RON PAUL 2012 If everyone really knew how jacked up our government is and the bad ass record RON PAUL has as a TEXAS CONGRESSMAN, 20 plus years of being the CONSTITUTION CHAMPION, His just the only real one running for us, everyone else is for the Establishment !!!! TEA PARTY, His has the most support from the TROOPS more than all of the other people including Obama put together,, So I hope the people listen to who they want for a COMMANDER AND CHIEF. Because He will bring the Troops home
Oh please the Republican have the audacity to turn a blind eye on America's poor. It seems that when Bush Jr. heard the cries of financial help from big insurance companies, and Banks the Republicans backed him up. Meanwhile, the Democrats pointed to the poor who were heavily taxed to bail out Insurance companies & Banks, fund the Iraq War as many died because they cant afford healthcare coverage. The Republicans didn't care, they blew it. Thank God for the Democrats. IT ABOUT DAMN TIME
And there you go again with Liberals vs. Conservatives. If that's what you want, then you can't ignore the conservative Log Cabin Republicans....cherry picker.
I said nothing about Republicans or Democrats. I'm talking about liberals vs Christians. So, no, it's not "there I go AGAIN". I've never stopped so there is no "again".
See, I told you...you're blindly playing high & almighty.
"No. I never posted any hate messages."
Oh yes you did. Now you're really lying. And you really don't think posting your comment in saying, "...but that doesn't make being gay right."....is hate???
"Telling you what the Bible says isn't me playing 'high & almighty'"
Uh, imposing on what you think the Bible says is playing high & almighty. That's imposing your personal interpretations on Gay Christians. And that's hate too.
"Uh, imposing on what you think the Bible says is playing high & almighty."
First of all, no, it's not. Second, I am not telling what "what I think the Bible says", I am telling you what it says.
"And that's hate too"
Far from it. You have no concept what hate is. You seem to have been brainwashed by too many liberals. I'm not a liberal so I don't just lie about things like that.
Really? Even the Seventh Day Adventists will tell other Christians "what the bible say", ever thought about that. It's called interpretations, it's not what the bible says.
No the Bible doesn't specifically call out Homosexuals as wrong. And God is not against being a Homosexual. If that were the case, then God is against Heterosexuals too.
"Would you say stealing is wrong? Would you say murder is wrong? Would you say that idolatry is wrong?"
Yes in that it affects the lives of others, but how does a committed loving relationship directly harm others, or you gigman?
Yes, the Bible does say that man should not sleep with a man as he would a woman. That is what homosexuality is. Saying he would be against heterosexuals if he was is the most ignorant statement you have said to me.
Why do you post hateful statements? Why do you hate? You should be ashamed for having hate in your heart.
What? Seriously if you go back into the comments from your last video on the Phelps family....yeah there was a lot of hate message coming from you. Don't lie.
Why are you changing the subject? Yes, that is wrong but that doesn't make being gay right.
No, I never posted any hate messages. Don't tell me I lie when you make up things. Like I said, you can't point out one thing I have posted that was out of hate.
Listen to the video. Obama said, "I never said troops should be withdrawn." He is lying. That was part of his campaign. Do you not remember that? He's a liar.
See? You are still avoiding commenting properly on my links, and responding too providing proof.
I also noticed you dropped you're "war as a whole" resort arguement.
In response to you're next arguement,anyone should know that part of obama's campaign was much more then just a "withdraw" , we first have to get afghanistan of its knees and hand it over to the local military, and then we can begin bringing troops home.
Why do you focus on such a small part? beacuse its easy to attack? tell me.
"Why do you focus on such a small part? beacuse its easy to attack? tell me."
Because that is what Obama and his supporters did. First Obama said they would be brought home immediately. Then he said 3 months. Then 6 months. then 18 months. Now he said we can't set a timeline. He knew from the beginning what was going on and what had to be done, and now he is doing the exact same thing that Bush was criticized for by the same people who are supporting him.
And now you are resorting to responding to small quotes again.
Look, everything in that comment is simply what you said when we started this arguement. You have provided no proof that obama "knew" what was going on, and the links I have sent you (which you are avoiding) easily shows that the situation in afghistan quickly got worse in 09'
Simply put, any intellegent person would understand why obama has too change his plans. You already know the situation has gotten worse. The proof is there.
"And now you are resorting to responding to small quotes again."
I have to for you to understand them.
"You have provided no proof that obama 'knew' what was going on"
I don't have to. If he didn't know what was going on, if he wasn't lying, he shouldn't have been elected to start with. Why would we elect a commander in chief that doesn't even know what is going on? Either way, no one should have voted for him.
I think its just so you can skip most of the comment and only respond to part of it. There are alot of people who do this, and even worse, actually take quotes out of context.
Yes you do. You are saying that obama knew the situation in afghistan was going to get worse. You are saying he knew that there was going to be an 100% death increase in 09.
You have to provide proof for this.
Lets be realistic, after the fairly minimal deaths before 09, I dont think anyone could forsee this.
No, I do not have to. Either he lied or he is not capable of being president. You say he didn't know what was going on so you esentually are saying that he is not fit to be president. On the other hand, he says in this very video that he never said that troops should not be withdrawn. He is in fact lying when he says that because he did say it.
There has NOT been a 100% increase in deaths in the war. But yet, we are sending "more" troops to the war.
I never said you took anything out of context. Look again.
Look, you are saying that obama knew what the future would be like. The death increase in afghistan happened over the course of 2009, it didnt happen before obama became president, it happened after. No one could have known. Get it right.
Also, this very video also shows obama saying we have to help afghistan before we think about wIthdrawing (that's what he's getting at).
Lastly, there HAS been a 100% death increase in afghistan.
No, I did not say he knew what the future wold be like. I said he knew what the war was like. The situation as a whole is getting better yet he wants to send more troops over to the war. I have it right. You just aren't understanding.
Lastly, there has been far fewer deaths in the war. Yet he wants more troops overseas. He's a liar and you just don't want to admit it.
You are now starting the irrelevant "war as a whole" arguement again. We have been talking about afghistan from the beginning (I cant keep reminding you), and the situation there has gotten worse over 2009. This is why he is redeploying and sending over more troops to afghanistan. Just look at the proof. You are confusing one thing with another.
In afghistan, no. You are talking about the whole war again. He want more troops not only overseas, IN AFGHANISTAN. Get it right.
No, I am talking about this video. I'm talking about what Obama is talking about. I'm talking about him lying. I'm talking about the "war". Obama is talking about the "war". The war hasn't gotten worse. Obama is a liar. You can't say otherwise.
You only started talking about this video a few comments back.
Look at our very FIRST comments, and notice how they are about the situation in afghanistan. Look at all me comments and notice how they are about afghanistan.
Now look at you're RECENT comments, and how you have changed you're arguement several times, obviously showing you have nothing to say on the original debate.
My comments have always been on the war. This video was posted by me. Pay attention.
You have proven nothing. When he says, "I've never said troops should be withdrawn", he is lying. He DID say they should be withdrawn. If you don't know this, do America a favor and don't vote because you don't keep up with it enough to know who to vote for.
You're early comments were on the situation in afghanistan and "how it has not gotten worse". Really, ever since I sent you those links you're arguements have been tumbling all over the place.
I have proven that the situation in afghistan did infact get worse, as the links showed, aswell as showing clear reasons why obama had to change his plans and send over more troops.
You fail too see this and carry on with "obama lied" with no credible proof.
Sorry, for not responding for a while gigman, just got back from Hawaii celebrating a Gay Marriage between Gay Christians. It was awesome. Anyway, where were we?
And what of you gigman? You claim yourself to be "Christian" and yet advocate hate towards tax-pay American Gay citizens who mean no harm to you....??? Christian indeed
gigman contradicts himself a lot of times. He's blaming President Obama as a Socialist in the Administration's Healthcare Reform Plan, and yet tell me that the poor should seek medicare.....which medicare is definitely backed up by tax payers. Isn't that some form of Socialism?
