@GeeKayKayGee I could say the same thing about our side winning over atheism. I guess there are no real winners or losers in this debate. Just mines changed on both sides.
@LordShadrach You could say that but it wouldn't be true. Demographically non-believers are increasing as population while those claiming a religious belief diminish. Those making claims for Young Earth Creationism or counter to the Evolutionary Theory, have been swept from the field their arguments torn to shreds in every encounter. Fact has trounced Faith. The end.
@GeeKayKayGee Where do you get your figures from? It seems you are pulling them out of nowhere. You cannot just say belief is dwindling like that. Also, there have been arguments for creationism so convincing that it won people over. Lastly, since when was religion limited to faith?
@LordShadrach An American Religious Identification Survey released in March 2009 indicated that 15% of Americans – roughly 45 million – "say they have no religion" (up from 8.2% in 1990), while an estimated 1.6 million self-identify as atheists (up from 900,000 in 2001).
@GeeKayKayGee Oh really? What about certain parts of the world where religion has held a strong hold like South America? Also religion is thriving in both Asia and Africa.
@LordShadrach I've not said religion has vanished from the world, far from it. South America? Surely you recognize that religion in the USA is as strong or stronger than in South America. Again, I'm not claiming that religion is dead, I'm claiming and some numbers back me up, that religion is losing ground.
@LordShadrach Please provide an example of religion without faith (if that is what you are saying).
The faith of some may be bolstered by arguments for creationism but to convert people from atheism to christianity is a bold claim. Evidence please, aside from personal testimony claims.
@GeeKayKayGee You put faith in a lot more things than just religion. You put faith in your car that it will start when you crank it. You put faith in the chef who prepares your food that he or she cooks it well, you put faith that your significant other is loyal in loving you, you put faith that when you are in surgery that the doctors are operating on you good.. You put faith that the politicians you vote in office does what he campaigned to do in the first place. Anything else?
@LordShadrach For each of your examples belief is justified, facts and evidence give one reason to trust that an expected result will occur. There are ways to empirically test for an expected result and in each example given the tests always justify the belief. To have faith without evidence is to lie to oneself.
@GeeKayKayGee Not always, Let us look at those same examples again: there has been malpractice with doctors, there has also been times when a chef cooked the food wrong, there have been times when lovers have been disloyal, politicians have been known to lie and lastly, there will always be a time when your car will not start.
@LordShadrach Well that is true in Europe. The nation of Sweden is losing numbers badly because everything is secularized. I blame that on the alignment of Church and State. However, the Catholics in Sweden have been doing very well, if not increasing. Wanna know why? Catholicism is NOT involved the the government over there. I believe the reason that religion is losing ground is its too involved in the government for its own good.
@LordShadrach I believe that religion is losing ground because more and more people are able to hear those voices that point out the flawed claims of religious dogma and scripture. More and more people are recognizing religion for the leech that it is, recognizing that religion takes and harms more than it gives or helps.
@GeeKayKayGee 1. Religion is taken out of context at times. The so called contradictions can be explained. 2. The problem is that the violent fundies are getting noticed more and as a result the good religious people are being drowned out by these hateful wackos. Its sad if you think about it. These bad apples are getting all the attention and the good ones like me are getting drowned out because of those maniacs who use religion as an excuse to hurt people.
@LordShadrach "Religion is taken out of context at times. The so called contradictions can be explained." Huh?
"2. The problem is that the violent fundies are getting noticed more and as a result the good religious people are being drowned out by these hateful wackos."
The problem is your so called good religious people don't make themselves heard, you don't stand up and shout out "I condemn you for your actions and claims and I stand in opposition against you."
@GeeKayKayGee I will address number two. I will admit that is a MAJOR problem from people of theistic belief. The fact we do not stand up against those wackos just upsets me. You know for a fact I cannot stand Phelps and the WBC. Same goes for that Robertson guy. I cannot stand either of them. Also, when we do speak out against them, Atheists like you pull this no true scotman on us and then make it hard for us to distance ourselves from the ones giving religion a bad name!
@LordShadrach Instead of trying to distance yourself with "those aren't real christians' how about taking on the burden with "I am also a christian and your actions, statements, claims, offend me. I will stand with those you attack, not because I am one of them but because I represent the loving christianity that is the majority!" Where are you, where are the other christians, standing against those whom you deem to be 'not real christians'?
@GeeKayKayGee You have a point there. Those statements you made do strike chords in me when it comes to the cowardice the good loving Christians have shown in the face of these wackos who attack Atheists, Nonchristians, Homosexuals, Etc. I should have told you this sooner, but I was planning a video where sending Dawkins hatemail was not helping matters nor is it acceptable behavior.
@GeeKayKayGee You can google the messageboards and articles about her and you will find plenty defending her. I myself even posted something in defense which I will send to you in PM.
@LordShadrach Admittedly I've not followed too closely but to date I've not heard any great out pouring, and shout from thousands saying "That's wrong". Other that is than from those who claim to be of the atheistic bent.
On the other hand RI State Rep Peter Palumbo Calls Jessica Ahlquist 'Evil Little Thing on a radio talk show.
