"Your race are suffering ... the greatest wrong inflicted on any people. But even when you cease to be slaves, you are yet far removed from being placed on an equality with the white race. You are cut off from many of the advantages which the other race enjoy. The aspiration of men is to enjoy equality...when free, but on this broad continent, not a single man of your race is made the equal of a single man of ours." ---- Abraham Lincoln, August 14, 1862, 4 months prior to the Emancipation
While I appreciate the fervor that rosemarie and HopeForPeace have on the issues, it is getting somewhat old. I don't think either of you have to respond to every single post the other one makes.
I'm writing a documentary on the dynamic of malinformation. That is - people basing destructive paradigms on wrong information. I'm aware that modern confederates will find it offensive that I put them in that category, but the people caught inside the veil of lies are always unable to realize the truth. All confed pages are full of lies and rationalizations which enable pride their heritage. Die hards argue that slavery was a side issue in 1850. Rose is a perfect example.
"there were people for and against slavery," rosemarie
I asked you weeks ago - how many abolitionists were there in the South?
I realize that those who want to cling to their pride in their heritage want to pretend that that heritage was NOT slavery. That slavery was no big deal.
In reality, it drove the political debate for 50 years before the war.
Saying John Brown securing guns and the fighting in Kansas had little to do with slavery simple makes MY point.
@HopeForPeaceNow I see the civil war as a mistake by the south. John Brown was very bad, he raided and killed useing the excuse of be a abolitionist, but really he kept saying it was all for his religion. he was half crazy. like i have told you before you can not read. i didn't say that slavery was not there. i said it was not the main issue. yes some of the people fought over slavery for years, most of them bible thumpers against the plantation owners. but so many other things were important.
""If it is deemed necessary that I should forfeit my life for the furtherance of the ends of justice, and mingle my blood further with the blood of my children and with the blood of millions in this slave country whose rights are disregarded by wicked, cruel, and unjust enactments-I submit; so let it be done."
John Brown .
"John Brown was very bad, he raided and killed"
None should take pride in the 5 he killed.
Neither should anyone take pride in Southern heritage.
"you just can not understand the fact that the south lost, and the north won."rosemarie443
Profoundly stupid thing to say.
I realize confederates today would argue for 10 years that the civil war had little to do with slavery. Only then can you feign pride in that heritage. It is a lie, and a sad one.
America is still reeling from your heritage of slavery and segregation. To profess pride in it still today help us not at all.
No, common intelligence would help you realize it is silly to say that "you just can not understand the fact" ..."that the south lost, and the north won.'
I obviously understand that. You are attempting to claim that I am so stupid I can't even get who won the civil war...... when you yourself claim that slavery was a sideshow in a culture based on slavery.
You are displaying exactly what I say confederates display - rationalizations to venerate a past of slavery and lynching.
@HopeForPeaceNow NO i am not saying that you are stupid . what i am trying to say it that it is over a long time ago and things can not be changed, and as long as the southern people hang onto this civil war, they are living in a dream world.
@rosemarie443 we r all americans if u i & a few others had a club that met evry so often could i leev at my own free wil if u dont like your cell phone company becuse of yor reasons shouldnt u be able 2 change plans do you celebrate the july4th we pay more taxes now than we did under british rule is the 4th of july celebrating freedom in all realality you livin n a dream world no im not trying to pick a fight on hear u jst seem like someone tht it would be fun to have a freindly debate with
uwnt afend me cuz u hav yorright 2yor opinyun as ido 2 myn & ibeleev tht states hav theriht 2 leevthe us if thrpeople vote2choose 2doso jst lik a county has the riht 2 sceed frm the state & atownfrm the conty if a curtan peple dont like theway thr gov is run who is any 1 2 say tht they shld sty ima opertunist caplist& thy y the usgov spnds my tax dolers like a soshalist republic y nt rally my knd of people & frm wht istruely my vizsonof freedm america y shd i be taxd mor&mor the mor i prsper
the south ask to simply just be left alone they wher invaded and defendid there homes they left in peace and the north invaded so what would you do if someone that you wher the better person and just walkd away and they came to your house statern truble with you my point exsacly you would defend your home and want to be left alone
@FreedomOfDixie NO the south did not want to be left alone, they wanted a fight and the north gave it to them, but the south can not let it go, they still bring it up to this day. the facts are that the south started the civil war, and the north ended it. and the USA lost a lot of men for nothing
@HopeForPeaceNow OK let me put it this way, you do not want to understand the facts. i did not say that slavery was a side show, i said that there were several other things that were more important. I am not a confederate. i am from the north thank you
@HopeForPeaceNow I am not unread, but i think that you might be. but you will never let go of the fact that the south was wrong. when the count comes down yes slavery was a side part of the entire event. there was so many other facts that had to be handled first that slavery came in second. but like i said before, the south started the civil war, and the north finished it, now can you change history
@rosemarie443 "Religious publications sold more copies than any other form of proslavery writing. Ministers, including the Baptist Richard Furman , led the first wave of antebellum proslavery writing in the wake of the slave-revolt conspiracy in Charleston in 1822. Furman's "Exposition of the Views of the Baptists, Relative to the Coloured Population of the United States" (1823) trumpeted the numerous scriptural passages taken to favor slaveholders that would be repeated ad nauseam after 1831."
@HopeForPeaceNow why don't you go a argue with ThankGodIamstillsave she seems to think that she has to shove religion and her opinion down the throat of all who post there
@HopeForPeaceNow well i went to your chanell and you did not say where you are from, mayabe the south, i really do not know, but i am from nebraska which borders kansas so i know about kansas. you do not. NO bleeding kansas main problem was not slavery. you think you know about kansas, and john brown, but you probably do not live in the USA, and are only posting what you have read in books.
@rosemarie443 I'm a native Kansan. A lot was going on in Kansas and Missouri during time known as "Bleeding Kansas". However, to say that slavery had little or nothing to do with it is incorrect. You're off on John Brown as well.
@rexlibris99 so am I. i have lived in Kansas and Nebraska for 73 years so i know them pretty well. slavery was not the reason for the fightning in Kansas. and no there is a painting of John Brown in the capital building and underneath that is a complete story of his lilfe. now if hopeforpeacenow wants to know about "Bleeding Kansas" he can look it up.
"NO bleeding kansas main problem was not slavery." rosemarie443
What I find on confederate channels is a long, intricate narrative of lies, excuses and rationalizations.
When I comment on this - I get lies, excuses and rationalizations.
No. You are still, weeks later, wrong about Bleeding Kansas. It was strictly an armed war over expansion of slavery - proslavery vs antislavery forces. Simple.
"but i am from nebraska which borders kansas so i know about kansas. you do not."
Let me restate that . So you don't pick that apart. Pennsylvania was the only Union Commonwealth occupied by the CSA . I don't want you coming back saying that Pennsylvania isn't the only Commonwealth state. I know that. Kentucky, Massachusetts, Virginia and Pa. use it.
@HopeForPeaceNow well you can not change history no matter how hard you try. the south started the civil war and the North ended it. there were 3 main problems, and i have told you about them. the color of your skin makes no difference to me. but history has been written so live with it. you just want to talk about slavery, why are you a black person? slavery was NOT the big problem
"the fight in bloody Kansas was not about slavery. neither was John Brown." rosemarie443
You make these ridiculous statements - but then you never back them up - you just answer with more ridiculous statements.
You amke my point - to support pride in southern heritage of slavery adn segregation, you have to lie and rationalize. That in itself should signal to you that you are wrong.
Why bicker on Youtube about what caused the Civil War, or any point of political contention? It'll inevitably devolve into an ideological shouting match. If you want to enter into a meaningful conversation on the subject, you should take the time to (gasp) read up on what you're talking about, or at the very least take a course on it. Then you could actually cite factual sources rather than just repeating what your daddy or whoever told you.
@stether well i have taken a course on this subject at the University, so i think that i can speak my mind with my opinion. now you can read what i told hopefor peacenow.
Hopeforpeacenow, Please you fool. My great great grand father served in the 12th Virginia Cavalry.He did not own a slave and from his writings didn't care about it oneway or the other as most southerns did. You want to change history to fit you're view of what you think. Sorry, As long as men like myself teach the turth, you will just be out of luck.
The south succeeded peaceful. They didn't want the feds to have control over the states. Lincoln, didn't want the union to desolve. So he replenish Fort Sumpter with supplies. The south saw this as a threat so they fire upon Fort Sumpter.
