I truly do hope that one day mankind will rise above the continual striving for wealth and power and focus on the betterment of all over just themselves or their country, but we still have a way's to go before we reach that time. However I've been wrong before.
@merekbow Sometimes big, complex changes can happen more quickly than you expect. Two examples I think of are, how after decades of "cold war", how quickly the Soviet Union came apart. Also, how smoking went from being "cool" to smokers being treated like social pariahs. So we might reach the "promised land" yet in our lifetimes!
"One of the primary features of Star Trek that made it different from other shows was it believed that Humans are improving – they will vastly improve [by] the 23rd century."
--Gene Roddenberry, from Entertainment Tonight, 1986
"[The Human Nature MYTH is] certainly wrong. Furthermore, it's dangerous. Wrong, because there is no real evidence for it. Not in genetics, not in zoology, not in psychology, not in anthropology, not in history, not even in the ordinary experience of soldiers in war. Dangerous because it deflects attention from the non-biological causes of violence."
"In his vision of the future, Gene [Roddenberry] pushed the principles of equality a little further forward. In StarTrek equality is kinetic, quick and real. It is not equal opportunity, but equal reality. It means that everyone's stomach IS full, not potentially full; & that everyone's home is a decent place to live."
--Yvonne Fern, Gene Roddenberry: The Last Conversation (University of California Press, 1994)
She was with him when he died. If anybody knows the deal, it's HER
"[In Star Trek] there is no pay for any work because one works for the love of it & no other reason."
--Yvonne Fern, The Last Conversation
...Star Trek's characters, at least, the GOOD guys (Starfleet/the Federation) BARTER their LABORS of LOVE...
"When the New World Economy took shape in the late 22nd century & money went the way of the dinosaur, Fort Knox was turned into a museum."
--Tom Paris, from the Star Trek: Voyager episode, Dark Frontier
...a figure of speech, LOVE it. Jake got "paid" via the Federation's honor system: He BARTERS his LABOR of LOVE for WHATEVER; for someone ELSE'S labor of love...
@ISMOPANAMA I'd add a psychological breakthrough too - a shift from the basic attitude of consumption and competition to an attitude of contribution and compassion.
@bmillerbiop I know what you mean. In order to purify the Exterior Universe ("Reality") we must first purify the Inner One First.
We need more "Great Minds" like Jacque Fresco and Peter Joseph.
Just yesterday I saw the film "AGORA" which is based on the final years of the Alexandrian Philosopher HYPATIA. She was ahead of her time and I actually got watery eyed knowing that this "Human Monsters" killed her in such a horrific way for no Reasonable Reason at all.
@bmillerbiop That's not so much a requirement as a result of humanity entering a state of post-scarcity. What use is wealth and great possessions when none of that is necessary to satisfy your personal needs? Instead it becomes a limiter, because while you own property, property also owns you. It's not a coincidence that federation starships aren't the cramped and tight quarters like those of our current military or those of the federations klingon adversaries.
@ISMOPANAMA Add a shift in human nature(that is the need to work for self improvement instead of fiscal renumeration)and you have something called post scarcity.
@RevanorSzeged Hah! Calif gov. Jerry Brown used to have a radio show and once observed that most people only have two brain cells when it comes to the economy: If it's not "capitalism", then it has to be "communism".
Let's ditch all the "-isms" and just create a system that enables people to reach their full potential to be happy, healthy, contributing citizens. (We might call it "people-ism" but that doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.)
NO, let's NOT - there's enough IGNORANCE in America as it is (watch Mike Judge's Idiocracy to see what I mean). White folks need to STOP using Patrick Swayze's movie, Red Dawn, as a barometer.
A fascist has an evil SOCIAL & an evil FISCAL policy
A Stalinist has an evil SOCIAL policy & a good FISCAL policy
A libertarian has a good SOCIAL policy & a TOTALLY EVIL FISCAL policy
An actual communist has a good SOCIAL policy AND a good FISCAL policy
i think it would be easier getting rid of the corrupt governments than getting every man on the planet rich with currency. bring on the peaceful revolution
@ayejocky It's a chicken-or-egg thing. 90% of the reason why governments are corrupt is related to money. You're right that everybody can't be "rich" in the traditional sense (i.e. money) but everyone *can* have what they need for a life of comfort, safety, opportunity, and the ability to make a positive contribution to the world. I think that's the point of the above Star Trek clip.
A possible explanation could be an energy acquisition. Energy based on how much you spend Physically, Mentally and Psychological. Energy System. After all, we all feel positive after doing activities that come from heart and intellectual mind.
@KaiserXCaesar You could simply describe that as 'to better one's self', just like Picard just did in this video. No need to call it anything different, lol. Look up: Resource Based Economy, The Venus Project, and watch the documentary 'Zeitgeist: Moving Forward'. It'll enlighten you! On the same topic.
Capitalism debunked: Indigenous peoples still live without the "incentive" of money, making shelters, providing for themselves. Profit systems under utilize resources. Profit systems cannot exist without poverty, unemployment, inadequate wages. Poverty causes 99% of crime. Profit systems are impractical and unnecessary. Profit systems require class-ism, totalitarian systems and always corrupts Governments.
The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force,we work to better our selves,what he means ,is that humanity works together as a whole to make the world a better place,for its children,and future children,but as it stands right now,we are going in circles,humanity does not plan ahead for the next 100 years,we plan ahead when it comes to energy,what country do we attack next,if children are important, why do we segregate one child from another when it comes to education?Rich and poor...?
@bmillerbiop Every time you find a double standard that is UN-discovered,you should write it down,and make a video out of it,i have discovered many,i don't know why they exist,i only have questions.there are questions that decent people are afraid to ask,because they have so much fear,or they know very little of what is going on around them,but they can feel deep down that their is something wrong,but they can never pin point it.i usually write down my thoughts on science,philosophy and ideas.
@ddd82451 There are many people like me,they just don't have a voice,because of fear, ignorance stifles their opinions,there is more ignorance in this world than rational behavior,ignorance is just another form of pollution,ignorance is a majority,every body's state of mind is on a different level, have you ever heard the saying "Ignorance is bliss",well that saying applies to the filthy rich,they are running out of ideas and time,they are a dying culture,and they don't know it yet.
@ddd82451 In order for the post scarcity society to work on a foundation level,and to create a higher standard of living,the population around the world has come down a bit,in order for there to be an abundance of materials and resources,Education would have to be left wide open for all walks of life,the rich and powerful would be totally against it,they would do everything in their power to undermine it,they would label a post scarcity society movememnt as a Left wing Communist idea.
@Superpureeliteful If a replicator(Star Trek) was invented, the only way for it be accepted into society is that people have to realize that everyone in society is valuable: not just the bank accountants, or business owners, or lawyers, but everyone: teachers, firemen,policemen, construction workers.
But in Star Trek, the reason it worked was because of WW3(billions dead), near total anarchy,
disease and poverty running rampant: humanity had to change in order to survive.
@ddd82451 This video is not about technology,it is about money,and material need,society is to distant and not advanced enough to to have something like that,if a replicator existed,every one would want one,but it would not solve all social problems,it would never be released on the market,because if such technology existed,it would solve the worlds hunger problems,and it would cause the food market to fall,but it would not solve the real problems.
"[A replicator] would not solve all social problems, it would never be released on the market, because if such technology existed, it would solve the world's hunger problems, and it would cause the food market to fall."
Thank you! I'm glad SOMEbody understands! What has to happen FIRST is for the masses to finally acknowledge that corporate greed ("the food market") is an inherent evil that canNOT be reformed.
@ddd82451 Let me tell you the future problems are ,no.1 Population,no.2 Food,and energy,the popualtion is causing the cost of materials going up,money is the root cause of divorce,and consumerist society does not keep families together,children born into a consumer society,are careless with money,and if they are born into a family were there parents are divorced over money,they carry on the same traditions,because the consumer society is not protecting the family,over population....
@ddd82451 Which is why the price of everything is going up in price,and now there are even more and more divorces over money,there is more poverty,there is a lack of understanding in family economics,because they are not educating teenagers for tomorrow how to live,and they keep carrying on "living the Americàn Dream",the society is responsible for keeping family in check.
@ddd82451 I do blame women for alot of these things,because women are soppose to be at the center of a family,and what has happened,is the consumer society has exploited women to be more greedy with money when it comes to alamony,and they are havng children with many rich men,do you know all these celebritys who have been divorced 10 times,they should not be role models for women,like Elizabeth taylor etc,they should be labeled as hopeless romantics,their way of life is very wrong.
@ddd82451 There is a fundemental problem with money and divorce, for example,.if a woman divorces a man because he cant afford to look after his family,which is very common at the moment,she fucks off with the children,and probably finds another man,she re-marries and a new baby,and her x-husband ends up with a new woman and starts a new family,you see money is responsible for creating stress,breaking familys apart,complicating things in relationships ,and increasing the population,not economic.
Fans can imagine bizarre aliens, far-fetched technology and mysterious anomalies in the space-time continuum, but when it comes to imagining a future Earth devoid of poverty, all of a sudden, y'all motherfuckers come down with a bad case of writer's block? As the Church Lady from Saturday Night Live would say, "how convenient (for the taxphobic corporate elite, that is)!"
The hypocrisy is highly suspicious and absolutely staggering, to say the least ...
"Money is a terrible thing. Why do people work at jobs in Star Trek? Why does someone become a baker? Because the family is going to starve to death? No. People become bakers because certain people love the smell of things baking."
--Gene Roddenberry, from Yvonne Fern's book, The Last Conversation
--from the Deep Space Nine episode, You Are Cordially Invited
... a figure of speech, I love it ... And Jake got "paid" by * NEVER * having to worry about rent, food, lights or any of the other essentials of life ...
Nog: What does that mean, exactly?
Jake Sisko: It means we don't need money.
--from the Deep Space Nine episode, In the Cards
NO, WRONG. Social progress is AT LEAST 75% of the equation. Star Trek clearly shows the Ferengi, the Cardassians and other hostiles with the same level of technology as the Federation but the Ferengi are GREEDY scumbags and the Cardassians are worse than the CIA (if that's even possible), so it's NOT what you got (technology), its HOW YOU USE IT AND WHY (sociology).
@TheGreenVoter but your forgetting the ferengi and cardassians are diffent societies and don't work with the federation. and picard only said 'the rest of humanity' not 'the rest of the universe'
I didn't forget any such thing. I don't think you understood the point I was trying to make.
The point is, SOCIAL progress -- NOT techno progress -- is why there's no poverty on Earth. The Ferengi and the Cardassians are examples of races who have the same level of technology as the Human race but are worse off in terms of SOCIAL development, since the Ferengi are capitalists and the Carassians are fascists ... So it's NOT as simple as having a replicator.
"Money is a terrible thing. Why do people work at jobs in Star Trek? Why does someone become a baker? Because the family is going to starve to death? No. People become bakers because certain people love the smell of things baking."
--Gene Roddenberry, from Yvonne Fern's book, The Last Conversation
--from the Deep Space Nine episode, You Are Cordially Invited
... a figure of speech, I love it ... And Jake got "paid" by * NEVER * having to worry about rent, food, lights or any of the other essentials of life ...
Nog: What does that mean, exactly?
Jake Sisko: It means we don't need money.
