I remember one of the most difficult problems I had when I was an evangelical fundamentalist was to try to believe what I was taught and to retain my intellectual integrity. For example I had to "harmonize" the imprecatory and the attitudes demonstrated by the writers with Christian character. The truth is, their attitude was sinful. They show bitter, seething hatred which is sin. They demand vengence....knock out their teeth...crush their babies heads on the pavement!
@prairiemark It is not that I think these psalms should not be in the Bible...they are there for a reason. Perhaps it is to show what happens when one group of people oppresses another. Perhaps it is to show the human struggle we all go through when we are wronged. We can deny our thirst for vengence....we can act it out (get a gun) or we can beg God to do it for us. I guess it is good these verses are in the Bible. But please dont say the attitudes displayed are not sinful...more dishonesty.
He's right about the rejection of the imprecatories in Evangelical circles being more subtle. What the Evangelicals say when you bring them up is, "Well, that was then. But since Jesus came, we've moved into an era of GRACE." They imply that, because of grace, those psalms are outdated, irrelevant, not religiously correct. So they idolize GRACE & set aside Holy Spirit-inspired words as nothing. It's just as hateful an attitude as the German's, but it's cloaked in "nice", religious reasons.
What a joke. He gave no explanation as to why the objection was allegedly incorrect, merely an assertion. Is this what passes as critical thought in religious circles?
Oh, you mean it's taken out of context? Gee, I've never heard that one before when a believer finds the doctrines of their faith embarrassing and in conflict with morality. The problem in this case would be this vid is put up by this jokers own organization. So, all the context they wanted all of us to have is here.
I see the point when is said that is a blasphemy taking out parts of the bible we don't like. That's the wholly book of christian nation. But I find it disgusting when christians justify evil things in the bible, when they say that god allows them to hate and wish evil to other people and that this is justice. God's justice. This is awful.
@zikezc No, in the Old Testament, so many Gentiles were murdered by God as an act of his judgement on them. And you must understand that, even today, when sinners die, that is an act of God's judgement and they will eventually go to Hell. We are to love Gentiles and Jews alike today, because as a result of Christ, they all can be saved. But in the Old Testament, ONLY the Jews were God's people.
@zikezc And please don't ask questions in ignorance, assuming that you know the answers when you actually don't at all. It's arrogant and isn't the brightest thing to do.
I wouldn't bother to waste my time to respond you if you didn't call me ignorant. Yes I know that Yahweh was a god only for jews. I don't see any reason why today it wouldn't be the same. There is no way to merge god's justice and god's mercy. God could have found a better way to work all this out, he is so human to be a god. I will not bother to waste a single second to reply to your comment. Good luck.
@zikezc Also, to respond to "when they say that god allows them to hate and wish evil to other people and that this is justice." First of all, Christians shouldn't say that because that isn't a part of the new covenant. BUT the Jews on the other hand didn't wish EVIL on their opponents, they wished JUDGEMENT on their opponents for THEIR evil. And yes, proper judgement on the wicked IS justice and we all would be in Hell if Christ hadn't died in sinner's place.
I remember one of the most difficult problems I had when I was an evangelical fundamentalist was to try to believe what I was taught and to retain my intellectual integrity. For example I had to "harmonize" the imprecatory and the attitudes demonstrated by the writers with Christian character. The truth is, their attitude was sinful. They show bitter, seething hatred which is sin. They demand vengence....knock out their teeth...crush their babies heads on the pavement!
prairiemark 2 months ago
@prairiemark It is not that I think these psalms should not be in the Bible...they are there for a reason. Perhaps it is to show what happens when one group of people oppresses another. Perhaps it is to show the human struggle we all go through when we are wronged. We can deny our thirst for vengence....we can act it out (get a gun) or we can beg God to do it for us. I guess it is good these verses are in the Bible. But please dont say the attitudes displayed are not sinful...more dishonesty.
prairiemark 2 months ago
He's right about the rejection of the imprecatories in Evangelical circles being more subtle. What the Evangelicals say when you bring them up is, "Well, that was then. But since Jesus came, we've moved into an era of GRACE." They imply that, because of grace, those psalms are outdated, irrelevant, not religiously correct. So they idolize GRACE & set aside Holy Spirit-inspired words as nothing. It's just as hateful an attitude as the German's, but it's cloaked in "nice", religious reasons.
xander7ful 2 months ago
What a joke. He gave no explanation as to why the objection was allegedly incorrect, merely an assertion. Is this what passes as critical thought in religious circles?
rohanwotan2 1 year ago
@rohanwotan2 yeah you are totally right I was hoping for some answers, well that uncharacteristic of JP, usually he is very direct.
MrHotgeneration1001 4 months ago
@rohanwotan2 what may had happened here is that this is just a part of a longer sermon that develops the subject further
MrHotgeneration1001 4 months ago
@MrHotgeneration1001
Oh, you mean it's taken out of context? Gee, I've never heard that one before when a believer finds the doctrines of their faith embarrassing and in conflict with morality. The problem in this case would be this vid is put up by this jokers own organization. So, all the context they wanted all of us to have is here.
rohanwotan2 4 months ago
@rohanwotan2 hey chill out - I'm with you - they should have done better job, definitely. Do you think he intentionally avoided the subject?
MrHotgeneration1001 4 months ago
@MrHotgeneration1001 and most importantly what is the answer? how do you reconcile these 2 things? what do you think?
MrHotgeneration1001 4 months ago
I see the point when is said that is a blasphemy taking out parts of the bible we don't like. That's the wholly book of christian nation. But I find it disgusting when christians justify evil things in the bible, when they say that god allows them to hate and wish evil to other people and that this is justice. God's justice. This is awful.
zikezc 2 years ago
@zikezc Yes, the Bible actually says to love your enemies and your neighbors. In the New Covenant that we live under now, LOVE is the key!
HDell1994 1 year ago
@HDell1994
So, how do you merge it with the "old covenant" which says a lot of different things? Oh, wait, you don't, you just cherry pick. I understand...
zikezc 1 year ago
@zikezc No, in the Old Testament, so many Gentiles were murdered by God as an act of his judgement on them. And you must understand that, even today, when sinners die, that is an act of God's judgement and they will eventually go to Hell. We are to love Gentiles and Jews alike today, because as a result of Christ, they all can be saved. But in the Old Testament, ONLY the Jews were God's people.
HDell1994 1 year ago
@zikezc And please don't ask questions in ignorance, assuming that you know the answers when you actually don't at all. It's arrogant and isn't the brightest thing to do.
HDell1994 1 year ago
@HDell1994
I wouldn't bother to waste my time to respond you if you didn't call me ignorant. Yes I know that Yahweh was a god only for jews. I don't see any reason why today it wouldn't be the same. There is no way to merge god's justice and god's mercy. God could have found a better way to work all this out, he is so human to be a god. I will not bother to waste a single second to reply to your comment. Good luck.
zikezc 1 year ago
@zikezc Also, to respond to "when they say that god allows them to hate and wish evil to other people and that this is justice." First of all, Christians shouldn't say that because that isn't a part of the new covenant. BUT the Jews on the other hand didn't wish EVIL on their opponents, they wished JUDGEMENT on their opponents for THEIR evil. And yes, proper judgement on the wicked IS justice and we all would be in Hell if Christ hadn't died in sinner's place.
HDell1994 1 year ago
This was a fantastic sermon to hear. I wish pastor could post the whole thing online. It was astounding.
ForGodAlone 3 years ago 6