Rev. Gene Robinson Interview

[kustacma10]

Interested in knowing what true Christianity teaches on same gender marriage and Homosexuality? check out our video on "same gender marriage" by typing into youtube and searching for "Modern Challenges of Faith" titled +++ Same Gender Marriage - An Orthodox Prespective - Modern Challenges of Faith +++

[mrbreez33]

I curious where In the Bible is the Lord God Almighty referred to as the God of many Understandings ?....

[Hrumpff]

When someone says "________are lower than dogs" I am offended, not just as a Christian but as an animal lover. I'm serious.

[karlosmoffit]

Either homosexuality/lesbianism is part of the Fall or it was part of God's original perfect creation!

The very same can be said of other deviant sexual affections such as bestiality, pedophilia, bondage, group sex etc... If any man or women should be tempted of these they must resist.

It is my opinion that God made the seed of a man to locate the egg of a woman and bring forth perfect life not to die in human excrement.

As a heterosexual I still have many affections I am called to resist.

[ouTandAbOut231]

to say I dont know my bible when I have been to bible coledge and my father is an ordained minister who refuses to let me live in his house since I am gay is just silly.

My point is if you are going to view the bible as anything more than a good story then you are in for trouble. You will tell others they are wrong and you are right because of the bible.

think of all that we agree on (not much) how much less would a wican,budist,islamic, and so on agree with you. anyway I'm tired gnight

[ouTandAbOut231]

This is what happens when you have absolute faith in the bible in one area and others are historical or poetic. Could you put an * next to the ones that god really meant as truth and a @ for the ones that are historical maybe a $ sign for the poetic.

Its so silly to believe some of it and not all of it.. there is no moral wrong committed when a women reads the bible to the congregation anymore than if a man read it. It is simply what the bible says and so you believe it simple lack of thought

[ouTandAbOut231]

Its interesting that you bring up adam and eve when you said you dont believe in adam and eve.

As for rape (which is harmful) that has nothing to do with women preaching. Not allowing women to preach in church you say is not harmful but tell that to the women who feels that that is exactly what god is calling her to do.

women have been held back by the church for centuries because of out dated belief. Why? why is the bible so damn important in some areas and not in others.

[ouTandAbOut231]

Sigh I said david and johnathan not david and soloman.

as for god not allowing poligamy thats crazy he said that david was a man after his own heart who loved and feared god.

the story of David and Johnathan as written in the bible not the ten second version is a beautiful love story of two male lovers

[DeiVerbum777]

Care to document that, bud? Scriptural citations would be pretty cool ;)

[ouTandAbOut231]

absolutely

1 Sam 18:1 1 Sam 20:16 2 Sam 1:23-27

1 Sam 20:41 People who doubt this story of love should simply change the names of david to Sarah and read the story again.

it reads exactly as a love story of two intimate lovers lost in there affection for each other.

the early church even had a word for this love Homoeroticism

[ouTandAbOut231]

women are just as capable of preaching from a book as men are. this is what happens when you dont question the bible becaue you believe it is gods holy book and so it cant be wrong (except I guess in the way of evolution and the big bang) WT??

this is why you have to think fro yourself. If a women wants to preach let her. hte only reason paul said this was becasue at the time he wrote it women were inferior to men. because eve sinned its crap

[ouTandAbOut231]

If you really think women should be silent in church then I guess were done on that theological point. i cant change your mind and dont plan to try.

this is why I say believing the bible literally is dangerous and so wrong to so many people.

The hindu religion has an entire transvestite community because of there religion that spans thousands of years. to tell them there wrong is so evil.

it hurts nothing and no one if a woman preaches in church or cuts her hair or anything. its so wrong

[ouTandAbOut231]

I didn't think you would mind either. It has been a nice debate thus far though

[BeingInTheMessiah]

most people get married based on how much the other person satisfies the fulfilment of their ego. The ones that dont, and have likely found their soulmate are those family's with lots of children (they are actually happy).

Gay men are gay because other men arouse and highten their pursuit for satisfaction. Its a self satisfying pursuit, and as worthless as any other. (you cant even reproduce).

[BurntTreeProduct]

@BeingInTheMessiah No, they're not gay because they're in search for self satisfaction. They are most likely gay because of the genetic structure that they had no choice over. Now what they do have choice over is their actions, not their pre-appointed attributes.

