Hydrogen Hopes

[blastforyou]

when people make comparisons between pump gasoline and hydrogen fuel; guess what , "gasoline" is in fact a simple molecule of one atom of carbon and one of hydrogen and the energy of molecule is the hydrogen so we are already using hydrogen.

[walter0bz]

hydrogen fool-cells - the car industry pretending it has a future.

Just face the truth - after Peak-Oil there will be no motorized transport available to common people.

hydrogen is an energy carrier not an energy source, so its highly deceptive to talk about it filling a similar role to fossil-fuels.

[WoodyMathias]

@walter0bz Its true that it requires a fuel source, but the biggest problem at the moment is how to extend a cars range beyond what batteries can carry, without the use of fossil fuels. You are ignorant for saying this is not possible with hydrogen.

[walter0bz]

@WoodyMathias -

No.

I fully understand Hydrogen can make cars work.

The question is "How Many".

I claim, the energy will no longer be abundant enough. The proficiency of hydrogen is a moot point.

We have cars not because of "internal combustion engine vs hydrogen", but because of millions of years of stored solar power in coal,oil,natural gas that allows us to release it rapidly.

Without fossil-fuels, the superior transport will be Bicycles. (if we can still make such precision items..)

[walter0bz]

@WoodyMathias

>>"but the biggest problem at the moment is how to extend a cars range beyond what batteries can carry, "

No.

Cars, full stop, are the least of our worries. You can run industrial civilization on electric trains between cities, and electric trams within cities, and bicycles for short range.

The real problem is, whether or not we can keep such complex technology at all withou the fossil-fuel energy boost. When it comes to Sustainable, biosphere has many superior systems already..

[walter0bz]

@WoodyMathias -

the big picture..

You can live without a car, already.

You can't live without the fuel to run industrial civilization

[Me102288]

neet, wikipedia has some neat info on hydrogen.

When ignited, the gas mixture converts to water vapor and releases energy, which sustains the reaction: 241.8 kJ of energy for every mole of H2 burned.

Now how much space does a mole of hydrogen take up? cuz thats the equivelent in force of a 5.7kiloton Bomb.. :-o stuff's explosive enough to compare to a atomic weapon :-o. (in force, meaning pushing piston's in a combustion engine

[Me102288]

neet, wikipedia has some neat info on hydrogen.

When ignited, the gas mixture converts to water vapor and releases energy, which sustains the reaction: 241.8 kJ of energy for every mole of H2 burned.

Now how much space does a mole of hydrogen take up? cuz thats the equivelent in force of a 5.7kiloton Bomb.. :-o stuff's explosive enough to compare to a nuclear weapon :-o. (in force, meaning pushing piston's in a combustion engine

[claudius2u]

Alan Alda has all his life had problems with reality. His hate for protecting the safety of human rights by armed force and open display of love for military regimes that murdered millions, i.e., Communism, Despot Dictators, and such, is a sad commentary for his personal sense of reality.

This video is politically-motivated to increase living standards for the ultra-wealthy, while making life much more difficult for the impoverished, his personal target for elimination enmasse.

[Me102288]

OMFG its the guy from mash

[claudius2u]

The unproven THEORY that CO2 accumulation causes earth-warming, adopted by those who refuse to question and double check such calims, is actually exactly opposite the Real event of earth warming! Real scientists who ask geological records about the formation of CO2 have clear evidence that such increase comes long AFTER earth warming occurs! SUNSPOTS cause earth warming, then trees grow, and rotting biomass then releases CO2! Hey, Al Goreites, Grow up! Speak Reality, not silly assumptions!

[spamvigilante]

@claudius2u Wow, you hate science, don't you? Why is the planet Venus hotter than Mercury? The latter is more than 30 million miles closer to the sun.

Simple, the atmosphere of Venus is almost exclusively CO2, with sulphuric acid clouds.

You are completely bereft of fact, yet spout your Fox News Channel idiocy with great frequency.

Please provide some supporting documentation, if you have any. Else? Time to bite the bullet and shut up.

[claudius2u]

@spamvigilante "I" hate science? No, it is you and all those who cannot take the time to look under the pure nonsense of political social engineering by flooding the media waves with false claims that "hate" science.

"Science" as a term, speaks to honest, un-mitigated discovery of fact. GW false science, non-scientists at NASA published Fall temperature records from the previous month to "prove" the theory of GW. Hey guy, get your facts straight!:-)) Hydrogen for power? Fact is, it's nonsense!

[spamvigilante]

@claudius2u You obviously do not know the first thing about science. It is constantly changing, subject to peer review. It is NEVER about fact. Science must be challengeable, reproducible and verifiable. You assertion to the contrary proves how little you know.

GW trends have been studied for decades. No doubt, you were one of the people who looked at snow in the Northeast this past winter and laughed at GW. GLOBAL not REGIONAL. CLIMATE not PRECIPITATION AMOUNT. CLIMATE not WEATHER. Get it yet?

[claudius2u]

@spamvigilante - WOW! Look up the term, and meaning of, "Science"!! It is the irrefutable reality that defines gravity, liquid, solid, life, death, and understanding! GW has not one of these characteristics of "Science"!! Truth is immutable reality, not the human-morass of eternal revisions that you characterize GW as being! Go figure!

