Nat Hentoff on 'Hate Crime' Laws

[TroyOi]

Would anyone know the status of this hate crime legislation at this time? Did it ever go before the Supreme Court, as Hentoff alludes?

[HimmiJoe]

All murders and assaults are hate crimes, no matter who is involved. People who murder or attack another being do so with hatred, not love or indifference.

[playthefield21]

Here's some food for thought: if you believe hate crime laws should be abolished because the act should be punished under regular laws, and the perpetrator shouldn't be punished for their intentions, then do you believe the same should be true for people charged with terrorism? Why is terrorism dealt with under separate harsher laws? Shouldn't terrorists simply be lumped together with all other murderers?

[calends]

@playthefield21 Yes. Although military laws are different. Also, if someone intends to kill 100 people instead of 1 they should obviously get a harsher sentence.

[alexreffand]

Well, the problem is not the idea of hate crimes, it's the list of protected groups. It shouldn't be "black" it should be "race" It shouldn't be "gay" it should be "sexual orientation" Now hear me out, this is not to simply make it "politically correct" but to make it so that every group is protected. Don't argue against hate crime legislation because it doesn't protect everyone, seek to change it so it DOES. Hate crime legislation is a great idea, it just needs to be tweaked a bit.

[MsRobynlea]

@alexreffand What you propose is in fact idiotic. The very concept of hate crime legislation presupposes two classes of people: Those on some 'protected list' whose harm warrants greater punishment (in other words they are superior to me) and then those not on the list, like me - a straight Christian white man in his late 20s. If you broaden it to 'include everyone' it ceases to be hate crime legislation and becomes a law that metes out harsher punishment for what people have already been doing.

[alexreffand]

@MsRobynlea No, dumbass, you somehow managed to miss my point. That's no small feat, either. Look, it's about INTENT. It's not about WHO is involved, but WHY they are involved. If a white guy beats up a black guy, that doesn't make it a hate crime. It's only a hate crime if it was BECAUSE he was black. I do not understand how you could possibly miss that. Seriously, I clearly said it in my last post, and you STILL managed to misunderstand. Congratulations, you really are that dumb.

[alexreffand]

@alexreffand Now, back to my original point, which is that hate crime laws just need to be tweaked so that if a gay guy beats up a straight guy FOR BEING STRAIGHT (because, you know, that kind of thing happens every day [/sarcasm]), it's considered a hate crime. They just need to be reworked a bit

[calends]

@alexreffand This is such a silly view. What if I decided to smash your face in because I didn't like how you looked at me? I suppose that's not nearly has hateful as hating someone for something as stupid as the color of skin? This whole "hate crimes" legislation is a joke. Somehow killing someone because, oh, say you want to collect insurance money, is different than killing someone because of their sexual orientation? Get real. It's all HATE. 

[calends]

@alexreffand This is what usually happens.The argument turns out to be "we need to make hating someone for X worse than hating someone for Y. Why? Because you want to punish a person not only for the crime, but for being a certain type of evil person. You think by doing this (by going against the rule of law) it's somehow going to prevent these sort of crimes. You basically spit on the graves of people that have been maimed, murdered...for reasons other than what you define as "hate."

[calends]

@alexreffand Hate crimes legislation becomes meaningless when you include everyone because basically you're saying "let's punish irrational, hate filled, crimes worse than..." Worse than what? I guess you could say killing for money isn't a hate crime? Killing out of lust? Who decides what "hate" is worse than others? Is raping and killing a woman done out of hate for her sex? Under this view a rape-murder would get less of a punishment than a murder over race.

[alexreffand]

@calends Say you get into an argument with someone over something like money. It gets out of hand, and turns physical. He threw the first punch, and landed you in the hospital. Common, not a hate crime. And that example with the rape-murder is invalid because the rape would constitute a stiffer punishment than the hate murder. Also, don't even try to nitpick about the phrase "Hate crime" Yeah, all violent crimes are out of hate, but all that means is the wording needs to be changed.

[calends]

@alexreffand Way to miss the point I was making. You glossed over the fact that someone has to define "hate" (my main point), you also bring up a completely irrelevant example where two people are arguing (which assumes there's some culpability on both sides). Let's say, in the same vein as your example, that a guy punches another guy for no reason other than how he looked at him; hate crime? No arguments...just one person senselessly hurting someone else. We ALREADY have precedents for this.

[alexreffand]

@calends (cont') It says nothing about whether or not the concept of the law is valid, but it certainly says a lot about the people that oppose it. People who murder over race are far more likely to repeat the crime than someone who pushes someone down the stairs in the heat of a common argument. The same can be said about sexual offenders, and there should be stiffer penalties for sexually driven crimes as well, regardless of what was actually committed, for the same reason.