--from the Deep Space Nine episode, In the Cards
Fans can imagine bizarre aliens, far-fetched technology and mysterious anomalies in the space-time continuum, but when it comes to imagining a future Earth devoid of poverty, all of a sudden, y'all motherfuckers come down with a bad case of writer's block? As the Church Lady from Saturday Night Live would say, "how convenient (for the taxphobic corporate elite, that is)!"
The hypocrisy is highly suspicious and absolutely staggering, to say the least ...
You all know why scarcity exists right? Because of unlimited human WANTS, not needs. If people cared more about each other instead of the accumulation of wealth, homelessness wouldn't exist(there is more than enough resources on this planet to satisfy everyone's needs).
@ddd82451 "Unlimited wants" is a myth sold by Madison Avenue. One can only eat so much food; one's garage or closet only holds so much stuff; there are only 24 hours in a day.
I think greed & unlimited want only happens when people don't really *know* what they want. Then it's never enough because people don't know what need they are trying to satisfy.
Fans can imagine bizarre aliens, far-fetched technology and mysterious anomalies in the space-time continuum, but when it comes to imagining a future Earth devoid of poverty, all of a sudden, y'all motherfuckers come down with a bad case of writer's block? As the Church Lady from Saturday Night Live would say, "how convenient (for the taxphobic corporate elite, that is)!"
The hypocrisy is highly suspicious and absolutely staggering, to say the least ...
"Money is a terrible thing. Why do people work at jobs in Star Trek? Why does someone become a baker? Because the family is going to starve to death? No. People become bakers because certain people love the smell of things baking."
--Gene Roddenberry, from Yvonne Fern's book, The Last Conversation
--from the Deep Space Nine episode, You Are Cordially Invited
... a figure of speech, I love it ... And Jake got "paid" by * NEVER * having to worry about rent, food, lights or any of the other basic essentials of life ...
Star Trek's "United Federation of Planets" reflects the ultimate values of true Progressive Socialism: Free Universal Healthcare, free education, housing, equality, and employment for all, Global Unity and democracy and a sincere desire to keep the planet's ecology healthy. The idea of capitalism, as expressed through unregulated "Free Trade" is idealized in the Ferengi.
@xephyr1000 Yes, but let's be careful about the concept of "free". In common use, it often implies "something for nothing" and that's what the critics focus upon. In any ideal society, the citizens are all contributing members in their own way, in order to make the society run. It's just that the goods and service they offer no longer need to be subordinated to an arbitrary, inadequate measurement mechanism like money. (Note that all the things that make life worth living can't be monetized.
@bmillerbiop True, but the term free, as I mean it, is "it costs nothing"... since money doesn't exist in the UFP, as there is no currency or need for it. What "other" word would you advise using in place of "free" to imply the same understanding?
@xephyr1000 Thanks for nudging me to think about this further. Our current economy is focused mostly on *stuff* - and how much it costs (or whether it’s “free”). Advanced societies will be focused first and foremost on people -- how can we enable everyone to be healthy, happy, productive, contributing members of society?
Money is only needed for allocating scarce resources. In a fully abundant society, there's simply no need for it. So yes, everything can be available (i.e. free).
@bmillerbiop Awesome ;) I'm not sure that "money" or even a form of currency would be required to "allocate scarce resources" as I believe that by then, Science will more efficiently help us to properly allocate resources as needed, and most things will be automatic/handled via technology. The only things we will need a form of "currency" (that I can see) is for non-essential things that go beyond need or supporting society in general, and in that case, maybe a form of "earned credit" system.
@bmillerbiop I think the future is already coming forth as we see menial tasks being more efficiently handled with better standardized results through automation. Most service oriented jobs should be automated to free up people to more important endeavors. Education would greatly elevate the potential of all humans and we would see many more Einsteins and Beethovens, etc when money is no longer a barrier to advancing their innate talents and interests, thus meeting more technical needs better.
@bmillerbiop I know many people fear technological advances as though Sci-Fi horror films will come to fruition and humans will be reduced to mere pests, but I don't believe that. We have always embraced technological changes from eyeglasses to trains to MRIs. Decisions on the best use of scarce resources should never be left to a "popular vote" but rather to an efficient scientific approach that will best utilize the resources to benefit the Earth as a whole. IMHO
@bmillerbiop "Note that all the things that make life worth living can't be monetized"
Agreed. That which makes life worth living is usually a mixture of cultural and individual values. I love the ideals of the UFP in that it focuses on allowing individuals to achieve Maslow's "Self-Actualization." Its also why I support the Occupy Wall Street & The Zeitgeist Movement/The Venus Project efforts.
Fans can imagine bizarre aliens, far-fetched technology and mysterious anomalies in the space-time continuum, but when it comes to imagining a future Earth devoid of poverty, all of a sudden, y'all motherfuckers come down with a bad case of writer's block? As the Church Lady from Saturday Night Live would say, "how convenient (for the taxphobic corporate elite, that is)!"
The hypocrisy is highly suspicious and absolutely staggering, to say the least ...
"I’ve never been motivated by money. I wouldn’t write a script differently if someone said they would give me $20,000 more for good will or whatever.
--Gene Roddenberry
... or in fiction ...
"Money is a terrible thing. Why do people work at jobs in Star Trek? Why does someone become a baker? Because the family is going to starve to death? No. People become bakers because certain people love the smell of things baking."
"A study in the American Journal of Public Health shows that in the United States nearly 45,000 DEATHS annually can be linked to a LACK of health insurance. That’s over 120 preventable DEATHS every day."
--The Capital Times (Wisconsin), 11/22/10
... THAT'S capitalism ! That's GENOCIDE !
In contrast, commies like Doctors Phlox, McCoy, Crusher and Bashir provide free universal health care !
"It will take $30 billion a year to eliminate global hunger. For the price of the Wall Street Bailout, we could make sure no one on Earth goes hungry."
--The Institute for Food and Development Policy
... and there's NO hunger on Roddenberry's future Earth ...
Protein resequencers, unlimited energy and bio-matter whatever will NOT, repeat, NOT change the FACT that SOCIOLOGY -- NOT technology -- is what makes Star Trek Star Trek ...
"[Proof of aliens] unites Humanity in a way no one ever thought possible when they realize they're not alone in the universe. Poverty, disease, war -- they'll all be gone within the next fifty years."
--Star Trek: First Contact
... it's the decision to SHARE; to put people ABOVE profits !
"Denmark and Finland have child-poverty levels of less than 3 percent, and are closely followed by Norway and Sweden, thanks to higher levels of social spending. In the U.S., 17 percent of children live in poverty."
--The Seattle Times, 1/4/06
... "higher levels of social spending," which can ONLY come from TAXING the RICH, which is the first step (of many) insofar as achieving Roddenberry's dream of abolishing poverty ...
"In terms of socialism, a lot to be learned from Scandinavia. In countries like Finland, Norway, Denmark, poverty has almost been eliminated. All people have healthcare as a right of citizenship. College education is available to all people, regardless of income, virtually free. They have a lot of political participation, high voter turnouts. There is a lot to be learned from countries that have created more egalitarian societies than has the United States."
"Twenty years ago when people here thought about socialism they were thinking about the Soviet Union. Now they think about Scandinavia. In Vermont people understand I'm talking about democratic socialism."
--U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders
"I don't mean the 'socialism' of Soviet Russia or any other oppressive regime claiming to be socialist. Rather, a genuine socialism which not only distributes the wealth but maintains liberty."
So, "lanebatts26," because YOU can't wrap YOUR head around it, the poor of the world are to be denied HOPE and CONdemned to even MORE suffering? YOU'RE the one who's beyond retarded.
I think this whole idea of star trek is so beyond retarded...i cant even wrap my head around it.... Ok...so how exactly does this work? how do you pay for hollowsweet time, drinks, labor for ships, food for people, materials to build ships, I mean seriously. The whole concept of money is based of someones time is valuable. Thats why we get paid to do a job. Seriously hate this part of star trek. (even if we could make stuff appear out of thin air)
Fans can imagine bizarre aliens, far-fetched technology and mysterious anomalies in the space-time continuum, but when it comes to imagining a future Earth devoid of poverty, all of a sudden, y'all motherfuckers come down with a bad case of writer's block? As the Church Lady from Saturday Night Live would say, "how convenient (for the taxphobic corporate elite, that is)!"
The hypocrisy is highly suspicious and absolutely staggering, to say the least ...
Well we have 300 more years to go so lets start the engines. Its got to start small though cause you see everything thats big today was small back in the day. The human potential is really the final frontier.
"It will take $30 billion a year to eliminate global hunger. For the price of the Wall Street Bailout, we could make sure no one on Earth goes hungry."
--The Institute for Food and Development Policy
... and there's NO hunger on Roddenberry's future Earth ...
"How about war, disease, hunger. Pretty much wiped 'em out."
--Charles "Trip" Tucker, Star Trek: Enterprise
... so SOMEbody in the future told Wall Street to go fuck itself!
Fans can imagine bizarre aliens, far-fetched technology and mysterious anomalies in the space-time continuum, but when it comes to imagining a future Earth devoid of poverty, all of a sudden, y'all motherfuckers come down with a bad case of writer's block? As the Church Lady from Saturday Night Live would say, "how convenient (for the taxphobic corporate elite, that is)!"
The hypocrisy is highly suspicious and absolutely staggering, to say the least ...
"Twenty years ago when people here thought about socialism they were thinking about the Soviet Union. Now they think about Scandinavia. In Vermont people understand I'm talking about democratic socialism."
--U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders
"I don't mean the 'socialism' of Soviet Russia or any other oppressive regime claiming to be socialist. Rather, a genuine socialism which not only distributes the wealth but maintains liberty."
NO one said anything about money being made obsolete OVERNIGHT, goddamn it! The first stage among MANY is to ...
"Denmark and Finland have child-poverty levels of less than 3 percent, and are closely followed by Norway and Sweden, thanks to higher levels of social spending. In the U.S., 17 percent of children live in poverty."
--The Seattle Times, 1/4/06
... TAX the RICH, or as The Seattle Times put it, "higher levels of social spending" ...
"[Proof of aliens] unites Humanity in a way no one ever thought possible when they realize they're not alone in the universe. Poverty, disease, war, they'll all be gone within the next 50 years."
--from the movie, Star Trek: First Contact
... First Contact was in 2063 ... Fifty years from then is 2113 -- and I know goddamn well Earth was NOT depicted in Star Trek as having replicators at that point! They're commies, period.
@Keitaro2011 There's no practical support for Capitalism as it depletes resources and UNDER UTILIZES those resources through the generation of profit as profit cannot exist without unequal trade and the unequal trade is where resources are under utilized - Also the unnecessary waste of resources caused by advertising and money spent on the competition between companies further waste resources. Capitalism is dependent on science, but science is not dependent on Capitalism. Truth has no price tag.
Well sure, we all need something meaningful and contributory to do (i.e. "work"), but why does it always have to be anal-retentively measured in dollars and tit-for-tat exchange? In a truly abundant society (which we could have today were it not for artificially created scarcity) people could offer their talents toward sustaining a healthy, vibrant society - which would then sustain them in return.
What you're forgetting about is the fact that we can't just scrap money, as though it were that easy. Until AI reaches the point where machines can provide our every need, we will need to work in order to ensure our own survival. And without a medium of exchange, we would have to resort to old fashioned bartering and trading of goods/services, which is like money but far less efficient.
