Morality And Moral Judgment In The Bible (Part 1/3)

[Socika14]

What year did this episode air?

[JinxOz]

The love of beauty may express itself in a song, in a smile, or in silence; but most of us have no inclination to be silent. We have not the time to observe the birds, the passing clouds, because we are too busy with our pursuits and pleasures. When there is no beauty in our hearts, how can we help the children to be alert and sensitive? We try to be sensitive to beauty while avoiding the ugly; but avoidance of the ugly makes for insensitivity. If we would develop sensitivity in the young......

[sanyo1974]

Christians please do not call this program more

They are breeding hatred and make money with it

do not call and this program fails

[pamew]

"breeding hatred"? How exactly? People who want a debate or to simply ask a question call up, if they behave nicely and don't act like jackasses they get respect, If they start preaching all that hellfire bullshit/get abusive then they get dismissed in return. Any "hatred" you perceive is as much the fault of Christian callers as it is anyone else, so your argument is flawed in its premise. Why are you so set on getting this program removed btw, If you're that sure of your belief just call up.

[JinxOz]

@sanyo1974 Ok sanyo1974 I won't call. I love you. Please send me zenis.

[bttrflykiss7701]

@sanyo1974 Making money? Breeding hatred? How so?

[KakkoiGuy1]

Also where does evolution speak of ethics? I learned evolution in school and ethics was never part of that course at all. It said something came from nothing. I say this...take a pile of dirt and see if it turns into a volcano. Or take some nuts and bolts and wait until they come together and become a tv. It just doesn't happen.

[fuchikomarrano]

@KakkoiGuy1 just to clarify, evolution describes something that happens in nature (Life changes), you are talking to some extent of abiogenesis (no life becoming life) and youre right, it doesnt say anything about ethics because its not supposed to.

[Darthmas2242]

@KakkoiGuy1 How damn ignorant of you sir. You paid very little attention in school if that's what you think Evolution is.

The analogy you give is flawed simply because the objects you list haven't got the potential for evolution. You require 1: reproduction, 2: Genetic Variation and 3: Death.

Morals come from an idea of good and bad. Nothing gave us that except for the basic rule: "Do unto others as you would have done unto you."

[KakkoiGuy1]

One more thing, for people who don't believe in God you guys sure do alot of fighting against something you don't believe. Some experience. If there is no God why do you use your energies to speak against Him and the Bible? More the Bible than any other book. What about the fact that archaeology supports the Bible and they are steadily finding artifacts that it speaks of. How does evolution give you ability or reason if you're just an animal?

[Darthmas2242]

@KakkoiGuy1 We refute Christianity and other religions simply because it is harmful to the society. Religion retards the potential of the 1st world and prevents the others advancing. This is why we fight religion.

Your Bible is not historically accurate. Jesus was born at two different times according to the bible. Try Reading it, you'll see.

As for archaeological finds, none such finds have been found to support the Bible. Period.

[saintpine]

@KakkoiGuy1 says "for people who don't believe in God you guys sure do alot of fighting against something you don't believe"

if religious people lived their religion in private without bulling everyone, and stuffing their nonsense all over the place, I doubt you would find an atheist against it.

[Stimchi]

@saintpine I second that

[Canny911]

@saintpine Son of a bitch. I'm two months late. It appears my help isn't needed, as you and a few others, have already destroyed an idiotic Christian. Next time PM me or something so I can join in. I may not even need to say anything, but witnessing it transpire as it goes down is so much fun.

[saintpine]

@Canny911 says "Son of a bitch. I'm two months late...."

Hi brother, hows mom

Fuck you, you go on holiday for 2 months and leave the others to do all the dirty work.

[JinxOz]

@saintpine Hey man want to chill sometime? I got cake. 

[KakkoiGuy1]

No such thing as an atheist. ;) Just thought I'd throw that up there. And if you're an evolutionist there is not right or wrong in evolution. Actually Hitler also was an evolutionist and you see what he did. Evolution actually has nothing to do with morals and it says that only the strong servive. So based off evolution, I can slay you if you're weaker than me and that's ok because you're weaker and I'm stronger.

[Darthmas2242]

@KakkoiGuy1 And my last refutation to your bs...

Hitler was not an Atheist. At all. He was a Roman catholic. Read Mein Kampf, it has all the evidence you need.

Atheism and Evolution are not intrinsically linked. You can be an Atheist and deny evolution while you can be a theist and accept it.

