@Adizero7000 She did sing too loudly, and she was just a bit too plain looking when you put her side by side with Vanessa. She was an awesome contestant, but first runner up was the perfect spot for her ... Vanessa clearly outshone everyone the entire week. It was sort of a foregone conclusion on Saturday afternoon leading up to the final night of competition that it was Vanessa's to lose. i'm happy Suzette was able to take over for Vanessa after she stepped down.
@Adizero7000 No ... she took over for Vanessa Williams after she resigned. Suzette only served for a month or two before she crowned the next year's winner.
My co-worker was a musician for the Miss America Pageant. He said the judges believed Vanessa was sexier and had more star quality!!! He also said it was so very close that they could have tossed a coin to pick the winner. LOL
Here's what Suzette said in article for Santa Fe, NM newspaper: Question: "How did Miss Charles feel when Miss Williams won the title and she was named first runner-up?" Answer: "I was devastated, she says. "I wanted to win so badly. I've wanted to win since I was 7! AND IT WAS SO CLOSE. LATER I FOUND OUT I LOST TO VANESSA BY ONE POINT!"
@VTMCompany I worked with the Miss NJ pageant for years. The "one point loss" was a rumor for years. I highly doubt that was a case. Back then the final ballot each judge ranked the top 5 in order of preference. First place got 10 points, second place 5 points, third place 3 points, fourth 2 points and fifth 1 point. So there is no way it would have been a 1 point difference if NJ and NY toggled between first and second place on ballots.
@SeanL71Interesting. Then how can MAO explain the tie that had to be broken at the 88 pageant/ i think it was between Marlies Ricardos and Lori Lee Kelly for 2nd and 3rd runner up. Also, there was in tie of I think maybe 3rd runner up the year Pam Eldred won. It made Miss Ohio 2nd runner up instead of 1st. How can it be then that there were ties then?
Nice performance but she did loose a bit of control when pushing her voice. Also she should have pulled the mic away during loud passages of the song. Vanessa Williams had the better performance.
@Adizero7000 No, she didn't win Miss America the year after. Vanessa Williams had her crown taken away 11 months afterwards. Suzette got to serve as Miss America for one month because she was the runner up.
God, I love this. Chills on top of chills. This, for me, is the quintessential 'Miss America' vocal talent performance. It really just doesn't get any better than this ('non-classically' speaking, and -- maybe -- at all). What a fantastic contestant Suzette Charles was. Wish somebody would upload the Swimsuit competition from that year (now that we have Evening Gown).
@VTMCompany As much as we all love Vanessa Williams (much lovelier + more talented now than then, IMO), I do agree. It's interesting, because we've all heard anecdotes re: the personalities of these two women (frankly, I don't care about such issues). M A was, especially then, a figurehead -- and I don't really care what she's like behind the scenes, I just want her to be beautiful and talented. For me, on that night, that person was Suzette Charles. And that's my honest, objective opinion.
@thesinger. I agree with you. My daughter was in a pageant over this weekend and that's what I told her. If she wants to win pageants, she is going to have to be middle of the road. She said, "momma, I'm not gonna do that." Here in America, you have to or you aren't gonna get nothin'. You have to know how to play the game in order to get the scholarships you need.
I think the difference first off...Vanessa did a Barbara..America Loves Barbara...Second....Suzette Charles...sang with TOO MUCH SOUL..she didn't take it easy...and though sometimes her notes were big i think she over did it...and of course her stage prescene wasnt as elegant Vanessa! Lastly too much Blackness in her vocal.......!!
@TheCounslor 1st let the record reflect I AM BLACK..too her vocals where less mainstream (meaning able to cater to black and white audiences) than Williams' vocals...Charles..was point blank blowing like a sister from the back of the church! Williams' was more subtle like a Pop(ular) Artist!
I'll never forget watching t his pageant and when the last two ended up being Vanessa Williams and Suzette Charles I was already on cloud nine. I loved this song then and it still hasn't lost it's flavor after all these years. I also remember seeing her do guest appearance on Frank Place with Tim Reid and Daphne Maxwell Reid. I wish her career had taken off she would have been a true asset to the entertainment community.
I remember this. She's very talented and pretty. Too bad her career didn't go farther. Her voice sounds like a combination of Vanessa and Barbra Streisand.
Vanessa had the look, the drive and the passion to "be" something, and that has carried here to where she is today. Obviously, Suzette did not: she's just a footnote in Wikipedia, and wore the crown for only a few months. Nobody talks about her today, and you know why? Because she just didn't have that inner spark. Meanwhile, Vanessa is the most famous Miss America alumni of all time.
Rather than taking sides for Vanessa and Suzette, why don't we look at the results of what happened? Suzette disappeared and faded away, while Vanessa is at the top of her career 25 years after the scandal. Obviously, they were both Miss America at one point, but no mistakes were made when it came to first choice for that year: Vanessa Williams!!!!!!
Also, perhaps one of THE best talent in the finals (not including the prelims for those not making top 10) was in the 96 pageant when Shani Nielsen of Indiana sang In His Eyes from Jekyll and Hyde, a song Linda Eder was doing in that show. Shani's performance is STILL being talked about to this day by those who watched that year. She displayed some of the best pitch and intonation for a singer, and I watch it frequently on VHS. If you find a tape of it, enjoy!
@Parker528 Hello Parker 528. I remember that performance. I thought it was very good. I was surprised that she did not make the top 5.
I also remember Leanza Cornett's peformance "A New Life" at the September 1992 pageant. She went on to win the crown. God! That was a show stopper! I was actually in the audience that night. I lived in Delaware at the time and Atlantic City was only an 90 minutes away.
I was there that night in 1983, and backstage afterwards. There is positively NO WAY that Suzette was 5'3". Just look at any video where the top ten is standing together. Suzette was several inches shorter than the next shortest girl. From day one Vanessa stood out. She won talent in her bracket, but it wasn't just about her singing, it was the look, the confidence, and her arrogance. She defied anyone to turn away from her, she just commanded your undivided attention.
Thanks for posting this. I remember always thinking that she was the better singer and was rooting for her to win. Although Vanessa also performed a Streisand classic too (Happy Days)
Suzette sang with more soul than Vanessa Willliams but I wouldn't say she had a better voice. The voices are about equal but Suzette has more of a distinctive voice based on this performance.
