@oO0xXJSXx0Oo Porque alguien que golpea en el suelo es maricon? Segun vos si alguien se entreno a lo largo de su vida en un arte marcial de grapling no tiene permitido utilizar lo que aprendio porque es de maricon?
@SanguineBullet667 This is Mixed Martial Arts. MMA proved the effectiveness of grappling. 90% of fights end up on the ground between untrained fighters whether they believe standup is "fighting like a man" or not.
I like standup striking better than grappling but I do respect the effectiveness of grappling Martial Arts. Botha should have done some more training on takedown defense to force Akiyama to stand with him.
@SanguineBullet667 So what do you suppose that says about you and your fighting abilities if you let someone with "gay bar fighting abilities" as you say, beat you? what does that say about you?
@SanguineBullet667 akiyama used botha's weakness, why would you stand and trade punches with a pro heavyweight boxer who out weighs you by 40+ pounds. akiyama used his judo and it's botha's fault he doesn't know how to defend off of his back. he knew what he was getting into, its a mixed martial arts match. Im a botha fan but he should have stuck with boxing and k1, or trained extesivley off his back or atleast to be able to get back to his feet where he could used his strength which is boxing.
Tìpico combate entre un boxeador y un luchador (o judoka, o jujitsuka). El boxeador se cuadra para tirar sus combinaciones de golpes y, antes de que pueda siquiera terminar de prepararse, ya está de espalda en el suelo. De ahí en adelante, queda indefenso.
I am very proud of Akiyama the Korean Tiger. His blood is 100% pure Korean blood, although he is the 3rd generation Korean living in Japan. He is not that big, but is surely packed with muscles and skills and most importantly intelligence. The guy is one of the best Korean fighters I have seen in MMA.
@UnitedKorean proud of akiyama? OMG who discriminates him? yes, akiyama is ethnically korean, but now he's japanese and why? cuz he's discriminated in korea. there are a lot of korean who have naturalized in japan and the reason is that they are discriminated in korea. for example, tadanari lee, japanese national football player explained why he played for japan, he was called "pan-choppari" in korea and decided to have naturalized in japan...you have no right to be "proud" of "pan-choppari"
that is true to an extent but most of the time guys train for single and double takedowns nowadays only, because of the rareity when going against a judoka. i my self am a judo practitioner and have guys that strictly train in MMA and have been able to toss them around with ease due to inexperiance when it comes to throws within the clinch. in the end i really just want him to focus on cardio because that is the only thing holding hime back.
its not that people are becomeing better takedown defenders, its the fact that akiyama wants to be a knockout artist. i honestly dont mind the fact that he wants to stand and bang but for gods sake stick to your strongest attributes.
@Thydeepestfear Akiyama does like standup but it is also true that fighters are getting better at defending takedowns. Their overall ground games are also getting better to the point where national and world champion grapplers can get submitted by guys who are not even Black Belts. Your natural athleticism and dedication to training matter in a fight at the elite level more than your credentials do.
@MysticNinjaJay Yeah IMO guys are getting better at defending TD and they know the basic grappling to a point where they can just lay and wait for the ref to stand them up. Plus the sport is progressing we don't see anymore bar fighters like Tank Abbott. The future of the sport IMO is technical bangers like Diaz and Overeem.
@MysticNinjaJay - Good point about takedown defences nowadays. Bisping has decent down defence but Akiyama didn't even close the distance enough to attempt a throw.
Akiyama was doing well against Leben but a major problem was gassing out, ironically becoming triangled, a classic Judo technique which most good Judokas escape easily when not gassed.
@henh32 idk what you are talkin about. as a judoka myself you dont usually escape, you stay the fuck out. when you have that gi on it makes it damn near impossible to pull out of a triangle so you have to be hella careful
@MysticNinjaJay Yes and No. Leben was not so strong ground (altho he did win with a nasty armbar) so we DID see judo. I just think that loss against Leben made him rethink a lot of his takedowns :P my opinion
@ThomasMin1988 - Exactly!! I believe that Japanese MMA crowds understand and appreciate the skills involved in throwing/tripping/choking/locking more. I also think Akiyama could actually have a better chance of winning in UFC if he stuck to what he did best.. Judo.
@ThomasMin1988 The audience doesn't pay to watch men hold eachother best they can and roll over the floor for 10 minutes, so that's the right thing to do too. American MMA is even more boring because of all the BJJ adepts and wrestlers ruining it.
If you want to see a proper fight, try Dutch freefight, preferably those not fought under unified MMA rules. Mostly much more standup oriented fighters, and much more skilled at that too.
@Blahb27 well yeah the main spectators in the usa, usually the drunk american, tapout wearing fan doesn't know shit about grappling. They just want to see blood and brutal ko's.
In japan it's somewhat different though, most of the viewers are educated in grappling and doesn't start booing when there's a longer period of groundfighting. You also hear applause in japan when a fighter gets from half mount to side control.
Well if I want to see skilled standup then I watch K-1 not mma
@ThomasMin1988 Ur n MMA AND fight snob, I have a brother like you..You thnk you know fighting, k1 can focus on stand up and not worry about ground, IM BRANDON BURKE, check my fights on you tube out,
@BrandonBurke100 Coming from a guy with a record full of losses, no wins and 1 draw including the quickest KO loss in boxing history, that tone sounds rather ironic.
I disagree with him as well as I think MMA should be primarily about fighting and not wrestling regardless of what he'll argue, but what's the problem with keeping stuff civilized?
@ThomasMin1988 I'd have to agree with you with the exception of the drunk American part. Americans are knowledgable in grappling(wrestling) and as of late, bjj.
I would think these mma faggots would have more respect for a Boxer and try to stand with them. But akiyama like Couture are cowards. The man has no experience in MMA and you want to pound him out. Thats great just perfect just don't dare to walk in the boxing ring Akiyama ;)
@mercilessMarksmen why should they "respect" boxers and give them special treatment. boxers step into the mma ring knowing they're facing guys who trained their whole lives for mma fighting. cowards my ass
@boyofin Cowards your ass? Yeah your ass is a coward lol and yeah the reason i say they're cowards is because now that the boxer has stepping in their ring why dont the mma fighters fight them boxing rules? Let's see how that turns out ya know?
@mercilessMarksmen. LOL. MMA is real fighting and not Boxing! A MMA figher will smash and beat up and boxer on the street! a real fight is not only standing up!
On the street most of the street fighst ends on the ground.
@DJBouncey ok faggot now that boxers have stepping into k-1 and mma I would like the mma fighters and k-1 to fight in boxing rules. Fair enough? yes.. nod your head for me bitch.
@mercilessMarksmen Some MMA fighters have Boxing records. It's not easy for an MMA fighter to get a fight with an elite Boxer. The athletic commission actually stopped Tim Sylvia from fighting Ray Mercer in a Boxing match. I'd love to see an MMA fighter fight a world class Boxer in a Boxing ring but setting something like that up isn't easy.
@MysticNinjaJay lol you know your comment really relaxed me and now im seeing things differently..You are right these mma fighters don't have enough seniority to host a main event with a Pro boxer.
@mercilessMarksmen Yeah this would be hard to set up. However on the last episode of Inside MMA KJ Noons said his people were in talks with the management of Mayweather and Pacquiao for him to have a Boxing match with them. Pacquiao is interested in an MMA fight so Noons suggested they do one fight in MMA and one fight in Boxing. I would be interested in seeing that.
actually NO combat sport is real fighting because street fighting also involves getting their eye gouged and getting their faces stomped in and biting and getting hit in the balls
no combat sport can prepare for that. anyway the ground game won't help if there are multiple people. so its a stupid argument
@TommyGun7111 No combat sport is a "real" fight because it's a competition, that's true. I think it can be argued however that the more skills you have the more prepared you are for a real fight. In MMA you learn striking and grappling which is useful even against multiple opponents. Suppose one opponent tries to take you down while the others beat on you. MMA can prepare you for defending against takedowns and scrambling to your feet while Boxing doesn't.
MMA does not include eye gouging and punches and knees to the balls. and it doesn't include biting and getting your face stomped it. you can't even argue that. if you did that in mma you would get disqualified.
@TommyGun7111 Ofcourse. That's why I said it's not a real fight. It's a sport with rules. However what I'm saying is that MMA prepares you alot better for a street fight than Boxing does.
@mercilessMarksmen dunno what your problem is man. i'm not degrading boxing or anything like that, i just feel it's a stupid thing to call mma fighters cowards for destroying boxers who willingly put themselves in that mma ring knowing what's in store for them.