[BeingInTheMessiah]

So in other words BTP, men they find attractive give them boners right? Isnt that what I was basically already saying?

If your intent is to achieve the best orgasims (lets be nice and say, to feel "fulfiled" with a relationship), is that in agreement with what nature has shown to be the core value of life?

masterbation using someone elses body isnt done to achieve a greater purpose, its done to more greatly achieve the same purpose. being driven by egoism then, it is not endorsed by God.

[BurntTreeProduct]

@BeingInTheMessiah That is a disgusting analogy, and is not the point I was attempting to get across at all. I refuse to discuss anything further with you if you are to EVER use disgusting imagery such as that again.

[ouTandAbOut231]

A biblical marriage is between many woman and one man. Polygamy is the view of a biblical marriage.

to say that one man and one woman is the only marrage is like telling me that david didnt have multiple wives or soloman or so many diffrent peaple in the bible it would take me hours.

If saying its not a biblical marrage all you have?

If two people committed to each other love each other is is anything more than love?

Whas david and johnathans love wrong too? have you read that story?

[ouTandAbOut231]

So what is the difference between two gays marrying and having sex and two straight people getting married and having sex?

[ouTandAbOut231]

So anyone who has homosexual feelings is fine? even though the bible says that anyone who even looks at someone to lust after them is committing sin in there heart? or is that poetic

[ouTandAbOut231]

the bible does say that homosexuals are going to spend eternity in hell not once but several times.

Yes. I Corinthains 6:9-10 are clear that these kind of people will not inherit the kingdom of God.

It just could not be clearer that no homosexual gets to enjoy heaven and if you cant be in heaven I guess hell is the only alternative

[ouTandAbOut231]

So God saying he made the earth is not literal but god saying that homosexuals should burn for eternity is?

Is hell literal?

In your mind who gets to decide what is litteral and should be observed and what isn't?

If tommorow it is discovered that there is a gene or sequence that makes peaple gay or lesbian whatever are you going to say that the bible is only being poetic?

[BurntTreeProduct]

@ouTandAbOut231 This is a spicy debate, keep going! Anyways, ou, I wanted to address your question considering it was just a bit of a side not a provocative question. Yes, the image drawn of Hell in the Bible is not literally a place of fire and darkness. It is a place of separation from God and a place of regret... a place of suffering, not "torture." I may be eaten by Anglican, but I doubt he will disagree with this point. I didn't mean to interrupt... sorry.

[BurntTreeProduct]

@BurntTreeProduct "...side not *and* a pro-..."

[BurntTreeProduct]

@BurntTreeProduct

gosh dangit... "side NOTE AND a pro-" I am too tired to be trying to pursuade someone right now. Sorry, haha

[ouTandAbOut231]

feel free to jump in its jsut more debate and can only lead to more questions and answers.

i have no idea if hell is a literal place. If it is I would think it was meant only for the truly wicked and not for an eternity but rather a moment of time. this is all based solely on how I feel god should be as I don't take the bible literally. I don't dwell on the afterlife because there is nothing i can do about it. If god wants me in hell then I'm screwed lol

[BurntTreeProduct]

@ouTandAbOut231 Pardon me, but that is a very unwise position on theology... and not only a trivial theological issue, but rather something that can be a detriment to non-believers. It is something to be known thoroughly, and not taken lightly. Just because you want something to be true based on your own assertions of what God should be that makes them no more true than me saying you are straight because I want you to be. God is not a diary, he is not a mini-pocket, customizable god... sorry..

[ouTandAbOut231]

My views on god in a nut shell would be not to take the bible litterallt. So what do I base my christian belief on?

first I look at the character of Jesus which to me is one of love and forgiveness.

2nd I look at science and common sense when dealing with a 2,000 year old belief.

3rd I try not to get caught up on theology unless its in a debate but rather feed the poor and care for widows. a basic love god love your neighbor due unto others approach.

other than that theology is up for grabs

[BurntTreeProduct]

I honestly don't see how you support this claim... it's not based on scripture, just emotion and common sense. Now, you say that you look at science when dealing with a 2,000 year old belief. What does science have to do with taking a literal interpretation of the stories described in the canonical gospels and Epistles of Paul? A Christian can have a literal understanding of the Bible and maintain a strong connection to science... *Cont..."

[BurntTreeProduct]

Cont.