[spamvigilante]

@claudius2u Sadly, your supplied definition is flawed. Science is always being challenged. String theory, for example is only one branch of particle physics with completely divergent conclusions from classic Newtonian physics.

Kindly cite your source.

Better defintion: "Research into questions posed by theories and hypotheses." Source: thefreedictionaryDOTcomSLASHre­search.

Or, "Ability to produce solutions in some problem domain." Source: opendictionaryDOTcomSLASHscien­ce.

Your response?

[cmaqua]

Looks like vehicles that are not running on gasoline ect. have a reduction in noise pollution too. thats pretty cool.

[Me102288]

@cmaqua running an engine on hho (2parts hydrogen 1 part oxygen) is being done all over the world. your right, there is no emmisions exept water, evaporates, rains, and you get more fuel.. :-) (water and electrolysis = hho) a truly unlimited fuel source,... but the oil companys dont want us to know that :-o

[Vulcan750L]

So this video came out 6 years ago. What has happened with this hydrogen car technology by the ovshinskys? What about their flexible solar panels?

Probably too expensive and went nowhere fast.

[Me102288]

@Vulcan750L well the oil company wants you to pay for fuel for all eternity bud, thats the fact, we all use hho (browns gas) and it will put them out of a 100 billion dollar business.. you figure you'd kill a littl;e project like this to keep making billions? Don't forget how Stran Meyers used brown's gas to run a combustion engine entirely on hho (this technology is 100's of years old). And Stan miraculously disappeared with all his technology.

[Vulcan750L]

@Me102288

So what are you trying to say?  The oil companies killed off the Ovshinskys? Don't be a retard!

It doesn't matter what the oil companies want they seldom get their way.

[Me102288]

@Vulcan750L Ovinsky's? lol I hope you know brown's gas was proven to work 100 years ago.. yet they chose to use fossil fuels, because they make money on it... you think they could charge us the same for water? Welcome to real life bud, you'll find huge business like that do crazy things to stay in business...

[Vulcan750L]

@Me102288

You were responding to my comment about the Ovshinskys and what happened to their hydrogen car.

I don't know anything about Brown's gas over 100 years ago. Why don't you try to stick to the more relevant subject.

However, I did look it up and it is considered to be an inefficient way of propelling a vehicle since it takes more energy to produce the hydrogen than just burning the gasoline itself. Brown's gas wasn't some kind of miracle fuel nor the answer to the gasoline engine.

[Me102288]

@Vulcan750L k, relevent.. 100+ years ago a man discovered hydrogen as an unlimited fuel source. ever since they've been sweeping it under the carpet because water is free and the wouldn't make any money. Since then many ppl have been experimenting with it and found no proof that it wont work. Since then we've made many advances in electricity generation, making it possible to fuel a combustion engine entirely on hho.. being the only problem was generating enough hho to do it.

[Vulcan750L]

@Me102288

Water is nearly free, but hydrogen is not. Where do you go to get free hydrogen? Hydrogen requires a lot of energy to produce. It requires more energy to make the hydrogen than can be reclaimed from hydrogen. There are also other costs to hydrogen and other difficult problems with it that remain unresolved. You don't seem to understand the basic problems with hydrogen. Talk about naive.

[Me102288]

@Vulcan750L wow, water is free here, lot of energy ?, hmm 1.48 volts an electrode at 10 to 15 amps.. 11 plate, 1 is hot, 2 are ground.. so 3 x 1.48 is about 5 volts, so 75 watts (5volt x 15 amps).. so, a 60 watt light bulb is a lot to you? should see that guy online with 144 some odd plate cell, that draw 3400 watts at like 240 volt.

The problems with hydrogen? its cleaner, higher octane fuel then what we use now.. oh, and it wont run out... ya, lottsa problems :-\.

[Vulcan750L]

@Me102288

Where do you live that water is free? Trust me. Somebody is paying for it. Maybe it's included in your rent? So you pay for it indirectly.

And do you think you can get free water from a water refueling station?

Like I said, you are oblivious to the problems with Hydrogen. This is one automobile technology the oil companies don't have to worry about. It will never be commercially viable. And it can't compete with EVs.

Watch this video: /watch?v=mKuKOe8tZmE

[Me102288]

@Vulcan750L you pay for water? holy, I'd collect rain water.. anyway, I live beside a river, all I do is distill the water. I guess I'm fortunate that way. So if an "EV" is so great why do they need a combustion engine running to charge the battery? last one I seen could only drive 150 kilometers without recharging, and has around $8000 worth of batteries. So if they make it more effecienct then thats great.

[Vulcan750L]

@Me102288

EVs (Electric Vehicles) do not have engines! Electric HYBRIDS have engines. The Volt and the Prius are hybrids.

EVs currently have a range of 100 - 140 typically. A few have ranges of 200 - 300 miles produced by Tesla. Go to my channel and look up my playlist on Electric Cars.

