I recant of what I said about the traditional Catholic faith and religion, in concerns to it being a negative, or painful presence on the Earth; I was confused, decieved, but most of all maliciously foolish. The traditional Catholic Faith, and Religion, is a necessary religion and faith, and is the only pure, and redeeming hope for humanity in this present age...
I recant of what I said about the traditional Catholic faith and religion, in concerns to it being a negative, or painful presence on the Earth; I was confused, decieved, but most of all maliciously foolish. The traditional Catholic Faith, and Religion, is a necessary religion and faith, and is the only hope for humanity in this present age.
If it was not for the suffering and death of Christ there would be no Resurrection or Salvation. The blood that was on the whips and the spears of those Roman soldiers 2,000 years ago is the same blood that offers purification and cleanses the sins from the souls of a penitent Christian. Christ Lives!!!
And may I add a footnote ~~> "And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, "shall he find FAITH on the earth?" (Luke 18:7-8)
This is a beautiful poem which ironically paints a picture by an atheist of how empty man is without God. Many skeptics and atheist often portray the same picture and they don't even realize it.
@HolyMisfit That's not true atheism. That's atheism through a religious looking glass. And maybe you could say Neitzsche wasn't a true atheist then, which is fine by me.
You can't actually answer that question of a world without the idea of gods, because our world has that idea.
@Noxshus This quote has nothing to do with his own personal beliefs, if you had any sense of what you were talking about and reflected on his work- you'd know he is the biggest atheist of all time. He called Christianity an immortal blemish on the human race, and while this particular parable is very profound and at times confusing, it is mainly a reflection of the absence of the Christian "God" to give men meaning, and creating a benchmark afterward.
Why do people think that this is about God and Atheism... It's about the old views of the world verses the modern view, God is simply a symbol of those ideas and traditions which came from religion mostly... you can't read Nietzsche literally
Right! Nietzsche was speaking of morality and Judeo-Christian principles that people, who were otherwise atheists, were living under. He chose a madman as his mouthpiece here perhaps to imply that the "murder of God" would lead society into "madness" (Nihilism) until the aristocracy was established and master morality achieved.
@AgApE010 Perhaps he was simply being prophetic using the madman... but thats unfair of me. There are many ways one can understand the use of the Madman, and by that measure the idea of madness itself... I wouldn't call nihilism madness, at least not as opposed to the idea of God himself- I can claim that to be madness too... Madness is a social idea, so it's just the opposite of the zeitgeist in a way... as for morality, it's just as tentative in my opinion,
Well look at it from Nietzsche's standpoint. Moral nihilism is indeed absurd, and he seems to have seen this as a transitional stage from religion-based morals and master morality. But yes, Nietzsche is infamously difficult to interpret, so I don't, by any means, intend to be dogmatic in my claim.
@AgApE010 I don't think he was directly or rather solely addressing morality, it was more widely the way in which people understand their world. Morals can play a part... Moral nihilism isn't absurd in practice but in notion. They idea that people could interact without having an idea of how to is impossible, but this all depends how one wants to define morality, in it's more simplified form it tell people what's right and wrong, this mean how to behave, without which we can't
Actually, the context of the Parable was speaking of morality. It was here that Nietzsche distinguished between "slave morality" and "master morality." His indictment against the people was that they understood their world as "godless" but yet they still clung to Christian principles ("slave morality"). The people had "murdered God," and now Nietzsche existentially calls them to live accordingly. Hence the madman's words: "Shall we not ourselves have to become Gods?"
@DsaiTheWhite here Nietzsche was adressing morality. What hes saying isnt that there is absolutely no morality, hes saying we have rejected the ideals of slave morality or gods morality. Thus we have killed the social construction that is god as he no longer serves a purpose to uphold our morals. Instead he asks Shall we not ourselves have to become gods? telling you that you to have The Will To Power and are your own god able to set your own moral values and decide how you act in the world
@HammarHeart I think,what would hammarheart do, then I do the opposite! I listened to your music, sounds alot like Justin Bieber. Keep practicing,bathe daily and clean your room like mom tells you. Behave yourself!!!! You must learn your koran, and you must learn how to do the 'Freddie" Put your hand over your head and jump on one foot. You're getting there! Do the Freddie and sing with a scottish accent! call yourself, 'wie willie hammar' Wear a kilt and eat boiled potatoes & beer!
Does it not seem to anyone else, that it is terribly ironic that Ravi should pull this passage from Zarathustra and use it only to reaffirm Christianity?
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity03 well its pretty obvious that even if there was one, he is not good, even evil. . Thankfully there is no God, I wouldnt even worship nor choose to beleive even if there was, Their acts are cruel.
@TheBaneOfAmbiguiity Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!'
@jimmymot This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it's still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything's going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise. I think this may be something we need to be on the watch out for.'
@TheBaneOfAmbiguiity and, that is why i dont judge you for seeking god, as i sought god, and as every man seeks god, or something to make sense of it all, to hope for. but it reminds me of a story Douglas Adams told of a puddle which I shall subsequent post, and which I feel sums up the necessity for an objective/scientific basis for our philosophical pursuits....
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity33 i guess what i'm saying is that the mistakes the scientific community makes is all in the direction of progress, and the evils science has given us are matched by those of theology. And what has theology really given us but psuedo-science? i dont mean that in an insulting way, but in a literal way: many people believe theology was a kind of primitive science, the human mind trying to understand our world, and our place in it.
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity33 The fact that you see the idea of consciousness reduced to biology as hopeless is very telling. An intellectually honest person should accept the TRUTH first, and worry about its implications after accepting it. Where is the soul if not in the brain? No where we can prove in this life: in reality. The danger in philosophy is that an argument/idea can be logically sound even when its premise is flawed. thats where fact (science) becomes essential.
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity7 You warn me to be wary of modern thinking, the potential "new religion" of science, and its obsession with 100% provable truth. Yet, what is beautiful about scientific thinking is its commitment to truth. Science will never be religion because good skepticism opposes faith. You sound a lot like the post-enlightenment thinkers, who rightfully grew concerned when painful truths begin to emerge. But we understand these things better now, so we cannot simply choose to ignore em
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity3 god is not an absolute because there is no proof for him or the supernatural. math is the only thing absolute - it is the only science that is 100% provable, without relying on our own subjective experience. i used to believe in god, and then mysticism, because i craved truth, the ultimate truth. but do you want to risk living a lie to avoid accepting an incomplete truth that stings? you seem invested in truth or i wouldn't bother. but read the god delusion.
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity1.you can't claim to completely understand Nietzsche meaning - even professional philosophers disagree about him, its somewhat of a running joke. however, it is generally accepted that he did not believe in an 'absolute morality' and that is why his ideas were considered nihilistic. but he was certainly not a solipsist, like you're describing, "no meaning". ultimately, morality is unique to humans, as only we can reflect on our intentions. but that does not mean it is divine.
There's no such thing. Atheists are very different individuals with no unifying worldview or philosophy.
"Atheism•a lack of belief in the existence of God or gods" -that is all
Talking about "God is dead and we have killed him" Has nothing to do with atheism. A god would have to be real in order to kill him. Atheists don't hate god, no, that would be stupid, about as sane as hating Santa Claus, another fictional entity.
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity The term "Evil" is of no relevance to this discussion, however, as it is applied in Nietzsche's thought the term itself lends it's own to anything that cuts the individual short, cripples his pursuit in life, and basically the entire religion of Christianity he would see as "evil".