For example, I wholeheartedly defense macro evolution via natural selection and still hold the Bible as Truth. Of course I take (such as with Apologist72) the Genesis account to be metaphorical. I also accept big bang cosmology, and I do not spit on brilliant scientists like Hawking who make scientific theories that don't immediately add up... if the evidence supports a claim, then I would assume that Bible is compatible with that. I actually debated my bible teacher today on evolution

[ouTandAbOut231]

I am going through your vids one by one very nice info.

I also hold to a scientific view on evolution and the origin of the universe. I am puzzled then why you hold that the bible needs to be taken literally if some of it obviously is not.

[BurntTreeProduct]

Sorry, I tried posting a comment an hour or so ago, but it didn't work... but I just pointed out that it's absurd that you think the canonical gospels were created in committees, where in reality they were each written independent of each other (exemptions for gospels/epistles written by the same author, but that's obvious that they were not written independent of each other). There is much evidence showing the books presented as the NT is written in 1st-early second century. Where's yours?

[ouTandAbOut231]

First I suppose we can look at how the cannon was formed. It was not in comities but rather through an evolution of centuries.

Paul is not what I am refering to when talking about science but why not lets discuss pauls views . Paul made it quite clear that it was wrong for a women to speak in church and she should cover her head. he also said it was shameful for a man to cover his head and that men should not have long hair. Using common sense I ignore these as silly

[ouTandAbOut231]

I dont want to assume anything from what you jsut said.

do you believe in a 6 day creation, woman taken from a rib and noahs flood as the bible says it happened?

Just one verse of many

Job 38:13

13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)

the bible also says some interesting things about the sun

"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible,Ecclesiastes 1:5)

Interesting if its literal

[ouTandAbOut231]

So its ok if the government stones me for being gay?

before we go into a literal meaning of the bible again what do you mean by literal.

the argument of the bible saying being homosexual can go on for ever im not dismissing it out of hand I jsut first want to know if you think the earth is flat and that god really did have noah build a boat and put two of ever kind of animal on it.

because before I get into the littoral words of the bible and our English dictionary meanings of homosexual

[ouTandAbOut231]

Well feel free to stone me to death then for being gay. Unless you dont believe in the morality of scripture for that since it is in the old testiment only.

Do you believe in the entire inspired word of god or just parts.

this is one verse of 30,000 in the bible and many can be argued as morally wrong.

Jesus said to tear your servant to pieces if he does not do as he is told (the parable of the talent) Is that moral.

Is moral only moral because god said so?

can god kill whoever he wants?

[ouTandAbOut231]

then we are clear that the bible says children are not as important (equal to parents and don't have the same rights as parents)

Interesting that jesus said unless you have the faith of a child then you can not even see the kingdom of heaven yet later he clearly tells parents to kill there children (put them to death) if they break there oaths of love. some love.

you don't kill someone just because they wont love you.

Then again god does that all the time in the bible. Its still wrong

[ouTandAbOut231]

Very well lets look at the equality of parents and children.

Does the bible say that parents should be killed for making there children break the oath?

Is there a verse that says to kill your parents if they break oath with you?

[ouTandAbOut231]

I have to say yes because the bible says to honor your father and mother regardless of how you are treated. (unconditional love) the same way Christ loved us by dieing for his disobedient children and forming an unending bond of love) I can make the bible sound like anything I want to and back it up with scripture just like you can.

the point I make in my videos is not to take it so literally and use common sense when reading it.

IT IS WRONG TO KILL CHILDREN FOR BREAKING AN OATH common sense

[ouTandAbOut231]

If that comment and verse is not solid proof that the bible can mean whatever you want it too I dont know what is.

Parents should not provoke there children but if they do and the child rebels you should kill the child??

god sure has an interesting way of working out problems if you take the bible literally

[ouTandAbOut231]

If the bible said that anywhere at all new or old testiment then you would have a valid point. It is not even implied.

No where does it say that if the parent is doing good to the child that the child should be respecting and honoring.

I have heard that argument before and it is such a nice way of haveing those verses make sence. Unfortanatly for a litteral view of the bible it does not say anywhere to only not curse your parents when there doing the right thing to you.

[ouTandAbOut231]

Well I am very glad that you don't make the rules for any government..

However I will give you the benifit of the doubt that you just dont know what you are saying and try agian.

there are many parents in this world that do not deserve repect and should be totally rejected by there children. (incest),murder or attempted murder,trying to sell the child into slavery,

these things happen every day but according to what you just said and the litteral bible the child should still honor them??