Vanessa was and is just breath-taking beautiful. I guess she showed us who had the most distinctive voice with her long career in singing.
Clearly had the pipes. Vanessa had the overall better package--she has that little something extra than Suzette, I was a little kid watching and Vanessa was mesmorizing to watch. Vanessa also chose a better song to perform than Suzette, so no mistakes were made in the final outcome of this one.
Exactly. While Suzette Charles was very talented and elegant, Vaneesa Williams had more celebrity potential. I would give Charles , the slight edge in vocal abiltiy, slight edge mind you, however in other areas, swimsuit, evening gown, interview. Williams out did her.
Suzette Charles definitely could out sing Vanessa. Why did not Suzette's musical career take off or become explosive like Vanessa's. I think Vanessa won the pageant because people said she was more well rounded and gave better interviews and stuff. They both were beautiful and talented. They both were so light skinned that I remember the African American community not being so impressed saying neither one of them were truely black, with complete black features. That took awhile.
@laarbe Vanessa's winning, as with all other winners, is almost without question the result of the prelim interview, as it is like a job interview. There have been numerous contestants who won BOTH swimsuit and talent prelims and NOT even make top5. As for them not looking black, Vanessa DOES have anglo heritage. My vote for the first truly black MA is Marjorie VIncent: both her parents are from Haiti. Just my opinion.
She was just outstanding. I am sure she's been very successful in life, but I sure wish she'd had a bigger singing career. I would love to hear more from her. Come on, Suzette, share your talents with us.
For those who thought Suzette outdid Vanessa, don't forget the interview which counted for a large % of the total score. I suspect Vanessa took the crown with her interview - she always seemed more personable in interviews than Suzette, although I liked Suzette a lot. I also thought Vanessa had a bigger presence in general. Lastly, Suzette was technically a better singer than Vanessa, but Vanessa poured more into her performance, IMO.
@misshoneybear1998 You r right. I think back then prelim interview was a huge part of the final score, like around 40 or 50 percent. The winner has to almost think of interview as applying for a job & and convince the prelim judges she's the one for that job. Vanessa had prolly an awesome interview based on her charisma shown at the pageant this year.
@Parker528 It was common knowledge that the judges said that Vanessa Williams was the CLEAR winner in the interview portion of the pageant. there was no one within several points of her. This certainly helped her win the crown.
@aloofbooks Oh thanks. That's interesting and makes sense! I didn't get serious about watching this pageant til the late 80's, I was not familiar with what the judges could speak about after competition. For me, I was part of the group of pageant watchers who didn't find out WHO won the interview prelim somewhere around the 70th anniversary pageant in '90, with Marjorie Vincent overall with her version of Chopin's Fantasie Impromtpu. That yr, Darla Pruitt, Ms Georgia won prelim interview.
how fantastic you have suzette charles, a former miss america as you're cousin. i do hope you get to meet this history making woman. she is to be greatly admired.
GREAT!!! In perfect pitch and singing effortlessly and flawlessly!! Vanessa Williams is great but Suzette crushes her! As for the 1983 MA title, Vanessa should've won...Suzette has the pipes, but it's the collective package that gains the crown. But still...I'm blown away by Suzette's talent...label worthy!!!
Suzette had a slightly better vocal quality, but Vanessa outdid her in swimsuit, evening gown, interview and was better looking, although Suzette is attractive.
@aloofbooks "A slightly better vocal quality". You need a box of Qtips for those jammed up ears of yours. Suzette's voice is far better then Vanessa W. not to mention her delivery and song selection. I always thought Suzette got robbed but it either of them winning would have made me happy being a person of color.
@jeffreyBboy Your mom might need to be reminded of just how heavy and impt the prelim interview is in determining the winner. If you can't answer questions thrown at you by the prelim judges, then certainly she won't fare well with the press. Understand?
Not to take anything away from the sucess of Vanessa Williams but I always thought Suzzette shsould have won Miss America 1983. She's just as beautiful as Vanessa but a much more talented vocalist.
Yeah, She was a great music teacher. She was actually my middle school music teacher (grades 5-8) Cleary Middle School in Atlantic County, NJ. DeGaetano was her last name.
well, they both launched solo careers in entertainment, and we all know how that story ended. so what does that tell you about who's talent was better?
I don't care much about this who's better business, but I just wanted to comment on your statement. Since when is popular success a measure of real talent? People eat up crap all the time while some real talents fall by the wayside for varied reasons. Being the most popular singer, doesn't always mean you are the better singer. It just means the masses liked you better.
It's not but you also have to have a special something that makes you a star, there are a lot of wonderful session vocalist and backup singers that could blow a number of stars out of the water but for whatever reason they never caught on. Vanessa had the "it" factor Suzette didn't.
@dayg715 Dude, Vanessa won a grammy in her first album, 7 that album was seen as her return to the public and entertainment, after having to deal with the aftermath of those nude photos; her success in Ugly Betty was outstanding.
the audience couldn't wait to applaud ms. charles...they could, however, wait till ms. williams was completely finished with her number 'happy days are here again.' does that tell you anything about whose talent was better? also, suzette was a PRESIDENTIAL SCHOLAR in high school! does anyone remember the white 'gown' vanessa wore that resembled a toga? fashion alert!
Suzette's dress was uglier then sin. Williams has a much prettier dress and was much better in swimsuit. Williams was top 2 in every category that night that's why she won. Suzette was a great vocalist but had zero charisma.
@VTMCompany That white gown? But what about that number she wore down the runway; that year finalists could chose what to wear at the winners annoucement, and sh e apparently promised a relatively unknown fashion designer she knew, that if she made top 10, she would wear that gown......a little odd in color, etc
@VTMCompany People NEED to realize the incredible importance that the prelim interview has on the final score. Since we never get to see that interview the night of finals, it is unfair to assume someone should therefore win based on final night categories alone; they are NOT the only points considered, and back then, prelim total towards total overall points was about 50% at some point.. Just a word to the wise.
What you have to remember is that Miss America is a comprehensive pageant. Talent is only but one part of the pageant along with evening gown, swimsuit, interview etc...