But those elite boxers might have made much more dangerous MMA fighters than Bummerson because of how amazing their boxing skills are. But only after they develop alot more and better skills in other aspects of MMA. But even the most elite boxer might go down as easily as Bum-merson or Tap Out Toney. Because the problem is not how good they are at boxing, but how lacking they are in many other skills.
The problem though is that '93 Bowe, Holyfield, Virgil Hill, or Lennox might have been vastly superior to Art "Tomato Can" Jimmerson as boxers, but that doesnt mean their take down defense or grappling skills were vastly superior to Bum-mersons.
I am perfectly willing to say that young Bowe might have been fairly easily taken down and submitted by Gracie or Shamrock. They might not have done any better.
Stop whining that Botha wasn't "elite" at boxing. Akiyama is hardly elite at MMA. He fought hand picked fights in Japan for years before coming to America and scraping by Belcher and getting finished by Leben. At least Botha actually challenged for a title (twice). Akiyama is also a 185lber while Botha is a heavyweight.
Boxing is great, but it's not pure fighting. Botha got smacked around by a non-elite fighter half his size. Don't be silly.
Thats always been the problem in getting elite level boxers who are in their primes into MMA. The huge difference in money. Why would '93 Holyfield put aside multimililon dollar fights with Bowe to get into a cage agains Gracie and Shamrock for peanuts. It was never going to happen.
Jimmerson, medicore Can though he was, was probably as good a guy as they could have gotten back then.
Art Jimmerson was never an "IBF Champion". He was a tomato can. A bum. When you think of the great boxers of 1993, Jimmerson was nowhere near it. His only notable fights were early round TKO losses to Jirov and Orlin Norris. He was a complete nobody at the time of UFC 1.
But there was no way to get Riddick Bowe, Holyfield, Lennox, Virgil Hill, Tyson (who was in the pokey), or even young James Toney, to agree to compete in it. The money was nothing compared to what they made in boxing.
A BOXER CAN'T WALK INTO MMA AND WIN CONSISTENTLY WITHOUT ANY OTHER FORM OF TRAINING. it just can't happen stop being a stubborn idiot. Boxers make more money yes.. that doesn't diminish the skill or top mma fighters. you want to be technical? look at boxers entering kickboxing Ray Mercer is 0-2 and Botha is 4-11. you know why? because they're alien sports! none of us are taking any skills away from boxers.. MOST mma fans are in fact boxing fans. we are just tired of all you trash talking idiots.
@SeaOfFate Like I said, you're bringing up Mercer who's retired from boxing & who is in his late 40s & Botha who is also old & is a "never been." You guys choices of boxers are poor examples. Mercer retired from boxing because he can't no longer compete & I never seen Botha beat anyone important! GTFOH with these stupid examples! Like I said, name someone with the name of a PRIME Mayweather then I'll shut up! I don't know why ya'll keep bringing up old washed up boxers who haven't done anything
@SeaOfFate For the record, didn't Mercer KO Tim Silvia with the first punch of the fight? If boxers are at a disadvantage then how come an old washed up retired boxer like Mercer got a win in MMA vs a 33 years ex UFC Champ in Timmy? Explain that! BTW, you're wrong. MMA fighters are only use to dodging punches from strikers on their own level. They've never had to dodge punches from someone with the skill of an elite prime boxer. BIG difference!
@usfguy85 Tyson would have trouble with an MMA fighter with world class kickboxing skills like Alistair Overeem standing in an MMA fight. Brock Lesnar would demolish him on the ground. If anyone was dumb enough to stand and Box with him Tyson would win easily. Basically a Boxers best chance at winning an MMA fight is if the MMA fighter stands with them. They can end the fight with one punch as Mercer proved. But any decent MMA grappler would take them out as they have no TDD or ground game.
botha was a world class boxer with matches against greats like tyson in his prime and klitchko lol just another mma fighter beating a boxer...when will boxing fans learn?
there is some boxing haters over here..where do you think lots of top class fighters learn how to strike? btw..akiyama only loss was against a striker (kickboxer)
@peacenlove4every1 Then why do you often see them beating the crap out of anyone more ground-oriented if those fail to hide in the groundfight? There's a reason Akiyama was scared to death and went instantly for Botha's leg; if they'd have exchanged punches, Akiyama might as well have gone home immediatly.
True but rarely would one see such a specimen. In MMA most Boxer/Wrestlers have a wrestling base and cross-train in Boxing. So they are wrestlers with decent Boxing skills (e.g. Rampage and Rashad Evans). I think a world class Boxer with collegiate level wrestling could be a good MMA fighter but they'd need to cross-train extensively in MMA to became great. By that time they are pretty much a Mixed Martial Artist.
@monkfg There's never been an MMA champion of a major ORG who had Boxing as his base. But not alot of Pro-Boxers have transitioned to MMA because they make more money in Boxing. Some MMA fighters like Marcus Davis and KJ Noons have Boxing records. There have been very few world class Boxers in MMA and none in their prime. Botha is the closet thing to a prime world class Boxer we've had. Ray Mercer did knockout Tim Sylvia but he also got submitted by Kimbo Slice in an exhibition.
That's true. Botha was a B-level fighter at the time he fought Akiyama and two years removed from a title fight. They're just trying to discredit the win because they don't want to recognize that Boxers can be easily beat by grapplers in MMA.
@Theyellowma , Botha has not been a boxing contender for a while even at this point. He got KO'd by Tyson, Lewis, Holifield & Klitschko and a few more at this point. The problem here is not the boxing fan but the mma fan who wants more credit then they deserve. Boxers always go into these things with the least experience against some of the top fighters of the sport. Never has an MMA guy gone to boxing and challenged a dominant boxer but they do talk plenty of shit from the sidelines
Botha was a contender only a two years before this fight, but you missed the point of my post. I wasn't talking about the imaginary "war" between boxing and MMA (Fought mostly by noobs in discussion forums). I was talking about how fighters get labeled as "bums" just because they're not the very best in the world.
Also, the fact that Botha fought all those fighters you mentioned puts him ahead of the vast majority of boxers.
So according to you, a person who loses a fight automatically sucks? Botha has only lost to world champions and former world champions in boxing. You'd have to be a total noob to say he sucks based on that.
@TheGILBERTnetwork Botha was only two years removed from a title fight with Wladimir Klitschko when this fight happened. He wasn't in his prime or a world champion but he was still a contender. Boxing loyalists are the ones always talking about how a Boxer would do in MMA. They constantly disrespect the skills and athleticism of MMA fighters and overrate a Boxer's chances in the sport. Even some Boxers talk shit about MMA. You rarely hear MMA fighters do the same because most respect Boxing.
@FreshTiDef Are you implying that MMA fighters could not beat prime Boxers? To test that theory all we have to do is see a prime Boxer step into the Octagon. Floyd Mayweather chickened out when Dana White challenged him to fight Sean Sherk for the UFC Lightweight title. Prior to the Akiyama fight Botha had won 4 of his last 5 fights. His only loss was to Wladimir Klitschko. He won 3 straight when he returned to Boxing. So much for being washed up.
@FreshTiDef Who in the hell did he beat, you retard? Since he won a fight doesn't mean he isn't washed up. He may have beat some other bums...and yes, a prime boxer would smash on these useless MMA guys. MMA sucks!..LMAO!
@FreshTiDef If that's true then why hasn't a prime Boxer, for instance a contender, walked into the sport and smashed the MMA fighters? It would be easy money wouldn't? If they're such good fighters they could just sign up with the best ORGs and in a few fights beat the top ranked fighters and still compete in Boxing. Why don't they do this?
@MysticNinjaJay Because they make more money in boxing you idiot. Why would they take a MMA fight for $100,000 when they could get paid $5,000,000 for boxing? If I was making more money in boxing then I wouldn't fight MMA either.....
@FreshTiDef You haven't thought this through very well, asshole. I'm not talking about a Boxer taking up MMA full-time. I'm talking about a Boxer taking a few fights on the side against top MMA fighters. If they are so confident they can do it why don't they? Floyd Mayweather Jr. talked shit about MMA saying he could knockout a Boxer. Dana White offered him an immediate title shot at Sean Sherk and money that made sense to him. Mayweather declined and apologized. Why did he bitch out?
@FreshTiDef *saying he could knockout an MMA fighter. I'm going to be straight with you. If you think that a Boxer with little to no cross-training can waltz into MMA and not get taken down by a grappler who commits to a takedown like what happened in this video you are an idiot. Botha didn't lose because of age. He lost because he has no takedown defense or ground game. This is what happens to strikers with no TDD or ground game. It's been happening since UFC 1 (even earlier in Vale Tudo).