[ouTandAbOut231]

According to what you just said it was ok for jesus to tell the leaderrs that it was ok to kill children?

Just as long as it was an oath they broke and not a cursing. What?? So if a child in jesus time breaks an oath to there parents they should be killed for it??

Is this what you believe? should you be killed for breaking faith with your parents?

[ouTandAbOut231]

Now this is fasinating I have finnaly found someone who can actually debate and do it well.

jesus in the NT told his followers that any child who curses his parents should be put to the death. Mathew 15: 1-9

[ouTandAbOut231]

I take the bible with a grain of salt. Meaning I would have a hard time following all the LAWS. such as the ones that say to stone your children if they curse you?? Thats in the old and new testiment

[ouTandAbOut231]

Hmm that is a good point fornication and being gay were closely tied together because we legally could not be married. However i believe god looks at the heart and knows that if we could we would.

Personally being gay to me is not about having sex all the time its just about finding that one person I will love for all of time like any other human being.

That is why when I read the bible I try and think about the over aching message of love and acceptance in God. I am a blessed Christian gay man

[ouTandAbOut231]

I take offence to that I am an anglican gay man who found love and acceptance in the church for the first time in years.

[brandytefft]

The real problem with Christians in this country is they are so ego-driven and close-minded. Christ loved everyone - EVERYONE! And the very people that want to condemn gay and lesbian people are shameful and actually end up condemning the very nature and love that Christ represented and wanted people to exhibit towards others. I think AnglicanApologist72 needs to go back and re-read the gospels!!

[JAZZKID7]

Look erkeler I don really disagree with anything you just said. I have not judged anyone I'm not a judge.I dont believe gays require specail rights for what they choose to do with their sex organs.They should not be ridiculed ,bashed or discriminated against . After that I dont think they need any new laws for them. just like I dont for my Blackness. If you think the Bible is right you have to think its all right and not cherry pick. Also keep it in context please ...thank you for sharing

[JAZZKID7]

LOOK.. Sex is very important , who you do it with is important ,how you do it is important. When you do it is important . It could determine what happens to you in this life.think about it. As a Police officer I see it all the time.When girls runaway from home most of the time they are having time sex which leads to babies and then proverty.The gays think they are a whole or kind of entity just because they enjoy what they do and they and want us to accept it. Woe to those who call Evil good.

[erkekler]

sex is important...homosexual people exist throughout the society and are a significant minority...it has always been this way and it always will be...there is no monolithic organization of "the gays".....all that the gay population asks for is to be treated with the same respect that everyone else seeks, along with equal rights....judge not lest you be judged....

[goodstreaker33]

That is one complicated conversation, so ill put an end to it: Gays are awesome!!!

[PZG4SS]

Jesus Christ said "I've come not to abolish the law but to fulfil it" (Matt. 5:17). So, the Levitical law of YAHWEH still is in effect and He tells us that the penalty is DEATH by stoning! Now, the blood of Christ was shed to forgive the sins so we don't have to shed blood anymore..but the LAW is still in effect. You can't say "I'm a Christian!" and live like a heathen. We will be punished according to our transgressions even if we are His chosen people.

[ouTandAbOut231]

your going to honestly take that one verse and claim then entire old testiment including the 400+laws are invalid??

[karlosmoffit]

The Holy Spirit is ALWAYS in agreement with the Word.

Romans 1:26-27:

...for even their women did change the natural use into that which is AGAINST NATURE: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is UNSEEMLY...

God will allow us to do what we like to see our hearts but we all will stand at the judgment to give account.

I'm straight but don't you know I have to stand against my desires? STAND!

[ouTandAbOut231]

yeah the bible is not full of contradiction.

you know like when mathew mark luke and john cant seem to remember when jesus ascended

Some claim it was on the day he rose from the dead others claim 8 days after and some claim 40 days after.

If the bible was inspired by god you would think he could at least get his facts straight

[tsbomb]

You can tell why this idiot got the job, no wonder the church is in such a mess. Can anybody say JESUIT placeman - Jesus didn't say anything about being God or the son of God either did he? How does this clown explain Paul's words at 1 Corinthians 6:9, 10, ""What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God's kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, ... nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men ... will inherit God's kingdom."

