A biblical look at Rob Bell's "Bullhorn" Part 2

[diewahrheitistnochda]

another Warlock, trying to destroy real Christians...

[drmark1956]

Thank you so much for making this video! Bell is a theological neophyte. It is obvious that he has had no theological training.... at least not from a reputable school. Keep up the good work and keep on exposing the false teacher.

Dr. E

[gtrfurby]

the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I [am] the LORD your God.

[thelostchordband]

WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!

Mathew 5:43-48 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven.

It goes on like that if you'd care to read the scriptures. I am pretty sure this is what Rob Bell was talking about. Please don't try to distort scriptures when someone is clearly spreading a message of love and peace coming from Jesus.

[truth4U2C]

@thelostchordband I'm not sure I get what your saying here, let me know by using the time marker on the vid to help me know what your commenting on.... I just listen to one of your bands songs, you guys have a great sound!  Peace...

[jakethesly1]

The point of Rob Bell's message is that scaring people into Christianity by condemning their actions is ineffective. We shouldn't live a Christian life just so we are saved from hell. Christianity isn't just following the rules so we get the benefit of going to heaven. IT IS ACCEPTING THE EVERLASTING AND UNENDING LOVE OF GOD, THROUGH FORGIVENESS THAT SETS US FREE! IT IS NOT OUR OWN FEAR OF HELL THAT SETS US FREE! GODS LOVE IS WHAT DRAWS US TO HIM, NOT OUR OWN FEAR OF HELL.

[MayakuCreep]

@jakethesly1 You're right. Fear is short-lived. It's only a physiological reaction. If you get cancer and you fear it may be malignant tumor, then the doctor comes to you and says it's benign, then your fear tends to be gone very shortly after. Fear(s) of Hell doesn't last, but the understanding that God's love is unconditional and he will always be there.. Now, that lasts for a very long time.

[droptozro]

@MayakuCreep

The EVERLASTING Gospel preaching in Revelation... is "Fear God and worship Him"---so no, I'd disagree... if you're really a Christian, the gospel you will hear for the rest of eternity is to "Fear Him"...

Bells a heretic, and a snake when it comes to answering questions...

Good job video poster exposing the man.

[MayakuCreep]

@droptozro Perhaps you misunderstand the New Testament, entirely. The context of when God sends Jesus down is supposed to cast out this fear. With fear, we can learn to /appreciate/ God. Appreciation shows with growing love and respect, so, coincidentally, Fear = Love.

I do not consider myself a christian; I am agnostic.

Bell's only shedding God/Jesus in a different light; it's not direct heresy.

[droptozro]

@MayakuCreep

No, I think you mis-understand it respectively--since you're an agnostic, you would not have the Spirit and widely mis-interpret many things. The Scriptures are pretty much useless in your hands. Jesus is and still was the same God of the OT--His judgments still stand, and Jesus told people multiple times they must repent or perish, and pronounced "woes" against entire cities saying their judgment would be worse than Sodom..

Bell is a heretic--pushing the fold into universalism

[MayakuCreep]

@droptozro So~... Because I'm agnostic, I don't know what I'm talking about? Because I'm agnostic, I've never read the bible and it has never had a relevance on me? Because I'm agnostic, I can't understand what words are, what words mean and what they portray?

Do you think that God is loving at all?

[droptozro]

@MayakuCreep

Actually, the Scriptures say it... or at least Paul's letter.

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Cor 2:14

Of course God IS love, but God is severely just also. Entertain God and heaven/hell for me.. would a loving God forgive and allow into His kingdom who don't wish to turn from sin and worship Him? Would a good judge let criminals go freely?

[MayakuCreep]

@droptozro Anyone with an open mind can understand scripture. Sure they may not know how it feels to be a Christian, but they can surely understand, right? No, a good judge would not let criminals go free. But God gave up his dominion over the Earth after the first sins were committed. And because sins are an act of 'rebellion' against God, and since this Earth is full of sin, by logic, we can see that God has lost 'control'/'dominion' of the Earth.

