Class War: Low Wages and Beggar Thy Neighbor

[christo930]

So not having inflation is just as bad as having inflation? When there is no inflation, you can save your money without exposing it to risk, but when there is inflation, you need to "invest" your savings and expose them to risk just to keep the same purchasing power. This is the main point that the inflationists miss. Inflation also encourages debt because of the value of future payments.

[danpt2000]

What we have in the Western Civilization is Crony Capitalism. The Capitalists want socialism for themselves, and capitalism for lower classes.

[sinekonata]

I cannot understand how fashion can be taken into account when talking about politics. Why are words like communism or class-war so useless now as you cannot pronounce them in a political discussion if you want to be taken seriously. I am not stating a fact, I actually want to know if someone has any idea about the ridiculous relationship between politics (i.e. the way power is distributed and its ways) and fashion.

[rctube1958]

Warmed-over communism.

[rctube1958]

@OldSchoolSkill Doesn't everyone deserve to earn money just because they have money? Why not the rich? Also members of the "rich" class go broke all the time. Completely, belly-up broke. There are protected members who are not allowed to go broke, for example, the elite bankers of today.

[clockworkscott]

everyone in the world should watch this video. 

[saumacus]

@OldSchoolSkill Sometimes they do. Like in 1889 and after, and in 1917 and following years. The rich might lose not only all of their wealth, but they lives, too. My guess is, that's why (among other things) the rich in Europe were much more willing to accept higher taxes, etc.: they remember what can happen if revolution erupts.

[waldentree]

Outstanding. A brilliant way to look at how the money controllers exploit the real producers of wealth.

[jogurtkulturaa]

čovik pametan si ali opet ide teza o nacističkoj njemačkoj, jedino što ovi smradovi rade je G-20 sastanak kako još proširit tržište, osnovni problem je što je u glob. svijetu tržište postala osoba, suveren koje može tužit države (oganiziranje ljudi na određenom prostoru) ako tu iluzornu osobu koja ne postoji povrijede --- pretjerivam radi poante, jedino što obama trenutno radi po mojim saznanjima je daljnje širenje tržišta

[jogurtkulturaa]

republicans you are those guys watch?v=2B413NljCwI --- "Shut him up." "We have a lot invested in this ride. Shut him up. Look at my furrows of worry. Look at my big bank account and my family. This just has to be real." It's just a ride.

[Bankstercide]

A german being dismissive of US Republicans is very gratifying. It's not just the "radical left" who thinks they are a bunch of clowns.

Another way of defining "Class Warfare" is not only Capital vs. Labour, but Money Power vs. People Power. If you frame it that way, I believe americans would understand it better.

[fight2Bfree]

by what process did the german government reduce the wages of the population? Did they reduce the minimum wage set by law? Did they increase taxes? Print more money? HOw?

[olatveiten]

@fight2Bfree

There is no general minimum wage in Germany.

The transformed the system of unemployment relief. For example unemployed people have to execept any kind of work independend of their qualification, if not, the relief will be decreased. (wikipedia: Hartz concept)

They changed the laws for temporary work. This way labor contracts could be dodged.

[RedTory59]

@TheSpeckofdust Aside from being a hateful bigot, you're clearly insane.

[Austyg]

Seems to me Dr. Heiner Flassbeck in this vid. suggests that Germany did a sort of mild chinafication of wages on the German people---no wage raises despite increases in productivity of workers. Now the USA has been doing its own chinafication of U.S. population wages for the last 25 years already.

[Provakator]

@Austyg Well if you talk to people from Germany, all of them say that life actually got much harder since they've joined Euro. Dr. Flassbeck had just explained why.

[nmm12nmm]

deflation is not worse then inflation. This is an attempt to make Greece look good for doing bad. And blame Germany for doing the right thing. Can't wait for the Euro to finally fail.

[elbowbiter1]

There will always be a class war if there is a divide between owners of capital and labour. Luckily we are doing away with the labour factor in the equation and with it the owners. Capitalism and all other 'isms' requiring money and markets are being phased out by technology. You don't have to agree with me, it's happening as we speak, whether you like it or not. Money and markets are obsolete. The class war is obsolete. Embrace the future or shut up and get the hell out of the way.

[Austyg]

@elbowbiter1 ... which coroporation is going to manufacture personal computers and sell them for $35/ea, mobile phones for $45/ea., cars for $249.99/ea.? Let alone for free. Who? How? Why?