[calends]

@alexreffand "In the heat of common argument" What exactly is "common argument"? And comparing murder to pushing someone down a flight of stairs? If you wanted to compare: A "hate crime" would be pushing someone down steps because he's gay, or black (whites don't count usually) but a non-hate crime would be pushing someone down stairs because, oh, you wanted to steal his money? Stupid. Speculations on repeat offenses have no basis in the court of law (except the repeat offender).

[alexreffand]

@calends Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were one of those people who cares more about the perpetrator than the victim of a crime. I can see you truly don't care and just want to argue with someone. I can safely say I'm not in the mood, and that you're an asshole. The arguments you're using are irrelevant to the point I made over two months ago. Seriously, two months. You really have nothing better to do than dig up a two month old debate? Well I do, so you know what, I'm done here.

[calends]

@alexreffand We already have a name for "hate crimes." We call them "senseless violence," and we already have precedents. It shouldn't matter if it's done because of sex, race, class (a poor person killing someone because they're rich should count too), or "for kicks."

[alexreffand]

@calends It should matter, and I've already said why. If you still don't get it, you're a lost cause, and I'm done trying to fix you

[jasonj2008]

so, what they are saying is, the group of white people in america now have less legal standing than the group of other races. great, im sure thats exactly what martin luther king and nelson mandela were fighting for.. for one racial group or groups to have more rights than another....

[TeHGoodReverend]

@jasonj2008 Careful this comment could be used in the prosecution of a hate crime =D.

[JamesBlakeWilliams]

YEAH!

[Tuphut]

Is that a good thing in your mind?

[Tuphut]

Well did it end up passing in your country, because this was in 2009

[wellguesswhatIthink]

no no no, obama, this is not how you do it. are you really going to protect minorities by raising their rights above ours? you know, I've always said that the system shouldn't stop me from liking a person, no matter who he/she is. but you shouldn't stop me from haing whoever I want either

[NoCameraForMe]

well said

[d0md0mt0mt0m]

I love the CATO institute, very free thinking.

[Rcoxx4u]

This is all about jews this "hate crimes bill" will benefit only them. In Europe question the "Holocaust" and you go to jail; why? "Hate laws" yet look at what the do and get away with. This is why the jew-media is quiet on this. The ACLU=jews, ADL=jews and Obama serves only jews interests.

[calends]

@Rcoxx4u I would say it's less because of "Hate laws" and more about "you're so stupid for questioning the Holocaust that you deserve jail" laws.

[hallcyon]

"Thought crime was not a thing that could be concealed forever. You might dodge successfully for awhile...but sooner or later they were bound to get you."

- George Orwell, 1984

[kirbykool123456789]

Bascially hate crimes laws separates people into groups.

[poolerboy0077]

The law already does this without hate crime laws. It's called suspect classification.

[bikers4freedom]

Nat Hentofff.....

An honest Liberal.

He actually believes in the 1st Amendment for all Americans not just for politically correct thinking Leftists, Blacks. homosexuals, Latinos, Muslims, women that hate men, homosexuals that hate straight White men, but seem to think the worlds 3 billion Muslims are all PC gay friendly Leftists.

:-)

Great speech Nat Hentoff - an honest liberal is indeed a very, very rare breed these days.

[funbycynthia]

cont. That's Nazi thinking. One day you might be at the other end of the stick and might regret your cavalier choice. Let the courts and jurys decide in the end on a case by case basis who deserves it. Bullys and hatemongers need special treatment. Let the punishment fit the crime.

[funbycynthia]

This is not just about Jews. It is about anyone considered 'different.' Just because you don't think that you're different, you think its okay for ppl to kill different ppl because of hate and should just get average murder punishment. Why are you so against it? Is it you secretly want the different to be killed?

[thepatriotdames1776]

Thank you for putting this on. I hope people understand that all they have to do is call their Senators NOW and the members of the House Judiciary Committee. The Hate Crime has been defeated every time before because people CALLED.

[RedStarRevolver26]

"Hold on let go get my gun"..........."O.k. so whats all this talk about taking away my Freedom of Speech?"

[RedStarRevolver26]

"Hold on let *me* go get my gun"

[222jewise]

Exactly as he say in the video who gets accused and for what is subjective and this is the point, because the next step is to twist what anyone can be accused of, like "a possible terrorist". Do you want to know what the jews want for you if they accuse YOU of being a possible terrorist?

