The place mentioned in those verses cannot be Hell because there is no mercy nor forgiveness nor concern for the living nor getting out of Hell. It can't be heaven because there is no suffering and no forgiveness/mercy needed in heaven.
The Sufferings that the thief was going through was his purgatory. Catholics believe that all of the crosses or sufferings in our life can rid of some of the time that we will have go through in purgatory and the more intense the suffering its possible to escape purgatory all together. The suffering offered up to our Lord can be use to purify us and make reparation for our pass sins
I can see the feeble creatures of heaven. Innocent and weak in their white garments. Sitting high above as faceless slaves. Their empty eyes, too blind to see. Terrorized and controlled with strings. Don't hide from me, open to your darker side. The die is cast, there is no turning back. Strike them down with hellish power. Warriors of the pit shall prevail. Their lives will end in despair and flames. No holy cross to protect their rotting souls. Prayers to ashes, angels to dust.
May our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ open your eyes to the wonders of His creation! Turn from your foolish ways says the Lord! Call on His name in times of trouble and times of joy, and he will save you!
Darkened and ghastly our demons shall fly. Flittering of the macabre under a cold moon. Decadent worship of black magic and sorcery. God is in the womb of the devil's dungeon. You can see your god writhing in agony. Necrosis is festering in his face. Venomous pins sticking in the skin. The poison prepared by our demons. God will be drawn and quartered. His skull will be chained to your head. We fold the life-less body to fit it in a casket. We shall then cross out the crucifix.
Purgatory & Catholicism are lies from the lips of Satan Himself. It's just another way Catholics try to earn Their way into Heaven, Which cannot be done. They want to say Hail Mary's and follow a bunch of rules that come down from a line of Tradition and think somehow it's going to get them a good seat in eternity.
There is only one way to God and it's through the shedding of innocent blood which broke the power of Sin allowing ANYONE who comes in the name of Christ Jesus access to Heaven.
There is no purgatory and no one one can save anybody from sin after death. The soul returns to the hands of God and after judgment, only then you will know if you will go to heaven or hell.
I advise you scrutinize all the teachings of Roman Catholicism. It is not too late.
stupid, all people will be judged on judgment day. praying for dead people won't help..salvation is an individual blessing..if you lived right, you will go to heaven..if you lived falsely, you'll go to hell..and no prayers by anybody can help you..also, there's no such thing as purgatory..read your bible
@manalongmanunuba --A description of Purgatory IS in the Bible; Try 2 Macc. Also, we do not let Jews define the biblical cannon for us but the Church Jesus founded.
Purgatory exist in the concept of Judaism before the death of Christ. before there wasn't any salvation or mediation with God but Christ died for our Sins. Purgatory doesn't exist anymore.Salvation exist now for humanity. somehow Tradition always try to dominate the true word of scripture.
This is some just one of the thousands of different people from different churches or groups or ideas that try to attack the catholic church aiming for the common ignorant and poorly catechized catholic to break him of what little faith he has. so many protestant translations and different interpretations of whats written, they're very young at most a couple hundred years old and non-united, leaving lots of room for personal interpretation. This video is misleading.
Galatians 2.....16 "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."
Galatians 2.....16 "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."
If purgatory and works based salvation were true then Satan and his angels could qualify for eternal salvation too. Salvation comes from accepting Christ's one time sacrifice on the cross, something Satan and his followers will never do.
...This ungodly system eventually ushered in the darkest period of history known to man, properly known as the "Dark Ages" (500-1500 A.D.). Through popes, bishops, and priests, Satan ruled Europe, and Biblical Christianity became illegal. Throughout all of this, however, there remained individual groups of true Christians, such as the Waldensens and the Anabaptists who would not conform to the Roman system.
The Roman Emperor Constantine established himself as the head of the church around 313 A.D., which made this new "Christianity" the official religion of the Roman Empire. The first actual Pope in Rome was probably Leo I (440-461 A.D.), although some claim that Gregory I was the first (590-604 A.D.). ...
When the apostles wrote the New Testament documents they were inspired by the power of the Holy Spirit. There wasn't any real issue of whether or not they were authentic. Their writings did not need to be deemed worthy of inclusion in the Canon of Scripture by a later group of men in the so-called Roman Catholic Church. To make such a claim is, in effect, to usurp the natural power and authority of God himself.
The Roman Catholic Church did not officially canonize the Apocrypha until the Council of Trent (1546 AD). This was in part because the Apocrypha contained material which supported certain Catholic doctrines, such as purgatory, praying for the dead, and the treasury of merit.
Must Christ be continually sacrificed in the mass, or was His blood sacrifice on the cross 100% sufficient to pay for all our sins for ever? In John19:30 Jesus said, "IT IS FINISHED", which in the Greek is "Tetelestai" meaning "to make an END, to ACCOMPLISH, to COMPLETE something, not mearly to end it, but to bring it to perfection or its intended goal."
@mjeffords85 Rome teaches that the Mass is a continual "sacrifice" of Jesus Christ, but God's word states that Jesus made the FINAL sacrifice on Calvary! This is made perfectly clear in Hebrews 10:10-12:"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, ...
Yes, once and for all. Each Mass is not a new sacrifice, its the same one. And its not the happening again, we are called back to calvary at every holy Eucharist. There are no new sacrifices, its the same one, thats what the Church teaches. And where do you think we got that from? The Apostles. We are an Apostolic Church, our Bishops have a direct and unbroken line of succession. If you are going to disagree, give me names of who you say that doctrine came from and when
@mjeffords85 ...which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God." The mass is unnecessary and unscriptural.
Why did the Apostles say Mass then and teach there disciples to? We have documented evidence of that by the truck load. The Mass isnt an invention of some random Pope few hundred years ago who was possesed by a demon as you would like to think, its been done since the 1st centruy on. We can prove that with historical documents
@kiwichristian2009 You are quite right. Many in this world miss the point. If eating a massed produced graven image is all that is needed then His one sacrifice for sins forever was for nothing.
@mjeffords85 The rcc says "Christ...commanded that his bloody sacrifice on the Cross should be daily renewed by an unbloody sacrifice of his body and blood in the Mass under the simple elements of bread and wine." (The Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 10, Pg. 13, Article: "Mass, Sacrifice of")....
Use the Catechism if you're gonna try to present a doctrine for rebuttal, not a thrid party website. Catholic Encyclopedia is ok, but its not our offical doctrine. Read what the catechism says about the Mass. Go ahead, I'll wait
@mjeffords85 Hello friend. Which came first, the Catechism or scripture? Now it should be easy for you to see which of the two is the measuring stick by which the other should be judged.
@kiwichristian2009 Hello friend. Again you speak the truth. Revelation 17....."And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, HAVING A GOLDEN CUP IN HER HAND full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication."
Thats not the way Paul and the 12 Apostles felt, or their unbroken line of successors for the last 2000 years of our Church History. Its been the same Eucharist since Our Blessed Lord instituted it in the Upper Room. Read St. Paul
Interesting opinion you have though.
If you say you're christian, is it wise to be blaspheming the Body and Blood of Christ, based on nothing more than heresay and misconceptions about the Holy Eucharist?
How much more clear can Jesus be here friend. Interesting you've taken the name John 3:16, thats a beautiful verse. But I take it you have never read John chapter 6. Jesus all but spells out the doctrine of the real presence, and the crowd that was listening to Him, knew exactly what He meant, thats why they got angry and left. Read John chapter 6 sometime. The Eucharistic discourse is also a beautiful passage
@mjeffords85 Hello friend. You just don't get it. You are completely missing the point of it all. I feel sorry for you. You should pray for some wisdom.
It is you who are missing the point. Catholic interpretation comes from the men who wrote the scripture, the apostles, handed down through an unbroken line of succession protected by the Holy Spirit. Your interpretation comes from your ministers own private understanding of the Bible.
Our Church is 2000 year old, how old is your's? We were there at the Upper Room when Christ instituted the Eucharist, we would know what He meant.
@mjeffords85 Hello friend. Nothing miraculous happens at any mass. Scientific tests prove that these mass produced graven images are the same before and after any transubstantiation 'miracle'. Roman Catholicism has provided a 'Christ substitute' because they deny the power of the real sacrifice on that cross 2000 years ago. Exodus 20....."Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above.....thou shalt not bow down thyself to them....."
Firstly, you dont know or understand the doctrine of transubstantion, and secondly, there have been hundred of documented, witnessed, eucharistic miracles, that scientists hve not been able to debunk.