Indeed you could slay me if you wanted. But the Society would make you pay for it. This is what REALLY stops murders: Punishment in the Present.

[Thunderhead889]

@Darthmas2242 --if Hitler was a roman catholic why did he persecute the church?

[Darthmas2242]

@Thunderhead889 Hitler did not prosecute the church. He changed the church in order to gain an even fuller grip on their minds. You see, his goal was to control his people absolutely. How do you do that? By using a mechanism used to control the people for centuries: Religion.

[saintpine]

@Thunderhead889 He persecuted anyone that threatoned his power, and the catholic and protestant churches had an immense power over the minds of the people,

For everyone, the church came first, and after many other priorities they would consider the government.

Governments change, some get voted, others get thrown out, but the church is always there as a strong reference.

Any despotic leader would have to come to terms or destroy this power.

[saintpine]

@KakkoiGuy1 says "Actually Hitler also was an evolutionist and you see what he did. Evolution actually has nothing to do with morals and it says that only the strong servive. "

To think that evolution is a philosophy of life that can be a option to religion is an insult to your religion.

Evolution has nothing to offer, it is only an explanation to a many scientific facts.

The fact that I believe in the theory of gravity, doesn't in anyway influence any values I might have.

[TheReasonWhyGuy]

that intro song, I can't find that cover version @_@

The only version I can find is, the original POS version... : /

If someone can help me, I've been searching for over an hour now :(

[strikenetter]

I thought so, if you are equipped with all the knowledge and understanding of a subject, why read the manual to learn the same knowledge ?

[strikenetter]

LOL, if god created us with morals, why have morals listed in the bible ? Wouldn't that be moot ?

[NathanWubs]

Hey, that is good argument.

[AQGOAT24]

@strikenetter Who wrote the Bible? Humans did.

[Atrofia2]

@AQGOAT24 not only humans, anonimous humans mostly, so who knows what BS they wrote there

[P0weredByPie]

@strikenetter - It's like signs in washrooms "EMPLOYEES MUST WASH HANDS"... everyone knows we should, not all do, so we just need a reminder I guess?

[strikenetter]

@P0weredByPie Why would you need a reminder for something directly implanted into you similar to a computer chip? Does a computer need a reminder? lol

[P0weredByPie]

@strikenetter Not sure what you mean-- if you're thinking about tefillin, that's not implanted....

[strikenetter]

@P0weredByPie Some believe god directly implanted an absolute morality into us. So why need a list of morals in a handbook if they are engraved into us already? Its similar to a computer, the information is implanted into its memory so it needs no handbook. Its an analogy, sorta! lol

[kobidobidog]

@strikenetter God is seeking us in more ways than you can imagine. Ether we are receptive or we are not. It is our choice to hear his pleading to let him in or not. It will take a lot to refuse his pleadings for us to love all as one doing to others what we would want to be done to us. Doing that saves the soul. At that point whoever has the law of God in their inward parts. That is why Jesus says to feed his sheep because God wants humans to be aware of who they believe in on a conscious level.

[kobidobidog]

1:53,That meek human who said you are moral is moral too edifying his neighbor loving all as himself judging himself,.2:27, you are Right morals have nothing to do with religion because religion is only a form of godless with rituals, chanting, music with no one learning any loving truth at all with no instruction in godliness. Not in the jeans or your slacks ether. All good comes from an outside source that made the life we kill. Humans cover themselves with it out of guilt because we fell.

[kobidobidog]

For the young to prevent ,and help that Chronic pain ,upcspine ,and find a U,C,S, only, x rays and a scientific way to tell if another adjustment to the atlas is needed or not.

[polopowers1]

Standards of law created for a moral society and autonomous goodness are not the ideal .Nor the end in itself by which man should govern his life.Morality is subjective and imposed upon like in Sophie's choice one for the gas chamber one for herself.Morality is a problem because man's appetites change and so does law to keep up with man's passions.Therefore he who lives by morals is never entirely free.Regardless of how liberal you are, someone will transgress even your standard for morality.

[sheppaul]

everybody knows in grown toe nails breed socialpaths

[VanGoghsEar1890]

Yeah,I don't know why everyone is blaming Bush for the Iraq war.Jesus told him to start it.

[Findulidas]

The bible could easily be used in order to wage war against unbelievers and heretics if that is your point. If its some kind of sarcasm then its pretty lame.