It's funny how you keep saying that I contradict myself but you can't point out where I do. I never said that the poor should seek Medicare. I said that is it available to them.
Bringing the american troops back isnt somthing Obama can do over night, it needs careful planning, the most respected general's even say that afganistan needs more troops before this is over.
We cant just put all the american troops on a plane, leave afganistan on its knees and let the taliban roam freely to kill more civilians and distrupt the country. Really.
But that is WHY is he not bringing back the american troops RIGHT NOW.
Everyone is saying obama "lied" but this is a difficult task .Many people dont know the first thing about what is happening, they just speak as if bringing back troops is a overnight task.
Give him time, and he will "at the least" bring back most of the troops.
He has too, if he is to bring back the american troops home, he needs to train the afghanistan's military to fight the taliban. However, the american military over there right now is currently fighting, so he has to bring new troops to do the training.
Really. Do you know the slightest thing about what is going on over there?
Can you not see that I have been agreeing with you? Yes, I know much more about what is going on over there than most people. I understand more than most of the idiots who believed him and voted for him.
I see you agree with me on some things, but I still think obama hasnt done any "lying" what so ever.
There are good reasons for why he is not bringing back the american troops right now and why he is deploying more in afganistan, as I have stated. He cannot fufill his promise right now given the stakes in afghaistan.
He has lied from the beginning. He first said that if he became president, that troops would be brought home immediately. He later changes that to within 3 months. Then it became 6 months. Just before election, he said within 18 months. Now, after being elected, he says there should not be a timeline. That is what he should have said to start with, but he knew that there would be fools that would vote for him so he lied.
If someone says "I will go home tommorow" and then realizes that his home is demolished the next day (thus he would not be able to go home) he would not be lying, it would just be a change of situation.
No, stakes have not changed. People like Obama have just changed what they have told you about them. Liberals lie about all of this to get you to vote for them. After they are elected, the story changes.
My point is this. You make it sound as if it is Bush' fault that we are at war. You also make it sound that Obama couldn't have known that he had to "clean it up" after he was elected.
Point is, Obama either lied or he is just plain stupid. I don't think he is that stupid. Only the people who voted for him.
He did START america's assault on afganistan by sending 40'000 american and NATO troops. I understand this was a reponse to the 911 bombings, but if bush didnt jump the gun, america wouldent be in this mess.
Like I said before (with good reasons), the situation in afghaistan has changed, gotten worse, and anyone who reaserched this would understand why obama had to change his plans for afghanistan.
He did no "jump the gun". If anything, he waited too long. We had to do what we did.
Nothing has changed. Only what you know about the situation. Obama never had intentions to pull the troops. Only to say what he needed to to get elected. He out right lied.
The taliban is adapting to america's tactics, and little progress has been made at all, just look at my facts a few comments down.
I have already stated GOOD facts of why obama is FORCED to change his plans, but you still keep on saying "obama lied" without any facts as if its implanted in you're brain.
If you did you're reaserch you would understand what is actually going on in afghaistan, which you obvously did not do!
It's you that obviously does not know what is going on over there. You only believe the lies that the Obama administration and the liberal left are telling you. You obviously did not know what was going on over the last several years. You believe Obama's lies and state them as if they are facts. You don't realize that we have made great progress over the last several years. But you keep believing the lies you hear.
Oh my goodness. You have stated no facts for me to knock down. I know what is going on in Afghanistan. What you said is going on there is and has been for years. You are just now discovering it, but that does not mean that is has not been going on there for years.
I have never said we should withdraw. I said that Obama lied when he said that he has never said they should be withdrawn.
And again, no, it has not gotten worse. Only the information you have gotten has. You just haven't known what was going on over there until Obama and his lefties have told you.
So you are actually saying that it is not getting worse.... even with the taliban drugs trade booming, even with the american generals saying it will be YEARS before real progress can be made, even with america's military death rate getting even higher and higher..... and all you can say is "oh, the situation aint worse"
I'm saying that obviously you didn't know it has been this way. It's not something that has just developed. You just haven't been informed up until now because your news source never told you the whole truth until it was something that would help make Obama look better. I'm not denying how bad it is there.
Im an regular watcher of 24 news, and I know how things were, and how things have developed.
You are saying that the situation in afghaistan has stayed the same, which is so obviusly not the case, and until you realise its getting worse and worse, there's nothing else I can do.
And, what evidence do you have the my news source (which you have no idea what it is) is trying to help make obama better?
No, I did not say I "how bad it has gotten". I am saying it is as bad as you say. The problem is, you don't realize how bad it was. What is "24 news"? That tells me nothing.
Again, if you think that things were better before we went there than they are now, you were misinformed.
My statement does NOT contradict itself. What part does that contradict. The part that you made up about me?
Yes, you get your news from Communist News Network. That explains it. I guess you think that Bush started the war. I guess you think that Iraqi citizens want us out. I guess you think we are at war with Iraq. I guess you think we just recently sent solders to Afghanistan. I can see now how you have been so misinformed.
You are saying that if hasnt changed at all, meaning you are saying that it has stayed bad all these years. That means, that if what you say is true, US has made ZERO progress in aghaistan, which is idiotic.
Communist news network?
Its Cable news network. I also watch BBC and SKY. When did I say bush started the war?
When did I say Iraqi citizens what "us" out?
What did I say.... ANY of the statements you have said.
You are making stupid assumptions. Infact, that is all you have been doing.
I know what CNN stands for. I was just making a point. One that I guess went over your head. I also am not making any assumptions. I didn't say "you are" I said "I guess". I was pointing out that people who watch these stations and these only think this way. Instead of watching stations that give you only part of the story, try talking to people who have been over there. You will learn much more.
You made an un-funny joke and a huge list of assumptions.
You said "I guess" which means you are guessing, or should I say, ASSUMING.
You have just contradicted you're self, again.
And, I find hard to beleive that an soldier who has served in afghanistan would say "the situation has not changed" beacuse when these respected US army generals come up to the microphone, the information they say, aswell as the news, internet or any expert, they will say the same thing - "its getting worse".
I haven't made any joke. I have yet to contradict myself. Why do you keep saying that I have contradicted myself when you can't even tell me what I have contradicted myself on.
You need to talk to a few solders. You have been so out of touch. It's time for you to learn a little about what has been going on over the last 8 years. I bet you were ignorant enough to vote for Obama.
So what, that "communist news network" wasnt a joke? You were being serious?
Where have you contradicted you're self?
You said that the war in afghaistan is not getting worse, its staying the same.
The problem? You are basically saying that after all these years, the situation is staying the same, which IS WORSE. You are basically saying US has made no progress what so ever. This is where you have contradicted you're self.
I have my sources, I have learnt what is going on, You, have not.
I have not contradicted myself. You think I have because you have assumed too much. It has not "stayed the same". I just said it hasn't gotten worse. I never said that the U.S. has made no progress. But you have, which is wrong. So, you have not known what has been going on over there. I know you have your sources, but they are poor sources. You judge me wrong when you say I haven't learned what is going on. I obviously have known longer than you have.
Therefore implying that things have stayed the same. Therefore implying that the US has made no progress. Condradicting you're self some more, I see?
Also, You KNOW NOTHING about my sources, you have stated no proof that my sources back obama in any way, and you have only commented on CNN, which I dont even get much of my info from. See? You keep on making guesses and assumptions, nothing else.
Again, I have yet to contradict myself. No, I said that things are not worse than they were. I said that the conditions over there, you did not know about until after Obama needed to send troops over there.
I know you sources have not told you the whole truth or you would have known what it was like over there before Obama wanted to send troops over. So, no, I have not assumed anything. Only commented on what you have said.
Well, You said clearly "the situation has not changed", so you have just contradicted you're self again. I can quote the entire comment if you want. And, I knew about the situation before and know what is happening now. Infact, I can easily create a timeline of the entire afghistan war if you want, and maybe that will show you how bad it has gotten.