[droptozro]

@MayakuCreep

Um... I'm not sure, Scripture seems to state most can't and won't(and that's been my experience)---though there is a full 45 min. interview here on youtube called "Interview with an Atheist"--he actually understands Scripture better than most professing Christians.

You're partially correct--but since God is the ultimate authority, He's chosen one day alone to judge all humanity/angels---so it's not really out of His ultimate control, it's just awaiting judgment. Read 2 Peter 3:9

[droptozro]

@droptozro (edit) sorry, it's actually 1 hour and 1 minute long--but it's a good interview.

[truth4U2C]

@jakethesly1 yes I agree, but if you analize God's act of love on the cross, you see that our sins has caused much pain to Christ, so our loving response is to obey John 14:23 "Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them." Repentance is a big part of how we obey Jesus, I fear Rob teaches a differant gospel..read your bible please, to see if what I'm saying is true...peace

[drmark1956]

@jakethesly1 It doesn't matter what Rob Bell's intentions were! He MISQUOTED Scripture and that my friend is a very dangerous thing. You can't manipulate the Bible to get it to say what you want it to say - you must let it say what it says. Bell is a theological neophyte - he needs to go to a reputable seminary and learn how to 'rightly divide the Word.'

Dr. E

[truth4U2C]

@MayakuCreep The position from the bible is that all have sinned, so God is Just even if he didn't save a single person. From that shift, we see that there is no one innocent, So the question "Why does bad things happen to good people" could be asked "Why does good things happen at all?" All suffering is to be blamed on sin, not God. Plate tectonics can be traced back to Noah's flood, we do see that God did use then to clease the earth from man, that had become overwhelmingly evil in his sight.

[truth4U2C]

But, since then Christ has come and offer salvation through him as a kind of door, just like in the day of Noah, a person could be saved by entering through the door on the ark and be saved. John 10 Peace Bob

[rickgigliotti]

Rob Bell is a false teacher

[truth4U2C]

@rickgigliotti yea, most likely, lets pray for him and his followers...Peace

[MelRHerr]

Speaking God's truth doesn't mean scaring people into redemption.

[truth4U2C]

@MelRHerr Sure, that's a true statement, and I'm not saying to use scare tactics, but we must not shy away from telling the truth that includes hell....Rob I fear, says God loves us just the way we are, which isn't true....Peace

[MayakuCreep]

@truth4U2C You(to a lesser degree) and them are the kind that will be scaring off people who are lost and hopeless. People don't hear and will not listen to anything regarding condemnation. Saying hell is reserved for the people who don't believe in God is STILL using the SAME philosophy that WBC and some other churches are using. Even Rob Bell says, in "001 - Rain", that God's love is unconditional and he will hear the people who are suffering.

[truth4U2C]

@MayakuCreep "Saying hell is reserved for the people who don't believe in God" people go to Hell because they have unrepentant sin in their lives  Biblical preaching warns sinners of the coming judgment, we by our sins are already condemned....So to a sinner who dosn't know God's grace it will feel like the preachers is judging and condemning, but he is warning and inviting them to repent and trust in what Christ did on the cross... WBC.reallly? watch the way of the master's channel, peace

[MayakuCreep]

@truth4U2C With all due respect, unrepentant sin and being a non-believer are the same thing. Being a Christian means, according to me, repenting for your sins and coming(which people still do even after they've accepted God's path) to Christ. Having said that, non-believers are people who haven't repented and 'confessed' their sins to God. Isn't that the first thing to do before you allow Jesus/God to take the wheel?

[truth4U2C]

@MayakuCreep Sure they can go hand and hand, but the main point is how Rob's way dosn't warn them that they have offened God, he makes blanet statements which imply that all street preaching is wrong based on a miss representation of God, God is Love, but he is also Just. As sinners we must be shown our position, yes that can be scary, but it must be done.