[VanGoghsEar1890]

Excuse me. Wage war against heretics and unbelievers. It's most often against other religious sects. Bush told the world jesus told him to bomb Iraq. That's a fact, and your point is what's lame.

[4me2cclearly]

Religion is a negative attribute for it offers new bigotry and indifference which would not exist if it were not for religion. Both sides have bad people but religion opens you up to a whole new range of intolerance. The fact that it is a group of people claiming the moral high ground and disregarding the views and opinions of others simply because they differ from there own..

[Hathman60]

Isnt that a human attribute? If you believe in something different from someone else then you disregard it because it differs from your views and opinions. This argument is a really hollow one because this is the same for all people, not only people who have a religion.

[4me2cclearly]

When people have a difference of opinion, then both sides should be looked at from a rational view point. If one claims faith without evidence, that is fine. Agree to disagree.

But when one side claims to have proof, or evidence then it should be put of for review to see how if stacks up to facts. The person that makes the better argument based on the facts holds solid ground. It is up to each person to make there own divisions based on the evidence provided.

[Beskargam]

You realize that you could replace the word "religion" in your comment with the word "morality", right? I'm not saying that religion is not necessarily bad, but the points you used don't really pin it down as such. I actually haven't seen any convincing evidence that religion on its own promotes bigotry.

[4me2cclearly]

All morals are situational, there areno absolutes. Slavery was once considered not to be immoral, now it is. The reason being the social situation has changed. There are dozens of examples in the Old Testament of things that were considered morally correct, that any right thinking person, religious or not, would consider abhorrent today.

[Beskargam]

You seem to be referring to subjective morality, not situational morality. They are closely linked of course, but they're not always the same thing. My point was that classifying anything as bad or good will inevitably create intolerance, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. Did you have any evidence for religion promoting bigotry?

[4me2cclearly]

Imagine you believed something for what seems like a good reason... And then someone comes along, hears your story and says "Why do you believe this?" or "Sorry, but I just don't see how anyone could believe this"

This is actually common not just for religious beliefs - conspiracy theories, interests, and even something as basic as education on fundamentals of Science can all get into such scenarios. But Faith is especially volatile due to being so important to believers.

[Forserean]

Men At Work do the opening song A LOT better, in my opinion.

[giliellthesecond]

When you have a small child you can see what she's talking about. At about a year old my daughter started to give her soft toys drinks and food, now I have to comfort them as well if they fall down or she comforts them herself.

[TheBlackDragon777]

Actually it isn't about religion, you are correct on that Jennifer; however, it is because of God. It's because He made us in His image and breathed the breath of life into us: Genesis chapter 1.

Also, it's because of relationships. Morals don't come from our parents all the time. I grew up in a non0christian home where my parents drank and got addicted to drugs. I have never used drugs, other than medication, nor have I ever abused alcohol. I have drank..in moderation!

[Key2daUnderground]

Morality did not come from God. If anyone actually sits down and read the books of the god they worship the bible) you'd realize that there are non stop immorality on the part of God. Christians twist & tweek their religions and redefine the meanings in order to protect your beliefs, but that alone shows how unstable the Bible is. There is murder, rape, slavery not against God but on behalf of it. There's no God, its just something made up in order to help people cope...

[Theronguardaaah]

You got anything to say to that lol.

[Baldurpet]

If Christians only use the Bible for their morals, I would hate them all.

God is an infanticide and a genocide. That's worse than Hitler!

[Findulidas]

To be fair I think Hitler wouldve killed jew babies before they were born if he could have. God doesnt have to be worse than Hitler to be an ass though.

[Baldurpet]

Well God had the will to kill babies and children- and the power.

Killing small children is not cool God

[Theronguardaaah]

God made the babies for the sole purpose of killing them... its evident in the bible.

[genius1140]

Reactive attachment disorder... absolutely fascinating

[TRICAMET]

my thoughts exactly

[pyrix]

lol, all theists have disorders of the mind.

[Middy187]

Morality plays no part in the bible, as far as I can tell.

[Theronguardaaah]

JOHN 3:16!

What a joke.

[kokobaboko]

Unless the bible is a study in how to be completely immoral or what not to do.