[Me102288]

@Vulcan750L hybid = gas electric, unless you mean the "fuel cell" that converts hydrogen and oxygen combining to produce electricity? (much much more ineffiecient, and your carry'in 30 gallons of liquid H2) or the ones you have to plug your car in every say 300 kilimeters? both are a pain, one doesn't put out enough electrity to run the vehicle for very long, and one you simply store the electricity which doesn't last for long, I dont see much difference, pay for hydrogen, or pay for electricity

[Vulcan750L]

@Me102288

When did I ever mention fuel cells? I was talking about EVs and you kept bringing up electric hybrids. You don't seem to know the difference between Electric Vehicles and hybrids, a mix of electric and engine. And you seem to have trouble following this argument. You keep getting lost and confused.

Hydrogen has all kinds of problems and added costs and requires greater infrastructure, less energy efficient, and more complex.

Did you view the video I suggested?

[Me102288]

@Vulcan750L we have a 175 foot well.and a reverse osmosis system, we havent paid for water for 10+ years.

Cant compet with EV's huh.. Einstien calculated the energy contained in 30 litre's of water equals the equivelent of 30 MILLION gallons of gasoline, compare electricity vs. an atomic fuel? lol not in combustion

[Vulcan750L]

@Me102288

So tell me, what does a hydrogen car costs compared to an electric car? It costs about 3x as much. Is that competitive?

A hydrogen car also HAS TO have very expensive infrastructure put into place BEFORE it can become viable.

Electric cars DO NOT have to have ANY infrastructure at all to be viable. But, infrastructure will make it more convenient and give it much more flexibility. Electric hybrids can refuel on gasoline if or when needed like a normal car.

[Vulcan750L]

@Me102288

Hydrogen has to be made from electricity. This results in the loss of energy in the process, whereas, EVs can take the electricity and store it directly into the battery with no conversion loss.

Hydrogen also leaks out of any container that stores it. Is this efficient? Would you buy a gasoline car with a gas leak? Is this safe to park or store in your garage? Hydrogen is an explosive volatile gas.

[Vulcan750L]

@Me102288

If the "all powerful" evil oil companies wanted to kill off competing technologies, explain the fact that only about 25% of the energy production in this country comes from oil. Most of the electric produced comes from coal, NG, hydro, geothermal, wind, and solar. Green technologies are about to take over. They didn't kill off any of these people, did they?

Electric cars will soon put an end to our oil dependency. Are the oil companies killing off or paying off producers of EVs?

[Me102288]

@Vulcan750L LOL electric cars.. ta, of course they'll let them through, they still running a combustion ingine ON GASOLINE to charge the batterys to run the electric motors.. my god man, wake up, we are so fuk'in dependant on oil you think theyd honerstly give a shit about not poluting... you really outta do your research, we could have been using brown's gas before ever touching fossil fuels..it was a choice not a necessity..and go figure, they wouldn't have made much monet on brown's gas.

[Vulcan750L]

@Me102288

You are the one who needs to wake up. I was talking about electric cars (EVs), not electric hybrids. Even with the electric hybrids, like the Volt, most of the time you won't need that engine. Unless you are making trips in excess of 40 miles a day, you won't necessarily use a drop of gas. Most drivers will rarely exceed 40 miles/day. It is also a "plug-in".

Every major and minor auto manufacturer in the world has an EV in production or have prototypes out, some build only EVs.

[spamvigilante]

@Vulcan750L I'm so sorry. Did you forget where the electricity came from? Oh, right. COAL BURNING!

So tell us, do you clean your floor by sweeping the dirt under the rug? Same concept. CO2 emissions, sulphuric acid rain, erosion of land by strip mining. Bravo, you see no tailpipe and wrongfully assume no emissions.

[Vulcan750L]

@spamvigilante

Did you forget there are many ways to produce electricity? It can come from solar, wind, nuclear, fusion, hydro, geothermal, or whatever.

Even if it comes from coal or oil or natural gas, commercial production of electricity is very efficient and requires very little burning of carbon fuels to produce enough electricity to charge an electric car. It is still much cleaner than burning a tank of gas. It is equivalent to burning one gallon of gas for 200 miles worth of electric.

[Phlegmatic010101]

@Vulcan750L where do you get your misinformation? 1 gal gas=200 mi of electric? who sez so? renewbles r not even close 2 the cost of burnin coal so utilitiez dont do it. the maintnence on solar & wind in labor costs alone r 2x that of nuclear.source: ucsusa ORG. getting lots bettr but stil many yrs away.

u gonna cite ur source or r u gonna run away w ur tail betwn ur legs? again.

[Vulcan750L]

@Phlegmatic010101

I was talking about coal, oil, NG plants actually. Reread that paragraph. You seem to have a reading comprehension problem.

Green tech has high upfront costs but little or no fuel cost. Conventional power plants have to be constantly fed.

It costs less than $4 worth of electricity to recharge a 200+ mile ranged Tesla. How many gallons of fuel do you think they are burning to provide that electricity? Avg. cost of electricity is $0.12/Kwh.

watch?v=BFfOQ4oc40A

[Vulcan750L]

@spamvigilante

I'm assuming you are a proponent of hydrogen.

Your argument against electric cars also applies to hydrogen cars. Where does the hydrogen come from? I'm sorry, did you forget that part?