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity Nietzsche despised Hedonism and saw ruinous excess as the demise of the individual as opposed to the edification, as opposed to Christianity which makes a sin out of basic human drives, his philosophy promotes libertarian individualism and throws out and denounces any sort of need for anything worthless such as a divine concept. Your statement is exactly what he was referring too, a man gives himself meaning, and only the herd has need for "god"
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity No once again you deliberately obfuscate what his intentions were, he had no system or tenets of belief such as Christianity. He saw such things as needless and designed inherently to subjugate man to a system of moral absolutes that in and of themselves are unachievable, whereas "god" he saw was a self defeating ideal, the concept of overman is achieved in any way in which an individual rises above the herd whether by means of the arts or disavowal of the Christ cult.
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity He succeeded largely, in this secular world religion loses it's grip on a daily basis, not to mention since you have a convoluted view of his philosophy, you would never be able to understand as you are a Christian. The Will to Power was assembled after he died and it's a collection of his musings and notes, his sister put it together and used it for her twisted political fascist leanings, but it's largely his philosophy at it's rawest
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity Nonsense, it depends on the perspective on which it is read, to me it means solely that after the inevitable declaration of "God is dead" one must inevitably tarry forward on the process of ubermensch. The Christian mumbo jumbo comes as a result of the logical death, the mere Requiem aeternam ad deo for a system of parasitic beliefs that has thrived on humanity. It's not his sigh of sadness in the face of a godless world, it's a declaration of strength
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity It has nothing to do with being the "slave" of oneself, and everything to do with overcoming oneself. He rightfully understood the fact that any system of belief that denigrates human existence in favor for something otherworldly could only otherwise remove the value of the here and now, this is not "higher living" it's putting one's life on hold for something that is not absolute. He recognized that his philosophy would smash Christian theology
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity Any system of beliefs that denied reality by any sort of "other world", he would denounce and despise. I suggest you read the Will to Power, as he is clearly against any and all forms of Christianity.
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity Not only that, but Nietzsche does not advocate to live life miserably. He says this is a product of nihilism created by the modern world, which he once again kritiks. He proposes accepting and embracing all parts of life, in order to overcome them and live life joyously and to the fullest
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity First of all, being a tyrant and being cruel is a product of the slave morality which Nietzsche kritiks. Ex: Hitler who felt a great ressentiment against the Jewish people feeling the need to create violence to topple them. This is the slave morality. Nietzsche's master morality does not justify the killing or dominance of others. Nietzschean philosophers have said " The will to power, is not a will that wants to dominate, surely this would rely on old values such as morality
Since those new-atheists, my thoughts about science was pretty much the ones from Cioran. Science arouse from a half-true of a concealed assumption (the so called "first truth"), so science describe instead of explain anything. Nothing but theories. When people talk about "moral values" as some sort of fact/importance or "human rights" as some sort of consensus, it's teared apart the honesty and unbiased legacy.
He didn't say the world would be any worse for the death of god, which seems to be your insinuation.
If you cared to to read any Nietzsche you'd see that he relished the opportunity to re-evaluate morality in the absence of a Christian 'slave morality'.
Even the content of the speech does not suggest the world will be any worse for its lack of religion - This isn't the damning revelation you seem to think it is.
@emphaticapathy: He didn't said anything we can be sure about. He wrote and I understand interpretation as a subjective concept, there are no "right" or "wrong" interpretation (except in religion).
@XzavierKnives your not happy, look at you trying to prove yourself. what about an eternity of nothingness, never again existing. you would have to love nothing to want that !! dont throw away your passions and your lust for life just because a few ancient religions have relatively sadist gods. nietzsche is about affirming life!!!
@chipgowest I'm not happy about death, but there has never been a shred of evidence for the afterlife (don't give me that psuedoscience bullshit) , and tons against it, so if you want to be delusional, so be it. Truth has nothing to do with happiness, though on a day to day level, I am very happy. Furthermore, don't project yourself onto me in an attempt to tell ME that I'm not happy! Do you know how ignorant and stupid that sounds?
@LukeShetler im an atheist, btw, and hate christianity; ive seen what telling someone (who probably has no free will) their a born sinner can lead to. nietzsche killed god, for the enhancement of man, because he was proud of humanity; he had too much love to allow a religion of resentment to run un apposed. im taking a dig at atheists, who care not for the betterment of man, the search for moral truth, enhancing mans suffering to creativity and affirmation. (science without philosophy, nihilism)
@chipgowest Science is a method (it has proven that most morals are innate, contrary to nihilism). As a method it is able to show us what general reality is, as opposed to the reality of the individual, who is heavily flawed, emotional, and prone to psychosomatic states. There are millions of Americans who believe they have certain illnesses which have been proven to be non-existant by scientific studies. These people do not care, as they value their personal experience. Science demands more.
@LukeShetler you are right on. However i do not believe in christ because of the afterlife he talks about. This is a rebuttal to a denial of an acceptecne of God that is totally unfounded. In fact i am agnostic in terms of the afterlife. I believe in christ because he is Truth. I follow him because he is way to a life of Truth in which one can begin to develop a real comprehension of reality. If you disagree with me, you cannot deny the belief that to be good is to be powerful. Nietszche knew
@ThisLittleBlackBook Hell yeah, my friend. I consider myself an aesthete above anything else. Except I never had a word for it until a couple years ago. I'm always after the aesthetic quality of a thing or idea or piece of music. Especially music.
@papadioup8, I think he meant that his target audience was in the future. His concepts were so advanced that he predicted the future of theism and philosophy in terms of the general public as a whole. Nowadays we see how atheism and agnosticism are growing exponentially, but I think his target audience lies still in a further future, maybe 50 years more...
@dunkelblau2006 Or maybe people follow ideologies even though they do not understand them and those who consider themselves atheists are sheep just as much as those who dont question there own religion are.
Ravi is citing Nietzsche because he believes he supports his argument, that we need to get morality from God. But we have shown that this is not so - Euthyphro's dilemma shows it, and Sartre later showed it when he points out that in order to get morals from God, we must view God as good according to our own conscience.
From the atheist perspective, God is not dead. He never existed in the first place. Therefore, we don't need him and never did. He was a magic feather. All this time we've been living without God.
"But when Zarathustra was alone he spoke thus to his heart:"Could it be possible? This old saint in the forest has not yet heard anything of this, that God is dead!"
I don't believe Nietzsche was an athiest.. "God is dead," doesn't mean God doesn't exist. It means the Christian God (which drove Europe for over a thousand years and highly influenced the U.S.) had lost relevance in many or most people's lives.
He was a militant agnostic, if anything. Wishing not to speculate on what WE DON'T KNOW. But to live on this earth and make the most of it and forget about afterlifes or other escapes. Treat life and the earth as all there is. (besides outer space)
it seems that your main point is that no one can define that line between good and evil but my point is that YOU CAN! NOT EVERYTHING IS AS RELATIVE AS YOU SAY IT IS!
BAD THINGS ARE BAD AND GOOD THINGS ARE GOOD
SHOULD WE WAIT FOR GOD TO GIVE US HIS OPINION ON 911 OR THE HOLOCAUST BEFORE WE DECIDE IF THEY'RE GOOD OR BAD? NO THEY'RE BAD AND THAT'S THE TRUTH PEOPLE WHO THINK THEY'RE NOT (NAZIS/TERRORISTS) ARE MISGUIDED HATEFUL PEOPLE AND THEIR OPINIONS ARE NOT TO BE CONSIDERED OR RESPECTED
"that's summed up quite simply in "love your neighbor as yourself.""
And summed up pretty nicely as well when God gives his people his command to kill all nonbelievers, and followers of a different faith. As well as his many endorsed genocides and massacres and rapes carried out by his command.
@alexgillespie1 don't believe me try proving color to a man born blind!!!!
just cuz he lacks the sense of sight doesn't make color any less real.
same is true of God.
if u deny God then something has to take his place. if u deny a soul something has to take it's place. and that ends up being man and the body. Man becomes God; the body becomes the soul and the sole purpose of existence.