[marcsimac]

Questions to all CHRISTian tubers, and i'm speaking to the true 1z that tremble @ (every) "WORD" of "GOD". Would u try and reason with an infant? How about a drunk or a crack addict in the meat of their high? Then why are u "casting your pearls b4 swine"? Why r u reasoning with people whom "GOD" has blinded and whose ears "HE" has shut? 1's whom "HE" has sent "strong" delusion? 1's whom "HE" hates and is angry with everyday? There delusion and strength will wax more great (DAN 8:12) and they

[marcsimac]

they will gain victory over "GODS" Anointed (REV 11:7 & 13:7). But when the seals are opened in REV 6 then will they cry REV 6:15-17. But do ye well to banter with them? Know ye not how that even in the apex of their pain and torment, they (still) won't give glory to "GOD" nor repent of their evil (REV 16:9-11 & :19-21)? How can u prove Faith? we must walk as did The "LORD". Tell them how it is...warn them to repent and move on. their on their way to a horrible date with the "KING" of kings.

[Katalyzt]

oooookaaaay...

[1n354a]

so quoting poorly translated scribblings of 2,000 year old Bronze age sheep farmers is supposed to convince us of something?

[marcsimac]

No. The light and understanding of "GODS" "WORD" is for those "HE" has chosen. my wish is that you and those you know and love are of that select group, that "HE" has (made) select, which was from no (work) of our own. Think of it this way. If the president or any dignitary was having a party or wedding.., he wouldn't pick anyone. Well, its even more so for the "KING" and "CREATOR" of the universe and all that is therein

[1n354a]

Does the same thing apply to the people who created god?

[marcsimac]

I know this is beyond your senses and flesh. I could not to this point if it were not for "HIS" "HOLY SPIRIT". 1 has to be chosen to be (privileged) to go into such dark sayings. my words are foolishness to you because you have (not) "HIS" "SPIRIT" in you. That i have spoken afore remains. REPENT!! FOR THE KINGDOM OF "GOD" IS @ HAND!!

[1n354a]

Is "The Kingdom of God" a squeal to "The Kingdom of Heaven"?

If so I hope they did a better job on part two - the first one was not an example of great film work.

[marcsimac]

Actually this will be the grand finale. And this "WRITER", "PRODUCER" and "STAR" WILL bring the most Spectacular ending you have ever seen. And guess what? you're going to have a part in it. The exact role you will play is not presently known but you (will) be in it.

[1n354a]

Riiight....yeah thanks for the offer, but I'm not much of an actor and even if I were I'm not big on fantasy/scifi movies.

[marcsimac]

...wasn't an offer. I have (not) the authority. you're already included and you're already rehearsing. your debut will be the next time you open your eyes after you close them for the last time when you breathe your last. @ that time you will know you're much more than a result from an (accidental) explosion.

[1n354a]

an accidental explosion? I was actually the result of my father and mother reproducing.

Do you think that you were the result of an (accidental) explosion?

That's odd.

[marcsimac]

My mistake. How do you think the 1st living beings came to life? Particularly humans... the (1st) ones

[1n354a]

That's easy - what you refer to as modern day humans evolved to become what we are today. Evolutionary theory does a good job explaining how this took place.

As for the origins of life, I'm sure that anybody is 100% sure, though there is quite a bit of research studying the process of abiogenesis and I'm sure that if I kept up to date on it I could answer your question better. Unfortunately I don't have that time.

[marcsimac]

Let me try it another way. I believe all (living) beings and things were (Created) by "GOD". (How) do you believe all living beings and things came to be?

your easy answer wasn't easy or clear. HOW DID THE VERY (1ST) LIVING THING OR BEING COME INTO EXISTENCE?

[1n354a]

The answer to this question is (NOBODY KNOWS FOR CERTAIN)...however research in the field of abiogenesis has produced several hypothesis that appear promising, among which the RNA world hypothesis is one.

Once life was on the planet, however, evolution took over and many millions of years later humans emerge.

I don't know how to make it any easier or clearer...should use more (brackets)? CAPITALIZE MORE WORDS? Let me know.

[marcsimac]

abiogenesis-spontaneous generation. hmmm. Sounds a lot like accigenesis geneplosion to me but I digress. Give ear. Please. Can you examine a car or computor and say that something so intricate....evolved? And as such. Can you look @ the complexity of the human and say such with conviction? sir. Have you ever read The "BIBLE"? Would you leave your date with DIVINE DESTINY to (man-made) hypothesis? Isn't @ least worth your eternity to investigate? If man made god, who made hypothesis?

