This guy's a quack. I see absolutely no information on Baha'ism (in this video) and misinformation on Jesus, i.e., he was a follower of John the Baptist.
what is mysterious about bahaism? its just another organised religion, that tries to differentiate itself from others by seeming to make itself compatible with other monotheistic religions even if those religions contradict each other or have no real common view, its a really silly and asinine concept, thats been done to death over the last 2000 years.
yet!! ... you are the most prejudice person ive heard ..you cant call ur self a christian .. because you dont even do half the things jesus wanted you to .. sorry .. but your a failuse ... bekus ur so prejudice .. jesus would be ashamed in you .. i know its harsh! but open ur eyes .. go read some books and stop posting ur dumb comments without investigating about the faith .. you silly 2 year old prejudice close minded sad person
I think that there will come a time we will recognise the essence of al great teachings.
bahai is a nice start. i dont believe the guy was the christ. in what i understand he can not be. if there is a real 2nd coming it will be more noticed.
but the central idea of bahai i agree to most strongly. that is, to find the essential of the message apart from dogma and formed tradition
It is no surprise then that Baha'i faith proclaims Baha'u'llah to be the second coming of Christ. Jesus Himself warned us in the gospel of Matthew concerning the end times: "Then if any one says to you, 'Lo, here is the Christ!' or 'There he is!' do not believe it. For false Christ's and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect" (Matthew 24:23-24).
I like how people like you just assume that Baha'u'allah is a false prophet without investigating the texts of the Bahai faith, you hide behind the New Testament and don't even bother to educate yourselves about other faiths. WE ARE ALL CHILDREN OF GOD MY FRIEND
I'll accept Baha'ulla if you can convince me with your answer: How can all the messengers be from the same God when... Buddha didn't believe in the existence of God. Jesus claimed to be the begotten Son of God when Muhammad declared God could not have a son. Hindus believe that there is no absolute deity while Islam teaches there is only one very specific deity. Islam teaches that Muhammad was the final prophet. Baha'i teaches that he was not and Baha'ulla is the new manifestation. Same Ggod???
HolyN0va, there are plenty of Christians and Bahai's alike who've looked into your faith and concluded it false solely based on the written texts themselves. Please realize that the claims some Christians make against Bahais are not without logic or reason.
There is a point why we as Christians don't embrace Baha'u'allah as a prophet of God (Matthew 24:23 - 27)
Also, according to Jesus not everyone is a child of God (John 8:44) see also (1 John 3:10) So we are NOT all children of God
@HolyN0va I've investigated this religion for a long time.members of my family follow it.I used to say the prayers when I was a kid...except I felt like i needed to say AMEN after ya ba ha la pa.&for good reason.Only Jesus/God the father,Yahweh/Holy Spirit can guide me,protect me
&illumin the lamp of my heart,etc.He is the only remover of difficulties.The Godhead is 3 in 1.Father.Holy Spirit.Son.Good works can't save you.This religion contradicts it's self.Bahualla is NOT the Holy Spirit.
It is one thing to claim deity and quite another to have the credentials to support that claim. Christ did both. He offered three unique and miraculous facts as evidence of his claim: the fulfillment of prophecy, a uniquely miraculous life, and the resurrection from the dead. All of these are historically provable and unique to Jesus of Nazareth. We argue, therefore, that Jesus alone claims to be and proves to be God.
I have a similar opinion, although it isn't quite as optimistic. I predict that in the Middle East and other currently Muslim countries Baha'i will take over, but many of the same advantages Baha'i provides can also be provided by Wicca, which is home-grown in England and thus should be more popular in the West. For this reason I predict they will each take a chunk of the world. Immediately afterwards politicians will start distorting their doctrines to justify wars, and then back to ground 0
I will try to clear up the confusion over my talk of the "marketability" of a religion with a quote from Sam Harris (End of Faith, p.31): "Because most religions offer no valid mechanism by which their core beliefs can be tested and revised, each new generation of believers is condemned to inherit the superstitions and tribal hatreds of its predecessors". My contention is Bahaiism may have succeeded to a degree "most" religions have not.
"Blessed are such as hold fast to the cord of kindliness and tender mercy and are free from animosity and hatred." -Baha'u'llah
"Baha'u'llah continually urges man to free himself from the superstitions and traditions of the past and become an investigator of reality, for it will then be seen that God has revealed his light many times in order to illumine mankind in the path of evolution, in various countries and through many different prophets, masters and sages." -Abdul Baha
Hey your cute and I appriciate you commenting on the Bahai Faith. Although, I wish I could talk to you in real life. Many things you have to say are quite good and smart in my humble opinion. Some things maybe you haven't read yet about the Bahai Faith in depth. Like The Bab did not have a small following his following was estimated by the British Amasador of the time to be about 500,000 people.
(continuation from above) About 20,000 of His followers alone were killed by the clerical government because they refused to deny him. I like the FACT that you think ...thinking is the most valuable tool in my estimation that person has. (continue next comment) I just have a question. Who is this brilliant marketer of the Bahai faith?
(continuation from above) We have no have no clergy to "market" or spin our religion...genrally every Bahai reads the writting of Baha'u'llah (pronounced Ba-ha-oo-lah) and does as his conciousness dictates to the best of his abilities to reflect that truth. In your opinion, who creating this big marketing spin you suggest? You didn't mention how you think the marketing is done...you just browsed the history and very basic beliefs
No, I wasn't talking about an actual marketting campaign. I meant the tenets - or the way they are usually propounded - is quite effective marketting for this religion in itself. I mean, e.g, it does not say "all other religions are wrong and you are a dummy to believe them". Indeed, this is quite far from what it says.
(continuation of above comment)You seem to suggest that we need to be better at marketing becuase you seem to think that the Bahai Faith has not yet reached anywhere near it's capacity of followers. I don't recall you saying anything bad or really negative about the Bahai Faith...it seems that you have a favorable impression of it despite your disagreement that God exists. That is good that you took time to do this.
I think the Bahai religion is fairly well "marketed" in a certain sense and I wouldn't at all be surprised if in half a thousand years or so it had become far larger and far more influential than it presently is. :)
And yeh, I don't think I've said anything particularly bad about the religon (contrast that with Isam and Xianity where I have!)
Okay, I am a Baha'i, and first off, I am not offended at all. My good friend was atheist and is now Baha'i . With the belief of God aside and all the religious details.... Let's just take the beliefs of Baha'i's.....UNITY.....Equality of women and men......Justice.....Steadfastness....Are things your are opposed to? I think these are noble virtues that people and the whole world could greatly benefit from.
I'm not opposed to those values, but they are not exclusive to the Bahai faith, ya know. What about unproovable things such as the metaphysical claims of the religion?
Also, I s'pose Bahaiism affords homosexuality equality, too, right...
Absolutely correct: they aren't exclusive to the Baha'i Faith simply because each One of the Great Educators taught them to humanity. They are eternal truths that we all must constantly strive to internalize. But, regarding your assertion about homosexuality vis-a-vis the Baha'i Faith (not Bahaiisim), there are many fundamental things you don't understand. (continued)
It is you who prefers to limit your identity by framing human identity from a context of sexual orientation. Thus, by caging oneself within these quite limited parameters, one is denying oneself a far, far, greater knowledge of human reality. "Baha'i...Marketing", your other blog, shows this.
I have probably said it more than a dozen times now: the "Bahai Faith" vs. "Bahaiism" debate is OVER on my videos. I don't want anyone to mention it any more as I have already discussed the point to death. :)
Then, will you kindly and correctly either remove this blog from YouTube or, whenever it attracts someone new, inform them that the debate is over? This is justice. Otherwise, everyone will question your motives.
This blog does not hinge on the terminology, does it, so why would I remove it?
The debate about "Bahai Faith" vs. "Bahaiism" was never begun by me: I have ended it because I do not wish it discussed on this vid as it is irrelevant to my point and I have dealt with it several times.
llamalinden, you have to understand that not all people are raised with these words, and that the pronunciations are often quite different phonetically from the spellings.
To BryanAJParry...I sympathize, as someone who couldn't pronounce a lick of it a few years ago, but just remember that we get this all the time. It is similarly tiresome. Patience on both sides of the language barrier is the best course.