"just cuz he lacks the sense of sight doesn't make color any less real."
I'm not even going to begin on how flawed this statement is....
"Man becomes God; the body becomes the soul and the sole purpose of existence."
Define the soul.
And also, what is so wrong about man becoming God when man created God? After all, it is man and not God who is responsible for ALL the laws/rules established in EVERY society.
@baezalejandro Fallacious argument. You're "affirming the consequent". Colour is axiomatic. Those who aren't impaired can see it quite clearly. The same can't be said for God. But, if He does manifest then please ask Him for his opinion on the matter, 'cause I'd really like to know.
we're talking about the Creator of Life, not santa claus.
which is funny becuz the anger at which athiests speak of God they would not speak against the tooth fairy!!
God and eternity is just another state of being. just cuz u don't see it doesn't make it any less real, just like color and just like any of the other senses.
of course u'll never truly know until you're dead.
@baezalejandro You simply saying that the so called "Creator of Life" is not like Santa Claus does not make it so. You're providing no evidence to support your claims.
Listen, there's a reason it's called "faith". FAITH: a belief that is not based on proof. If you have faith in God then you can have absolutely no rational argument for your position because there are none.*Please note: I'm not saying there is no God; I'm just saying there's no way to prove it*
@pander22 There is no proof that God exists, but if believing in God makes people act good, not killing each other but helping each other.. what difference does it make if he exists or not???
What use is color to the blind man? Well what use is faith to atheist, The colors are made not for a blind man....
@pander22 Man has never killed in the name of God, man killed because the book called "Bible", because of institution called "Church" church has nothing to do with God.
Blind man is indifferent to colours, I dont know what are you trying to say here? What do you want to prove?
@KillThatEmoChild So people kill not in the name of God but the bible?!? If that is indeed true then you're just splitting hairs. Is the bible not the word of God? Is the church not where people go to pray and learn about Him? How else would we even know about God if it weren't for these things?
And I'm not trying to say/prove anything when it comes to the colour/God comparison. As I mentioned in a previous message, it is affirming the consequent. It's a fallacy.
@pander22 But if you do not believe in god wouldnt that mean the bible couldnt be the word of god but the words of men, wouldnt that mean your argument against the worship of a god would be disolved as you say "I do not believe in god but they kill in the name of their god, they kill for god and not what they have been taught or learned, but as the bible is the word of god then indeed they do kill for their god" can this train of though exists wouldnt you have to believe the men -
@pander22 either did indeed kill for there god, where as if the bible is the word of the god they follow, then god would indeed exist, or that these men are fools for following the scripture of ancient men who had lied to them for some reason. Or perhaps there is a god but liars had written down scripture though it was not gods will, as if people do indeed have free will then they would have the abilty to lie about each other or about the will of god?
oh and if you want to prove color to a blind man (if it's his eyes not his brain that doesn't work) give him lsd he should start to hallucinate and "see" colors
and in a completely seperate but twice as intriguing thought, what is a blind mans dream like?
@alexgillespie1 my point is that just becuz u can't scientifically proove God doesn't make him anyless real. we're not talking about the toothfairy here, we're talking about the creator of all things.
if u believe there is such a thin as evil then i can proove God to you. if u honestly believe that evil is subjective u must also standby and allow floodgates for any act to be justified. becuz a mans raping of a woman is completely subjective who r u to stop him and tell him his action is "wrong"
@baezalejandro i didn't say that AT ALL but to your completely random point about evil being real in response to my point that your analogy about blind people and colour is meaningless i do believe that evil is real, it is possible for an act to be wrong in that case it's because the victim is violently raped against their will. theres nothing wrong about him doing it to an innanimate object (besides being weird) because there's no victim.
if you believ in evil i can prove to you there's no god
@baezalejandro “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” Epicurus – Greek philosopher, BC 341-270 that's fucking wisdom bitch lol
@alexgillespie1 ppl often say, "couldn't God simply get rid of evil?"
well the answer to that is he did at one point: the garden. God respects an indivisuals free will so much becuz it's what seperates you from robots, but u can destroy freedom as much by abusing it as u can by taking it away.
when there was perfect harmony in the garden the ONLY command God gave man was to not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. why? becuz man has no right to redefine what is good & what is evil
@baezalejandro umm... according to the bible he created the garden right after creating existance so he must have created evil too.
and why would god put the tree where people could reach it? why make a fruit that gives you that knowledge? if right and wrong(evil) didn't exist before eve ate the apple(in the evilless garden) how could god expect eve to do the right thing if the wrong thing never existed?
... and where did dinosaur bones come from? did he just bury them to fuck with us?
@alexgillespie1 and if u believe in evil i can prove God to u.
if u assume such a thing as evil u must also assume there's such a thing as good. if u assume there is such a thing as good and evil u must assume there is a moral law to differentiate between the 2.
if u assume there is a moral law u must also assume there is a moral law GIVER(God). if u don't the question then self destructs becuz u can't have the latter without the former.
@baezalejandro umm killing is wrong because it causes pain to the victim and his loved ones. undeniably true. no god involved. you're a complete idiot to think otherwise.
there is a word for that line you call god it's called ethics.
@alexgillespie1 even plato said, "an end is desired because it SEEMS good; it does not seem good because it is desired."
and if u know anything pedophiles and ppl into beastiality don't view there sexual preference anymore evil or wrong than homosexuals or heterosexuals.
man has done the exact thing God tried to warn us of... REDEFINE what is "good" and what is "evil".
@baezalejandro umm there is no god so we're sort of just defining it but as i've shown you twice now and im sure you could find endless examples of people defining right and wrong in better wording than i can without ever mentioning god by using logic.
the bible says slavery is ok... so is it? NO! i could talk to a preschooler and he'd say the same thing 1000/1001 times
GOD DOES NOT HAVE THE FINAL SAY ON MORALITY NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES YOU SAY HE DOES!!!
@alexgillespie1 u have a flawed understanding of slavery and the bible. paul even wrote a book on the topic in the new testament calle the letter to Philemon. u should read it some time.
2nd if slavery is a relative idea what do u care if ppl practice it? even if u have a personal problem with it u have no right to tell someone what to think becuz what's bad to u might be good to him.
@baezalejandro umm lincoln ran a campaign against that very idea because who is anyone to deny another mans freedom
it's not relative slavery is wrong. the only reason someone might percieve slavery as good would be that it gets them easy money however ask the slave and he'll tell a different story, slavery is wrong because it does more evil than good
good=money/stuff
bad=human freedom denied
btw it's pretty ironic that an athiest is explaining to a christian why rape/killing/slavery is wrong
human's have always formed themselves in tribes much like apes.
an apes don't give a rats ass what happens to an ape on the other side of the globe. in fact apes often steal babies from different tribes and tear them limb from limb.
so by your logic what hitler did was perfectly fine. he was simply protecting his tribe (the aryan race)!
Nietzsche wrote that we should all find out things for ourselves. Though most are content to regurgitate what he said. Instead of challenging ourselves, by finding the spark within our minds and etching our own directions to the next generation of readers and thinkers. Perhaps god is dead or possibly never existed, yet a god or gods could be watching and listening to us, as we ponder all these possibilities. Either way we simply must find our OWN way in this existence.
It's interesting how many atheist are not indifferent to the idea of God. :) Why they aren't ? They hate that idea and make that idea stronger. And real. :) Nitzche is right in one thing. Hate is fear. If they want's to kill him they must stop thinking even against him, not only on him !!! But that's not happening. :) Negation of something means that "something exist". To me.
I beleive in reasonable creator, that we are created, but our will are free from every religion, only limited by nature..