While there is no doubt that Suzette Charles is talented, Vanessa Williams probably outdid her in other areas. Thus, she became Miss America. Although remember, they both became Miss America.
I'd have to agree with those who view this as truly outstanding.
I remember watching this with my wife and we were cheering hard for Suzette Charles -- especially after hearing and seeing this performance.
Of course Vanessa Williams was a great Miss America (overall, but she certainly made her own, er, bed -- shall we say). But talent-wise (on that night at least) it wasn't even close. Charles in a land-slide, IMO.
call me crzy, but i think the cosmos were on to something when vanessa was crowned. i am a huge fan of hers--more so because of her personality than her talent, cuz her acting has always left something to be be desired, and her singing is best on vinyl. Charles is definitely the superior vocalist...BUT..had Charles won she would have only been know as the 1st black Miss America. Vanessa winning ended up putting the entire pageantry circuit under the microscope, even to this day.
@lorimneal uhm, so you don't think her acting performance in Ugly Betty was underpar? She played an incredibly bitchy female, better than even the bitches in the first version of The Woman,
@Parker528 so uhm...guess you didn't notice the above comment was posted...uh...let's see...THREE years ago...certainly long before VW established herself as bitch-cum-laude on Ugly Betty. I stand by my comment. However, VW did do an outstanding job on Ugly Betty. So, uhm...yeah...might not hurt if you check the dates of posts. Uhmmmyeah....
Outside of Charles' talent, she did not shine the whole week at Miss America. Also, she did not fit the stature of a Miss America back then. She was like 4 ft. 11 of something like that. Vanessa had the strawberry blonde hair and blue eyes and was more the Miss America type being the first black to wear the crown. Obviously times have changed and all that foolishness doesn't matter any more. But even today, Suzette could not beat out Vanessa in a pageant.
you're more than entitled to your opinion -- but of course i said "dynamic singer and actress" -- i was talking about the whole package, the star quality, the warmth, etc. -- of course Vanessa cannot be compared to the famous singers I mention -- but next to Suzette, I don't think there's even a reason to have the conversation as to "who is better" after all these years . . . BE WELL!
Hey - trivia - the pageant was 25 years ago this week!!! September 17, 1983!!!
hey everyone -- i think Vanessa's fantastic career as a dynamic singer and actress has proven "who should have won" that year -- suzette has a nice singing voice, but Vanessa has enormous gifts and star quality -- she is also an outstanding mother and an all-around delightful (and GORGEOUS) woman
I don't think she's performing anymore. According to the Miss America organization, she's married to an opthalmologist, Leonard Bley, whose practice is in New York City, and has two children, Hannah and Ilan.
suzette versus vanessa: to me the edge was given to vanessa williams because she was a double winner in both talent and swimsuit preliminaries. suzette did not win her swimsuit competition. this is not to take away from her enormous talent, though. i personally think if both girls had competed the same night in talent prelims, suzette would have bested vanessa.
@victortalkingmch Vanessa did NOT win based solely on the two prelim wins. I know of at two examples of women winning both prelim categories and not even making top 5. In the 96 pageant alone, two girls won both prelims; Melissa Short didn't make top 5 and Patricia Leines was only 3rd runner up. Any MA pageant expert will agree that the prelim interview is more impt than any other categories, preliminary or finals.
It's amazing how similar these posts are to American Idol. People always assume negative things about a contender's attitude when it's obvious their favorite is inferior.
Suzette Charles' performance is the best vocal I have EVER heard on the Miss America pageant! She went from the bottom to the top of her range with no scooping or tonal changes. Very hard to do!
I respect Vanessa's win as it's an overall scoring process, but vocally she ain't in the league. I know singing. This is it!
@Devon3579 If you want AWESOME rare talent at MIss America watch Helen Goldsby at the 95 pageant, a finalist who was a Juiliard student; or Heather Whitestone, in 94; when she finished her ballet at finals, she received about 30 seconds of ovations, which is a lot for a show live with time restraints. Being deaf though, she could only see the clapping.
@Devon3579 Be sure to check out the 96 pageant (tara holland's yr) and watch Shani Nielsen sing "in His Eyes" from Jekyll and Hyde. Charles IS outstanding here, but Shani, without question, had the best pitch and intonation of any vocal finalist I ever saw. It is worth buying the tape from the MAO for that yr JUST to hear her sing.
Williams sang "Happy Days Are Here Again," right? I thought it was forgettable, but if we're debating who should have won, I'd say Williams should have. She's more accessible, and Charles was rather aloof. You need for a spokesmodel which is pretty much what Miss America is. Unless you have a voice with the kind of control and power Charles had. Then we're talking about a whole different thing that Miss America is. I'll never forget this moment in the pageant's history.
Her performance was good, but Vanessa Williams was slighty better, moreover, Vanessa had a better body overall.
The Miss America Pageant has several competitions that a contestant has to perfom in. Overall, as someone who watched the pageant that year, I would have to say that Vanessa Williams outdid Suzette Charles, not by much, but I would have selected her.
PBS has her at 5'3". That statuesque business can't be altogether true. Susan Powell, who won the title three years earlier, was 5'4". Gretchen Carlson, Miss America 1989, was 5'3".
I watched this Miss America pageant that night and Suzette Charles had me spellbound during her talent segment. She brought a soulful style to the song. It was a historical moment to witness two African Americans win 1st runner up and the title for the very first time. I haven't seen this in over 20 years and bless you for posting it!
@Sweeti4672 back then talent was much longer for each contestant, like somewhere btw 3 and 4 mins. Gradually it shortened to its now terribly short duration.
I remember that night I don't remember Suzette winning talent. She won talent the night of her prelim and so did Vanessa who was on a different night. Suzette just didn't fit the Miss America image in 1993. She wasn't statuesque enough.
True, her stage presence was lacking, though she has a nice voice. I too heard that she had a bad attitude. I know when they took the crown from Vanessa, she too spoke not too kindly of her (of Vanessa). Oh well, cest la vie. I am sure she is happy wherever she is.
Thanks so much for posting this...I've never forgotten about this performance....Her voice is Sooooo supple and pure....LOVE it...beautiful song and rendition. Shame she didn't become bigger star...she deserves it.