Cheers for the support, Peter. But to be honest, I personally AM quite patient in these matters. I'm not so petty as to try to point out flaws in the way others speak, as llamalinden does, as if that somehow has a bearing on the points I'm making. Sheer petty-mindedness is all that preoccupation is. :)
Thanks for your positive remarks, Bryan. I look forward to hearing what role you think the Baha'u'lla's teachings themselves will have in this phenomenal growth. We Baha'is are definitely out there offering his teachings and will share with anyone with a willing heart and mind. Have you seen the Baha'i videos by Baha'is on youtube? Again, good job. You have a good voice for documentaries as well.
Very cool videos. It's good to see someone who can think for their self. It's a good and rare quality. Independent investigation of truth - no matter what the outcome. refreshing.
Bryan, instead of looking at the Baha'I laws "downstream" to question why we have this and that laws, you should look upstream to our theological concepts and understand what we believe about human action, by what standard they should be in, and why.
I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. I try to do both, but there are quite a few things I'm interested in besides the Bahai Faith, ya know ;P And there's only finite time to do everything in.
Its through that, that the laws are explained. I personally used to have very different views on homosexuality, but when I came to my faith, I began to understand the reasoning, and how it links with every aspect of the faith.
Don't feel am I trying to trick you; I'm not. But I want you to make sure I follow you; you never used to think homosexuality was bad UNTIL you became a Bahai? Is that correct, as that is how I read your above post. :)
Actually I went from hating them, to blindly following what anyone deems is "progressive" to where I am today. Since I have homosexual family members, it was this issue which kept me away from my faith for some time.
When I grew older and I understood that the faith does NOT have the an issue against homosexuals. First of all homosexuality means homosexual sex, only the MODERN meaning made it into an "orientation" combining it with homosociality and homo-romanticism. its the sex part which is an exploitation of a material impulse, just like extra or pre marital heterosexual sex.
In the Baha'i Faith our goal is to rid ourselves of materialist mindset, so that we can transcend the draw of these impulses and bring our consciousness closer to God. Even in heterosexual sex within marriage, we need to see the practicality of it FOR the material world, and how THIS material action is needed, just like eating is needed. this is virtually impossible in homosexual sex as it serves no purpose to the material world.
i think that is accomplished substantially without material interaction, and the physical interraction is just our reproductive impulses taking over when the feeling is right, so to keep the species going. we confuse that impulse with love, which is spiritual.
I think thats an excellent question. In my own experience it comes with existentialism and atonement. To atone oneself to see the reality that the material world as marginal, and our consciousness is on a separate plane, thereby makes the impulse marginal and easy to shrug off if not never encounter.
I think tho we're getting off the track. Why is it wrong for gays to express their love and intimacy in the sexual way, but it's alright for straights? Saying "God says" is not an argument, I'm afraid to say.
Now, I never said that. The question is on what rational basis do we say it is wrong for gays to experience that intimacy but it is alright for straights? Why must gays subvert their natural, healthy desires by only talking, whilst us straights can bonk till our brains fly out?
I agree. What I'm saying is, a lot of people like the one who responded to your other video about Baha'i's, look at our faith as compared to the standards of what secular society deems "progressive," based on the values of a secular society. When really..peopel who come to the Baha'i Faith aren't people who say "oh i like this law, that law, and that law" its people who agree with the root theology, the nature of the soul and our purpose here.
Theologically, we believe that this world is a "material matrix" which is of marginal importance in the scope of the spiritual world, which we primarily exist in. It is our goal in the faith to become conscious of our spiritual primacy, and thereby transcend the draw material impulses, as opposed to animals, which are primarily material beings.
Y'see, I agree and I disagree... I think the best thing we can do is nurture our "souls", but I use that word metaphorically to mean our character. I think, by definition, we can only use "material" means to achieve a development of our "soul", as material is all we've got. Ya know, philosophies that reject god and a hereafter do not needfully involve unadulturated hedonism ;D
We see the material and the spiritual as two ends of a spectrum. We must consciously existential-ize from seeing material primacy, and knowing it is marginal, as is all the material sensations as simply what the matrix is telling our brains
This is an interesting viewpoint, if not one I hold to. I have one question tho: how can you be sure there is an afterlife? How can you be sure of the rest of your beliefs, too? The only answer I can think of is "Baha'u'llah said so"... :)
Hmm I guess I partly answered this in the previous post, but expanding on it, that which I described i n the previous post its very much in line with quantum theory, which asserts that human consciousness affects matter, and that even after the bodies death the consciousness exists transcendent of time and matter.
That doesn't confirm or deny that Baha'u'llah was speaking true, tho. BTW, I don't think quantum theory does say that "consciousness exists transcendent of time and matter". If you'ld furnish me with a source for that, I would be thankful. :)
Thus, our actions on this world, as of marginal relevance as they are, must be committed according to the will of God. Doing so, will help us gain consciousness and bring us closer to God. It's the same reason why we have an annual fasting period, so we can consciously rise above the physical impulses that tell us we are "hungry" and rather atone ourselves higher.
I think that fasting in many ways is potentially useful. But, being an atheist, I don't believe in the first bit of your post. How can we know the will of God? And I also dispute that our actions are of marginal important; they are of supreme importance, for this is the only world we'll get. That drives one all the more to develop one's character and try to achieve happiness.
We know the will of God (as Baha'i's) through His Messengers, and the Revelation they give. Through quantum physics we know there is a nexus to all space/time/matter/etc. likewise we know that human consciousness alters matter. thus there is a source to such consciousness, an "all-conscious" and then its just a question of what would such an essence do with that consciousness
The "sex" impulse is another material impulse that must be used in accordance to divine will, and we must consciously transcend beyond its calls otherwise as best as possible. In the Baha'i Faith sex must be practiced within marriage. At the same time the Baha'i writings explain that the procreation of children is the sacred and primary purpose of marriage.
Define "marriage". I certainly think sex within a stable, loving relationship is the best kind of sex, whether you are officially wed or not (and whether it is a straight or a gay relationship).
The meaning of life is this: reproduce. We are vessiles for spreading DNA. That's it. But that's a rather unfulfilling meaning. Our meaning should be to seek out happiness, imo. :)
the Baha'i Faith agrees the meaning of life is to achieve happiness, but the writings explain its not following our material desires which will get us true happiness, but rather existentialism thereof and submission to God's commandments.
Heh, that is where you and me part company, I think... and what a parting! I personally reject that we can know anything beyond what we can understand... obvious, but I mean to say that God, the next world, etc, are not things we can truly know. I would suggest pretty much by definition, in fact. Thus we should only worry about what we know.... which is this life, and material pleasures.
Well if we agree that God is the all-conscious, then the only thing really separating us is the idea that certain individuals have a consciousness far greater than ours, to the likeness of that source
The thing is, is a human really ever capable of seeing God or grasping him or his message, when God is so much mightier than anything we can possibly concieve of?
The Baha'i Writings explain the latter. That it is so beyond us that we cannot grasp it. However, that we as humans can existential-ize; increase our consciousness to greater grasp it (marginal as that may be), and thus we grow "closer" to God. This comes through spirituality, but shutting the door on spirituality leads to the opposite effect; distance
You see what I'm saying, tho? Given it is impossible by definition to grasp God, how come so many people are so sure they know his will? Seems to be to be a paradox.
Speaking of that, its that distance vs. nearness to God which defines our meaning of "afterlife," a latter system of distance rather than a strict "heaven" or "hell."
That's more believable, imo, than the heaven-hell paradigm. Still not particularly appealing to me, tho, and there is no real evidence for it. I don't think Quantum theory does show there is an afterlife and so on.
I disagree in a certain sense. That is, I think "marriage" in the sense of two people coming together **IS** highly beneficial in loads of ways. But I do not think one particular form of marriage, as practiced within any one religion, is "best". Marriage is not a religious concept in and of itself, and I dout it was "created" by religion.
The thing that bothers me is I don't see how it is possible to discern God's will, so how comes so many people are sure God wants us to have sex this way or that? It seems to me nonsense.
"exploitation"? I'ld rather follow the wise teachings of the Karma Sutra... in any case, "exploit" is a word I'ld use of sex, but only in the non-derogatory senses of the word. Sex can be exploited to great effect for happiness, I would argue. :)
I recommend reading "The Seven Valleys" Revealed by Baha'u'llah. its very short, and very much explains the Baha'i belief on the soul and its progress.
Obviously sex outside of that is just an exploitation of a material impulse, causing us to forget about our spiritual primacy and rely upon material pleasures as our primary source of happiness. So thus, the laws reflect this, and any sexual actions outside of the institution where procreation of children is possible is prohibited. This includes homosexuality.