And, you still havent stated stated ANY proof that my sources are "withholding the truth" or back obama. So, until you do, you are ASSUMING.
Look bud, you STILL havent commented on me quoting you saying "the situation has not changed" so quit saying "I have not contradicted myself" like a headless chicken and look at what you said!
I didnt know? I stated (back when we started this debate) The situation in afghistan, and you said "that is what's happening before and now" therefore agreeing with me on these matters.
You still havent stated proof that ANY of my sources are doing any of you're accusations.
"Look bud"? Are you getting frustrated by my proving you wrong that you have to call me "bud"?
What am I supposed to say to your incorrect statement. I agreed with you that it was bad over there. I agreed with you that what is going on now has been going on for a long time. I did not say it has stayed the same. I don't have to prove your sources were anything when you already have. You have proven that you didn't know what was going on before recently.
YOU SAID "no, the situation has not changed", and its obvious you're avoiding commenting on this quote beacuse you know I have proven you wrong, you just dont want to admite it.
Yes, you do have to prove my sources are "withholding truth" if you are going to make statements like that. If you dont, they are just assumptions.
So now you're actually saying the situation in afghanistan is improving? please kill me now.
I have not proven that my news source is withholding information. You are simply dodging the request, so ill ask you again, do YOU have ANY proof that my sources are "backing obama" or any of you're other claims? hmmm?
In some sense, it IS getting worse. You see, alot has happened in the time obama said he would bring the troops back home to the time he said there has too be a planning process.
Even if you look on wikipedia, the information is so clear. And, like I said, I know what was happening before, and now.
You have said nothing that makes you're "obama lied!" statement any more credible.
Do you understand what "Wikipedia" is? You should not take anything on there as the whole truth.
"You have said nothing that makes you're "obama lied!" statement any more credible."
Try listening to the video again. He said that he was going to bring the troops home "immediately". Then he said "3 months", then he said "6 months" then "18 months", now he said we can't make a time line. He has lied from the beginning. And people were dumb enough to vote for him.
I never said everything on wikipedia is true, but most of its facts are 100% and reliable.
But I have already said that the situation in afghaistan has changed.
If someone says "I will travel by plane tonight!" and then realises their flight is delayed (thus they would not go on the plane) that would not be lying!"
And, just have you know, every american president would have lied at least a few times.
I never said everything on wikipedia is true, but most of its facts are 100% and reliable.
But I have already said that the situation in afghaistan has changed.
If someone says "I will travel by plane tonight!" and then realises their flight is delayed (thus they would not go on the plane) that would not be lying!"
And, just have you know, every american president would have lied at least a few times.
We will keep on going around in circles unless you provide proof that obama knew what it was like and that my sources (which I only listed a few) is backing obama.
I don't have to provide proof of anything. Either he lied about or it's more proof that he is too ignorant to have been elected as president to start with. Which means anyone who voted for him is too ignorant to be able to vote.
No, I do not. Either you are saying that he did know and therefore, he lied, or you are saying he didn't know and was not qualified for the job. So, which one is it?
You are limiting it to two options (Obviously,Two options which make obama look bad)
Like I said, the situation in afghistan has took a turn for the worse, hence why obama needs to change his plans for bringing troops back home. If you have seen the interviews with american army chief's and generals (recent ones) you'll know this is what they say.
Now, ill ask you again. Give me proof, or everything you have said is INVALID.
There are only 2 options. Either he did know or he didn't.
I know you say it has taken a turn for the worse, but that is because you do not realize how it was before Obama was in office because you were misinformed.
Now, there is no proof to give you since you are wrong about the situations.
The situation has not gotten worse. I never said that it has stayed the same. I only said that it has not gotten worse. Don't believe Obama's lies. You just didn't know how bad it was before he got in. No, I'm not the one who is misinformed. You are the one who did not know how bad it was before we went over there.
You have provided no more evidence than you are wanting me to provide.
Well, you did say it stayed the same, and then vaugely said "I only meant it in the sense it has not gotten worse". So, was is it? are you saying that it has gotten better? Please tell me.
And new you are saying that I need to provide evidence. Really, you are the one who is saying (completely certain, too) that My sources are backing obama and that obama lied. I am asking for proof, which you are STILL refusing to give.
No, I never said it stayed the same. You only assumed that I thought it stayed the same when I said it hadn't gotten worse.
Yes, we are going around in circles because you do not know what is going on. You ask me for sources yet you refuse to give any of your own. Talk to some people who have been over there and learn. Don't listen to liars like Obama who only wants to be elected president and doesn't care about the U.S.
Source: People who have been there. You need to talk to them instead of believing anything that some random person puts on Wikipedia. In case you didn't know it, that is how Wikipedia works. But, on the other hand, people who have been there know what is going on. Obama either lies or doesn't know enough to be our president.
People who have been there would know about the experience and what its like, but when you are looking for a full picture, a news source with reporters interviewing respected military cheifs and generals, is a more reliable source.
And wikipedia does not work like that. Only the most well written and correct article on afghistan will be on the wop of the search engine (wikipedia has got editors) and those editors will correct the best ones with their own sources.
You are actually saying that a soldier on the front lines would be meeting a military cheif or general every day?
Generals and cheifs are not on the front lines. They hardly are. And besides, News people ACTUALLY interview people who know whats going, and they show these interviews.
I never said the editors are experts, I just said that wikipeida goes through a long process thats far from "random guys posting articles".
Generally, Wikipedia is 50% correct. Look it up for yourself.
Solders know a lot more about what is going on over there than you do. They also know a lot more about what is going on than 99% of the people you see posting these stories on stations such as CNN or BSNBC. It's best of you know your source. And news reporters aren't a great source on these types of things.
All I have found is a article on wikipedia saying "we can be wrong" and that they would correct mistakes quickly.
Anyway, If I want to know what the expereince and training is like, I would ask people who have been over there. But if I wasnt a full picture of the war, I would look at my sources, especially when they conduct interview with people who are REAL experts (aka military cheifs). You are talking about what they are, not what they do
And the military chiefs are saying the same thing that I am. 99% of the military personal are saying what I am saying. Because, that is where I am getting my information.
Really. The military chiefs are the ones saying afghistan needs more troops by 2011 if any progress is to be made, and then YOU are saying that they are the ones also saying that the situation is getting better (or not getting worse) which makes no utter sense.
They are also saying that the situation is getting worse.
If you look at the death rate, over 100 britsh soldiers have died this year, with a total of 200 british soldiers dead since 2001. The death rate went up almost 100% this year alone.
Are you saying thats not worse?
There is a reason that the UN is sending over more troops. As i've told you, as any military cheif has said in the news interviews, the situation has gotten worse.
If you cannt see that, there's nothing I can do for you.
There are a lot more British solders over there now, so of coarse there are going to be more casualties. How many have we lost this year? How many have we lost over the last 7 years?
Not really. Gordon sent british reforcments only recently. The biggest cause of deaths during 2008-09 is the road side bombs (IED's), another tactic that the taliban started using from 08. Most people blame this on the lack of armoured vechiles that are transporting our troops at the front lines.
You took a little quote from my entire comment, again.
Anyway, you said I contradicted myself. Please explain.
If you knew about the roadside bombs, then you would blame it on the lact of helicopters, equipment and armoured vechiles. Not on the silly excuse thats there's more troops, as that doesnt justify why there's 100% more deaths this year.
Get my facts right? you didnt even say what is wrong in the earlier comment. Nice try.
Listen, if there are 100 people living in a town, and an average of 1 per year dies, then 5 years later, there are 1000 people living in the same town and an average of 10 people die a year, we can't say something is wrong with that town since the death rate has risen. That would be the same thing.
Lets not forget that almost all the deaths were caused by road bombs (a weapon the taliban got there hands on recently, thanks to the drugs trade) so we cant just say "well, lets blame it on the increase in troops" we would have to blame it on the lack of helicopters, armoured vechiles.
It is pretty annoying that you would slag off the huge death increase with that terrible excuse.
How would you like it if obama came on television and said what you said.
