Interesting. In my own rigorous treatment on what we can know, I am positive on the validity of that set of reality that falls under rational and empirical. Metaphysics has no rational or empirical basis. I was not remembering my own treatment on the matter but the first person to clarify this for me was Kant.
I do not agree that ALL of reality is encompassed by physical reality.
how can you define the words "reality" and "physical" such that reality isn't all physical?
You will have to define physical as "can or does interact with you" (more or less), and reality, what's really there interacts with you, yes? There can be unknowables that still interact with you, but they would be physical by virtue of interacting with something physical, i.e. your body. ??
i think material theory of fitness browsing the space of configurations will shed little light upon spirituality. gayness persists in spite of unfitness.
it's sort of a rude example, I admit, but I like that example because it emphasizes that changing what type of spirituality you have within is a spiritual experience, even if it's getting rid of what you previously thought of as spiritual. You are not left with nothing spiritual, but really, just a new spirituality.
I'm not sure you can escape spirituality of some sort at all, even if you wanted to, and I'm not sure you should want to.
However, what spirituality becomes or is understand to be would be changing radically, and the "end result" would not be what we expected thousands of years ago prior to our subsequent experiences.
"but I like that example because it emphasizes that changing what type of spirituality you have within is a spiritual experience, even if it's getting rid of what you previously thought of as spiritual."
I felt so silly this morning when it hit me, while eating cereals, that a spiritual experience for a nontheist can be something else than "I survived that carcrash, omfg its a MIRACLE!!!!"
#2 I think I missinterpreted you yesterday by assuming that the spiritual experience mentioned is the one YOU are having if someone else changes their mind about theism. Something like "I told you so, see?" That seemed so childish for someone I hold in high regard like you and that confused/anoyed me.
heh, yeah, no, I meant for the person changing. Someone else mentioned it was spiritual for them to see this change in others... but I took that as tongue in cheek even so.
so i was going to ask what is the material interpretation of hallucinations, i.e. my 'spiritual exp.' was a trip so everything i experienced wasn't physical, i mean the only physical interaction i had were with the bed and chair so what i was experiencing at the time could be described as meta-physical.
you say you are looking for the meaning at the core of the exp., then i would say that i felt at one with everything, but is this description of the core not meta-physical too?
firstly... you can talk about a material definition of meta-physics, and that's just the ideas we use to talk about physics itself, as opposed to talking about a particular event... ultimately I'm saying things like a hallucination are still physical insofar as they related to physical processes in your brain.
I think this feeling of connection is something common in spiritual experiences, and I suspect, just as a clue to follow, not a conclusion of mind as of yet, this is because it does help survival to see the big picture, to feel connected, and dissolve some of the trap of the petty side of individualism.
I tend to think everyone has had such experiences but they may not interpret them as something they want to call "spiritual"... e.g. they think that has to mean something metaphysical... or merely that they have another way of interpreting it. In fact, I think most people are largely ignoring their spiritual experiences and thereby not using them to their full potential.
Interesting. In my own rigorous treatment on what we can know, I am positive on the validity of that set of reality that falls under rational and empirical. Metaphysics has no rational or empirical basis. I was not remembering my own treatment on the matter but the first person to clarify this for me was Kant.
I do not agree that ALL of reality is encompassed by physical reality.
walterwz 2 years ago
how can you define the words "reality" and "physical" such that reality isn't all physical?
You will have to define physical as "can or does interact with you" (more or less), and reality, what's really there interacts with you, yes? There can be unknowables that still interact with you, but they would be physical by virtue of interacting with something physical, i.e. your body. ??
pyrrho314 2 years ago
Nice video plz do more of this quality.
magpiesmn 3 years ago
i think material theory of fitness browsing the space of configurations will shed little light upon spirituality. gayness persists in spite of unfitness.
jogayot 3 years ago
"I would say an example of a spiritual experience is the moment a theist realizes why he must abandon his theism."
I actualy was offended by that at first, but after sleeping/thinking about it I cant help but agree. Sorry if I was sruffy.
bwhahrhr 3 years ago
it's sort of a rude example, I admit, but I like that example because it emphasizes that changing what type of spirituality you have within is a spiritual experience, even if it's getting rid of what you previously thought of as spiritual. You are not left with nothing spiritual, but really, just a new spirituality.
I'm not sure you can escape spirituality of some sort at all, even if you wanted to, and I'm not sure you should want to.
pyrrho314 3 years ago
However, what spirituality becomes or is understand to be would be changing radically, and the "end result" would not be what we expected thousands of years ago prior to our subsequent experiences.
pyrrho314 3 years ago
"but I like that example because it emphasizes that changing what type of spirituality you have within is a spiritual experience, even if it's getting rid of what you previously thought of as spiritual."
I felt so silly this morning when it hit me, while eating cereals, that a spiritual experience for a nontheist can be something else than "I survived that carcrash, omfg its a MIRACLE!!!!"
bwhahrhr 3 years ago
#2 I think I missinterpreted you yesterday by assuming that the spiritual experience mentioned is the one YOU are having if someone else changes their mind about theism. Something like "I told you so, see?" That seemed so childish for someone I hold in high regard like you and that confused/anoyed me.
Now this entertanins me quite a bit :)
bwhahrhr 3 years ago
heh, yeah, no, I meant for the person changing. Someone else mentioned it was spiritual for them to see this change in others... but I took that as tongue in cheek even so.
pyrrho314 3 years ago
so i was going to ask what is the material interpretation of hallucinations, i.e. my 'spiritual exp.' was a trip so everything i experienced wasn't physical, i mean the only physical interaction i had were with the bed and chair so what i was experiencing at the time could be described as meta-physical.
you say you are looking for the meaning at the core of the exp., then i would say that i felt at one with everything, but is this description of the core not meta-physical too?
Ceadem 3 years ago
firstly... you can talk about a material definition of meta-physics, and that's just the ideas we use to talk about physics itself, as opposed to talking about a particular event... ultimately I'm saying things like a hallucination are still physical insofar as they related to physical processes in your brain.
pyrrho314 3 years ago
I think this feeling of connection is something common in spiritual experiences, and I suspect, just as a clue to follow, not a conclusion of mind as of yet, this is because it does help survival to see the big picture, to feel connected, and dissolve some of the trap of the petty side of individualism.
pyrrho314 3 years ago
When I saw James Randi speak, during his talk he said "Dictionaries don't give us meanings; they give us usage!"
CousinoMacul 3 years ago
I'll have to remember that.
pyrrho314 3 years ago
"Knowledge not shared = Energy Wasted"
...was a quote I always liked that seems more now to me like an equation that proves obvious truth.
Funny... why have I never questioned the authority of the dictionary?... why can't I define MY OWN words?
USACitizenJames 3 years ago
I wonder if those people that have not had a spiritual experience are those people that have experienced little or no great trauma in their life?
5stars!
USACitizenJames 3 years ago
I tend to think everyone has had such experiences but they may not interpret them as something they want to call "spiritual"... e.g. they think that has to mean something metaphysical... or merely that they have another way of interpreting it. In fact, I think most people are largely ignoring their spiritual experiences and thereby not using them to their full potential.
pyrrho314 3 years ago