Her voice is incredible. I never understood how she didn't make it a long career in entertainment. Vanessa was a bit more animated in her talent, and certainly had more stage presence, but in my opinion, Suzette's voice was better. I heard that most pageant observers that year said that the top two were head and shoulders above the rest of the pack. It's ironic that both got to wear the crown that year. I am a HUGE Vanessa fan, but thanks for posting this.
@muscled57@muscled57: Have you not heard any of her albums, or watch the Grammy's the year she won an award, or see one of her Broadway shows, or even more recently, Ugly Betty? She HAS made a long career in entertainment, if anything, more than any other career path. Google her via wikipedia and you'll find out about her extensive entertainment career. She is a survivor.
Suzette voice is outstanding She is a little over 5 foot 3 with a beautiful figure. Vanesa wasnt much taller.She was wonderfully trained and a sweet girl not nasty at all.She had some bad luck and made some wrong moves in show biz but she is a legitimate talent who made America proud.
Vanessa Williams DID NOT have blonde hair and blue eyes(idiot). She has brown hair and green eyes, which is fairly common among black people. God some of
@terpmaniac Actually, don't agree with it being COMMON for blacks to have green eyes; if you mean to say it sometimes occurs among black with mixed/caucasian ancestry, then I would agree with that. Blacks with mostly all black heritage ARE not likely to have such eye color. Just doesn't happen genetically.
Beautiful face and voice but no showmanship. Vanessa blew her out the water that night in all categories. The MAO would not have endorsed this candidate because she was too short and did not fit their image at the time. Vanessa had blonde hair and blue eyes. That was the only way a black contestant would have won.
Suzette sang better than Vanessa IMO. My guess is that the vote between the two of them was very close.
ronnykmarshall 1 week ago
vanessa is still recognized as miss america on the list of all miss america winners
MultiFierce 1 month ago
We don't agree on her volume level at 0:50.
VTMCompany 1 month ago
I would have picked Vanessa for Miss America too but Suzette did sing better that night. Vanessa's singing wasn't as good then as it is now.
DaxShaw 3 months ago
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DaxShaw 3 months ago
i always come back to hear this one again and again. vanessa's 'happy days' is great, but this one by suzette is better...
VTMCompany 4 months ago 3
@Adizero7000 no, suzette took over duties of miss america for the last two months after vanessa williams was forced to step down.
VTMCompany 4 months ago
@Adizero7000 She did sing too loudly, and she was just a bit too plain looking when you put her side by side with Vanessa. She was an awesome contestant, but first runner up was the perfect spot for her ... Vanessa clearly outshone everyone the entire week. It was sort of a foregone conclusion on Saturday afternoon leading up to the final night of competition that it was Vanessa's to lose. i'm happy Suzette was able to take over for Vanessa after she stepped down.
hoyageorge 4 months ago
@Adizero7000 No ... she took over for Vanessa Williams after she resigned. Suzette only served for a month or two before she crowned the next year's winner.
hoyageorge 4 months ago
My co-worker was a musician for the Miss America Pageant. He said the judges believed Vanessa was sexier and had more star quality!!! He also said it was so very close that they could have tossed a coin to pick the winner. LOL
butler372 4 months ago
@butler372
Here's what Suzette said in article for Santa Fe, NM newspaper: Question: "How did Miss Charles feel when Miss Williams won the title and she was named first runner-up?" Answer: "I was devastated, she says. "I wanted to win so badly. I've wanted to win since I was 7! AND IT WAS SO CLOSE. LATER I FOUND OUT I LOST TO VANESSA BY ONE POINT!"
VTMCompany 4 months ago
@VTMCompany I worked with the Miss NJ pageant for years. The "one point loss" was a rumor for years. I highly doubt that was a case. Back then the final ballot each judge ranked the top 5 in order of preference. First place got 10 points, second place 5 points, third place 3 points, fourth 2 points and fifth 1 point. So there is no way it would have been a 1 point difference if NJ and NY toggled between first and second place on ballots.
SeanL71 4 months ago
@SeanL71Interesting. Then how can MAO explain the tie that had to be broken at the 88 pageant/ i think it was between Marlies Ricardos and Lori Lee Kelly for 2nd and 3rd runner up. Also, there was in tie of I think maybe 3rd runner up the year Pam Eldred won. It made Miss Ohio 2nd runner up instead of 1st. How can it be then that there were ties then?
Parker528 2 months ago
@butler372 I would agree with the judges here. Both women are attractive, but Vanessa had more overall star potential.
bleachbred 3 months ago
Nice performance but she did loose a bit of control when pushing her voice. Also she should have pulled the mic away during loud passages of the song. Vanessa Williams had the better performance.
RickZed 6 months ago
She Nailed That Song... Wonderful...
PoppaSweet 7 months ago in playlist 1234
@Adizero7000 No, she didn't win Miss America the year after. Vanessa Williams had her crown taken away 11 months afterwards. Suzette got to serve as Miss America for one month because she was the runner up.
josbo51715 8 months ago
God, I love this. Chills on top of chills. This, for me, is the quintessential 'Miss America' vocal talent performance. It really just doesn't get any better than this ('non-classically' speaking, and -- maybe -- at all). What a fantastic contestant Suzette Charles was. Wish somebody would upload the Swimsuit competition from that year (now that we have Evening Gown).
TinoAnnie 8 months ago
still gives me chills...the other performance by eventual winner doesn't...
VTMCompany 9 months ago
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TinoAnnie 8 months ago
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@VTMCompany As much as we all love Vanessa Williams (much lovelier + more talented now than then, IMO), I do agree. It's interesting, because we've all heard anecdotes re: the personalities of these two women (frankly, I don't care about such issues). M A was, especially then, a figurehead -- and I don't really care what she's like behind the scenes, I just want her to be beautiful and talented. For me, on that night, that person was Suzette Charles. And that's my honest, objective opinion.
TinoAnnie 8 months ago
Yall must of forgot this back in the days all white judges u have to sing with less soul and vanessa did it she played her cards right lol
shaqimianj 10 months ago
@thesinger. I agree with you. My daughter was in a pageant over this weekend and that's what I told her. If she wants to win pageants, she is going to have to be middle of the road. She said, "momma, I'm not gonna do that." Here in America, you have to or you aren't gonna get nothin'. You have to know how to play the game in order to get the scholarships you need.
bkttkb3214 11 months ago
I don't know why she didn't make it big. She's both prettier and a better singer than Vanessa, who can barely sing at all, imo.
antij1 1 year ago 3
SHE SINGS BETTER HANDS DOWN! But we all have our own opinions.. I love them both!