Theists always use this story and say, "ooooh, I agree with Nietzsche. Atheism is scary!" Yeah, but uh, it's not like he threw his arms in the air and said, "yep, there's no value there's no meaning, you may as well kill yourself right now." Nietzsche's biggest goal in his philosophy was the attempt to restore earthly meaning and value in life that was perverted by religious faith.
You can kill yourself eather, but that's not the point. Getting busy with his thought is suicidefull in long time, if you interpreted it in the way as he think and wrote it.
@grmbtl I interpreted it exactly the way he wrote it. It was critical of people who were atheistic in thought and religious in practice. It wasn't a concession that life no longer has value, because he thought it did--Subjectively.
Theists say, "Nietzsche was right, this is what atheism entails!" But that's a shallow understanding of the idea.
It is a Lie so disgusting, and deceptive, I would not be surprised if it has caused the ruin of many souls.
MarcouA3 3 days ago
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity13 Part 2.
But I am not worthy to speak upon it at all, or with authority, therefore I will conclude swiftly...
As for this religion of Nietzsche, in that God is dead, making all life meaningless , it is madness - and most of all, a Lie.
MarcouA3 3 days ago
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@TheBaneOfAmbiguity13 • *My Old Account, 'TheBaneOfAmbiguity',
Part 1.
I recant of what I said about the traditional Catholic faith and religion, in concerns to it being a negative, or painful presence on the Earth; I was confused, decieved, but most of all maliciously foolish. The traditional Catholic Faith, and Religion, is a necessary religion and faith, and is the only pure, and redeeming hope for humanity in this present age...
MarcouA3 3 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@MarcouA3 Faith and hope, in the traditional Catholic Faith, and Religion, is the only pure, and redeeming hope for humanity in this present age...
MarcouA3 1 day ago
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity13 *My Old Account, 'TheBaneOfAmbiguity',
I recant of what I said about the traditional Catholic faith and religion, in concerns to it being a negative, or painful presence on the Earth; I was confused, decieved, but most of all maliciously foolish. The traditional Catholic Faith, and Religion, is a necessary religion and faith, and is the only hope for humanity in this present age.
MarcouA3 3 days ago
Diogenes meets Dionysus.
voidforpurpose 5 days ago
If it was not for the suffering and death of Christ there would be no Resurrection or Salvation. The blood that was on the whips and the spears of those Roman soldiers 2,000 years ago is the same blood that offers purification and cleanses the sins from the souls of a penitent Christian. Christ Lives!!!
SeraphimSword 1 week ago
Could have been interpreted better.
extros1 4 weeks ago
Adolf Hitler and the Nazis claimed that Nietzsche was one of their great inspirations.
SpictacularJon 1 month ago
brilliant video
msjessypp 1 month ago
Comment removed
reanimated6 1 month ago
By gum, Nietzsche was a bad ass!!!
elvispelt 2 months ago
Ravi Zacharias (whoever he is) really sucks at narrating passages it seems.
stupidrenner 3 months ago
Thanks to the haters for making the Like-bar look like a blunt.. ups wrong video
zebwinkler 3 months ago
Why to Christians love to quote Nietzsche so much?
shoopoop21 4 months ago
And may I add a footnote ~~> "And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, "shall he find FAITH on the earth?" (Luke 18:7-8)
aliveinthelamb 4 months ago
@aliveinthelamb Nietzsche still hated you
demondays7 4 months ago
worst entonation ever
omel5 4 months ago
FUCK Ravi Zacharias
Drgamedood 4 months ago
This is a beautiful poem which ironically paints a picture by an atheist of how empty man is without God. Many skeptics and atheist often portray the same picture and they don't even realize it.
watch?v=xvghod2uv_0
HolyMisfit 5 months ago
@HolyMisfit That's not true atheism. That's atheism through a religious looking glass. And maybe you could say Neitzsche wasn't a true atheist then, which is fine by me.
You can't actually answer that question of a world without the idea of gods, because our world has that idea.
Noxshus 3 months ago
@Noxshus This quote has nothing to do with his own personal beliefs, if you had any sense of what you were talking about and reflected on his work- you'd know he is the biggest atheist of all time. He called Christianity an immortal blemish on the human race, and while this particular parable is very profound and at times confusing, it is mainly a reflection of the absence of the Christian "God" to give men meaning, and creating a benchmark afterward.
viletree 3 months ago
@viletree What? What are you talking about? Did you see who I was replying to? I don't think you understand what my point was.
Noxshus 3 months ago
Brings tears to my eyes... Beautiful...
dellaire11 5 months ago
mankind invented "God" and so Mankind has a perfect right to declare him dead.
Avalon400 5 months ago
@Avalon400 watch?v=xvghod2uv_0
HolyMisfit 5 months ago
Can anyone tell me where the original audio came from what talk of ralphie zachariades this came from thank you so much
Vpopov81 5 months ago
Wow...... what tremendous poetry. When I read Nietzsche's description of the most contemptible man, the ultimate man i think of my generation.
Vpopov81 6 months ago
Nietzsche would run intellectual circles around Ravi and his dumb claims.
Drgamedood 6 months ago
Why do people think that this is about God and Atheism... It's about the old views of the world verses the modern view, God is simply a symbol of those ideas and traditions which came from religion mostly... you can't read Nietzsche literally
DsaiTheWhite 7 months ago
@DsaiTheWhite
Right! Nietzsche was speaking of morality and Judeo-Christian principles that people, who were otherwise atheists, were living under. He chose a madman as his mouthpiece here perhaps to imply that the "murder of God" would lead society into "madness" (Nihilism) until the aristocracy was established and master morality achieved.
AgApE010 6 months ago
@AgApE010 Perhaps he was simply being prophetic using the madman... but thats unfair of me. There are many ways one can understand the use of the Madman, and by that measure the idea of madness itself... I wouldn't call nihilism madness, at least not as opposed to the idea of God himself- I can claim that to be madness too... Madness is a social idea, so it's just the opposite of the zeitgeist in a way... as for morality, it's just as tentative in my opinion,
DsaiTheWhite 6 months ago
@DsaiTheWhite
Well look at it from Nietzsche's standpoint. Moral nihilism is indeed absurd, and he seems to have seen this as a transitional stage from religion-based morals and master morality. But yes, Nietzsche is infamously difficult to interpret, so I don't, by any means, intend to be dogmatic in my claim.
AgApE010 6 months ago
@AgApE010 I don't think he was directly or rather solely addressing morality, it was more widely the way in which people understand their world. Morals can play a part... Moral nihilism isn't absurd in practice but in notion. They idea that people could interact without having an idea of how to is impossible, but this all depends how one wants to define morality, in it's more simplified form it tell people what's right and wrong, this mean how to behave, without which we can't
DsaiTheWhite 6 months ago
@DsaiTheWhite
Actually, the context of the Parable was speaking of morality. It was here that Nietzsche distinguished between "slave morality" and "master morality." His indictment against the people was that they understood their world as "godless" but yet they still clung to Christian principles ("slave morality"). The people had "murdered God," and now Nietzsche existentially calls them to live accordingly. Hence the madman's words: "Shall we not ourselves have to become Gods?"
AgApE010 6 months ago
@DsaiTheWhite here Nietzsche was adressing morality. What hes saying isnt that there is absolutely no morality, hes saying we have rejected the ideals of slave morality or gods morality. Thus we have killed the social construction that is god as he no longer serves a purpose to uphold our morals. Instead he asks Shall we not ourselves have to become gods? telling you that you to have The Will To Power and are your own god able to set your own moral values and decide how you act in the world
cyb3rwolf51 5 months ago
@cyb3rwolf51 Ummm, ok, not sure what the point of your message is... I didn't oppose that, I was addressing a different issue... but whatever
DsaiTheWhite 5 months ago
Hey Ravi!
Read slowly when the content requires thought.
I wish to ruminate...
Lsdfunk 7 months ago
@SoldierOfLight1 You found "God"!?