Except there is a couple of differences. Storing electricity directly into a battery is much more efficient than converting the electricity into hydrogen where you have an energy loss in the production process. Electric motors are also much more efficient than combustion engines.

[spamvigilante]

@Vulcan750L Your assumption is wrong. Please do not attribure words to me that I did not state.

Most commercial hydrogen is produced from natural gas, a fossil fuel. And carbon dioxide is expelled into the atmosphere as a byproduct of the process. Hydrogen production by hydrolysis is possible via renewable sources of electricity but is still far more expensive.

[Vulcan750L]

@spamvigilante

So you are not a proponent of hydrogen cars and you think EVs are no better than gasoline engined cars, so what are you a proponent of ?

And what words did I attribute to you that you did not state?

[spamvigilante]

@Vulcan750L Your words, verbatim: "I'm assuming you are a proponent of hydrogen." 2 comments back. Too difficult for you to use this complicated software?

Most trips taken in urban environments are < 1 mile. Human power. Mass transit. The solutions have been there for more than 100 yrs. Snobs who would rather take a cab than walk 5 blocks are the problem.

I am not so conceited to think that I have every solution. Perhaps others who comment in this thread could benefit from the same approach.

[Vulcan750L]

@spamvigilante

You're a self-righteous ignoramus who thinks you're superior to these "snobs". How ironic and hypocritical.

I don't think anybody takes a cab to go five blocks. Very few people live just 1 mile from their work.

"I'm assuming you are a proponent of hydrogen."

That is an assumption of your position based on your comments.

It is not "attributing words to you that you did not state".

[spamvigilante]

@Vulcan750L I'm so sorry that simple English and logic escape your ability to reason.

Here in NYC, plenty of people grab a cab to travel a short distance. In most dense urban environments, the same can be said. I will venture a guess that you live in the burbs or rural area, but I am not so full of myself to assume the way that you do.

Feel free to correct me. Unlike your position which indicates some kind of moral authority. Where I come from, we refer to it as douchebaggery.

[Me102288]

@spamvigilante sorry I'm just curious how do you get hydrogen from natural gas?

[spamvigilante]

@Me102288 How is 95% of commercial hydrogen produced these days from natural gas? Steam methane reformation.

Read more: popularmechanics . com / science / energy / next-generation / 4199381

[Me102288]

@spamvigilante sounds like a complicated process, I generate hydrogen with the electrolysis of water, got a little electric generator out back, puts out 2kiowatt, funny it only takes about 160 watts to generate. I dont think it matters what ya get h2 from, seems its the best fuel out there, more bang then gasoline and water as an emmision...you handle h2 or "hho"?

[spamvigilante]

@Me102288 Water vapor is a greenhouse gas. Nuff said.

[Me102288]

@spamvigilante so... you think water is harmfull to the planet? it condense's into clouds and rains.

[spamvigilante]

@Me102288 You, as are others, are again attributing words to me that I did not supply.

Taking natural gas, chemically treating it so that it can become commercial hydrogen and elimination of CO2 into the atmosphere is bad enough. Burning the hydrogen, which becomes water vapor, ANOTHER greenhouse gas is another element of an ecological disaster in the making.

Even if hydrogen is produced by electrolysis, you have taken it from the liquid state and placed it into the atmosphere. Get it?

[Me102288]

@spamvigilante ok, one thats not the only way of producing hydrogen, two, burning hydrogen turn backs to WATER..where the heck you get greenhouse gas'es from.. LOL you really need to learn something about water. splitting water = 2 parts hydrogen 1 part oxygen, niether are harmfull to anything on the planet, OH NO water vapour! lol its called a cloud.. and go figure, it comes back down... WATER, its called rain, the planets been like that since man existed. 

[spamvigilante]

@Me102288 Not surprisingly, you are oversimplifying. Electrolysis takes almost as much energy to split hydrogen at the anode and oxygen at the cathode as it will create by burning H2 as fuel. Not an efficient process. Using liquified natural gas is more cost efficient and thus it is the primary method. Do you understand yet?

More water vapor in the amosphere will produce a greenhouse effect. Warmer temps will keep water in the gaseous state & prevent condensation. Runaway effect. Get it yet?

[Me102288]

@spamvigilante Lol right, water is the cause of global warming,..... so uh, why arent we all dead, the earth has been recycling water this way for millions of years. P.s. water vapour turns to a liquid faster in cold temperatures.. oooh well shit on a stick, the higher the altitude the COLDER it gets... your certainly right, water runs away, evaporates, but its been coming back in rain for as long as humans have existed.

[spamvigilante]

@Me102288 Why don't you fill a tub with water and stuck your head under the flow? You're stupid enough to try it.

Try this for size: Adding water vapor to the biosphere in concentrations that did not exist prior (remember, it comes from separating CO2 from LNG), increases the amounts. It did not exist in the atmosphere prior to the synthetic introduction of the chemical compound.

Obviously, you're so thick that you unable to perform critical thinking. The clerk mentality suits you.

[Me102288]

@spamvigilante over simplifying? if you honestly think math states you cant get more energy from using less energy, go lookup a fuk'in wind turbine. I'm tired of ppl over complicating simple things to bullshit other ppl.

water vapour in the atmopsphere are called clouds, they been around before Man, and the world didn't destroy itself.. WE ARE THE ONES DESTROYING THE PLANET.