It's been known for a long time that sex can actually be very good for you on an emotional basis, and helpful for developing character. A disturbing trend in religions is the idea that sex for non-reproduction is bad; in what sense is fulfilling our natural desires bad? Anything to excess is not helpful, but there's a world between wild sexual orgies and only having sex to make kids. Like, ya know, making love with your (wo)man whom you love for fun.
I'ld also like to say that I am a materialist, basically, and I think development of our "souls" AKA character is intimately connected with material pleasures, as I believe this is all there is. I cannot understand the oft-repeated idea that starving yourself of pleasures in this world will make things so much better for you in the next, when we don't even know there is a next world or what it's like.
I believe the "soul" is our consciousness that exists beyond our material constructs. In quantum physics this holds true. Have you studied quantum Bryan?
It's very interesting. I know a little about it; I've never studied it. The closest I'll get is popular science books, as I'm not bright enuff to get it "raw". But for what it's worth, and just so everyone else knows, not everyone is as convinced as some theologists are that quantum theory prooves the soul, and god, and so on. ;D
I really recommend reading up on it. It doesnt "prove dogma" rather it removes all of those fanciful tales fro the equation and proves the true nature of theology is far more practical and down to earth than humans historically interpreted. thats my opinion.
lol. "If you think you understand quantum theory, you don't understand quantum theory".
Quantum theory is deeply mysterious. The difference is that there is evidence for its truth; there isn't evidence for the "truths" espoused by religions.
I disagree. In quantum physics we can see that there is a "God" but thats stripped of say christian dogmatic teachings. Rather God is the nexus of all matter,time, space, etc. likewise we know through quantum that human consciousness alters these elements. Thus, this nexus is the source of all consciousness. then its just a question what that conscious "being" as it were, would do
i tried to post but it didnt come. im am not good in english but interested in bahai. can you explain this post for me, because i dont understand. why quantam physics explain there is a God?
I dont agree with this. I think this is just something propagated by a society that exaggerates the imporance of sex. Shoghi Effendi has referred to this as well. See, materialism is endless, theres no end point of it, its just a continuing hunger. Spirituality is also endless but its a continuing climb towards God, and consciousness, not a thirst for repeated material thrills.
No,materialism is not endless hunger.I hold to the epicurean view that, if your goal is material things, then yes, that is endless hunger.However, the point is true happiness can be achieved thru material means. That is, gaining pleasure in this world and reflecting on that pleasure. I think it is true that a lust for belongings, power etc is unquenchable. But that doesn't mean therefore happiness can be got thru "other worldly" means. :)
I do not agree, because its human nature to constantly acquire, be it to acquire material things, acquire power, acquire territory, acquire that which boosts are pride, whatever it is. The whole concept of that is the problem for virtually all suffering in the world.
Humans nature is trainable is certain ways. Epicurus showed how one could take pleasure thru the material world without being a materialist (in the sense that we to-day apprehend that term). And he isn't the only one. You are wrong to suggest that taking pleasure from material stuff needfully leads to insatiable hunger for stuff. One trains ones desires .
I am not suggesting asceticism in the least bit. In fact thats clearly rejected in the Baha'i Writings. I am saying is that if our primary focus of desire are those things which are rooted in the material world (attitudes, not luxury per se) and not something that transcends it all, we can never "train" our desires because there is nothing else.
We're just gonnu have to agree to disagree, I guess. But check out some of Epicurus' writings if you want one man's idea on how to live a material life and be happy and so on. :)
On sex: I agree, our society makes a biiiiiiiiiiig deal out of sex. Too big a deal. And particularly it focuses on casual, one-night-stand type sex. That ain't healthy. But I think any rejection of our natural desires is downright unhealthy, and will only lead to inner discord. What we need is to accept our natures to be truly happy, and find happiness in our natures. And sex can help happiness imo. And sex is a part of our nature.
Its not rejecting our natural desires. The Baha'i writings explicitly say the value of the sex impulse is to be appreciated. However, in our natural setting. We have consciousness, and are the only things that can fall out of the circle of life and destroy the world, in this world - unlike the animals. Thus, in order to save ourselves and this world we cannot act like the animals - such action is what got us to this point.
I'm not sure I follow. Who's saying act like animals? The idea is sex can be used other than for kids as a means to acquiring happiness (in part). And springing from this I don't see how it is wrong for gay sex to happen.
Its a material faux happiness. its a temporary thrill. there is no point in your life where you can acquire as much sex as you need, its an endless persuit. and the stakes get higher as the thrill wears off (and it does), which is why middle aged couples need to "spice it up" and the porn industry has gone to absolute extremes compared to say 50 years ago
I've said elsewhere, but I'll repeat it: who is advocating a life of endless debauchery? Not me. You don't seem to be able to grasp, with respect, that there is a variety of paths inbetween your worldview, and a totally carnal, self-indulged view. I'm really not sure how to put it in terms you would get.... :) I'll think about it.
animals have INTERNAL instincts which let the circle of life flow for the better. everything THEY do is natural? we are the only beings on the planet that can disrupt this and cause catastrophe, out of line with "mother nature" thus, if not internal our guidance must be acquired externally. religion is the external guidance that serves us as such.
and in the end...its just a few muscle contractions and a fluid release. lets get over it...
The problem with this statement is religion isn't external; it is man-made. There is no evidence, none, to the contrary. Our guidance is our consciences, which are partly inborn, and partly socially constructed.
As for your debasement of sex... lol! It's not about the mechanicalness of the act, it's about the spiritual joining of two people who love each other. Don't tell me you've never experienced that? If not, that's unfortunate
Our self made "consciences" though have lead us to the world hunger, poverty, and complete and utter nuclear destruction. If we try hard enough, we can justify anything, even murder, and have a clear conscience. Animals do not conduct themselves as such, because they have instincts (unlike us)that keep them in line with the right-way circle of life. thus our guidance must come externally if we are to have a shot.
No disrespect, but whenever "God" has had his say in our morals, things have been usually much much worse.
People can justify anything to themselves, whether they think there's a God there or not. We don't, and there's no reason to think, that we derive our morals from "God".
As for animals, if the environent changes, which is does from time to time, one species of animal invades and wipes out half the ecosystem of a new area. How is that different to what man does, at the core?
"spiritual union" based on a material act is delusional and confused imo. its only psychological sentiment that grows with that, which we poeticise in our society.
An interesting thought, but one which I don't know that there is any evidence for. Remember, I view terms such as "spirit" differently to you; you think there is an actual spirit, I think it is a useful term for certain deep elements of the mind or psyche.
However, homoSOCIALITY is perfectly accepted in the Baha'i Faith. People of the same sex can love each other finely, its just crossing that over into sexual acts which is prohibited. Keep in mind sex and love are controlled by different parts of the brain and thus actually mutually exclusive things, which we as vulnerable people often confuse and intermingle.
I dout sex and love are mutually exclusive. There are different kinds of love, and romantic love definitely has a sexual element. Anyway, this doesn't explain why having gay sex is sinful.
Sex and love are mutually exclusive. I am not speaking out of faith when I say that. I am speaking out of science. The only connection is that we feel less inhibited and more submissive with someone we love, and thus the experience is enhanced. Our media and society exaggerates the rest and imprints it in our brains.
Yes and no. Define "love", for a start. As I said, there are very DIFFERENT kinds of emotional feeling we call "love". I think sexual love is a legitimate form. And I think romantic love involves sexual love. How do I know this? Because I feel it myself. Sex and love can go hand in hand, and for millions they do. And hand in hand = NOT "mutually exclusive".
Love in the truely spiritual sense. The type of love we have for our friends and our family. Some may say "oh i dont love so and so like i love my friends of family" its the same type of confidant companionship, just on a different level. same category, different degree. another category would be the material lust which we confuse with love.
I, personally, do not confuse lust with love. But I know the love I feel for my g/f has a sexual element to it. And having sex with her is good for our emotions in many ways. Saying they are mutually exclusive is wrong, and the wrongness of it can be attested to by millions of people. The reason I say romantic and sexual love are closely connected is cos part of romantic love is wanting someone to breed with (at a certain level of consciousness)...
Your love for her that leads to sexual attraction, in a purely material sense, is mother nature telling you she is a worthy candidate for your seed, and now its time to reproduce. this is a practicality of life. that practicality does not exist when two people of the same sex express sexual actions.
By the way, being controlled by different parts of the brain does NOT mean they are "mutually exclusive", I have to say. This is fallacious. For that sort of implies that the brain has discrete separate sections, and there is no overlap, or sharing of functions, or interplay, and so on. And that is not so.