And it speaks English?
:o
Lsdfunk 7 months ago
Nietzsche was magnificent.
SororThothma 7 months ago
Sounds like a man 'with a paper asshole".
Maybe it's better that Nietzche is dead. Too much thinking!
Nietzche needs Wagner to play behind his pronounments.
He was probably considered a great thinker at the time.
But times have changed.
He had an interesting approach to women. Understood
seduction as well as Andrew Weiner. But then again,
nobodies perfect.
fntime 8 months ago
@fntime gee willickers, how the fuck did you get so clever?
HammarHeart 7 months ago
fntime 7 months ago
what a monotonious reading!
ruzickaw 8 months ago
unconfident*
MegaBEANER1000 9 months ago
@AwokenSpirit Why must you twist others words are you that confident of your own ideas?
MegaBEANER1000 9 months ago
@MegaBEANER1000 Because his/her ideas are weak in foundation.
HybridD91 9 months ago
Does it not seem to anyone else, that it is terribly ironic that Ravi should pull this passage from Zarathustra and use it only to reaffirm Christianity?
Peteromich 10 months ago
@Peteromich I find it hilarious. Ravi is one of the most dishonest and pretentious apologists I've seen. He's up there with dinesh d'souza.
Drgamedood 9 months ago
Next on the list: Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.
derman077 11 months ago
Don't bother. This evangelist (Ravi) is also heard on Chicago's WMBI, the radio station for the Moody Bible Institute.
visvaldisX 11 months ago
Boring reading. Too monotonous.
ruzickaw 11 months ago
An experiment with the Master's poem "Der Freigeist" can be watched here:
watch?v=EGvzr_HBihk
OR search for:
Friedrich Nietzsche - Der Freigeist (Abe's Modern Low Remix)
Hope you like it! Hope he would have liked it...
NoPussyfication 11 months ago
HA! Ravi thinks this is about atheism.
jacobromu 11 months ago
@jacobromu mwa ahhahahahahahah, good one!!!
Immortal4261 11 months ago
F.N was a genius but he never knew God
blopajmbar62 1 year ago
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity03 well its pretty obvious that even if there was one, he is not good, even evil. . Thankfully there is no God, I wouldnt even worship nor choose to beleive even if there was, Their acts are cruel.
2ndBestAllTime 1 year ago
@TheBaneOfAmbiguiity Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!'
jimmymot 1 year ago
@jimmymot This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it's still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything's going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise. I think this may be something we need to be on the watch out for.'
-douglas adams
jimmymot 1 year ago
@TheBaneOfAmbiguiity and, that is why i dont judge you for seeking god, as i sought god, and as every man seeks god, or something to make sense of it all, to hope for. but it reminds me of a story Douglas Adams told of a puddle which I shall subsequent post, and which I feel sums up the necessity for an objective/scientific basis for our philosophical pursuits....
jimmymot 1 year ago
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity33 i guess what i'm saying is that the mistakes the scientific community makes is all in the direction of progress, and the evils science has given us are matched by those of theology. And what has theology really given us but psuedo-science? i dont mean that in an insulting way, but in a literal way: many people believe theology was a kind of primitive science, the human mind trying to understand our world, and our place in it.
jimmymot 1 year ago
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity33 The fact that you see the idea of consciousness reduced to biology as hopeless is very telling. An intellectually honest person should accept the TRUTH first, and worry about its implications after accepting it. Where is the soul if not in the brain? No where we can prove in this life: in reality. The danger in philosophy is that an argument/idea can be logically sound even when its premise is flawed. thats where fact (science) becomes essential.
jimmymot 1 year ago
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity7 You warn me to be wary of modern thinking, the potential "new religion" of science, and its obsession with 100% provable truth. Yet, what is beautiful about scientific thinking is its commitment to truth. Science will never be religion because good skepticism opposes faith. You sound a lot like the post-enlightenment thinkers, who rightfully grew concerned when painful truths begin to emerge. But we understand these things better now, so we cannot simply choose to ignore em
jimmymot 1 year ago
so?
alessandroiscool 1 year ago
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity3 god is not an absolute because there is no proof for him or the supernatural. math is the only thing absolute - it is the only science that is 100% provable, without relying on our own subjective experience. i used to believe in god, and then mysticism, because i craved truth, the ultimate truth. but do you want to risk living a lie to avoid accepting an incomplete truth that stings? you seem invested in truth or i wouldn't bother. but read the god delusion.
jimmymot 1 year ago
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity1.you can't claim to completely understand Nietzsche meaning - even professional philosophers disagree about him, its somewhat of a running joke. however, it is generally accepted that he did not believe in an 'absolute morality' and that is why his ideas were considered nihilistic. but he was certainly not a solipsist, like you're describing, "no meaning". ultimately, morality is unique to humans, as only we can reflect on our intentions. but that does not mean it is divine.
jimmymot 1 year ago
Dear Fundie who posted this video,
"atheistic worldview"
There's no such thing. Atheists are very different individuals with no unifying worldview or philosophy.
"Atheism•a lack of belief in the existence of God or gods" -that is all
Talking about "God is dead and we have killed him" Has nothing to do with atheism. A god would have to be real in order to kill him. Atheists don't hate god, no, that would be stupid, about as sane as hating Santa Claus, another fictional entity.
PyrotechnicAnarchy 1 year ago
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GreekNietzschean 1 year ago
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity The term "Evil" is of no relevance to this discussion, however, as it is applied in Nietzsche's thought the term itself lends it's own to anything that cuts the individual short, cripples his pursuit in life, and basically the entire religion of Christianity he would see as "evil".
viletree 1 year ago
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity Nietzsche despised Hedonism and saw ruinous excess as the demise of the individual as opposed to the edification, as opposed to Christianity which makes a sin out of basic human drives, his philosophy promotes libertarian individualism and throws out and denounces any sort of need for anything worthless such as a divine concept. Your statement is exactly what he was referring too, a man gives himself meaning, and only the herd has need for "god"
viletree 1 year ago
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity No once again you deliberately obfuscate what his intentions were, he had no system or tenets of belief such as Christianity. He saw such things as needless and designed inherently to subjugate man to a system of moral absolutes that in and of themselves are unachievable, whereas "god" he saw was a self defeating ideal, the concept of overman is achieved in any way in which an individual rises above the herd whether by means of the arts or disavowal of the Christ cult.
viletree 1 year ago
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity He succeeded largely, in this secular world religion loses it's grip on a daily basis, not to mention since you have a convoluted view of his philosophy, you would never be able to understand as you are a Christian. The Will to Power was assembled after he died and it's a collection of his musings and notes, his sister put it together and used it for her twisted political fascist leanings, but it's largely his philosophy at it's rawest
viletree 1 year ago
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity Nonsense, it depends on the perspective on which it is read, to me it means solely that after the inevitable declaration of "God is dead" one must inevitably tarry forward on the process of ubermensch. The Christian mumbo jumbo comes as a result of the logical death, the mere Requiem aeternam ad deo for a system of parasitic beliefs that has thrived on humanity. It's not his sigh of sadness in the face of a godless world, it's a declaration of strength
viletree 1 year ago
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity It has nothing to do with being the "slave" of oneself, and everything to do with overcoming oneself. He rightfully understood the fact that any system of belief that denigrates human existence in favor for something otherworldly could only otherwise remove the value of the here and now, this is not "higher living" it's putting one's life on hold for something that is not absolute. He recognized that his philosophy would smash Christian theology
viletree 1 year ago
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity Any system of beliefs that denied reality by any sort of "other world", he would denounce and despise. I suggest you read the Will to Power, as he is clearly against any and all forms of Christianity.