If God didnt want images made, how do you explain the Ark of the Covenant and the great temple of Solomon? Have you ever read the Bible? Or do you just hear a select few verses that your minister reads on sundays?
@mjeffords85 Hello friend. The same sacrifice? Pray for wisdom and understanding. The 'Jesus' of Roman Catholicism is powerless to forgive sins on His own. The 'Jesus' mentioned in scriptures has infinite power to forgive sin the first time all by Himself.
Here's where you guys have it wrong, there is only Jesus, he was real, he walked the earth, he's not a concept. Theres no such thing as my jesus and your jesus, there's just Jesus. The Jesus mentiones in the scripture gave his apostles authority to preach, teach, and forgive sins, and he gave himself ti of in the eucharist. Its all right there in the New Testament. Try reading it sometime
@johnthreesixteen316 When someone dies, they go either to heaven or hell. Purgatory is not in the Bible. He (Jesus) is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
You're reading the wrong Bible. You're reading the one edited by Martin Luther, not the original canon. In the original canon, you'll find the book Maccabees, which talks about purgatory. Luther didn't like the doctrine of purgatory, so he got rid of the book from the Bible. Get a Catholic Bible and see for yourself.
@bdeaner I don't need the Roman Catholic Bible. All I need is the true Word of God. Luther didn't like the doctrine because it is a false doctrine. There is no such place or thing as purgatory. That is simply a concept that Catholicism made up. YOU are the one reading the wrong Bible. It's either heaven or hell, where someone goes when they die.
Your disagreement with the Catholic doctrine on Purgatory is based at least in part on a misunderstanding of the Church's Biblically valid teaching on this issue. You are correct, as Matt 25:31-46 indicates, there are only two ultimate destinies possible for all human beings, heaven or hell. Purgatory however is not an ultimate destination -- it is simply a part of the process for some souls destined for heaven -- a purification of the soul from sin in preparation for Heaven.
There are so many verses in scripture that contradict RCC theology Rom 4:5 utterly condemns the System of salvation by masses penance priests etc, bible teaches that salvation is gift of God not of works & this gift is freely given by God to those who trust in the merits of Christ's finished work on Calvary, the RCC SYSTEM is a demonic counterfeit to keep the lost RCs on the broad road to hell
You dont know what the RCC really teaches, thats your first problem. Read our offical doctrine, its doesnt say anything about salvation by works. Thats just a common misconception
@mjeffords85 How can you personally attain salvation, according to the rcc teaching? I asked this question at least 6 times to another catholic who refused to answer it. I honestly want to know.
@kiwichristian2009 Scripture teaches that one’s final salvation depends on the state of the soul at death. As Jesus himself tells us, "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31–46). One who dies in the state of friendship with God (the state of grace) will go to heaven. The one who dies in a state of enmity and rebellion against God (the state of mortal sin) will go to hell.
@mjeffords85 I know this guy very well, he's very deep into Protestant Propaganda, and not worth the fight. Don't respond to private messages from him, he'll bombard you with pages of Propaganda. He refuses to read any Early Church Fathers writings, like most Propaganda Ministers they can't take the truth.
If you go to my channel check out my video's on the First Christians, 6 in all. Also the story of Mary, and the Story of Peter. The info. will help you in Defending the Faith.
@kiwichristian2009 Salvation is 1) Faith in Christ, and good works. Faith working through love. If you have faith, but have not works, can your faith save you? So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself.(Jam. 2:14–17)
If faith alone saves us, why does 1 Corinthians 13:13 say that love is greater than faith? After all, if salvation is the greatest thing we can achieve, and it is by faith alone that we achieve salvation, then faith should be greater than love. No?
@kiwichristian2009 The RCC ignores the simplicity of salvation......2 Corinthians 11:3 "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ." There is nothing 'simple' about the RCC plan of salvation. No matter how hard a Roman Catholic tries, he/she never knows for sure if they will make it to Heaven.
the early church as described in the NT did the following: shared all things in common, relationships, support missionaries/ministers, teaching & preaching, praying, worshiping, reading of scripture, evangelism, fostering spiritual gifts. No where does the NT dictate fancy buildings, robes, repetitive prayer, a priesthood, Mary worship, sectarianism, or any order of service, etc.. all these are man made traditions added on.
The early church saw Peter and the apostles and the Bishops and priests they appointed as the sole teaching authority. They prayed for the dead. They believed in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. They particiapted in the sacrifice of the Mass every Sunday. Yes, lol, they wore robes, thats all they had smart guy. Prayers were said in unison, they confessed their sins to priests and so on... You're deluting yourself
I've read the Bible many times and this is the first time someone has told me what exactly the early disciples did. This is seen nowhere in the Bible, so where do you even come up with this stuff?
John 10:22 - the identification of the feast of the dedication is taken from 1 Macc. 4:59
John 10:36 – Jesus accepts the inspiration of Maccabees as He analogizes the Hanukkah consecration to His own consecration to the Father in 1 Macc. 4:36.
1 Tim. 6:15 - Paul's description of God as Sovereign and King of kings is from 2 Macc. 12:15; 13:4.
@mjeffords85 Neither their authors nor the circumstances of their writings are known.The Jews nor the early Christians accepted them as inspired scripture.The books themselves dont claim inspiration.There's no"Thus saith the Lord"'s .Although the N.T has 263 direct quotes from and 370 allusions to the O.T,there's not a single reference to the books of the apocrypha.It was at Trent,Ap.8th1546,that the pope declared tradition+the apocrypha to be canonical and authoritative.
@mjeffords85 Though these books were considered non-canonical, slowly over the years they came to be regarded by the Roman Catholic Church as part of the Bible, and were finally officially labeled as such. But the Historical Hebrew Religion, and the Historical Christian Religion growing from it, understood that these writings were non-canonical.
@mjeffords85 According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, St. Jerome was hesitant to include most of the apocryphal books in the canon, due to numerous errors. Even after he did concede to include them (in the fourth century), they were not decreed to be inspired scripture until April 8, 1546 at the Council of Trent. So for 1100 years, they were part of the canon, but not officially scripture. The reason for this is again, because of the numerous errors....
@mjeffords85 ......It appears they were ultimately accepted at Trent, because without doing so, the Catholic Church had no scripture upon which to base the doctrine of purgatory, invocation and intercession of the saints, the worship of angels, the redemption of souls after death, etc. In fact, if you'll look at the Catholic Encyclopedia, you'll find discussion of "problems" or "errors" with most of the apocryphal books.
@mjeffords85 Judith falsely states that Nebuchadnezzar reigns over the Assyrians,whereas he ruled Babylon instead.Torbit could not have witnessed the division of Israel into the northern and southern kingdoms in 931BC(Tor1:4),and have been deported 200 years later in 734BC(Tor1:10).Ecc3:3 states that giving money forgives sins. This contradicts Christs' work on the cross. Jesus and the apostles quote 260 times from the 35 out of 39 OT books, yet they NEVER quoted the apocrypha.
These verses are to show Jesus's quotation of the septuagint canon, which is the one catholics use, the one that still has the 7 books removed by Luther. You asked me how we knew Jesus preached from the Septuagint, Im giving you examples dude. You got what you asked for. I'll give you the purgatory verses after you acknowledge that you're wrong about the deutro-canonical books.
@mjeffords85 "sole teaching authority". Prove this from the Bible, please. "They prayed for the dead." Show me this in the NT, please. "hey particiapted in the sacrifice of the Mass every Sunday.", no, they OBSERVED THE LORDS SUPPER, show me where the apostles confessed to "priests', now show me who God says can forgive sins, priests, or God?
Just as Cain vainly tried to impress God with the works of his hands, so do Catholics try to impress God with their good works and ceremonialism. Catholicism is a damnable lie that has been in the world since Cain. God will smash the Catholic Whore with His judgments.
John 2:1-2 says, “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
@LizzyBC If the Bible is a Catholic book, why does it nowhere mention the Catholic Church? Why is there no mention of a pope, a cardinal, an archbishop, a parish priest, a nun, or a member of any other Catholic order? If the Bible is a Catholic book, why is auricular confession, indulgences, prayers to the saints, adoration of Mary, veneration of relics and images, and many other rites and ceremonies of the Catholic Church, left out of it?
@LizzyBC ...A council of men in 390 with no divine authority whatever, supposedly took upon itself the right to state which books were inspired, and Catholics argue, "We can accept the Bible only on the authority of the Catholic Church." Can we follow such reasoning?