[truth4U2C]

I like what you say about "God taking the wheel" making God Lord, compare that to how Rob says God Loves us just the way we are....do you see that if we are fine, there would be no need to make Jesus LORD of our LIfe...Peace

[MayakuCreep]

@truth4U2C I agree. But that doesn't mean that "near-perfect"(by way of living a moral life) people can't come to God. Most people that start off believing realize they are, indeed, not perfect. You being a pastor, know this well. God accepts the perfect, the non-perfect, the broken, the fallen, and the sinners, aswell. But people sin every day, including you; we all make mistakes. And like I said last week, that's all part of being a Christian AND being a human, as well. Do you agree?

[truth4U2C]

@MayakuCreep Of Course, but what happens in time, as a follower of Jesus, your sinning will decreasing as God changes your hearts desirers. What makes us perfect is Christ, there is a vid on youtube called "good-O-meter" its kind of corney but correctly shows who's goodness gets us into heaven. In a real strange turn of events, you'll see that its God's Grace that is unjust....see if you notice that at the end of the vid...

[MelRHerr]

Speaking God's truth doesn't mean scaring people into redemption.

[mouthbeats11l2l]

the son of man came to seek and save the lost because he loves them. why do we try to reject who God has accepted? Do you know how many people have repented and believed in the Gospel because of people like Rob Bell? It's God's kindness that leads to repentance. Jesus died for us because that's just who he is! That's who our Father is! if we have made it an agenda we have missed the point. It's fruit of the Spirit to love others, and minister to the lost, that's my experience anyway. Peace!

[truth4U2C]

@mouthbeats11l2l "the son of man came to seek and save the lost because he loves them. why do we try to reject who God has accepted?...Has God accepted everyone? "Do you know how many people have repented and believed in the Gospel because of people like Rob Bell?" According to Rob Bell in this video God loves us just the way we are, so no one has repented....that's my main point, Rob doesn't preach repentance..peace back at ya friend!

[theNewCovenantGroup]

Bell is doing good.

[jotyod]

Yeah, good deconstruction you did. I've seen a couple of his noomas in church on our jumbotron and they unsettled me a bit. I think i know why now. He seems to characterize the gospel with fuzzy words.  Measure everything with scripture as you did and ask the HS for insight.

[UnrealHelix]

This is solid. I wasn't 100% that Rob Bell's teaching was faulty and extremely humanistic, but this video has clarified everything I knew. The nooma is very popular, within our household at least, but it isn't doctrinally sound, therefore it should be thrown out.

[larnellefynn]

awesome.

[larnellefynn]

What is that truth?

[truth4U2C]

The true or actual state of a matter, conformity with fact or reality, a verified or indisputable fact, proposition and or principle... Jesus claimed to be "the Truth" John 14:6 Therefore it can be known.

[larnellefynn]

I get Jesus but I'm not sure I'm a fan of his followers. Ya'll seem so divided the love ya'll speak of seems to just be words and not actions.

[truth4U2C]

I understand what your saying, but keep in mind that there is an enemy of the truth, that wants to keep the truth from being heard and understood, so being clear about what Jesus said, did, and instucts his followers to do is very important.

[UnrealHelix]

@truth4U2C solid.

[WinwardWay]

ahahaha

[oreilzac]

Personally, I honestly don't see any danger with Rob Bell, quite the contrary actually. I feel the manner in which he extrapolates a biblical message is fresh, vibrant and punchy .I understand its far from conservative but Jesus's message to me was far from conservative, it was fresh, vibrant and punchy. from the outside Jesus seemed to be a rebel and a heretic.but when you looked that little bit deeper you found out he was quite the opposite.Never forget that only dead fish swim with the stream

[UnrealHelix]

@oreilzac Yes, but Jesus' teaching was only fresh because He was sent to proclaim a fresh, new covenant to the Jews, then to the world. Rob Bell should be teaching the Gospel which Jesus Himself preached, about repentance and faith, not some ''fresh, vibrant and punchy'', yet theologically wrong doctrine.