[1n354a]

Abiogenesis and Spontaneous generation are different things, though I do appreciate you pulling from the Crintelligent Designism line of jokes, but I digress.

I would recommend getting an 8th grade science book and educating yourself a little. Limiting yourself to 2,000 year old scribblings of sheep farmers is not necessarily the way to go.

Oh yeah, ID is dead and gone long ago...debunked many times over, but I do appreciate the effort.

[marcsimac]

Ahh. The response of one without clear cut answers to questions of prevalence. As I digressed you regressed to the 8th grade. However, this is a more mature conversation. My request is that we might stay out of the 8th grade. 1nce again. Can you answer, please, the questions in my previous reply w/o regressing or digressing? Please? I mean no harm. Just make it solid especially since you don't fancy the ethereal.

[1n354a]

Yes I have read the bible, hence my position on the christian faith. The idea of eternal life or damnation is a silly idea used to goat people into controllable behavior. The only divine destiny I will face is when my body is done digesting the chili I had for lunch. Man did make god(s), as well as the all the messages those gods have passed our way. As for the car/computer question, I repeat that ID has been debunked years ago so I see no point in addressing it.

[marcsimac]

Perhaps my question should have been did you (comprehend) the CONTENTS but that answer is obvious. And (what) proof do you have it is a silly idea used to goat? Camst it from the same ones that created theories and left you confused about the origin of life?

[1n354a]

One of these ones- okay let's end this with the understanding that I believe in your imaginary friend as much as you understand 8th grade science.

[marcsimac]

GOT IT. I say it again. REPENT!! FOR THE KINGDOM OF "GOD" IS @ HAND!!

[1n354a]

LOL okay chief.

Fat, dumb and stupid is no way to go through life.

[marcsimac]

Now you see. Just because you have not yet been given the Ethereal Wisdom about life, doesn't make you fat, dumb and stupid. I never said that. I don't talk like that to another human being that has been made in the image of "GOD". There is (no) need to beat yourself up. you're different tho. Most of your atheist brothers aim their fearful frustrations and responses @ me. you did it to yourself...hmm. All of us have our areas of knowledge and ignorance. Noone is above the other.

[1n354a]

The Ethereal Wisdom being the lack of mental capabilities necessary to recognize mindles religious jibber-jabber? Of that I am very happy. You were apparently heavily gifted with it.

As for the "noone is above the other", I agree in general - though judging by your comments, there are varying degrees of intelligence. But I guess you make up for it in different ways...

[marcsimac]

And we'll end with that. Good bye.

[Theronguardaaah]

The bible is immoral wrong and evil it makes Satan seem like the theological good guy.

In no way can you objectively assert that the bible is good as much as it is inspired of evil and lies that are backed by evil.

[1n354a]

...and as for staying out of the 8th grade, I would seriously suggest brushing off those science books. Not being mean, just a suggestion.

[adolthitler]

Computers and cars did evolve and continue to do so.

Do you think the design of past cars is equal to the design of todays cars?

Same for computers.

Have you ever loked at the design of your eye and see that it is seriously flawed? it is not a perfect design, it is not a good design.

All life shows signs of evolving, from the genes and how they are shared among life.

Man made god and hypotheses and only hypotheses is worthy of worship.

Read 1 Samuel 15:3 and realise that god is dead.

[marcsimac]

Did you consider this message before you wrote it?

Seriously. Please. Read it again...objectively, and judge it honestly. you'll see you shouldn't have written it.

[adolthitler]

I see no reason not to write it.

Spell it out, if you can spell.

[kokobaboko]

Computers and cars DO NOT evolve. Evolution requires the ability to reproduce. In case you didn't know this, cars and computers are inanimate objects designed and built by man.

[adolthitler]

They do evolve engineers don't just photocopy plans they evolve the next design based on what has gone before.

[kokobaboko]

No they don't, idiot.

[Theronguardaaah]

oh nono

[NovaHorizon]

@adolthitler computers and cars didn't evolve. Even though you only meant it as an analogy, it still bothers me.. lol They are built. Each one is not built by it's on predecessors, they are built by a third party, and the design is improved by the third party.

[adolthitler]

@NovaHorizon It does not matter that they are built. They do evolve. All car manufacturers build a variety of models that never see mass production. They try different parts strung together to come up with a large variety of internals and they work on multiple exteriors too. Then they pick the one they feel works best.

Variety, selection, and production = evolution. It does not have to be biological.

Bacteria share genes just like we splice car designs to get production models.

