Lutheran conversation on vestments (minister's clothes)

[Audinos]

Do Lutheran liturgical colors correspond to Catholic colors? For example, green for Ordinary Time, violet for Advent and Lent, white for Eastertide, and red for Pentecost and feasts of martyrs. Is blue used? For Catholics, blue vestments are not permitted, though some have tried to use them for Advent.

[KelownaLutheran]

@Audinos Thank for your questions. Yes, Lutheran liturgical colours correspond to Roman Catholic colours. And, yes, we do use blue in Advent (though violet is not unheard of in come congregations).

[karpov89]

About the cingulum and stole, when wearing the cingulum the stole is crossed, if you are not a bishop.

[jx4720]

interesting! I also appreciated hearing that the vestments, though they do enrich worship are not either the focus or necessary for worship. The symbols have value and as such, I appreciate them.

[mrpsichi]

I'm surprised that not alot of bishops in the ELCA wear either the cope or chasuble during mass. I'm shocked that many of them do not use the traditional insignia of the episcopacy such as the mitre, crosier, and purple zuchetto. I think many of our Lutheran bishops need to be trained on how to vest themselves so that they look like bishops and not priests.

[karpov89]

@mrpsichi But maybe that is because ECLA look different upon the episcopal office, do not have real ordinations and believe in the Apostolic Succession as something valuable. In the video Christ is risen - Easter Day mass in Skara 2, you can see how Lutheran bishops should dress and do dress in Sweden.

[rwboa22]

@mrpsichi In the ELCA and the ELCIC (the Canadian counterpart), the bishop is looked at as an office (like that of the United Methodist and American African Methoidst churches), not an ordained rank of the clergy as seen in Roman Catholic, Anglican, Scandinavian/Baltic Lutheran, and Eastern Orthodox traditions.  Unlike the American Methodist bishops, which remain a member of that office for life, ELCA and ELCIC bishops revert to "pastor" status after they leave office.

[karpov89]

@mrpsichi The zuchetto is rarely used in Church of Sweden or any other major Lutheran body...but it is not a liturgical vestment in the same way as the mitre and crosier, not as important.

[mrpsichi]

@karpov89 Ok. That's interesting. That explains why not many Lutheran clergy wear the zuchetto. I myself was raised in the Lutheran church and haven't any pastors or bishops wear it. I myself am ordained in the Pentecostal church and have to wear a black zuchetto with my cassock, surplice and stole/tippet. I usually wear that at ordinations. In performing Eucharistic functions I wear an alb, stole and chasuble. I usually wear the chasuble during the entire service.

[karpov89]

@mrpsichi Oh are you a pentecostal church pastor and wears liturgical vestments?! That is totally unthinkable in Sweden (except for Pentacostal pastor Peter Halldorf maybe, who lives in an ecumenical community, and who is influenced by the Oriental churches).

[mrpsichi]

@karpov89 Yes. I was raised in the Lutheran church and left during my teen years to become Pentecostal. I wear liturgical vestments because that's what I'm used to. Plus many African-American Pentecostals such as myself are liturgical in terms of our vestments. Alot of us wear cassock, surplice, and tippet. I myself also wear a chasuble from time to time. I was raised in the ELCA.

[karpov89]

@mrpsichi What I miss in this video is the cope which is used by the bishop when not being the celebrant and also priests at festive occasions when not the celebrant.

[Norskyone]

Many of the (non-haugean) Scandinavian Lutherans of the upper midwest have an unbroken history with the full use of vestments. The cincture has not been traditionally worn by Lutheran clerics unless they are unmarried as it is a symbol of celibacy and chastity.

[karpov89]

In Scandinavia cincture is usually worn regardless of married or not. Glad to hear that they use the liturgical vestments - and that is including the chasuble and cape at some occasions?

[karpov89]

Really good that you wear the chasuble. It should really be worn always at the high mass, either the hole mass or put on during the offertory hymn just before the liturgy of the eucharist. Celebrate the mass without stole and alb must be totally unthinkable today. However I do really prefer the simple stoles without figures.