Its saying that the impulses are of a different sort. You cannot group them all together and call it an "orientation" Its as absurd and un-scientific as saying "the devil is giving you those thoughts and making you gay" just on the other end of the spectrum.
There are different kinds of love, I say again. I think it is preferable for you to define what kind of love you keep referring to (for instance, I think the love between father and child does not invovle sexual love). :) And to repeat myself: I think romantic love and certain sexual love are completely intertwined.
Another reason was because of how the Bahá'í writings explain life after death. Another is the immaculate system that Bahá'u'lláh ordained and Abdu'l-Bahá and Shoghi Effendi established. I could probably go on for a long time... so I wont :)
I suppose that this is the biggest reason for me. I also have to say that if I had not found the Bahá'í faith (I was born into it but didn't know it) I would probably not have become "religious".
This is also another reason, because the way the Bahá'í writings explain the interconnectedness of all things -progressive revelation among them- just, for me, defies any earthly explanation.
If I understand progressive revelation, I don't see what about it is unearthly an explanation. In fact, it seems a fairly straight-forward way of accounting for the similarities and differences 'tween religions in a Godly context. Certainly nothing that couldn't be completely down to man :)
But first and foremost it gave me what I had been searching for since I was a boy. A fulfilling purpose, a reason to be happy and a way to change the world to a better place.
There's no way anyone can argue with or take away this point. If that's what it's done for you, then that's what it's done for you! Altho I would contend, naturally, that you coulda been fulfilled and with a purpose etc without religion.
I said "okay God, here I am, I'm willing to change but there's one thing you have to do. Give my life purpose." And so it happened that I delved into the writings of the Bahá'í faith and what kept me delving was the logicality of how it explained religion, God, Prophets, life and all kinds of things.
I told myself, "okay Jakob, we'll try this religion thing for a while and if it doesn't work, then no harm done." Well I tried it and it seemed okay and I was reading some things but still also following my old lifestyle. Then there came a kind of moment and I had to decide and so I made a pact with God.
I've always been very fixated on purpose. And for a while I couldn't see that there was any set purpose in this world, having seen how horrible it can be. I don't know if it's something about personality but even though I would set myself certain purposes to strive for they never fulfilled my need for Purpose. And so I led a fairly miserable life for a while and finally gave up...
:) I don't mind you disputing them how else would I learn.
umm... some are very difficult to explain because of their personal nature while others can be quite clear. But it is the sum of all these different reasons which give the the feeling of certitude that there certainly is a Creator, a life after this one and so on.
There are so many different reasons why a person is or becomes gay and I think genetics is a small factor compared to factors such as upbringing, trauma, social molding(translating from Icelandic)and so on. If a person is gay because of some trauma he experienced when he was a child is it okay to just leave it at that or should the person be helped to deal with his past?
There is no evidence or reason whatsoever to suppose gay people are gay because of a trauma. Most gay people are absolutely normal; they just find themselves attracted in certain ways to people of the same sex.
social molding is a neat term: I will use it henceforth! But we say "socialisation" in English if you're interested :)
I'm sorry if my post was unpleasant I didn't mean it to be. What we are doing here is discussing some points of view but I would never go and say to a gay person "what you do is a sin" that's totally un-bahá'í. But if someone asks me about my point of view of homosexuality I'll try to be honest without hurting that persons feelings. I don't have anything against gays but I don't believe that being gay is a natural condition.
As I said about you being a nice bloke, I don't sense any meanness in you. The post itself was not unpleasant, but the comparison of a naughty child to a gay person I found displeasant! :D I don't understand the statement "being gay is [not] a natural condition". I don't understand it, cos it clearly IS a natural condition. It matters not, anyway, as seeing no one is harmed or impaired by it, where's the problem?
Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is within you and it is outside you.
Just to overload you with posts here's one more about unity in diversity :)
"In reality all are members of one human family -- children of one Heavenly Father. Humanity may be likened unto the vari-colored flowers of one garden. There is unity in diversity. Each sets off and enhances the other's beauty."
"Hate the sin, love the sinner"... well, actually this is a basic principle of education. You should never tell a kid "you are a bad boy/girl" you say "you know that thing you did wasn't very good, next time do this instead", in a nutshell.
LOL, you sound like a nice bloke, but I have to say this post from you is pretty, well, unpleasant. Homosexuality is not a sin, and I see no reason gay people should avoid their nature and I see no reason for them to be punished. Please explain to me how homosexuality is sinful. :) (other than just, "God and the prophets say so").
Bahá'ís believe that Satan is not an actual person but a symbolic reference to the animal nature of man since there is always this struggle between the instinct and the intellect/spirit. The Jihad spoken of in Islam for instance is referring to this inner struggle.
I find such an interpretation fine. Whenever I read scripture, I usually give it the metaphor spin, simple because I don't believe in the literalness of most of it. :)
Umm... Bahá'ís don't believe in a physical heaven or hell. To Bahá'ís Paradise is closeness to God and Hell is distance from Him (gender neutral). In a way you can be experiencing heaven or hell right here in this world since it is a state rather than a place.
This guy's a quack. I see absolutely no information on Baha'ism (in this video) and misinformation on Jesus, i.e., he was a follower of John the Baptist.
bornbranded29 2 months ago
This fellow is ignorant of the evident history of the religion of the Bab and Baha'u'llah.
For those who believe that "The Truth shall set you free", go to Baha'i dot org and study using your own mind and prayerful heart.
Diverse people from the entire broad spectrum of humanity have embraced the teachings of Baha'u'llah and call themselves Baha'is.
It is this Unity in Diversity which attracts millions of people from every race, religions, and background to its warm and loving embrace.
Peace...
fsmtdaler 10 months ago
@hootdawgg God wrote the bible through man but by the power of His Holy Spirit.
MetalEvangelion777 1 year ago
bahai'ism? ism? really?
lol, take ism out it sounds funny
UltimatePersian 1 year ago
what is mysterious about bahaism? its just another organised religion, that tries to differentiate itself from others by seeming to make itself compatible with other monotheistic religions even if those religions contradict each other or have no real common view, its a really silly and asinine concept, thats been done to death over the last 2000 years.
fewoifhiu3hfklew 1 year ago
bah haha im laughing at you richebe2b
you call urself a christian
yet!! ... you are the most prejudice person ive heard ..you cant call ur self a christian .. because you dont even do half the things jesus wanted you to .. sorry .. but your a failuse ... bekus ur so prejudice .. jesus would be ashamed in you .. i know its harsh! but open ur eyes .. go read some books and stop posting ur dumb comments without investigating about the faith .. you silly 2 year old prejudice close minded sad person
mateenpiano123 3 years ago
I think that there will come a time we will recognise the essence of al great teachings.
bahai is a nice start. i dont believe the guy was the christ. in what i understand he can not be. if there is a real 2nd coming it will be more noticed.
but the central idea of bahai i agree to most strongly. that is, to find the essential of the message apart from dogma and formed tradition
fluibertje 3 years ago
[but the central idea of bahai i agree to most strongly. that is, to find the essential of the message apart from dogma and formed tradition]
You do realize that Bahai itself is also a form of dogma and formed tradition that branched off Islam correct?
Point being, you are trying to disect the very (essential) thing you are apart of.
KingKumaForever 2 years ago
sorry i dont grasp the meaning of your last remark, yes i understand that bahai is a branch-off of islam.
fluibertje 2 years ago
It is no surprise then that Baha'i faith proclaims Baha'u'llah to be the second coming of Christ. Jesus Himself warned us in the gospel of Matthew concerning the end times: "Then if any one says to you, 'Lo, here is the Christ!' or 'There he is!' do not believe it. For false Christ's and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect" (Matthew 24:23-24).
meaculpa9r 3 years ago
I like how people like you just assume that Baha'u'allah is a false prophet without investigating the texts of the Bahai faith, you hide behind the New Testament and don't even bother to educate yourselves about other faiths. WE ARE ALL CHILDREN OF GOD MY FRIEND
HolyN0va 3 years ago
I'll accept Baha'ulla if you can convince me with your answer: How can all the messengers be from the same God when... Buddha didn't believe in the existence of God. Jesus claimed to be the begotten Son of God when Muhammad declared God could not have a son. Hindus believe that there is no absolute deity while Islam teaches there is only one very specific deity. Islam teaches that Muhammad was the final prophet. Baha'i teaches that he was not and Baha'ulla is the new manifestation. Same Ggod???
rexenm 3 years ago
HolyN0va, there are plenty of Christians and Bahai's alike who've looked into your faith and concluded it false solely based on the written texts themselves. Please realize that the claims some Christians make against Bahais are not without logic or reason.