The north imposed tariffs on imported goods which in return increased tariffs on the good from the south. The south had no industry only agriculture such as indigo, cotton, tobacco, rice etc.
if you hate the south so much why the hell would you play a southern song just to bitch about it seriously yes are forefather's fought in the civil war good job everybody can clearly point that out less then 1/3 actually fought for slavery they fought because there home was in trouble that's what real men are not people who argue on youtube because the school said bad things about the south
From the tone of your comments, I can see that you are left-leaning. This isn't meant to be insulting to any beliefs you might hold, but when you are looking at history - be impartial.
to understand the build up to the war read THE CIVIL WAR by ken burns it talks about the political strife and the federal build up of troops to quell the southern insurgents, the real threat was the forced political ideals of the richer nothern industrialists, the war was a necesary factor-A southern boy will survive because we dont give in were not conformists-LBK COMMANDER, Arkansas
The south was fighting for independence. Numerous scholars have investigated and demonstrated that the overwhelming majority of Confederate soldiers did not personally own any slaves. Their father might in many cases, but still most did not. Slaves were expensive. A young man is his prime might cost $1000, and you could buy a farm of four or five hundred acres for that. Most slave owners had only one or two. There were only a few dozen people wealthy enough in the entire south to have slaves.
Are you aware of the politics that lead up to 1860?
It was more specifically expansion of slavery into new territories that was the major bone of contention. The compromise of 1850, the 3/5 compromise, bloody Kansas and the fugitive slave act were political hot buttons and where the battles for power had been fought in the 50 years leading up to the war.
The South was basing it's culture on slavery. The North was moving away from or limiting it.
war is what defines us and no god or weapon of destruction will truly bring peace.
We are human and there for we are blood, death, and destruction. I hate to admit it but these things are actually what define us and make us evolve at a exstream pace
The south was fighting for independence. Numerous scholars have investigated and demonstrated that the overwhelming majority of Confederate soldiers did not personally own any slaves. Their father might in many cases, but still most did not. Slaves were expensive. A young man is his prime might cost $1000, and you could buy a farm of four or five hundred acres for that. Most slave owners had only one or two. There were only a few dozen people wealthy enough in the entire south to have slaves.
and remember, the confederates fired the first shots based upon the fact that the federal government would exercise its legal right, which was again an open act of treason against eh United States and its constitution.
When the southern states ratified the constitution they signed a contract which they openly breached. by leaving union, repossessing federal property, forts, ports, naval bases, federal waters, and denying the authority of the federal government to access such things therein, they committed an act of open treason. slavery was merely a way to glorify the cause.
The war was first and foremost about the legality of secession. Slavery was just the major byproduct. The North tried to preserve slavery to maintain the Union. The South tried to preserve slavery by leaving the Union. War starts because the South left. Then midway through the war both sides tried to get rid of slavery to achieve their respective causes. The North won. The huge majority of Confederates fought for their non-slaveholding Southern commoner way of life from Northern invaders.
@jaranarm Very well put . Let me ask you this . I knew that the South was going to arm the slaves in 1865 but didn't know anything about the getting rid of slavery midway part . Do you have any ref to that . Thanks
In 1863, Duncan Kenner, a Confederate diplomat, came up with the plan to emancipate the slaves as a means of gaining independence for the CSA. He was sent by President Jefferson Davis to England and France the following year to convince them to recognize the Confederacy if they would abolish the slave institution, but unfortunately they had already sided with the Union because at that time the war was turning in the North's favor.
@jaranarm Very well put . Haven't heard of the midway thing in the South before . Had heard they were going to arm the slaves to fight in 1865 but not the midway stuff .
It was in talks for a long time, even going as far as sending delegates to the European powers stating they will abolish slavery in return for independence. The actual arming of the slaves didn't come until much later, however, which led to the South's loss. Since they were winning the war at first they didn't feel compelled to start arming anyone else and started doing so after becoming desperate.
@jaranarm Do you have any ref to this ---- It was in talks for a long time, even going as far as sending delegates to the European powers stating they will abolish slavery in return for independence. Or is it just a faith promoting rumor .
Yes, possibly. While it's true they did not officially let blacks (free or slave) serve in the army until much later, that still didn't stop Confederate officers from allowing them to fight from the start anyway. Major Theodore Winthrop was the first Union officer to die in the war. He was shot and killed by a black man serving in the 1st North Carolina Infantry. This was in 1861 when the war started. Ironically, Winthrop was an abolitionist. Go figure.
@jaranarm Not ironic , awesome . Don't like abos . A bunch of busy body females meddling . Hope your story is true cause that is awesome . Sort of like . ''They couldn't hit an elephant from he....
It's true. Look it up. Northern history claims Colonel Elmer Ellsworth was the first Union officer to die in the war, but he was killed by an innkeeper during an invasion of Virginia ordered by Lincoln after the state seceded. Winthrop was killed during an actual battle between the two armies. History ignores this fact as well as ignoring Sam Ashe, the black confederate private who shot Winthrop during the Battle of Big Bethel.
It's true. Look it up. Northern history claims Colonel Elmer Ellsworth was the first Union officer to die in the war, but he was killed by an innkeeper during an invasion of Virginia ordered by Lincoln after the state seceded. Winthrop was killed during an actual battle between the two armies after Virginia warned the North of war if they didn't pull out. History ignores this fact as well as Sam Ashe, the black confederate private who shot Winthrop during the Battle of Big Bethel.
Defense of their way of life (including slavery) may have been the motivation of the politicians to secede, but to the average Confederate soldier the Union armies were invading THEIR homes, trampling THEIR fields, eating THEIR corn and cattle. I guarantee none of us today would enjoy seeing that, regardless of where we live or what we believe in.
I was born and raised in New England, but I can completely understand where the Confederate soldiers are coming from.
The idea that one million white men stood shoulder to shoulder and charged gallantly to their death over niggers is absurd. Not even the most liberal turd in America would be willing to die for a black man today. It was all just a demonizing of the south after the war. It was about the Union, and Rights. They only freed the niggers to hurt southern economy. It's okay to disagree, just illustrates your naivety.
@cowboyfromky And you just showed your Einstein intellect...bravo. Yes, before the American Revolution. After the Revolutionary War, the North rejected slavery in almost all of the states. It wasn't needed, and many saw it as immoral. Fast forward to the mid-1800s, the North: industry and the South: agriculture. You guys lived off of slave labor. Slaves outnumbered whites in some states. I understand you love your heritage, but don't be a fool.
@RPGrunnerman And you are correct, Lincoln did say that. He would have let you guys keep your slaves if you returned to the Union. You, however, decided to roll the dice and see what happens when you mess with the North. It is ignorant to believe that state rights was the cause for war. Economic disruption was. What disruption? The abolition of slavery, an institution that brought the elite wealth from the painstaking labor of men and women in unpaid servitude. Your "property." Please...
1 out of 10 Southern soldiers did NOT have slaves!!
so what were they fighting for? oh thats right..yankee invaders. to hell w/the yankees!!!!! where ever u are today imagine an army of a million attacking ur area!! what would u do? bend over or fight?!?
the unfortunate thing was that, for the most part, this was not a war over slavery, more about money. Check the proposals before the war and then the taxations after the war "levied only to the south-to cover the cost of the war". It was as if the other states were saying not only did you lose but we are going to take everything now. This was about states rights. Slavery would have went to the side soon anyway. Most southern households couldn't afford or didn't want slaves!
Im sick and damned tired of non-southerns telling me what my forefathers fought and died for when you don't even know the first thing about southern culture other than ill-humored stereotypes, and federalist propaganda. You all can try do argue the point with me all you want, the fact remains Im a southerner, my family fought in the armies of Virgina, Tennessee, Georgia, and Texas. The beliefs and perspectives of Southerners at that time have been passed down from my great grandfather to me
65,000 books have been written on the civil war. 99% debunk the lies and myths created by SOCV.
You're saying 1,000's of scholars are all wrong and in a scheme against the South?
I'm an academic who is horrified when I read things like this: Slavery had nothing to do with the civil war, Lee was an abolitionist, 65,000 free black mean fought to defend slavery culture, slavery was on it's way out".
The 1% of books on the war era written by Confederates today rewrite history - "The Real Lincoln" by DiLoranzo, a farce and a shame, painting Lincoln as a dictator in quest of an empire. Ridiculous in terms of Truth.
DO you ever read outside SOCV material?
No, it's the confederate dynamic that re-writes the story to honor a battle flag that fought for states rights to own people.
Quite shocking to the rest of us out here who have even a cursory knowledge of the truth of that era.