It HAS increased. Its was just that the british death rate was a more fitting example of the ever "worse" situation that is going on in afghinistan.
You can hardly understand. You blame the massive increase in deaths on the extra soldiers, even tough these deaths could be easily avoided with an extra supply of helicopters. This isnt any everyday unavoidable car crash!!!
I am glad obama has changed his plans and provided more troops and supply's.
It has NOT increased. No, I am not blaming a massive increase in deaths on extra soldiers. It is you that can hardly understand.
Obama has not changed his plans for anything. Only what he is telling you what his plans are. You can't get away from it, either he has lied or he is not fit for presidency.
In 2009, it was 50% higher, as the death number was 310, which was the highest then any other year. Look at the facts. I can give you all the links and sources you want, just dont make arrogant claims.
And, if you are not blaming it on the extra soilders, then you must be blaming it on the road bombs. Which then means you are admitting these deaths were avoidable.
You are failing to see that the situation has gotten worse. Really. You are.
310 is not 50% higher than 155. It is 100% higher. Seeing that we have been there for about 7 years, if you are saying that 310 is the most we have had in one year, than we would not even have much more than 2,000 total deaths. Which we have had a lot more.
You are failing to see that you do not know what you are talking about. You still give wrong information.
I don't doubt that you can give links to what you are saying. There are lots of lies out there.
Its 50% compared to the actual total. 155 is 50% of 310. Put it what ever say you want.
As for the total deaths of americans since 2001-2009, it has been 940. I can give you the link. Its includes all the names of everyone who has died, and sources to the DOD website.
Really, get you're facts right.
You have to see that the huge death increase is worse. If you cannot, then you are stupid or avoiding trying to admite the situation has gotten worse.
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RON PAUL 2012 If everyone really knew how jacked up our government is and the bad ass record RON PAUL has as a TEXAS CONGRESSMAN, 20 plus years of being the CONSTITUTION CHAMPION, His just the only real one running for us, everyone else is for the Establishment !!!! TEA PARTY, His has the most support from the TROOPS more than all of the other people including Obama put together,, So I hope the people listen to who they want for a COMMANDER AND CHIEF. Because He will bring the Troops home
1we7the8people6 2 months ago
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Oh please the Republican have the audacity to turn a blind eye on America's poor. It seems that when Bush Jr. heard the cries of financial help from big insurance companies, and Banks the Republicans backed him up. Meanwhile, the Democrats pointed to the poor who were heavily taxed to bail out Insurance companies & Banks, fund the Iraq War as many died because they cant afford healthcare coverage. The Republicans didn't care, they blew it. Thank God for the Democrats. IT ABOUT DAMN TIME
jusitke07 1 year ago
@jusitke07 Thank God for the Democrats ruining the U.S.? Do you hate the U.S. that bad?
gigman7 1 year ago
@jusitke07 " the poor who were heavily taxed"
The poor are not taxed at all!!
gigman7 1 year ago
Hi gigman7,
The Healthcare Reform passed!!!!!!!! Yay for the Democrats.
jusitke07 1 year ago
38 states are about to sue Obama for breaking the Constitution. Yeah for for the Christians!
gigman7 1 year ago 5
And there you go again with Liberals vs. Conservatives. If that's what you want, then you can't ignore the conservative Log Cabin Republicans....cherry picker.
jusitke07 2 years ago
I said nothing about Republicans or Democrats. I'm talking about liberals vs Christians. So, no, it's not "there I go AGAIN". I've never stopped so there is no "again".
gigman7 2 years ago
"...but that doesn't make being gay right.."
See, I told you...you're blindly playing high & almighty.
"No. I never posted any hate messages."
Oh yes you did. Now you're really lying. And you really don't think posting your comment in saying, "...but that doesn't make being gay right."....is hate???
jusitke07 2 years ago
"See, I told you...you're blindly playing high & almighty."
Telling you what the Bible says isn't me playing "high & almighty".
Oh, no I'm not. You are the one lying. Saying what is right and wrong isn't hate. I guess you don't think anything is wrong.
gigman7 2 years ago
"Telling you what the Bible says isn't me playing 'high & almighty'"
Uh, imposing on what you think the Bible says is playing high & almighty. That's imposing your personal interpretations on Gay Christians. And that's hate too.
jusitke07 2 years ago
"Uh, imposing on what you think the Bible says is playing high & almighty."
First of all, no, it's not. Second, I am not telling what "what I think the Bible says", I am telling you what it says.
"And that's hate too"
Far from it. You have no concept what hate is. You seem to have been brainwashed by too many liberals. I'm not a liberal so I don't just lie about things like that.
gigman7 2 years ago
"I'm telling you what it says"
Really? Even the Seventh Day Adventists will tell other Christians "what the bible say", ever thought about that. It's called interpretations, it's not what the bible says.
"Far from it. You have no concept what hate is."
Really? Enlighten me.
jusitke07 2 years ago
Really. If it says it, it says it. And the Bible(God) is against us being gay.
"Really? Enlighten me."
Would you say stealing is wrong? Would you say murder is wrong? Would you say that Idolatry is wrong?
gigman7 2 years ago
No the Bible doesn't specifically call out Homosexuals as wrong. And God is not against being a Homosexual. If that were the case, then God is against Heterosexuals too.
"Would you say stealing is wrong? Would you say murder is wrong? Would you say that idolatry is wrong?"
Yes in that it affects the lives of others, but how does a committed loving relationship directly harm others, or you gigman?
jusitke07 2 years ago
Yes, the Bible does say that man should not sleep with a man as he would a woman. That is what homosexuality is. Saying he would be against heterosexuals if he was is the most ignorant statement you have said to me.
Why do you post hateful statements? Why do you hate? You should be ashamed for having hate in your heart.
gigman7 2 years ago
And may I ask, where did you find that at?
jusitke07 2 years ago
It's amazing how many times you ask a question and leave so many questions unanswered.
I found that you hate because you post hateful comments(by your definition of hate).
gigman7 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"It's amazing how many times you ask a question and leave so many questions unanswered."
What? What would that question be?
"I found that you hate because you post hateful comments(by your definition of hate)."
Really? Quote me verbatim.
jusitke07 2 years ago
So gigman, tell what know about the conservative, right wing Log Cabin Republicans.
jusitke07 2 years ago
I'm not a Republican so I'm not answering that.
gigman7 2 years ago
Okay, how conservative, do you consider yourself far right conservative?
jusitke07 2 years ago
I am a far right Christian.
gigman7 2 years ago
"I am a far right Christian."
Meaning you're a fundamentalist Christian?
jusitke07 2 years ago
Meaning a devoted Christian.
gigman7 2 years ago
"Meaning a dvoted Christian"
A devoted Christian? Meaning you take the Bible literally?
jusitke07 2 years ago
Meaning I take my relationship with Christ seriously.
And, yes, the Bible doesn't lie.
gigman7 2 years ago
"Meaning I take my relationship with Christ seriously"
Well so do Gay Christians.
"And yes, the Bible doesn't lie"
That's true, but yet you do...
jusitke07 2 years ago
"Well so do Gay Christians"
That doesn't make it right.
"That's true, but yet you do..."
Funny how you can't point out one thing that I have said that is a lie.
gigman7 2 years ago
"That doesn't make it right"
What, that Gay Christians love Jesus too?
"Funny how you can't point out the one thing that I ahve said that is a lie"
What, that you lie about God being the God of hate?
jusitke07 2 years ago
"What, that Gay Christians love Jesus too?"
No. Being gay is wrong.
"What, that you lie about God being the God of hate?"
I never said that. You are lying now.
gigman7 2 years ago
"No. Being gay is wrong."
Actually, playing "high & almighty"...is wrong.
"I never said that. You are lying now."
What? Seriously if you go back into the comments from your last video on the Phelps family....yeah there was a lot of hate message coming from you. Don't lie.
jusitke07 2 years ago
"Actually, playing 'high & almighty' ...is wrong"
Why are you changing the subject? Yes, that is wrong but that doesn't make being gay right.