[oreilzac]

another warped middle american bible bashing blind pharisee. well done mate.

[truth4U2C]

What?

[JoelJrLeip]

Does reality exist outside the scriptures? The Bible never mentions Doritos, so does that mean they don't exist? What if we all tried to relate to the people around us instead of quoting scriptures?

There is a generation of people to love. Let us love them by actions and truth, not just our favorite bible verses.

[shorelineoftahoe]

Deeds over Creeds...

[truth4U2C]

@JoelJrLeip, The power to change lifes, is found in God's word. We should be ready to speak the truth to the lost, in love. this is the love shown from Jesus's life, it is our example, God's power is in the measage of the cross, it should be on the tips of our tonges.

[oreilzac]

This is a message to you from God. (Truth not undergirded by love, will makes the possessor of that truth obnoxious and the dogma he possesses repulsive). it was only when i read Gods word did i realize how much of a sinner i was. as for a bullhorn guy shouting condemnation at me. it simply doesn't work in this day and age. people don't believe there is a god let alone be judged by a fairy tale. the evangelical arena has changed mate, its time to get up to speed and join the rest of us.

[truth4U2C]

oreilzac, Your saying your experience is that by reading the bible you came to know what a sinner you are..Me Too, but... The same message shouted from a bullhorn, simply doesn't work in this day and age??? like i mention in the vid, if the message is sound, we must be careful not to thow out the baby with the bath water. We are called to proclaim the gospel, the bad news along side the good news, then its up to the Holy Spirit to do the rest...Sow good seed from God's word is the example...

[oreilzac]

Since i became a Christian and in my experience i noticed there are lots of broken people out there. as an interdiction to God, the last thing people need is condemnation thrown at them. they desperately need to know they are loved. then as they read the bible they can get a feel for them selves of how far away from god law they are. Maybe in America they need that harsh interdiction but not in Ireland where they have had the law rammed down there throats all there lives.

[oreilzac]

Sorry I meant to say introduction instead of interdiction.

[roggenbrot1000]

thanks for posting this. what rob bell is saying makes a lot of sense. what you've said sir is nonsense. u seem to be coming from a defensive standpoint at any cost and really ur points dont reflect jesus' message.

[gtrjunky]

Of course it's "nonsense"...to you. Anyone who listens to Rob Bell obviously does not understand the scriptures.

[bgoo419]

The problem with the church today (opinion) is that we have made ourselves out to be perfect people and we proclaim that if you don't become perfect like us then you go to hell. Then outsiders see that we aren't perfect and they think we are all fake. Maybe if the BHG would stand up and preach to the masses about how awful of a sinner he is instead of condemning others we could reach more people for Christ. Paul called himself the chief of sinners. Maybe the rest of us should follow suit.

[oreilzac]

Spoken like a REAL Christian bgoo419.

[bgoo419]

The issue here is not Rob "misrepresenting" scripture. The issue is the FACT that non-believers today are growing more and more anti-christian. This isn't because of our obedience to God but because we have become such a hypocritical and judgmental group of people. These BHGs constantly preach that people should turn from their sins or theyll go to hell. Then the people who heard that BHG see or hear about a christian doing the same things the BHG was preaching against.

[bgoo419]

Then you go on to say that we are "gonna be attracted and want to love them because they are gonna be Christ-like like us". Are you saying that a non-believer is incapable of someone wanting to love them?

[truth4U2C]

Sorry I missed your question earlier...Our love of Jesus will draw us to like minded or Heart changed (born again) people ie the church or body of believers. Our love for the lost has a differant avenue, the reality of the fall of man, and our need for a savior, logically motivates us, to warn them of the comming judgment, we all face. (ALL) Believers will have their sin debt pay for, because they repented and trusted Chirst's work on the Cross.