@HopeForPeaceNow You only see what you choose to see, nothing more. Doesn't matter anyway, that war ended 15 decades ago and I seem to notice that the same folks that profess to love the idea of the north fighting for "freedom" are the very same foul mouthed people that would deny us the freedom to honor the integrity of the southern fighting man and the sacrifices that they made.
only a handful of southerners had slaves. SO how is it they fought for slavery when so few had them.
further more the US only had 4% of the slaves shipped from Africa. SO there wernt that many slaves here either
But, if you think about it, there isnt really any way you could persuade anybody to go fight, and fight hard for four years, just so some rich man could keep his slaves.
only a handful of southerners had slaves. SO how is it they fought for slavery when so few had them.
further more the US only had 4% of the slaves shipped from Africa. SO there wernt that many slaves here either
But, if you think about it, there isnt really any way you could persuade anybody to go fight, and fight hard for four years, just so some rich man could keep his slaves.
@HopeForPeaceNow I read about the war sir not so much the politics but from what i can tell Slavery was a highly stated reason for the war. But as I said only a handful had slaves.
But still I agree with the fact The state right they fought for was to own people.
DO I approve slavery
Yes but because of protection if you will. If a group of people can't mach the evolution of another slavery is a option instead of extinction do you agree?
@HopeForPeaceNow This is a situation the winners of war lecturing the losers the south. That the south was wrong. Facts are the bill of rights 10th amendment was discounted.
@HopeForPeaceNow This is a situation the winners of war lecturing the losers the south. That the south was wrong. Facts are the bill of rights 10th amendment was discounted.
the British evaded Africa taking land at a fast pace with no stopping thanks to guns, Calvary, cannons, and war ships.
All the native africans had were some spears, arrows, and raw hide shield.
The british as the are could have wiped the Africans out. Heck any European empire could have back then. The Fact the British believe in transforming over all out dooms day is good. If the Spaniards were doing the take over. all would die
When colonizing, invaders never killed all natives, that's ridiculous. There has to be a workforce to strip mine all the resources. They would have used them as slaves just like they had in every other country.
Would have saved them the horrific trip over.
Did the Spaniards kill every South American? It's ridiculous to say blacks were better off as slaves because someone would have come and killed every African anyway.
strugling to make a profit of of industrialism in comparison to the south and the agriculture , all wars are over money and the victor writes history..
if you folks would do a little more research you would find that slavery was not the main issue , the emancipation proclimation only freed the slaves in the south the northern slaves were still slaves the work just wasnt as demanding because cotton and tobacco dont grow up north.... The south was wealthy and well off due to slavery yes. the north was
@mpzreb17 Lastly, this war could have been avoided entirely, saving hundreds of thousands of lives if the United States handled slavery like other nations and just abolished it peacefully. But no, the South's elite just could not give it up. So, what do they do? They send poor southerners to die in the war against their Yankee brothers so they could salvage their wealth. Most southerners did not own slaves, but they supported the leaders who did. Thus, the recipe for secession.
@Kiriakos1991 I would have agree with you on this. Compensated emancipation, something set aside to train freed slaves, and land grants would have been the answer. Sadly, nothing was done along these lines after Virginia voted in down in the 1830s.
@Kiriakos1991: The Civil War was not entirely based on the issue of slavery. A lot of people forget that slavery was legal in the United States at that time, while it was a major political issue of the day (much as abortion is in our own time) the problem of state rights was a more pressing issue. The CW actually has it's roots in the early days of our nation. We forget that shortly after becoming a nation, the western states threatened to break away from United States.
@wildgeese1640 They felt even then that they did not have a fair say in their own government. South Carolina had threatened to break away years before.
@Kiriakos1991 It was actually about taxation not slavery. If you look up proposed but not ratified amendments, there was a proposal to forever legalize slavery in the states where it was legal. Had it been ratified, it also could have never been appealed.
@Kiriakos1991 Actually you ignorant idiot, The South Carolina (1st to secede and mother of the confederacy) wanted a peaceful secession. They gave Lincoln a very long and appropriate time to leave Fort Sumter. No one wanted a war. Even the Great General himself said that if appropriate actions were taken on both sides there could have been a complete absence in a war. And did you know that Virginia was the first state to try to abolish slavery? Or how about how Lincoln stated that he would
@RPGrunnerman So, let's say that you folks down South seceded peacefully, and kept your slaves until today. You would be okay with that? One side had to lose. The free state/slave state catering was not going anywhere. Slavery was wrong, period. The war was fought over your refusal to acknowledge federal authority. Defend your heritage and southern pride, but don't act like the Union was the instigator. The North appeased you guys for too long.
@Kiriakos1991 you seem to forget that the north called up 75,000 troops to invade the south so the south in defense raised their army the north invaded the south not the other way around also my confederate ancestors upheld the constitution while the north threw it away hence the constitution meaning nothing to this day
@bjizzle123 Dec 24 1860 delegates at South Carolina's secession convention adopted a "Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union." It noted "an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery." Slavery, not states' rights, birthed the Civil War. Don't fool yourself my friend.
@meanstreak1977 You really should do some more reading because each State had its own reason for leaving the Union. Yes that was SC but that still isn't the reason for the war.
@historyUS23 "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world...Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of the commerce of the earth. . . . A blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization." Mississippi Jan 9, 1861.
@historyUS23 I think in fact you should do some more reading other than your high school history textbook in Coach So-&-So's class. Are you seriously trying to tell me the war would have still happened if slavery was abolished in the 1830s like in Britain? If you answer yes then you are still telling yourself lies. And don't give me that "states' rights" crud, no southern state declared that as a reason in their seccession letters.
@bjizzle123 Are you serious? Really? The South LIVED off of slave labor! The Civil War was about the disruption of economy surrounding slavery. Slavery was the issue. What state rights are you or anyone else referring to? The right to keep Americans(yes, blacks were Americans, born in this country)in bondage? The Confederacy was formed because of the desire to keep slavery around to fuel their economy. As someone has already shown you, the South declared why they were leaving: attack on slavery.
@Kiriakos1991 they don't want to accep they were filthy rascist slavers they still have it hard to ackowladge that southerners breed second class citizens. don't try to argue with these niggers remember any southern hick is a nigger black people are diffrent
@TThorne931 But you forget where the slaves were shipped to the States. Some of the New England States were the biggest slave traders. I have ancestors that both fought for the North and South. The war was not all about slaves as many folks tend to beleive. I am proud of my ancestors on both sides. I am so tired of people seeing a Confederate Flag and saying its racist. I never here people protesting and saying the US flag is racist. I see the US flag more than the Confederate flag in rallies.
@rawhide40 Why a war is fought has nothing to do with the individual soldiers who fight in any army. It has to do with the philosophy and war aims of the governments fighting. Slavery was an enormous factor due to economic impact. P.S. Mr. Thorne won't be back.
Amen! I'm born in NY, raised in FL. Many people forget that the British, Dutch, Spanish, Portuguese, French, Russian, and American flags all flew over slave owning nations at one point.
@Kiriakos1991 the war didnt start cause slavery. we fought for our way of life, but the northerners turned slavery into a whole big deal and went straight to war.
@LiftedRamPowerWagon Slavery was a huge reason for secession both economically and politically. Many southerners didn't care for the institution but soldiers follow orders. I would say that if you were a piece of property, without the rights of a husband or father, you'd consider slavery a "whole big deal" too.
@rexlibris99 not really dude Slavery may sound bad to most but look at it like this.
Your at war with a people who are far more advanced then you and have better battle tactics. If you fight your dead and theres no way to know if your choice really made a difference. Slavery is a good pick.
Slavery is in no way a big deal
its just a way to keep people alive who did not evolve faster then the other.
@mpzreb Stop acting like Lincoln was the bad guy, and the abolitionists were all nuts. For how many years did the federal government cater to the whole "free state/slave state" balance?" Lincoln tried to work with the South, but they wanted to leave the Union. End of argument. If the Civil War was not fought to preserve the Union and abolish slavery, then where would we be today? The Confederacy, no matter how honorable they fought for what they believed in, were wrong.
@Kiriakos1991 Lincoln was the bad guy, he forced federalism upon the states and violated several constitutional amendments in the process. The war was fought to ensure states remand sovereign. The slave argument is just propaganda to demonize the South.
@HopeForPeaceNow That isn't strictly true, the south was agricultural, and relied on its slaves. States rights were the main cause of the war, and yes, slavery was an aspect of that. However, if the Confederacy had won, who knows? They knew that slavery was outdated and unpopular abroad, they almost definitely would have abolished it after the war. The fact is, the south needed their slaves for the duration - wars are expensive things, and cotton was the only way for the south to keep going.
"they almost definitely would have abolished it after the war. ' SuicidalTeddyBear14
Have you studied much about Southern culture in 1860?
They based the truth of their culture on the inferiority of blacks and the truth at God had ordained the white man to be protector/instructor. . They had to have some way to rationalize the use of humans as farm equipment. All Southern writing, from history to travel to biology included this foundational truth. It was their "cornerstone".