When money becomes obsolete it will be because we no longer have any use for it. Trying to force money to be obsolete before its time is a lot like trying to stop people from drinking by making it illegal--all you succeed in doing is moving the activity underground. If you really want to see the end of money, push to advance technology and artificial intelligence to a point where human survival costs essentially nothing (like tap water).
Fans can imagine bizarre aliens, far-fetched technology and mysterious anomalies in the space-time continuum, but when it comes to imagining a future Earth devoid of poverty, all of a sudden, y'all motherfuckers come down with a bad case of writer's block? As the Church Lady from Saturday Night Live would say, "how convenient (for the taxphobic corporate elite, that is)!"
The hypocrisy is highly suspicious and absolutely staggering, to say the least ...
"Twenty years ago when people here thought about socialism they were thinking about the Soviet Union. Now they think about Scandinavia. In Vermont people understand I'm talking about democratic socialism."
--U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders
"I don't mean the 'socialism' of Soviet Russia or any other oppressive regime claiming to be socialist. Rather, a genuine socialism which not only distributes the wealth but maintains liberty."
Individual freedom means free speech, freedom of religion, gay marriage and the use of SOME ... CERTAIN drugs ...
Individual freedom does NOT, repeat, NOT mean wallowing in a MTV Cribs mansion while millions are homeless. Individual freedom does NOT, repeat, NOT mean making billions of dollars when you can easily live with millions.
"It will take $30 billion a year to eliminate global hunger. For the price of the Wall Street Bailout, we could make sure no one on Earth goes hungry."
--The Institute for Food and Development Policy
... and there's NO hunger on Roddenberry's future Earth ...
"Twenty years ago when people here thought about socialism they were thinking about the Soviet Union. Now they think about Scandinavia. In Vermont people understand I'm talking about democratic socialism."
--U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders
"I don't mean the 'socialism' of Soviet Russia or any other oppressive regime claiming to be socialist. Rather, a genuine socialism which not only distributes the wealth but maintains liberty."
"In terms of socialism, a lot to be learned from Scandinavia. In countries like Finland, Norway, Denmark, poverty has almost been eliminated. All people have healthcare as a right of citizenship. College education is available to all people, regardless of income, virtually free. They have a lot of political participation, high voter turnouts. There is a lot to be learned from countries that have created more egalitarian societies than has the United States."
"There will come a day when money is non existent but to try and do it at this point in history would collapse our civilization"
It's called STAGES, son. Relax. Here's Stage One ...
"Denmark and Finland have child-poverty levels of less than 3 percent, and are closely followed by Norway and Sweden, thanks to higher levels of social spending. In the U.S., 17 percent of children live in poverty."
--The Seattle Times, 1/4/06
... "higher levels of social spending" i.e. TAX the RICH ...
"Shouldn’t we also be willing to explore vigorously every possible means to prevent nuclear war? Shouldn’t we consider in every nation major changes in the traditional ways of doing things? A fundamental restructuring of ECONOMIC, political, social and religious institutions?"
Oh, and doN'T quote Carl Sagan again -- the man was all about making the world a better place; he was NOT about hiding ...
"The world impoverishes itself by spending $1 trillion a year on preparations for war. And employing perhaps half the scientists and high technologists on the planet in military endeavors. How would we explain all this to a dispassionate extraterrestrial observer? What account would we give of our stewardship of the planet Earth?"
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."
--V for Vendetta
... except it's clear you're VERY afraid of the gov't, or more to the point, you're afraid of accepting your responsibility as a citizen to DEMAND that the gov't do right by its people. DEMAND that it TAX the RICH withOUT resorting to Stalinism. Sounds hard? Sure it is, but that's called being an ADULT.
"It will take $30 billion a year to eliminate global hunger. For the price of the Wall Street Bailout, we could make sure no one on Earth goes hungry."
--The Institute for Food and Development Policy
... and there's NO hunger on Roddenberry's future Earth ...
"Twenty years ago when people here thought about socialism they were thinking about the Soviet Union. Now they think about Scandinavia. In Vermont people understand I'm talking about democratic socialism."
--U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders
"I don't mean the 'socialism' of Soviet Russia or any other oppressive regime claiming to be socialist. Rather, a genuine socialism which not only distributes the wealth but maintains liberty."
"In terms of socialism, a lot to be learned from Scandinavia. In countries like Finland, Norway, Denmark, poverty has almost been eliminated. All people have healthcare as a right of citizenship. College education is available to all people, regardless of income, virtually free. They have a lot of political participation, high voter turnouts. There is a lot to be learned from countries that have created more egalitarian societies than has the United States."
"There will come a day when money is non existent but to try and do it at this point in history would collapse our civilization"
It's called STAGES, son. Relax. Here's Stage One ...
"Denmark and Finland have child-poverty levels of less than 3 percent, and are closely followed by Norway and Sweden, thanks to higher levels of social spending. In the U.S., 17 percent of children live in poverty."
--The Seattle Times, 1/4/06
... "higher levels of social spending" i.e. TAX the RICH ...
Sorry to be blunt but this guy is a total hippie. Societies problems are complex and won't be solved so easily. Do your homework people and study some economics instead of watching the game! Read Keynes & Hayek/Friedman/MIses, learn about the federal reserve, perpetual debt & wars, fractional reserve banking & inflation. There will come a day when money is non existent but do try and do it at this point in history would collapse our civilization, and we may not have another shot at it.
"Money is a terrible thing. Why do people work at jobs in Star Trek? Why does someone become a baker? Because the family is going to starve to death? No. People become bakers because certain people love the smell of things baking."
Fans can imagine bizarre aliens, far-fetched technology and mysterious anomalies in the space-time continuum, but when it comes to imagining a future Earth devoid of poverty, all of a sudden, y'all motherfuckers come down with a bad case of writer's block? As the Church Lady from Saturday Night Live would say, "how convenient (for the taxphobic corporate elite, that is)!"
The hypocrisy is highly suspicious and absolutely staggering, to say the least ...
"I’ve never been motivated by money. I wouldn’t write a script differently if someone said they would give me $20,000 more for good will or whatever."
--Gene Roddenberry, from his 1991 interview with The Humanist
"The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of Humanity."
"In terms of socialism, there is a lot to be learned from Scandinavia ... poverty has almost been eliminated. All people have healthcare as a right of citizenship. College education is available to all people, regardless of income, virtually free ... They have a lot of political participation, high voter turnouts. There is a lot to be learned from countries that have created more egalitarian societies than has the United States."
"Twenty years ago when people here thought about socialism they were thinking about the Soviet Union. Now they think about Scandinavia. In Vermont people understand I'm talking about democratic socialism."
--U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders
The ONLY "freedom" capitalists care about is wallowing in a MTV Cribs mansion while millions are homeless! They CONstantly invoke Stalin and ignore Scandinavia because of their GREED; they're afraid Scandinavia, and Star Trek, will inspire the poor!
@TheGreenVoter "The ONLY "freedom" capitalists care about is wallowing in a MTV Cribs mansion while millions are homeless! They CONstantly invoke Stalin and ignore Scandinavia because of their GREED; they're afraid Scandinavia, and Star Trek, will inspire the poor!"- I disagree, what we have in the US is a society that values the WRONG things. Also, consider what's happening around the world before you give away power and consider whom the leaders are & what their agendas are. Be SMART!
@TheGreenVoter “One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. The bamboozle has captured us. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” - Carl Sagan
@TheGreenVoter “If we can't think for ourselves, if we're unwilling to question authority, then we're just putty in the hands of those in power. But if the citizens are educated and form their own opinions, then those in power work for us. In every country, we should be teaching our children the scientific method and the reasons for a Bill of Rights. With it comes a certain decency, humility and community spirit.
@TheGreenVoter continued...... In the demon-haunted world that we inhabit by virtue of being human, this may be all that stands between us and the enveloping darkness.” -Carl Sagan
So fucking sick of this irrational, HYPOCRITCAL fear of BIG GOVERNMENT ...
"Wealthfare -- the money government gives away to corporations and wealthy individuals -- costs us more than $815 billion a year. That's more than four times what we spend on welfare for the poor."
--Mark Zepezauer, from his book, Take the Rich off Welfare
... now what do these Ayn Rand humping, Milton Friedman worshipping, libertarian lapdogs for the corporate elite got to say about that? Not a goddamn thang ...
"I’ve never been motivated by money. I wouldn’t write a script differently if someone said they would give me $20,000 more for good will or whatever."
--Gene Roddenberry, from his 1991 interview with The Humanist
"The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of Humanity."
"In terms of socialism, there is a lot to be learned from Scandinavia ... poverty has almost been eliminated. All people have healthcare as a right of citizenship. College education is available to all people, regardless of income, virtually free ... They have a lot of political participation, high voter turnouts. There is a lot to be learned from countries that have created more egalitarian societies than has the United States."
"Twenty years ago when people here thought about socialism they were thinking about the Soviet Union. Now they think about Scandinavia. In Vermont people understand I'm talking about democratic socialism."
--U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders
The ONLY "liberty" libertarians care about is wallowing in a MTV Cribs mansion while millions are homeless! They CONstantly invoke Stalin and ignore Scandinavia because of their GREED; they're afraid Scandinavia, and Star Trek, will inspire the poor!
I'm Russian, so... dear Americans, can you explain one simplest thing? You so hate communism... yet, as soon as you trying to imagine the better society of future - you describe the typical communist society again and again. Not only in this Star Trek series, but also in some other book, incl. even the book of some christian author (forgot his name), who tried to describe the social structure of Heaven )))
@AtollRu Well, you're partly right. But both capitalism and communism suffer from the same problem - people exist primarily to serve the interests of abstract institutions. In communism, people are effectively enslaved to the State whereas under capitalism, it's the corporations and banks. I long for the day when all institutions exist primarily to serve the people rather than the reverse!
@bmillerbiop OK, it's clear. But the term "communism" (according to Marx) mean classless & STATEless society of distant future. Even the Marx in his 19 century wasn't so naive to think this can be achieved just as result of some "proletarian revolution". USSR or DPRK weren't communist societies (nor even close), no matter how they called themselves. Real communism should be result of long technologic & social evolution. Money, social classes & exploitation will not be banned by...
(2)...some powerfull Communist State. More likely, they will become the useless anachronism & will die by "natural death" as result of normal historical development. Maybe, exactly in 24 century :)
@nobodysperfect06 Well, I like to think of it more as "work" than "job". Job is some rigamarole you have to go through mainly to get money. In a moneyless society, where needs are met by technology and intelligent social design, people are free to do meaningful work that is a genuine contribution to the world.
yeah basically i'm just frustrated because of the horrible economy that has been like this for the past 2 or 3 years now, it gets irritating, frustrating, applying at so many places and you don't get hired, not only that, not even an interview, what pisses me off more is that employers want you to have experience, but how do you gain experience if nobody will give you a chance? But since we still live in a Money-based society, I need to get paid in order to make a living
it's more than just not fair, it's not right in my opinion on how employers are extremely reluctant to hire people that are inexperienced, because in life there is always a first time for everything, how does anyone expect to learn if nobody will give you a chance? and i'm talking about entry-level jobs, retail, customer-service jobs, grocery stores, fast-food places, movie theaters, etc.