[armours]

In Gene Robinson's own words, the Church of England only "obsesses" about sex and homosexuality because it chooses to sit on the fence and be "all things to all men" rather than take a Biblical standpoint. He says that his diocese has "got over it". Well, so have the true Christian Churches, who state God's word on the matter, that homosexuality, (like adultery and fornication) is sex outside marriage and therefore a sin, and have moved on, rather than going round in circles.

[TheCurseOfAtheism]

Gene is not a Vicar, he is a demonic infiltrator; a wolf in sheep's clothing, seeking to surreptitiously discredit the faith:

2 Peter 2:1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2And many shall follow their pernicious ways, by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evilly spoken of.

[Emu76]

The only way he could be "discrediting the faith" is if ignorant people like you cared so much that he was gay. We are all equal in God's eyes.

[jme1976]

Emu76

Indeed we are equal, however, some have repented and turned from their sin. Only a dog returns to its vomit. These men neither know God nor want to Him. As I've said before, they want heaven just not with God.

[ouTandAbOut231]

indeed were all equal however....

thee is no dot dot dot your either equal and deserve the same rights or you don't.

you try and get around this by claiming only some people have been forgiven lol

obviously you don't believe everyone is equal then

[BaubleRob]

What's this, 24? The Bourne Ultimatum? Sort the zoom out and then leave it! You're filming a vicar, not Matt Damon!

[grauk44]

I stand by my comments and I do not have to justify myself to you or anyone else.

[jme1976]

You will one day grauk44

[jme1976]

Our God is a holy God and will one day judge the world in righteousness, by His holy law, the 10 commandments. Can anyone stand up to it...NO! thats why Christ came to pay the price of Gods wrath on Himself such is the love of God on mankind.

BUT we must REPENT and turn away from our sins. The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin.

These guy's want to get to heaven they just don't want God to be there.

[jme1976]

1 Corinthians 6:9

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites.

[grauk44]

I think this guy is an articulate a brave person who is not afraid to stand up to simplistic bigotries. I also think that labelling him as a pervert says more about the person who says it than him.

[robhaidheuch]

Pervert!

[TurnerDiaries]

3.

To restate such things in the religiously minded society in which Yah'shua lived and preached,would be like reinventing the wheel; no point!

We only need to see his view on appropriate

relationships to see how he viewed pure sexual

conduct: :'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH " -Matthew

19...

Gene, you're going to Hell.

[jme1976]

Well said TurnerDiaries!!

[armours]

I'll second that!

[TurnerDiaries]

2.

Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a

male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death." (Continued...)

[petercourt]

That's the Old Testament. Jesus changed the old testament, a lot.

[jme1976]

petercourt

Oh no He didn't!

Jesus is the living Word of God, made flesh.

God is holy their is no way a practising homosexual can stand innocent before God when judged by His holy law. We will ALL be judged by His holy law one day.

Jesus said repent and turn from your sin. Homosexuality is a sin. End of

[petercourt]

I recommend you read Matthew 5. There is a huge list of what Jesus changed in the New Testament.

No one is innocent, we've all committed sin and all require forgiveness, whether a homosexual or a liar. If we were innocent, we wouldn't have needed Christ to die for us. I'm still researching into homosexuality as a sin. Apparently you are 'born' homosexual, so why would God make people that are bound to be homosexual if they are sinners?

[jme1976]

Sounds like your trying to make excuses. This is a human condition called 'self' righteousness.

Not trying to sound condescending.

We try to put our twist on it when God is absolute.

[petercourt]

He clearly is not absolute. You have ignored my post about Matthew 5, Jesus changed the Old Testament. If you get the impression of me trying to be self righteous, I am sorry. Maybe this will help "Critically examine everything. Hold on to the good" 1 Thessalonians 5:21". I'm also not seeing a response to the latter part of my last post? Anyway, if you are happy with your view, that is fine, I hope you can see my view, too.

[KytesofKaos]

You are the reason why millions of people are turning away from religion. I am not religious and attitudes like yours make me even less so. This vicar (or perhaps bisop) is saying that all people should be accepted, which I believe was Jesus' message. Isn't religion supposed to be about acceptance?

[jme1976]

"Isn't religion supposed to be about acceptance?"

Not on man's terms on Gods/scripture. Remember sin is SO serious God had to become human to take OUR sin on Himself. We are guilty but he stood in our place.