Jesus clearly gave the Apostles His authority and the protection of the Holy Spirit, and the passed it on to their successors thru the laying on of hands that we call ordanation
@LizzyBC God did not give councils the authority to select His sacred books, nor does He expect men to receive His sacred books only because of councils or on the basis of councils. It takes no vote or sanction of a council to make the books of the Bible authoritative. Men were able to rightly discern which books were inspired before the existence of ecclesiastical councils and men can do so today....
Then why was there so much confusion and controvery? You Bible Based communities cant even agree with each other on interpretation of scripture, thats why there afre so many of you. I cant even imagine what the canon would look like if we let you guys pick it for yourselves, there probably be as many canons as there are protestant churches!!!
@LizzyBC It cannot be proven that the Catholic Church is solely responsible for the gathering and selection of the New Testament books. In fact, it can be shown that the New Testament books were gathered into one volume and were in circulation long before the Catholic Church claims to have taken its action in 390 at the council of Hippo.
But it wasnt decalred official, there were many controversies still. Pope Damasus had the final say on which books were to be considered inspired. And he's the reason you are able to say today in 2010 that the specific collection of books in the NT are divinely inspired. Becuase none of them claim to be inspired within their own text.
It the same canon you accept as inspired today. True or false?
Lets face it, you wouldnt know Paul's epistles and the other letters were inspired by the Holy Spirit, if not for the Catholic Church. Becasue they dont say within their own text that they are inspired and no other books in the Bible tell us that they are either.
Hi! Nice video... I was just exploring vids on Purgatory, because it's misunderstood in alot of other Christian beliefs.(I'm Agnostic, so I was only exploring different religions)May I ask where you found the photo @ 1:05iful, of the stairway to heaven? I find it absolutely beautiful, & I'm "Led Zepplin" fan,lol, & I'd like to print it out & put it into frame in my music room next to my Led Zepplin album cover collection....Thanks! ;)
Through infant baptism, keeping sacraments, church membership, going to mass, praying to Mary, and confession (just to mention a few), the Catholic church has developed a system of salvation through WORKS. God's word says that we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not through works". "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Eph. 2:8-9)
All those things were practiced by the Apostles and the early christians they instructed since before scripture was even written. The Church doesnt teach salvation by works, never has, never will. These things dont replace our faith, they are the measure of our faith, like St. James says in scripture.
The Hail Mary prayer dates back to the first century. It is and has always been the most commonly recited Christian prayer, next to the Our Father. And both come from scripture.
Read carefully please, I never said we were COMMANDED to ask for intercession from anyone, the Church doesnt teach that, never has, and never will. and I didnt say we were commanded to. The Apostles said it was good and holy for us to pray and intercede for each other, but not that we were commanded to ask for intercession. You threw the word COMMANDED in there yourself. Luther liked to add words to peoples writings also, but he added them to scripture, much worse
Purgatory is a man-made money-making thing invented by the unbiblical rcc.Heb1:3 "When He had by Himself PURGED OUR SINS.".Rom8:1 "There is therefor now NO CONDEMNATION to them that are in Christ Jesus.". Psalms49:7 "None of them can redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him.".Dont forget Prov10:12 which never mentions purgatory. Acts4:12"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
If you are going to continue saying it was invented, you need to say when and by who, otherwise you look like you dont know what you're talking about.
How often do you read your Bible? You keep throwing out all of this information, yet have no proof backing up anything you claim. I have given many references in my video and kiwichristian has given many more. Yet all you seem to argue is how wrong and off base we are.
I think only ignorance of mankind could lead one to believe that the complete truth of the WORD of God is found ONLY in the Bible. Jesus is the Word of God, not the Bible. The Bible is the inspired word of God, not the complete word of God. If you are only looking in the Bible for the complete truth and knowledge of God, then you are in for a very rude awakening in the after life. That's why he commissioned Peter and gave him the authority to continue the teachings he started.
I think only ignorance of mankind could lead one to believe that the complete truth of the WORD of God is found ONLY in the Bible. Jesus is the Word of God, not the Bible. The Bible is the inspired word of God, not the complete word of God. If you are only looking in the Bible for the complete truth and knowledge of God, then you are in for a very rude awakening in the after life. That's why he commissioned Peter and gave him the authority to continue the teachings he started.
In addition, I know JEwish people also believe in purgatory, so this is probably where the Catholics get that idea from. However, I wanted to know if anyone knew where in the Torah that is mentioned...the first five books of the old testament....
@kiwichristian, I think knowing scripture is useless if it persuades you to believe that there is a hell and that God would be so cuel. Capital punishment is too much for nasty humans like us but tolerable for God? (...and for eternity?)
Provide a single example of a doctrine that originates from an oral Apostolic Tradition that the Bible is silent about? Provide proof that this doctrinal tradition is apostolic in origin.
THE HOLY TRINITY, THE INCARNATION, THE APOSTOLIC AGE, etc...
Not all the apostles wrote scripture, but certainly they all preached. Are you saying only the ones who wrote some of their preaching down should be payed attention to?
If I told you a story today without writing it down how well do you think that story would be told about 2000 years later, to millions of people? Have you ever been in a group of people with the first people saying something and it gets passed to each person until it reaches the end? You know how different that single sentence ends up being? Add 2000 years and oral tradition would have no merit what so ever
HouseHaunter484, you said "satan HATES the RCC just like prots!!!! He wants to lay waste to Her, like the Prots !!! " Well, i wouldn't know about the "prots", but it would be nice to "lay waste" to all the rcc false teachings and unbiblical and anti-biblical doctrines. But it wont happen, because revelation describes her as the great whore. She has a job to do.
They have eyes to see but do not see. They have ears to hear but they do not hear. This is talking about people who do not receive learning with the spirit of humility. God loves purity of intention and will never allow anyone who is sincere to be in the dark very long. One the other hand, those who are led by their desires and seek a religion that suits their lifestyle and is in agreement with them are the ones who do not hear or see
The whore of babylon is not the RCC. in fact the bible states that "the whore of babylon" gets drunk off of the blood of the martyrs and saints. The martyrs and saints died for the truth of the RCC. So how can the whore be the RCC ? The "whore" is anyone who attacks the bride of christ ( his church ). Not the people but the truth that the church has taught since Jesus est it on earth.
I know all about it, what do you know? The authority of the Catholic Church rests with the Pope and the Bishops who are in union with him. If an individual Catholic, lay or clergy, defies and acts in oppostion to that authority, he/she no longer represents the Catholic Church. They become either sinners or heretics. And will not be restored to full communion unitl a sincere confession has been made and required penance has been done. Its been that way since the early church
@mjeffords85 "On August 24, 1527, Roman Catholics in France, by prearranged plan, under Jesuit influence, murdered 70,000 Protestants within the space of two months. The Pope rejoiced when he heard the news of the successful outcome."-Western Watchman, Nov.21, 1912 (Catholic)
Name them. One one of them even. Jesuit influence? What does that mean? And what were the circumstances? You're being vague and ignoring what I just told you, The authority of the Catholic Church rests with the Pope and the Bishops who are in union with him. If an individual Catholic, lay or clergy, defies and acts in oppostion to that authority, he/she no longer represents the Catholic Church. Rejocied does not mean he ordered it, and thats sounds questionable.
The rich man felt compassion and wanted to warn his family about the torture he was experiencing, that doesnt sound like heaven, and there is no compassion in Hell.
There is no compassion in Hell and no communicating with others outside of it. If you dont know that, then you dont understand the nature of Hell. The Rich man was in purgatory, the same state that Saint Paul describes in the Bible
@kiwichristian2009 -- your ignorance is sickening; the "dark ages" was the result of invading barbarian tribes from the north, and they hated civilization and were anarchist; the Vandals, Goths, and Gauls were responsible for the DA not the one true church you tool.
@HouseHaunter484 Your brainwashing is amazing. Ok, then. According to you, how many people did the catholic church kill in the crusades and inquisition ?
@kiwichristian2009 --why do you dullards get hung up on the inquisition and crusades? Look at all the good we have done: preserving christian truth, feeding the hungry, establishing scools and universities, contributing to the arts and sciences, establishing hospitals, endless charities and missions, working toward unity, orphanages, job training, evangelism, etc; we are doing the will of God.
@HouseHaunter484 No, lets talk about the torture, the murder, the bloodshed and the rape of women AND children that has been so prevalent and traditional in "gods true church". You really think your good works somehow make up for this?!
The first crusade was ordered as a call for help from the emperor of byzantium who was being overrun by an invading muslim hoard. Bodily self-defense of others is not murder.