No, I never posted any hate messages. Don't tell me I lie when you make up things. Like I said, you can't point out one thing I have posted that was out of hate.
Stop lying.
gigman7 2 years ago
Listen to the video. Obama said, "I never said troops should be withdrawn." He is lying. That was part of his campaign. Do you not remember that? He's a liar.
gigman7 2 years ago
See? You are still avoiding commenting properly on my links, and responding too providing proof.
I also noticed you dropped you're "war as a whole" resort arguement.
In response to you're next arguement,anyone should know that part of obama's campaign was much more then just a "withdraw" , we first have to get afghanistan of its knees and hand it over to the local military, and then we can begin bringing troops home.
Why do you focus on such a small part? beacuse its easy to attack? tell me.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
"Why do you focus on such a small part? beacuse its easy to attack? tell me."
Because that is what Obama and his supporters did. First Obama said they would be brought home immediately. Then he said 3 months. Then 6 months. then 18 months. Now he said we can't set a timeline. He knew from the beginning what was going on and what had to be done, and now he is doing the exact same thing that Bush was criticized for by the same people who are supporting him.
He's a liar!
gigman7 2 years ago
And now you are resorting to responding to small quotes again.
Look, everything in that comment is simply what you said when we started this arguement. You have provided no proof that obama "knew" what was going on, and the links I have sent you (which you are avoiding) easily shows that the situation in afghistan quickly got worse in 09'
Simply put, any intellegent person would understand why obama has too change his plans. You already know the situation has gotten worse. The proof is there.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
"And now you are resorting to responding to small quotes again."
I have to for you to understand them.
"You have provided no proof that obama 'knew' what was going on"
I don't have to. If he didn't know what was going on, if he wasn't lying, he shouldn't have been elected to start with. Why would we elect a commander in chief that doesn't even know what is going on? Either way, no one should have voted for him.
gigman7 2 years ago
I think its just so you can skip most of the comment and only respond to part of it. There are alot of people who do this, and even worse, actually take quotes out of context.
Yes you do. You are saying that obama knew the situation in afghistan was going to get worse. You are saying he knew that there was going to be an 100% death increase in 09.
You have to provide proof for this.
Lets be realistic, after the fairly minimal deaths before 09, I dont think anyone could forsee this.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
I haven't taken anything out of context.
No, I do not have to. Either he lied or he is not capable of being president. You say he didn't know what was going on so you esentually are saying that he is not fit to be president. On the other hand, he says in this very video that he never said that troops should not be withdrawn. He is in fact lying when he says that because he did say it.
There has NOT been a 100% increase in deaths in the war. But yet, we are sending "more" troops to the war.
gigman7 2 years ago
I never said you took anything out of context. Look again.
Look, you are saying that obama knew what the future would be like. The death increase in afghistan happened over the course of 2009, it didnt happen before obama became president, it happened after. No one could have known. Get it right.
Also, this very video also shows obama saying we have to help afghistan before we think about wIthdrawing (that's what he's getting at).
Lastly, there HAS been a 100% death increase in afghistan.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
No, I did not say he knew what the future wold be like. I said he knew what the war was like. The situation as a whole is getting better yet he wants to send more troops over to the war. I have it right. You just aren't understanding.
Lastly, there has been far fewer deaths in the war. Yet he wants more troops overseas. He's a liar and you just don't want to admit it.
gigman7 2 years ago
You are now starting the irrelevant "war as a whole" arguement again. We have been talking about afghistan from the beginning (I cant keep reminding you), and the situation there has gotten worse over 2009. This is why he is redeploying and sending over more troops to afghanistan. Just look at the proof. You are confusing one thing with another.
In afghistan, no. You are talking about the whole war again. He want more troops not only overseas, IN AFGHANISTAN. Get it right.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
No, I am talking about this video. I'm talking about what Obama is talking about. I'm talking about him lying. I'm talking about the "war". Obama is talking about the "war". The war hasn't gotten worse. Obama is a liar. You can't say otherwise.
gigman7 2 years ago
You only started talking about this video a few comments back.
Look at our very FIRST comments, and notice how they are about the situation in afghanistan. Look at all me comments and notice how they are about afghanistan.
Now look at you're RECENT comments, and how you have changed you're arguement several times, obviously showing you have nothing to say on the original debate.
I have provided proof. Obama didnt lie here.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
My comments have always been on the war. This video was posted by me. Pay attention.
You have proven nothing. When he says, "I've never said troops should be withdrawn", he is lying. He DID say they should be withdrawn. If you don't know this, do America a favor and don't vote because you don't keep up with it enough to know who to vote for.
gigman7 2 years ago
You're early comments were on the situation in afghanistan and "how it has not gotten worse". Really, ever since I sent you those links you're arguements have been tumbling all over the place.
I have proven that the situation in afghistan did infact get worse, as the links showed, aswell as showing clear reasons why obama had to change his plans and send over more troops.
You fail too see this and carry on with "obama lied" with no credible proof.
You also fail to notice what obama said AFTER.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
Sorry, for not responding for a while gigman, just got back from Hawaii celebrating a Gay Marriage between Gay Christians. It was awesome. Anyway, where were we?
jusitke07 2 years ago
I'm sorry to hear of more Christians not knowing the truth of God.
gigman7 2 years ago
Gay Christians know the truth of God too....that Jesus is Lord.
jusitke07 2 years ago
hahaha good one
Tiger66261 2 years ago
Thank you.
gigman7 2 years ago
I was talking to jusitke07.
?
Tiger66261 2 years ago
How so?
gigman7 2 years ago
He made a joke about gay people marrying in hawii and I thought it was pretty funny when you started talking about god.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
What's funny about that??
gigman7 2 years ago
Given you are a man of god I dont expect you to find this funny.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
He is also a "man of God" and he wasn't trying to be funny.
gigman7 2 years ago
He obviously was.
I take it you guys were argueing about gays in the past? If so, he's saying that to wind you up.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
No, he is gay and also claims to be a Christian. So, no, he obviously wasn't.
gigman7 2 years ago
And? You obviously disprove of gays, so I would understand if he was saying that to wind you up.
Eh, its a matter of opinion. Unless we ask justike
Tiger66261 2 years ago
It's not a matter of opinion. Not sure what you are saying there.
gigman7 2 years ago
wether or not he was joking.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
He was not joking. I've been talking with him for several months. He is gay and he will tell you so.
gigman7 2 years ago
Well, It is still a matter of opinion, he may be gay, but that still doesnt mean he's not trying to wind you up.
Why dont we ask him?
Tiger66261 2 years ago
Opinion? No, it's not.
gigman7 2 years ago
Well, its not an arguement worth carrying on unless we actually ask him.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
If he was trying to get me all worked up, you would think that after over a year, he would know that it doesn't work.
gigman7 2 years ago
"why not ask him?"
Tiger66261 2 years ago
Because I don't have to. I have been talking to him for over a year now. Maybe close to 2 years now.
gigman7 2 years ago
Regardless,
given you disprove of gays it would be clear that he's telling you that to annoy you.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
Regardless, he should know by now that it doesn't annoy me.
gigman7 2 years ago
And what of you gigman? You claim yourself to be "Christian" and yet advocate hate towards tax-pay American Gay citizens who mean no harm to you....??? Christian indeed
jusitke07 2 years ago
When have I advocated any "hate" at all?
gigman7 2 years ago
When you impose your biblical interpretations on others because they're "different"....that's hate.
jusitke07 2 years ago
That's not hate. You have been brainwashed by the liberal left.
gigman7 2 years ago
Thank you.
jusitke07 2 years ago
gigman contradicts himself a lot of times. He's blaming President Obama as a Socialist in the Administration's Healthcare Reform Plan, and yet tell me that the poor should seek medicare.....which medicare is definitely backed up by tax payers. Isn't that some form of Socialism?
jusitke07 2 years ago
Thanks jusike07, I thought I was the only one who is noticing gigman's utterly stupid arguements.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
It's funny how you keep saying that I contradict myself but you can't point out where I do. I never said that the poor should seek Medicare. I said that is it available to them.
gigman7 2 years ago
Bringing the american troops back isnt somthing Obama can do over night, it needs careful planning, the most respected general's even say that afganistan needs more troops before this is over.