@FreshTiDef Tell me.. what makes this fight any different? so your saying a top tier boxer won't get taken down and submitted. Ohh you silly boxing fanboys!
@SeaOfFate I'm back...Anyhow, I can't believe you MMA guys look at that Mercer/Kimbo fight as your proof. Did you know that Mercer is a retired boxer & he retired from boxing for a reason? If you don't know, he reitred because he couldn't no longer compete in boxing...But obviously he still have a competitive itch so what does he do? He join the minor leagues (MMA) which is a place where he can still compete (His KO on Timmy)! Nuff said!
@FreshTiDef There's nothing in a Boxer's arsenal which suggests that they can successfully fend off even a mediocre grappler. They specialize in punching above the waist. They have no takedown defense or ground game. Mercer could not compete, neither could any elite pure Boxer. Jimmerson was Top 10 ranked. That's elite. A Boxing superstar would fair no better. Why don't MMA haters like Mayweather and Hopkins come into MMA and embarrass the top fighters if they are so much better?
@FreshTiDef It doesn't matter how many total losses he has in his career. What matters is what level of Boxer he was when he participated in the fight in question. When he fought Royce Gracie at UFC 1 Art Jimmerson was a Top 10 ranked Boxer and on a 15 fight winning streak. That is an elite Boxer. Note the difference between elite and well-known Superstar. He was in his prime and a more than credible representative of Boxing. He didn't fair any better than Botha.
@MysticNinjaJay and why would B-Hop or Floyd fight MMA for crumbs when they make millions in boxing? If I was them I wouldn't waste my time with MMA either. That's like trying to get Lebron James to join "And 1" basketball just to prove that NBA players are better than the "And 1" guys who does a bunch of streetball tricks....LMAO!
@FreshTiDef Just because MMA fighters make less money doesn't mean they are inferior athletes or fighters. If Boxers think they are superior fighters they should prove it. 1 or 2 fights on the side is all it would take to prove this. Again Dana White who is very wealthy offered Mayweather a title shot and money that would make sense to him. Money couldn't be the issue and there is no excuse. He apologized for his trash talk and declined like a coward.
@FreshTiDef How do you know what Dana White offered? You weren't there during any negotiations....Besides, I don't believe that for one second. First of all, Dana is a business man & it'll be bad business to offer Mayweather millions to fight in MMA. Every fighter in the MMA before Maywether would feel disrepected. They would feel like why can't Dana pay them that type of money & then turn around & pay Floyd who doesn't respect the sport. I really doubt that Dana would open that can of worms!
@FreshTiDef Dana White stated this publicly. You can look it up. Dana already has a bad reputation for under paying fighters. He offered Fedor an immediate title shot and something like a 6 fight $30 Million contract, more money than any MMA fighter has ever been paid. He's known for offering lucrative contracts to high profile fighters. Mayweather is a superstar. The UFC would get tons of publicity if he fought even one fight. I believe he would do it.
@FreshTiDef Botha was still fighting title fights around this time bro.. he's just the best boxer and he often loses fights after controlling them. Holyfield, tyson and moorer. any boxer would suffer the same fate in mma with just pure boxing. they would get taken down, submitted or get pounded out. boxing is one dimensional sport. mma isn't and it's still evolving.
@FreshTiDef Tell me.. what makes this fight any different? so you're saying a top tier boxer won't get taken down and submitted. Ohh you silly boxing fanboys!
@FreshTiDef Okay, well look what happen when 48 year old Mercer KO'd 33 year old ex "UFC Champ," Timmy w/ the first punch of the fight...LMAO! If a 48 year old washed up boxer can get wins in the MMA then what do you think would happened if a prime elite boxer was in MMA? I rest my case!
@FreshTiDef Did you forget that Mercer also lost to Kimbo, a street fighter with only a little bit of MMA training who had never had a professional fight in his life? Sure, if an MMA fighter tries to BOX with a Boxer the way Tim did they will most likely lose. But if they take it to the ground quickly the Boxer will be lucky to last 1 minute. This is a fact. Also elite MMA strikers have better standup than Boxers. Anderson Silva would kill a Boxer standing in MMA.
@MysticNinjaJay LMFAO...Man you're real funny. Silva sucks as a boxer.......and it doesn't matter if a 46 year old Mercer lost to a prime Kimbo because if you're washed up then you suppose to lose..What's not suppose to happen is a 48 year old Mercer KOing a ex UFC Champ that's 33. Mercer's losses doesn't hurt boxing but his wins hurts the MMA.
@FreshTiDef First of all MMA includes more than just Boxing. We're talking about MMA here. Silva is an expert at Muay Thai. He would demolish a Boxer on the feet. Mercer's loss hurts your argument that he would be a legit threat to the MMA elite who tried to grapple with him. The same would happen to a prime Boxer. Art Jimmerson was a Top 10 ranked Boxer and in his prime. Look at the Royce Gracie did to him.
@MysticNinjaJay Art Jimmerson? Who in the fuck is that? That guy have 18 losses as a boxer and never beaten anyone important. Give me an elite name like "Manny Paquiao" & I'll shut the fuck up. Don't mention those losers who couldn't make it in the boxing world either...My argument is that an "elite prime" boxer would destroy any MMA faggot........and your Mercer argument doesn't make sense. I guarantee that a "Prime Mercer" would had destroyed Kimbo!
@SeaOfFate What is the MMA fighter going to do with the accurate punching from an elite prime boxer? It takes a lot of training to avoid punches from an elite prime boxer. Shit even elite prime boxers have a tough time avoiding punches from another elite prime boxer. So what is the MMA fighter gonna do when he have an elite prime boxer (something he's never seen) come throwing the type of set up punches that he only know to do?
@FreshTiDef Botha was still a high level boxer around this time.. he was just getting stopped by higher caliber opponent.. In fact Botha recently had a really impressive outing against evander holyfeild who A LOT of people still consider a threat despite him being an older fighter. Botha was ahead on two of the judges score cards at the time he was knocked out. so don't tell me Botha can't Box. stop being stubborn and accept facts.
@SeaOfFate Wow you're retarded. You think Botha's a great fighter because he faught competitive against a 45 or 46 year old need to retire Holyfield...LMFAO.... and dude stop kidding yourself. No one is thinking that Holyfield is irrelevant anymore. Everyone body wants him to RETIRE! Holyfield been done years ago & even boxing tried to retire him against his own will years ago. You MMA guys are idiots! Ya'll look @ old washed up fighters or never beens as elite boxers. Ya'll pathetic!...LOL
@FreshTiDef How are you defining an elite Boxer? I think a Top 10 ranked fighter in their prime certainly qualifies which is what Art Jimmerson was. It's unreasonable to say that you have to be a Superstar to be elite. There aren't too many of those left in Boxing. Botha was atleast a B-level Boxer at the time of this fight. Did you look up the stories that I mentioned about Fedor and Mayweather? If so you should acknowledge them and address their implications.
@MysticNinjaJay Art Jimmerson was not an elite boxer & that's crazy to think so! Botha most certainly wasn't a B level boxer.The A level boxers are fighters like Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson, Floyd Mayweather, Andre Berto, Roy Jones. Ray Leonard, B Hopkins, Winky Wright. B level fighters are F. Vargas, R. Mayorga, V. Forrest, Zab Judah, A. Margarito. C lever fighters are A. Gotti, J. Diaz, P. Malignaggi, F. Botha, D. Tua, F. Oquendo. Anyways, anything C level & below isn't elite! A & B are elite!
@FreshTiDef It's subjective but I would consider fighters who are Top 10 to be A-level. Fighters that are Top 20 are B level. Fighters that are between Top 20 and Top 30 would be C-level. Below Top 30 is D-level and beyond. Botha during his prime hovered around Top 20 and got a few title shots. He fits within my criteria of B-level. But I want to hear you explain how you think an A-level Boxer would beat an MMA fighter committed to grappling. What would they do that lesser Boxers didn't?
@MysticNinjaJay Dude a fighter isn't an elite fighter since he's in the Top 10 of his weight division. Have you ever heard about certain divisions being weak and there is no good fighter in that division. Example: Like the current heavyweight division. Do you think the Klitschko brothers are bragging about ruling their division? Hell no because other than them there is nothing but C level fighters in that divison! A top 10 of a division doesn't make you elite! PERIOD!