@HopeForPeaceNow I don't want to get into a huge flame war, so I'll just say this - basically every white person at that time felt exactly that way, it was on both sides. "Southern culture"? Way to tar everyone with the same brush. And you are really not looking into all the reasons for the war. NO war is as clear cut as you are making the Civil War out to be. You are saying, "South fought for slavery and were bad. North fought against slavery and were good." Ever heard of a grey area?
@HopeForPeaceNow You are so misguided it's unbelievable. I DO NOT support slavery. I DO NOT believe that the South basing its economy on slavery was a good thing. But that's how it turned out. What I AM saying is that the Confederacy relied on slavery for economic rather than moral reasons - sure, there w
"Your race are suffering ... the greatest wrong inflicted on any people. But even when you cease to be slaves, you are yet far removed from being placed on an equality with the white race. You are cut off from many of the advantages which the other race enjoy. The aspiration of men is to enjoy equality...when free, but on this broad continent, not a single man of your race is made the equal of a single man of ours." ---- Abraham Lincoln, August 14, 1862, 4 months prior to the Emancipation
Lieblingsfachful 6 days ago
this song is my favorite when i need to relax i turn this up i love it alot
Devilsrogueangel 2 weeks ago in playlist cival war
South or not, this is a beautiful song.
guydelusingnon 2 weeks ago
"I don't fly the Southern flag," Ewolf98
Thank you.
"Btw, why did the blacks choose to stay then?.."
?? Repatriation was never a serious option as a solution to 4 million freed slaves.
HopeForPeaceNow 2 months ago
""Southern Ladies" and "Southern Gentlemen" etc." Ewolf98
Yes, there are many great virtues of Southern culture...
... your HERITAGE is not one of them.
"the Chivalric."
Is it chivalry to fly a battle flag that recently represented segregation?
Would you want the flag flown with pride over your lynched father STILL flown over you with pride?
But, nice try. I'm sure you're a very nice person.
HopeForPeaceNow 2 months ago
While I appreciate the fervor that rosemarie and HopeForPeace have on the issues, it is getting somewhat old. I don't think either of you have to respond to every single post the other one makes.
rexlibris99 2 months ago 4
@rexlibris99
I'm writing a documentary on the dynamic of malinformation. That is - people basing destructive paradigms on wrong information. I'm aware that modern confederates will find it offensive that I put them in that category, but the people caught inside the veil of lies are always unable to realize the truth. All confed pages are full of lies and rationalizations which enable pride their heritage. Die hards argue that slavery was a side issue in 1850. Rose is a perfect example.
HopeForPeaceNow 2 months ago
@rexlibris99 I don't
rosemarie443 2 months ago
"there were people for and against slavery," rosemarie
I asked you weeks ago - how many abolitionists were there in the South?
I realize that those who want to cling to their pride in their heritage want to pretend that that heritage was NOT slavery. That slavery was no big deal.
In reality, it drove the political debate for 50 years before the war.
Saying John Brown securing guns and the fighting in Kansas had little to do with slavery simple makes MY point.
I get you won't see that.
HopeForPeaceNow 2 months ago
@HopeForPeaceNow I see the civil war as a mistake by the south. John Brown was very bad, he raided and killed useing the excuse of be a abolitionist, but really he kept saying it was all for his religion. he was half crazy. like i have told you before you can not read. i didn't say that slavery was not there. i said it was not the main issue. yes some of the people fought over slavery for years, most of them bible thumpers against the plantation owners. but so many other things were important.
rosemarie443 2 months ago
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@rosemarie443
""If it is deemed necessary that I should forfeit my life for the furtherance of the ends of justice, and mingle my blood further with the blood of my children and with the blood of millions in this slave country whose rights are disregarded by wicked, cruel, and unjust enactments-I submit; so let it be done."
John Brown .
"John Brown was very bad, he raided and killed"
None should take pride in the 5 he killed.
Neither should anyone take pride in Southern heritage.
HopeForPeaceNow 2 months ago
"but really he kept saying it was all for his religion." rosemarie443
So did the South base it's slavery culture in the bible. You guy should really read up on the truth of the era.
"most of them bible thumpers against the plantation owners."
The South thumped plenty of Bibles.
"i said it was not the main issue."
Yes, and you, along with all confederate pride in a heritage of segregation and slavery proclaimers are 100% WRONG on that issue.
Once indoctrinated, tho, you have no way out.
HopeForPeaceNow 2 months ago
@HopeForPeaceNow you just can not understand the fact that the south lost, and the north won. get use to it
rosemarie443 2 months ago
"you just can not understand the fact that the south lost, and the north won."rosemarie443
Profoundly stupid thing to say.
I realize confederates today would argue for 10 years that the civil war had little to do with slavery. Only then can you feign pride in that heritage. It is a lie, and a sad one.
America is still reeling from your heritage of slavery and segregation. To profess pride in it still today help us not at all.
HopeForPeaceNow 2 months ago
@HopeForPeaceNow NOW is that incorrect????? the north won, and the south lost. can you explain it in anyother way?
rosemarie443 2 months ago
@rosemarie443
No, common intelligence would help you realize it is silly to say that "you just can not understand the fact" ..."that the south lost, and the north won.'
I obviously understand that. You are attempting to claim that I am so stupid I can't even get who won the civil war...... when you yourself claim that slavery was a sideshow in a culture based on slavery.
You are displaying exactly what I say confederates display - rationalizations to venerate a past of slavery and lynching.
HopeForPeaceNow 2 months ago
@HopeForPeaceNow NO i am not saying that you are stupid . what i am trying to say it that it is over a long time ago and things can not be changed, and as long as the southern people hang onto this civil war, they are living in a dream world.
.
rosemarie443 2 months ago
@rosemarie443 we r all americans if u i & a few others had a club that met evry so often could i leev at my own free wil if u dont like your cell phone company becuse of yor reasons shouldnt u be able 2 change plans do you celebrate the july4th we pay more taxes now than we did under british rule is the 4th of july celebrating freedom in all realality you livin n a dream world no im not trying to pick a fight on hear u jst seem like someone tht it would be fun to have a freindly debate with
FreedomOfDixie 2 months ago
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rosemarie443 2 months ago
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rosemarie443 2 months ago
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rosemarie443 2 months ago
@FreedomOfDixie well sir i can talk to you any day of the week, you might not like to hear what i think but if you would like to talk, bring it on
rosemarie443 2 months ago
uwnt afend me cuz u hav yorright 2yor opinyun as ido 2 myn & ibeleev tht states hav theriht 2 leevthe us if thrpeople vote2choose 2doso jst lik a county has the riht 2 sceed frm the state & atownfrm the conty if a curtan peple dont like theway thr gov is run who is any 1 2 say tht they shld sty ima opertunist caplist& thy y the usgov spnds my tax dolers like a soshalist republic y nt rally my knd of people & frm wht istruely my vizsonof freedm america y shd i be taxd mor&mor the mor i prsper
FreedomOfDixie 2 months ago
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rosemarie443 2 months ago
the south ask to simply just be left alone they wher invaded and defendid there homes they left in peace and the north invaded so what would you do if someone that you wher the better person and just walkd away and they came to your house statern truble with you my point exsacly you would defend your home and want to be left alone
FreedomOfDixie 2 months ago
@FreedomOfDixie NO the south did not want to be left alone, they wanted a fight and the north gave it to them, but the south can not let it go, they still bring it up to this day. the facts are that the south started the civil war, and the north ended it. and the USA lost a lot of men for nothing
rosemarie443 2 months ago
@rosemarie443 They actually attempted to oust Federal forces from forts that had been traditionally part of their territory.
busterbladerpwn 1 month ago
@rosemarie443 By which I mean the states not the Nation they had just formed.
busterbladerpwn 1 month ago
@HopeForPeaceNow OK let me put it this way, you do not want to understand the facts. i did not say that slavery was a side show, i said that there were several other things that were more important. I am not a confederate. i am from the north thank you
rosemarie443 2 months ago
@rosemarie443
OK let me put it this way, you do not want to understand the facts.
"i did not say that slavery was a side show"
Yes, you did .. look back at the comments....
"@HopeForPeaceNow just a sideshow
rosemarie443 1 week ago "
I realize you will argue forever that slavery was not that important in 1860. You are wrong, clearly unread.
Your tenacity, like that of all battle flag supporters, to cling a damaging myth is fascinating and sad.
HopeForPeaceNow 2 months ago
@HopeForPeaceNow I am not unread, but i think that you might be. but you will never let go of the fact that the south was wrong. when the count comes down yes slavery was a side part of the entire event. there was so many other facts that had to be handled first that slavery came in second. but like i said before, the south started the civil war, and the north finished it, now can you change history
rosemarie443 2 months ago
"but you will never let go of the fact that the south was wrong." rosemarie443
No, I think it is quite obvious I know that South was wrong.