[elbowbiter1]

@Austyg You sound angry at the notion that you may lose the society that has brought you war, corruption, ecological degradation, poverty and famine? Instead ask yourself, "how will the current system deal with planned obsolecence, and technological unemployment?" When you realize it can't... you'll realize the inevitability of the demise of money/market systems. When it happens, you'll look back on these days and scratch your head as to why you thought it was so good. ;) Peace.

[lordblazer]

@elbowbiter1

"Time will become the new currency. People will stop aging at 25, and they "will have to earn their time ont his planet or die3 instantly this is true darwinism!! survival of the fittest!!! this is the law of nature, and human civilization should emulate it not protect ourselves against it!!!!!! muwahahah the libertarians win in the film "InTime"" --SomeSarcasticDouche

[elbowbiter1]

@lordblazer Hah, yeah that movie frustrated the piss out of me. Not too many flicks paint the future in a positive light. If I had a say in how that script was written it would have been about how in that type of society those that liver forever can't reproduce (a way more likely scenario). The Logon's Runish part could revolve around how the main character decided to have a kid and stay immortal. At the end, he would die, and the moral of the story would be: having kids is selfish.

[lordblazer]

@elbowbiter1

nothing is wrong with having kids... It kinda is what makes us well a living and surviving species. The thing about that society is that it is well prettty ass backwards, but it is a direction I see this society going. Not the whole Time being currency, but the general more mainstream acceptance of libertarianism as if unregulated capitalism hasn't been done before when it clearly has been done before. A lot of people have no understanding of history or what's beyond their face

[elbowbiter1]

@lordblazer "nothing wrong with having kids" Yes at present it is a necessity. However, given that there are people out there starving to death... chosing to have children puts additional burden on resources that aren't getting to everyone. In essence it is stealing. Granted, the money/market system requires people to needlessly starve, but all things being equal, adding one more mouth to feed increases the burden on the system. Having kids is a selfish act, it might be amoral too.

[lordblazer]

@elbowbiter1

it is pretty ass backwards because you think that we would've had some colonies in space. so now using time as money i wouldn't think that is possible. its kinda a sadistic system. Anyway if applied in real life it wouldn't work.

[elbowbiter1]

@Austyg Also, note that I said that money and market systems are becoming obsolete. When they are obsolete why did you automatically continue to assume that corporations will be pumping out goods and selling them for money? The answer is, there won't be any corporations, and there won't be any price tags. Now ask yourself, "Do I really believe that a society like this is impossible?" If you answer yes, then there is no point in further discussion. If you answer no... good for you.

[Austyg]

@elbowbiter1 ... well, there were no corporations in Cambodia under the tyrant Pol Pot, only forced labor farming under the butt of guns---killing fields. Is that a viable alternative economic system? Not in my view.

[elbowbiter1]

@Austyg I like your black and white thinking my friend. We are schooled in this society to believe that if a society is fundamentally different than ours it must be a rabid murder-a-thon and we have a knee jerk reaction to site examples of scieties gone wrong. Furthermore, Pol Pots society had something in common with ours: Money and Markets. Try to imagine a technologically advanced society with out (money & markets) and you'll be closer to the mark. Peace Austyg.

[Austyg]

@elbowbiter1 ... I certainly welcome visions of a new social where wealth is more equitably distributed. At the very least, societies free of exploitative institutions would be appreciated.

[elbowbiter1]

@Austyg What about societies with a completely new perspective on what wealth is?

[Austyg]

@elbowbiter1 -- Yes, a reconceptualization of what wealth is piques my interest. Would you posit one example?

[elbowbiter1]

@Austyg A resource based society.

[Austyg]

@elbowbiter1 -- Most of the world economies today are based on exploitation of natural resources, no?

[elbowbiter1]

@Austyg true but the difference is we have a money/market middle man between us and those resources. Google it for links to better info describing what it looks like.

[CommanderIsm]

interest = inflation = the capitalist system.

wake up.

[r0ll0t0masi]

The chart just shows which traitors the left parties in Germany are...

[worldismorphing]

The aphorism -"To each, according to his merit" (19th century) morphed into

-"To each, according to the work he has accomplished" [20th century up to 1980 -- (actually 1971, but that's a long story..;-)]

and THEN

-"To each, according to the salary his work deserves...according to the markets...". (from the 80's to this day..)

Pretty neat evolution: Glenn Beck is worth more then Paul Jay ...so we know it's earned and thus his contribution to society is that much greater...works like a charm...