I'm not religious either, I have a faith. Jesus came to bring salvation not religion. Religion is ritual, or works like Catholics believe can get you to heaven. When Jesus says repent and sin no more.

[petercourt]

Absolutely, and I wish it was that clear. I think God will reconcile everyone and it should be our aim to accept everyone. Unfortunately some verses make this difficult, but it is my aim to try and put forward this view of acceptance, as I think God would want it.

[jme1976]

God will reconcile everyone??? not sure which bible your reading my friend? Jesus spoke more on hell than heaven because its easier to get there. Enter through the 'narrow way' He tells us.

[petercourt]

If you think that God will look at the good and bad things you did in your life, and make the decision based on the good outweighing the bad, then you will guarantee that heaven won't be your final resting place. The one and only way to reach God is through faith in Jesus Christ. By believing that Jesus was born, was the living embodiment of God, that he died on the cross to free you from the burden of your sins, you will achieve eternal life. - hisfaithful website

[jme1976]

Did you mention repentance.

Your first sentence is laughable, you are preaching to the converted my friend.

[petercourt]

It was a quote from a website, I know you are already Christian, I was making a point that we only need to put our faith in Christ. And he will accept people that do that. Why is the first sentence laughable? Also "And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only,

but also for those of the WHOLE WORLD." 1 John 2:2

[jme1976]

You need to understand the context peter.

Jesus said 'Go into the whole world and preach the gospel' He didn't say that the 'whole' world would be saved. Heaven is holy, and it isn't open for everyone. Murderers, fornicators and liars etc will NOT be allowed in. Their names are written in the Lambs book of life

Show me scripturally where you get this thought that everyone will be saved?

[petercourt]

Please show me how mine is out of context...

Who are you to say who will be let in or not? That is up to God to decide.

John 6:51 "This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of THE WORLD"

John 12:47 "For I did not come to judge THE WORLD, but to save it."

1 Tim. 4:10 "...who is the Saviour of ALL MEN, especially of

believers.

1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only,

but also for those of the WHOLE WORLD.

[jme1976]

Do you seriously think the whole world will be saved?

His salvation is available to the WHOLE world as you say but only a few will accept. Otherwise whats the point in the message. You may as well carry on regardless. Everyone wants to get to heaven, they just don't want God to be there. The devil wants to get to heaven, does that mean he'll get there...no of course not. His judgement is already mapped out in Revelation and God does not change his mind.

[petercourt]

Does John 6:51 just say 'is available'? No. It says he WILL give for the life of the whole world. There is no 'I'll do it, but you have to accept it' he has done it, Jesus HAS given his life for the whole world.

[jme1976]

Thats what I've been saying all along!!

It sounded to me like you were saying 'everyone' will get to heaven....is that what you mean.

[PZG4SS]

All of the children of YAHWEH will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven by heritage...others can enter by Grace. That includes true Israelites who do not believe in Christ--they'll just have to undergo a "cleansing" period as punishment ("lake of fire" is mistranslated...it's more like "fire and brimstone", a cleansing, in the original ancient Hebrew). Even Satan will be brought back into Divine Order because he was created as an archangel and will be returned as such after his long, long torment.

[jme1976]

PZG4SS

Absolute heretical nonsense that cannot be backed up by scripture. Repent my friend and believe on the Lord Jesus.

[PZG4SS]

Get yourself a KJV and a Strong's Concordance or better yet, a more exact translation (I use Ferrar Fenton's version) and read the Bible as it was originally written. Read the WHOLE thing, paying close attention to the Old Testament...it's just as valid today as it was then and just as much "Christian" as the New Testament!

[PZG4SS]

For instance, the original Hebrew "sheol" was translated into "Hell" but it really means grave or pit. Does Rev. 20:13 make sense, then..."and death and hell delivered up the dead that was in them"? If people are already in Hell, why would they be raised out of it to stand before judgement? The second death is death FROM sin...the first death is death TO sin.

[jme1976]

There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth after the judgement throne of God, Jesus says its a place where the worm will not die and the fire not quenched.

However, He came that we might not go there. IF we repent and believe on the Lord Jesus and on Him alone for our salvation. Not our works!

[PZG4SS]

Back to Rev. 20:13..."each of them was judged according to his doings (FF)". We have to abide by the laws of God found in Leviticus; if we don't, we're judged accordingly and punished.