In the same way ti is wrong to have pride in that mistake.
But, THIS... "slavery was a side part of the entire event."
is the inner lie you have to tell to cling to Southern pride of heritage.
"slavery came in second." in a culture based in slavery?
So f.... ng sad for the rest of America to have to share our country with ignorance of that level.
HopeForPeaceNow 2 months ago
@rosemarie443 "Religious publications sold more copies than any other form of proslavery writing. Ministers, including the Baptist Richard Furman , led the first wave of antebellum proslavery writing in the wake of the slave-revolt conspiracy in Charleston in 1822. Furman's "Exposition of the Views of the Baptists, Relative to the Coloured Population of the United States" (1823) trumpeted the numerous scriptural passages taken to favor slaveholders that would be repeated ad nauseam after 1831."
HopeForPeaceNow 2 months ago
@HopeForPeaceNow why don't you go a argue with ThankGodIamstillsave she seems to think that she has to shove religion and her opinion down the throat of all who post there
rosemarie443 2 months ago
i would be so honoured to have fought for the south...
NormbrettaMod 2 months ago
@HopeForPeaceNow Watch the profanity or leave. Your choice.
rexlibris99 2 months ago
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"Watch the profanity or leave." rexlibris99
No worries.
Did you shoot that at this guy, too? "you want to be a little bitch about everything."
'the fight in bloody Kansas was not about slavery."
Pathetic and grotesque arguments such as this are worse than profanity.
They keep this country venerating a past of white supremacy. The strongest words we have are appropriate if they make a dent in making that STOP!
HopeForPeaceNow 2 months ago
@ rosemarie443
I know the difference between the state of Kansas and the era known as "Bleeding Kansas", you seem to still be working on that.
So - here ya go... You claimed Bleeding Kansas has nothing to do with slavery and that I'm a idiot of I think it did.
In reality, you're laughably wrong and proud of it - and sticking with that ignorance.
"like i told you i am not illiterate, bukt form this post to me i think that you are the one that is illiterate. "
Hil-fucking-larious.
HopeForPeaceNow 2 months ago
@HopeForPeaceNow well i went to your chanell and you did not say where you are from, mayabe the south, i really do not know, but i am from nebraska which borders kansas so i know about kansas. you do not. NO bleeding kansas main problem was not slavery. you think you know about kansas, and john brown, but you probably do not live in the USA, and are only posting what you have read in books.
rosemarie443 2 months ago
@rosemarie443 I'm a native Kansan. A lot was going on in Kansas and Missouri during time known as "Bleeding Kansas". However, to say that slavery had little or nothing to do with it is incorrect. You're off on John Brown as well.
rexlibris99 2 months ago
@rexlibris99 so am I. i have lived in Kansas and Nebraska for 73 years so i know them pretty well. slavery was not the reason for the fightning in Kansas. and no there is a painting of John Brown in the capital building and underneath that is a complete story of his lilfe. now if hopeforpeacenow wants to know about "Bleeding Kansas" he can look it up.
rosemarie443 2 months ago
"slavery was not the reason for the fightning in Kansas." rosemarie443
You have never explained - then - what Bloody Kansas WAS ABOUT?
For you, every academic account and fact and reality are bunk ... but you offer no other account.
WHAT was BLOODY KANSAS - in you estimation?
"Nebraska for 73 years"
Oh, now I get it.
What a waste of time. Go take your meds, you have dementia.
Sorry - but this ever present lying about the past is no help after the ruination the South has already caused.
HopeForPeaceNow 2 months ago
@rosemarie OMG - YOU are such a perfect confederate moron.
"but you probably do not live in the USA"
I say clearly on my channel that I live in the US.
"i am from nebraska which borders kansas so i know about kansas."
You sound like Palin claiming she know a lot about Russia because she can see it from her town!
"bleeding kansas main problem was not slavery."???
That's like saying McDonalds has nothing to do with hamburgers and that you know that's true because you live next door to one!
HopeForPeaceNow 2 months ago
"NO bleeding kansas main problem was not slavery." rosemarie443
What I find on confederate channels is a long, intricate narrative of lies, excuses and rationalizations.
When I comment on this - I get lies, excuses and rationalizations.
No. You are still, weeks later, wrong about Bleeding Kansas. It was strictly an armed war over expansion of slavery - proslavery vs antislavery forces. Simple.
"but i am from nebraska which borders kansas so i know about kansas. you do not."
Classic stupid.
HopeForPeaceNow 2 months ago
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rosemarie443 2 months ago
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rosemarie443 3 months ago
Let me restate that . So you don't pick that apart. Pennsylvania was the only Union Commonwealth occupied by the CSA . I don't want you coming back saying that Pennsylvania isn't the only Commonwealth state. I know that. Kentucky, Massachusetts, Virginia and Pa. use it.
civilwardoc1 3 months ago
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rosemarie443 3 months ago
@rosemarie443
So, my premise here is that in order to have pride in SOuthern heritage - you must base your augment in lies, rationalizations and excuses.
To debunk this you offer lies, rationalizations and excuses.
Do tell me why you think the fight between porslavery forces and anti slavery forces had nothing to do with slavery.
Dying to hear it.
HopeForPeaceNow 3 months ago
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@HopeForPeaceNow well you can not change history no matter how hard you try. the south started the civil war and the North ended it. there were 3 main problems, and i have told you about them. the color of your skin makes no difference to me. but history has been written so live with it. you just want to talk about slavery, why are you a black person? slavery was NOT the big problem
rosemarie443 3 months ago
"the fight in bloody Kansas was not about slavery. neither was John Brown." rosemarie443
You make these ridiculous statements - but then you never back them up - you just answer with more ridiculous statements.
You amke my point - to support pride in southern heritage of slavery adn segregation, you have to lie and rationalize. That in itself should signal to you that you are wrong.
HopeForPeaceNow 2 months ago
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rosemarie443 2 months ago
Why bicker on Youtube about what caused the Civil War, or any point of political contention? It'll inevitably devolve into an ideological shouting match. If you want to enter into a meaningful conversation on the subject, you should take the time to (gasp) read up on what you're talking about, or at the very least take a course on it. Then you could actually cite factual sources rather than just repeating what your daddy or whoever told you.
The rest of us will continue to enjoy the music.
stether 3 months ago in playlist Folk Anthems
@stether well i have taken a course on this subject at the University, so i think that i can speak my mind with my opinion. now you can read what i told hopefor peacenow.
rosemarie443 3 months ago
Hopeforpeacenow, Please you fool. My great great grand father served in the 12th Virginia Cavalry.He did not own a slave and from his writings didn't care about it oneway or the other as most southerns did. You want to change history to fit you're view of what you think. Sorry, As long as men like myself teach the turth, you will just be out of luck.
weakley726 3 months ago
Deo vindice!
jovan66102 3 months ago
sadly i get stuck in the yank camp and the boy i like in the rebs NO FAIR!!!
veekeeper25 3 months ago
@veekeeper25 well, im stuck in reb came to, and the girl i like is in the reb camp to. we have something in common
daretoprepare 3 months ago
That's Kathy Mattea. I saw her in concert. She's great!
edko426 3 months ago
Love this song.
lowsten 4 months ago
i was born in the south, adopted at bitrh by yankees. but i will always be loyal to the south. born in the south die in the south
MrFuckyourmother123 4 months ago
The south succeeded peaceful. They didn't want the feds to have control over the states. Lincoln, didn't want the union to desolve. So he replenish Fort Sumpter with supplies. The south saw this as a threat so they fire upon Fort Sumpter.
kthurston2003 4 months ago
The north imposed tariffs on imported goods which in return increased tariffs on the good from the south. The south had no industry only agriculture such as indigo, cotton, tobacco, rice etc.
kthurston2003 4 months ago
The war was fought for many reasons. Slavery was only a part of it. States rights was probably one of the main reasons the war was triggered.
kthurston2003 4 months ago
Where i can find more songs like this?
beratta1000 4 months ago
if you hate the south so much why the hell would you play a southern song just to bitch about it seriously yes are forefather's fought in the civil war good job everybody can clearly point that out less then 1/3 actually fought for slavery they fought because there home was in trouble that's what real men are not people who argue on youtube because the school said bad things about the south
aroofadoofapproves 4 months ago
From the tone of your comments, I can see that you are left-leaning. This isn't meant to be insulting to any beliefs you might hold, but when you are looking at history - be impartial.