@FreshTiDef Quality of divisions is a factor but generally rank determines the level of the fighter and logically the highest ranked are the elite. I don't think elite equates with legend or superstar. As for punches and kicks from what I have observed kicks are easier to land. You can get off more punches faster but most good kickers land more kicks than punches at the end of a fight. We're talking all kicks not just the advanced ones. Leg kicks are VERY easy to land.
@MysticNinjaJay No and that's why they have P4P rankings. A Top 10 in P4P rankings is an elite but not a Top 10 of a division. Like I said, too many divisions are weak to use that criteria.. Even the top guy in some divisions isn't an elite boxer. There is a lot of top guys in a division who would get their ass roasted by the # 3, 4, or 5th guy in another division. Like Samuel Peter who's a 6th guy of his division would stump Marco Huck who's the champ of his division.. P4P is how you rank elite
@FreshTiDef ...It would be a rare feat for a Boxer to resist a takedown from a grappler on GSP's level. I've been into the sport for a couple of years and watched alot of the early fights. Strikers who have no grappling training get taken down so easily and look completely lost on the ground. You can tell when a fighter doesn't know grappling. Boxers don't cross-train. They are great athletes and great punchers but for MMA you are a sitting duck without a ground game.
@SeaOfFate Yep. Toney didn't even land one punch. He is washed up but Randy Couture is 47 years old. It's not like he was fighting a young top fighter. Toney had 9 months to prepare and that's all he could do. That was pathetic.
@SeaOfFate I seen it & that fight didn't prove shit. James Toney came in FAT, he's punch drunk (listen to him talk), isn't in the right weight divison (his best fight were @ 160 to 175), & he's 42 years old. James Toney is waaay past his prime and yes he is washed up. Toney haven't done anything important in boxing for some years now! So what if Couture beat a 5'9, 237lb (fat), 42 year old boxer who was fighting in a division too big for him? Lets see Couture do that to the younger Klitschko!
@FreshTiDef I think randy might have a hard time with either of the klitchkos but thats only because of size. bit if randy gets the take-down the fights over. I think Brock Lesnar could handle either of the klitchkos. none of this matters. James talked tons of trash and didn't back any of it up.
@FreshTiDef Thats because Tim Sylvia agreed to stand-up with ray mercer. Ray was upset that the rules were changed to mma rules. but had Tim actually gone in for a double leg or even clinched with Ray the fight would have been over. the most garbage mma fighter Kimbo Slice stopped Ray in a little over a minute!
@MysticNinjaJay Still not easy as a punch ..Anyhow, if you're an elite figher you would be at least a "star" or a "superstar." Because being elite leads to winning, winning leads to success, & success leads to fame! I don't consider someone elite if they can win 20 fights working their way up by fighting bums but then start losing when they get tested by the elite that's already established. If you're elite you're gonna beat named guys & make a name for yourself!
@FreshTiDef Not a bad argument however let's not get sidetracked from the main issue. Boxers competing in MMA. Boxing loyalists don't seem to have much respect for MMA. It's one thing not to like the sport but you guys come up with so many falsehoods about it. MMA fighters are just as good of athletes as Boxers and they are more complete fighters. I'm not saying MMA is better than Boxing but it takes alot of skill to succeed and an elite Boxer cannot come in and dominate.
son maricones los que pegan en el piso....
oO0xXJSXx0Oo 1 month ago
@oO0xXJSXx0Oo Porque alguien que golpea en el suelo es maricon? Segun vos si alguien se entreno a lo largo de su vida en un arte marcial de grapling no tiene permitido utilizar lo que aprendio porque es de maricon?
1024joaquin 4 weeks ago
akiyama was pretty flawless in that fight but botha is a boxer sooo...
vicdem20 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
he's SCARED to stand, what a cheap move. stand up and fight like a man.
SanguineBullet667 3 months ago
@SanguineBullet667 This is Mixed Martial Arts. MMA proved the effectiveness of grappling. 90% of fights end up on the ground between untrained fighters whether they believe standup is "fighting like a man" or not.
I like standup striking better than grappling but I do respect the effectiveness of grappling Martial Arts. Botha should have done some more training on takedown defense to force Akiyama to stand with him.
MysticNinjaJay 3 months ago 6
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@MysticNinjaJay i don't respect it at all. anything that mimics a gay bar fight isn't worth respect
SanguineBullet667 3 months ago
@SanguineBullet667 Then this sport isn't for you.
MysticNinjaJay 3 months ago 12
@SanguineBullet667 then go watch k1 or boxing or something
chopstik321 3 months ago
@SanguineBullet667 So what do you suppose that says about you and your fighting abilities if you let someone with "gay bar fighting abilities" as you say, beat you? what does that say about you?
kanguesso 2 months ago 3
@SanguineBullet667 akiyama used botha's weakness, why would you stand and trade punches with a pro heavyweight boxer who out weighs you by 40+ pounds. akiyama used his judo and it's botha's fault he doesn't know how to defend off of his back. he knew what he was getting into, its a mixed martial arts match. Im a botha fan but he should have stuck with boxing and k1, or trained extesivley off his back or atleast to be able to get back to his feet where he could used his strength which is boxing.
markywestside 2 months ago
あきやんまかっけー♪
moripen110 4 months ago
lol WTF was Botha doing there? This is K-1, did he think relying on just boxing will get him anywhere in that tournament? LMAO....
hep5 6 months ago
Botha fought like someone's little brother when he's getting bullied by his older brother
TheSquintyninja 6 months ago
Tìpico combate entre un boxeador y un luchador (o judoka, o jujitsuka). El boxeador se cuadra para tirar sus combinaciones de golpes y, antes de que pueda siquiera terminar de prepararse, ya está de espalda en el suelo. De ahí en adelante, queda indefenso.
josepablobolanos 6 months ago
I love watching judo guys win!!!!
TheQwaggs 6 months ago
I am very proud of Akiyama the Korean Tiger. His blood is 100% pure Korean blood, although he is the 3rd generation Korean living in Japan. He is not that big, but is surely packed with muscles and skills and most importantly intelligence. The guy is one of the best Korean fighters I have seen in MMA.
UnitedKorean 6 months ago
@UnitedKorean proud of akiyama? OMG who discriminates him? yes, akiyama is ethnically korean, but now he's japanese and why? cuz he's discriminated in korea. there are a lot of korean who have naturalized in japan and the reason is that they are discriminated in korea. for example, tadanari lee, japanese national football player explained why he played for japan, he was called "pan-choppari" in korea and decided to have naturalized in japan...you have no right to be "proud" of "pan-choppari"
toki1221 5 months ago
@MysticNinjaJay
that is true to an extent but most of the time guys train for single and double takedowns nowadays only, because of the rareity when going against a judoka. i my self am a judo practitioner and have guys that strictly train in MMA and have been able to toss them around with ease due to inexperiance when it comes to throws within the clinch. in the end i really just want him to focus on cardio because that is the only thing holding hime back.
Thydeepestfear 9 months ago
its not that people are becomeing better takedown defenders, its the fact that akiyama wants to be a knockout artist. i honestly dont mind the fact that he wants to stand and bang but for gods sake stick to your strongest attributes.
Thydeepestfear 9 months ago 6
@Thydeepestfear Akiyama does like standup but it is also true that fighters are getting better at defending takedowns. Their overall ground games are also getting better to the point where national and world champion grapplers can get submitted by guys who are not even Black Belts. Your natural athleticism and dedication to training matter in a fight at the elite level more than your credentials do.
MysticNinjaJay 9 months ago
@MysticNinjaJay Yeah IMO guys are getting better at defending TD and they know the basic grappling to a point where they can just lay and wait for the ref to stand them up. Plus the sport is progressing we don't see anymore bar fighters like Tank Abbott. The future of the sport IMO is technical bangers like Diaz and Overeem.
DestroyerAlexandros 8 months ago
fast as lightning
MrDonkeypower 11 months ago
same state as Inoki vs Ali
sijotakane 11 months ago
Akiyama↓↓
japanopinion2 1 year ago
@ThomasMin1988 theres no such thing as half mount...
dave13001 1 year ago
0:10-1:57 is the definition of BASE.
spindoctor94941 1 year ago
I saw this fight live,Botha took me with him to Japan,stunning 6days in Japan,More than 50 000 people in the dome that night!!!
MrBluebird425 1 year ago
then he lost ?? what happened that night afterwards?
MartinChanActing 1 year ago
@MartinChanActing We spend time together with the Friendly Japanese people and enjoy the rest of the trip
MrBluebird425 1 year ago
pounding that fatty
rokpain 1 year ago
The days when Akiyama used Judo in his fights are gone
henh32 1 year ago 5
@henh32 He used Judo against Leben. The reason it's becoming less so is because his opponents have better takedown defense now.