We cant just put all the american troops on a plane, leave afganistan on its knees and let the taliban roam freely to kill more civilians and distrupt the country. Really.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
That is very true. That is why we should not have voted for this idiot. He doesn't know what he is talking about.
gigman7 2 years ago
But that is WHY is he not bringing back the american troops RIGHT NOW.
Everyone is saying obama "lied" but this is a difficult task .Many people dont know the first thing about what is happening, they just speak as if bringing back troops is a overnight task.
Give him time, and he will "at the least" bring back most of the troops.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
And in the mean time he is going to send more over there. He is such a liar.
gigman7 2 years ago
He has too, if he is to bring back the american troops home, he needs to train the afghanistan's military to fight the taliban. However, the american military over there right now is currently fighting, so he has to bring new troops to do the training.
Really. Do you know the slightest thing about what is going on over there?
Tiger66261 2 years ago
Can you not see that I have been agreeing with you? Yes, I know much more about what is going on over there than most people. I understand more than most of the idiots who believed him and voted for him.
gigman7 2 years ago
I see you agree with me on some things, but I still think obama hasnt done any "lying" what so ever.
There are good reasons for why he is not bringing back the american troops right now and why he is deploying more in afganistan, as I have stated. He cannot fufill his promise right now given the stakes in afghaistan.
Hope this enlightens you.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
He has lied from the beginning. He first said that if he became president, that troops would be brought home immediately. He later changes that to within 3 months. Then it became 6 months. Just before election, he said within 18 months. Now, after being elected, he says there should not be a timeline. That is what he should have said to start with, but he knew that there would be fools that would vote for him so he lied.
gigman7 2 years ago
But stakes in afganistan has changed.
If someone says "I will go home tommorow" and then realizes that his home is demolished the next day (thus he would not be able to go home) he would not be lying, it would just be a change of situation.
Thanks.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
"stakes in afganistan has changed"
No, stakes have not changed. People like Obama have just changed what they have told you about them. Liberals lie about all of this to get you to vote for them. After they are elected, the story changes.
gigman7 2 years ago
Just from reading you're comment it is obvious you have no idea what is going on.
First of all, The taliban is using the drugs trade to gain money for weapons instead of its conventional methods.
The taliban is recruiting civillians into its army by paying more then the average wage in afganistan.
And the afganistan goverment army is disorginized from recent attacks by the taliban.
You see, obama is FORCED to send more troops over the afganistan. The assault bush started obama has to clean up
Tiger66261 2 years ago
"The assault bush started obama has to clean up"
Just from reading your comment is it very obvious you have no idea what is going on.
gigman7 2 years ago
You took one little quote from my entire comment to reply too. Please try again.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
My point is this. You make it sound as if it is Bush' fault that we are at war. You also make it sound that Obama couldn't have known that he had to "clean it up" after he was elected.
Point is, Obama either lied or he is just plain stupid. I don't think he is that stupid. Only the people who voted for him.
gigman7 2 years ago
I just said it was an assault bush started.
He did START america's assault on afganistan by sending 40'000 american and NATO troops. I understand this was a reponse to the 911 bombings, but if bush didnt jump the gun, america wouldent be in this mess.
Like I said before (with good reasons), the situation in afghaistan has changed, gotten worse, and anyone who reaserched this would understand why obama had to change his plans for afghanistan.
Thanks.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
He did no "jump the gun". If anything, he waited too long. We had to do what we did.
Nothing has changed. Only what you know about the situation. Obama never had intentions to pull the troops. Only to say what he needed to to get elected. He out right lied.
gigman7 2 years ago
Bush didnt think in the long term - and it shows.
The taliban is adapting to america's tactics, and little progress has been made at all, just look at my facts a few comments down.
I have already stated GOOD facts of why obama is FORCED to change his plans, but you still keep on saying "obama lied" without any facts as if its implanted in you're brain.
If you did you're reaserch you would understand what is actually going on in afghaistan, which you obvously did not do!
Tiger66261 2 years ago
It's you that obviously does not know what is going on over there. You only believe the lies that the Obama administration and the liberal left are telling you. You obviously did not know what was going on over the last several years. You believe Obama's lies and state them as if they are facts. You don't realize that we have made great progress over the last several years. But you keep believing the lies you hear.
Nothing has changed since his lies.
gigman7 2 years ago
Once again you're entire comment is nothing but a huge rambling of "obama lied".
You have stated NOTHING that knocks down ANY of my arguements or facts.
My advice : Look up what is going on in afghanistan, and then come back.
im not one for stating facts over and over.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
Oh my goodness. You have stated no facts for me to knock down. I know what is going on in Afghanistan. What you said is going on there is and has been for years. You are just now discovering it, but that does not mean that is has not been going on there for years.
gigman7 2 years ago
If you knew what was going on, you would know the situation if afghaistan has gotten worse. It always has gotten worse.
It is near impossible right now to withdraw the american troops, so wether or not obama wants to withdraw (which I beleive he does) he cannot.
Any respected military general would say this.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
I have never said we should withdraw. I said that Obama lied when he said that he has never said they should be withdrawn.
And again, no, it has not gotten worse. Only the information you have gotten has. You just haven't known what was going on over there until Obama and his lefties have told you.
gigman7 2 years ago
I never said that you said that.
I am talking about obama.
And, who said the obama admin gave me this info? Do you even watch 24 hour news?
Anyway, if you actually think the situation in afghanistan has not changed, then it really shows you have no idea.
thanks.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
If you think the situation in Afghanistan has gotten worse, then you had no idea.
gigman7 2 years ago
So you are actually saying that it is not getting worse.... even with the taliban drugs trade booming, even with the american generals saying it will be YEARS before real progress can be made, even with america's military death rate getting even higher and higher..... and all you can say is "oh, the situation aint worse"
Really.... wow... just wow.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
I'm saying that obviously you didn't know it has been this way. It's not something that has just developed. You just haven't been informed up until now because your news source never told you the whole truth until it was something that would help make Obama look better. I'm not denying how bad it is there.
gigman7 2 years ago
Im an regular watcher of 24 news, and I know how things were, and how things have developed.
You are saying that the situation in afghaistan has stayed the same, which is so obviusly not the case, and until you realise its getting worse and worse, there's nothing else I can do.
And, what evidence do you have the my news source (which you have no idea what it is) is trying to help make obama better?
And yes, you are denying how bad it has gotten.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
No, I did not say I "how bad it has gotten". I am saying it is as bad as you say. The problem is, you don't realize how bad it was. What is "24 news"? That tells me nothing.
Again, if you think that things were better before we went there than they are now, you were misinformed.
gigman7 2 years ago
If you are really saying it has stayed as bad as it has the past few years, then that IS worse.
You are basically saying the US and NATO have made no progress what so ever. You're statement contradicts its self.
What is 24 news? Im a political junkie (well, better re-phrase, news junkie) so I watch CNN, BBC, and SKY news on and off every so often.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
My statement does NOT contradict itself. What part does that contradict. The part that you made up about me?
Yes, you get your news from Communist News Network. That explains it. I guess you think that Bush started the war. I guess you think that Iraqi citizens want us out. I guess you think we are at war with Iraq. I guess you think we just recently sent solders to Afghanistan. I can see now how you have been so misinformed.
gigman7 2 years ago
???
You are saying that if hasnt changed at all, meaning you are saying that it has stayed bad all these years. That means, that if what you say is true, US has made ZERO progress in aghaistan, which is idiotic.
Communist news network?
Its Cable news network. I also watch BBC and SKY. When did I say bush started the war?
When did I say Iraqi citizens what "us" out?
What did I say.... ANY of the statements you have said.