Fans can imagine bizarre aliens, far-fetched technology and mysterious anomalies in the space-time continuum, but when it comes to imagining a future Earth devoid of poverty, all of a sudden, y'all motherfuckers come down with a bad case of writer's block? As the Church Lady from Saturday Night Live would say, "how convenient (for the taxphobic corporate elite, that is)!"
The hypocrisy is highly suspicious and absolutely staggering, to say the least ...
"In terms of socialism, there is a lot to be learned from Scandinavia. In countries like Finland, Norway, Denmark, poverty has almost been eliminated. All people have healthcare as a right of citizenship. College education is available to all people, regardless of income, virtually free."
--U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders
... what YOU have in mind is some Stalinistic stereotype straight out of Patrick Swayze's Red Dawn -- as is the case with all too many ...
Nonterastor, it's clear you doN'T know what you're talking about: STALINISTS use " supressive force." REAL commies, like the ones in Scandinavia, doN'T ...
"Twenty years ago when people here thought about socialism they were thinking about the Soviet Union. Now they think about Scandinavia. In Vermont people understand I'm talking about democratic socialism."
--U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders
... if you want blacks to make the distinction between most whites and the KKK, then come correct!
Commerce is the greatest tool invented by man. It ensures competition, which is invariably good. If we get rid of money, it will just be replaced by some other form of currency (gold pressed latinum anyone?). Commerce drives the value chain and prioritizes societies projects. People gain meaningful work and are encouraged to succeed (lest someone else do it first). Get rid of money? Will never happen and is a bad idea.
@CommitToFocus Competition was a appropriate to a more primitive stage of social development, basically, when the "laws of the jungle" held sway. For the future, we will get much farther with collaboration. Competition identifies the one entity who is "best". Collaboration leverages what is best in everyone, so that the whole becomes more than the sum of the parts. I use the analogy of the human body: we are healthy when our organs cooperate, not were they to compete.
@bmillerbiop You are so goddamn right, and I am happy that you tell off all these wannabe alpha males that open their big yaps because they got a bachelors degree in that, or a job that pays this much money. I am not saying this as a run of the mill liberal junkie either. Truth of the matter is that most people who wind up with big money usually do so through luck, and not skill or hard work, anyone could have come up with goddamn scrabbles for iPhones!
"SCPF," Zeitgeist is colossally overrated. They combine the flakiness of a hippie with the callousness of a yuppie. They're under the delusion that automation; that robot laborers are supposedly the answer. THIS is the answer ...
"The ultimate solution is not with the people on top. The ultimate solution is for people in the streets to create an atmosphere for people on top to be accountable."
@TheGreenVoter Well, the Zeitgeist films do contain a lot of good ideas and truth, but I agree that their solution: "better technology" is probably not going to make the difference. The problem is really more one of the human spirit. So long as we continue to see each other as competitors, rivals, and enemies, things won't change. But when we realize that "everyone does better when everyone does better", that's when a world of peace, opportunity, and abundance for all will be possible.
@TheGreenVoter Well, the Zeitgeist films do contain a lot of good ideas and truth, but I agree that their solution: "better technology" is probably not going to make the difference. The problem is really more one of the human spirit. So long as we continue to see each other as competitors, rivals, and enemies, things won't change. But when we realize that "everyone does better when everyone does better", that's when a world of peace, opportunity, and abundance for all will be possible.
The Zeitgeist Movement (TZM) has been showing that we have the ability to generate energy, food, housing, health and education for everyone in the world, while, at the same time, we are able to ELIMINATE OUR ECONOMICAL, SOCIAL & ECOLOGICAL CRISIS along with corruption, poverty, abuse of power, unemployment, social stratification, and other factors that hinder the life and sustainability of the planet and its inhabitants.To know more about it, watch: "Zeitgeist Addendum" - It is on youtube
@890buba People mostly need to control others when they're fearful/insecure themselves. In a society where everyone is secure, that problem should diminish. As to competition, let them play games! -- Or better yet, let them outdo each other in creating something new and cool, that benefits self and society.
@890buba People mainly need to compete and control when they are afraid of others and insecure about their ability to survive. In a benign, enlightened, "Star-Trekkian" society, those fears would have little basis.
@890buba A person or a small group of people do not have control. It is the majority that for some reason or another have given up their power to that small group. If say Hilter ordered me to kill you and I didn't. Then ordered you to kill me and you didn't. Well Hilter is looking pretty silly now sense we have refused to let him take or power away from us. So the really a government is only as powerful as the majority allow it.
I truly do hope that one day mankind will rise above the continual striving for wealth and power and focus on the betterment of all over just themselves or their country, but we still have a way's to go before we reach that time. However I've been wrong before.
merekbow 2 weeks ago
@merekbow Sometimes big, complex changes can happen more quickly than you expect. Two examples I think of are, how after decades of "cold war", how quickly the Soviet Union came apart. Also, how smoking went from being "cool" to smokers being treated like social pariahs. So we might reach the "promised land" yet in our lifetimes!
bmillerbiop 2 weeks ago
@merekbow Bodhisattva
pixusbubblejet 2 weeks ago
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@merekbow
KEEP HOPE ALIVE ..!
"One of the primary features of Star Trek that made it different from other shows was it believed that Humans are improving – they will vastly improve [by] the 23rd century."
--Gene Roddenberry, from Entertainment Tonight, 1986
TheGreenVoter 1 week ago
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Replicators, protein resequencers & bio-matter-whatever woN'T alter the FACT that SOCIOLOGY, NOT technology, defines Star Trek...
"[Proof of aliens] unites Humanity in a way no one ever thought possible when they realize they're not alone in the universe. Poverty, disease, war, they'll all be gone in 50 years."
--Star Trek: First Contact
...it's the decision to SHARE; to put people ABOVE profits!
TheGreenVoter 3 weeks ago
"[The Human Nature MYTH is] certainly wrong. Furthermore, it's dangerous. Wrong, because there is no real evidence for it. Not in genetics, not in zoology, not in psychology, not in anthropology, not in history, not even in the ordinary experience of soldiers in war. Dangerous because it deflects attention from the non-biological causes of violence."
--Prof. Howard Zinn (1922 - 2010)
"Non-biological causes," as in CULTURE ...
TheGreenVoter 4 weeks ago
Resource Based Economy 2012!!
TheDarkFenix 1 month ago
Nice misleading thumbnail. Thumbs-down.
TolstoyKafkaEvsky 1 month ago
"Social action must be animated by a vision of a future society."
--Professor Noam Chomsky
TheGreenVoter 1 month ago
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"In his vision of the future, Gene [Roddenberry] pushed the principles of equality a little further forward. In StarTrek equality is kinetic, quick and real. It is not equal opportunity, but equal reality. It means that everyone's stomach IS full, not potentially full; & that everyone's home is a decent place to live."
--Yvonne Fern, Gene Roddenberry: The Last Conversation (University of California Press, 1994)
She was with him when he died. If anybody knows the deal, it's HER
TheGreenVoter 1 month ago
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"[In Star Trek] there is no pay for any work because one works for the love of it & no other reason."
--Yvonne Fern, The Last Conversation
...Star Trek's characters, at least, the GOOD guys (Starfleet/the Federation) BARTER their LABORS of LOVE...
"When the New World Economy took shape in the late 22nd century & money went the way of the dinosaur, Fort Knox was turned into a museum."
--Tom Paris, from the Star Trek: Voyager episode, Dark Frontier
TheGreenVoter 1 month ago
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"Money is a terrible thing. Why do people work at jobs in Star Trek? Why does someone become a baker? Because the family is going to starve to death? No. People become bakers because certain people love the smell of things baking."
--Gene Roddenberry, Yvonne Fern's The Last Conversation
Gillian Taylor: Don't tell me they don't use money in the 23rd century?
Captain Kirk: Well, we doN'T.
--from Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
TheGreenVoter 1 month ago
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Jake Sisko: I sold my 1st book.
Quark: How much did you get for it?
Jake Sisko: It's just a figure of speech.
--from the DS9 episode, "You Are Cordially Invited"
...a figure of speech, LOVE it. Jake got "paid" via the Federation's honor system: He BARTERS his LABOR of LOVE for WHATEVER; for someone ELSE'S labor of love...
Nog: What does that mean exactly?
Jake Sisko: It means we don't need money.
--from the DS9 episode, "In the Cards"
TheGreenVoter 1 month ago
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Replicators, protein resequencers, unlimited energy & bio-matter whatever will NOT, repeat, NOT change the FACT that SOCIOLOGY, NOT technology, defines Star Trek...
"[Proof of aliens] unites Humanity in a way no one ever thought possible when they realize they're not alone in the universe. Poverty, disease, war, they'll all be gone in 50 years."
--Star Trek: First Contact
...it's the decision to SHARE; to put people ABOVE profits!
TheGreenVoter 1 month ago
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"It'll take $30 billion a year to eliminate global hunger.For the price of the WallStreetBailout we could make sure no one on Earth goes hungry."
--The Institute For Food & Development Policy
...& there's NO hunger on Roddenberry's future Earth...
"War, disease, hunger? Pretty much wiped 'em out."
--Charles "Trip" Tucker, Star Trek: Enterprise
...so SOMEone in the future told Wall St. to fuck itself!
TheGreenVoter 1 month ago
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The root word for communism is communal or commune -- and in Star Trek, the Human race became one big commune after THIS ...
"[Proof of aliens] unites Humanity in a way no one ever thought possible when they realize they're not alone in the universe. Poverty, disease, war, they'll all be gone in 50 years."
--Counselor Troi, from the movie, Star Trek: First Contact
... hey! Include THAT scene in this youtube clip!
TheGreenVoter 1 month ago
the venus project by jaques fresco ! watch zeitgeist !
turanspirit 1 month ago
IN MY OPINION THERE ARE 3 BIG SCIENCE BREAKTHROUGHS THAT WILL LEAD TO HUMANITIES FREEDOM AND A MONEY FREE WORLD, THEY ARE:
1- "ZERO POINT ENERGY"
2- "REPLICATOR"
3- "FULL AUTOMATION"
ISMOPANAMA 1 month ago
@ISMOPANAMA I'd add a psychological breakthrough too - a shift from the basic attitude of consumption and competition to an attitude of contribution and compassion.
bmillerbiop 1 month ago
@bmillerbiop I know what you mean. In order to purify the Exterior Universe ("Reality") we must first purify the Inner One First.
We need more "Great Minds" like Jacque Fresco and Peter Joseph.
Just yesterday I saw the film "AGORA" which is based on the final years of the Alexandrian Philosopher HYPATIA. She was ahead of her time and I actually got watery eyed knowing that this "Human Monsters" killed her in such a horrific way for no Reasonable Reason at all.
In Lak'ech & Namaste
ISMOPANAMA 1 month ago
@bmillerbiop Guess we need Bibles.
Idazmi7 1 month ago
@bmillerbiop That's not so much a requirement as a result of humanity entering a state of post-scarcity. What use is wealth and great possessions when none of that is necessary to satisfy your personal needs? Instead it becomes a limiter, because while you own property, property also owns you. It's not a coincidence that federation starships aren't the cramped and tight quarters like those of our current military or those of the federations klingon adversaries.
tobiasaberg 2 weeks ago
@ISMOPANAMA Add a shift in human nature(that is the need to work for self improvement instead of fiscal renumeration)and you have something called post scarcity.
ddd82451 1 month ago
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@ISMOPANAMA
You're WRONG ... SOCIOLOGY -- NOT technology -- is what defines Star Trek...