JennasMusic76 1 year ago
I think the difference first off...Vanessa did a Barbara..America Loves Barbara...Second....Suzette Charles...sang with TOO MUCH SOUL..she didn't take it easy...and though sometimes her notes were big i think she over did it...and of course her stage prescene wasnt as elegant Vanessa! Lastly too much Blackness in her vocal.......!!
thesinger 1 year ago
@thesinger what the hell are u talkin about " too much blackness". it was enough "blackness" to get first runner up!
TheCounslor 1 year ago
@TheCounslor 1st let the record reflect I AM BLACK..too her vocals where less mainstream (meaning able to cater to black and white audiences) than Williams' vocals...Charles..was point blank blowing like a sister from the back of the church! Williams' was more subtle like a Pop(ular) Artist!
thesinger 1 year ago
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truly the best talent in pageant history
navantc 1 year ago
truly one of the best talents in pageant history
navantc 1 year ago
I'll never forget watching t his pageant and when the last two ended up being Vanessa Williams and Suzette Charles I was already on cloud nine. I loved this song then and it still hasn't lost it's flavor after all these years. I also remember seeing her do guest appearance on Frank Place with Tim Reid and Daphne Maxwell Reid. I wish her career had taken off she would have been a true asset to the entertainment community.
TheZKnight 1 year ago
I remember this. She's very talented and pretty. Too bad her career didn't go farther. Her voice sounds like a combination of Vanessa and Barbra Streisand.
pnyc1969 1 year ago
"With the feeling that I get, I don't even mind if I get 1st runner-up..."
VTMCompany 1 year ago
I really think she sang better than Vanessa Williams that same night...WOW
sh8kit 1 year ago
AMAZING!!!!!
sharnyboi 1 year ago
Thank you sooooo much for posting this. I've been looking for this performance for years!
Tryinitonmyown 1 year ago
omgsh! she sure can sing! O__O
MavNL43 1 year ago
omgsh! she's good! O__O
MavNL43 1 year ago
Stunning performance! One can see just how strong a singer she was that night. Brava!! Mylam O. James
Jcarolinajr 1 year ago
Vanessa had the look, the drive and the passion to "be" something, and that has carried here to where she is today. Obviously, Suzette did not: she's just a footnote in Wikipedia, and wore the crown for only a few months. Nobody talks about her today, and you know why? Because she just didn't have that inner spark. Meanwhile, Vanessa is the most famous Miss America alumni of all time.
JumpStreet1983 1 year ago
Rather than taking sides for Vanessa and Suzette, why don't we look at the results of what happened? Suzette disappeared and faded away, while Vanessa is at the top of her career 25 years after the scandal. Obviously, they were both Miss America at one point, but no mistakes were made when it came to first choice for that year: Vanessa Williams!!!!!!
JumpStreet1983 1 year ago
Also, perhaps one of THE best talent in the finals (not including the prelims for those not making top 10) was in the 96 pageant when Shani Nielsen of Indiana sang In His Eyes from Jekyll and Hyde, a song Linda Eder was doing in that show. Shani's performance is STILL being talked about to this day by those who watched that year. She displayed some of the best pitch and intonation for a singer, and I watch it frequently on VHS. If you find a tape of it, enjoy!
Parker528 1 year ago
@Parker528 Hello Parker 528. I remember that performance. I thought it was very good. I was surprised that she did not make the top 5.
I also remember Leanza Cornett's peformance "A New Life" at the September 1992 pageant. She went on to win the crown. God! That was a show stopper! I was actually in the audience that night. I lived in Delaware at the time and Atlantic City was only an 90 minutes away.
aloofbooks 1 year ago
wow, what a gorgeous woman. One of the best singers in pageant history.
djsfw 1 year ago
I was there that night in 1983, and backstage afterwards. There is positively NO WAY that Suzette was 5'3". Just look at any video where the top ten is standing together. Suzette was several inches shorter than the next shortest girl. From day one Vanessa stood out. She won talent in her bracket, but it wasn't just about her singing, it was the look, the confidence, and her arrogance. She defied anyone to turn away from her, she just commanded your undivided attention.
LiamForeman 1 year ago
she had an awesome. i can see why she can in 1st runne up. either way that was the first time we had to blk women hold the title in the same year.
hupyt 1 year ago
Thanks for posting this. I remember always thinking that she was the better singer and was rooting for her to win. Although Vanessa also performed a Streisand classic too (Happy Days)
davegchicago 2 years ago
Suzette sang with more soul than Vanessa Willliams but I wouldn't say she had a better voice. The voices are about equal but Suzette has more of a distinctive voice based on this performance.
Vanessa was and is just breath-taking beautiful. I guess she showed us who had the most distinctive voice with her long career in singing.
MrStyle23 2 years ago
Clearly had the pipes. Vanessa had the overall better package--she has that little something extra than Suzette, I was a little kid watching and Vanessa was mesmorizing to watch. Vanessa also chose a better song to perform than Suzette, so no mistakes were made in the final outcome of this one.
quethetee 2 years ago
Exactly. While Suzette Charles was very talented and elegant, Vaneesa Williams had more celebrity potential. I would give Charles , the slight edge in vocal abiltiy, slight edge mind you, however in other areas, swimsuit, evening gown, interview. Williams out did her.
aloofbooks 1 year ago
I didn't know that this was a Barbra Streisand song.
josbo51715 2 years ago
Her "Wet" album.
gsoglenn 2 years ago
So beautiful and so talented.
Slohci 2 years ago
Suzette Charles definitely could out sing Vanessa. Why did not Suzette's musical career take off or become explosive like Vanessa's. I think Vanessa won the pageant because people said she was more well rounded and gave better interviews and stuff. They both were beautiful and talented. They both were so light skinned that I remember the African American community not being so impressed saying neither one of them were truely black, with complete black features. That took awhile.
laarbe 2 years ago
@laarbe Vanessa's winning, as with all other winners, is almost without question the result of the prelim interview, as it is like a job interview. There have been numerous contestants who won BOTH swimsuit and talent prelims and NOT even make top5. As for them not looking black, Vanessa DOES have anglo heritage. My vote for the first truly black MA is Marjorie VIncent: both her parents are from Haiti. Just my opinion.