[oreilzac]

In relation to the video you sent me. this is a perfect example of semantics over context. is rob bell saying faith in our own ability over faith in Jesus. of course not. what he is saying though is. we need and have a responsibility to manage our faith in Jesus. the new testament is full of indications in the dangers to unbelief or lack of faith. So peter should have managed his faith in Jesus and he would not have sunk. i do agree there is a thin line to understanding here.

[UnrealHelix]

@oreilzac Yes, but unbelief isn't unbelief a sin against ourselves, but a sin against God, because we take our eyes off Him, we doubt HIM. Not us.

[bgoo419]

So are you saying that we are not called to love OTHERS just everyone who is a Christian? Are you saying that it is possible to love God and HATE someone who isn't a Christian? You said that Rob misquoted the scripture and said OTHER when the scripture says BROTHER. You said our BROTHER is who we are "highly commanded to love". Are we not commanded to love people who aren't Christians?

[daredreamermedia]

Lastly, I once heard Kirk Cameron & a Christian radio personality on air out in public addressing college students on a campus. They were open air preaching. But they were civil, no bullhorn, and conveyed passion without pounding. THAT was effective open air preaching IMHO. The BHG in Rob's video, and most BHGs I've seen are unapproachable. I believe in what they're saying and even I want to scream at them. How much more so then do non-believers who are predisposed to hate the gospel already.

[truth4U2C]

Sure there are some BHG's who are over the top, But how Rob handles the Gospel in the video is so misleading, he ends up opposing the word of God. Kirk and the radio guy (Todd Friel) made a video response to rob's BHG too watch?v=J7QnQW4tYF0

[daredreamermedia]

So, you do agree some BHGs are over the top. I believe those are the BHGs addressed here. We'll agree to disagree about whether or not how he handles the gospel is misleading. I'll try to find the Kirk and Todd video.

[bladeronner]

This is daredreamermedia now using my personal YouTube account for this discussion.

I just watched the Todd Friel video. The biggest problem w/ Todd's doctor analogy is that physical sickness is 100% objective. Spiritual sickness is not. If a person doesn't believe in God or His laws, telling him he's going to perish in hell for disobeying God's law does absolutely no good. You HAVE to win their trust & belief 1ST. Over the top BHGs do more harm than good IMHO. (to be cont.)

[bladeronner]

The other problem with Friel's video is his assumption that the emergent pastor gotee guy doesn't ever share the hope he has in Christ. It's obvious is taking a dig at Rob Bell, who absolutely shares the hope he has in Christ. And he believes God loves us where we are AND wants us to change. In the Nooma "You" Bell specifically says that. I would strongly suggest you and Friel look at the ALPHA course. IMHO a much better way to win nonbelievers, w/o watering down the full gospel.

[bladeronner]

Lastly, I'll say this. If God didn't love us where we are, He wouldn't have sent His only begotten son. Hello? John 3:16 anyone? Loving you where you are doesn't mean condoning your sin or not desiring you to grow. It means just that, loving you. And thru a loving relationship (there's the magic word), helping you to know Christ, grow, and become more of the person God would have you become. Yelling at nonbelieving strangers they're going to burn in hell is, as my daughter put it, just rude.

[truth4U2C]

Yes, to your statement an scripture your sharing, But listen closely to what Rob is really saying, he seems to hook us with the BHG, but then teaches a differant kind of love that is not in the text...and I know I sound like a broken record but what about Repentance! Corinthians 6:8 9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders.

[truth4U2C]

10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God .

[truth4U2C]

"And that is what some of you were" So we see clearly that these believers repented, Rob does a very dangerous thing by not calling people to repent, thats why it is always better to work with a BHG who is telling the truth (good cop / bad cop) If we say that BHG is wrong, becareful, because someone who doesn't know God, will not know where to determine what is wrong with the context of a BHG. The aposle Paul spent much time caling out false teachers.