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago 7
@MysticNinjaJay - Good point about takedown defences nowadays. Bisping has decent down defence but Akiyama didn't even close the distance enough to attempt a throw.
Akiyama was doing well against Leben but a major problem was gassing out, ironically becoming triangled, a classic Judo technique which most good Judokas escape easily when not gassed.
henh32 1 year ago
@henh32 idk what you are talkin about. as a judoka myself you dont usually escape, you stay the fuck out. when you have that gi on it makes it damn near impossible to pull out of a triangle so you have to be hella careful
raddaradda101 1 year ago
@MysticNinjaJay Yes and No. Leben was not so strong ground (altho he did win with a nasty armbar) so we DID see judo. I just think that loss against Leben made him rethink a lot of his takedowns :P my opinion
ww54ww 1 year ago
@MysticNinjaJay thats not right have you seen jon jones fights ???? he foughts against top wrestler and he trow them around with judo throws
bbmafiuex 1 year ago
@bbmafiuex Jones has a background in Greco-Roman wrestling, which is an upper-body throwing style like Judo.
Theyellowma 1 year ago
@Theyellowma and ?????
bbmafiuex 1 year ago
@bbmafiuex So he's not beating wrestlers with Judo, he's beating wrestlers with wrestling.
Theyellowma 1 year ago
@Theyellowma but he is using his upper body throwinglike judo 4 his throws so he is using judo
bbmafiuex 1 year ago
@bbmafiuex Yes. He's just not a Judo guy.
Theyellowma 1 year ago
@Theyellowma he is not a judo guy but he use technique from judo 4 his throw enough said
bbmafiuex 1 year ago
@MysticNinjaJay and he's not allowed his gi. Seeing fights with the gi can be good too though.
B0l0joe 11 months ago
@henh32 yeah I know it's like he favors pleasing the american spectators with brawling rather than winning with his bread and butter: judo :(
ThomasMin1988 1 year ago
@ThomasMin1988 - Exactly!! I believe that Japanese MMA crowds understand and appreciate the skills involved in throwing/tripping/choking/locking more. I also think Akiyama could actually have a better chance of winning in UFC if he stuck to what he did best.. Judo.
henh32 1 year ago
@ThomasMin1988 The audience doesn't pay to watch men hold eachother best they can and roll over the floor for 10 minutes, so that's the right thing to do too. American MMA is even more boring because of all the BJJ adepts and wrestlers ruining it.
If you want to see a proper fight, try Dutch freefight, preferably those not fought under unified MMA rules. Mostly much more standup oriented fighters, and much more skilled at that too.
Blahb27 1 year ago
@Blahb27 well yeah the main spectators in the usa, usually the drunk american, tapout wearing fan doesn't know shit about grappling. They just want to see blood and brutal ko's.
In japan it's somewhat different though, most of the viewers are educated in grappling and doesn't start booing when there's a longer period of groundfighting. You also hear applause in japan when a fighter gets from half mount to side control.
Well if I want to see skilled standup then I watch K-1 not mma
ThomasMin1988 1 year ago 19
@ThomasMin1988 Ur n MMA AND fight snob, I have a brother like you..You thnk you know fighting, k1 can focus on stand up and not worry about ground, IM BRANDON BURKE, check my fights on you tube out,
BrandonBurke100 1 year ago
@BrandonBurke100 Coming from a guy with a record full of losses, no wins and 1 draw including the quickest KO loss in boxing history, that tone sounds rather ironic.
I disagree with him as well as I think MMA should be primarily about fighting and not wrestling regardless of what he'll argue, but what's the problem with keeping stuff civilized?
Blahb27 11 months ago
@ThomasMin1988 I'd have to agree with you with the exception of the drunk American part. Americans are knowledgable in grappling(wrestling) and as of late, bjj.
WWEwrestlingfan190 8 months ago
@ThomasMin1988 well saied, my friend!
vardalos1980 1 month ago
@ThomasMin1988 But it wouldn't matter if it's about grappling or not right because in a real fight blood and brutal ko's are expected to happen.
JESUSISGREATEST 3 weeks ago
@henh32 He did an armlock
bravo3000pirate 8 months ago
@bravo3000pirate Old fight against Botha. Akiyama is more of a puncher now but not that great at it.
henh32 8 months ago
The White Buffalo was very impressive for his first and only MMA fight. For example, at 0:42 you can see him use his legs to defend himself.
BandakaKush 1 year ago
@BandakaKush umm whats so impressive about that? all girls do that when there about to get raped, its just natural thing to do
ab3k1nz 1 year ago
Akiyama looks like Akuma from Street Fighter.
BLUDDYknucklez 1 year ago
I would think these mma faggots would have more respect for a Boxer and try to stand with them. But akiyama like Couture are cowards. The man has no experience in MMA and you want to pound him out. Thats great just perfect just don't dare to walk in the boxing ring Akiyama ;)
mercilessMarksmen 1 year ago
@mercilessMarksmen why should they "respect" boxers and give them special treatment. boxers step into the mma ring knowing they're facing guys who trained their whole lives for mma fighting. cowards my ass
boyofin 1 year ago
@boyofin Cowards your ass? Yeah your ass is a coward lol and yeah the reason i say they're cowards is because now that the boxer has stepping in their ring why dont the mma fighters fight them boxing rules? Let's see how that turns out ya know?
mercilessMarksmen 1 year ago
@mercilessMarksmen. LOL. MMA is real fighting and not Boxing! A MMA figher will smash and beat up and boxer on the street! a real fight is not only standing up!
On the street most of the street fighst ends on the ground.
DJBouncey 1 year ago
@DJBouncey ok faggot now that boxers have stepping into k-1 and mma I would like the mma fighters and k-1 to fight in boxing rules. Fair enough? yes.. nod your head for me bitch.
mercilessMarksmen 1 year ago
@mercilessMarksmen Some MMA fighters have Boxing records. It's not easy for an MMA fighter to get a fight with an elite Boxer. The athletic commission actually stopped Tim Sylvia from fighting Ray Mercer in a Boxing match. I'd love to see an MMA fighter fight a world class Boxer in a Boxing ring but setting something like that up isn't easy.
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
@MysticNinjaJay lol you know your comment really relaxed me and now im seeing things differently..You are right these mma fighters don't have enough seniority to host a main event with a Pro boxer.
mercilessMarksmen 1 year ago
@mercilessMarksmen Yeah this would be hard to set up. However on the last episode of Inside MMA KJ Noons said his people were in talks with the management of Mayweather and Pacquiao for him to have a Boxing match with them. Pacquiao is interested in an MMA fight so Noons suggested they do one fight in MMA and one fight in Boxing. I would be interested in seeing that.
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
@mercilessMarksmen
A boxer would kill an MMA fighter in a boxing ring, while the MMA fighter will break the boxers limbs in a MMA match.
sovietamerican2 1 month ago
@DJBouncey
actually NO combat sport is real fighting because street fighting also involves getting their eye gouged and getting their faces stomped in and biting and getting hit in the balls
no combat sport can prepare for that. anyway the ground game won't help if there are multiple people. so its a stupid argument
TommyGun7111 1 year ago
@TommyGun7111 No combat sport is a "real" fight because it's a competition, that's true. I think it can be argued however that the more skills you have the more prepared you are for a real fight. In MMA you learn striking and grappling which is useful even against multiple opponents. Suppose one opponent tries to take you down while the others beat on you. MMA can prepare you for defending against takedowns and scrambling to your feet while Boxing doesn't.
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
@MysticNinjaJay
MMA does not include eye gouging and punches and knees to the balls. and it doesn't include biting and getting your face stomped it. you can't even argue that. if you did that in mma you would get disqualified.
TommyGun7111 1 year ago
@TommyGun7111 Ofcourse. That's why I said it's not a real fight. It's a sport with rules. However what I'm saying is that MMA prepares you alot better for a street fight than Boxing does.
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
@TommyGun7111. LOL I am not talking about multiple peoples against one person.
MMA is the combat sport who is the most real fighting. Real fighting.
DJBouncey 1 year ago
@DJBouncey
well noen of them are just pure fighting.