Parker528 2 months ago
She was just outstanding. I am sure she's been very successful in life, but I sure wish she'd had a bigger singing career. I would love to hear more from her. Come on, Suzette, share your talents with us.
Fmacden 2 years ago
For those who thought Suzette outdid Vanessa, don't forget the interview which counted for a large % of the total score. I suspect Vanessa took the crown with her interview - she always seemed more personable in interviews than Suzette, although I liked Suzette a lot. I also thought Vanessa had a bigger presence in general. Lastly, Suzette was technically a better singer than Vanessa, but Vanessa poured more into her performance, IMO.
misshoneybear1998 2 years ago
@misshoneybear1998 You r right. I think back then prelim interview was a huge part of the final score, like around 40 or 50 percent. The winner has to almost think of interview as applying for a job & and convince the prelim judges she's the one for that job. Vanessa had prolly an awesome interview based on her charisma shown at the pageant this year.
Parker528 1 year ago
@Parker528 It was common knowledge that the judges said that Vanessa Williams was the CLEAR winner in the interview portion of the pageant. there was no one within several points of her. This certainly helped her win the crown.
aloofbooks 1 year ago
@aloofbooks Oh thanks. That's interesting and makes sense! I didn't get serious about watching this pageant til the late 80's, I was not familiar with what the judges could speak about after competition. For me, I was part of the group of pageant watchers who didn't find out WHO won the interview prelim somewhere around the 70th anniversary pageant in '90, with Marjorie Vincent overall with her version of Chopin's Fantasie Impromtpu. That yr, Darla Pruitt, Ms Georgia won prelim interview.
Parker528 1 year ago
@Parker528 No problem. I am a big fan of the pageant. It is back on ABC.
aloofbooks 1 year ago
@aloofbooks I know; I am thrilled about that!!
Parker528 1 year ago
@Parker528 Me too!
aloofbooks 1 year ago
this is my 2nd cousin
i haven't met her yet but i am only 15
her mom was my dad's ,fathers blood sister, her maiden name was burroughs
haha nd i am khadijah burroughs, her little 2nd cousin. i hope she'll give me singing lessons 1 day, but she now lives in florida and i live N.C
go cousin
Karmaizabytch15 2 years ago
Your cousin is wonderful!
ronnykmarshall 2 years ago
@Karmaizabytch15
how fantastic you have suzette charles, a former miss america as you're cousin. i do hope you get to meet this history making woman. she is to be greatly admired.
bless you khadijah!
wntoply6 2 years ago
GREAT!!! In perfect pitch and singing effortlessly and flawlessly!! Vanessa Williams is great but Suzette crushes her! As for the 1983 MA title, Vanessa should've won...Suzette has the pipes, but it's the collective package that gains the crown. But still...I'm blown away by Suzette's talent...label worthy!!!
MrRodgers78 2 years ago 3
We were ingaged but Miss Williams stole me away from her...It was horrible being loved by these 2 at the same time...
NormanVail 2 years ago
Nobody does old school singing like this anymore. *cries*
dadevi 2 years ago
Suzette had a slightly better vocal quality, but Vanessa outdid her in swimsuit, evening gown, interview and was better looking, although Suzette is attractive.
The judges made the correct choice.
aloofbooks 2 years ago 2
@aloofbooks "A slightly better vocal quality". You need a box of Qtips for those jammed up ears of yours. Suzette's voice is far better then Vanessa W. not to mention her delivery and song selection. I always thought Suzette got robbed but it either of them winning would have made me happy being a person of color.
kevseb66 1 year ago
Sing it Cuz!!!!
EBertnyc 2 years ago
Kevseb66 you are sooooooo right, My mother to this day still thinks that she was robbed.
jeffreyBboy 2 years ago 2
@jeffreyBboy Your mom might need to be reminded of just how heavy and impt the prelim interview is in determining the winner. If you can't answer questions thrown at you by the prelim judges, then certainly she won't fare well with the press. Understand?
Parker528 2 months ago
Beautiful....perfect!!!!
JONROSE44 2 years ago 2
Not to take anything away from the sucess of Vanessa Williams but I always thought Suzzette shsould have won Miss America 1983. She's just as beautiful as Vanessa but a much more talented vocalist.
kevseb66 2 years ago 3
Agreed!
Itsumotomodachi 2 years ago
to Done5908
Yeah, She was a great music teacher. She was actually my middle school music teacher (grades 5-8) Cleary Middle School in Atlantic County, NJ. DeGaetano was her last name.
shertis 2 years ago 3
Bring back memories! Her mother was my high school music teacher in S. Jersey.
shertis 2 years ago 2
What was her mother like? Was she a good music teacher? Just wondering.
Done5908 2 years ago
@Done5908 I heard BOTH parents have a musical background, and one of them was an instructor.
Parker528 1 year ago
well, they both launched solo careers in entertainment, and we all know how that story ended. so what does that tell you about who's talent was better?
dayg715 3 years ago
I don't care much about this who's better business, but I just wanted to comment on your statement. Since when is popular success a measure of real talent? People eat up crap all the time while some real talents fall by the wayside for varied reasons. Being the most popular singer, doesn't always mean you are the better singer. It just means the masses liked you better.
maddwitch 3 years ago 14
It's not but you also have to have a special something that makes you a star, there are a lot of wonderful session vocalist and backup singers that could blow a number of stars out of the water but for whatever reason they never caught on. Vanessa had the "it" factor Suzette didn't.
cushion93 3 years ago
@maddwitch i agree just look at britney spears, she's def not the best singer out there by a long shot yet very popular.
kennedy220 1 year ago
@dayg715 Dude, Vanessa won a grammy in her first album, 7 that album was seen as her return to the public and entertainment, after having to deal with the aftermath of those nude photos; her success in Ugly Betty was outstanding.