[truth4U2C]

What Rob does here, is attack the body without any real cear rebuke, based on scripture, he doesn't like the technique. Look at how god in the past spoke to man: burning bush, loud voice from heaven, donkey, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and John the Babtist, all these messingers were hated by those who heard them...so here is the question I have, what does Rob dislike, the message or the technique?

[bladeronner]

Against my better judgment, I'll continue this discussion. ;) Simply put, this Nooma is not meant to communicate the entire gospel. It's meant to address ONE issue: loud BHGs yelling to total strangers to repent. Strangers who do NOT know God. Therefore BHG's words fall on deaf ears. 1 Cor 2:14 tells us that men not of the spirit can't understand words of the spirit. That it is foolishness to them. That is the issue.

[truth4U2C]

Granted, "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1 Cor 1:18 So do you believe that the gospel is the Power of God to save? The gospel message that BHG says on the vid is correct,...So does Rob dislike, the message or the technique? Look I like some of what Rob has to say, but this is so sloppy that I had to point out that the gospel looks to be thrown out with the messenger. At least give me that point.

[bladeronner]

W/ respect to how God communicated in the Bible. Most of the NT is comprised of letters from Paul to BELIEVING churches. His audience was pre-disposed to take his words to heart. In Acts, when Paul DOES address pagans, he goes so far as to acknowledge their beliefs then sets the stage for why the one true God is real.

Bottom line: just b/c Bell doesn't call for repentance in this particular Nooma, doesnt make the theology in this Nooma wrong, nor his point invalid.

[truth4U2C]

In all of what I've read, and seen Rob is very weak on the repentance part of the gospel, He has said, but in the balance of all he has said, it should show up a lot more in his context if he truly understood the gospel. What makes his theology wrong in this video is his attempt to teach "how we love others is how we love God" That statement can't be support from scripture. Everyone of the people who have taken issue with this vid avoid this point.

[bladeronner]

I just watched part 2 of Friel's Bullhorn response.. Oh my goodness. The way he approached people to share about God's judgment is NOT what the Nooma "Bullhorn" is addressing. Talk about misleading. Friel called people up, 1 at a time, & in a calm, friendly, and rational manner explained the gospel. I think that's cool. But, Bell was NOT talking about a guy like that. BHG in the Nooma film is the guy yelling a passersby with a bullhorn, not calling people over 1x1 for a heart to heart.

[daredreamermedia]

And re: the point of knowing internally when you're being loved, I have to agree with Rob. First, the scriptures don't say whehher or not the rich ruler knew Jesus was loving him. Secondly, I dare say one can tell when a person is talking to them with sincere love and concern for their well-being, vs. a desire to tell them they're wrong. Most open air preachers I've seen don't come off loving, they come off as argumentative, desiring to show that they're right. That's not showing love.

[daredreamermedia]

The problem I have with open air preachers like described here (who do exist) is that for ever 1 in 1000 who MAY be moved by the hell & damnation fear mongering, 999 are turned off and hate Christianity even more, and are that more pushed away. No relationship is created between BHG and his audience. For tough "love" to exist, there must be a relationship. You can't show tough love to a total stranger. (to be continued...)

[John6verse27]

Truth4U2C, thank you for posting this & also for being so gracious in your response to ddot.

Personally I am really sick of these soft compromising preachers & teachers. They really need to read & study James 3:1. This cat is compromised and fabricated like a 90's boy band. 

Thanks again Truth4U2C!

[truth4U2C]

THanks for the encouragment, My hope is that these vids, will sharpen the body of Christ, many are like as you say, they act like the world, Postmodern Christians w/o a back bone....Peace

[ddot1979]

Wow, you missed the point buddy. Im going to pray for your mind to be loosened so that you can receive truth.

[truth4U2C]

Thanks I'll aways take prayer, I do get his point...he dosn't like street preachers.