There is a point why we as Christians don't embrace Baha'u'allah as a prophet of God (Matthew 24:23 - 27)
Also, according to Jesus not everyone is a child of God (John 8:44) see also (1 John 3:10) So we are NOT all children of God
KingKumaForever 2 years ago
@HolyN0va I've investigated this religion for a long time.members of my family follow it.I used to say the prayers when I was a kid...except I felt like i needed to say AMEN after ya ba ha la pa.&for good reason.Only Jesus/God the father,Yahweh/Holy Spirit can guide me,protect me
&illumin the lamp of my heart,etc.He is the only remover of difficulties.The Godhead is 3 in 1.Father.Holy Spirit.Son.Good works can't save you.This religion contradicts it's self.Bahualla is NOT the Holy Spirit.
MetalEvangelion777 1 year ago
Bahai'i is not a religon, is just a collection of other faiths...
smaweee 3 years ago
Why do Baha'is follow dead prophets?
Muhammad - DEAD!
The Bab - DEAD!
Baha'u'llah - DEAD!
Jesus? See Revelation 1:18!
copacetic5 3 years ago
As Norman Geisler put it:
It is one thing to claim deity and quite another to have the credentials to support that claim. Christ did both. He offered three unique and miraculous facts as evidence of his claim: the fulfillment of prophecy, a uniquely miraculous life, and the resurrection from the dead. All of these are historically provable and unique to Jesus of Nazareth. We argue, therefore, that Jesus alone claims to be and proves to be God.
meaculpa9r 3 years ago
if everyone encouraged homosexuality and it became more acceptable as a way of life, how are future generations supposed to be created?
GenniBabe 3 years ago 2
Homosexuality isn't a lifestyle choice. It is something innate.
BryanAJParry 3 years ago
I have a similar opinion, although it isn't quite as optimistic. I predict that in the Middle East and other currently Muslim countries Baha'i will take over, but many of the same advantages Baha'i provides can also be provided by Wicca, which is home-grown in England and thus should be more popular in the West. For this reason I predict they will each take a chunk of the world. Immediately afterwards politicians will start distorting their doctrines to justify wars, and then back to ground 0
Mustex4 4 years ago
I was pleasantly surprised at this video, as I expected a long rant on the evils of religion. Shows I still have some prejudices to overcome.
As to the video, with the exception of the words "cult" and "foolishness" I found myself in agreement with the vast majority of what you said.
I think that your view is overly cynical, but that is your right.
PeterJDeer 4 years ago
Hey, cheers Peter. Glad to have surprised, and dare I suggest such a thing, DELIGHTED you. :)
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
I will try to clear up the confusion over my talk of the "marketability" of a religion with a quote from Sam Harris (End of Faith, p.31): "Because most religions offer no valid mechanism by which their core beliefs can be tested and revised, each new generation of believers is condemned to inherit the superstitions and tribal hatreds of its predecessors". My contention is Bahaiism may have succeeded to a degree "most" religions have not.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
"Blessed are such as hold fast to the cord of kindliness and tender mercy and are free from animosity and hatred." -Baha'u'llah
"Baha'u'llah continually urges man to free himself from the superstitions and traditions of the past and become an investigator of reality, for it will then be seen that God has revealed his light many times in order to illumine mankind in the path of evolution, in various countries and through many different prophets, masters and sages." -Abdul Baha
PeterJDeer 4 years ago
Hey, glad you think I'm cute; that's something at least :P :) Fo' sho', I need to read more, not just Bahaiism, but more everything!!
The Bab's following to-day is 500,000? Okay, if that is so, then the internets lied to me.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
no at the time of the Bab's revelation there where 500,000 Babi's today there are just a handful! Those Babi's almost all became Bahai.
LieylaK 4 years ago
Okay then, well I don't think I suggested the Bab's followers were always small in number. I said they became so.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
Hey your cute and I appriciate you commenting on the Bahai Faith. Although, I wish I could talk to you in real life. Many things you have to say are quite good and smart in my humble opinion. Some things maybe you haven't read yet about the Bahai Faith in depth. Like The Bab did not have a small following his following was estimated by the British Amasador of the time to be about 500,000 people.
LieylaK 4 years ago
(continuation from above) About 20,000 of His followers alone were killed by the clerical government because they refused to deny him. I like the FACT that you think ...thinking is the most valuable tool in my estimation that person has. (continue next comment) I just have a question. Who is this brilliant marketer of the Bahai faith?
LieylaK 4 years ago
Thinking, and also logic, reason, and civilised discourse are the fundamentals of a civil society and of a sund morality. :)
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
Why have you removed my many challenges to your thinking?
Shadetreehill 4 years ago
No, I was wrong with the above question. Forgive me. I was confusing this blog with your other one. Again, I apologize.
Shadetreehill 4 years ago
No worries.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
To BryanAJParry, absolutely. Coincidentally, that very principle is in accordance with Baha'i teachings, which say almost exactly the same thing.
PeterJDeer 4 years ago
(continuation from above) We have no have no clergy to "market" or spin our religion...genrally every Bahai reads the writting of Baha'u'llah (pronounced Ba-ha-oo-lah) and does as his conciousness dictates to the best of his abilities to reflect that truth. In your opinion, who creating this big marketing spin you suggest? You didn't mention how you think the marketing is done...you just browsed the history and very basic beliefs
LieylaK 4 years ago
No, I wasn't talking about an actual marketting campaign. I meant the tenets - or the way they are usually propounded - is quite effective marketting for this religion in itself. I mean, e.g, it does not say "all other religions are wrong and you are a dummy to believe them". Indeed, this is quite far from what it says.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
(continuation of above comment)You seem to suggest that we need to be better at marketing becuase you seem to think that the Bahai Faith has not yet reached anywhere near it's capacity of followers. I don't recall you saying anything bad or really negative about the Bahai Faith...it seems that you have a favorable impression of it despite your disagreement that God exists. That is good that you took time to do this.
LieylaK 4 years ago
I think the Bahai religion is fairly well "marketed" in a certain sense and I wouldn't at all be surprised if in half a thousand years or so it had become far larger and far more influential than it presently is. :)
And yeh, I don't think I've said anything particularly bad about the religon (contrast that with Isam and Xianity where I have!)
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
Okay, I am a Baha'i, and first off, I am not offended at all. My good friend was atheist and is now Baha'i . With the belief of God aside and all the religious details.... Let's just take the beliefs of Baha'i's.....UNITY.....Equality of women and men......Justice.....Steadfastness....Are things your are opposed to? I think these are noble virtues that people and the whole world could greatly benefit from.
martinemt 4 years ago
I'm not opposed to those values, but they are not exclusive to the Bahai faith, ya know. What about unproovable things such as the metaphysical claims of the religion?
Also, I s'pose Bahaiism affords homosexuality equality, too, right...
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
Absolutely correct: they aren't exclusive to the Baha'i Faith simply because each One of the Great Educators taught them to humanity. They are eternal truths that we all must constantly strive to internalize. But, regarding your assertion about homosexuality vis-a-vis the Baha'i Faith (not Bahaiisim), there are many fundamental things you don't understand. (continued)
Shadetreehill 4 years ago
It is you who prefers to limit your identity by framing human identity from a context of sexual orientation. Thus, by caging oneself within these quite limited parameters, one is denying oneself a far, far, greater knowledge of human reality. "Baha'i...Marketing", your other blog, shows this.
Shadetreehill 4 years ago
Huh? Since when do I limit my identity by framing human identity from a context of sexual orientation. You're just making things up!!
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
I have probably said it more than a dozen times now: the "Bahai Faith" vs. "Bahaiism" debate is OVER on my videos. I don't want anyone to mention it any more as I have already discussed the point to death. :)
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
Then, will you kindly and correctly either remove this blog from YouTube or, whenever it attracts someone new, inform them that the debate is over? This is justice. Otherwise, everyone will question your motives.
Shadetreehill 4 years ago
This blog does not hinge on the terminology, does it, so why would I remove it?
The debate about "Bahai Faith" vs. "Bahaiism" was never begun by me: I have ended it because I do not wish it discussed on this vid as it is irrelevant to my point and I have dealt with it several times.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
you say allmost all the bahai names wrong.
llamalinden 4 years ago
This kind of comment is becoming exceptionally tiresome.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
llamalinden, you have to understand that not all people are raised with these words, and that the pronunciations are often quite different phonetically from the spellings.