SuicidalTeddyBear14 4 months ago
to understand the build up to the war read THE CIVIL WAR by ken burns it talks about the political strife and the federal build up of troops to quell the southern insurgents, the real threat was the forced political ideals of the richer nothern industrialists, the war was a necesary factor-A southern boy will survive because we dont give in were not conformists-LBK COMMANDER, Arkansas
lbkcommander 4 months ago in playlist american music
The south was fighting for independence. Numerous scholars have investigated and demonstrated that the overwhelming majority of Confederate soldiers did not personally own any slaves. Their father might in many cases, but still most did not. Slaves were expensive. A young man is his prime might cost $1000, and you could buy a farm of four or five hundred acres for that. Most slave owners had only one or two. There were only a few dozen people wealthy enough in the entire south to have slaves.
axe11154 4 months ago
@axe11154
Are you aware of the politics that lead up to 1860?
It was more specifically expansion of slavery into new territories that was the major bone of contention. The compromise of 1850, the 3/5 compromise, bloody Kansas and the fugitive slave act were political hot buttons and where the battles for power had been fought in the 50 years leading up to the war.
The South was basing it's culture on slavery. The North was moving away from or limiting it.
HopeForPeaceNow 4 months ago
@HopeForPeaceNow
your name tickles me
hope is something that we can never hope for
we are human
We were born from savagery and violence
we are human
war is what defines us and no god or weapon of destruction will truly bring peace.
We are human and there for we are blood, death, and destruction. I hate to admit it but these things are actually what define us and make us evolve at a exstream pace
axe11154 4 months ago
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HopeForPeaceNow 4 months ago
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"we are blood, death, and destruction." axe11154
What a perfect confederate answer to "Are you aware of the politics of the early 1800's"
Oh, we are death, therefore we should have pride in a heritage of slavery.
That is grotesque. And proves my point.
Oh.... you watched the videos I sent. Yes, the South was death, blood and destruction in the era depicted in them. You're right.
You should check out my video "Slavery was a blessing", shall I send that along to you?
HopeForPeaceNow 4 months ago
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HopeForPeaceNow 4 months ago
The south was fighting for independence. Numerous scholars have investigated and demonstrated that the overwhelming majority of Confederate soldiers did not personally own any slaves. Their father might in many cases, but still most did not. Slaves were expensive. A young man is his prime might cost $1000, and you could buy a farm of four or five hundred acres for that. Most slave owners had only one or two. There were only a few dozen people wealthy enough in the entire south to have slaves.
axe11154 4 months ago
i like it.
FlankerVT 4 months ago
and remember, the confederates fired the first shots based upon the fact that the federal government would exercise its legal right, which was again an open act of treason against eh United States and its constitution.
skmongol 4 months ago
@skmongol But no body died as far as I know so just let it go for the greater good .
mollymu1 4 months ago
When the southern states ratified the constitution they signed a contract which they openly breached. by leaving union, repossessing federal property, forts, ports, naval bases, federal waters, and denying the authority of the federal government to access such things therein, they committed an act of open treason. slavery was merely a way to glorify the cause.
skmongol 4 months ago
ya buy the court you win..same todaY........
paragtime 4 months ago
If Britian would of won the Rev War it would of been about Slavery.
mollymu1 4 months ago
The war was first and foremost about the legality of secession. Slavery was just the major byproduct. The North tried to preserve slavery to maintain the Union. The South tried to preserve slavery by leaving the Union. War starts because the South left. Then midway through the war both sides tried to get rid of slavery to achieve their respective causes. The North won. The huge majority of Confederates fought for their non-slaveholding Southern commoner way of life from Northern invaders.
jaranarm 4 months ago
@jaranarm Very well put . Let me ask you this . I knew that the South was going to arm the slaves in 1865 but didn't know anything about the getting rid of slavery midway part . Do you have any ref to that . Thanks
mollymu1 4 months ago
@mollymu1
In 1863, Duncan Kenner, a Confederate diplomat, came up with the plan to emancipate the slaves as a means of gaining independence for the CSA. He was sent by President Jefferson Davis to England and France the following year to convince them to recognize the Confederacy if they would abolish the slave institution, but unfortunately they had already sided with the Union because at that time the war was turning in the North's favor.
jaranarm 4 months ago
@jaranarm Very well put . Haven't heard of the midway thing in the South before . Had heard they were going to arm the slaves to fight in 1865 but not the midway stuff .
mollymu1 4 months ago
@mollymu1
It was in talks for a long time, even going as far as sending delegates to the European powers stating they will abolish slavery in return for independence. The actual arming of the slaves didn't come until much later, however, which led to the South's loss. Since they were winning the war at first they didn't feel compelled to start arming anyone else and started doing so after becoming desperate.
jaranarm 4 months ago
@jaranarm Do you have any ref to this ---- It was in talks for a long time, even going as far as sending delegates to the European powers stating they will abolish slavery in return for independence. Or is it just a faith promoting rumor .
mollymu1 4 months ago
@jaranarm Meaning it lead to thier loss cause they didn't do it sooner ?
mollymu1 4 months ago
@mollymu1
Yes, possibly. While it's true they did not officially let blacks (free or slave) serve in the army until much later, that still didn't stop Confederate officers from allowing them to fight from the start anyway. Major Theodore Winthrop was the first Union officer to die in the war. He was shot and killed by a black man serving in the 1st North Carolina Infantry. This was in 1861 when the war started. Ironically, Winthrop was an abolitionist. Go figure.
jaranarm 4 months ago
@jaranarm Not ironic , awesome . Don't like abos . A bunch of busy body females meddling . Hope your story is true cause that is awesome . Sort of like . ''They couldn't hit an elephant from he....
mollymu1 4 months ago
@mollymu1
It's true. Look it up. Northern history claims Colonel Elmer Ellsworth was the first Union officer to die in the war, but he was killed by an innkeeper during an invasion of Virginia ordered by Lincoln after the state seceded. Winthrop was killed during an actual battle between the two armies. History ignores this fact as well as ignoring Sam Ashe, the black confederate private who shot Winthrop during the Battle of Big Bethel.
jaranarm 4 months ago
@mollymu1
It's true. Look it up. Northern history claims Colonel Elmer Ellsworth was the first Union officer to die in the war, but he was killed by an innkeeper during an invasion of Virginia ordered by Lincoln after the state seceded. Winthrop was killed during an actual battle between the two armies after Virginia warned the North of war if they didn't pull out. History ignores this fact as well as Sam Ashe, the black confederate private who shot Winthrop during the Battle of Big Bethel.
jaranarm 4 months ago
Great video, and I'm glad to see the original.
Brynnium 4 months ago
Defense of their way of life (including slavery) may have been the motivation of the politicians to secede, but to the average Confederate soldier the Union armies were invading THEIR homes, trampling THEIR fields, eating THEIR corn and cattle. I guarantee none of us today would enjoy seeing that, regardless of where we live or what we believe in.
I was born and raised in New England, but I can completely understand where the Confederate soldiers are coming from.
recon20011 4 months ago 5
@recon20011
"I was born and raised in New England, but I can completely understand where the Confederate soldiers are coming from."
I was born and raised in Old England, but I would hazard a guess and say they are coming from the south.
TheRealBoroNut 4 months ago
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The idea that one million white men stood shoulder to shoulder and charged gallantly to their death over niggers is absurd. Not even the most liberal turd in America would be willing to die for a black man today. It was all just a demonizing of the south after the war. It was about the Union, and Rights. They only freed the niggers to hurt southern economy. It's okay to disagree, just illustrates your naivety.
SuperSavarese 4 months ago
Long live the south!
wolf9623 4 months ago
There is nothing Civil about war. This lady was routing for her boy and her boy was fighting for her and the country they loved.
barryhuddx 5 months ago
@cowboyfromky And you just showed your Einstein intellect...bravo. Yes, before the American Revolution. After the Revolutionary War, the North rejected slavery in almost all of the states. It wasn't needed, and many saw it as immoral. Fast forward to the mid-1800s, the North: industry and the South: agriculture. You guys lived off of slave labor. Slaves outnumbered whites in some states. I understand you love your heritage, but don't be a fool.
Kiriakos1991 5 months ago
@RPGrunnerman And you are correct, Lincoln did say that. He would have let you guys keep your slaves if you returned to the Union. You, however, decided to roll the dice and see what happens when you mess with the North. It is ignorant to believe that state rights was the cause for war. Economic disruption was. What disruption? The abolition of slavery, an institution that brought the elite wealth from the painstaking labor of men and women in unpaid servitude. Your "property." Please...
Kiriakos1991 5 months ago
SOUNDS LIKE AN
IRISH SONG?
Mrmikemike46 5 months ago
I cried.. GO CATHOLIC CONSERVATIVES FROM MISSISSIPPI WITH A SOUTHERN ACCENT!!