"BREAKING NEWS Rahm Emmanuel Disarms America with MOSSAD computer"

watch?v=gx6fhE-DpeQ&feature=ch­annel_page

The jews call him "Rahmbo" search name + dead fish + knife. He is Cheif of Staff White House.

[222jewise]

Who wrote the Hate Law in the first place?

In June 1993, the United States Supreme Court upheld a Wisconsin hate crime statute that was based on model legislation originally drafted by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) in 1981... ADL has long been in the forefront of national and state efforts to deter and counteract hate-motivated criminal activity. Search: ADL Hate Crime Intro

First and last: The ONLY ones that wants the Hate Laws are jews.

[222jewise]

What the Hate Laws really are all about is that jews shall be the Untouchable. Anyone that today criticise jews are immediately label with the bogus accusation "antisemite". That normaly kills that person instantly. But that's not enough for the jews. They want to stop ALL criticism of the jews. What the Hate Laws is all about is that jews shall be above the laws, but to disguise the real motive the jews have involved all kind of minorities in the law. Just to confuse non-jews.

[bikers4freedom]

Some truth to this.

ADL has been pushing Hate Crime Laws/Hate Speech/Thought crime laws for over 20 years.

The ADL continues to do so now - but so many other PC groups have jumped on this Hate Crime law bandwaggon to get their group included as a PC victim group and to get in on the loot.

Southern Poverty Law Center SPLC/$PLC they rake in $millions.

Note that Muslims are now getting PC victim status and they will use it to bash Jews who support Israel - the RACIST HATE STATE.

[222jewise]

How do you get power as a small minority? You write the Laws and then you turn the whole judicial against it's own people, and this is what the jews do. They do it in Australia, in EU and in America. The very first Law in Sovjet was death penalty for "anisemitism". Who - except jews cpuld come up with a Law like that? That is a Hate Law and what the jews want is a global ban on any critic of the jews.

What are you if you don't dare criticise jews? You are the jews slaves.

[funbycynthia]

"I don't like that man, I need to get to know him better." ~ Abraham Lincoln

The Dems' and the Repubs need to get to know each other better... and come together for our country and the world.

We are all human beings, the same species, let's get a grip. :)) We must unite and make our country strong again, as a whole ppl. What makes our country strong, makes the world strong through love. Love can move mountains, cont

[funbycynthia]

cont. and needs to be addressed w/ a secondary sentence only if it is proven and accepted by a jury and judge in court.

Love is all that matters. Fear is what brings on not fun things. Let's work from that place.

"Come ppl now, smile on each other, everybody get together, try to love one another right now...."

"Reach out and touch, somebody's hand, make this world a better place, if ya can..."

[funbycynthia]

cont. we were given free will. we must agree to disagree, but nothing beyond that. if it is, it is a hate crime and it is different than an ordinary murder or assault . it is a crime against humanity. killing or murdering someone over drugs, alcohol abuse, jealousy, money etc.. is one crime. now instead change it to - because they were a _____ (nigger, jew, fag, chinc, spic, wop, kkk member, or whatever- that is a whole nother animal

[funbycynthia]

none of us are different, we are the same species. like horses, some are pintos, some dapple grays, some skittish, some friendly, etc.. we're all the same, like the species of horse, but we are individuals. social groups who face off and divide and don't get along hinder the strength of our ppl coming together, for the greater good. Live and let live in a free country. hate crime legis. facilitates tolerence and peace amongst our ppls.

[funbycynthia]

cont-A white supremist could have been killed by a black guy. the prosecuter could go that way too. hate crimes are crimes of separating any group of ppl through hate. this bill can help reduce friction between any group of ppl. jews were killed in conc. tramps because of hatred between groups. this bill helps the country learn tolerence of anyone that is different than anyone else. cont...

[funbycynthia]

cont.-certain types of ppl to beat up, or reacts and does this, not just being mad, but because the person is a minority, (hate crimes are not just about gays) a prosecuter can use the statute in many different instances- blacks killing Korean, white supremist killing a Jew, the killing or accosting a person because he/she belongs to a group. A creative prosecuter can use the hate crime statute in any case he/she sees fit.

[funbycynthia]

hate crimes must be approved by a judge and jury. they are crimes that are against a group of ppl, not just the victim. if the defendant is proven to be guilty of just doing something- like beating someone up behind a bar, that's one crime, just being drunk, mad or whatever. if he stalks cont....

[itsareligionofpeace]

Nat Hentoff is one of only a handful of principled Liberals who stands up for the legitimate rights of Americans to exercise 1st Amendment free speech.

Don't let anyone say you can't speak your mind on any subject.

Also crime is crime.