[spamvigilante]

@Me102288 I'm sorry that you are so dim as to not realize that in the case of burning hydrogen, the water vapor in the atmosphere WAS NOT THERE. Then, you burn hydrogen and IT IS THERE. Obviously, this simple fact eludes you. ADDITION of water vapor... addition of a greenhouse gas that did not exist prior.

HOW STUPID CAN YOU POSSIBLY BE?

[Vulcan750L]

@Me102288

Water vapor are not necessarily clouds. Water vapor is the water contained in the air. Look up the word HUMIDITY.

CO2 is also part of the Earth's atmosphere just like clouds and water vapor are. CO2 has also been around long before man and used to be much more abundant. Having an atmosphere rich in CO2 is not going to destroy the planet. Plants thrive on CO2. You don't like plants?

[Me102288]

@Vulcan750L yes I know, I have never argue'ed co2 is bad, and humidiity no matter how high will always fall because of our little friend gravity. But anyway, I find it funny he doesnt mention all the other nasty chemicals we have been pumping into the atmosphere for the last what 100 years? Ha I remember a facility in Nanicoke that turned they're scrubbers off at night to save money :-\ Could see the huge yellow stream across the horizon. Sad.

[Vulcan750L]

@Me102288

Gravity has no effect on humidity. Clouds, however, will rain if there is too much water droplets built up in a particular cloud. It is possible to have more clouds and higher humidity as the earth warms.

Water vapor (humidity) and clouds are not really the same thing. Clouds are tiny water droplets clinging on to tiny airborne dust particles, mostly pollen, and are high up in the sky. Water vapor is all around you, including in your house and the room you're sitting in.

[Me102288]

@Vulcan750L lol, so everyone thinks global warming is caused by water.. I find that hard to believe, global warming is caused by us and the billions of vehicles spewing noxious gas's into the atmosphere. Earth never had a problem until we "evolved"

And your still argue'ina moot point, since engines running hho dont spew humidityy, the emmision is water

[Vulcan750L]

@Me102288

Hydrogen engines do emit water vapor. The water that comes out of the exhaust pipe is mostly water vapor because it is hot so it is a steam. Some of that water condenses right away when it hits the cooler air and turns back into water droplets that drip out of the tailpipe.

But, the water that drips out eventually evaporates and turns into water vapor. Where do you think the water vapor in the air comes from? It comes from evaporation.

[Me102288]

@Vulcan750L lol, then the answer is simple, the exaust will be an internal still, one of the ways t get clean water lol, go figure.

So any other probs? the tailpipe can be stuffed back into the water tank if thats to hard.

[Vulcan750L]

@Me102288

The other "pollutants", like nitrogen, nitrous oxide, sulfur, and soot particulate matter (carbon) are also good for plants. Some of that stuff is harmful to humans and animals if we breathe in too much of it at concentrated levels. But, you rarely see that kind of emissions anymore due to environmental regulation controls, at least not in the US and Europe. Developing countries like China and India are in the process of implementing similar regulations.

[Vulcan750L]

@Me102288

And spamvigilante is right. Water vapor is a greenhouse gas. Water vapor and clouds are responsible for about 75% of global warming. Some global warming is good. If not for not for greenhouse gases, the Earth would be a very cold place, maybe a permanent ice age.

[Me102288]

@Vulcan750L you right, but I'm talking about the subject of this video, not EV. 40 miles is great for those who only need to travel that far... but what about the others that travel farther? I think you'd get a lot farther use'in that electricty to generate hho. with tiny engine, ya, but then again, the engines in most cars are larger then needed so you can get a speeding ticket. So I'ts still a big trade off. so how long you figure it would take to put in recharging stations every 40 miles?

[Vulcan750L]

@Me102288

I was also talking about this video. I started out asking about the Ovshinskys and their hydrogen car. And it went on from there with you arguing that the evil oil companies had "swept it under the rug". The last few exchanges have been about you arguing with me about why the EV is not a much bigger threat to the oil companies than the hydrogen car ever was ending our oil dependency, spelling the end for the oil companies.

[Me102288]

@Vulcan750L yup, but then again, if you look closely, this video says HYDROGEN hopes.. not EV hopes... lol think I'd rather not buy a $50000 dollar car that only goes 300 miles at best, even if it doesn't polute, when I could convert my current vehicle to use hydroxy.. So unless there's a big electrical socket every 300 miles these "EV" are glorified golf carts. They are no threat to the oil company I agree, they're probably laughing there ass off. at ppl.

[Vulcan750L]

@Me102288

You spent most of the time talking about Brown's Gas and hybrids, so don't give me that crap about "if you look closely, this video says HYDROGEN hopes.. not EV hopes".

Have some integrity and stop being so full of shit!

[Me102288]

@Vulcan750L lol you mentioned ev's, thats what pulled it off subject lol

[Vulcan750L]

@Me102288

Again, you keep talking about the hybrids! I'm talking about the EVs! Jesus!!!!

Ok, lets talk about the hybrids then. The Volt's (hybrid) 40 mile ranged batteries have an engine for a backup and extend the range to 350 miles. EVs have a range of 100 -300 mile range, depending on which one you get.