To BryanAJParry...I sympathize, as someone who couldn't pronounce a lick of it a few years ago, but just remember that we get this all the time. It is similarly tiresome. Patience on both sides of the language barrier is the best course.
PeterJDeer 4 years ago
Cheers for the support, Peter. But to be honest, I personally AM quite patient in these matters. I'm not so petty as to try to point out flaws in the way others speak, as llamalinden does, as if that somehow has a bearing on the points I'm making. Sheer petty-mindedness is all that preoccupation is. :)
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
Thanks for your positive remarks, Bryan. I look forward to hearing what role you think the Baha'u'lla's teachings themselves will have in this phenomenal growth. We Baha'is are definitely out there offering his teachings and will share with anyone with a willing heart and mind. Have you seen the Baha'i videos by Baha'is on youtube? Again, good job. You have a good voice for documentaries as well.
jaisee 4 years ago
Cheers. I'm glad you appreciate the vid. I've had mixed reactions, tho.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
Very cool videos. It's good to see someone who can think for their self. It's a good and rare quality. Independent investigation of truth - no matter what the outcome. refreshing.
wrland 4 years ago
Cheers, glad you appreciate it. :)
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
Bryan, instead of looking at the Baha'I laws "downstream" to question why we have this and that laws, you should look upstream to our theological concepts and understand what we believe about human action, by what standard they should be in, and why.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. I try to do both, but there are quite a few things I'm interested in besides the Bahai Faith, ya know ;P And there's only finite time to do everything in.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
Its through that, that the laws are explained. I personally used to have very different views on homosexuality, but when I came to my faith, I began to understand the reasoning, and how it links with every aspect of the faith.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
Don't feel am I trying to trick you; I'm not. But I want you to make sure I follow you; you never used to think homosexuality was bad UNTIL you became a Bahai? Is that correct, as that is how I read your above post. :)
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
Actually I went from hating them, to blindly following what anyone deems is "progressive" to where I am today. Since I have homosexual family members, it was this issue which kept me away from my faith for some time.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
When I grew older and I understood that the faith does NOT have the an issue against homosexuals. First of all homosexuality means homosexual sex, only the MODERN meaning made it into an "orientation" combining it with homosociality and homo-romanticism. its the sex part which is an exploitation of a material impulse, just like extra or pre marital heterosexual sex.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
An interesting semantic distinction. What is wrong with homosexual sex, then? That's a point I'm still not clear on.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
In the Baha'i Faith our goal is to rid ourselves of materialist mindset, so that we can transcend the draw of these impulses and bring our consciousness closer to God. Even in heterosexual sex within marriage, we need to see the practicality of it FOR the material world, and how THIS material action is needed, just like eating is needed. this is virtually impossible in homosexual sex as it serves no purpose to the material world.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
The purpose it serves is an expression of the intimacy between two people who love each other.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
i think that is accomplished substantially without material interaction, and the physical interraction is just our reproductive impulses taking over when the feeling is right, so to keep the species going. we confuse that impulse with love, which is spiritual.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
Interesting point. However, the question is how do you express yourself that intimately without deep bodily contact?
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
I think thats an excellent question. In my own experience it comes with existentialism and atonement. To atone oneself to see the reality that the material world as marginal, and our consciousness is on a separate plane, thereby makes the impulse marginal and easy to shrug off if not never encounter.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
I think tho we're getting off the track. Why is it wrong for gays to express their love and intimacy in the sexual way, but it's alright for straights? Saying "God says" is not an argument, I'm afraid to say.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
Words cannot be passionate and intimate?
PeterJDeer 4 years ago
Now, I never said that. The question is on what rational basis do we say it is wrong for gays to experience that intimacy but it is alright for straights? Why must gays subvert their natural, healthy desires by only talking, whilst us straights can bonk till our brains fly out?
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
I agree. What I'm saying is, a lot of people like the one who responded to your other video about Baha'i's, look at our faith as compared to the standards of what secular society deems "progressive," based on the values of a secular society. When really..peopel who come to the Baha'i Faith aren't people who say "oh i like this law, that law, and that law" its people who agree with the root theology, the nature of the soul and our purpose here.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
Theologically, we believe that this world is a "material matrix" which is of marginal importance in the scope of the spiritual world, which we primarily exist in. It is our goal in the faith to become conscious of our spiritual primacy, and thereby transcend the draw material impulses, as opposed to animals, which are primarily material beings.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
Y'see, I agree and I disagree... I think the best thing we can do is nurture our "souls", but I use that word metaphorically to mean our character. I think, by definition, we can only use "material" means to achieve a development of our "soul", as material is all we've got. Ya know, philosophies that reject god and a hereafter do not needfully involve unadulturated hedonism ;D
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
We see the material and the spiritual as two ends of a spectrum. We must consciously existential-ize from seeing material primacy, and knowing it is marginal, as is all the material sensations as simply what the matrix is telling our brains
KMehrabi 4 years ago
This is an interesting viewpoint, if not one I hold to. I have one question tho: how can you be sure there is an afterlife? How can you be sure of the rest of your beliefs, too? The only answer I can think of is "Baha'u'llah said so"... :)
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
Hmm I guess I partly answered this in the previous post, but expanding on it, that which I described i n the previous post its very much in line with quantum theory, which asserts that human consciousness affects matter, and that even after the bodies death the consciousness exists transcendent of time and matter.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
That doesn't confirm or deny that Baha'u'llah was speaking true, tho. BTW, I don't think quantum theory does say that "consciousness exists transcendent of time and matter". If you'ld furnish me with a source for that, I would be thankful. :)
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
i recommend "the quantum self" by danah zohar. i also recommend "quantum questions" edited by ken wilber. this one is very objective!!
KMehrabi 4 years ago
Cheers, after this current pile of books, I'll look into it :)
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
Thus, our actions on this world, as of marginal relevance as they are, must be committed according to the will of God. Doing so, will help us gain consciousness and bring us closer to God. It's the same reason why we have an annual fasting period, so we can consciously rise above the physical impulses that tell us we are "hungry" and rather atone ourselves higher.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
I think that fasting in many ways is potentially useful. But, being an atheist, I don't believe in the first bit of your post. How can we know the will of God? And I also dispute that our actions are of marginal important; they are of supreme importance, for this is the only world we'll get. That drives one all the more to develop one's character and try to achieve happiness.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
We know the will of God (as Baha'i's) through His Messengers, and the Revelation they give. Through quantum physics we know there is a nexus to all space/time/matter/etc. likewise we know that human consciousness alters matter. thus there is a source to such consciousness, an "all-conscious" and then its just a question of what would such an essence do with that consciousness
KMehrabi 4 years ago
The "sex" impulse is another material impulse that must be used in accordance to divine will, and we must consciously transcend beyond its calls otherwise as best as possible. In the Baha'i Faith sex must be practiced within marriage. At the same time the Baha'i writings explain that the procreation of children is the sacred and primary purpose of marriage.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
Define "marriage". I certainly think sex within a stable, loving relationship is the best kind of sex, whether you are officially wed or not (and whether it is a straight or a gay relationship).
The meaning of life is this: reproduce. We are vessiles for spreading DNA. That's it. But that's a rather unfulfilling meaning. Our meaning should be to seek out happiness, imo. :)
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
the Baha'i Faith agrees the meaning of life is to achieve happiness, but the writings explain its not following our material desires which will get us true happiness, but rather existentialism thereof and submission to God's commandments.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
Heh, that is where you and me part company, I think... and what a parting! I personally reject that we can know anything beyond what we can understand... obvious, but I mean to say that God, the next world, etc, are not things we can truly know. I would suggest pretty much by definition, in fact. Thus we should only worry about what we know.... which is this life, and material pleasures.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
Well if we agree that God is the all-conscious, then the only thing really separating us is the idea that certain individuals have a consciousness far greater than ours, to the likeness of that source
KMehrabi 4 years ago
The thing is, is a human really ever capable of seeing God or grasping him or his message, when God is so much mightier than anything we can possibly concieve of?
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
The Baha'i Writings explain the latter. That it is so beyond us that we cannot grasp it. However, that we as humans can existential-ize; increase our consciousness to greater grasp it (marginal as that may be), and thus we grow "closer" to God. This comes through spirituality, but shutting the door on spirituality leads to the opposite effect; distance
KMehrabi 4 years ago
You see what I'm saying, tho? Given it is impossible by definition to grasp God, how come so many people are so sure they know his will? Seems to be to be a paradox.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
Speaking of that, its that distance vs. nearness to God which defines our meaning of "afterlife," a latter system of distance rather than a strict "heaven" or "hell."
