogs. There is a difference.

And even if this one person would not be serious about the sheep dog thing (which you can't know since you no next to nothing about that one) others obviously are.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 Watch the Creature Features video on Dingoes, you'll see a video of wolves rotating around food.

The fact that you don't believe dingoes have a scent, shows that you know nothing about them and should shut up right now.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII Could you be a tiny bit more specific on the name? I get more than one link and video when I just use that. Are you referring to the one starting with the actor and the cat-puppet?

I believe that they have no scent? Hello? You stated it not even 15 minutes ago. Quote: "Dingoes also have no smell whatsoever unlike the average domestic dog."

Remember?

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 There are recent studies that show that dingoes have problem solving skills, which has never before been seen in any domestic dog. Go to physorg to see the story.

You've never seen northern grey wolves rotating around their kill? I doubt you've even seen a wolf! There are tons of videos out there, I'm not going to waste time giving you a link...your an idiot anyway.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII Problem solving skills have never been found in domestic dogs? If your are referring to the detour task then you obviously fail to notice that there was no mention how the test-subjects were raised. And it was just one scientifc paper on the subject.

If problem solving skills have never been found in domestic dogs, how do livestock guardian dogs manage to fend of wolves in your eyes?

Have you ever seen gray wolves rotate around their kill? I never even heard a mention of it.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII And what is the classification based on? On differences that were simply stated to be "big enough"? Morpologically a pug is more different from a husky than a dingo is, but pug and husky are classified into one subspecies and the dingo into another.

DNA and morphology clearly state that the dingo is a domestic dog. I already gave you the reasons for this classification, while the c.l. dingo classification, well I never found any objective reasons for that.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 In regards to saying all dingoes are different, well yes they are, but they wont all be wild. That's an idiotic statement, it's like saying I'm going to go get a lion as a pet, because just because some are wild, they're all different.

The dingo doesn't live in South-East Asia, the dingo that is in Australia, is unique to Australia, as it's adapted to the Australian enviroment. You wont get an alpine dingo in South East Asia, well the dingo would have to shrink for a start.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII According to skull measures and DNA (which you regard as reliable) dingoes exist in Thailand. Or are you saying that Corbett has erred? I admit I have my doubts about him, but DNA analyzes confirmed his assessment based on skull measurements.

And in SE Asia they often live in a communal relationship with humans, sometimes even fed and also caught and eaten. And yes they are smaller there, but inside of Australia there are also size differences.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 Dingoes eat the same way Northern Gray Wolves eat (rotating around the food) They have similar skulls to Gray Wolves, like wolves, they're smarter than dogs, they're much more pack orientated, have increased smell and are more flexible.

Now as I said, there is research to suggest that the Dingo was somewhere down the line of domestication. But is definetely more closely related to the wolf, than the domestic dog of today.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII I have never seen Northern Gray wolves rotating around their kills. I assume you are referring to when dingoes feed from,one bowl like the WADA has shown. And no their skulls are not similar to gray wolves, if it would be like that identification would be very easy. And how do you know all the rest? Who says that they are smarter and more pack orientated than all other dogs? And more flexible? Based on what? Ever proven? Ever compared?

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 You wont get domestic dogs having the alpha, beta, omega rankings, but you do get that in dingoes. They're more flexible, just do some research, they made a video about them, they're necks can semi rotate 360 degrees. Dingoes also have no smell whatsoever unlike the average domestic dog.

The fact that you deny that dingoes skulls aren't the same, shows that you don't know very much about the dingo.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII According to Mech et al. the ranking you state is very rare in wild wolves and more typical for captive wolves. And yes you can get that ranking among dogs as well both pet and feral. And what video precisely?

"give me a link"

If they have no smell why do they sniff each other so often or follow their tracks?

They are not the same skulls, Corbett stated it, also Zimen, Newsome and Hemmer. What is your basis to question that? What data can you present for your claims?

[IIproductionsII]

@IIproductionsII Did you not just read what I said, give me a link to where multiple dingoes are currently being used as sheep dogs.

I'm not going to respond to any of your other points untill you give me this link backing up your original statement that "There are even dingoes used as sheep-dogs"

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII And I told you that the Western Australian Dingo Association claims the same on their site and even has a photo. And they have even less reason for stating false claims in that regard since it actually runs counter to their own goals of having the dingo as a wild animal. More I cannot do for you at the moment. If that and my data is not enough for you I can't do anything.

[IIproductionsII]

@inotaishu1 Give me a link to where you found out that Dingoes are currently being used as sheep dogs, tell me what to type in so I can find this page. I question why you told that "dingoes are being used as sheep-dogs" when you can't back this up, where did you find it out? Because it seems to me that you made it up.

Oops, not looking too good for you now is it.

[inotaishu1]

@IIproductionsII And what research exactly? You always say scientists and research but never who and never any concrete data. You don't say where you have it from and basically you just repeat that they are different but you never say why. And you never say why these differences are sufficient enough. You never answered any of the important questions, just the random ones without any real significance.

Now why is that I ask myself.