Be uneasy.

[sanyo1974]

@adolthitler or Abort Hittler evolution was not by "selection" but by integration

read and evolve yourself

[destronia123]

Why is this show PG? Are christian parents afraid it will de-program their kids?

[CENSOREDFORSEX]

Well I have heard them say a few suggestive things, nothing to bad but enough for a PG

[Rahab111222]

I'm not sure how the state distributing equal amount of wealth among the people has anything to do with a response to theistic claims.

The reason the soviet union was that way, was because Stalin was an athoritarian ass.

[Rahab111222]

"Atheistic morality."

There is no such thing as 'atheistic morality', douche.

"But here in the east have experienced communism"

Communism is a political and monetary system, and has no bearing on the non-belief of a supernatural diety.

"Faith in something is based of morality"

Faith is belief without justification, belief without due evidence.

This isn't the middle ages anymore, kid 2+2=4. Get with the times.

[Beskargam]

"Faith is belief without justification, belief without due evidence."

No, that's blind faith. Faith is belief based on some sort of evidence.

[Rahab111222]

Noun:

Faith

faith (plural faiths)

Mental acceptance of and confidence in a claim as truth without proof supporting the claim.

Owned.

[Beskargam]

That is the religious definition.

Faith is also what you would call my belief that the pilot of an airplane that I get into knows how to land the plane. Do I know for certain that he can? No. But I have faith in the desire of airline companies to keep customers alive and thus keep making money, therefore I have faith in the pilot's skills.

[Rahab111222]

"That is the religious definition."

Not really, I used a regular dictionary that gives out regular definitions that everyone can comprehend... not a religious one that gives out religious definitions.

"Faith is also what you would call my belief that the pilot of an airplane that I get into knows.."

Okay, well good job on making up your own definition that's completely deviant from the actual dictionary term.

While you're at it, try thinking of a different meaning for the word 'cat'.

[Beskargam]

Then what word should I use in the sentence

"But I have faith in the desire of airline companies to keep customers alive and thus keep making money, therefore I have faith in the pilot's skills."

in place of the word "faith"?

[Rahab111222]

I would say 'I trust in the reliability, experience, intense training and skills of the pilot to make sure I have a safe flight.'

Keep in mind, trust is not the same as faith.

Make sure you consult a dictionary before pulling made up definitions out of your ass.

[Beskargam]

But in this case, my faith (or trust) is stemming from my assumption that the airline company's desire to turn a profit is enough to ensure that the pilot is able to do his job. In that case, trust and faith would seem to have a rather blurred line. Oh well, words are what we make of them.

[kokobaboko]

"Belief" is the word you are looking for Nimrod. You believe the airline wants it's passengers to live so they can buy another ticket. That isn't faith, faith is blind belief.

[Beskargam]

Semantics, friend. I have faith in, for instance, the idea that if my friend says he will meet me at the local bookstore to hang out, he will be there. The two words are largely interchangeable in many situations.

"faith is blind belief."

If faith is blind belief, then what is blind faith?

[kokobaboko]

No they're not idiot. You have evidence that your friend will meet you. You believe he will be there because of the evidence of what he said and how he has behaved in the past about what he says. You can't rewrite the language to fit your delusional world view.

[Beskargam]

Oh? Suppose my friend has a rather spotty record when it comes to being where and when he says he will. What then?

"You can't rewrite the language to fit your delusional world view."

Much like how you can't rewrite a word to only deal in religious nonsense. Were you going to answer my question about blind faith, or are you unable? Also, what exactly is my world view?

[kokobaboko]

Look idiot, faith has already been defined for you. You are misusing it. Tacking on "blind" to "faith" is redundant.

Your world view is that you are correct no matter what evidence proves you to be wrong. Be sure to take your meds, sounds like you need them.

[Beskargam]

"Your world view is that you are correct no matter what evidence proves you to be wrong. "

Projecting much? Faith can be used to indicate utter trust in a person. It can also be used in the sense of "keeping faith" with a person, ideology, or organization, meaning maintaining loyalty. Just because you believe that one of its definition is the only correct one will not make it so.

[kokobaboko]

Keep doing your mental gymnastics.

Then try and grasp something called context, jerk off. Then come back to me after you have contributed more to the world than the loads you have shot into a gray gym sock.