MrAlexo333 5 months ago
1 out of 10 Southern soldiers did NOT have slaves!!
so what were they fighting for? oh thats right..yankee invaders. to hell w/the yankees!!!!! where ever u are today imagine an army of a million attacking ur area!! what would u do? bend over or fight?!?
bluegrassreb1 5 months ago
@bluegrassreb1 Correction: about 1 out of 20 Southerners owned Slaves.
StonewallJackson26 5 months ago
@StonewallJackson26 ok i stand corrected. but i was mentioning only soldiers. i never knew the number foR citizens. Thanks.
LONG LIVES DIXIE!!
bluegrassreb1 5 months ago
@StonewallJackson26 and
TThorne931 5 months ago
such beautil lyrics.
heavensnorthernlight 5 months ago in playlist Confederate songs I love
the unfortunate thing was that, for the most part, this was not a war over slavery, more about money. Check the proposals before the war and then the taxations after the war "levied only to the south-to cover the cost of the war". It was as if the other states were saying not only did you lose but we are going to take everything now. This was about states rights. Slavery would have went to the side soon anyway. Most southern households couldn't afford or didn't want slaves!
redlizzybeth 5 months ago
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Sic Semper Tyranis
Consrvatev 6 months ago
Im sick and damned tired of non-southerns telling me what my forefathers fought and died for when you don't even know the first thing about southern culture other than ill-humored stereotypes, and federalist propaganda. You all can try do argue the point with me all you want, the fact remains Im a southerner, my family fought in the armies of Virgina, Tennessee, Georgia, and Texas. The beliefs and perspectives of Southerners at that time have been passed down from my great grandfather to me
deadfan666 6 months ago 19
@deadfan666 I'm with you brother and I could have not stated it any more accurately or profoundly. May peace be with you. Sic Semper Tyrannis!
FastPonyGT 6 months ago
"The beliefs and perspectives of Southerners at that time have been passed down from my great grandfather to me " deadfan666
The beliefs and perspectives of Southerners at that time have been passed down from my great grandfather to me as states rights.
They just leave out the rest of the sentence...
STATES RIGHTS TO OWN PEOPLE.
AND NO, the rest of us WON"T let you forget it.
EVER.
Regardless of the 1,000s of lies, rationalizations and excuses y'all use to flag your symbol of slavery.
HopeForPeaceNow 4 months ago
@HopeForPeaceNow The Victor tells the tale. Books and movies tend to show the union sides excuse for the war. And are you a northerner?
CM99501 4 months ago
"The Victor tells the tale" CM99501
No, sir. Peer reviewed scholars tell the tale.
65,000 books have been written on the civil war. 99% debunk the lies and myths created by SOCV.
You're saying 1,000's of scholars are all wrong and in a scheme against the South?
I'm an academic who is horrified when I read things like this: Slavery had nothing to do with the civil war, Lee was an abolitionist, 65,000 free black mean fought to defend slavery culture, slavery was on it's way out".
Grotesque.
HopeForPeaceNow 4 months ago
@CM99501
The 1% of books on the war era written by Confederates today rewrite history - "The Real Lincoln" by DiLoranzo, a farce and a shame, painting Lincoln as a dictator in quest of an empire. Ridiculous in terms of Truth.
DO you ever read outside SOCV material?
No, it's the confederate dynamic that re-writes the story to honor a battle flag that fought for states rights to own people.
Quite shocking to the rest of us out here who have even a cursory knowledge of the truth of that era.
HopeForPeaceNow 4 months ago
@HopeForPeaceNow You only see what you choose to see, nothing more. Doesn't matter anyway, that war ended 15 decades ago and I seem to notice that the same folks that profess to love the idea of the north fighting for "freedom" are the very same foul mouthed people that would deny us the freedom to honor the integrity of the southern fighting man and the sacrifices that they made.
67forceman 4 months ago
@67 I see what years of research have taught me. First hand accounts and peer reviewed academics.
"that war ended 15 decades ago"
Segregation and lynching was 50 years ago.
"freedom to honor the integrity of the southern fighting man"
They were fighting for states rights to own people. I'm sorry, but that's the truth.
Sadly, the confederate mythology has to lie itself around that. It's all over these pages.
If your cause was no noble, there would be no need to lie to defend it today!
HopeForPeaceNow 4 months ago
@HopeForPeaceNow I have no idea how what you said works
think about it
only a handful of southerners had slaves. SO how is it they fought for slavery when so few had them.
further more the US only had 4% of the slaves shipped from Africa. SO there wernt that many slaves here either
But, if you think about it, there isnt really any way you could persuade anybody to go fight, and fight hard for four years, just so some rich man could keep his slaves.
axe11154 4 months ago
@HopeForPeaceNow I have no idea how what you said works
think about it
only a handful of southerners had slaves. SO how is it they fought for slavery when so few had them.
further more the US only had 4% of the slaves shipped from Africa. SO there wernt that many slaves here either
But, if you think about it, there isnt really any way you could persuade anybody to go fight, and fight hard for four years, just so some rich man could keep his slaves.
axe11154 4 months ago
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HopeForPeaceNow 4 months ago
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HopeForPeaceNow 4 months ago
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HopeForPeaceNow 4 months ago
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HopeForPeaceNow 4 months ago
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HopeForPeaceNow 4 months ago
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HopeForPeaceNow 4 months ago
"only a handful of southerners had slaves" axe11154
Southern culture was based in slavery as it's "cornerstone". Have you read much on that era?
Was it not Southern culture for which they fought?
In truth there were 4 million slaves here, nearly all in the South by 1860.
Did you not realize the South instituted the first draft?
If you owned 20 or more slaves, then you got off.
No, the war was over states rights to own people.
Confederate mythology is based in leaving our major truths.
HopeForPeaceNow 4 months ago
@HopeForPeaceNow I read about the war sir not so much the politics but from what i can tell Slavery was a highly stated reason for the war. But as I said only a handful had slaves.
But still I agree with the fact The state right they fought for was to own people.
DO I approve slavery
Yes but because of protection if you will. If a group of people can't mach the evolution of another slavery is a option instead of extinction do you agree?
(Sorry if I got a little off topic)
axe11154 4 months ago
"If a group of people can't mach the evolution of another slavery is a option instead of extinction do you agree?" axe11154
Extinction - how were blacks facing extinction in Africa?
Would you like to see it used to perfect the white race?
HopeForPeaceNow 4 months ago
@HopeForPeaceNow This is a situation the winners of war lecturing the losers the south. That the south was wrong. Facts are the bill of rights 10th amendment was discounted.
AthenasConquest 4 months ago
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@HopeForPeaceNow This is a situation the winners of war lecturing the losers the south. That the south was wrong. Facts are the bill of rights 10th amendment was discounted.
AthenasConquest 4 months ago
@HopeForPeaceNow
hell no
but look
the British evaded Africa taking land at a fast pace with no stopping thanks to guns, Calvary, cannons, and war ships.
All the native africans had were some spears, arrows, and raw hide shield.
The british as the are could have wiped the Africans out. Heck any European empire could have back then. The Fact the British believe in transforming over all out dooms day is good. If the Spaniards were doing the take over. all would die
simple fact
axe11154 4 months ago
"all would die" axe11154
Horseshit.
When colonizing, invaders never killed all natives, that's ridiculous. There has to be a workforce to strip mine all the resources. They would have used them as slaves just like they had in every other country.
Would have saved them the horrific trip over.
Did the Spaniards kill every South American? It's ridiculous to say blacks were better off as slaves because someone would have come and killed every African anyway.
Just to be very clear.
HopeForPeaceNow 4 months ago
@deadfan666
And so the southerns will rize
axe11154 4 months ago
@deadfan666 Its cultural genocide really...
ZackAttack261 4 months ago
strugling to make a profit of of industrialism in comparison to the south and the agriculture , all wars are over money and the victor writes history..
mississippiboy71190 7 months ago
if you folks would do a little more research you would find that slavery was not the main issue , the emancipation proclimation only freed the slaves in the south the northern slaves were still slaves the work just wasnt as demanding because cotton and tobacco dont grow up north.... The south was wealthy and well off due to slavery yes. the north was
mississippiboy71190 7 months ago
@mpzreb17 Lastly, this war could have been avoided entirely, saving hundreds of thousands of lives if the United States handled slavery like other nations and just abolished it peacefully. But no, the South's elite just could not give it up. So, what do they do? They send poor southerners to die in the war against their Yankee brothers so they could salvage their wealth. Most southerners did not own slaves, but they supported the leaders who did. Thus, the recipe for secession.