@LordShadrach Again, belief with or without evidence. Belief that by praying to god you can survive swallowing a deadly poison is Faith, faith without evidence. Belief that a doctor can save your life with open heart surgery, is belief with evidence, no faith required. 1000's of such operations show that no faith is required. Will some die? Of course they will but the belief was still justified.
@GeeKayKayGee No, you put your faith in your doctor to do his job right. You again ignore the fact there have been in fact malpractice suits where a doctor did something wrong. Then you assume that people who swallow poison will be fine. I am quite sure that even a religious person knows NOT to take that poison.
@LordShadrach Why do you call it faith? How do you define 'faith'? Surely you can see that there is a difference between an expectation of outcome that is based on evidence and that has no evidence.
@GeeKayKayGee How can you call it without evidence? Do you not know that even if we do not see the evidence now, that there is a good possibility we will see it in the future?
@GeeKayKayGee The fact there could be something much more massive than you or I could realize when it comes to where we come from and what we are doing. Then again that is in the future.
@LordShadrach Until there is evidence there is no reason to believe in any proposition. To date all the evidence we have suggests that the universe and our place in it, is all the result of natural processes with zero evidence for any kind of conscious guiding hand or god.
Sure some god like being, even the christian god could show up tomorrow and provide evidence of his godhood but until then, there is no reason to believe in that proposition over any of the others that lack fact
The debates stopped because they ran out of topics. Both groups eventually started in-fighting and basically cannibalized themselves.
GeraldWatercrest 1 month ago
You gotta respect a man who has that many ice cubes with his water !!
I agree with you, things are definitely not nearly as intense at it was a couple of years ago
GermanExceptionalism 1 month ago 2
you rock man good to see you
lGaming 1 month ago
We won. God is gone. Game over man, game over.
GeeKayKayGee 1 month ago
@GeeKayKayGee I could say the same thing about our side winning over atheism. I guess there are no real winners or losers in this debate. Just mines changed on both sides.
LordShadrach 1 month ago
@LordShadrach You could say that but it wouldn't be true. Demographically non-believers are increasing as population while those claiming a religious belief diminish. Those making claims for Young Earth Creationism or counter to the Evolutionary Theory, have been swept from the field their arguments torn to shreds in every encounter. Fact has trounced Faith. The end.
GeeKayKayGee 1 month ago
@GeeKayKayGee Where do you get your figures from? It seems you are pulling them out of nowhere. You cannot just say belief is dwindling like that. Also, there have been arguments for creationism so convincing that it won people over. Lastly, since when was religion limited to faith?
LordShadrach 1 month ago
@LordShadrach An American Religious Identification Survey released in March 2009 indicated that 15% of Americans – roughly 45 million – "say they have no religion" (up from 8.2% in 1990), while an estimated 1.6 million self-identify as atheists (up from 900,000 in 2001).
GeeKayKayGee 1 month ago
@GeeKayKayGee That is just in America. You forgot the rest of the world.
LordShadrach 1 month ago
@LordShadrach In the rest of the world the numbers support my claim even better.
GeeKayKayGee 1 month ago
@GeeKayKayGee Oh really? What about certain parts of the world where religion has held a strong hold like South America? Also religion is thriving in both Asia and Africa.
LordShadrach 1 month ago
@LordShadrach I've not said religion has vanished from the world, far from it. South America? Surely you recognize that religion in the USA is as strong or stronger than in South America. Again, I'm not claiming that religion is dead, I'm claiming and some numbers back me up, that religion is losing ground.
GeeKayKayGee 1 month ago
@LordShadrach Please provide an example of religion without faith (if that is what you are saying).
The faith of some may be bolstered by arguments for creationism but to convert people from atheism to christianity is a bold claim. Evidence please, aside from personal testimony claims.
GeeKayKayGee 1 month ago
@GeeKayKayGee You put faith in a lot more things than just religion. You put faith in your car that it will start when you crank it. You put faith in the chef who prepares your food that he or she cooks it well, you put faith that your significant other is loyal in loving you, you put faith that when you are in surgery that the doctors are operating on you good.. You put faith that the politicians you vote in office does what he campaigned to do in the first place. Anything else?
LordShadrach 1 month ago
@LordShadrach For each of your examples belief is justified, facts and evidence give one reason to trust that an expected result will occur. There are ways to empirically test for an expected result and in each example given the tests always justify the belief. To have faith without evidence is to lie to oneself.
GeeKayKayGee 1 month ago
@GeeKayKayGee Not always, Let us look at those same examples again: there has been malpractice with doctors, there has also been times when a chef cooked the food wrong, there have been times when lovers have been disloyal, politicians have been known to lie and lastly, there will always be a time when your car will not start.
LordShadrach 1 month ago
@LordShadrach Well that is true in Europe. The nation of Sweden is losing numbers badly because everything is secularized. I blame that on the alignment of Church and State. However, the Catholics in Sweden have been doing very well, if not increasing. Wanna know why? Catholicism is NOT involved the the government over there. I believe the reason that religion is losing ground is its too involved in the government for its own good.