KMehrabi 4 years ago
That's more believable, imo, than the heaven-hell paradigm. Still not particularly appealing to me, tho, and there is no real evidence for it. I don't think Quantum theory does show there is an afterlife and so on.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
"afterlife" in a judaio/christian/muslim dogmatic sense i would say quantum physics disproves. i would say it proves the bahai sense though.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
This may well be true; I don't know enuff about the Bahai Faith to say. I'll look at your book recommendations. :)
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
Cool, stay in touch.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
Marriage is an institution created by religion through which the family unit is facilitated.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
I disagree in a certain sense. That is, I think "marriage" in the sense of two people coming together **IS** highly beneficial in loads of ways. But I do not think one particular form of marriage, as practiced within any one religion, is "best". Marriage is not a religious concept in and of itself, and I dout it was "created" by religion.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
The thing that bothers me is I don't see how it is possible to discern God's will, so how comes so many people are sure God wants us to have sex this way or that? It seems to me nonsense.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
This is just a question of what is an exploitation of a material impulse.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
"exploitation"? I'ld rather follow the wise teachings of the Karma Sutra... in any case, "exploit" is a word I'ld use of sex, but only in the non-derogatory senses of the word. Sex can be exploited to great effect for happiness, I would argue. :)
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
I recommend reading "The Seven Valleys" Revealed by Baha'u'llah. its very short, and very much explains the Baha'i belief on the soul and its progress.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
I'll try to remember to look into it! :D
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
cool. i'm really interested in your thoughts on it.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
Cheers, altho I have no idea WHEN I'll get round to looking into it. :)
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
Obviously sex outside of that is just an exploitation of a material impulse, causing us to forget about our spiritual primacy and rely upon material pleasures as our primary source of happiness. So thus, the laws reflect this, and any sexual actions outside of the institution where procreation of children is possible is prohibited. This includes homosexuality.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
It's been known for a long time that sex can actually be very good for you on an emotional basis, and helpful for developing character. A disturbing trend in religions is the idea that sex for non-reproduction is bad; in what sense is fulfilling our natural desires bad? Anything to excess is not helpful, but there's a world between wild sexual orgies and only having sex to make kids. Like, ya know, making love with your (wo)man whom you love for fun.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
I'ld also like to say that I am a materialist, basically, and I think development of our "souls" AKA character is intimately connected with material pleasures, as I believe this is all there is. I cannot understand the oft-repeated idea that starving yourself of pleasures in this world will make things so much better for you in the next, when we don't even know there is a next world or what it's like.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
I believe the "soul" is our consciousness that exists beyond our material constructs. In quantum physics this holds true. Have you studied quantum Bryan?
KMehrabi 4 years ago
It's very interesting. I know a little about it; I've never studied it. The closest I'll get is popular science books, as I'm not bright enuff to get it "raw". But for what it's worth, and just so everyone else knows, not everyone is as convinced as some theologists are that quantum theory prooves the soul, and god, and so on. ;D
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
I really recommend reading up on it. It doesnt "prove dogma" rather it removes all of those fanciful tales fro the equation and proves the true nature of theology is far more practical and down to earth than humans historically interpreted. thats my opinion.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
I appreciate you appended "thats my opinion" to the end of your statement ;D
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
I don't think anyone can talk about quantum theory, even secularist scientists, without adding "thats my opinion." by nature...
There are those aspects though which are so proven, common truths basically, which I dont think anyone can deny has religious parallels
KMehrabi 4 years ago
lol. "If you think you understand quantum theory, you don't understand quantum theory".
Quantum theory is deeply mysterious. The difference is that there is evidence for its truth; there isn't evidence for the "truths" espoused by religions.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
I disagree. In quantum physics we can see that there is a "God" but thats stripped of say christian dogmatic teachings. Rather God is the nexus of all matter,time, space, etc. likewise we know through quantum that human consciousness alters these elements. Thus, this nexus is the source of all consciousness. then its just a question what that conscious "being" as it were, would do
KMehrabi 4 years ago
i tried to post but it didnt come. im am not good in english but interested in bahai. can you explain this post for me, because i dont understand. why quantam physics explain there is a God?
nonadare 4 years ago
I dont agree with this. I think this is just something propagated by a society that exaggerates the imporance of sex. Shoghi Effendi has referred to this as well. See, materialism is endless, theres no end point of it, its just a continuing hunger. Spirituality is also endless but its a continuing climb towards God, and consciousness, not a thirst for repeated material thrills.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
No,materialism is not endless hunger.I hold to the epicurean view that, if your goal is material things, then yes, that is endless hunger.However, the point is true happiness can be achieved thru material means. That is, gaining pleasure in this world and reflecting on that pleasure. I think it is true that a lust for belongings, power etc is unquenchable. But that doesn't mean therefore happiness can be got thru "other worldly" means. :)
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
I do not agree, because its human nature to constantly acquire, be it to acquire material things, acquire power, acquire territory, acquire that which boosts are pride, whatever it is. The whole concept of that is the problem for virtually all suffering in the world.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
Humans nature is trainable is certain ways. Epicurus showed how one could take pleasure thru the material world without being a materialist (in the sense that we to-day apprehend that term). And he isn't the only one. You are wrong to suggest that taking pleasure from material stuff needfully leads to insatiable hunger for stuff. One trains ones desires .
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
I am not suggesting asceticism in the least bit. In fact thats clearly rejected in the Baha'i Writings. I am saying is that if our primary focus of desire are those things which are rooted in the material world (attitudes, not luxury per se) and not something that transcends it all, we can never "train" our desires because there is nothing else.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
We're just gonnu have to agree to disagree, I guess. But check out some of Epicurus' writings if you want one man's idea on how to live a material life and be happy and so on. :)
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
On sex: I agree, our society makes a biiiiiiiiiiig deal out of sex. Too big a deal. And particularly it focuses on casual, one-night-stand type sex. That ain't healthy. But I think any rejection of our natural desires is downright unhealthy, and will only lead to inner discord. What we need is to accept our natures to be truly happy, and find happiness in our natures. And sex can help happiness imo. And sex is a part of our nature.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
Its not rejecting our natural desires. The Baha'i writings explicitly say the value of the sex impulse is to be appreciated. However, in our natural setting. We have consciousness, and are the only things that can fall out of the circle of life and destroy the world, in this world - unlike the animals. Thus, in order to save ourselves and this world we cannot act like the animals - such action is what got us to this point.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
I'm not sure I follow. Who's saying act like animals? The idea is sex can be used other than for kids as a means to acquiring happiness (in part). And springing from this I don't see how it is wrong for gay sex to happen.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
Its a material faux happiness. its a temporary thrill. there is no point in your life where you can acquire as much sex as you need, its an endless persuit. and the stakes get higher as the thrill wears off (and it does), which is why middle aged couples need to "spice it up" and the porn industry has gone to absolute extremes compared to say 50 years ago
KMehrabi 4 years ago
I've said elsewhere, but I'll repeat it: who is advocating a life of endless debauchery? Not me. You don't seem to be able to grasp, with respect, that there is a variety of paths inbetween your worldview, and a totally carnal, self-indulged view. I'm really not sure how to put it in terms you would get.... :) I'll think about it.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
animals have INTERNAL instincts which let the circle of life flow for the better. everything THEY do is natural? we are the only beings on the planet that can disrupt this and cause catastrophe, out of line with "mother nature" thus, if not internal our guidance must be acquired externally. religion is the external guidance that serves us as such.
and in the end...its just a few muscle contractions and a fluid release. lets get over it...
KMehrabi 4 years ago
The problem with this statement is religion isn't external; it is man-made. There is no evidence, none, to the contrary. Our guidance is our consciences, which are partly inborn, and partly socially constructed.
As for your debasement of sex... lol! It's not about the mechanicalness of the act, it's about the spiritual joining of two people who love each other. Don't tell me you've never experienced that? If not, that's unfortunate
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
Our self made "consciences" though have lead us to the world hunger, poverty, and complete and utter nuclear destruction. If we try hard enough, we can justify anything, even murder, and have a clear conscience. Animals do not conduct themselves as such, because they have instincts (unlike us)that keep them in line with the right-way circle of life. thus our guidance must come externally if we are to have a shot.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
No disrespect, but whenever "God" has had his say in our morals, things have been usually much much worse.
People can justify anything to themselves, whether they think there's a God there or not. We don't, and there's no reason to think, that we derive our morals from "God".