"[Proof of aliens] unites Humanity in a way no one ever thought possible when they realize they're not alone in the universe. Poverty, disease, war, they'll all be gone in 50 years."
--Star Trek: First Contact
... it's the decision to SHARE; to put people ABOVE profits!
TheGreenVoter 3 weeks ago
Comment removed
ISMOPANAMA 1 month ago
@ISMOPANAMA oops sorry ISMOPANAMA - I intended to remove/readd my reply above but deleted this comment by mistake. Please repost!
bmillerbiop 1 month ago
The woman should've said: "What, you're communists?"
RevanorSzeged 1 month ago
@RevanorSzeged Hah! Calif gov. Jerry Brown used to have a radio show and once observed that most people only have two brain cells when it comes to the economy: If it's not "capitalism", then it has to be "communism".
Let's ditch all the "-isms" and just create a system that enables people to reach their full potential to be happy, healthy, contributing citizens. (We might call it "people-ism" but that doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.)
bmillerbiop 1 month ago
@bmillerbiop
"Let's ditch all the -isms"
NO, let's NOT - there's enough IGNORANCE in America as it is (watch Mike Judge's Idiocracy to see what I mean). White folks need to STOP using Patrick Swayze's movie, Red Dawn, as a barometer.
A fascist has an evil SOCIAL & an evil FISCAL policy
A Stalinist has an evil SOCIAL policy & a good FISCAL policy
A libertarian has a good SOCIAL policy & a TOTALLY EVIL FISCAL policy
An actual communist has a good SOCIAL policy AND a good FISCAL policy
GOT IT?
TheGreenVoter 3 weeks ago
there is abundance all around us when were not motivated by money :) people are realising this now 2012 will be a fantastic year for the people
ayejocky 2 months ago
@ayejocky amen, bro! Hold that thought!
bmillerbiop 2 months ago
i think it would be easier getting rid of the corrupt governments than getting every man on the planet rich with currency. bring on the peaceful revolution
ayejocky 2 months ago
@ayejocky It's a chicken-or-egg thing. 90% of the reason why governments are corrupt is related to money. You're right that everybody can't be "rich" in the traditional sense (i.e. money) but everyone *can* have what they need for a life of comfort, safety, opportunity, and the ability to make a positive contribution to the world. I think that's the point of the above Star Trek clip.
bmillerbiop 2 months ago
Resource Based Economy, The Venus Project, Jacque Fresco. Look it up, make it work! Be the change. :)
GoodFortuneOfficial 2 months ago
Thank you Bill for posting your video.
A possible explanation could be an energy acquisition. Energy based on how much you spend Physically, Mentally and Psychological. Energy System. After all, we all feel positive after doing activities that come from heart and intellectual mind.
KaiserXCaesar 3 months ago
@KaiserXCaesar You could simply describe that as 'to better one's self', just like Picard just did in this video. No need to call it anything different, lol. Look up: Resource Based Economy, The Venus Project, and watch the documentary 'Zeitgeist: Moving Forward'. It'll enlighten you! On the same topic.
GoodFortuneOfficial 2 months ago
I have loved this clip for a long time. Thank you for posting it here!
SteveBrant55 3 months ago
@SteveBrant55 You're welcome Steve! I too have wanted to see it online for years.
bmillerbiop 3 months ago
Capitalism debunked: Indigenous peoples still live without the "incentive" of money, making shelters, providing for themselves. Profit systems under utilize resources. Profit systems cannot exist without poverty, unemployment, inadequate wages. Poverty causes 99% of crime. Profit systems are impractical and unnecessary. Profit systems require class-ism, totalitarian systems and always corrupts Governments.
johnniefive80 3 months ago
The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force,we work to better our selves,what he means ,is that humanity works together as a whole to make the world a better place,for its children,and future children,but as it stands right now,we are going in circles,humanity does not plan ahead for the next 100 years,we plan ahead when it comes to energy,what country do we attack next,if children are important, why do we segregate one child from another when it comes to education?Rich and poor...?
Superpureeliteful 3 months ago
@Superpureeliteful Yep - that's what prompted me to make/post this video in the first place!
bmillerbiop 3 months ago
@bmillerbiop Every time you find a double standard that is UN-discovered,you should write it down,and make a video out of it,i have discovered many,i don't know why they exist,i only have questions.there are questions that decent people are afraid to ask,because they have so much fear,or they know very little of what is going on around them,but they can feel deep down that their is something wrong,but they can never pin point it.i usually write down my thoughts on science,philosophy and ideas.
Superpureeliteful 3 months ago
@Superpureeliteful Don't know. But I wish the world was made of more people like you.
ddd82451 2 months ago
@ddd82451 There are many people like me,they just don't have a voice,because of fear, ignorance stifles their opinions,there is more ignorance in this world than rational behavior,ignorance is just another form of pollution,ignorance is a majority,every body's state of mind is on a different level, have you ever heard the saying "Ignorance is bliss",well that saying applies to the filthy rich,they are running out of ideas and time,they are a dying culture,and they don't know it yet.
Superpureeliteful 1 month ago
@Superpureeliteful That is true. Although I do wish that this post scarcity society becomes a reality one day!
ddd82451 1 month ago
@ddd82451 In order for the post scarcity society to work on a foundation level,and to create a higher standard of living,the population around the world has come down a bit,in order for there to be an abundance of materials and resources,Education would have to be left wide open for all walks of life,the rich and powerful would be totally against it,they would do everything in their power to undermine it,they would label a post scarcity society movememnt as a Left wing Communist idea.
Superpureeliteful 1 month ago
@Superpureeliteful If a replicator(Star Trek) was invented, the only way for it be accepted into society is that people have to realize that everyone in society is valuable: not just the bank accountants, or business owners, or lawyers, but everyone: teachers, firemen,policemen, construction workers.
But in Star Trek, the reason it worked was because of WW3(billions dead), near total anarchy,
disease and poverty running rampant: humanity had to change in order to survive.
ddd82451 1 month ago
@ddd82451 This video is not about technology,it is about money,and material need,society is to distant and not advanced enough to to have something like that,if a replicator existed,every one would want one,but it would not solve all social problems,it would never be released on the market,because if such technology existed,it would solve the worlds hunger problems,and it would cause the food market to fall,but it would not solve the real problems.
Superpureeliteful 1 month ago
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@Superpureeliteful
"[A replicator] would not solve all social problems, it would never be released on the market, because if such technology existed, it would solve the world's hunger problems, and it would cause the food market to fall."
Thank you! I'm glad SOMEbody understands! What has to happen FIRST is for the masses to finally acknowledge that corporate greed ("the food market") is an inherent evil that canNOT be reformed.
TheGreenVoter 1 month ago
@ddd82451 Let me tell you the future problems are ,no.1 Population,no.2 Food,and energy,the popualtion is causing the cost of materials going up,money is the root cause of divorce,and consumerist society does not keep families together,children born into a consumer society,are careless with money,and if they are born into a family were there parents are divorced over money,they carry on the same traditions,because the consumer society is not protecting the family,over population....
Superpureeliteful 1 month ago
@ddd82451 Which is why the price of everything is going up in price,and now there are even more and more divorces over money,there is more poverty,there is a lack of understanding in family economics,because they are not educating teenagers for tomorrow how to live,and they keep carrying on "living the Americàn Dream",the society is responsible for keeping family in check.
Superpureeliteful 1 month ago
@ddd82451 I do blame women for alot of these things,because women are soppose to be at the center of a family,and what has happened,is the consumer society has exploited women to be more greedy with money when it comes to alamony,and they are havng children with many rich men,do you know all these celebritys who have been divorced 10 times,they should not be role models for women,like Elizabeth taylor etc,they should be labeled as hopeless romantics,their way of life is very wrong.
Superpureeliteful 1 month ago
@ddd82451 There is a fundemental problem with money and divorce, for example,.if a woman divorces a man because he cant afford to look after his family,which is very common at the moment,she fucks off with the children,and probably finds another man,she re-marries and a new baby,and her x-husband ends up with a new woman and starts a new family,you see money is responsible for creating stress,breaking familys apart,complicating things in relationships ,and increasing the population,not economic.
Superpureeliteful 1 month ago
Fans can imagine bizarre aliens, far-fetched technology and mysterious anomalies in the space-time continuum, but when it comes to imagining a future Earth devoid of poverty, all of a sudden, y'all motherfuckers come down with a bad case of writer's block? As the Church Lady from Saturday Night Live would say, "how convenient (for the taxphobic corporate elite, that is)!"
The hypocrisy is highly suspicious and absolutely staggering, to say the least ...
TheGreenVoter 3 months ago
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"Money is a terrible thing. Why do people work at jobs in Star Trek? Why does someone become a baker? Because the family is going to starve to death? No. People become bakers because certain people love the smell of things baking."
--Gene Roddenberry, from Yvonne Fern's book, The Last Conversation
TheGreenVoter 3 months ago
Jake Sisko: I sold my first book today.
Quark: Really? How much did you get for it?
Jake Sisko: It's just a figure of speech.
--from the Deep Space Nine episode, You Are Cordially Invited
... a figure of speech, I love it ... And Jake got "paid" by * NEVER * having to worry about rent, food, lights or any of the other essentials of life ...
Nog: What does that mean, exactly?
Jake Sisko: It means we don't need money.
--from the Deep Space Nine episode, In the Cards
TheGreenVoter 3 months ago
NO, WRONG. Social progress is AT LEAST 75% of the equation. Star Trek clearly shows the Ferengi, the Cardassians and other hostiles with the same level of technology as the Federation but the Ferengi are GREEDY scumbags and the Cardassians are worse than the CIA (if that's even possible), so it's NOT what you got (technology), its HOW YOU USE IT AND WHY (sociology).
TheGreenVoter 3 months ago 12
@TheGreenVoter but your forgetting the ferengi and cardassians are diffent societies and don't work with the federation. and picard only said 'the rest of humanity' not 'the rest of the universe'
martinsbigmouth 1 month ago
@martinsbigmouth
Huh?
I didn't forget any such thing. I don't think you understood the point I was trying to make.
The point is, SOCIAL progress -- NOT techno progress -- is why there's no poverty on Earth. The Ferengi and the Cardassians are examples of races who have the same level of technology as the Human race but are worse off in terms of SOCIAL development, since the Ferengi are capitalists and the Carassians are fascists ... So it's NOT as simple as having a replicator.
TheGreenVoter 1 month ago
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"Money is a terrible thing. Why do people work at jobs in Star Trek? Why does someone become a baker? Because the family is going to starve to death? No. People become bakers because certain people love the smell of things baking."
--Gene Roddenberry, from Yvonne Fern's book, The Last Conversation
TheGreenVoter 4 months ago
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Jake Sisko: I sold my first book today.
Quark: Really? How much did you get for it?
Jake Sisko: It's just a figure of speech.
--from the Deep Space Nine episode, You Are Cordially Invited
... a figure of speech, I love it ... And Jake got "paid" by * NEVER * having to worry about rent, food, lights or any of the other essentials of life ...
Nog: What does that mean, exactly?
Jake Sisko: It means we don't need money.