viletree 1 year ago
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity Not only that, but Nietzsche does not advocate to live life miserably. He says this is a product of nihilism created by the modern world, which he once again kritiks. He proposes accepting and embracing all parts of life, in order to overcome them and live life joyously and to the fullest
GreekNietzschean 1 year ago
@TheBaneOfAmbiguity First of all, being a tyrant and being cruel is a product of the slave morality which Nietzsche kritiks. Ex: Hitler who felt a great ressentiment against the Jewish people feeling the need to create violence to topple them. This is the slave morality. Nietzsche's master morality does not justify the killing or dominance of others. Nietzschean philosophers have said " The will to power, is not a will that wants to dominate, surely this would rely on old values such as morality
GreekNietzschean 1 year ago
Since man created god, it follows that he could be god's destruction.
l337pwnage 1 year ago
hey it is the guy that can't recall his own past (the talker)
bjam89 1 year ago
Since those new-atheists, my thoughts about science was pretty much the ones from Cioran. Science arouse from a half-true of a concealed assumption (the so called "first truth"), so science describe instead of explain anything. Nothing but theories. When people talk about "moral values" as some sort of fact/importance or "human rights" as some sort of consensus, it's teared apart the honesty and unbiased legacy.
strattfordcrass 1 year ago
Does anyone know the origin of that Troll Fisherman painting at 2:44? It rocks
3rdEYEsqueegie 1 year ago
Hosses Mosses!
U8ITFOO 1 year ago
Ravi reads this so fast it's almost impossible to follow the drama of Nietzsche's point. It needs to be read much slower.
FERGUSARYAN 1 year ago
He didn't say the world would be any worse for the death of god, which seems to be your insinuation.
If you cared to to read any Nietzsche you'd see that he relished the opportunity to re-evaluate morality in the absence of a Christian 'slave morality'.
Even the content of the speech does not suggest the world will be any worse for its lack of religion - This isn't the damning revelation you seem to think it is.
emphaticapathy 1 year ago
@emphaticapathy He never had the chance though....the truly intelligent always die young..he was a monolith not a man
viletree 1 year ago
@emphaticapathy: He didn't said anything we can be sure about. He wrote and I understand interpretation as a subjective concept, there are no "right" or "wrong" interpretation (except in religion).
2. About moral. Can you give an example of that?
3. Of course not. He wasn't a 'prophet'.
strattfordcrass 1 year ago
The Answer, what we can do to atone, is nothing. That's why he forgives us freely.
TheJoshea72 1 year ago
I don't know what a wold view without god can contain other than happiness.
XzavierKnives 1 year ago
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chipgowest 1 year ago
@XzavierKnives your not happy, look at you trying to prove yourself. what about an eternity of nothingness, never again existing. you would have to love nothing to want that !! dont throw away your passions and your lust for life just because a few ancient religions have relatively sadist gods. nietzsche is about affirming life!!!
chipgowest 1 year ago
@chipgowest I am happy. And atheist. :P
XzavierKnives 1 year ago
@chipgowest I'm not happy about death, but there has never been a shred of evidence for the afterlife (don't give me that psuedoscience bullshit) , and tons against it, so if you want to be delusional, so be it. Truth has nothing to do with happiness, though on a day to day level, I am very happy. Furthermore, don't project yourself onto me in an attempt to tell ME that I'm not happy! Do you know how ignorant and stupid that sounds?
LukeShetler 1 year ago
@LukeShetler im an atheist, btw, and hate christianity; ive seen what telling someone (who probably has no free will) their a born sinner can lead to. nietzsche killed god, for the enhancement of man, because he was proud of humanity; he had too much love to allow a religion of resentment to run un apposed. im taking a dig at atheists, who care not for the betterment of man, the search for moral truth, enhancing mans suffering to creativity and affirmation. (science without philosophy, nihilism)
chipgowest 1 year ago
@chipgowest Science is a method (it has proven that most morals are innate, contrary to nihilism). As a method it is able to show us what general reality is, as opposed to the reality of the individual, who is heavily flawed, emotional, and prone to psychosomatic states. There are millions of Americans who believe they have certain illnesses which have been proven to be non-existant by scientific studies. These people do not care, as they value their personal experience. Science demands more.
LukeShetler 1 year ago
@LukeShetler you are right on. However i do not believe in christ because of the afterlife he talks about. This is a rebuttal to a denial of an acceptecne of God that is totally unfounded. In fact i am agnostic in terms of the afterlife. I believe in christ because he is Truth. I follow him because he is way to a life of Truth in which one can begin to develop a real comprehension of reality. If you disagree with me, you cannot deny the belief that to be good is to be powerful. Nietszche knew
dinokralt4 1 year ago
the face at 2:35 is creepier than the wolves...
joshuadmeans 1 year ago
that wolf picture was really freaky
thuggie1 1 year ago
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SaraGotBack 1 year ago
The parable of an atheist who is being honest with himself... read by an avowed theist who admits that he admires Nietzsche's honesty.
There is something deeply admirable and honest about this.
Whatever else you may say about the clip... This is wisdom.
Falcrist 1 year ago
Love Nietzsche. Like some forgotten truth. His wisdom still speeks to us today. He is the reason I studied philosophy in college.
mmamidget 1 year ago
@ThisLittleBlackBook Hell yeah, my friend. I consider myself an aesthete above anything else. Except I never had a word for it until a couple years ago. I'm always after the aesthetic quality of a thing or idea or piece of music. Especially music.
RednaZela 1 year ago
I wonder? Do any of you understand yet what Neitzche meant by "I come too early,..."?
papadioup8 1 year ago
@papadioup8, I think he meant that his target audience was in the future. His concepts were so advanced that he predicted the future of theism and philosophy in terms of the general public as a whole. Nowadays we see how atheism and agnosticism are growing exponentially, but I think his target audience lies still in a further future, maybe 50 years more...
dunkelblau2006 1 year ago
@dunkelblau2006 Or maybe people follow ideologies even though they do not understand them and those who consider themselves atheists are sheep just as much as those who dont question there own religion are.
XXGDUBSXX 1 year ago
an incredible parable..
viletree 1 year ago
Ravi is citing Nietzsche because he believes he supports his argument, that we need to get morality from God. But we have shown that this is not so - Euthyphro's dilemma shows it, and Sartre later showed it when he points out that in order to get morals from God, we must view God as good according to our own conscience.
Zomnificent 1 year ago
From the atheist perspective, God is not dead. He never existed in the first place. Therefore, we don't need him and never did. He was a magic feather. All this time we've been living without God.
Zomnificent 1 year ago
"But when Zarathustra was alone he spoke thus to his heart:"Could it be possible? This old saint in the forest has not yet heard anything of this, that God is dead!"
ragster2riches 1 year ago
I don't believe Nietzsche was an athiest.. "God is dead," doesn't mean God doesn't exist. It means the Christian God (which drove Europe for over a thousand years and highly influenced the U.S.) had lost relevance in many or most people's lives.
He was a militant agnostic, if anything. Wishing not to speculate on what WE DON'T KNOW. But to live on this earth and make the most of it and forget about afterlifes or other escapes. Treat life and the earth as all there is. (besides outer space)
RednaZela 1 year ago
I don't see the point here.... So, why is Nietzche so bad?
tskasa1 1 year ago
@tskasa1 no real point just flame wars but am i crazy or is this dude an idiot?
alexgillespie1 1 year ago
@alexgillespie1
Sorry, didn't mean to flame.
And yeah it seems he is...then again, I've met many like that.
I wonder if any of these people have actually read Nietzche's beautiful work in full...
tskasa1 1 year ago
it seems that your main point is that no one can define that line between good and evil but my point is that YOU CAN! NOT EVERYTHING IS AS RELATIVE AS YOU SAY IT IS!