Kiriakos1991 7 months ago
@Kiriakos1991 I would have agree with you on this. Compensated emancipation, something set aside to train freed slaves, and land grants would have been the answer. Sadly, nothing was done along these lines after Virginia voted in down in the 1830s.
rexlibris99 7 months ago
@Kiriakos1991: The Civil War was not entirely based on the issue of slavery. A lot of people forget that slavery was legal in the United States at that time, while it was a major political issue of the day (much as abortion is in our own time) the problem of state rights was a more pressing issue. The CW actually has it's roots in the early days of our nation. We forget that shortly after becoming a nation, the western states threatened to break away from United States.
wildgeese1640 6 months ago
@wildgeese1640 They felt even then that they did not have a fair say in their own government. South Carolina had threatened to break away years before.
wildgeese1640 6 months ago
@Kiriakos1991 It was actually about taxation not slavery. If you look up proposed but not ratified amendments, there was a proposal to forever legalize slavery in the states where it was legal. Had it been ratified, it also could have never been appealed.
wallbanger1968 6 months ago in playlist Johnny Rebel
@Kiriakos1991 hey dipshit yanks owend slaves dumb ass fucking yank lover
cowboyfromky 5 months ago
@Kiriakos1991 Actually you ignorant idiot, The South Carolina (1st to secede and mother of the confederacy) wanted a peaceful secession. They gave Lincoln a very long and appropriate time to leave Fort Sumter. No one wanted a war. Even the Great General himself said that if appropriate actions were taken on both sides there could have been a complete absence in a war. And did you know that Virginia was the first state to try to abolish slavery? Or how about how Lincoln stated that he would
RPGrunnerman 5 months ago
@RPGrunnerman keep every slave to save the union
RPGrunnerman 5 months ago
@RPGrunnerman So, let's say that you folks down South seceded peacefully, and kept your slaves until today. You would be okay with that? One side had to lose. The free state/slave state catering was not going anywhere. Slavery was wrong, period. The war was fought over your refusal to acknowledge federal authority. Defend your heritage and southern pride, but don't act like the Union was the instigator. The North appeased you guys for too long.
Kiriakos1991 5 months ago
@Kiriakos1991 you seem to forget that the north called up 75,000 troops to invade the south so the south in defense raised their army the north invaded the south not the other way around also my confederate ancestors upheld the constitution while the north threw it away hence the constitution meaning nothing to this day
Southernjuggalo63 5 months ago
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bjizzle123 5 months ago
@bjizzle123 Dec 24 1860 delegates at South Carolina's secession convention adopted a "Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union." It noted "an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery." Slavery, not states' rights, birthed the Civil War. Don't fool yourself my friend.
meanstreak1977 5 months ago
@meanstreak1977 You really should do some more reading because each State had its own reason for leaving the Union. Yes that was SC but that still isn't the reason for the war.
historyUS23 5 months ago
@historyUS23 "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery - the greatest material interest of the world...Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of the commerce of the earth. . . . A blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization." Mississippi Jan 9, 1861.
meanstreak1977 5 months ago
@historyUS23 I think in fact you should do some more reading other than your high school history textbook in Coach So-&-So's class. Are you seriously trying to tell me the war would have still happened if slavery was abolished in the 1830s like in Britain? If you answer yes then you are still telling yourself lies. And don't give me that "states' rights" crud, no southern state declared that as a reason in their seccession letters.
meanstreak1977 5 months ago
@bjizzle123 Are you serious? Really? The South LIVED off of slave labor! The Civil War was about the disruption of economy surrounding slavery. Slavery was the issue. What state rights are you or anyone else referring to? The right to keep Americans(yes, blacks were Americans, born in this country)in bondage? The Confederacy was formed because of the desire to keep slavery around to fuel their economy. As someone has already shown you, the South declared why they were leaving: attack on slavery.
Kiriakos1991 5 months ago
@Kiriakos1991 they don't want to accep they were filthy rascist slavers they still have it hard to ackowladge that southerners breed second class citizens. don't try to argue with these niggers remember any southern hick is a nigger black people are diffrent
TThorne931 5 months ago
@bjizzle123 no it was about slavery you filthy nigger go wash up you embarres the UNION STATES OF AMERICA
TThorne931 5 months ago
@Kiriakos1991 yes the Southern Barbarians would not throw down their swastikas and Klansmen
TThorne931 5 months ago
@TThorne931 But you forget where the slaves were shipped to the States. Some of the New England States were the biggest slave traders. I have ancestors that both fought for the North and South. The war was not all about slaves as many folks tend to beleive. I am proud of my ancestors on both sides. I am so tired of people seeing a Confederate Flag and saying its racist. I never here people protesting and saying the US flag is racist. I see the US flag more than the Confederate flag in rallies.
rawhide40 4 months ago
@rawhide40 Why a war is fought has nothing to do with the individual soldiers who fight in any army. It has to do with the philosophy and war aims of the governments fighting. Slavery was an enormous factor due to economic impact. P.S. Mr. Thorne won't be back.
rexlibris99 4 months ago
@rawhide40
Amen! I'm born in NY, raised in FL. Many people forget that the British, Dutch, Spanish, Portuguese, French, Russian, and American flags all flew over slave owning nations at one point.
mikeymacaque 4 months ago
@Kiriakos1991 the war didnt start cause slavery. we fought for our way of life, but the northerners turned slavery into a whole big deal and went straight to war.
LiftedRamPowerWagon 4 months ago
@LiftedRamPowerWagon Slavery was a huge reason for secession both economically and politically. Many southerners didn't care for the institution but soldiers follow orders. I would say that if you were a piece of property, without the rights of a husband or father, you'd consider slavery a "whole big deal" too.
rexlibris99 4 months ago
@rexlibris99 not really dude Slavery may sound bad to most but look at it like this.
Your at war with a people who are far more advanced then you and have better battle tactics. If you fight your dead and theres no way to know if your choice really made a difference. Slavery is a good pick.
Slavery is in no way a big deal
its just a way to keep people alive who did not evolve faster then the other.
axe11154 4 months ago
@mpzreb Stop acting like Lincoln was the bad guy, and the abolitionists were all nuts. For how many years did the federal government cater to the whole "free state/slave state" balance?" Lincoln tried to work with the South, but they wanted to leave the Union. End of argument. If the Civil War was not fought to preserve the Union and abolish slavery, then where would we be today? The Confederacy, no matter how honorable they fought for what they believed in, were wrong.
Kiriakos1991 7 months ago 3
@Kiriakos1991 Lincoln was the bad guy, he forced federalism upon the states and violated several constitutional amendments in the process. The war was fought to ensure states remand sovereign. The slave argument is just propaganda to demonize the South.
deadfan666 6 months ago 14
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HopeForPeaceNow 4 months ago
'The war was fought to ensure states remand sovereign." deadfan666
The war was fought to ensure states remained sovereign in their culture of slavery.
It was the cornerstone on which Confederate government stood.
HopeForPeaceNow 4 months ago
@HopeForPeaceNow That isn't strictly true, the south was agricultural, and relied on its slaves. States rights were the main cause of the war, and yes, slavery was an aspect of that. However, if the Confederacy had won, who knows? They knew that slavery was outdated and unpopular abroad, they almost definitely would have abolished it after the war. The fact is, the south needed their slaves for the duration - wars are expensive things, and cotton was the only way for the south to keep going.
SuicidalTeddyBear14 4 months ago
"they almost definitely would have abolished it after the war. ' SuicidalTeddyBear14
Have you studied much about Southern culture in 1860?
They based the truth of their culture on the inferiority of blacks and the truth at God had ordained the white man to be protector/instructor. . They had to have some way to rationalize the use of humans as farm equipment. All Southern writing, from history to travel to biology included this foundational truth. It was their "cornerstone".
HopeForPeaceNow 4 months ago
@HopeForPeaceNow I don't want to get into a huge flame war, so I'll just say this - basically every white person at that time felt exactly that way, it was on both sides. "Southern culture"? Way to tar everyone with the same brush. And you are really not looking into all the reasons for the war. NO war is as clear cut as you are making the Civil War out to be. You are saying, "South fought for slavery and were bad. North fought against slavery and were good." Ever heard of a grey area?
SuicidalTeddyBear14 4 months ago
"every white person at that time felt exactly that way," SuicidalTeddyBear14
Way to tar everyone with the same brush.
That's untrue. How many abolitionists were in the SOuth?
The North was clearly moving away from slavery.
The South was clearly basing it's government and culture on it.
Read VP Stevens on the subject. Google "cornerstone speech"
Also, what you put in quotes as if I said it, I never did. If you think basing a culture on slavery is good, that's your quote, not mine.
HopeForPeaceNow 4 months ago
@HopeForPeaceNow You are so misguided it's unbelievable. I DO NOT support slavery. I DO NOT believe that the South basing its economy on slavery was a good thing. But that's how it turned out. What I AM saying is that the Confederacy relied on slavery for economic rather than moral reasons - sure, there w