--from the Deep Space Nine episode, In the Cards
TheGreenVoter 4 months ago
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Fans can imagine bizarre aliens, far-fetched technology and mysterious anomalies in the space-time continuum, but when it comes to imagining a future Earth devoid of poverty, all of a sudden, y'all motherfuckers come down with a bad case of writer's block? As the Church Lady from Saturday Night Live would say, "how convenient (for the taxphobic corporate elite, that is)!"
The hypocrisy is highly suspicious and absolutely staggering, to say the least ...
TheGreenVoter 4 months ago
You all know why scarcity exists right? Because of unlimited human WANTS, not needs. If people cared more about each other instead of the accumulation of wealth, homelessness wouldn't exist(there is more than enough resources on this planet to satisfy everyone's needs).
ddd82451 4 months ago
@ddd82451 "Unlimited wants" is a myth sold by Madison Avenue. One can only eat so much food; one's garage or closet only holds so much stuff; there are only 24 hours in a day.
I think greed & unlimited want only happens when people don't really *know* what they want. Then it's never enough because people don't know what need they are trying to satisfy.
bmillerbiop 4 months ago 4
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Fans can imagine bizarre aliens, far-fetched technology and mysterious anomalies in the space-time continuum, but when it comes to imagining a future Earth devoid of poverty, all of a sudden, y'all motherfuckers come down with a bad case of writer's block? As the Church Lady from Saturday Night Live would say, "how convenient (for the taxphobic corporate elite, that is)!"
The hypocrisy is highly suspicious and absolutely staggering, to say the least ...
TheGreenVoter 4 months ago
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"Money is a terrible thing. Why do people work at jobs in Star Trek? Why does someone become a baker? Because the family is going to starve to death? No. People become bakers because certain people love the smell of things baking."
--Gene Roddenberry, from Yvonne Fern's book, The Last Conversation
TheGreenVoter 4 months ago
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Jake Sisko: I sold my first book today.
Quark: Really? How much did you get for it?
Jake Sisko: It's just a figure of speech.
--from the Deep Space Nine episode, You Are Cordially Invited
... a figure of speech, I love it ... And Jake got "paid" by * NEVER * having to worry about rent, food, lights or any of the other basic essentials of life ...
Nog: What does that mean, exactly?
Jake Sisko: It means we don't need money.
--from the Deep Space Nine episode, In the Cards
TheGreenVoter 4 months ago
Star Trek's "United Federation of Planets" reflects the ultimate values of true Progressive Socialism: Free Universal Healthcare, free education, housing, equality, and employment for all, Global Unity and democracy and a sincere desire to keep the planet's ecology healthy. The idea of capitalism, as expressed through unregulated "Free Trade" is idealized in the Ferengi.
xephyr1000 4 months ago
@xephyr1000 Yes, but let's be careful about the concept of "free". In common use, it often implies "something for nothing" and that's what the critics focus upon. In any ideal society, the citizens are all contributing members in their own way, in order to make the society run. It's just that the goods and service they offer no longer need to be subordinated to an arbitrary, inadequate measurement mechanism like money. (Note that all the things that make life worth living can't be monetized.
bmillerbiop 4 months ago
@bmillerbiop True, but the term free, as I mean it, is "it costs nothing"... since money doesn't exist in the UFP, as there is no currency or need for it. What "other" word would you advise using in place of "free" to imply the same understanding?
xephyr1000 4 months ago
@xephyr1000 Thanks for nudging me to think about this further. Our current economy is focused mostly on *stuff* - and how much it costs (or whether it’s “free”). Advanced societies will be focused first and foremost on people -- how can we enable everyone to be healthy, happy, productive, contributing members of society?
Money is only needed for allocating scarce resources. In a fully abundant society, there's simply no need for it. So yes, everything can be available (i.e. free).
bmillerbiop 4 months ago
@bmillerbiop Awesome ;) I'm not sure that "money" or even a form of currency would be required to "allocate scarce resources" as I believe that by then, Science will more efficiently help us to properly allocate resources as needed, and most things will be automatic/handled via technology. The only things we will need a form of "currency" (that I can see) is for non-essential things that go beyond need or supporting society in general, and in that case, maybe a form of "earned credit" system.
xephyr1000 4 months ago
@bmillerbiop I think the future is already coming forth as we see menial tasks being more efficiently handled with better standardized results through automation. Most service oriented jobs should be automated to free up people to more important endeavors. Education would greatly elevate the potential of all humans and we would see many more Einsteins and Beethovens, etc when money is no longer a barrier to advancing their innate talents and interests, thus meeting more technical needs better.
xephyr1000 4 months ago
@bmillerbiop I know many people fear technological advances as though Sci-Fi horror films will come to fruition and humans will be reduced to mere pests, but I don't believe that. We have always embraced technological changes from eyeglasses to trains to MRIs. Decisions on the best use of scarce resources should never be left to a "popular vote" but rather to an efficient scientific approach that will best utilize the resources to benefit the Earth as a whole. IMHO
xephyr1000 4 months ago
@bmillerbiop "Note that all the things that make life worth living can't be monetized"
Agreed. That which makes life worth living is usually a mixture of cultural and individual values. I love the ideals of the UFP in that it focuses on allowing individuals to achieve Maslow's "Self-Actualization." Its also why I support the Occupy Wall Street & The Zeitgeist Movement/The Venus Project efforts.
xephyr1000 4 months ago
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Fans can imagine bizarre aliens, far-fetched technology and mysterious anomalies in the space-time continuum, but when it comes to imagining a future Earth devoid of poverty, all of a sudden, y'all motherfuckers come down with a bad case of writer's block? As the Church Lady from Saturday Night Live would say, "how convenient (for the taxphobic corporate elite, that is)!"
The hypocrisy is highly suspicious and absolutely staggering, to say the least ...
TheGreenVoter 4 months ago
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"When the New World Economy took shape in the late 22nd century and money went the way of the dinosaur, Fort Knox was turned into a museum."
--Tom Paris, from the Star Trek: Voyager episode, Dark Frontier
Gillian Taylor: Don't tell me they don't use money in the 23rd century?
Captain Kirk: Well, we doN'T.
--from the movie, Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
TheGreenVoter 4 months ago
Jake Sisko: I'm Human, I don't have any money.
Nog: It's not my fault that your species decided to abandon currency-based economics in favor of some philosophy of self-enhancement.
Jake Sisko: Hey, watch it. There's nothing wrong with our philosophy. We work to better ourselves and the rest of Humanity.
Nog: What does that mean, exactly?
Jake Sisko: It means we don't need money.
--from the episode, In the Cards (Deep Space Nine), which best depicts business practices in the Federation.
TheGreenVoter 4 months ago
In real life ...
"I’ve never been motivated by money. I wouldn’t write a script differently if someone said they would give me $20,000 more for good will or whatever.
--Gene Roddenberry
... or in fiction ...
"Money is a terrible thing. Why do people work at jobs in Star Trek? Why does someone become a baker? Because the family is going to starve to death? No. People become bakers because certain people love the smell of things baking."
--Gene Roddenberry
... Gene was THE MAN !
TheGreenVoter 4 months ago
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"A study in the American Journal of Public Health shows that in the United States nearly 45,000 DEATHS annually can be linked to a LACK of health insurance. That’s over 120 preventable DEATHS every day."
--The Capital Times (Wisconsin), 11/22/10
... THAT'S capitalism ! That's GENOCIDE !
In contrast, commies like Doctors Phlox, McCoy, Crusher and Bashir provide free universal health care !
TheGreenVoter 4 months ago
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"It will take $30 billion a year to eliminate global hunger. For the price of the Wall Street Bailout, we could make sure no one on Earth goes hungry."
--The Institute for Food and Development Policy
... and there's NO hunger on Roddenberry's future Earth ...
"How about war, disease, hunger. Pretty much wiped 'em out."
--Charles "Trip" Tucker, Star Trek: Enterprise
... so SOMEbody in the future told Wall Street to go fuck itself!
TheGreenVoter 4 months ago
Protein resequencers, unlimited energy and bio-matter whatever will NOT, repeat, NOT change the FACT that SOCIOLOGY -- NOT technology -- is what makes Star Trek Star Trek ...
"[Proof of aliens] unites Humanity in a way no one ever thought possible when they realize they're not alone in the universe. Poverty, disease, war -- they'll all be gone within the next fifty years."
--Star Trek: First Contact
... it's the decision to SHARE; to put people ABOVE profits !
TheGreenVoter 4 months ago 3
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"Denmark and Finland have child-poverty levels of less than 3 percent, and are closely followed by Norway and Sweden, thanks to higher levels of social spending. In the U.S., 17 percent of children live in poverty."
--The Seattle Times, 1/4/06
... "higher levels of social spending," which can ONLY come from TAXING the RICH, which is the first step (of many) insofar as achieving Roddenberry's dream of abolishing poverty ...
TheGreenVoter 4 months ago
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"In terms of socialism, a lot to be learned from Scandinavia. In countries like Finland, Norway, Denmark, poverty has almost been eliminated. All people have healthcare as a right of citizenship. College education is available to all people, regardless of income, virtually free. They have a lot of political participation, high voter turnouts. There is a lot to be learned from countries that have created more egalitarian societies than has the United States."
--U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders
TheGreenVoter 4 months ago
"Twenty years ago when people here thought about socialism they were thinking about the Soviet Union. Now they think about Scandinavia. In Vermont people understand I'm talking about democratic socialism."
--U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders
"I don't mean the 'socialism' of Soviet Russia or any other oppressive regime claiming to be socialist. Rather, a genuine socialism which not only distributes the wealth but maintains liberty."
--Prof. Howard Zinn (1922 - 2010)
THAT'S Star Trek !
TheGreenVoter 4 months ago
So, "lanebatts26," because YOU can't wrap YOUR head around it, the poor of the world are to be denied HOPE and CONdemned to even MORE suffering? YOU'RE the one who's beyond retarded.
TheGreenVoter 4 months ago
I think this whole idea of star trek is so beyond retarded...i cant even wrap my head around it.... Ok...so how exactly does this work? how do you pay for hollowsweet time, drinks, labor for ships, food for people, materials to build ships, I mean seriously. The whole concept of money is based of someones time is valuable. Thats why we get paid to do a job. Seriously hate this part of star trek. (even if we could make stuff appear out of thin air)
lanebatts26 4 months ago
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Fans can imagine bizarre aliens, far-fetched technology and mysterious anomalies in the space-time continuum, but when it comes to imagining a future Earth devoid of poverty, all of a sudden, y'all motherfuckers come down with a bad case of writer's block? As the Church Lady from Saturday Night Live would say, "how convenient (for the taxphobic corporate elite, that is)!"
The hypocrisy is highly suspicious and absolutely staggering, to say the least ...
TheGreenVoter 4 months ago
Well we have 300 more years to go so lets start the engines. Its got to start small though cause you see everything thats big today was small back in the day. The human potential is really the final frontier.
LordHannigan 4 months ago
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"When the New World Economy took shape in the late 22nd century and money went the way of the dinosaur, Fort Knox was turned into a museum."
--Tom Paris, from the Star Trek: Voyager episode, Dark Frontier
Gillian Taylor: Don't tell me they don't use money in the 23rd century?
Captain Kirk: Well, we doN'T.