Can a person believe in the Christ and then live wickedly? No! Robinson no more pleases YAHWEH than does someone eating ham for Easter in direct violation of His law!  (Isaiah 66:17) He, and a lot of others, have fallen into apostacy, but that's the plan of the Great Deceiver--the false Church.

[PZG4SS]

Israel endured "seven times punishment" (2520 years) because they turned from the Law...and were subjected to Assyrian captivity beginning in 745BC. But YAHWEH STILL honors His covenant to them...and once again made Israel great after that time period passed. Unfortunately, they once again turned from the law and now have to endure the cursings of Deuteronomy 28. The lost sheep of the house of Israel just will never learn, will they? :-)

[jme1976]

Sorry, but Gods law is the 10 commandments by keeping these you are holy, which of course we can't. The law is a good school master, Psalm 19

'The law is perfect converting the soul' it brings people to the cross if used the right way. Each commandment covers a family of other sins we are warned against.

The ceremonial and civic laws were intended to operate until Christ came. The 10 commandments stand above them as the abiding moral law of God.

[PZG4SS]

Titus 1:14

Who told you that? Did you read it in the Bible? Or did an apostate church tell you that? Read how many times in Leviticus we are told that these statutes shall be "for ever"! So many people think the Old Testament is "old news", that God just said "I made a mistake", wiped it all out and started over again with Jesus Christ. This is part of the great deception...the apostate church.

Y'all think Satan's deception is going to be easy to figure out! :-)

John 8:43-45

[jme1976]

The secondary laws that you talk of were designed for the following purposes:

- to educate the minds of people to understand vital concepts such as the holiness of God and the need for mediation and sacrifice.

- to provide a temporary system of worship until Christ came.

- to be visual aids pointing forward to the work of Messiah.

[PZG4SS]

Then why did Jesus say He came not to abolish the law, but to FULFILL it? He and the apostles remind us all the time to follow the law!! And it's not just the Ten Commandments, either. If that was the case, this whole comment thread would be irrelevant, because homosexuality would no longer be a sin, since the Ten Commandments make no mention of it!

[jme1976]

"this whole comment thread would be irrelevant, because homosexuality would no longer be a sin, since the Ten Commandments make no mention of it!"

I think you'll find the 7th 'Thou shall not commit adultery' is the one you are after.

It covers a ban on ALL improper sexual activity.

"But fornication, and all uncleanness....let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints" Eph 5.3

[PZG4SS]

Well, "adultery" was translated from "na'aph", the Hebrew for "commit adultery", so the modern usage would be up in the air, although many claim that it does indeed refer to sexual impropriety as the tenth commandment already deals with "coveting thy neighbor's wife" since "chamad" can mean "lust for" in Hebrew.

But my point remains...where in the Bible does YAHWEH render Levitical law invalid upon the coming of the Messiah? I've already cited scripture where Christ says just the opposite.

[jme1976]

Does not Christ make mention of a new covenant....the old laws are not for us this is grace period.

Are you seriously saying that if a mouse jumps into a pot it is unclean till evening applies today, I would hope that you don't. Law ties people down, we are no longer under law but grace. It was God showing how we should approach Him, as a holy God.

[PZG4SS]

Then why obey ANY of the laws? Christ came to be the blood sacrifice, the Lamb, to atone for our sins, fulfilling the penalty phase of the law, just like He said in Matthew 5:17...and read the next few verses. Not one dot or hairstroke shall disappear from the law until the heavens and earth pass away. So how do we know WHICH laws, then, are to be kept and which are not, since all of the original Ten Commandments were later given in Levitical Law.

Lose only the silly ones?

[PZG4SS]

I'd also like to know where the Bible makes any mention of the Rapture and a man called the "Anti-Christ".

But at least we can agree that homosexuality is a sin, whether or not it's in Levitical law or the Ten Commandments and whether we believe one or the other is still applicable!

[jme1976]

The 10 commandments were the ONLY laws written by the actual finger of God (Jesus).

What do you think He wrote in the sand to the Pharisees who wanted to stone the adulteress.

Jesus is the Word made flesh, all the attributes of God in a man. Fully man fully God. When as you say the apostles tell us to obey the law they are referring to the 10 commandments. Obviously we have repented first and trusted in Christ alone for our salvation. His law should be on the tablet of our hearts.