Thats a fact my bible based brother. Urban II orderd the first crusade at the request on the emperor of Byzantium, had he not obliged, scores of our orthodox brothers would have perished and their probaly wouldnt be a Chruch in Turkey today. Do your homework before you talk about Catholic History with a Catholic
The Roman Emperor Constantine established himself as the head of the church around 313 A.D., which made this new "Christianity" the official religion of the Roman Empire. The first actual Pope in Rome was probably Leo I (440-461 A.D.), although some claim that Gregory I was the first (590-604 A.D.). This ungodly system eventually ushered in the darkest period of history known to man, properly known ...
Wed can name every Pope that has ever been in Rome and the dates they reigned. There have 265 beginning with St. Peter, and I can name all them. We can do that, becasue they kept written records, starting in the first century. How far back does your church go?
This is misleading and requires a bit more thought. While Maccabees is one source that clearly supports purgatory there exists the primary evidence where in several occasions Christ says to pray for the dead. If they were in heaven they wouldn't require prayers. Please pray for those who have passed way.
Where does Christ claim to pray for the dead? I can't seem to find anywhere he does.
Now let's just say Maccabees was an original text that was followed in Old Testament. You still can't argue that it applies to present day times. When Christ came he fulfilled the old Testament and created a new covenant with us. It comes down to Christ either paying the full punishment on the cross or not. Its not possible to believe he paid the full price while still believing in purgatory.
@Triple7inHeaven Amen! The rcc deny the Jesus Christ and God of the Bible. They deny what is written and the claims God made in His Word. Worse than that, they bastardised the Word Of God to suit their own pagan beliefs.
Jesus Christ, the 2nd person of the Blessed Trinity founded the Catholic Church personally. We are the only institution that can say that. We are the only Church that proclaims His message fully and without error
@mjeffords85 Rubbish. The Roman Catholic Church was not really in effect as an organization in the first couple hundred years of the Christian Church. The Christian church was under persecution and official church gatherings were risky business in the Roman Empire. Catholicism as an organization with a central figure located in Rome did not occur for quite some time, in spite of its claim they can trace the papacy back to Peter.
They had Mass in private sure, but it was Mass nonetheless. The same Mass we celebrate today. The Church moved from Jersualem to Rome when Peter was killed their by Nero, around 66AD or so. The vatican is built in the some spot he was crucified on.
@kiwichristian2009 For a few hundred yrs??? Ignatius of Antioch 110AD "....to the church also which holds the PRESIDENCY, in the location of the country of the ROMANS, worthy of God, worthy of honor, worthy of blessing, worthy of praise, worthy of success, worthy of sanctification, and, because you hold the PRESIDENCY in love, named after Christ and named after the Father" (Letter to the Romans 1:1 [A.D. 110]).
@kiwichristian2009 Irenaeus 189AD"by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the GREATEST and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at ROME by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, ..." (Against Heresies 3:3:2)
Christ fulfilling the law and the prophets doesnt mean what you think it does. You're looking at scripture with protestant glasses. Christ's finished act on the Cross redeemed the world. He never said the individual disciple wouldnt have to suffer to receive the gift of that redemption, which is our individual salvation. In fact, he said we WOULD have to suffer. And so did the New Testament authors. Purgatory is an extension of God's Mercy into the next life.
@mjeffords85 Rubbish. Listen, we are PURGED OF OUR SINS ( not some, ALL ) by the blood of Jesus Christ. Heb1:3,Rom8:1 and John5:24. Remember "there is no more condemnation when Jesus passed over our sins and paid the ultimate penalty for us." Why didnt the apostles ever discuss purgatory? 2Cor5:8There is no mention of pur. here. In Luke16:19-31, Jesus reveals there is a great gulf between hell and paradise that ...
They did. You're looking for the word "purgatory" and dont find it because its a latin word and the New Testament was written in greek. The word "Trinity" isnt in the Bible either, but you arent attacking that are you?
@mjeffords85 ...people cannot pass from one to the other. Catholics defend purg. by quoting the uninspired 2Mac12:40-46 where a "sin offering" is offered for dead soldiers who had committed the sin of idolatry. This not only contradicts the Bible, but also catholic teaching, because idolatry is a "mortal sin" that would confine a person to hell. An ex-nun said the only purgatory that exists is the priests' pockets.
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Some Biblical references suggesting a 3rd place exists which is neither Heaven nor Hell(Gehenna):
Gen50:10;Num20:29;Deut34:8;Zech9:11;2Macc12:43-46;Matt5:25-26;Matt12:32;Luke16:19-31;1Cor15:29-30;Philip2:10;2Tim1:16-18;Heb12:23;1Pet3:19,4:6;Rev21:27.
The place mentioned in those verses cannot be Hell because there is no mercy nor forgiveness nor concern for the living nor getting out of Hell. It can't be heaven because there is no suffering and no forgiveness/mercy needed in heaven.
AmericanBerean 1 week ago
The Sufferings that the thief was going through was his purgatory. Catholics believe that all of the crosses or sufferings in our life can rid of some of the time that we will have go through in purgatory and the more intense the suffering its possible to escape purgatory all together. The suffering offered up to our Lord can be use to purify us and make reparation for our pass sins
mat781111 9 months ago
TheDarkLordLucifer 11 months ago
@TheDarkLordLucifer
May our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ open your eyes to the wonders of His creation! Turn from your foolish ways says the Lord! Call on His name in times of trouble and times of joy, and he will save you!
Triple7inHeaven 11 months ago
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TheDarkLordLucifer 11 months ago
Purgatory & Catholicism are lies from the lips of Satan Himself. It's just another way Catholics try to earn Their way into Heaven, Which cannot be done. They want to say Hail Mary's and follow a bunch of rules that come down from a line of Tradition and think somehow it's going to get them a good seat in eternity.
There is only one way to God and it's through the shedding of innocent blood which broke the power of Sin allowing ANYONE who comes in the name of Christ Jesus access to Heaven.
MarcusMarcusMe 11 months ago
There is no purgatory and no one one can save anybody from sin after death. The soul returns to the hands of God and after judgment, only then you will know if you will go to heaven or hell.
I advise you scrutinize all the teachings of Roman Catholicism. It is not too late.
manalongmanunuba 1 year ago
stupid, all people will be judged on judgment day. praying for dead people won't help..salvation is an individual blessing..if you lived right, you will go to heaven..if you lived falsely, you'll go to hell..and no prayers by anybody can help you..also, there's no such thing as purgatory..read your bible
manalongmanunuba 1 year ago
@manalongmanunuba It is in the Bible
curiosity344 1 year ago
@manalongmanunuba Purgatory is in the Bible,you must have missed it.
Those who choose to not believe in purgatory will believe it when you get
there
curiosity344 1 year ago 2
@manalongmanunuba --A description of Purgatory IS in the Bible; Try 2 Macc. Also, we do not let Jews define the biblical cannon for us but the Church Jesus founded.
WayOfTheMaster454 1 year ago
Purgatory exist in the concept of Judaism before the death of Christ. before there wasn't any salvation or mediation with God but Christ died for our Sins. Purgatory doesn't exist anymore.Salvation exist now for humanity. somehow Tradition always try to dominate the true word of scripture.
megaman90 1 year ago
This is some just one of the thousands of different people from different churches or groups or ideas that try to attack the catholic church aiming for the common ignorant and poorly catechized catholic to break him of what little faith he has. so many protestant translations and different interpretations of whats written, they're very young at most a couple hundred years old and non-united, leaving lots of room for personal interpretation. This video is misleading.
Dantrack09 1 year ago
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Galatians 2.....16 "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
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Galatians 2.....16 "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
If purgatory and works based salvation were true then Satan and his angels could qualify for eternal salvation too. Salvation comes from accepting Christ's one time sacrifice on the cross, something Satan and his followers will never do.
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316
You have an uneducated understanding of the angelic host and even worse understanding of what happened at Calvary
mjeffords85 1 year ago
...This ungodly system eventually ushered in the darkest period of history known to man, properly known as the "Dark Ages" (500-1500 A.D.). Through popes, bishops, and priests, Satan ruled Europe, and Biblical Christianity became illegal. Throughout all of this, however, there remained individual groups of true Christians, such as the Waldensens and the Anabaptists who would not conform to the Roman system.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009 Amen to the Holy Spirit for patiently protecting the truth through the centuries.
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316
Yes, Amen to the Holy Spirit for protecting the magesterium from teaching error, St. Peter through Benedict XVI
mjeffords85 1 year ago
The Roman Emperor Constantine established himself as the head of the church around 313 A.D., which made this new "Christianity" the official religion of the Roman Empire. The first actual Pope in Rome was probably Leo I (440-461 A.D.), although some claim that Gregory I was the first (590-604 A.D.). ...