TommyGun7111 1 year ago
@DJBouncey
and real fighting often is not 1on1....
anyway the argument is completely just theoretical anyway, in reality we dont know who would do better,
TommyGun7111 1 year ago
@mercilessMarksmen dunno what your problem is man. i'm not degrading boxing or anything like that, i just feel it's a stupid thing to call mma fighters cowards for destroying boxers who willingly put themselves in that mma ring knowing what's in store for them.
boyofin 1 year ago
Botha got too close to sexyamas junk and the excitement caused him to give up his arm.
illbeurcheapnovelty 1 year ago
But those elite boxers might have made much more dangerous MMA fighters than Bummerson because of how amazing their boxing skills are. But only after they develop alot more and better skills in other aspects of MMA. But even the most elite boxer might go down as easily as Bum-merson or Tap Out Toney. Because the problem is not how good they are at boxing, but how lacking they are in many other skills.
SocialDemocrats 1 year ago
The problem though is that '93 Bowe, Holyfield, Virgil Hill, or Lennox might have been vastly superior to Art "Tomato Can" Jimmerson as boxers, but that doesnt mean their take down defense or grappling skills were vastly superior to Bum-mersons.
I am perfectly willing to say that young Bowe might have been fairly easily taken down and submitted by Gracie or Shamrock. They might not have done any better.
SocialDemocrats 1 year ago
Stop whining that Botha wasn't "elite" at boxing. Akiyama is hardly elite at MMA. He fought hand picked fights in Japan for years before coming to America and scraping by Belcher and getting finished by Leben. At least Botha actually challenged for a title (twice). Akiyama is also a 185lber while Botha is a heavyweight.
Boxing is great, but it's not pure fighting. Botha got smacked around by a non-elite fighter half his size. Don't be silly.
SixT4 1 year ago
@SixT4 Akiyama's not really ranked in judo either...
grahamhg 1 year ago
Thats always been the problem in getting elite level boxers who are in their primes into MMA. The huge difference in money. Why would '93 Holyfield put aside multimililon dollar fights with Bowe to get into a cage agains Gracie and Shamrock for peanuts. It was never going to happen.
Jimmerson, medicore Can though he was, was probably as good a guy as they could have gotten back then.
SocialDemocrats 1 year ago
Art Jimmerson was never an "IBF Champion". He was a tomato can. A bum. When you think of the great boxers of 1993, Jimmerson was nowhere near it. His only notable fights were early round TKO losses to Jirov and Orlin Norris. He was a complete nobody at the time of UFC 1.
But there was no way to get Riddick Bowe, Holyfield, Lennox, Virgil Hill, Tyson (who was in the pokey), or even young James Toney, to agree to compete in it. The money was nothing compared to what they made in boxing.
SocialDemocrats 1 year ago
A BOXER CAN'T WALK INTO MMA AND WIN CONSISTENTLY WITHOUT ANY OTHER FORM OF TRAINING. it just can't happen stop being a stubborn idiot. Boxers make more money yes.. that doesn't diminish the skill or top mma fighters. you want to be technical? look at boxers entering kickboxing Ray Mercer is 0-2 and Botha is 4-11. you know why? because they're alien sports! none of us are taking any skills away from boxers.. MOST mma fans are in fact boxing fans. we are just tired of all you trash talking idiots.
SeaOfFate 1 year ago
@SeaOfFate Like I said, you're bringing up Mercer who's retired from boxing & who is in his late 40s & Botha who is also old & is a "never been." You guys choices of boxers are poor examples. Mercer retired from boxing because he can't no longer compete & I never seen Botha beat anyone important! GTFOH with these stupid examples! Like I said, name someone with the name of a PRIME Mayweather then I'll shut up! I don't know why ya'll keep bringing up old washed up boxers who haven't done anything
FreshTiDef 1 year ago
@SeaOfFate For the record, didn't Mercer KO Tim Silvia with the first punch of the fight? If boxers are at a disadvantage then how come an old washed up retired boxer like Mercer got a win in MMA vs a 33 years ex UFC Champ in Timmy? Explain that! BTW, you're wrong. MMA fighters are only use to dodging punches from strikers on their own level. They've never had to dodge punches from someone with the skill of an elite prime boxer. BIG difference!
FreshTiDef 1 year ago
Akiyama is very good fighter, very good technique and gentleman.
nico5173 1 year ago
@usfguy85 Tyson would have trouble with an MMA fighter with world class kickboxing skills like Alistair Overeem standing in an MMA fight. Brock Lesnar would demolish him on the ground. If anyone was dumb enough to stand and Box with him Tyson would win easily. Basically a Boxers best chance at winning an MMA fight is if the MMA fighter stands with them. They can end the fight with one punch as Mercer proved. But any decent MMA grappler would take them out as they have no TDD or ground game.
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
JUDO AKIYAMAAAAAAAA!!!
kaniniabuchaucibai 1 year ago
I can't wait to see this happen to James Toney lol
residualrevenge 1 year ago
Muay thay and Jujetsu compniation = wanderlie silva
kwt1976 1 year ago
@kwt1976 And alot of other fighters.
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
boxers who went to mma are WAY past there prime
rasofthedead 1 year ago
botha was a world class boxer with matches against greats like tyson in his prime and klitchko lol just another mma fighter beating a boxer...when will boxing fans learn?
Tavarith 1 year ago
@Tavarith What about former UFC champ Tim Sylvia getting knocked out in 10 seconds by a 50 YEAR OLD Ray Mercer?
michaelowensvr 1 year ago
but did tim sylvia go on to become heavyweight champ again? NOPE but botha did.....take care now *winks*
Tavarith 1 year ago
@Tavarith Botha NEVER was world champ again! In fact he has NEVER been a world champion!
michaelowensvr 1 year ago
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@Tavarith Botha NEVER was world champ again! In fact he has NEVER been a world champion!
michaelowensvr 1 year ago
there is some boxing haters over here..where do you think lots of top class fighters learn how to strike? btw..akiyama only loss was against a striker (kickboxer)
Matheusss89 1 year ago
@Matheusss89
Yeah, a kick boxer who outweighed him by almost 80 lbs.
jnateh 1 year ago
Comment removed
Matheusss89 1 year ago
No wonder Boxing is DEAD ...this was better than ten-twelve rounds of running and dancing
FranksFightDen 1 year ago
Boxers are at the bottom of the food chain when it come to fighting.
peacenlove4every1 1 year ago
Boxers are good fighters. They're just One-Dimensional by MMA standards. Their standup is very good.
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
@peacenlove4every1 Then why do you often see them beating the crap out of anyone more ground-oriented if those fail to hide in the groundfight? There's a reason Akiyama was scared to death and went instantly for Botha's leg; if they'd have exchanged punches, Akiyama might as well have gone home immediatly.
Blahb27 1 year ago
@Blahb27
Hiding in the ground fight? Grappling is just as much a part of fighting as striking. If you can't do both then you aren't a complete fighter.
jnateh 1 year ago
@peacenlove4every1 agree, but a boxer with world class wrestling is a dangerous mother fucker
f9hunter 1 year ago
True but rarely would one see such a specimen. In MMA most Boxer/Wrestlers have a wrestling base and cross-train in Boxing. So they are wrestlers with decent Boxing skills (e.g. Rampage and Rashad Evans). I think a world class Boxer with collegiate level wrestling could be a good MMA fighter but they'd need to cross-train extensively in MMA to became great. By that time they are pretty much a Mixed Martial Artist.
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
@MysticNinjaJay
do you know any pro boxers that did well in MMA ?
monkfg 1 year ago
@monkfg There's never been an MMA champion of a major ORG who had Boxing as his base. But not alot of Pro-Boxers have transitioned to MMA because they make more money in Boxing. Some MMA fighters like Marcus Davis and KJ Noons have Boxing records. There have been very few world class Boxers in MMA and none in their prime. Botha is the closet thing to a prime world class Boxer we've had. Ray Mercer did knockout Tim Sylvia but he also got submitted by Kimbo Slice in an exhibition.
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
@MysticNinjaJay Are you forgetting someone?? James toney takes on randy couture in near future
SirRampautus 1 year ago
@SirRampautus I look forward to that one.
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
I don't understand why people think Botha is totally worthless. Just a few years before this fight, he was fighting worldclass competition in boxing.
That's the problem with boxing fans, they don't acknowledge the ability of anyone who doesn't have a world title.
Theyellowma 1 year ago 8
That's true. Botha was a B-level fighter at the time he fought Akiyama and two years removed from a title fight. They're just trying to discredit the win because they don't want to recognize that Boxers can be easily beat by grapplers in MMA.