You are making stupid assumptions. Infact, that is all you have been doing.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
I know what CNN stands for. I was just making a point. One that I guess went over your head. I also am not making any assumptions. I didn't say "you are" I said "I guess". I was pointing out that people who watch these stations and these only think this way. Instead of watching stations that give you only part of the story, try talking to people who have been over there. You will learn much more.
It's you that assumes too much.
gigman7 2 years ago
You made an un-funny joke and a huge list of assumptions.
You said "I guess" which means you are guessing, or should I say, ASSUMING.
You have just contradicted you're self, again.
And, I find hard to beleive that an soldier who has served in afghanistan would say "the situation has not changed" beacuse when these respected US army generals come up to the microphone, the information they say, aswell as the news, internet or any expert, they will say the same thing - "its getting worse".
Tiger66261 2 years ago
I haven't made any joke. I have yet to contradict myself. Why do you keep saying that I have contradicted myself when you can't even tell me what I have contradicted myself on.
You need to talk to a few solders. You have been so out of touch. It's time for you to learn a little about what has been going on over the last 8 years. I bet you were ignorant enough to vote for Obama.
And, no, saying that "I guess" isn't assuming.
gigman7 2 years ago
So what, that "communist news network" wasnt a joke? You were being serious?
Where have you contradicted you're self?
You said that the war in afghaistan is not getting worse, its staying the same.
The problem? You are basically saying that after all these years, the situation is staying the same, which IS WORSE. You are basically saying US has made no progress what so ever. This is where you have contradicted you're self.
I have my sources, I have learnt what is going on, You, have not.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
I have not contradicted myself. You think I have because you have assumed too much. It has not "stayed the same". I just said it hasn't gotten worse. I never said that the U.S. has made no progress. But you have, which is wrong. So, you have not known what has been going on over there. I know you have your sources, but they are poor sources. You judge me wrong when you say I haven't learned what is going on. I obviously have known longer than you have.
gigman7 2 years ago
I said "The stakes in afghistan have changed"
YOU replied, "No, stakes have not changed."
Therefore implying that things have stayed the same. Therefore implying that the US has made no progress. Condradicting you're self some more, I see?
Also, You KNOW NOTHING about my sources, you have stated no proof that my sources back obama in any way, and you have only commented on CNN, which I dont even get much of my info from. See? You keep on making guesses and assumptions, nothing else.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
Again, I have yet to contradict myself. No, I said that things are not worse than they were. I said that the conditions over there, you did not know about until after Obama needed to send troops over there.
I know you sources have not told you the whole truth or you would have known what it was like over there before Obama wanted to send troops over. So, no, I have not assumed anything. Only commented on what you have said.
gigman7 2 years ago
Well, You said clearly "the situation has not changed", so you have just contradicted you're self again. I can quote the entire comment if you want. And, I knew about the situation before and know what is happening now. Infact, I can easily create a timeline of the entire afghistan war if you want, and maybe that will show you how bad it has gotten.
And, you still havent stated stated ANY proof that my sources are "withholding the truth" or back obama. So, until you do, you are ASSUMING.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
The proof that your sources are not good is that you did not know what was going on there.
Again, I have not contradicted myself at all. You have just proven that you don't even know what a contradiction is.
gigman7 2 years ago
Look bud, you STILL havent commented on me quoting you saying "the situation has not changed" so quit saying "I have not contradicted myself" like a headless chicken and look at what you said!
I didnt know? I stated (back when we started this debate) The situation in afghistan, and you said "that is what's happening before and now" therefore agreeing with me on these matters.
You still havent stated proof that ANY of my sources are doing any of you're accusations.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
"Look bud"? Are you getting frustrated by my proving you wrong that you have to call me "bud"?
What am I supposed to say to your incorrect statement. I agreed with you that it was bad over there. I agreed with you that what is going on now has been going on for a long time. I did not say it has stayed the same. I don't have to prove your sources were anything when you already have. You have proven that you didn't know what was going on before recently.
gigman7 2 years ago
Its just a saying. It doesnt mean anything.
Yes, You DID say it has stayed the same.
YOU SAID "no, the situation has not changed", and its obvious you're avoiding commenting on this quote beacuse you know I have proven you wrong, you just dont want to admite it.
Yes, you do have to prove my sources are "withholding truth" if you are going to make statements like that. If you dont, they are just assumptions.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
The situation hasn't changed in that they have always had these problems. Not that they aren't improving.
I do not have to prove something that you have already proven.
gigman7 2 years ago
So now you're actually saying the situation in afghanistan is improving? please kill me now.
I have not proven that my news source is withholding information. You are simply dodging the request, so ill ask you again, do YOU have ANY proof that my sources are "backing obama" or any of you're other claims? hmmm?
Tiger66261 2 years ago
In some sense, it is getting better. Yes, the U.S. is making progress. Yes, Obama is making the right decisions in sending troops. Yes, he lied.
Yes, you have proven that you were not informed until now. Whatever your news source is/was.
gigman7 2 years ago
In some sense, it IS getting worse. You see, alot has happened in the time obama said he would bring the troops back home to the time he said there has too be a planning process.
Even if you look on wikipedia, the information is so clear. And, like I said, I know what was happening before, and now.
You have said nothing that makes you're "obama lied!" statement any more credible.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
Do you understand what "Wikipedia" is? You should not take anything on there as the whole truth.
"You have said nothing that makes you're "obama lied!" statement any more credible."
Try listening to the video again. He said that he was going to bring the troops home "immediately". Then he said "3 months", then he said "6 months" then "18 months", now he said we can't make a time line. He has lied from the beginning. And people were dumb enough to vote for him.
gigman7 2 years ago
I never said everything on wikipedia is true, but most of its facts are 100% and reliable.
But I have already said that the situation in afghaistan has changed.
If someone says "I will travel by plane tonight!" and then realises their flight is delayed (thus they would not go on the plane) that would not be lying!"
And, just have you know, every american president would have lied at least a few times.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
I never said everything on wikipedia is true, but most of its facts are 100% and reliable.
But I have already said that the situation in afghaistan has changed.
If someone says "I will travel by plane tonight!" and then realises their flight is delayed (thus they would not go on the plane) that would not be lying!"
And, just have you know, every american president would have lied at least a few times.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
"If someone.....that would not be lying".
It would be if they already knew that it was delayed. And Obama knew what it was like and what he would do. He lied. Period.
gigman7 2 years ago
-Sorry for not replying, I was away.-
Like I said, you still need to provide proof.
We will keep on going around in circles unless you provide proof that obama knew what it was like and that my sources (which I only listed a few) is backing obama.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
No problem.
I don't have to provide proof of anything. Either he lied about or it's more proof that he is too ignorant to have been elected as president to start with. Which means anyone who voted for him is too ignorant to be able to vote.
gigman7 2 years ago
Well, yes you do.
You are claiming that obama lied, and that my sources are backing obama, so you need to provide proof for both these statements.
If you are unable (or refusing) then we are going to hit a dead end.
Its you're choice.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
No, I do not. Either you are saying that he did know and therefore, he lied, or you are saying he didn't know and was not qualified for the job. So, which one is it?
gigman7 2 years ago
You are limiting it to two options (Obviously,Two options which make obama look bad)
Like I said, the situation in afghistan has took a turn for the worse, hence why obama needs to change his plans for bringing troops back home. If you have seen the interviews with american army chief's and generals (recent ones) you'll know this is what they say.
Now, ill ask you again. Give me proof, or everything you have said is INVALID.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
There are only 2 options. Either he did know or he didn't.
I know you say it has taken a turn for the worse, but that is because you do not realize how it was before Obama was in office because you were misinformed.
Now, there is no proof to give you since you are wrong about the situations.
gigman7 2 years ago
Well, you dont really see a full picture then.
And, yes I have. It was bad before obama was in office, but it has gotten worse.
If you say the war has stayed the same (which is quite idiotic) or the war has gotten better, then you are the one who is misinformed.