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
When the apostles wrote the New Testament documents they were inspired by the power of the Holy Spirit. There wasn't any real issue of whether or not they were authentic. Their writings did not need to be deemed worthy of inclusion in the Canon of Scripture by a later group of men in the so-called Roman Catholic Church. To make such a claim is, in effect, to usurp the natural power and authority of God himself.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
The Roman Catholic Church did not officially canonize the Apocrypha until the Council of Trent (1546 AD). This was in part because the Apocrypha contained material which supported certain Catholic doctrines, such as purgatory, praying for the dead, and the treasury of merit.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
Must Christ be continually sacrificed in the mass, or was His blood sacrifice on the cross 100% sufficient to pay for all our sins for ever? In John19:30 Jesus said, "IT IS FINISHED", which in the Greek is "Tetelestai" meaning "to make an END, to ACCOMPLISH, to COMPLETE something, not mearly to end it, but to bring it to perfection or its intended goal."
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
Its the same sacrifice re-presented, you need to understand what happens at the Mass before you decide youi disagree with it.
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@mjeffords85 Rome teaches that the Mass is a continual "sacrifice" of Jesus Christ, but God's word states that Jesus made the FINAL sacrifice on Calvary! This is made perfectly clear in Hebrews 10:10-12:"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, ...
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
Yes, once and for all. Each Mass is not a new sacrifice, its the same one. And its not the happening again, we are called back to calvary at every holy Eucharist. There are no new sacrifices, its the same one, thats what the Church teaches. And where do you think we got that from? The Apostles. We are an Apostolic Church, our Bishops have a direct and unbroken line of succession. If you are going to disagree, give me names of who you say that doctrine came from and when
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@mjeffords85 ...which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God." The mass is unnecessary and unscriptural.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
Why did the Apostles say Mass then and teach there disciples to? We have documented evidence of that by the truck load. The Mass isnt an invention of some random Pope few hundred years ago who was possesed by a demon as you would like to think, its been done since the 1st centruy on. We can prove that with historical documents
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009 You are quite right. Many in this world miss the point. If eating a massed produced graven image is all that is needed then His one sacrifice for sins forever was for nothing.
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316
Thats where guys get it all wrong, you dont understand what happened on the cross .
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316
Have you ever read what St. Paul said about the Eucharist?
Its sounding more and more like you havent read much scripture at all...
mjeffords85 1 year ago 2
@mjeffords85 The rcc says "Christ...commanded that his bloody sacrifice on the Cross should be daily renewed by an unbloody sacrifice of his body and blood in the Mass under the simple elements of bread and wine." (The Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. 10, Pg. 13, Article: "Mass, Sacrifice of")....
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
Use the Catechism if you're gonna try to present a doctrine for rebuttal, not a thrid party website. Catholic Encyclopedia is ok, but its not our offical doctrine. Read what the catechism says about the Mass. Go ahead, I'll wait
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@mjeffords85 Hello friend. Which came first, the Catechism or scripture? Now it should be easy for you to see which of the two is the measuring stick by which the other should be judged.
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316
You're kidding right!!
Sacred tradition came before sacred scripture. The Catholic Church produced the scripture.
There wasnt a NT until the end of the 4th century when pope damasus declared the canon official at the council of Rome
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009 Hello friend. Again you speak the truth. Revelation 17....."And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, HAVING A GOLDEN CUP IN HER HAND full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication."
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
@mjeffords85 Hello friend. The eucharist is nothing more than a graven image.
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316
@johnthreesixteen316
Thats not the way Paul and the 12 Apostles felt, or their unbroken line of successors for the last 2000 years of our Church History. Its been the same Eucharist since Our Blessed Lord instituted it in the Upper Room. Read St. Paul
Interesting opinion you have though.
If you say you're christian, is it wise to be blaspheming the Body and Blood of Christ, based on nothing more than heresay and misconceptions about the Holy Eucharist?
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@mjeffords85 Hello friend. Scripture makes it quite clear that Christ was speaking figuratively regarding His body and blood.
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316
"My flesh is real food, my blood is real drink"
How much more clear can Jesus be here friend. Interesting you've taken the name John 3:16, thats a beautiful verse. But I take it you have never read John chapter 6. Jesus all but spells out the doctrine of the real presence, and the crowd that was listening to Him, knew exactly what He meant, thats why they got angry and left. Read John chapter 6 sometime. The Eucharistic discourse is also a beautiful passage
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@mjeffords85 Hello friend. You just don't get it. You are completely missing the point of it all. I feel sorry for you. You should pray for some wisdom.
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316
It is you who are missing the point. Catholic interpretation comes from the men who wrote the scripture, the apostles, handed down through an unbroken line of succession protected by the Holy Spirit. Your interpretation comes from your ministers own private understanding of the Bible.
Our Church is 2000 year old, how old is your's? We were there at the Upper Room when Christ instituted the Eucharist, we would know what He meant.
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@mjeffords85 Hello friend. Nothing miraculous happens at any mass. Scientific tests prove that these mass produced graven images are the same before and after any transubstantiation 'miracle'. Roman Catholicism has provided a 'Christ substitute' because they deny the power of the real sacrifice on that cross 2000 years ago. Exodus 20....."Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above.....thou shalt not bow down thyself to them....."
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316
Firstly, you dont know or understand the doctrine of transubstantion, and secondly, there have been hundred of documented, witnessed, eucharistic miracles, that scientists hve not been able to debunk.
If God didnt want images made, how do you explain the Ark of the Covenant and the great temple of Solomon? Have you ever read the Bible? Or do you just hear a select few verses that your minister reads on sundays?
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@mjeffords85 Hello friend. The same sacrifice? Pray for wisdom and understanding. The 'Jesus' of Roman Catholicism is powerless to forgive sins on His own. The 'Jesus' mentioned in scriptures has infinite power to forgive sin the first time all by Himself.
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316
Yes, the same sacrifice, read the Bible sometime.
Here's where you guys have it wrong, there is only Jesus, he was real, he walked the earth, he's not a concept. Theres no such thing as my jesus and your jesus, there's just Jesus. The Jesus mentiones in the scripture gave his apostles authority to preach, teach, and forgive sins, and he gave himself ti of in the eucharist. Its all right there in the New Testament. Try reading it sometime
mjeffords85 1 year ago 4
@johnthreesixteen316 When someone dies, they go either to heaven or hell. Purgatory is not in the Bible. He (Jesus) is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
ILovestorms 1 year ago
@ILovestorms
You're reading the wrong Bible. You're reading the one edited by Martin Luther, not the original canon. In the original canon, you'll find the book Maccabees, which talks about purgatory. Luther didn't like the doctrine of purgatory, so he got rid of the book from the Bible. Get a Catholic Bible and see for yourself.
bdeaner 1 year ago
@bdeaner I don't need the Roman Catholic Bible. All I need is the true Word of God. Luther didn't like the doctrine because it is a false doctrine. There is no such place or thing as purgatory. That is simply a concept that Catholicism made up. YOU are the one reading the wrong Bible. It's either heaven or hell, where someone goes when they die.
ILovestorms 1 year ago
@ILovestorms
Your disagreement with the Catholic doctrine on Purgatory is based at least in part on a misunderstanding of the Church's Biblically valid teaching on this issue. You are correct, as Matt 25:31-46 indicates, there are only two ultimate destinies possible for all human beings, heaven or hell. Purgatory however is not an ultimate destination -- it is simply a part of the process for some souls destined for heaven -- a purification of the soul from sin in preparation for Heaven.
bdeaner 1 year ago
There are so many verses in scripture that contradict RCC theology Rom 4:5 utterly condemns the System of salvation by masses penance priests etc, bible teaches that salvation is gift of God not of works & this gift is freely given by God to those who trust in the merits of Christ's finished work on Calvary, the RCC SYSTEM is a demonic counterfeit to keep the lost RCs on the broad road to hell
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
You dont know what the RCC really teaches, thats your first problem. Read our offical doctrine, its doesnt say anything about salvation by works. Thats just a common misconception
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@mjeffords85 How can you personally attain salvation, according to the rcc teaching? I asked this question at least 6 times to another catholic who refused to answer it. I honestly want to know.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009 Scripture teaches that one’s final salvation depends on the state of the soul at death. As Jesus himself tells us, "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31–46). One who dies in the state of friendship with God (the state of grace) will go to heaven. The one who dies in a state of enmity and rebellion against God (the state of mortal sin) will go to hell.
hockeyrulesus 1 year ago
@hockeyrulesus
Thanks for helping me out, this guy is just not getting it!