LordShadrach 1 month ago
@LordShadrach I believe that religion is losing ground because more and more people are able to hear those voices that point out the flawed claims of religious dogma and scripture. More and more people are recognizing religion for the leech that it is, recognizing that religion takes and harms more than it gives or helps.
GeeKayKayGee 1 month ago
@GeeKayKayGee 1. Religion is taken out of context at times. The so called contradictions can be explained. 2. The problem is that the violent fundies are getting noticed more and as a result the good religious people are being drowned out by these hateful wackos. Its sad if you think about it. These bad apples are getting all the attention and the good ones like me are getting drowned out because of those maniacs who use religion as an excuse to hurt people.
LordShadrach 1 month ago
@LordShadrach "Religion is taken out of context at times. The so called contradictions can be explained." Huh?
"2. The problem is that the violent fundies are getting noticed more and as a result the good religious people are being drowned out by these hateful wackos."
The problem is your so called good religious people don't make themselves heard, you don't stand up and shout out "I condemn you for your actions and claims and I stand in opposition against you."
GeeKayKayGee 1 month ago
@GeeKayKayGee I will address number two. I will admit that is a MAJOR problem from people of theistic belief. The fact we do not stand up against those wackos just upsets me. You know for a fact I cannot stand Phelps and the WBC. Same goes for that Robertson guy. I cannot stand either of them. Also, when we do speak out against them, Atheists like you pull this no true scotman on us and then make it hard for us to distance ourselves from the ones giving religion a bad name!
LordShadrach 1 month ago
@LordShadrach Instead of trying to distance yourself with "those aren't real christians' how about taking on the burden with "I am also a christian and your actions, statements, claims, offend me. I will stand with those you attack, not because I am one of them but because I represent the loving christianity that is the majority!" Where are you, where are the other christians, standing against those whom you deem to be 'not real christians'?
GeeKayKayGee 1 month ago
@GeeKayKayGee You have a point there. Those statements you made do strike chords in me when it comes to the cowardice the good loving Christians have shown in the face of these wackos who attack Atheists, Nonchristians, Homosexuals, Etc. I should have told you this sooner, but I was planning a video where sending Dawkins hatemail was not helping matters nor is it acceptable behavior.
LordShadrach 1 month ago
@LordShadrach I should like to know where are the christians standing up to defend Jessica Ahlquist.
GeeKayKayGee 1 month ago
@GeeKayKayGee You can google the messageboards and articles about her and you will find plenty defending her. I myself even posted something in defense which I will send to you in PM.
LordShadrach 1 month ago
@LordShadrach Admittedly I've not followed too closely but to date I've not heard any great out pouring, and shout from thousands saying "That's wrong". Other that is than from those who claim to be of the atheistic bent.
On the other hand RI State Rep Peter Palumbo Calls Jessica Ahlquist 'Evil Little Thing on a radio talk show.
GeeKayKayGee 1 month ago
@LordShadrach Again, belief with or without evidence. Belief that by praying to god you can survive swallowing a deadly poison is Faith, faith without evidence. Belief that a doctor can save your life with open heart surgery, is belief with evidence, no faith required. 1000's of such operations show that no faith is required. Will some die? Of course they will but the belief was still justified.
GeeKayKayGee 1 month ago
@GeeKayKayGee No, you put your faith in your doctor to do his job right. You again ignore the fact there have been in fact malpractice suits where a doctor did something wrong. Then you assume that people who swallow poison will be fine. I am quite sure that even a religious person knows NOT to take that poison.
LordShadrach 1 month ago
@LordShadrach Why do you call it faith? How do you define 'faith'? Surely you can see that there is a difference between an expectation of outcome that is based on evidence and that has no evidence.
GeeKayKayGee 1 month ago
@GeeKayKayGee Faith is another word for trust. faith noun 1.
confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
LordShadrach 1 month ago
@LordShadrach 2.
belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
GeeKayKayGee 1 month ago
@GeeKayKayGee And what if this hypothesis was not covered by fact?
LordShadrach 1 month ago
@LordShadrach Then it is 'faith without evidence' and as such it is not rationally justified or justifiable. Faith without evidence is irrational.
GeeKayKayGee 1 month ago
@GeeKayKayGee How can you call it without evidence? Do you not know that even if we do not see the evidence now, that there is a good possibility we will see it in the future?
LordShadrach 1 month ago
@LordShadrach I'm lost. I have no idea what you're speaking of. What are we going to see in the future?
GeeKayKayGee 1 month ago
@GeeKayKayGee The fact there could be something much more massive than you or I could realize when it comes to where we come from and what we are doing. Then again that is in the future.
LordShadrach 1 month ago
@LordShadrach Until there is evidence there is no reason to believe in any proposition. To date all the evidence we have suggests that the universe and our place in it, is all the result of natural processes with zero evidence for any kind of conscious guiding hand or god.
Sure some god like being, even the christian god could show up tomorrow and provide evidence of his godhood but until then, there is no reason to believe in that proposition over any of the others that lack fact
GeeKayKayGee 1 month ago
@LordShadrach Actually... What? When is any hypothesis 'not covered by fact'?
An example please?
GeeKayKayGee 1 month ago
@GeeKayKayGee When is there one without fact?
LordShadrach 1 month ago