--from the movie, Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
TheGreenVoter 4 months ago
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"It will take $30 billion a year to eliminate global hunger. For the price of the Wall Street Bailout, we could make sure no one on Earth goes hungry."
--The Institute for Food and Development Policy
... and there's NO hunger on Roddenberry's future Earth ...
"How about war, disease, hunger. Pretty much wiped 'em out."
--Charles "Trip" Tucker, Star Trek: Enterprise
... so SOMEbody in the future told Wall Street to go fuck itself!
TheGreenVoter 4 months ago
Fans can imagine bizarre aliens, far-fetched technology and mysterious anomalies in the space-time continuum, but when it comes to imagining a future Earth devoid of poverty, all of a sudden, y'all motherfuckers come down with a bad case of writer's block? As the Church Lady from Saturday Night Live would say, "how convenient (for the taxphobic corporate elite, that is)!"
The hypocrisy is highly suspicious and absolutely staggering, to say the least ...
TheGreenVoter 4 months ago
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"Twenty years ago when people here thought about socialism they were thinking about the Soviet Union. Now they think about Scandinavia. In Vermont people understand I'm talking about democratic socialism."
--U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders
"I don't mean the 'socialism' of Soviet Russia or any other oppressive regime claiming to be socialist. Rather, a genuine socialism which not only distributes the wealth but maintains liberty."
--Prof. Howard Zinn (1922 - 2010)
THAT'S Star Trek!
TheGreenVoter 4 months ago
NO one said anything about money being made obsolete OVERNIGHT, goddamn it! The first stage among MANY is to ...
"Denmark and Finland have child-poverty levels of less than 3 percent, and are closely followed by Norway and Sweden, thanks to higher levels of social spending. In the U.S., 17 percent of children live in poverty."
--The Seattle Times, 1/4/06
... TAX the RICH, or as The Seattle Times put it, "higher levels of social spending" ...
TheGreenVoter 4 months ago
"[Proof of aliens] unites Humanity in a way no one ever thought possible when they realize they're not alone in the universe. Poverty, disease, war, they'll all be gone within the next 50 years."
--from the movie, Star Trek: First Contact
... First Contact was in 2063 ... Fifty years from then is 2113 -- and I know goddamn well Earth was NOT depicted in Star Trek as having replicators at that point! They're commies, period.
SOCIAL progress! NOT techno!
TheGreenVoter 4 months ago
@TheGreenVoter Actually, I think both social AND technological progress are equally important.
Keitaro2011 3 months ago
@Keitaro2011 There's no practical support for Capitalism as it depletes resources and UNDER UTILIZES those resources through the generation of profit as profit cannot exist without unequal trade and the unequal trade is where resources are under utilized - Also the unnecessary waste of resources caused by advertising and money spent on the competition between companies further waste resources. Capitalism is dependent on science, but science is not dependent on Capitalism. Truth has no price tag.
johnniefive80 3 months ago
@johnniefive80 I agree completely.
Keitaro2011 3 months ago
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TheGreenVoter 4 months ago
Well sure, we all need something meaningful and contributory to do (i.e. "work"), but why does it always have to be anal-retentively measured in dollars and tit-for-tat exchange? In a truly abundant society (which we could have today were it not for artificially created scarcity) people could offer their talents toward sustaining a healthy, vibrant society - which would then sustain them in return.
bmillerbiop 4 months ago 2
What you're forgetting about is the fact that we can't just scrap money, as though it were that easy. Until AI reaches the point where machines can provide our every need, we will need to work in order to ensure our own survival. And without a medium of exchange, we would have to resort to old fashioned bartering and trading of goods/services, which is like money but far less efficient.
TheMathGuy 4 months ago
When money becomes obsolete it will be because we no longer have any use for it. Trying to force money to be obsolete before its time is a lot like trying to stop people from drinking by making it illegal--all you succeed in doing is moving the activity underground. If you really want to see the end of money, push to advance technology and artificial intelligence to a point where human survival costs essentially nothing (like tap water).
TheMathGuy 4 months ago 2
@TheMathGuy Technology COULD advance to that point, but such advancements are held back by humans competing for jobs and needing jobs to survive.
Keitaro2011 3 months ago
Fans can imagine bizarre aliens, far-fetched technology and mysterious anomalies in the space-time continuum, but when it comes to imagining a future Earth devoid of poverty, all of a sudden, y'all motherfuckers come down with a bad case of writer's block? As the Church Lady from Saturday Night Live would say, "how convenient (for the taxphobic corporate elite, that is)!"
The hypocrisy is highly suspicious and absolutely staggering, to say the least ...
TheGreenVoter 5 months ago
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TheGreenVoter 5 months ago
"Twenty years ago when people here thought about socialism they were thinking about the Soviet Union. Now they think about Scandinavia. In Vermont people understand I'm talking about democratic socialism."
--U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders
"I don't mean the 'socialism' of Soviet Russia or any other oppressive regime claiming to be socialist. Rather, a genuine socialism which not only distributes the wealth but maintains liberty."
--Prof. Howard Zinn (1922 - 2010)
THAT'S Star Trek!
TheGreenVoter 5 months ago
Individual freedom means free speech, freedom of religion, gay marriage and the use of SOME ... CERTAIN drugs ...
Individual freedom does NOT, repeat, NOT mean wallowing in a MTV Cribs mansion while millions are homeless. Individual freedom does NOT, repeat, NOT mean making billions of dollars when you can easily live with millions.
TheGreenVoter 5 months ago
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"It will take $30 billion a year to eliminate global hunger. For the price of the Wall Street Bailout, we could make sure no one on Earth goes hungry."
--The Institute for Food and Development Policy
... and there's NO hunger on Roddenberry's future Earth ...
"How about war, disease, hunger. Pretty much wiped 'em out."
--Charles "Trip" Tucker, Star Trek: Enterprise
... so SOMEbody in the future told Wall Street to go fuck itself!
TheGreenVoter 5 months ago
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"Twenty years ago when people here thought about socialism they were thinking about the Soviet Union. Now they think about Scandinavia. In Vermont people understand I'm talking about democratic socialism."
--U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders
"I don't mean the 'socialism' of Soviet Russia or any other oppressive regime claiming to be socialist. Rather, a genuine socialism which not only distributes the wealth but maintains liberty."
--Prof. Howard Zinn (1922 - 2010)
THAT'S Star Trek!
TheGreenVoter 5 months ago
"In terms of socialism, a lot to be learned from Scandinavia. In countries like Finland, Norway, Denmark, poverty has almost been eliminated. All people have healthcare as a right of citizenship. College education is available to all people, regardless of income, virtually free. They have a lot of political participation, high voter turnouts. There is a lot to be learned from countries that have created more egalitarian societies than has the United States."
--U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders
TheGreenVoter 5 months ago 7
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"There will come a day when money is non existent but to try and do it at this point in history would collapse our civilization"
It's called STAGES, son. Relax. Here's Stage One ...
"Denmark and Finland have child-poverty levels of less than 3 percent, and are closely followed by Norway and Sweden, thanks to higher levels of social spending. In the U.S., 17 percent of children live in poverty."
--The Seattle Times, 1/4/06
... "higher levels of social spending" i.e. TAX the RICH ...
TheGreenVoter 5 months ago
"Shouldn’t we also be willing to explore vigorously every possible means to prevent nuclear war? Shouldn’t we consider in every nation major changes in the traditional ways of doing things? A fundamental restructuring of ECONOMIC, political, social and religious institutions?"
--Carl Sagan, Cosmos Episode 13, 1980
The answer to Sagan's question is YES.
TheGreenVoter 5 months ago
Oh, and doN'T quote Carl Sagan again -- the man was all about making the world a better place; he was NOT about hiding ...
"The world impoverishes itself by spending $1 trillion a year on preparations for war. And employing perhaps half the scientists and high technologists on the planet in military endeavors. How would we explain all this to a dispassionate extraterrestrial observer? What account would we give of our stewardship of the planet Earth?"
--. Carl Sagan, Cosmos Episode 13, 1980
TheGreenVoter 5 months ago
jaeLAX23, seriously? Shut the fuck up ...
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."
--V for Vendetta
... except it's clear you're VERY afraid of the gov't, or more to the point, you're afraid of accepting your responsibility as a citizen to DEMAND that the gov't do right by its people. DEMAND that it TAX the RICH withOUT resorting to Stalinism. Sounds hard? Sure it is, but that's called being an ADULT.
TheGreenVoter 5 months ago
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"It will take $30 billion a year to eliminate global hunger. For the price of the Wall Street Bailout, we could make sure no one on Earth goes hungry."
--The Institute for Food and Development Policy
... and there's NO hunger on Roddenberry's future Earth ...
"How about war, disease, hunger. Pretty much wiped 'em out."
--Charles "Trip" Tucker, Star Trek: Enterprise
... so SOMEbody in the future told Wall Street to go fuck itself!
TheGreenVoter 5 months ago
"Twenty years ago when people here thought about socialism they were thinking about the Soviet Union. Now they think about Scandinavia. In Vermont people understand I'm talking about democratic socialism."
--U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders
"I don't mean the 'socialism' of Soviet Russia or any other oppressive regime claiming to be socialist. Rather, a genuine socialism which not only distributes the wealth but maintains liberty."
--Prof. Howard Zinn (1922 - 2010)
THAT'S Star Trek!
TheGreenVoter 5 months ago
"In terms of socialism, a lot to be learned from Scandinavia. In countries like Finland, Norway, Denmark, poverty has almost been eliminated. All people have healthcare as a right of citizenship. College education is available to all people, regardless of income, virtually free. They have a lot of political participation, high voter turnouts. There is a lot to be learned from countries that have created more egalitarian societies than has the United States."
--U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders
TheGreenVoter 5 months ago
"There will come a day when money is non existent but to try and do it at this point in history would collapse our civilization"
It's called STAGES, son. Relax. Here's Stage One ...
"Denmark and Finland have child-poverty levels of less than 3 percent, and are closely followed by Norway and Sweden, thanks to higher levels of social spending. In the U.S., 17 percent of children live in poverty."
--The Seattle Times, 1/4/06
... "higher levels of social spending" i.e. TAX the RICH ...
TheGreenVoter 5 months ago
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TheGreenVoter 5 months ago
Sorry to be blunt but this guy is a total hippie. Societies problems are complex and won't be solved so easily. Do your homework people and study some economics instead of watching the game! Read Keynes & Hayek/Friedman/MIses, learn about the federal reserve, perpetual debt & wars, fractional reserve banking & inflation. There will come a day when money is non existent but do try and do it at this point in history would collapse our civilization, and we may not have another shot at it.
jaeLAX23 5 months ago
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"Money is a terrible thing. Why do people work at jobs in Star Trek? Why does someone become a baker? Because the family is going to starve to death? No. People become bakers because certain people love the smell of things baking."
--Gene Roddenberry, The Last Conversation
TheGreenVoter 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Fans can imagine bizarre aliens, far-fetched technology and mysterious anomalies in the space-time continuum, but when it comes to imagining a future Earth devoid of poverty, all of a sudden, y'all motherfuckers come down with a bad case of writer's block? As the Church Lady from Saturday Night Live would say, "how convenient (for the taxphobic corporate elite, that is)!"
The hypocrisy is highly suspicious and absolutely staggering, to say the least ...