[MarkoKraguljac]

Absolutely brilliant.

[shintsu01]

very interesting talk ! that opened my eyes quite a bit on this subject

[NoCommentChick]

@TheSpeckofdust Take your grudges elsewhere you racist piece of shit.

[BoredomCorner]

@TheSpeckofdust Speak for yourself, my problems all stem from white conservatives.

[Mahoivlich]

Wow.

[restlys]

Guys at the real news.....fuckin change this stupid title. This presentation is really good, but if i share it on facebook all my conservative friends will ignore it simply due to the title.

Why would we want to preach to the quire?

[Nieves57]

The race to the bottom happened. 

[1x93cm]

From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs

hmm...heard that somewhere before....

[atosafi1]

@1x93cm The phrase was coined by a French democratic socialist a.k.a social democrat and later popularized by Karl Marx.

[szabi76]

excellent talk, thank you for a fresh perspective!!!

[h0tie]

The financial union is facing a crisis and everyone is talking about jumping ship its definitely not going to end well if they don't change their mindset

[bhikshuni]

Too bad the policy started 30 years ago! Better late than never? Isn''t the public too dumbed down for math and economics or even any meta-level thinking nowadays?

[Magenta408]

Live according to your means!!

[kamalalovely]

Thank you. That was a great talk, and very chilling.

[237Michael]

Excellent ! Crony Capitalism is destroying our Western democracies. I hope that next Spring the 99% who are the victims of this system come in mass to the streets and finish the revolution they started this year. 

[kamalalovely]

@237Michael Yes, I agree. It may be our only hope.

[Eddyking5]

@237Michael "Crony Capitalism"?

The crony is redundant. Capitalism has always been 'crony'.

[237Michael]

@Eddyking5 Maybe you're right. So, maybe we should call it something like "Extra-Crony or Super-Crony Capitalism". See the definition of "Crony Capitalism" by Wikipedia.

[spyletu]

never getting that first job to train up your skill and begin moving up at an early age up the skill ladder would be a real disaster

[Stringyheads]

This guy knows his shit.

[CommanderIsm]

@Stringyheads

no he does not - he is arguing micro economics for the macro economic picture.

the system he is arguing for has to continually grow to catch up for the money he has to borrow to pay the interest on what he has borrowed.

kind of stupid.

surely you must have noticed how the numbers always just get bigger!

[Stringyheads]

I never thought i would have to understand Global economics in such depth and when i see it its not that hard really but now i know i have to understand global economics and i encourage everyone to try to understand it. The best method to do this is to first understand the meanings of terms used and phrases used. then all this will make much more sense.

[plalelal]

@Stringyheads Nah, their too busy watchin football, golfing, playin x bow, shopping, the sheeple are clueless!

[Stringyheads]

@plalelal Yep well maybe they will not like the next way to learn (The hard way) once their is no football, Xbox and nothing in the shops to by because no oil trading as the dollar is not backed well, No transport = No food on Super market shelves, Only trucks will be able to use what little oil supply there is. US and Iran at war yep i know its all fucked up Golf well you wont be able to drive to the course Infact there will not be booze at the clubhouse. the list is endless. cheers.

[Stringyheads]

Fuck it im printing my own currency, Who's got a money printer for sale?

It shouldn't be that hard as my Money needs no backing, I just follow what the FED is doing.

[midplanewanderer]

The truth spoken here will eventually become apparent to everyone, everywhere, who actually has to work for a living, and witness their declining quality of life while the super-rich get richer. (China is the ultimate Slave-state. China in particular has apparently proven that Capitalism works "best" under restrictive non-democratic regimes where workers have the right ......to go fuck themselves. Disgusting. Most of my electronics and plastic-fantastic gee-gaws I own came from China).

[JackofOneTrade567]

The only solution is smaller govt.

[Austyg]

"Obama incites class warfare!" scream the Republicans . . . AS THOUGH warfare against the U.S. working and middle classes had not been unleashed since the Reagan Administration by Wall Street, by U.S. politicians bought by banks, and by every US corporation (Apple, 3M, GM, Microsoft, and hundreds more) that has shipped thousands of jobs to paltry-wage workers in China, Thailand, Honduras, India, etc. They yell "class warfare" only when the American People seek to stop the hand whipping them.

[supermaucat]

Dr Flassbeck nailed it! Amazing talk... thank you.