Dude! Why don't you just reread my last half dozen comments cause you apparently did not absorb the info. I'm having to constantly repeat myself.

[Vulcan750L]

@Me102288

It will be 1 or 2 decades before we have recharging stations and battery swapping stations everywhere, all across the country. But, EVs are not intended for cross country driving. If you want to do that, get a hybrid, like the Volt, that can be driven like a standard car getting refueled with gas along the way.

EV's don't necessarily have to have infrastructure all over the place, but it would be nice, and will be available in the future. But within 20 yrs., they won't need it.

[Me102288]

@Vulcan750L I've always been talking abpout hho running cars, you went off with EV's read the name of the video.. P,s your wrong about the power of hydrogen one mole of hydrogen COMBUSTED give's off 241.8 kJ of energy, convert that to foot pounds of energy pushing down on the pistons in a combustion engine is 5.7 KILOTONS. much more energy then 100 gallons of gasoline.

[Vulcan750L]

@Me102288

If you don't think electric cars are a threat to the oil companies, then you are an idiot.

How often do you drive more than 300 miles in one day? I've done that only half a dozen times in my lifetime. Very few people drive more than a hundred miles in a day. An electric car that can do over 100 miles will meet the needs of 90% of the driving public and will kill off the oil industry. If you can't see that, you are an idiot.

[Me102288]

@Vulcan750L Lol, personally I really couldn't care about which way we stop use'ing fossil fuels. 300 miles, what about transport trucks? I see a lot of them putting in hho units.. you see... this EV stuck is great, but it wont work on everything, you imagine an airplane with electric motors? maybe later on when we advance in energy storing technology, but as for now, hho will help all aplications on the entire planet, not just cars.. Since like you say, they rarely go 300miles.

[Vulcan750L]

@Me102288

EVs can't do everything or fill every need currently, but they do fulfill our biggest transportation needs. I didn't say that EVs were 100% of the solution. I said about 90% of our transportation needs. And I was talking about electric cars, not heavy trucks or ships or airplanes. Bio-fuels can fill those needs. Oil is history!

Hydrogen might have some role in certain applications, but it is EV that will dominate and kill off oil, not hydrogen.

[Me102288]

@Vulcan750L got swept under the carpet so the oil company can force you to pay for fossil fuels :-\

[Vulcan750L]

@Me102288

I don't think the Ovshinskys care about whether or not the oil companies make any money. They have no reason to sweep it under the rug unless it just never made any economic sense, either in terms of monetary cost or energy cost.

I see no evidence of the oil companies trying to stop competing technologies, on the contrary, they are investing in it.

[Me102288]

@Vulcan750L LOL. I guess you can believe that, after all why would a 100 billion dollar company want to keep making 10 billion a year if there's an alternative that they cant make money off of... well, truthfully, you'd probably just pay them off and make the technology disappear.. like the last 100 or so years.. you might want to reconsider ppl have been killing ppl for no reason at all... yet you think they wouldn't kill for 100 billion dollars? lol your nieve kid..

[Vulcan750L]

@Me102288

Your "LOL" and calling me a naive kid shows your ignorance and arrogance. I'm 47, by the way, you arrogant ass. You can't even spell "naive" . . . LOL

[Me102288]

@Vulcan750L cool I'm 45, 46 this december... yup judging somone by they're spelling gotta be the sure fire way of telling intelligence... lol I dunno about you I've seen a lot of ppl are killing for a lot less.

[bubbabrotha]

the two people who disliked this are probably from texas...

[peppersdog1]

water is the fuel of the future

[Me102288]

@peppersdog1 damn right I'm one step away from running my friends 350 chev on it, funny he doesnt know crap about hydrogen, but as soon as I told him the octane of brown's gas lol he almost fell over, lol standard gasoline is 87 to 100 typically, hho (brown's gas, hyroxy, blah blah) is 122 to 130, guess we know wgere the "big bang" theory came from :-)

[prop23FAIL]

Thank you PBS,

Great stuff on your channel -- keep it up! We need to invest more in these industries but in California, prop 23 is a threat to those investments. Prop 23 is down in the polls, but the Yes on 23 campaign just got a new influx of hot, anonymous cash, so we'll need to fend them off in the home stretch to Election Day.

Hit me back if you'd like to talk Prop 23. We're coming out with a bunch of great No on Prop 23 videos soon!

- prop23FAIL

[prop23FAIL]

Thank you PBS,

Great stuff on your channel -- keep it up! We need to invest more in these industries but in California, prop 23 is a threat to those investments. Prop 23 is down in the polls, but the Yes on 23 campaign just got a new influx of hot, anonymous cash, so we'll need to fend them off in the home stretch to Election Day.

Hit me back if you'd like to talk Prop 23. We're coming out with a bunch of great No on Prop 23 videos soon!

- prop23FAIL

[Rainkkoat]

tHIS IS STUNING, CAN-T WAIT TILL THE DAY ALL OF THOSE TECHONOLOGIES FINALLY SEE THE SUNLIGHT IN OURS ECONOMIES; BUT CAN-T STAND OUT THE REASONS WHY KEY PEOPLE AREN=T GOING AFTER INNOVATIVE IDEAS OF MAKING MONEY.