Parker528 1 year ago
lol who in the hell remember suzette charles....! ALERT!
larell28 3 years ago
Well...me for one, and the person who posted it for two. This performance on the Miss America pageant I always remember as the best ever on the show.
Done5908 2 years ago
the audience couldn't wait to applaud ms. charles...they could, however, wait till ms. williams was completely finished with her number 'happy days are here again.' does that tell you anything about whose talent was better? also, suzette was a PRESIDENTIAL SCHOLAR in high school! does anyone remember the white 'gown' vanessa wore that resembled a toga? fashion alert!
VTMCompany 3 years ago
Suzette's dress was uglier then sin. Williams has a much prettier dress and was much better in swimsuit. Williams was top 2 in every category that night that's why she won. Suzette was a great vocalist but had zero charisma.
cushion93 3 years ago
@VTMCompany That white gown? But what about that number she wore down the runway; that year finalists could chose what to wear at the winners annoucement, and sh e apparently promised a relatively unknown fashion designer she knew, that if she made top 10, she would wear that gown......a little odd in color, etc
Parker528 1 year ago
@VTMCompany People NEED to realize the incredible importance that the prelim interview has on the final score. Since we never get to see that interview the night of finals, it is unfair to assume someone should therefore win based on final night categories alone; they are NOT the only points considered, and back then, prelim total towards total overall points was about 50% at some point.. Just a word to the wise.
Parker528 2 months ago
IS THAT FLOJO
butler372 3 years ago
LOOKS LIKE FLOJO!!!!!
butler372 3 years ago
What you have to remember is that Miss America is a comprehensive pageant. Talent is only but one part of the pageant along with evening gown, swimsuit, interview etc...
While there is no doubt that Suzette Charles is talented, Vanessa Williams probably outdid her in other areas. Thus, she became Miss America. Although remember, they both became Miss America.
aloofbooks 3 years ago 6
I'd have to agree with those who view this as truly outstanding.
I remember watching this with my wife and we were cheering hard for Suzette Charles -- especially after hearing and seeing this performance.
Of course Vanessa Williams was a great Miss America (overall, but she certainly made her own, er, bed -- shall we say). But talent-wise (on that night at least) it wasn't even close. Charles in a land-slide, IMO.
Slohci 3 years ago
call me crzy, but i think the cosmos were on to something when vanessa was crowned. i am a huge fan of hers--more so because of her personality than her talent, cuz her acting has always left something to be be desired, and her singing is best on vinyl. Charles is definitely the superior vocalist...BUT..had Charles won she would have only been know as the 1st black Miss America. Vanessa winning ended up putting the entire pageantry circuit under the microscope, even to this day.
lorimneal 3 years ago
@lorimneal uhm, so you don't think her acting performance in Ugly Betty was underpar? She played an incredibly bitchy female, better than even the bitches in the first version of The Woman,
Parker528 2 months ago
@Parker528 so uhm...guess you didn't notice the above comment was posted...uh...let's see...THREE years ago...certainly long before VW established herself as bitch-cum-laude on Ugly Betty. I stand by my comment. However, VW did do an outstanding job on Ugly Betty. So, uhm...yeah...might not hurt if you check the dates of posts. Uhmmmyeah....
FatBabyCheeks 2 months ago
Outside of Charles' talent, she did not shine the whole week at Miss America. Also, she did not fit the stature of a Miss America back then. She was like 4 ft. 11 of something like that. Vanessa had the strawberry blonde hair and blue eyes and was more the Miss America type being the first black to wear the crown. Obviously times have changed and all that foolishness doesn't matter any more. But even today, Suzette could not beat out Vanessa in a pageant.
DriveAustra 3 years ago 2
I'll save "spectacular" for Louis Armstrong, Edith Piaf, Patsy Cline and Ella Fitzgerald. I'll stick with "nice" for Suzette.
BabyDillGerkin 3 years ago
Just like I'd say okay over dynamic about Williams' singing.
Done5908 3 years ago
you're more than entitled to your opinion -- but of course i said "dynamic singer and actress" -- i was talking about the whole package, the star quality, the warmth, etc. -- of course Vanessa cannot be compared to the famous singers I mention -- but next to Suzette, I don't think there's even a reason to have the conversation as to "who is better" after all these years . . . BE WELL!
Hey - trivia - the pageant was 25 years ago this week!!! September 17, 1983!!!
BabyDillGerkin 3 years ago
hey everyone -- i think Vanessa's fantastic career as a dynamic singer and actress has proven "who should have won" that year -- suzette has a nice singing voice, but Vanessa has enormous gifts and star quality -- she is also an outstanding mother and an all-around delightful (and GORGEOUS) woman
BabyDillGerkin 3 years ago 2
To call Charles' voice "nice" is to understate the obvious. It's closer to spectacular than nice.
Done5908 3 years ago
The microphone looks bigger than her. I am a Vanessa fan but Suzette's vocal was outstanding. Where is she now?
adelgado75 3 years ago
I don't think she's performing anymore. According to the Miss America organization, she's married to an opthalmologist, Leonard Bley, whose practice is in New York City, and has two children, Hannah and Ilan.
Done5908 3 years ago
suzette versus vanessa: to me the edge was given to vanessa williams because she was a double winner in both talent and swimsuit preliminaries. suzette did not win her swimsuit competition. this is not to take away from her enormous talent, though. i personally think if both girls had competed the same night in talent prelims, suzette would have bested vanessa.
victortalkingmch 3 years ago
@victortalkingmch Vanessa did NOT win based solely on the two prelim wins. I know of at two examples of women winning both prelim categories and not even making top 5. In the 96 pageant alone, two girls won both prelims; Melissa Short didn't make top 5 and Patricia Leines was only 3rd runner up. Any MA pageant expert will agree that the prelim interview is more impt than any other categories, preliminary or finals.
Parker528 2 months ago
It's amazing how similar these posts are to American Idol. People always assume negative things about a contender's attitude when it's obvious their favorite is inferior.
Suzette Charles' performance is the best vocal I have EVER heard on the Miss America pageant! She went from the bottom to the top of her range with no scooping or tonal changes. Very hard to do!
I respect Vanessa's win as it's an overall scoring process, but vocally she ain't in the league. I know singing. This is it!