If someone is murdered by Black gang members in Chicago they are just as dead as if they are murdered by a White racist prison gang in Idaho.

Chicago suffered over 500 murders last year.

0 by racist White prison gangs from Idaho

[vinneynrush]

These hate crimes "laws" are not intended to protect truth. Hate crimes are intended to protect the rejection of God and truth. Hate crimes force you to accept 30 different gender orientations of which you cannot condemn nor insist that your children not be taught these things in the classroom or on television. Hate crime legislation forbids you to resist regulatory rules protecting the sin and its acceptance as normal in the work place, schools, and everyday life activities.

[vinneynrush]

The name of the bill is really Queer Protection Law. Are you surprised or shocked to see the use of the word Queer and judge it as being insensitive? Then, you have lost the power of discernment. You are not shocked by the passage of this law in the House, but your thoughts are that this statement is slighting or hurtful. A hit for Miss California (sic) in Britain! "Political correctness is cultural Marxism", Paul M. Weyrich.

[carolyncriss]

A soldier was beaten near an inch of his life by a gang of 15 men who hate the military. Is he covered as a "victim". (true story) . (hypotheticals) If someone who lost his job beats up a rich guy or a business owner, is that a hate crime? If someone follows me off the freeway and shoots me in a moment of road rage, is that a hate crime? It seems to me, if you beat someone up or attempt to kill them, hate is present.

[Kenmoron]

What about premeditated murder that carries more time than other types of murder. Is premeditation not a thought crime in his definition?

It is not just that if you beat a gay man. It is you beat a gay man because he is gay, Or you beat a christian because he is christian.

PLEASE CORRECT ME IF THIS IS FALSE:

"you can beat a gay man and not commit a hate crime. (but still be committing battery "

[zombiechaddy]

Kenmoron: It does seem as though hate crimes are being charged similarly to premeditated crimes. The ironic thing is that they should probably be treated more like the "in the heat of the moment" crimes, since killing someone because they're gay/black/whatever is just as irrational as letting your emotions overwhelm you and force you to violence.

[Kenmoron]

Well i think that is up to a jury to decide. Just like premeditation is up to the jury.

My question still goes unanswered.

The answer frames this whole debate.

at 1:15 the speaker claims that if you ever beat a protected group that you will be charged with a hate crime.

Anyone want to refute?

[zombiechaddy]

Kenmoron: Let me take another stab here.

Under hate crime legislation, if it can be proven that your motivation to harm somebody was motivated by racial/sexist hate, then you can be charged with a hate crime. Yes, you can, as you say, beat a gay man and not be charged with a hate crime. But if you call him a fag during the beating, you're in deep shit.

[Kenmoron]

Ok, well that seems to refute the claim of the speaker in the video.

I guess the next question is it fair to ask a court or jury to judge the intent of the accused?

From what i am seeing, The use to the term "hate crime" seems to be legislatively adding nuance to the idea of premeditation.

This begs the question if beating a christian because he is a Christian is more damaging or even a different crime that just wantonly beating someone who happens to be a christian.

I think intent matters

[obmax1212]

Premeditation is not a requirement for a murder charge. Why does it matter that a person decided to commit a crime because of a prejudice? What difference does it make to the victim? Who get's to decide who is protected and who isn't? Are gays in need of special protection? Doesn't this imply that certain groups of people are helpless? That isn't a very empowering position.

[Kenmoron]

I am not saying that "Premeditation is not a requirement for a murder charge." I am saying they are treated as two different kinds. Premeditated carries a larger sentence.

Q: Who get's to decide who is protected and who isn't? A: The answer is the jury

Also it does not imply that certain groups are helpless and the hate crime laws are not meant to empower.

The claim is that hate crime, like lynching are more socially damaging than just a simple murder.

[anoniab]

Kenmoron-all murders are hate crimes

[anoniab]

Kenmoron- the hate crimes legislation is not needed because murders can be prosecuted under "special circumstances" laws that already apply.

[CountArtha]

Don't they have this in Spain? The official policy there is that men who beat their wives get twice as much jail time as women who beat their husbands.

[PoliticalPhilosopher]

Hate crimes are for haters. If you like the Cato Institute and support freedom, you should sub to my channel.

[JohnJ2427]

Goodbye, freedom of belief.

[MS1719ms]

Each State allready have Hate crimes laws on the books, just inforce those. You have to ask yourself, why does the Federal Government want to take away any more Right's from the States.

[hoomelemele]

the point is, hate crimes do not apply to a violent act against a white person

[Surhotchaperchlorome]

Hate Crime laws are bogus.