BAD THINGS ARE BAD AND GOOD THINGS ARE GOOD
SHOULD WE WAIT FOR GOD TO GIVE US HIS OPINION ON 911 OR THE HOLOCAUST BEFORE WE DECIDE IF THEY'RE GOOD OR BAD? NO THEY'RE BAD AND THAT'S THE TRUTH PEOPLE WHO THINK THEY'RE NOT (NAZIS/TERRORISTS) ARE MISGUIDED HATEFUL PEOPLE AND THEIR OPINIONS ARE NOT TO BE CONSIDERED OR RESPECTED
alexgillespie1 1 year ago
@alexgillespie1 "SHOULD WE WAIT FOR GOD TO GIVE US HIS OPINION ON 911 OR THE HOLOCAUST BEFORE WE DECIDE IF THEY'RE GOOD OR BAD?"
that's summed up quite simply in "love your neighbor as yourself."
baezalejandro 1 year ago
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@baezalejandro
"that's summed up quite simply in "love your neighbor as yourself.""
And summed up pretty nicely as well when God gives his people his command to kill all nonbelievers, and followers of a different faith. As well as his many endorsed genocides and massacres and rapes carried out by his command.
tskasa1 1 year ago
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@alexgillespie1 "THEY'RE NOT (NAZIS/TERRORISTS) ARE MISGUIDED HATEFUL PEOPLE AND THEIR OPINIONS ARE NOT TO BE CONSIDERED OR RESPECTED "
-who says they have to respect yours???
baezalejandro 1 year ago
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@alexgillespie1 don't believe me? try prooving color to a man born blind.
just becuz color is beyond his senses doesn't make it any less real...
same is true of God.
baezalejandro 1 year ago
@alexgillespie1 what is real?
if real is what u can see, taste, hear, touch, smell... then real is simply electronic signals interpreted by your brain.
so who are u to say what a "crazy" man does is any less real or relevant than yours?
maybe your the crazy one with flawed logic?
point is no one has to respect your opinion.
baezalejandro 1 year ago
@alexgillespie1 don't believe me try proving color to a man born blind!!!!
just cuz he lacks the sense of sight doesn't make color any less real.
same is true of God.
if u deny God then something has to take his place. if u deny a soul something has to take it's place. and that ends up being man and the body. Man becomes God; the body becomes the soul and the sole purpose of existence.
and history has proven what men are capable of.
baezalejandro 1 year ago
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@baezalejandro
"just cuz he lacks the sense of sight doesn't make color any less real."
I'm not even going to begin on how flawed this statement is....
"Man becomes God; the body becomes the soul and the sole purpose of existence."
Define the soul.
And also, what is so wrong about man becoming God when man created God? After all, it is man and not God who is responsible for ALL the laws/rules established in EVERY society.
tskasa1 1 year ago
@baezalejandro Fallacious argument. You're "affirming the consequent". Colour is axiomatic. Those who aren't impaired can see it quite clearly. The same can't be said for God. But, if He does manifest then please ask Him for his opinion on the matter, 'cause I'd really like to know.
pander22 1 year ago
@pander22 i think not.
actually it's the very same concept.
we're talking about the Creator of Life, not santa claus.
which is funny becuz the anger at which athiests speak of God they would not speak against the tooth fairy!!
God and eternity is just another state of being. just cuz u don't see it doesn't make it any less real, just like color and just like any of the other senses.
of course u'll never truly know until you're dead.
I'm just saying.. eternity is quite a long time.
baezalejandro 1 year ago
@baezalejandro You simply saying that the so called "Creator of Life" is not like Santa Claus does not make it so. You're providing no evidence to support your claims.
Listen, there's a reason it's called "faith". FAITH: a belief that is not based on proof. If you have faith in God then you can have absolutely no rational argument for your position because there are none.*Please note: I'm not saying there is no God; I'm just saying there's no way to prove it*
pander22 1 year ago
@pander22 i'll provide evidence the day u provide evidence that color is real to a man born blind.
my evidence is morals and conviction.
u don't honestly believe that morality is subjective. if u did u would get all angry and flustered.
if religion is really just balony why do u fight it so much? you're obviously trying to press your morals upon someone else.
which means u do believe that there are absolutes in morality. thus prooving God.
baezalejandro 1 year ago
@baezalejandro Ok I'll go along with the fallacy but riddle me this: Of what use is colour to a blind man?
pander22 1 year ago
@pander22 There is no proof that God exists, but if believing in God makes people act good, not killing each other but helping each other.. what difference does it make if he exists or not???
What use is color to the blind man? Well what use is faith to atheist, The colors are made not for a blind man....
KillThatEmoChild 1 year ago
@KillThatEmoChild What makes you think believing in God makes people do good things? Countless people have been killed in His name.
Also, methinks this feeble analogy has been worn out. I mean, colour is not made for any man, blind or otherwise.
pander22 1 year ago
@pander22 Man has never killed in the name of God, man killed because the book called "Bible", because of institution called "Church" church has nothing to do with God.
Blind man is indifferent to colours, I dont know what are you trying to say here? What do you want to prove?
KillThatEmoChild 1 year ago
@KillThatEmoChild So people kill not in the name of God but the bible?!? If that is indeed true then you're just splitting hairs. Is the bible not the word of God? Is the church not where people go to pray and learn about Him? How else would we even know about God if it weren't for these things?
And I'm not trying to say/prove anything when it comes to the colour/God comparison. As I mentioned in a previous message, it is affirming the consequent. It's a fallacy.
pander22 1 year ago
@pander22 But if you do not believe in god wouldnt that mean the bible couldnt be the word of god but the words of men, wouldnt that mean your argument against the worship of a god would be disolved as you say "I do not believe in god but they kill in the name of their god, they kill for god and not what they have been taught or learned, but as the bible is the word of god then indeed they do kill for their god" can this train of though exists wouldnt you have to believe the men -
XXGDUBSXX 1 year ago
@pander22 either did indeed kill for there god, where as if the bible is the word of the god they follow, then god would indeed exist, or that these men are fools for following the scripture of ancient men who had lied to them for some reason. Or perhaps there is a god but liars had written down scripture though it was not gods will, as if people do indeed have free will then they would have the abilty to lie about each other or about the will of god?
XXGDUBSXX 1 year ago
oh and if you want to prove color to a blind man (if it's his eyes not his brain that doesn't work) give him lsd he should start to hallucinate and "see" colors
and in a completely seperate but twice as intriguing thought, what is a blind mans dream like?
alexgillespie1 1 year ago
@alexgillespie1 my point is that just becuz u can't scientifically proove God doesn't make him anyless real. we're not talking about the toothfairy here, we're talking about the creator of all things.
if u believe there is such a thin as evil then i can proove God to you. if u honestly believe that evil is subjective u must also standby and allow floodgates for any act to be justified. becuz a mans raping of a woman is completely subjective who r u to stop him and tell him his action is "wrong"
baezalejandro 1 year ago
@baezalejandro i didn't say that AT ALL but to your completely random point about evil being real in response to my point that your analogy about blind people and colour is meaningless i do believe that evil is real, it is possible for an act to be wrong in that case it's because the victim is violently raped against their will. theres nothing wrong about him doing it to an innanimate object (besides being weird) because there's no victim.
if you believ in evil i can prove to you there's no god
alexgillespie1 1 year ago
alexgillespie1 1 year ago
@alexgillespie1 ppl often say, "couldn't God simply get rid of evil?"
well the answer to that is he did at one point: the garden. God respects an indivisuals free will so much becuz it's what seperates you from robots, but u can destroy freedom as much by abusing it as u can by taking it away.
when there was perfect harmony in the garden the ONLY command God gave man was to not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. why? becuz man has no right to redefine what is good & what is evil
baezalejandro 1 year ago
@baezalejandro umm... according to the bible he created the garden right after creating existance so he must have created evil too.
and why would god put the tree where people could reach it? why make a fruit that gives you that knowledge? if right and wrong(evil) didn't exist before eve ate the apple(in the evilless garden) how could god expect eve to do the right thing if the wrong thing never existed?