[Kinemacolour]

How energy is produced is irrelevant. There are just too many people.

[EPAofConcord]

EPAOC is Environmental Photovoltaics & Applications of Concord, We offer Solar,Wind,& all forms of Alternative Energy Products. Our Primary Goal is to assist a Million Homes Produce and Manufacture Energy On Their Own Terms.

[newagemotor]

HHO generator - electrolyzer at a gas station in Europe to create hydrogen gas for automotive use.

[aleon1018]

This video is almost 5 years old. So, what's happened since then?

[tommo39]

HA! "that'll turn out to be a thing that people do. You know, smelling each other's tail pipes."

[shfbdfi1273]

"You know, smelling each other's tail pipes." That's like smell each other's fart.

[salvadorsalvona]

is this being supressed by the govt,i don't see this on tv or news!

[dirtyratmiller]

Why don't we just stop driving? I don't.

[EinstienZer0]

If the Hydrogen can be made from water via electrolysis and water is the byproduct of using the hydrogen fuel why waste it at all I say install a reclaimer, and reuse it. making it come full circle.

[Aaronator01]

Yea, but you still need energy to break the O2 bonds off the Hydrogen. In the reaction of combustion, the chemical process Gives energy, but you have to break it back down into hydrogen before you can use it again... which means an equal amount of energy INPUT. Our best bet is to make Solar Hydrogen production/fuel stations. The initial investment is worth the lifetime payoff. Then hydrogen stations are like environmentally friendly pit stops that keep your pocket and fuel tank full.

[newagemotor]

YEAH - but you can get that energy from the wind and the sun - and do it for the cost of the equipment and water alone !

[Me102288]

@EinstienZer0 it already does a full circle, just like rain.. I agree though, if you stuck your tailpipe back in your water tank you'd uh, oh wait that cant be done because ppl are saying it would break the law of overunity.. lol bet ya the guy who wrote that law just pissed himself in his grave.. lol bend laws? nah we'll just snap em  like a twig :-)

[alan1320x]

2:16 this looks like a perfect recipe for black ice on a sub zero road, if hydrogen is the future and every car on the road is doing what this one does, a solution will need to be found.

[anthropositor]

Yes, you are correct. However, there is no reason the precipitated water needs to drip from the exhaust pipe. We can easily trap the condensate and dump it at a parked location. And during most weather conditions, well above the freezing point, there would be no problem at all.

[cliknstik]

How is hydrogen produced ?

[spamvigilante]

Unfortunately, most hydrogen today is produced by chemically breakdown of liquified natural gas, a fossil fuel. And worse, carbon dioxide is emitted in the process.

But if we can develop a cheap method of using electrolysis of water, we're home free. Supposedly solar, wind and geothermal are solutions but are still somewhat incomplete and expensive.

[shfbdfi1273]

Hydrogen is dangerous. Remember the Space Shuttle hydrogen tank explosion.

[sihanling]

@shfbdfi1273 Do not spread half truths. It was one of the two solid rocket boosters that sprung an ignited leak. The failing booster then blew up and this explosion finally detonated the external tank which contains liquid H2 and Oxigen oxidiser tank. The shuttle tanks have never failed on their own.

[Me102288]

@sihanling what? the space shuttle that blew up? one of the o-rings sealing the containers was faulty. could have been any fuel , would have still been a disaster.

[TireLift]

make it on demand then .

[simontimon2]

It take electricity to make Hydrogen from water, currently 80% of the US energy are produced by burning coal, so your not solving anything.

[spamvigilante]

@simontimon2 If electrolysis were being used, you'd be correct. But once again, most hydrogen is produced today by chemical breakdown of liquified natural gas.

[spamvigilante]

@simontimon2 Thank you for your rectal-extracted analysis. If ever you wish to return to planet Earth and suggest a comment based upon fact and reality, it would be appreciated.

[Theimmortalwhitewolf]

@simontimon2 Yes, but for countries like Iceland and several other high producers of renewable energy, they can make their own hydrogen with very little pollution and then sell it becoming the best energy capitals in the next few decades in which time the rest of the developed world will meet just about all their energy needs from renewables as well.

[simontimon2]

@Theimmortalwhitewolf Yah, how smart of you to make a predition so far ahead that people will forget you got it wroung.

[Theimmortalwhitewolf]

@simontimon2 So far ahead? Im talking in the next 10 to 15 years. Just last month it was announced over the coming year, officials plan to install about 1,500 electric charge stations across Tennessee and extreme Northwest Georgia at rest areas, welcome centers, malls and big-box stores. Another 1,000 charging stations will be put in the homes of early-bird buyers of the all-electric Nissan Leaf. The future for the vast majority of cars will be either electric or hydrogen.

[simontimon2]

@Theimmortalwhitewolf Time will tell who is right.

[Theimmortalwhitewolf]

@simontimon2 So your jump on me and complain that Im wrong about my prediction in about the next 30 years. If Im so wrong why don't you point out trends in the last 5 years that would lead you to make a prediction of the near future? Unless your ready to make your own predication, don't be throwing stones at those that do.