God Bless
mjeffords85 1 year ago
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hockeyrulesus 1 year ago
@mjeffords85 I know this guy very well, he's very deep into Protestant Propaganda, and not worth the fight. Don't respond to private messages from him, he'll bombard you with pages of Propaganda. He refuses to read any Early Church Fathers writings, like most Propaganda Ministers they can't take the truth.
If you go to my channel check out my video's on the First Christians, 6 in all. Also the story of Mary, and the Story of Peter. The info. will help you in Defending the Faith.
God Bless!!
hockeyrulesus 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009 Salvation is 1) Faith in Christ, and good works. Faith working through love. If you have faith, but have not works, can your faith save you? So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself.(Jam. 2:14–17)
If faith alone saves us, why does 1 Corinthians 13:13 say that love is greater than faith? After all, if salvation is the greatest thing we can achieve, and it is by faith alone that we achieve salvation, then faith should be greater than love. No?
hockeyrulesus 1 year ago
@hockeyrulesus
Right On!!
I need all the help I can get, we're outnumbered on here
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009 The RCC ignores the simplicity of salvation......2 Corinthians 11:3 "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ." There is nothing 'simple' about the RCC plan of salvation. No matter how hard a Roman Catholic tries, he/she never knows for sure if they will make it to Heaven.
johnthreesixteen316 1 year ago
@johnthreesixteen316
You dont know what the Church teaches about salvation and it looks like you dont know what the bible teaches either. They are one in the same.
Prove me wrong if you can. Compare actual catholic teaching to scripture and point out where they contradict
mjeffords85 1 year ago 4
the early church as described in the NT did the following: shared all things in common, relationships, support missionaries/ministers, teaching & preaching, praying, worshiping, reading of scripture, evangelism, fostering spiritual gifts. No where does the NT dictate fancy buildings, robes, repetitive prayer, a priesthood, Mary worship, sectarianism, or any order of service, etc.. all these are man made traditions added on.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
The early church saw Peter and the apostles and the Bishops and priests they appointed as the sole teaching authority. They prayed for the dead. They believed in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. They particiapted in the sacrifice of the Mass every Sunday. Yes, lol, they wore robes, thats all they had smart guy. Prayers were said in unison, they confessed their sins to priests and so on... You're deluting yourself
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@mjeffords85
I've read the Bible many times and this is the first time someone has told me what exactly the early disciples did. This is seen nowhere in the Bible, so where do you even come up with this stuff?
Triple7inHeaven 1 year ago
@Triple7inHeaven
John 10:22 - the identification of the feast of the dedication is taken from 1 Macc. 4:59
John 10:36 – Jesus accepts the inspiration of Maccabees as He analogizes the Hanukkah consecration to His own consecration to the Father in 1 Macc. 4:36.
1 Tim. 6:15 - Paul's description of God as Sovereign and King of kings is from 2 Macc. 12:15; 13:4.
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@mjeffords85 Neither their authors nor the circumstances of their writings are known.The Jews nor the early Christians accepted them as inspired scripture.The books themselves dont claim inspiration.There's no"Thus saith the Lord"'s .Although the N.T has 263 direct quotes from and 370 allusions to the O.T,there's not a single reference to the books of the apocrypha.It was at Trent,Ap.8th1546,that the pope declared tradition+the apocrypha to be canonical and authoritative.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@mjeffords85 Though these books were considered non-canonical, slowly over the years they came to be regarded by the Roman Catholic Church as part of the Bible, and were finally officially labeled as such. But the Historical Hebrew Religion, and the Historical Christian Religion growing from it, understood that these writings were non-canonical.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@mjeffords85 According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, St. Jerome was hesitant to include most of the apocryphal books in the canon, due to numerous errors. Even after he did concede to include them (in the fourth century), they were not decreed to be inspired scripture until April 8, 1546 at the Council of Trent. So for 1100 years, they were part of the canon, but not officially scripture. The reason for this is again, because of the numerous errors....
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@mjeffords85 ......It appears they were ultimately accepted at Trent, because without doing so, the Catholic Church had no scripture upon which to base the doctrine of purgatory, invocation and intercession of the saints, the worship of angels, the redemption of souls after death, etc. In fact, if you'll look at the Catholic Encyclopedia, you'll find discussion of "problems" or "errors" with most of the apocryphal books.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@mjeffords85 Judith falsely states that Nebuchadnezzar reigns over the Assyrians,whereas he ruled Babylon instead.Torbit could not have witnessed the division of Israel into the northern and southern kingdoms in 931BC(Tor1:4),and have been deported 200 years later in 734BC(Tor1:10).Ecc3:3 states that giving money forgives sins. This contradicts Christs' work on the cross. Jesus and the apostles quote 260 times from the 35 out of 39 OT books, yet they NEVER quoted the apocrypha.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@Triple7inHeaven
1 Cor. 15:29 - if no expectation of resurrection, it would be foolish to be baptized on their behalf follows 2 Macc. 12:43-45.
Heb 11:35 - Paul teaches about the martyrdom of the mother and her sons described in 2 Macc. 7:1-42.
James 2:23 - it was reckoned to him as righteousness follows 1 Macc. 2:52 - it was reckoned to him as righteousness.
Rev. 11:19 - the vision of the ark of the covenant (Mary) in a cloud of glory was prophesied in 2 Macc. 2:7.
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@Triple7inHeaven
Rev. 19:11 - the description of the Lord on a white horse in the heavens follows 2 Macc. 3:25; 11:8.
Heb. 12:12 - the description "drooping hands" and "weak knees" comes from Sirach 25:23.
James 3:13 - James' instruction to perform works in meekness follows Sirach 3:17.
Rom. 1:20 - specifically, God's existence being evident in nature follows Wis. 13:1.
John 6:35-59 - Jesus' Eucharistic discourse is foreshadowed in Sirach 24:21.
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@Triple7inHeaven
John 5:18 - Jesus claiming that God is His Father follows Wisdom 2:16.
Luke 2:29 - Simeon's declaration that he is ready to die after seeing the Child Jesus follows Tobit 11:9.
Luke 13:29 - the Lord's description of men coming from east and west to rejoice in God follows Baruch 4:37.
Mark 9:48 - description of hell where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched references Judith 16:17.
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@Triple7inHeaven
Mark 4:5,16-17 - Jesus' description of seeds falling on rocky ground and having no root follows Sirach 40:15.
Matt. 24:16 - let those "flee to the mountains" is taken from 1 Macc. 2:28.
Matt. 16:18 - Jesus' reference to the "power of death" and "gates of Hades" references Wisdom 16:13.
Matt. 22:25; Mark 12:20; Luke 20:29 - Gospel writers refer to the canonicity of Tobit 3:8 and 7:11 regarding the seven brothers.
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@Triple7inHeaven
These verses are to show Jesus's quotation of the septuagint canon, which is the one catholics use, the one that still has the 7 books removed by Luther. You asked me how we knew Jesus preached from the Septuagint, Im giving you examples dude. You got what you asked for. I'll give you the purgatory verses after you acknowledge that you're wrong about the deutro-canonical books.
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@mjeffords85 "sole teaching authority". Prove this from the Bible, please. "They prayed for the dead." Show me this in the NT, please. "hey particiapted in the sacrifice of the Mass every Sunday.", no, they OBSERVED THE LORDS SUPPER, show me where the apostles confessed to "priests', now show me who God says can forgive sins, priests, or God?
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
Just as Cain vainly tried to impress God with the works of his hands, so do Catholics try to impress God with their good works and ceremonialism. Catholicism is a damnable lie that has been in the world since Cain. God will smash the Catholic Whore with His judgments.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
Read the book of James sometime friend
mjeffords85 1 year ago
John 2:1-2 says, “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@LizzyBC If the Bible is a Catholic book, why does it nowhere mention the Catholic Church? Why is there no mention of a pope, a cardinal, an archbishop, a parish priest, a nun, or a member of any other Catholic order? If the Bible is a Catholic book, why is auricular confession, indulgences, prayers to the saints, adoration of Mary, veneration of relics and images, and many other rites and ceremonies of the Catholic Church, left out of it?
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@LizzyBC ...A council of men in 390 with no divine authority whatever, supposedly took upon itself the right to state which books were inspired, and Catholics argue, "We can accept the Bible only on the authority of the Catholic Church." Can we follow such reasoning?