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
@Theyellowma , Botha has not been a boxing contender for a while even at this point. He got KO'd by Tyson, Lewis, Holifield & Klitschko and a few more at this point. The problem here is not the boxing fan but the mma fan who wants more credit then they deserve. Boxers always go into these things with the least experience against some of the top fighters of the sport. Never has an MMA guy gone to boxing and challenged a dominant boxer but they do talk plenty of shit from the sidelines
TheGILBERTnetwork 1 year ago
Botha was a contender only a two years before this fight, but you missed the point of my post. I wasn't talking about the imaginary "war" between boxing and MMA (Fought mostly by noobs in discussion forums). I was talking about how fighters get labeled as "bums" just because they're not the very best in the world.
Also, the fact that Botha fought all those fighters you mentioned puts him ahead of the vast majority of boxers.
Theyellowma 1 year ago
@Theyellowma Wow you're an idiot. Botha was LOSING! He's clearly washed up!
FreshTiDef 1 year ago
So according to you, a person who loses a fight automatically sucks? Botha has only lost to world champions and former world champions in boxing. You'd have to be a total noob to say he sucks based on that.
Theyellowma 1 year ago
@TheGILBERTnetwork Botha was only two years removed from a title fight with Wladimir Klitschko when this fight happened. He wasn't in his prime or a world champion but he was still a contender. Boxing loyalists are the ones always talking about how a Boxer would do in MMA. They constantly disrespect the skills and athleticism of MMA fighters and overrate a Boxer's chances in the sport. Even some Boxers talk shit about MMA. You rarely hear MMA fighters do the same because most respect Boxing.
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
@MysticNinjaJay They better respect boxing because MMA ain't shit! All the do is fight "washed up" boxers and think they've done something!,,lol
FreshTiDef 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef Are you implying that MMA fighters could not beat prime Boxers? To test that theory all we have to do is see a prime Boxer step into the Octagon. Floyd Mayweather chickened out when Dana White challenged him to fight Sean Sherk for the UFC Lightweight title. Prior to the Akiyama fight Botha had won 4 of his last 5 fights. His only loss was to Wladimir Klitschko. He won 3 straight when he returned to Boxing. So much for being washed up.
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef Who in the hell did he beat, you retard? Since he won a fight doesn't mean he isn't washed up. He may have beat some other bums...and yes, a prime boxer would smash on these useless MMA guys. MMA sucks!..LMAO!
FreshTiDef 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef If that's true then why hasn't a prime Boxer, for instance a contender, walked into the sport and smashed the MMA fighters? It would be easy money wouldn't? If they're such good fighters they could just sign up with the best ORGs and in a few fights beat the top ranked fighters and still compete in Boxing. Why don't they do this?
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
@MysticNinjaJay Because they make more money in boxing you idiot. Why would they take a MMA fight for $100,000 when they could get paid $5,000,000 for boxing? If I was making more money in boxing then I wouldn't fight MMA either.....
FreshTiDef 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef You haven't thought this through very well, asshole. I'm not talking about a Boxer taking up MMA full-time. I'm talking about a Boxer taking a few fights on the side against top MMA fighters. If they are so confident they can do it why don't they? Floyd Mayweather Jr. talked shit about MMA saying he could knockout a Boxer. Dana White offered him an immediate title shot at Sean Sherk and money that made sense to him. Mayweather declined and apologized. Why did he bitch out?
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef *saying he could knockout an MMA fighter. I'm going to be straight with you. If you think that a Boxer with little to no cross-training can waltz into MMA and not get taken down by a grappler who commits to a takedown like what happened in this video you are an idiot. Botha didn't lose because of age. He lost because he has no takedown defense or ground game. This is what happens to strikers with no TDD or ground game. It's been happening since UFC 1 (even earlier in Vale Tudo).
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef Tell me.. what makes this fight any different? so your saying a top tier boxer won't get taken down and submitted. Ohh you silly boxing fanboys!
SeaOfFate 1 year ago
@SeaOfFate No they wouldn't & a 40+ year old Botha isn't a top fighter. A elite boxer would smash you MMA faggots!
FreshTiDef 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef How would they avoid take-downs and submission with pure boxing?
SeaOfFate 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef Botha was 36 years old around the time of this fight. just sayin bro.
SeaOfFate 1 year ago
@SeaOfFate I'm back...Anyhow, I can't believe you MMA guys look at that Mercer/Kimbo fight as your proof. Did you know that Mercer is a retired boxer & he retired from boxing for a reason? If you don't know, he reitred because he couldn't no longer compete in boxing...But obviously he still have a competitive itch so what does he do? He join the minor leagues (MMA) which is a place where he can still compete (His KO on Timmy)! Nuff said!
FreshTiDef 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef There's nothing in a Boxer's arsenal which suggests that they can successfully fend off even a mediocre grappler. They specialize in punching above the waist. They have no takedown defense or ground game. Mercer could not compete, neither could any elite pure Boxer. Jimmerson was Top 10 ranked. That's elite. A Boxing superstar would fair no better. Why don't MMA haters like Mayweather and Hopkins come into MMA and embarrass the top fighters if they are so much better?
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
@MysticNinjaJay Someone that losses 18 time and can't beat anyone important isn't an elite boxer. Man stop kidding yourself...LMFAO!
FreshTiDef 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef It doesn't matter how many total losses he has in his career. What matters is what level of Boxer he was when he participated in the fight in question. When he fought Royce Gracie at UFC 1 Art Jimmerson was a Top 10 ranked Boxer and on a 15 fight winning streak. That is an elite Boxer. Note the difference between elite and well-known Superstar. He was in his prime and a more than credible representative of Boxing. He didn't fair any better than Botha.
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
@MysticNinjaJay and why would B-Hop or Floyd fight MMA for crumbs when they make millions in boxing? If I was them I wouldn't waste my time with MMA either. That's like trying to get Lebron James to join "And 1" basketball just to prove that NBA players are better than the "And 1" guys who does a bunch of streetball tricks....LMAO!
FreshTiDef 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef Just because MMA fighters make less money doesn't mean they are inferior athletes or fighters. If Boxers think they are superior fighters they should prove it. 1 or 2 fights on the side is all it would take to prove this. Again Dana White who is very wealthy offered Mayweather a title shot and money that would make sense to him. Money couldn't be the issue and there is no excuse. He apologized for his trash talk and declined like a coward.
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef How do you know what Dana White offered? You weren't there during any negotiations....Besides, I don't believe that for one second. First of all, Dana is a business man & it'll be bad business to offer Mayweather millions to fight in MMA. Every fighter in the MMA before Maywether would feel disrepected. They would feel like why can't Dana pay them that type of money & then turn around & pay Floyd who doesn't respect the sport. I really doubt that Dana would open that can of worms!
FreshTiDef 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef Dana White stated this publicly. You can look it up. Dana already has a bad reputation for under paying fighters. He offered Fedor an immediate title shot and something like a 6 fight $30 Million contract, more money than any MMA fighter has ever been paid. He's known for offering lucrative contracts to high profile fighters. Mayweather is a superstar. The UFC would get tons of publicity if he fought even one fight. I believe he would do it.
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
@MysticNinjaJay He didn't offer Fedor 30 million...LMFAO!
FreshTiDef 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef He did offer Fedor that. It was a multi-fight contract. And the Mayweather issue is public knowledge.
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef Yeah right. I haven't heard any of that!
FreshTiDef 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef Just google it man.
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
@MysticNinjaJay Never happened!
FreshTiDef 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef Yes it did. Those two stories are all over the internet at credible news sites. Look it up.
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
@MysticNinjaJay and like I said, I really doubt that he would open that can of worms. All the "so-called" legends of the UFC would raise hell!
FreshTiDef 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef Botha was still fighting title fights around this time bro.. he's just the best boxer and he often loses fights after controlling them. Holyfield, tyson and moorer. any boxer would suffer the same fate in mma with just pure boxing. they would get taken down, submitted or get pounded out. boxing is one dimensional sport. mma isn't and it's still evolving.
SeaOfFate 1 year ago
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@FreshTiDef Tell me.. what makes this fight any different? so you're saying a top tier boxer won't get taken down and submitted. Ohh you silly boxing fanboys!
SeaOfFate 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef Okay, well look what happen when 48 year old Mercer KO'd 33 year old ex "UFC Champ," Timmy w/ the first punch of the fight...LMAO! If a 48 year old washed up boxer can get wins in the MMA then what do you think would happened if a prime elite boxer was in MMA? I rest my case!
FreshTiDef 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef Did you forget that Mercer also lost to Kimbo, a street fighter with only a little bit of MMA training who had never had a professional fight in his life? Sure, if an MMA fighter tries to BOX with a Boxer the way Tim did they will most likely lose. But if they take it to the ground quickly the Boxer will be lucky to last 1 minute. This is a fact. Also elite MMA strikers have better standup than Boxers. Anderson Silva would kill a Boxer standing in MMA.