[Beskargam]

And in the context I presented, faith and belief were interchangeable. I know this is hard for you to do, but take a step back and reread the comment of mine that you initially replied to and then decide if, in context, the term faith doesn't work (keeping in mind that it's being applied to the principle that a company that offers a service wants to continue to remain profitable).

[kokobaboko]

It doesn't, because the definition the adults were talking about was one with the absence of evidence. Go play with your peers from the short bus, jag off. You've bored me to no end.

[Beskargam]

Yeah, evidence. As in "tangible or verifiable". The example I presented didn't contain any, which was what made it faith. I'm not surprised you're bored, thinking seems to be incredibly taxing for people that commonly resort to well, elementary school playground insults.

[kokobaboko]

Tangible, as in common business practice or common sense which you lack. Verifiable, as in look into business school text books. I'm bored because you are a low grade moron and a troll. You are a jerk off because ALL of your trolling posts amount to little more than public masturbation.

[4me2cclearly]

Though political and religious topics tend to get quickly heated (and I am certainly not exempt from that), the goal should be productive dialogue. Some semblance of courtesy, rare and difficult though it might be to convey online, should be maintained.

[kokobaboko]

The way I see it, the time for platitudes are over. You wouldn't sit down with Hitler after the Holocaust and have tea and play nice nice. Religion is responsible for a thousand times more suffering than Adolph could have dreamed of on his own. Forgive me being passionate, but really it is a sickening practice to enable the ill in perpetuating the dysfunctional grasp on humanity they have enjoyed far too long. I will not placate those I see as the enemy to humanity's future.

[Beskargam]

"I will not placate those I see as the enemy to humanity's future."

Funny you bring up Hitler, cuz he wouldn't either.

Religion is not what you should be blaming, rather, it is the hunger for power that people use religion to justify that you should be blaming. Remove religion and they'll just find another tool.

[kokobaboko]

What a douche. Religion weakens minds to a point that the masses are ready made automatons for despots. Nice that you try to equate me with Hitler in a not-so-subtle and slippery way. Sounds like a typical fundie tactic.

[Beskargam]

Yeah, we fundamentalist agnostics are known for our slippery ways. But frankly, the ideal you expressed is exactly the same as many people that most of the world regards as crazy. Namely: Those that disagree with me are a detriment to humanity. Funny, a lot of fundamentalists actually say nearly the exact same thing. Religion may certainly weaken the mind, but if that's the case, and you lack religion, then what's your excuse for saying things so similar to, well, a religious extremist?

[kokobaboko]

Asshole why are you even speaking to me anymore? Didn't you learn your lesson last month? You're an idiot, as I clearly demonstrated back then. My "extremist" views are backed by the facts, you fucking condescending prick. I am not going to debate with somebody who is clearly too stupid and intellectually dishonest as you. So fuck off.

[Beskargam]

Last month? Last month I had a stimulating discussion with an individual wherein we both presented our separate views and, even though we did not end in agreement, I believe we both came away from it with a better understanding of the other's view. The month before that though, I had a discussion with someone who was a depressing example of one those people who projects what they think of themselves onto others. As far as intellectual honesty goes, you're the one who opened with the Hitler card.

[Beskargam]

Oh, and as far as being backed up by the facts, let's try to remember that you claimed religion (a concept, something incapable of thought, action, or anything else) was responsible for deaths. That's about as intellectually honest as blaming guns for killing people, rather than the people who fire them (course, nobody compares guns to Hitler). You bring up debate, but you're clearly unprepared since you obviously didn't read any past "cuz he wouldn't either.", in my first response.

[kokobaboko]

You are absurd and obtuse.

[Beskargam]

What of what I just said indicated absurdity or obtuseness? Was it absurd to point out that blaming religion for death is as ridiculous as blaming missiles for war? As far as being obtuse goes, well, that's about as meaningful as "you're a big doo-doo head". But then, I'm not really all that surprised that you resorted to insults, given your unwillingness to actually address what I say.

[kokobaboko]

Everything that issues forth from you is absurd. For example trying to compare physical objects and their use to ideologies. There is no need to address you or what you think. It is clear that you are beneath me. So don't bother, because I can't be bothered with you any more, child.

[Beskargam]

So, comparing two different things that are both easy for men to wield to accomplish their ends but are incapable of action on their own is absurd? Well, to each his own, I suppose. Frankly, if you believed that there was no need to address me, I doubt you'd have responded in the first place. Good to see you dropping to your standby of pointlessly demeaning terminology when you've run out (quickly) of anything of actual merit to say. It's been a pleasure, my fundamentalist friend.