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
Jesus clearly gave the Apostles His authority and the protection of the Holy Spirit, and the passed it on to their successors thru the laying on of hands that we call ordanation
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@LizzyBC God did not give councils the authority to select His sacred books, nor does He expect men to receive His sacred books only because of councils or on the basis of councils. It takes no vote or sanction of a council to make the books of the Bible authoritative. Men were able to rightly discern which books were inspired before the existence of ecclesiastical councils and men can do so today....
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
Then why was there so much confusion and controvery? You Bible Based communities cant even agree with each other on interpretation of scripture, thats why there afre so many of you. I cant even imagine what the canon would look like if we let you guys pick it for yourselves, there probably be as many canons as there are protestant churches!!!
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@LizzyBC I implore you to read Exodus 20:4,5
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@LizzyBC It cannot be proven that the Catholic Church is solely responsible for the gathering and selection of the New Testament books. In fact, it can be shown that the New Testament books were gathered into one volume and were in circulation long before the Catholic Church claims to have taken its action in 390 at the council of Hippo.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
But it wasnt decalred official, there were many controversies still. Pope Damasus had the final say on which books were to be considered inspired. And he's the reason you are able to say today in 2010 that the specific collection of books in the NT are divinely inspired. Becuase none of them claim to be inspired within their own text.
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@mjeffords85 It was "official" to the people who owned them. Lets face it, the rcc only declared what IT considered the Bible, true or false?
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
It the same canon you accept as inspired today. True or false?
Lets face it, you wouldnt know Paul's epistles and the other letters were inspired by the Holy Spirit, if not for the Catholic Church. Becasue they dont say within their own text that they are inspired and no other books in the Bible tell us that they are either.
mjeffords85 1 year ago
Hi! Nice video... I was just exploring vids on Purgatory, because it's misunderstood in alot of other Christian beliefs.(I'm Agnostic, so I was only exploring different religions)May I ask where you found the photo @ 1:05iful, of the stairway to heaven? I find it absolutely beautiful, & I'm "Led Zepplin" fan,lol, & I'd like to print it out & put it into frame in my music room next to my Led Zepplin album cover collection....Thanks! ;)
AlexandriAxMansoN 1 year ago
@AlexandriAxMansoN
iasos.com/audioclp/
You can also go to google and type in "stairway to heaven" then click the images tab at the top... should be the first one that pops up.
Triple7inHeaven 1 year ago
Through infant baptism, keeping sacraments, church membership, going to mass, praying to Mary, and confession (just to mention a few), the Catholic church has developed a system of salvation through WORKS. God's word says that we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not through works". "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Eph. 2:8-9)
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
All those things were practiced by the Apostles and the early christians they instructed since before scripture was even written. The Church doesnt teach salvation by works, never has, never will. These things dont replace our faith, they are the measure of our faith, like St. James says in scripture.
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
The Hail Mary prayer dates back to the first century. It is and has always been the most commonly recited Christian prayer, next to the Our Father. And both come from scripture.
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@mjeffords85 Show me where we are commanded to pray to anyone OTHER than God please.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
Read carefully please, I never said we were COMMANDED to ask for intercession from anyone, the Church doesnt teach that, never has, and never will. and I didnt say we were commanded to. The Apostles said it was good and holy for us to pray and intercede for each other, but not that we were commanded to ask for intercession. You threw the word COMMANDED in there yourself. Luther liked to add words to peoples writings also, but he added them to scripture, much worse
mjeffords85 1 year ago
Purgatory is a man-made money-making thing invented by the unbiblical rcc.Heb1:3 "When He had by Himself PURGED OUR SINS.".Rom8:1 "There is therefor now NO CONDEMNATION to them that are in Christ Jesus.". Psalms49:7 "None of them can redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him.".Dont forget Prov10:12 which never mentions purgatory. Acts4:12"Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
If you are going to continue saying it was invented, you need to say when and by who, otherwise you look like you dont know what you're talking about.
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@mjeffords85
How often do you read your Bible? You keep throwing out all of this information, yet have no proof backing up anything you claim. I have given many references in my video and kiwichristian has given many more. Yet all you seem to argue is how wrong and off base we are.
Triple7inHeaven 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
If purgatory is man-made, then which man made it?
You're gonna have to give us names and dates, otherwise your just specualting and look like you dont really have a clue.
mjeffords85 1 year ago
I think only ignorance of mankind could lead one to believe that the complete truth of the WORD of God is found ONLY in the Bible. Jesus is the Word of God, not the Bible. The Bible is the inspired word of God, not the complete word of God. If you are only looking in the Bible for the complete truth and knowledge of God, then you are in for a very rude awakening in the after life. That's why he commissioned Peter and gave him the authority to continue the teachings he started.
muvilv 1 year ago
I think only ignorance of mankind could lead one to believe that the complete truth of the WORD of God is found ONLY in the Bible. Jesus is the Word of God, not the Bible. The Bible is the inspired word of God, not the complete word of God. If you are only looking in the Bible for the complete truth and knowledge of God, then you are in for a very rude awakening in the after life. That's why he commissioned Peter and gave him the authority to continue the teachings he started.
muvilv 1 year ago
@muvilv
AMEN!!!!!!!!
mjeffords85 1 year ago
In addition, I know JEwish people also believe in purgatory, so this is probably where the Catholics get that idea from. However, I wanted to know if anyone knew where in the Torah that is mentioned...the first five books of the old testament....
Thanks
IntelligentCreature 1 year ago
Wait, didnt Jesus go to Hades after he died for 3 days? Hello?
crackercookies 1 year ago
@kiwichristian, I think knowing scripture is useless if it persuades you to believe that there is a hell and that God would be so cuel. Capital punishment is too much for nasty humans like us but tolerable for God? (...and for eternity?)
think again!
no way!!!
the bible belongs to a primitive age!
enniopat 1 year ago
Provide a single example of a doctrine that originates from an oral Apostolic Tradition that the Bible is silent about? Provide proof that this doctrinal tradition is apostolic in origin.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
THE HOLY TRINITY, THE INCARNATION, THE APOSTOLIC AGE, etc...
Not all the apostles wrote scripture, but certainly they all preached. Are you saying only the ones who wrote some of their preaching down should be payed attention to?
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@mjeffords85
If I told you a story today without writing it down how well do you think that story would be told about 2000 years later, to millions of people? Have you ever been in a group of people with the first people saying something and it gets passed to each person until it reaches the end? You know how different that single sentence ends up being? Add 2000 years and oral tradition would have no merit what so ever
Triple7inHeaven 1 year ago
@Triple7inHeaven
Thats why Jesus gave them the protection of the Holy Spirit. And even that is seen in scripture
mjeffords85 1 year ago
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@Triple7inHeaven
Thats why Jesus gave them the protection of the Holy Spirit. And even that is seen in scripture
mjeffords85 1 year ago
HouseHaunter484, you said "satan HATES the RCC just like prots!!!! He wants to lay waste to Her, like the Prots !!! " Well, i wouldn't know about the "prots", but it would be nice to "lay waste" to all the rcc false teachings and unbiblical and anti-biblical doctrines. But it wont happen, because revelation describes her as the great whore. She has a job to do.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
a sense of fairness tells me that a would be God would never send anyone to hell.
Everyone can be re-habilitated, so I would imagine the hindus with re-incarnation are closer to the right path.
Now try to imagine someone just missing out on purgatory and going to hell?
like someone getting a 49.9999...% result, what infallible judgment required (and who are the judges - mere "saved" men/apostles?
imagine..! and no appeals? Fascism?
clearly the bible does not even teach "fairness or justice"!!
enniopat 1 year ago
@enniopat God does not send people to hell. We do it ourselves.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
They have eyes to see but do not see. They have ears to hear but they do not hear. This is talking about people who do not receive learning with the spirit of humility. God loves purity of intention and will never allow anyone who is sincere to be in the dark very long. One the other hand, those who are led by their desires and seek a religion that suits their lifestyle and is in agreement with them are the ones who do not hear or see
classicaldale 1 year ago
The whore of babylon is not the RCC. in fact the bible states that "the whore of babylon" gets drunk off of the blood of the martyrs and saints. The martyrs and saints died for the truth of the RCC. So how can the whore be the RCC ? The "whore" is anyone who attacks the bride of christ ( his church ). Not the people but the truth that the church has taught since Jesus est it on earth.
classicaldale 1 year ago
@classicaldale Yes, the RCC is drunk with the blood of those millions of innocent Christians it tortured and killed.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
NAME some of them!
I can name Catholic martyrs by the hundreds. How many people can you name that were killed on order of a pope?