[Theimmortalwhitewolf]

@simontimon2 Or maybe a comb of both. The fact is there is plenty of energy that can be caught from renewables to make all the hydrogen we need we power just about everything that requires oil. I see hydrogen having the edge if they well to mass produce hybrids of hydrogen electric vehicles on the simple fact you get the best of both worlds. The fast refills of hydrogen with the fuel savings brought out by the car been powered by a electric motor.

[Theimmortalwhitewolf]

@simontimon2 Detroit's NextEnergy was the site Thursday morning of the unveiling of the first electric car battery recharging station in Michigan by California-based Coulomb Technologies, part of a rollout of 4,600 free charging stations it is installing nationwide.

The company is giving away 2,000 free charging stations to purchasers of electric cars and will install 2,600 free public charging stations in nine regions around the county.

[Me102288]

@Theimmortalwhitewolf they'll need one every 150 to 200 miles, or everyone's going to need one long freakin extension cord..pfft this will take decades to implement. By that time, hydroxy power cars are going to be in everyone's driveway because they're only liimited to how much water you need to carry (about 1 gallon for a 1200 mile trip) since hydrogen is an atomic fuel.

[Theimmortalwhitewolf]

@simontimon2 How about you make your own prediction about the future. How will the cars be powered since by ~ 2050 most of the oil that is economically viable to get out of the ground will be gone. The price for a barrel of oil will sky rocket and very few people will be able to afford it. Economies powered by it will basically come to a grinding stop. So what do you think will happen in energy the next 30 to 40 years?

[Me102288]

@Theimmortalwhitewolf Brown's gas, its the only fuel that turnsback to a fuel when combusted :-\.. By 2050? well, maybe if that big meteor flying at us missed in 2036. (meteor "Apophis") I guess history does repeat itself :-o

[Theimmortalwhitewolf]

@Me102288 well there is hope in researching fuels made from algae. Since it absorbs CO2 during its life span it removes CO2 even though it gets released back after its burnt you have a fuel source that will constantly replenish itself through photosynthesis. Blue algae currently researched in Spain, a simple number crunch shows a roughly 170 mile^2 area could meet all the oil needs of the USA.

[Theimmortalwhitewolf]

@Me102288 If you wanted you could pipe highly concentrated CO2 released from coal fire electric plants to grow the algae then in turn use the algae as a fuel source which would then turn into CO2 to sue for the next generation of fuel supply.

[Me102288]

@simontimon2 to bad hydrogen was dicovered 300 years ago, it isnt a prediction, it will happen when we run out of fossil fuels or we all go back to the stone age... you got any other way to replace fuel? I'd love to hear it.

[Iamthegreen]

@spamvigilante I remember hearin some guy is producing hydrogen by submerging silicon in water and then using light to break the molecules apart.

[spamvigilante]

@Iamthegreen Oh good. So long as "some guy" is doing that. Maybe if you save bottle caps, some girl will get her chemotherapy for free also. Any other hoaxes you wish to share?

[Me102288]

@spamvigilante natural gas? kidding me right.. might want to lookup electrolysis and water....

[spamvigilante]

@Me102288 You might want to pay attention to fact and reality. Electrolysis costs almost as much in energy input as is obtained out of it. Hence, natural gas is used today as a cheaper alternative source of hydrogen.

It is time for you to seek actual fact instead of spouting unsubstantiated nonsense. You have a source that says otherwise? Please cite it.

[Me102288]

@spamvigilante lol electrolysis is most effecient at 1.48 volts aat 15 amps, roughly the power of a 60 watt light bulb.. wonder how much electricy it takes to refine natural gas and ship it through a pipeline....

Have a happy time paying for fuel for the rest of your life dude.

[Me102288]

@spamvigilante LOL 180watts per mole of hydrogen is more then the output of 241 kilo joules... your math in very flawed, plus if you really needed hydrogen, aluminum, water and lye = hydrogen output.. No electricty required. Think first... speak later.

[spamvigilante]

@Me102288 So if you have the secret to cheap and abundant hydrogen, why is the vast bulk of commercial hydrogen created today from liquified natural gas and resulting in large quantities of CO2 into the atmosphere?

Do commercial enterprises like spending more money than they have to in order to create a product for sale? Do they perform this function just to make me happy?

DUH!

Sorry, the facts prove your spurious claims as dubious at best; fraudulent in most likelihood.

[spamvigilante]

Today, most hydrogen is produced by chemical breakdown of natural gas. You know, a fossil fuel. The hopes are that in the future, electrolysis and photovoltaic cells will become efficient enough to separate hydrogen from oxygen in water but it is not economically feasible yet.

[shon9514]

Those algae filters should be forced upon polluting factories and manufactureres. In the future I think it will be illegal to dispose of ANY co2 or other harmful chemicals into the free air. Carbon scrubbers like on the space shuttle will be required everywhere, just like how I could supply myself with my own hydro simply by using my roof 'properly'. Hopefully prices come down so its feasable and economical.

[Girak4949]

Alan Alda is a badass!

[shfbdfi1273]

Why, is he gay?

[johnson1095]

@Girak4949 He couldn't be too mutch of a dumbass to be portraid on Fam. Guy.

[maulcs]

joy