You have still failed to provide evidence.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
Then tell me your full picture.
The situation has not gotten worse. I never said that it has stayed the same. I only said that it has not gotten worse. Don't believe Obama's lies. You just didn't know how bad it was before he got in. No, I'm not the one who is misinformed. You are the one who did not know how bad it was before we went over there.
You have provided no more evidence than you are wanting me to provide.
gigman7 2 years ago
Well, you did say it stayed the same, and then vaugely said "I only meant it in the sense it has not gotten worse". So, was is it? are you saying that it has gotten better? Please tell me.
And new you are saying that I need to provide evidence. Really, you are the one who is saying (completely certain, too) that My sources are backing obama and that obama lied. I am asking for proof, which you are STILL refusing to give.
We are still going round in circles.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
No, I never said it stayed the same. You only assumed that I thought it stayed the same when I said it hadn't gotten worse.
Yes, we are going around in circles because you do not know what is going on. You ask me for sources yet you refuse to give any of your own. Talk to some people who have been over there and learn. Don't listen to liars like Obama who only wants to be elected president and doesn't care about the U.S.
gigman7 2 years ago
I can quote youre enitre comment if you want.
you said clearly "no, the situation has not changed"
I suggest you look over previous comments.
And lastly, I did list sources for you, but you said "not everything on wikipeida is true" and that my news sources are "back obama".
YOU are the one who has to provide, beacuse otherwise you are just making arrogant claims.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
Source: People who have been there. You need to talk to them instead of believing anything that some random person puts on Wikipedia. In case you didn't know it, that is how Wikipedia works. But, on the other hand, people who have been there know what is going on. Obama either lies or doesn't know enough to be our president.
gigman7 2 years ago
People who have been there would know about the experience and what its like, but when you are looking for a full picture, a news source with reporters interviewing respected military cheifs and generals, is a more reliable source.
And wikipedia does not work like that. Only the most well written and correct article on afghistan will be on the wop of the search engine (wikipedia has got editors) and those editors will correct the best ones with their own sources.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
*top
typo
Tiger66261 2 years ago
Far from it. News people know less about it than the people who are with the generals every day and who are experiencing what is going on.
What makes the editors on wikipedia experts on any particular topic?? My point is, they aren't. So, yes, Wikipedia does work that way.
gigman7 2 years ago
You are actually saying that a soldier on the front lines would be meeting a military cheif or general every day?
Generals and cheifs are not on the front lines. They hardly are. And besides, News people ACTUALLY interview people who know whats going, and they show these interviews.
I never said the editors are experts, I just said that wikipeida goes through a long process thats far from "random guys posting articles".
Generally, wikipedia is 100% correct.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
Generally, Wikipedia is 50% correct. Look it up for yourself.
Solders know a lot more about what is going on over there than you do. They also know a lot more about what is going on than 99% of the people you see posting these stories on stations such as CNN or BSNBC. It's best of you know your source. And news reporters aren't a great source on these types of things.
gigman7 2 years ago
I looked it up and I dont see much.
All I have found is a article on wikipedia saying "we can be wrong" and that they would correct mistakes quickly.
Anyway, If I want to know what the expereince and training is like, I would ask people who have been over there. But if I wasnt a full picture of the war, I would look at my sources, especially when they conduct interview with people who are REAL experts (aka military cheifs). You are talking about what they are, not what they do
Tiger66261 2 years ago
*want
typo again
Tiger66261 2 years ago
And the military chiefs are saying the same thing that I am. 99% of the military personal are saying what I am saying. Because, that is where I am getting my information.
gigman7 2 years ago
Oh dear lord.
Really. The military chiefs are the ones saying afghistan needs more troops by 2011 if any progress is to be made, and then YOU are saying that they are the ones also saying that the situation is getting better (or not getting worse) which makes no utter sense.
Sorry mate, you are wrong.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
No, it's you that is wrong. Yes, they are saying that we need to send more troops, but but they also say we have made progress.
gigman7 2 years ago
They are also saying that the situation is getting worse.
If you look at the death rate, over 100 britsh soldiers have died this year, with a total of 200 british soldiers dead since 2001. The death rate went up almost 100% this year alone.
Are you saying thats not worse?
There is a reason that the UN is sending over more troops. As i've told you, as any military cheif has said in the news interviews, the situation has gotten worse.
If you cannt see that, there's nothing I can do for you.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
There are a lot more British solders over there now, so of coarse there are going to be more casualties. How many have we lost this year? How many have we lost over the last 7 years?
gigman7 2 years ago
Not really. Gordon sent british reforcments only recently. The biggest cause of deaths during 2008-09 is the road side bombs (IED's), another tactic that the taliban started using from 08. Most people blame this on the lack of armoured vechiles that are transporting our troops at the front lines.
Again, are you saying that's not worse?
Tiger66261 2 years ago
"Not really. Gordon sent british reforcments only recently"
You are contradicting yourself.
Yes, I know all about the road side bombs. You need to get your facts straight then come back with a better argument.
gigman7 2 years ago
You took a little quote from my entire comment, again.
Anyway, you said I contradicted myself. Please explain.
If you knew about the roadside bombs, then you would blame it on the lact of helicopters, equipment and armoured vechiles. Not on the silly excuse thats there's more troops, as that doesnt justify why there's 100% more deaths this year.
Get my facts right? you didnt even say what is wrong in the earlier comment. Nice try.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
Listen, if there are 100 people living in a town, and an average of 1 per year dies, then 5 years later, there are 1000 people living in the same town and an average of 10 people die a year, we can't say something is wrong with that town since the death rate has risen. That would be the same thing.
gigman7 2 years ago
You make it sound so simple.
Lets not forget that almost all the deaths were caused by road bombs (a weapon the taliban got there hands on recently, thanks to the drugs trade) so we cant just say "well, lets blame it on the increase in troops" we would have to blame it on the lack of helicopters, armoured vechiles.
It is pretty annoying that you would slag off the huge death increase with that terrible excuse.
How would you like it if obama came on television and said what you said.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
Then why has the number of U.S. military deaths not increase?
It is "so simple" for those of us who can think and understand things like this.
gigman7 2 years ago
It HAS increased. Its was just that the british death rate was a more fitting example of the ever "worse" situation that is going on in afghinistan.
You can hardly understand. You blame the massive increase in deaths on the extra soldiers, even tough these deaths could be easily avoided with an extra supply of helicopters. This isnt any everyday unavoidable car crash!!!
I am glad obama has changed his plans and provided more troops and supply's.
Really. Look at the facts.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
It has NOT increased. No, I am not blaming a massive increase in deaths on extra soldiers. It is you that can hardly understand.
Obama has not changed his plans for anything. Only what he is telling you what his plans are. You can't get away from it, either he has lied or he is not fit for presidency.
gigman7 2 years ago
The death number for USA in 2008 was 155.
In 2009, it was 50% higher, as the death number was 310, which was the highest then any other year. Look at the facts. I can give you all the links and sources you want, just dont make arrogant claims.
And, if you are not blaming it on the extra soilders, then you must be blaming it on the road bombs. Which then means you are admitting these deaths were avoidable.
You are failing to see that the situation has gotten worse. Really. You are.
Tiger66261 2 years ago
310 is not 50% higher than 155. It is 100% higher. Seeing that we have been there for about 7 years, if you are saying that 310 is the most we have had in one year, than we would not even have much more than 2,000 total deaths. Which we have had a lot more.
You are failing to see that you do not know what you are talking about. You still give wrong information.
I don't doubt that you can give links to what you are saying. There are lots of lies out there.
gigman7 2 years ago
Its 50% compared to the actual total. 155 is 50% of 310. Put it what ever say you want.
As for the total deaths of americans since 2001-2009, it has been 940. I can give you the link. Its includes all the names of everyone who has died, and sources to the DOD website.
Really, get you're facts right.
You have to see that the huge death increase is worse. If you cannot, then you are stupid or avoiding trying to admite the situation has gotten worse.
Tiger66261 2 years ago