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@mjeffords85 GO to your library and look up the inquisition.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
I know all about it, what do you know? The authority of the Catholic Church rests with the Pope and the Bishops who are in union with him. If an individual Catholic, lay or clergy, defies and acts in oppostion to that authority, he/she no longer represents the Catholic Church. They become either sinners or heretics. And will not be restored to full communion unitl a sincere confession has been made and required penance has been done. Its been that way since the early church
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@mjeffords85 "On August 24, 1527, Roman Catholics in France, by prearranged plan, under Jesuit influence, murdered 70,000 Protestants within the space of two months. The Pope rejoiced when he heard the news of the successful outcome."-Western Watchman, Nov.21, 1912 (Catholic)
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
Name them. One one of them even. Jesuit influence? What does that mean? And what were the circumstances? You're being vague and ignoring what I just told you, The authority of the Catholic Church rests with the Pope and the Bishops who are in union with him. If an individual Catholic, lay or clergy, defies and acts in oppostion to that authority, he/she no longer represents the Catholic Church. Rejocied does not mean he ordered it, and thats sounds questionable.
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@classicaldale
AMEN!!!
mjeffords85 1 year ago
RE: The rich man and Lazarus. Obviously both were sinful as God teaches that ALL have sinned, so, where was purgatory here?
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
The rich man felt compassion and wanted to warn his family about the torture he was experiencing, that doesnt sound like heaven, and there is no compassion in Hell.
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@mjeffords85 True. The rich man was in HELL, NOT purgatory. Nothing is ever mentioned here about purgatory. Even the APOSTLES never discussed it!
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
There is no compassion in Hell and no communicating with others outside of it. If you dont know that, then you dont understand the nature of Hell. The Rich man was in purgatory, the same state that Saint Paul describes in the Bible
mjeffords85 1 year ago
...as the "Dark Ages" (500-1500 A.D.). Through popes, bishops, and priests, Satan ruled Europe, and Biblical Christianity became illegal.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009 -- your ignorance is sickening; the "dark ages" was the result of invading barbarian tribes from the north, and they hated civilization and were anarchist; the Vandals, Goths, and Gauls were responsible for the DA not the one true church you tool.
HouseHaunter484 1 year ago
@HouseHaunter484 Your brainwashing is amazing. Ok, then. According to you, how many people did the catholic church kill in the crusades and inquisition ?
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009 --why do you dullards get hung up on the inquisition and crusades? Look at all the good we have done: preserving christian truth, feeding the hungry, establishing scools and universities, contributing to the arts and sciences, establishing hospitals, endless charities and missions, working toward unity, orphanages, job training, evangelism, etc; we are doing the will of God.
HouseHaunter484 1 year ago
@HouseHaunter484 No, lets talk about the torture, the murder, the bloodshed and the rape of women AND children that has been so prevalent and traditional in "gods true church". You really think your good works somehow make up for this?!
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
Give examples. Name names, places and dates, otherwise you look like you dont know that you're talking about.
We can give you names, places and dates of Catholic martyrdoms by the huindreds.
How bout some names to back up your claims
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
The first crusade was ordered as a call for help from the emperor of byzantium who was being overrun by an invading muslim hoard. Bodily self-defense of others is not murder.
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@mjeffords85 LOL
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
Thats a fact my bible based brother. Urban II orderd the first crusade at the request on the emperor of Byzantium, had he not obliged, scores of our orthodox brothers would have perished and their probaly wouldnt be a Chruch in Turkey today. Do your homework before you talk about Catholic History with a Catholic
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@HouseHaunter484
Right ON!
This guy is almost not worth talking to anymore
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@HouseHaunter484
Keep it coming, this guy is dense!
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
Prove IT
mjeffords85 1 year ago
The Roman Emperor Constantine established himself as the head of the church around 313 A.D., which made this new "Christianity" the official religion of the Roman Empire. The first actual Pope in Rome was probably Leo I (440-461 A.D.), although some claim that Gregory I was the first (590-604 A.D.). This ungodly system eventually ushered in the darkest period of history known to man, properly known ...
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
The edict of Milan did no such thing.
Wed can name every Pope that has ever been in Rome and the dates they reigned. There have 265 beginning with St. Peter, and I can name all them. We can do that, becasue they kept written records, starting in the first century. How far back does your church go?
mjeffords85 1 year ago
This is misleading and requires a bit more thought. While Maccabees is one source that clearly supports purgatory there exists the primary evidence where in several occasions Christ says to pray for the dead. If they were in heaven they wouldn't require prayers. Please pray for those who have passed way.
Freedom8201 1 year ago
@Freedom8201
Where does Christ claim to pray for the dead? I can't seem to find anywhere he does.
Now let's just say Maccabees was an original text that was followed in Old Testament. You still can't argue that it applies to present day times. When Christ came he fulfilled the old Testament and created a new covenant with us. It comes down to Christ either paying the full punishment on the cross or not. Its not possible to believe he paid the full price while still believing in purgatory.
Triple7inHeaven 1 year ago 5
@Triple7inHeaven Amen! The rcc deny the Jesus Christ and God of the Bible. They deny what is written and the claims God made in His Word. Worse than that, they bastardised the Word Of God to suit their own pagan beliefs.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
Jesus Christ, the 2nd person of the Blessed Trinity founded the Catholic Church personally. We are the only institution that can say that. We are the only Church that proclaims His message fully and without error
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@mjeffords85 Rubbish. The Roman Catholic Church was not really in effect as an organization in the first couple hundred years of the Christian Church. The Christian church was under persecution and official church gatherings were risky business in the Roman Empire. Catholicism as an organization with a central figure located in Rome did not occur for quite some time, in spite of its claim they can trace the papacy back to Peter.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
They had Mass in private sure, but it was Mass nonetheless. The same Mass we celebrate today. The Church moved from Jersualem to Rome when Peter was killed their by Nero, around 66AD or so. The vatican is built in the some spot he was crucified on.
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@mjeffords85 My friend. Read the description of the Lords Supper. Are you seriously telling me the modern catholic mass is the same? Come on!
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009 For a few hundred yrs??? Ignatius of Antioch 110AD "....to the church also which holds the PRESIDENCY, in the location of the country of the ROMANS, worthy of God, worthy of honor, worthy of blessing, worthy of praise, worthy of success, worthy of sanctification, and, because you hold the PRESIDENCY in love, named after Christ and named after the Father" (Letter to the Romans 1:1 [A.D. 110]).
hockeyrulesus 1 year ago
@hockeyrulesus
AMEN!!!
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009 Irenaeus 189AD"by pointing out here the successions of the bishops of the GREATEST and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at ROME by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, ..." (Against Heresies 3:3:2)
hockeyrulesus 1 year ago
@Triple7inHeaven
Christ fulfilling the law and the prophets doesnt mean what you think it does. You're looking at scripture with protestant glasses. Christ's finished act on the Cross redeemed the world. He never said the individual disciple wouldnt have to suffer to receive the gift of that redemption, which is our individual salvation. In fact, he said we WOULD have to suffer. And so did the New Testament authors. Purgatory is an extension of God's Mercy into the next life.
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@mjeffords85 Rubbish. Listen, we are PURGED OF OUR SINS ( not some, ALL ) by the blood of Jesus Christ. Heb1:3,Rom8:1 and John5:24. Remember "there is no more condemnation when Jesus passed over our sins and paid the ultimate penalty for us." Why didnt the apostles ever discuss purgatory? 2Cor5:8There is no mention of pur. here. In Luke16:19-31, Jesus reveals there is a great gulf between hell and paradise that ...
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
They did. You're looking for the word "purgatory" and dont find it because its a latin word and the New Testament was written in greek. The word "Trinity" isnt in the Bible either, but you arent attacking that are you?
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@mjeffords85 ...people cannot pass from one to the other. Catholics defend purg. by quoting the uninspired 2Mac12:40-46 where a "sin offering" is offered for dead soldiers who had committed the sin of idolatry. This not only contradicts the Bible, but also catholic teaching, because idolatry is a "mortal sin" that would confine a person to hell. An ex-nun said the only purgatory that exists is the priests' pockets.
kiwichristian2009 1 year ago
@kiwichristian2009
Jesus preached from Maccabees, if it was good enough for Him, why not you? You'd rather listen to Luther than Jesus?
Maccabbes is not the only reference to post-mortal cleansing, there are many
mjeffords85 1 year ago
@mjeffords85
There is actually not one verse quoted from Macabees by Jesus. So how do you know he used Macabees? Did you get this info from the Catholic Church?
Triple7inHeaven 1 year ago
@Triple7inHeaven
Read the above. Jesus preached from Maccabees several times as well as the apostles
mjeffords85 1 year ago