Devon3579 3 years ago
@Devon3579 If you want AWESOME rare talent at MIss America watch Helen Goldsby at the 95 pageant, a finalist who was a Juiliard student; or Heather Whitestone, in 94; when she finished her ballet at finals, she received about 30 seconds of ovations, which is a lot for a show live with time restraints. Being deaf though, she could only see the clapping.
Parker528 1 year ago
@Devon3579 Be sure to check out the 96 pageant (tara holland's yr) and watch Shani Nielsen sing "in His Eyes" from Jekyll and Hyde. Charles IS outstanding here, but Shani, without question, had the best pitch and intonation of any vocal finalist I ever saw. It is worth buying the tape from the MAO for that yr JUST to hear her sing.
Parker528 2 months ago
Williams sang "Happy Days Are Here Again," right? I thought it was forgettable, but if we're debating who should have won, I'd say Williams should have. She's more accessible, and Charles was rather aloof. You need for a spokesmodel which is pretty much what Miss America is. Unless you have a voice with the kind of control and power Charles had. Then we're talking about a whole different thing that Miss America is. I'll never forget this moment in the pageant's history.
Done5908 3 years ago
I dont know how were related because I blacker than night and shes white mixed with african american and italian
jb26508 3 years ago
Thats my cousin i think 5th shes related either to my grandmother or grandfather I forgot
jb26508 3 years ago 2
Her performance was good, but Vanessa Williams was slighty better, moreover, Vanessa had a better body overall.
The Miss America Pageant has several competitions that a contestant has to perfom in. Overall, as someone who watched the pageant that year, I would have to say that Vanessa Williams outdid Suzette Charles, not by much, but I would have selected her.
I think the judges made the correct choice.
aloofbooks 3 years ago
PBS has her at 5'3". That statuesque business can't be altogether true. Susan Powell, who won the title three years earlier, was 5'4". Gretchen Carlson, Miss America 1989, was 5'3".
Done5908 3 years ago
@Done5908 and Kylene Barker was even shorter, the shortest ever.
Parker528 1 year ago
@Done5908 Kylene Barker is recognized officially as the shortest winner ever.
Parker528 2 months ago
She was too short. She is 5'2.
aloofbooks 3 years ago
This is the greatest moment the Miss America talent competition ever had to offer.
Done5908 3 years ago
I watched this Miss America pageant that night and Suzette Charles had me spellbound during her talent segment. She brought a soulful style to the song. It was a historical moment to witness two African Americans win 1st runner up and the title for the very first time. I haven't seen this in over 20 years and bless you for posting it!
NubbyG05 3 years ago
where talents limited to 1:50 - 2 minutes?
Sweeti4672 3 years ago
@Sweeti4672 back then talent was much longer for each contestant, like somewhere btw 3 and 4 mins. Gradually it shortened to its now terribly short duration.
Parker528 1 year ago
Suzette won the talent portion in the finals, which actually moved her from 10th to 2nd.
intre94 3 years ago
I remember that night I don't remember Suzette winning talent. She won talent the night of her prelim and so did Vanessa who was on a different night. Suzette just didn't fit the Miss America image in 1993. She wasn't statuesque enough.
DriveAustra 3 years ago
in terms of voice i have to agree her voice is great but Vanessa is a balanced singer and performer.
lexlib 4 years ago 2
does anyone have vanessa'a talent competition video? i'm also looking for Angela Perez Baraquio's talent and coronation video.
lexlib 4 years ago
True, her stage presence was lacking, though she has a nice voice. I too heard that she had a bad attitude. I know when they took the crown from Vanessa, she too spoke not too kindly of her (of Vanessa). Oh well, cest la vie. I am sure she is happy wherever she is.
PaiSLEE777 4 years ago
Thanks so much for posting this...I've never forgotten about this performance....Her voice is Sooooo supple and pure....LOVE it...beautiful song and rendition. Shame she didn't become bigger star...she deserves it.
hoseala 4 years ago
She did such a beautiful job!!
SEFYH 4 years ago 2
Her voice is incredible. I never understood how she didn't make it a long career in entertainment. Vanessa was a bit more animated in her talent, and certainly had more stage presence, but in my opinion, Suzette's voice was better. I heard that most pageant observers that year said that the top two were head and shoulders above the rest of the pack. It's ironic that both got to wear the crown that year. I am a HUGE Vanessa fan, but thanks for posting this.
muscled57 4 years ago 4
@muscled57 @muscled57: Have you not heard any of her albums, or watch the Grammy's the year she won an award, or see one of her Broadway shows, or even more recently, Ugly Betty? She HAS made a long career in entertainment, if anything, more than any other career path. Google her via wikipedia and you'll find out about her extensive entertainment career. She is a survivor.
Parker528 1 year ago
Suzette voice is outstanding She is a little over 5 foot 3 with a beautiful figure. Vanesa wasnt much taller.She was wonderfully trained and a sweet girl not nasty at all.She had some bad luck and made some wrong moves in show biz but she is a legitimate talent who made America proud.
frankmercadovaldes 4 years ago 3
Vanessa was around 5'6.
lexlib 4 years ago
Vanessa Williams DID NOT have blonde hair and blue eyes(idiot). She has brown hair and green eyes, which is fairly common among black people. God some of
terpmaniac 4 years ago 2
Vanessa´s hair is sandy-blond and she has green-grey blues eyes, and honey-colored skin complexion.
nichtsleezy 4 years ago
Thank you.
australdrive 4 years ago
Hi baby, I agree, this is Nessa's description.
GabriellaMJ 2 years ago
@terpmaniac Actually, don't agree with it being COMMON for blacks to have green eyes; if you mean to say it sometimes occurs among black with mixed/caucasian ancestry, then I would agree with that. Blacks with mostly all black heritage ARE not likely to have such eye color. Just doesn't happen genetically.
Parker528 1 year ago
Beautiful face and voice but no showmanship. Vanessa blew her out the water that night in all categories. The MAO would not have endorsed this candidate because she was too short and did not fit their image at the time. Vanessa had blonde hair and blue eyes. That was the only way a black contestant would have won.
australdrive 4 years ago
Comment removed
Parker528 1 year ago
Wasn't she 4'6" and really nasty? Seems I heard or read that.
Laceydog 4 years ago