... and where did dinosaur bones come from? did he just bury them to fuck with us?
alexgillespie1 1 year ago
@alexgillespie1 becuz God respects man's INDIVISUALITY; free-will and self awareness, and self-responsiblity is what makes u a human and not a robot.
baezalejandro 1 year ago
@baezalejandro i always thought the difference between a human and a robot was biology but anyways
alexgillespie1 1 year ago
@baezalejandro that was his first mistake...
alexgillespie1 1 year ago
@alexgillespie1 and if u believe in evil i can prove God to u.
if u assume such a thing as evil u must also assume there's such a thing as good. if u assume there is such a thing as good and evil u must assume there is a moral law to differentiate between the 2.
if u assume there is a moral law u must also assume there is a moral law GIVER(God). if u don't the question then self destructs becuz u can't have the latter without the former.
baezalejandro 1 year ago
@baezalejandro umm killing is wrong because it causes pain to the victim and his loved ones. undeniably true. no god involved. you're a complete idiot to think otherwise.
there is a word for that line you call god it's called ethics.
alexgillespie1 1 year ago
@alexgillespie1 umm killing isn't wrong it's a necessity in a world which is survival of the fittest.
what kind of soldier doesn't kill?
baezalejandro 1 year ago
@baezalejandro what about people like the zodiac killer? is his killing necessary?
i was providing a counterexample to your claim that only god can define morality (which is bullshit) so don't try and confuse the argument.
alexgillespie1 1 year ago
@alexgillespie1 even plato said, "an end is desired because it SEEMS good; it does not seem good because it is desired."
and if u know anything pedophiles and ppl into beastiality don't view there sexual preference anymore evil or wrong than homosexuals or heterosexuals.
man has done the exact thing God tried to warn us of... REDEFINE what is "good" and what is "evil".
baezalejandro 1 year ago
@baezalejandro umm there is no god so we're sort of just defining it but as i've shown you twice now and im sure you could find endless examples of people defining right and wrong in better wording than i can without ever mentioning god by using logic.
the bible says slavery is ok... so is it? NO! i could talk to a preschooler and he'd say the same thing 1000/1001 times
GOD DOES NOT HAVE THE FINAL SAY ON MORALITY NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES YOU SAY HE DOES!!!
alexgillespie1 1 year ago
@alexgillespie1 u have a flawed understanding of slavery and the bible. paul even wrote a book on the topic in the new testament calle the letter to Philemon. u should read it some time.
2nd if slavery is a relative idea what do u care if ppl practice it? even if u have a personal problem with it u have no right to tell someone what to think becuz what's bad to u might be good to him.
baezalejandro 1 year ago
@baezalejandro umm lincoln ran a campaign against that very idea because who is anyone to deny another mans freedom
it's not relative slavery is wrong. the only reason someone might percieve slavery as good would be that it gets them easy money however ask the slave and he'll tell a different story, slavery is wrong because it does more evil than good
good=money/stuff
bad=human freedom denied
btw it's pretty ironic that an athiest is explaining to a christian why rape/killing/slavery is wrong
alexgillespie1 1 year ago
@alexgillespie1 "bad=human freedom denied"
what's your definition of human?
human's have always formed themselves in tribes much like apes.
an apes don't give a rats ass what happens to an ape on the other side of the globe. in fact apes often steal babies from different tribes and tear them limb from limb.
so by your logic what hitler did was perfectly fine. he was simply protecting his tribe (the aryan race)!
see how flawed your logic is?
if anything humans are worse cuz we torture.
baezalejandro 1 year ago
@alexgillespie1
"btw it's pretty ironic that an athiest is explaining to a christian why rape/killing/slavery is wrong"
Christians have been the single most efficient rapists, killers, and and slavers of all time. It's not that surprising....
tskasa1 1 year ago
@alexgillespie1 ppl (buddhist usually) ask "why do we have to assume a person (mora law giver)is necessary for a moral law?
becuz the question of evil is always raised BY a person (yourself and other humans) or ABOUT a person (hitler, stalin, john wayne gacy);
so "person-hood" is intrinsic in the anwer.
Christians unlike muslims believe we r God's children and created in his image.
baezalejandro 1 year ago
@baezalejandro so you think that rape and killing are bad not because they are extremely violent acts but because god says they are?
if god said rape was good would it be good?
if there was no god would you be indifferent to rape?
alexgillespie1 1 year ago
@alexgillespie1 i never said they aren't bad. i'm saying why do u care if it's RELATIVE?
when u rebel against EVERYTHING you lose your RIGHT to rebel against ANYTHING.
u'll dismiss a person who does evil as "sick" but who's to say that u aren't the "sick" one with a flawed perspective?
see how u can't have a relative outlook on evil? u can't have both int he same action. just like u can't have a square-circle
baezalejandro 1 year ago
@baezalejandro ask a rational man why he kills someone he might have a motive that makes sense
ask someone who's crazy he might say something like he heard voices or god told him too or maybe he just shot a man in reno just to watch him die
logic
also im a little confused how am i rebelling against everything?
alexgillespie1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@alexgillespie1 "ask a rational man why he kills someone he might have a motive that makes sense
ask someone who's crazy he might say something like he heard voices or god told him too or maybe he just shot a man in reno just to watch him die
logic"
then again what is real? if real is what u can see, taste, touch, smell, hear.. then real is simply electronic signals your brain interprets.
who are u to say what he heard is any less real? maybe you're the one who's wrong?
baezalejandro 1 year ago
Comment removed
baezalejandro 1 year ago
Nietzsche wrote that we should all find out things for ourselves. Though most are content to regurgitate what he said. Instead of challenging ourselves, by finding the spark within our minds and etching our own directions to the next generation of readers and thinkers. Perhaps god is dead or possibly never existed, yet a god or gods could be watching and listening to us, as we ponder all these possibilities. Either way we simply must find our OWN way in this existence.
PhilosophicalViking 1 year ago
Nietzsche became a Christianity hating atheist.
Alpha1Bravo1Charlie1 1 year ago
@giggleman are u supporting stalin and mao?
baezalejandro 1 year ago
Nietzsche was just showing us how selfish the human race is
GeneralHasslehoff 1 year ago
It's interesting how many atheist are not indifferent to the idea of God. :) Why they aren't ? They hate that idea and make that idea stronger. And real. :) Nitzche is right in one thing. Hate is fear. If they want's to kill him they must stop thinking even against him, not only on him !!! But that's not happening. :) Negation of something means that "something exist". To me.
I beleive in reasonable creator, that we are created, but our will are free from every religion, only limited by nature..
grmbtl 1 year ago
Theists always use this story and say, "ooooh, I agree with Nietzsche. Atheism is scary!" Yeah, but uh, it's not like he threw his arms in the air and said, "yep, there's no value there's no meaning, you may as well kill yourself right now." Nietzsche's biggest goal in his philosophy was the attempt to restore earthly meaning and value in life that was perverted by religious faith.
AtheistAltar 1 year ago
@AtheistAltar
You can kill yourself eather, but that's not the point. Getting busy with his thought is suicidefull in long time, if you interpreted it in the way as he think and wrote it.
Value's of life is a only debatable issues...
grmbtl 1 year ago
@grmbtl I interpreted it exactly the way he wrote it. It was critical of people who were atheistic in thought and religious in practice. It wasn't a concession that life no longer has value, because he thought it did--Subjectively.
Theists say, "Nietzsche was right, this is what atheism entails!" But that's a shallow understanding of the idea.
AtheistAltar 1 year ago