TheGreenVoter 5 months ago
"I’ve never been motivated by money. I wouldn’t write a script differently if someone said they would give me $20,000 more for good will or whatever."
--Gene Roddenberry, from his 1991 interview with The Humanist
"The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of Humanity."
--from the movie, Star Trek: First Contact
EVOLVE ...
TheGreenVoter 5 months ago
"In terms of socialism, there is a lot to be learned from Scandinavia ... poverty has almost been eliminated. All people have healthcare as a right of citizenship. College education is available to all people, regardless of income, virtually free ... They have a lot of political participation, high voter turnouts. There is a lot to be learned from countries that have created more egalitarian societies than has the United States."
--U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders
TheGreenVoter 5 months ago
"Twenty years ago when people here thought about socialism they were thinking about the Soviet Union. Now they think about Scandinavia. In Vermont people understand I'm talking about democratic socialism."
--U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders
The ONLY "freedom" capitalists care about is wallowing in a MTV Cribs mansion while millions are homeless! They CONstantly invoke Stalin and ignore Scandinavia because of their GREED; they're afraid Scandinavia, and Star Trek, will inspire the poor!
TheGreenVoter 5 months ago
@TheGreenVoter "The ONLY "freedom" capitalists care about is wallowing in a MTV Cribs mansion while millions are homeless! They CONstantly invoke Stalin and ignore Scandinavia because of their GREED; they're afraid Scandinavia, and Star Trek, will inspire the poor!"- I disagree, what we have in the US is a society that values the WRONG things. Also, consider what's happening around the world before you give away power and consider whom the leaders are & what their agendas are. Be SMART!
jaeLAX23 5 months ago
@TheGreenVoter “One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. The bamboozle has captured us. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.” - Carl Sagan
jaeLAX23 5 months ago
@TheGreenVoter “If we can't think for ourselves, if we're unwilling to question authority, then we're just putty in the hands of those in power. But if the citizens are educated and form their own opinions, then those in power work for us. In every country, we should be teaching our children the scientific method and the reasons for a Bill of Rights. With it comes a certain decency, humility and community spirit.
jaeLAX23 5 months ago
@TheGreenVoter continued...... In the demon-haunted world that we inhabit by virtue of being human, this may be all that stands between us and the enveloping darkness.” -Carl Sagan
jaeLAX23 5 months ago
So fucking sick of this irrational, HYPOCRITCAL fear of BIG GOVERNMENT ...
"Wealthfare -- the money government gives away to corporations and wealthy individuals -- costs us more than $815 billion a year. That's more than four times what we spend on welfare for the poor."
--Mark Zepezauer, from his book, Take the Rich off Welfare
... now what do these Ayn Rand humping, Milton Friedman worshipping, libertarian lapdogs for the corporate elite got to say about that? Not a goddamn thang ...
TheGreenVoter 5 months ago
"I’ve never been motivated by money. I wouldn’t write a script differently if someone said they would give me $20,000 more for good will or whatever."
--Gene Roddenberry, from his 1991 interview with The Humanist
"The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of Humanity."
--from the movie, Star Trek: First Contact
TheGreenVoter 5 months ago
"In terms of socialism, there is a lot to be learned from Scandinavia ... poverty has almost been eliminated. All people have healthcare as a right of citizenship. College education is available to all people, regardless of income, virtually free ... They have a lot of political participation, high voter turnouts. There is a lot to be learned from countries that have created more egalitarian societies than has the United States."
--U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders
TheGreenVoter 5 months ago
"Twenty years ago when people here thought about socialism they were thinking about the Soviet Union. Now they think about Scandinavia. In Vermont people understand I'm talking about democratic socialism."
--U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders
The ONLY "liberty" libertarians care about is wallowing in a MTV Cribs mansion while millions are homeless! They CONstantly invoke Stalin and ignore Scandinavia because of their GREED; they're afraid Scandinavia, and Star Trek, will inspire the poor!
TheGreenVoter 5 months ago
I'm Russian, so... dear Americans, can you explain one simplest thing? You so hate communism... yet, as soon as you trying to imagine the better society of future - you describe the typical communist society again and again. Not only in this Star Trek series, but also in some other book, incl. even the book of some christian author (forgot his name), who tried to describe the social structure of Heaven )))
AtollRu 5 months ago
@AtollRu Well, you're partly right. But both capitalism and communism suffer from the same problem - people exist primarily to serve the interests of abstract institutions. In communism, people are effectively enslaved to the State whereas under capitalism, it's the corporations and banks. I long for the day when all institutions exist primarily to serve the people rather than the reverse!
bmillerbiop 5 months ago 2
@bmillerbiop OK, it's clear. But the term "communism" (according to Marx) mean classless & STATEless society of distant future. Even the Marx in his 19 century wasn't so naive to think this can be achieved just as result of some "proletarian revolution". USSR or DPRK weren't communist societies (nor even close), no matter how they called themselves. Real communism should be result of long technologic & social evolution. Money, social classes & exploitation will not be banned by...
AtollRu 5 months ago
(2)...some powerfull Communist State. More likely, they will become the useless anachronism & will die by "natural death" as result of normal historical development. Maybe, exactly in 24 century :)
AtollRu 5 months ago
agreed, because in that type of society you are guaranteed a job and the job that you want
nobodysperfect06 5 months ago
@nobodysperfect06 Well, I like to think of it more as "work" than "job". Job is some rigamarole you have to go through mainly to get money. In a moneyless society, where needs are met by technology and intelligent social design, people are free to do meaningful work that is a genuine contribution to the world.
bmillerbiop 5 months ago 3
yeah basically i'm just frustrated because of the horrible economy that has been like this for the past 2 or 3 years now, it gets irritating, frustrating, applying at so many places and you don't get hired, not only that, not even an interview, what pisses me off more is that employers want you to have experience, but how do you gain experience if nobody will give you a chance? But since we still live in a Money-based society, I need to get paid in order to make a living
nobodysperfect06 5 months ago
it's more than just not fair, it's not right in my opinion on how employers are extremely reluctant to hire people that are inexperienced, because in life there is always a first time for everything, how does anyone expect to learn if nobody will give you a chance? and i'm talking about entry-level jobs, retail, customer-service jobs, grocery stores, fast-food places, movie theaters, etc.
nobodysperfect06 5 months ago
Fans can imagine bizarre aliens, far-fetched technology and mysterious anomalies in the space-time continuum, but when it comes to imagining a future Earth devoid of poverty, all of a sudden, y'all motherfuckers come down with a bad case of writer's block? As the Church Lady from Saturday Night Live would say, "how convenient (for the taxphobic corporate elite, that is)!"
The hypocrisy is highly suspicious and absolutely staggering, to say the least ...
TheGreenVoter 5 months ago
THIS is REAL communism ...
"In terms of socialism, there is a lot to be learned from Scandinavia. In countries like Finland, Norway, Denmark, poverty has almost been eliminated. All people have healthcare as a right of citizenship. College education is available to all people, regardless of income, virtually free."
--U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders
... what YOU have in mind is some Stalinistic stereotype straight out of Patrick Swayze's Red Dawn -- as is the case with all too many ...
TheGreenVoter 5 months ago
Nonterastor, it's clear you doN'T know what you're talking about: STALINISTS use " supressive force." REAL commies, like the ones in Scandinavia, doN'T ...
"Twenty years ago when people here thought about socialism they were thinking about the Soviet Union. Now they think about Scandinavia. In Vermont people understand I'm talking about democratic socialism."
--U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders
... if you want blacks to make the distinction between most whites and the KKK, then come correct!
TheGreenVoter 5 months ago
Commerce is the greatest tool invented by man. It ensures competition, which is invariably good. If we get rid of money, it will just be replaced by some other form of currency (gold pressed latinum anyone?). Commerce drives the value chain and prioritizes societies projects. People gain meaningful work and are encouraged to succeed (lest someone else do it first). Get rid of money? Will never happen and is a bad idea.
CommitToFocus 5 months ago
@CommitToFocus Competition was a appropriate to a more primitive stage of social development, basically, when the "laws of the jungle" held sway. For the future, we will get much farther with collaboration. Competition identifies the one entity who is "best". Collaboration leverages what is best in everyone, so that the whole becomes more than the sum of the parts. I use the analogy of the human body: we are healthy when our organs cooperate, not were they to compete.
bmillerbiop 5 months ago
@bmillerbiop You are so goddamn right, and I am happy that you tell off all these wannabe alpha males that open their big yaps because they got a bachelors degree in that, or a job that pays this much money. I am not saying this as a run of the mill liberal junkie either. Truth of the matter is that most people who wind up with big money usually do so through luck, and not skill or hard work, anyone could have come up with goddamn scrabbles for iPhones!
megaDudeMegaDude 5 months ago
"SCPF," Zeitgeist is colossally overrated. They combine the flakiness of a hippie with the callousness of a yuppie. They're under the delusion that automation; that robot laborers are supposedly the answer. THIS is the answer ...
"The ultimate solution is not with the people on top. The ultimate solution is for people in the streets to create an atmosphere for people on top to be accountable."
--Prof. Howard Zinn (1922 - 2010)
TheGreenVoter 6 months ago
@TheGreenVoter Well, the Zeitgeist films do contain a lot of good ideas and truth, but I agree that their solution: "better technology" is probably not going to make the difference. The problem is really more one of the human spirit. So long as we continue to see each other as competitors, rivals, and enemies, things won't change. But when we realize that "everyone does better when everyone does better", that's when a world of peace, opportunity, and abundance for all will be possible.
bmillerbiop 5 months ago
@TheGreenVoter Well, the Zeitgeist films do contain a lot of good ideas and truth, but I agree that their solution: "better technology" is probably not going to make the difference. The problem is really more one of the human spirit. So long as we continue to see each other as competitors, rivals, and enemies, things won't change. But when we realize that "everyone does better when everyone does better", that's when a world of peace, opportunity, and abundance for all will be possible.
bmillerbiop 5 months ago
The Zeitgeist Movement (TZM) has been showing that we have the ability to generate energy, food, housing, health and education for everyone in the world, while, at the same time, we are able to ELIMINATE OUR ECONOMICAL, SOCIAL & ECOLOGICAL CRISIS along with corruption, poverty, abuse of power, unemployment, social stratification, and other factors that hinder the life and sustainability of the planet and its inhabitants.To know more about it, watch: "Zeitgeist Addendum" - It is on youtube
:)
FS
FactualSolutions 6 months ago
what do u do with people that want to control others or be competitive
890buba 6 months ago in playlist Utopia
@890buba People mostly need to control others when they're fearful/insecure themselves. In a society where everyone is secure, that problem should diminish. As to competition, let them play games! -- Or better yet, let them outdo each other in creating something new and cool, that benefits self and society.
bmillerbiop 6 months ago
@890buba People mainly need to compete and control when they are afraid of others and insecure about their ability to survive. In a benign, enlightened, "Star-Trekkian" society, those fears would have little basis.
bmillerbiop 5 months ago
@890buba A person or a small group of people do not have control. It is the majority that for some reason or another have given up their power to that small group. If say Hilter ordered me to kill you and I didn't. Then ordered you to kill me and you didn't. Well Hilter is looking pretty silly now sense we have refused to let him take or power away from us. So the really a government is only as powerful as the majority allow it.
LordHannigan 4 months ago