[jvick332007]

but if you live in a life of sin(like being gay) you will be casted into the lake of fire but its not for me to judge only Jesus

[petercourt]

I suppose that's the only way we'll find out. We will have to see what Jesus says, not what Paul says.

[ouTandAbOut231]

End of it huh.

I suppose we all need to follow all the laws then? even the weird ones like not being able to plant two types of seed in the same field?? or weir linen due to the fact that its made of two types of cloth, or offer sacrifices like rams bulls and turtle doves to the temple. Need I go on

[TurnerDiaries]

1. Rabbi Yah'shua Ben Yosef [The one called Jesus of Nazareth] didn't feel the need to directly address the issue of Homosexuality as being evil, the issue didn't arise because it was taken as a given by Yah'shua, his Talmidim[disciples], the Netzarim [his followers] and all who heard; they were already aware of it's sinful nature from scripture such as: Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." (Continued...)

[nigel1960]

Christians challenged the cruely and inhumane slave trade of the 19thC. However, in Jesus day slaves were treated differently:"In general, slaves fared as well as free labourers. They ate well, were clothed as well, and were sometimes better housed."(Encylopedia of Bible words-Zondervan) Whilst slavery removes freedom, it wasn't the harsh reality of the 19C. I am not surprised Jesus didn't express any outrage.

[nigel1960]

The O.T. is specific about sexuality and in the 1stC issues of morality were being debated such as divorce which Jesus gives an opinion. Homosexual practice is clearly forbidden and and so we must assume that as Jesus doesn't challenge the general Jewish understanding, then by silence he upholds it. He says,"I have not come to abolish the law...until h and e disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen by any means disappear from the Law." Gene clearly wants this to happen!

[nigel1960]

What he is right about is any so-called 'attacks' on the gay community. As Christians we are called to love God, love our neighbours and even love our enemies, and I certainly don't consider the gay community to be enemies. In fact the Bible doesn't say or condemn people about their sexual orientation. However, it has to be sex within marriage or celibacy for both homosexual and hetrosexual people.

In all my time as Christian minister, I have never heard any verbal attack on the gay people.

[nigel1960]

Jesus made no comment about homosexualty, because there was no need to. Jesus believed the O.T. and like Jews of the 1st century the practice was considered sinful and forbidden. Only Roman and Greek cultures allowed it. Jesus discussed divorce because it was an issue at the time, no mention was made of homosexuality, because every Jew and later Christian believed it's practice to be outside God's will. To suggest we are now discovering this 'new' truth is not honest to the Biblical witness.

[demonliberal]

Jesus also never condemns slavery, because he - like Jews and Gentiles of his age - assumes that it's okay. Indeed, the Church tolerated and defended slavery until the 19th century on the grounds that the Bible appears to sanction it. When 19th century Christians like Wilberforce condemned slavery, they departed from the strict letter of the Bible but they did not therefore become less Christian. Rather, they began to read their Bibles more carefully. The same is true of homophobia today.

[jme1976]

demonliberal

You are talking utter nonsense.

[armours]

You should read Paul's letter to Philemon. Paul and Wilberforce were alike in many ways. Paul condemned cruelty to slaves. By the early 1800's, the treatment of slaves had become an abomination and Wilberforce spoke out against this in the same way that Paul did. Likewise, attitudes to homosexuality have changed; Some now thinks it is acceptable. True Christians are only saying that God has NEVER accepted homosexuality & still offers forgiveness for repentant sinners, including homosexuals.

[jme1976]

I'll third that!

[lightandairy]

Amen

[lightandairy]

Amen

[pushintindc10]

Which God is he serving, pleas read Romans Chapter 1 Verses 18-26

[aspenaz]

Really!!!

That means you don't count Paul's letters as the Word of God?

All you trying to do is to make the Word of God fit your own agenda. You may deceive politically correct crowd or please people by saying what they want to hear. But you see, God is God and you're just a bunch selfrighteous clowns

[kamodo147]

Paul tried very hard to live the life which he believed was based upon Jesus' teachings, but even he admits his own humanness and his own fallibility. Paul actually preached against all sex. He urged even heterosexuals against sex if you read his works. But for some reason, people ignore this fact.

[1685JSB1750]

It's amazing how a man can be so critical of the Church in such a reasonable way, yet still believe the rest of its ridiculous doctrines. The homophobia and bigotry of other Anglican church leaders shows the corrosive effect of religious belief on otherwise intelligent minds.