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
@MysticNinjaJay LMFAO...Man you're real funny. Silva sucks as a boxer.......and it doesn't matter if a 46 year old Mercer lost to a prime Kimbo because if you're washed up then you suppose to lose..What's not suppose to happen is a 48 year old Mercer KOing a ex UFC Champ that's 33. Mercer's losses doesn't hurt boxing but his wins hurts the MMA.
FreshTiDef 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef First of all MMA includes more than just Boxing. We're talking about MMA here. Silva is an expert at Muay Thai. He would demolish a Boxer on the feet. Mercer's loss hurts your argument that he would be a legit threat to the MMA elite who tried to grapple with him. The same would happen to a prime Boxer. Art Jimmerson was a Top 10 ranked Boxer and in his prime. Look at the Royce Gracie did to him.
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
@MysticNinjaJay Art Jimmerson? Who in the fuck is that? That guy have 18 losses as a boxer and never beaten anyone important. Give me an elite name like "Manny Paquiao" & I'll shut the fuck up. Don't mention those losers who couldn't make it in the boxing world either...My argument is that an "elite prime" boxer would destroy any MMA faggot........and your Mercer argument doesn't make sense. I guarantee that a "Prime Mercer" would had destroyed Kimbo!
To be Continued:
FreshTiDef 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef How would a prime-mercer have avoid a take-down? how would have he escaped the rear-naked choke that kimbo put on him?
SeaOfFate 1 year ago
@SeaOfFate What is the MMA fighter going to do with the accurate punching from an elite prime boxer? It takes a lot of training to avoid punches from an elite prime boxer. Shit even elite prime boxers have a tough time avoiding punches from another elite prime boxer. So what is the MMA fighter gonna do when he have an elite prime boxer (something he's never seen) come throwing the type of set up punches that he only know to do?
To be continued:
FreshTiDef 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef Botha was still a high level boxer around this time.. he was just getting stopped by higher caliber opponent.. In fact Botha recently had a really impressive outing against evander holyfeild who A LOT of people still consider a threat despite him being an older fighter. Botha was ahead on two of the judges score cards at the time he was knocked out. so don't tell me Botha can't Box. stop being stubborn and accept facts.
SeaOfFate 1 year ago
@SeaOfFate Wow you're retarded. You think Botha's a great fighter because he faught competitive against a 45 or 46 year old need to retire Holyfield...LMFAO.... and dude stop kidding yourself. No one is thinking that Holyfield is irrelevant anymore. Everyone body wants him to RETIRE! Holyfield been done years ago & even boxing tried to retire him against his own will years ago. You MMA guys are idiots! Ya'll look @ old washed up fighters or never beens as elite boxers. Ya'll pathetic!...LOL
FreshTiDef 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef How are you defining an elite Boxer? I think a Top 10 ranked fighter in their prime certainly qualifies which is what Art Jimmerson was. It's unreasonable to say that you have to be a Superstar to be elite. There aren't too many of those left in Boxing. Botha was atleast a B-level Boxer at the time of this fight. Did you look up the stories that I mentioned about Fedor and Mayweather? If so you should acknowledge them and address their implications.
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
@MysticNinjaJay Art Jimmerson was not an elite boxer & that's crazy to think so! Botha most certainly wasn't a B level boxer.The A level boxers are fighters like Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson, Floyd Mayweather, Andre Berto, Roy Jones. Ray Leonard, B Hopkins, Winky Wright. B level fighters are F. Vargas, R. Mayorga, V. Forrest, Zab Judah, A. Margarito. C lever fighters are A. Gotti, J. Diaz, P. Malignaggi, F. Botha, D. Tua, F. Oquendo. Anyways, anything C level & below isn't elite! A & B are elite!
FreshTiDef 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef It's subjective but I would consider fighters who are Top 10 to be A-level. Fighters that are Top 20 are B level. Fighters that are between Top 20 and Top 30 would be C-level. Below Top 30 is D-level and beyond. Botha during his prime hovered around Top 20 and got a few title shots. He fits within my criteria of B-level. But I want to hear you explain how you think an A-level Boxer would beat an MMA fighter committed to grappling. What would they do that lesser Boxers didn't?
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
@MysticNinjaJay Dude a fighter isn't an elite fighter since he's in the Top 10 of his weight division. Have you ever heard about certain divisions being weak and there is no good fighter in that division. Example: Like the current heavyweight division. Do you think the Klitschko brothers are bragging about ruling their division? Hell no because other than them there is nothing but C level fighters in that divison! A top 10 of a division doesn't make you elite! PERIOD!
FreshTiDef 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef Quality of divisions is a factor but generally rank determines the level of the fighter and logically the highest ranked are the elite. I don't think elite equates with legend or superstar. As for punches and kicks from what I have observed kicks are easier to land. You can get off more punches faster but most good kickers land more kicks than punches at the end of a fight. We're talking all kicks not just the advanced ones. Leg kicks are VERY easy to land.
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
@MysticNinjaJay No and that's why they have P4P rankings. A Top 10 in P4P rankings is an elite but not a Top 10 of a division. Like I said, too many divisions are weak to use that criteria.. Even the top guy in some divisions isn't an elite boxer. There is a lot of top guys in a division who would get their ass roasted by the # 3, 4, or 5th guy in another division. Like Samuel Peter who's a 6th guy of his division would stump Marco Huck who's the champ of his division.. P4P is how you rank elite
FreshTiDef 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef ...It would be a rare feat for a Boxer to resist a takedown from a grappler on GSP's level. I've been into the sport for a couple of years and watched alot of the early fights. Strikers who have no grappling training get taken down so easily and look completely lost on the ground. You can tell when a fighter doesn't know grappling. Boxers don't cross-train. They are great athletes and great punchers but for MMA you are a sitting duck without a ground game.
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
@MysticNinjaJay I had the honor of watching James Toney lose to Randy Couture LOL.
SeaOfFate 1 year ago
@SeaOfFate Yep. Toney didn't even land one punch. He is washed up but Randy Couture is 47 years old. It's not like he was fighting a young top fighter. Toney had 9 months to prepare and that's all he could do. That was pathetic.
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago
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RANDY COUTURE VS JAMES TONEY
Tavarith 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef Read what happened to James Toney last night LOL. But i bet you think James is washed up.
SeaOfFate 1 year ago
@SeaOfFate I seen it & that fight didn't prove shit. James Toney came in FAT, he's punch drunk (listen to him talk), isn't in the right weight divison (his best fight were @ 160 to 175), & he's 42 years old. James Toney is waaay past his prime and yes he is washed up. Toney haven't done anything important in boxing for some years now! So what if Couture beat a 5'9, 237lb (fat), 42 year old boxer who was fighting in a division too big for him? Lets see Couture do that to the younger Klitschko!
FreshTiDef 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef I think randy might have a hard time with either of the klitchkos but thats only because of size. bit if randy gets the take-down the fights over. I think Brock Lesnar could handle either of the klitchkos. none of this matters. James talked tons of trash and didn't back any of it up.
SeaOfFate 1 year ago
@SeaOfFate Anyways, did you see what a 48 year old retired boxer in Ray Mercer done to ex UFC champ Tim Sylvia who was 33? Nuff said!
FreshTiDef 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef Thats because Tim Sylvia agreed to stand-up with ray mercer. Ray was upset that the rules were changed to mma rules. but had Tim actually gone in for a double leg or even clinched with Ray the fight would have been over. the most garbage mma fighter Kimbo Slice stopped Ray in a little over a minute!
SeaOfFate 1 year ago
@MysticNinjaJay Still not easy as a punch ..Anyhow, if you're an elite figher you would be at least a "star" or a "superstar." Because being elite leads to winning, winning leads to success, & success leads to fame! I don't consider someone elite if they can win 20 fights working their way up by fighting bums but then start losing when they get tested by the elite that's already established. If you're elite you're gonna beat named guys & make a name for yourself!
FreshTiDef 1 year ago
@FreshTiDef Not a bad argument however let's not get sidetracked from the main issue. Boxers competing in MMA. Boxing loyalists don't seem to have much respect for MMA. It's one thing not to like the sport but you guys come up with so many falsehoods about it. MMA fighters are just as good of athletes as Boxers and they are more complete fighters. I'm not saying MMA is better than Boxing but it takes alot of skill to succeed and an elite Boxer cannot come in and dominate.
MysticNinjaJay 1 year ago