[kokobaboko]

Keep blathering, idiot.

[Beskargam]

You know what's most amusing to me? You blamed religion for death, which is more or less analogous to blaming politics for death. But politics is not what causes people to die, not even in war, it is simply the men who use it. Do you perhaps see religion as a tool whose only purpose is to promote suffering? That's about the only reason I can see to explain your clearly emotionally driven and reactionary comments.

[TheHabbadasher]

I think it's safe to say that a number of people have been killed because of religious dogma. Just think of the inquisition and a number of things going on in certain places in the middle east today. Also blaming politics and blaming religious beliefs isn't quite the same thing. Whilst you cannot blame politics for wars etcetera you can blame specific political ideologies. And in much the same way you can sometimes correctly blame religious beliefs for diverse atrocities.

[Beskargam]

That's my point though: you can hold individual political ideologies partially responsible (though no ideology can -make- someone do anything), but the religious analog to that would be individual religions or sects. The person I've been discussing this with initially blamed religion as a whole for these killings, which is at best, irrational.

[TheHabbadasher]

Be that as it may I must disagree with the idea that an ideology cannot make people do anything. People do act based on what they believe, on the oppinions and prejudices they hold. Without those beliefs and prejudices it is extremely likely that they would never have taken certain actions and indeed would never have considered certain actions.

[Beskargam]

Certainly, our beliefs and values can motivate us to do things, but they cannot force us to do things. For instance, I love my parents very much, but suppose some man is holding a gun to their heads and I kill him. I'm not going to claim that my love of my parents made me choose the course of action I committed, because I still made the choice. That's one of the reasons I dislike ideology being blamed for things: it's an excuse, another way of saying "he wouldn't have done it if..."

[TheHabbadasher]

I already agreed with the idea that they could not force us to do things. And I agree that in the end we must take responsibility for our own actions. However to ignore the influence those beliefs had on the event is also rather irresponsible and thus we are justified in saying that certain beliefs were complicit. Mind you from looking over our previous discussion we might just have agreed on this point already.

[Beskargam]

Yep, we did. Religions (or sects of them) that automatically encourage evil actions are just as negatively responsible as political ideologies that do the same.

[TheHabbadasher]

No point in arguing about that then. To take up another point I don't quite think the idea of comparing religion to politics in the manner you did is correct. Rather I believe it's comparable to political ideology. I think socialism is an excellent analogy for how I think of religion. The beliefs and oppinions of Socialism are to begin with quite harmless however the further you take them the more harmfull they become. (to be continued)

[TheHabbadasher]

The primary reason for comparing religion to political ideology rather than politics in general though is the fact that religion is a word which refers to beliefs and oppinions concerning certain things whilst the word politics refers more to a process.

[Beskargam]

That's mostly what I meant by "politics". Politics as a subject is too broad to be useful as a comparison, but it contains rules and strictures within it to govern what the many branches are identified as, so I went with comparing that to religion. Once you get down to individual religions though, political ideology is much better for comparison.

[4me2cclearly]

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin

[Beskargam]

Ah, quotes: as useless as they are ubiquitous. Delusion is the absence of reason, faith is just guesswork.

[4me2cclearly]

When it comes to religion and there use of the word faith, I have found but one meaning to it, for them. When asked for proof of any of the ridiculous claims made by them, they always claim there faith as there proof. So, believing is something as absurd as a sadistic god, with no evidence to substantiate there belief, is a delusional as it gets.

[Beskargam]

Perhaps our differences here are simply based in definition then. To me, delusion is believing something despite tangible evidence contrary to the belief and little or no evidence to support the delusion. Faith, on the other hand, lacks both. I have met some religious people that believe as you depicted (though few of them would cite faith as proof, they usually have some other thing), but I have also met ones that view faith as the presence of doubt, not the absence of it.

[4me2cclearly]

Here is another useless and ubiquitous quote for you:)

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan

[muzeus]

Religion.

[Beskargam]

No, religion is simply a structure built around faith. It does not require any more or less knowledge than any other type of faith.

[muzeus]

I think you said it perfectly. Thank you.

[hockeypuckmtdew]

No offense to the lady on the show, I hadn't picked up her name at the beginnings of the shows I had watched, but it gets annoying when she constantly refers to example of parenting and children, perhaps she could free such biological bias!