As for animals, if the environent changes, which is does from time to time, one species of animal invades and wipes out half the ecosystem of a new area. How is that different to what man does, at the core?
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
"spiritual union" based on a material act is delusional and confused imo. its only psychological sentiment that grows with that, which we poeticise in our society.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
An interesting thought, but one which I don't know that there is any evidence for. Remember, I view terms such as "spirit" differently to you; you think there is an actual spirit, I think it is a useful term for certain deep elements of the mind or psyche.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
However, homoSOCIALITY is perfectly accepted in the Baha'i Faith. People of the same sex can love each other finely, its just crossing that over into sexual acts which is prohibited. Keep in mind sex and love are controlled by different parts of the brain and thus actually mutually exclusive things, which we as vulnerable people often confuse and intermingle.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
I dout sex and love are mutually exclusive. There are different kinds of love, and romantic love definitely has a sexual element. Anyway, this doesn't explain why having gay sex is sinful.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
Sex and love are mutually exclusive. I am not speaking out of faith when I say that. I am speaking out of science. The only connection is that we feel less inhibited and more submissive with someone we love, and thus the experience is enhanced. Our media and society exaggerates the rest and imprints it in our brains.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
Yes and no. Define "love", for a start. As I said, there are very DIFFERENT kinds of emotional feeling we call "love". I think sexual love is a legitimate form. And I think romantic love involves sexual love. How do I know this? Because I feel it myself. Sex and love can go hand in hand, and for millions they do. And hand in hand = NOT "mutually exclusive".
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
Love in the truely spiritual sense. The type of love we have for our friends and our family. Some may say "oh i dont love so and so like i love my friends of family" its the same type of confidant companionship, just on a different level. same category, different degree. another category would be the material lust which we confuse with love.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
I, personally, do not confuse lust with love. But I know the love I feel for my g/f has a sexual element to it. And having sex with her is good for our emotions in many ways. Saying they are mutually exclusive is wrong, and the wrongness of it can be attested to by millions of people. The reason I say romantic and sexual love are closely connected is cos part of romantic love is wanting someone to breed with (at a certain level of consciousness)...
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
Your love for her that leads to sexual attraction, in a purely material sense, is mother nature telling you she is a worthy candidate for your seed, and now its time to reproduce. this is a practicality of life. that practicality does not exist when two people of the same sex express sexual actions.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
By the way, being controlled by different parts of the brain does NOT mean they are "mutually exclusive", I have to say. This is fallacious. For that sort of implies that the brain has discrete separate sections, and there is no overlap, or sharing of functions, or interplay, and so on. And that is not so.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
Its saying that the impulses are of a different sort. You cannot group them all together and call it an "orientation" Its as absurd and un-scientific as saying "the devil is giving you those thoughts and making you gay" just on the other end of the spectrum.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
There are different kinds of love, I say again. I think it is preferable for you to define what kind of love you keep referring to (for instance, I think the love between father and child does not invovle sexual love). :) And to repeat myself: I think romantic love and certain sexual love are completely intertwined.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
I defined what kind of love I am referring to in another post, when you asked.
KMehrabi 4 years ago
I seem to have overlooked it then. What kind of love was it?
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
Another reason was because of how the Bahá'í writings explain life after death. Another is the immaculate system that Bahá'u'lláh ordained and Abdu'l-Bahá and Shoghi Effendi established. I could probably go on for a long time... so I wont :)
UDRF 4 years ago
Hey, if you want to go on, feel free!
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
I suppose that this is the biggest reason for me. I also have to say that if I had not found the Bahá'í faith (I was born into it but didn't know it) I would probably not have become "religious".
This is also another reason, because the way the Bahá'í writings explain the interconnectedness of all things -progressive revelation among them- just, for me, defies any earthly explanation.
UDRF 4 years ago
If I understand progressive revelation, I don't see what about it is unearthly an explanation. In fact, it seems a fairly straight-forward way of accounting for the similarities and differences 'tween religions in a Godly context. Certainly nothing that couldn't be completely down to man :)
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
But first and foremost it gave me what I had been searching for since I was a boy. A fulfilling purpose, a reason to be happy and a way to change the world to a better place.
UDRF 4 years ago
There's no way anyone can argue with or take away this point. If that's what it's done for you, then that's what it's done for you! Altho I would contend, naturally, that you coulda been fulfilled and with a purpose etc without religion.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
I said "okay God, here I am, I'm willing to change but there's one thing you have to do. Give my life purpose." And so it happened that I delved into the writings of the Bahá'í faith and what kept me delving was the logicality of how it explained religion, God, Prophets, life and all kinds of things.
UDRF 4 years ago
I told myself, "okay Jakob, we'll try this religion thing for a while and if it doesn't work, then no harm done." Well I tried it and it seemed okay and I was reading some things but still also following my old lifestyle. Then there came a kind of moment and I had to decide and so I made a pact with God.
UDRF 4 years ago
I've always been very fixated on purpose. And for a while I couldn't see that there was any set purpose in this world, having seen how horrible it can be. I don't know if it's something about personality but even though I would set myself certain purposes to strive for they never fulfilled my need for Purpose. And so I led a fairly miserable life for a while and finally gave up...
UDRF 4 years ago
:) I don't mind you disputing them how else would I learn.
umm... some are very difficult to explain because of their personal nature while others can be quite clear. But it is the sum of all these different reasons which give the the feeling of certitude that there certainly is a Creator, a life after this one and so on.
UDRF 4 years ago
Thank you very much for sharing your long and personal response.
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
There are so many different reasons why a person is or becomes gay and I think genetics is a small factor compared to factors such as upbringing, trauma, social molding(translating from Icelandic)and so on. If a person is gay because of some trauma he experienced when he was a child is it okay to just leave it at that or should the person be helped to deal with his past?
UDRF 4 years ago
There is no evidence or reason whatsoever to suppose gay people are gay because of a trauma. Most gay people are absolutely normal; they just find themselves attracted in certain ways to people of the same sex.
social molding is a neat term: I will use it henceforth! But we say "socialisation" in English if you're interested :)
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
I'm sorry if my post was unpleasant I didn't mean it to be. What we are doing here is discussing some points of view but I would never go and say to a gay person "what you do is a sin" that's totally un-bahá'í. But if someone asks me about my point of view of homosexuality I'll try to be honest without hurting that persons feelings. I don't have anything against gays but I don't believe that being gay is a natural condition.
UDRF 4 years ago
As I said about you being a nice bloke, I don't sense any meanness in you. The post itself was not unpleasant, but the comparison of a naughty child to a gay person I found displeasant! :D I don't understand the statement "being gay is [not] a natural condition". I don't understand it, cos it clearly IS a natural condition. It matters not, anyway, as seeing no one is harmed or impaired by it, where's the problem?
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is within you and it is outside you.
Gospel of Thomas 3
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
Just to overload you with posts here's one more about unity in diversity :)
"In reality all are members of one human family -- children of one Heavenly Father. Humanity may be likened unto the vari-colored flowers of one garden. There is unity in diversity. Each sets off and enhances the other's beauty."
UDRF 4 years ago
I hold with that quote! But my problem is institutions that are or are like religions **tend** to quell diversity (when they become powerful).
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
"Hate the sin, love the sinner"... well, actually this is a basic principle of education. You should never tell a kid "you are a bad boy/girl" you say "you know that thing you did wasn't very good, next time do this instead", in a nutshell.
UDRF 4 years ago
LOL, you sound like a nice bloke, but I have to say this post from you is pretty, well, unpleasant. Homosexuality is not a sin, and I see no reason gay people should avoid their nature and I see no reason for them to be punished. Please explain to me how homosexuality is sinful. :) (other than just, "God and the prophets say so").
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
Bahá'ís believe that Satan is not an actual person but a symbolic reference to the animal nature of man since there is always this struggle between the instinct and the intellect/spirit. The Jihad spoken of in Islam for instance is referring to this inner struggle.
UDRF 4 years ago
I find such an interpretation fine. Whenever I read scripture, I usually give it the metaphor spin, simple because I don't believe in the literalness of most of it. :)
BryanAJParry 4 years ago
Umm... Bahá'ís don't believe in a physical heaven or hell. To Bahá'ís Paradise is closeness to God and Hell is distance from Him (gender neutral). In a way you can be experiencing heaven or hell right here in this world since it is a state rather than a place.
UDRF 4 years ago
I was speaking more generally (I generally have Christianity or Islam in mind when I comment on such matters :) ). The questi