Predestination, Free Will & Security ~ Pastor Doug Batchelor _ part 1

[hemet92544]

A Question Calvinist won't answer, if you asked a black man in the USA, say from 1700 to 1950, do you believe in election? how many would say yes? that would be zero.....get it yet?

[mamainmancj]

All have sinned and greatly offended the holy God of the bible. The just punishment is death then hell. That's not Gods will. He suffered and died on the cross paying for the law you broke in His life's blood so He could legally dismiss your case. You must repent turn from your sin and trust alone in Jesus Christ for your salvation.

[maisonet1966]

Did anyone forget that this religion says that we Christians are not of god because we worship on Sunday

[wavid117]

To say that not God, but we are the one's who "choose" our salvation means God is not sovereign, not omniscient, not omnipotent, and not God.

[spaceking66]

my idea is to have prayer marches wher we all march in the streets and pray  that all humans will all turn away from all sin and turn to god and the christian faith

[lessingtom]

Calvin murdered one man (Servetus) and several others. Hitler murdered 6 000 000. Will you, pastor Doug Batchelor, praise Hitler the way you did Calvin? The only difference is that Calvin got away with it because he was supposedly such a great man of God. "A giant in the Christian Reformation?" You must be kidding!

[ronathanedwards]

Talk about a simple humanistic philosophical sermon. A mile wide and an inch thick.

[rkg62976]

The "summa ordo salutis" (summary of the order of salvation), given in Rom.8:29-30--

1) Foreknown;

2) Predestined;

3) Called;

4) Justified;

5) Glorified.

The question is, "where does repentance and faith fall in the 'ordo salutis'?"

In the logical chronology, repentance and faith must come between being "called", and "justified", since no one can come to faith in Christ without being effectually called, and regenerated first (Jn.6:44,65), and since a person is justified through faith...Simple

[ronathanedwards]

@rkg62976 Specifically 1 John 5:1 in "being regenerated first".

[apollos6640]

@rkg62976 Reformed theology Sounds very promising-- until you remove the Veil and realize that it was GOD who created You for either Heaven or Hell "BEFORE having done ANYTHING either good or bad in order that Gods Purpose of Election might continue", making ONE saved by ELECTION, NOT by FAITH as the Scriptures have been proclaiming. "For God has consigned ALL to disobedience, that he MAY have mercy on ALL." I reject Reformed Theology, nor am I a disciple of Calvin or Augustine.

[apollos6640]

Acts 4:4 "But many of those had HEARD the Word BELIEVED", it doesn't say, "and many Believers,Heard the Word"

Acts 13:48 "And when the Gentiles HEARD the WORD, they began REJOICING and GLORIFYING the WORD of the LORD and as many were APPOINTED to Eternal Life, Believed" . Faith comes by Hearing, and hearing through the Word of Christ. In both verses, they Heard the Word first.

[rkg62976]

@apollos6640 Yes, indeed! The primary means by which God uses to call the elect unto Himself is the preaching of the gospel. This is why we who are Reformed emphasize that predestination does not nullify the command to preach the gospel to every creature.

"For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son...whom He predestined, these He also called [by the preaching of the gospel]..." (Rom.8:29,30).

[rkg62976]

I have a tremendous amount of respect for Doug Batchelor; but he is not infallible, just as Calvin was not infallible.

1) Calvin did not come up with the 5-points. The 5-points were a defense against the 5 Articles of Remonstrance given by the followers of Arminius in response to Reformed teaching.

2) Calvin was instrumental in systematizing the doctrines of grace, but they did not originate with him; it sprang from the controversy between Augustine and Pelagius in the 4th-5th century.

[rkg62976]

1) John Calvin died in 1564.

2) Jacobus Arminius died in 1609.

3) The 5 Articles of Remostrance (of "Arminianism") was produced in 1610 (or shortly thereafter).

4) The Synod of "Dordrecht" ("Dort") was convened and met between 1618-1619.

Out of the Synod of Dort came what is commonly known as T.U.L.I.P. (the "five points" of Calvinism).

*In the original order it was U.L.T.I.P.

[CBALLEN]

Acts 13:48 ... and as many as were APPOINTED to ETERNAL LIFE believed,Not as many as believed were appointed to eternal life. This is just one more verse twisted by false teachers like Doug.They don't like the real God of the Bible and have made other gods to worship.The God of the Bible is the only 1 true God and to make people believe in another god will bring the real judgment of a real Hell.

[CBALLEN]

God knew the lost and saved before time,so if God wanted to save all ,then why did God allow the births of those who would not go to Heaven?Since God knew the lost before time,then He's also not trying to save all, 2 Peter 3:9 does not mean He's being patient waiting for goats to come to Jesus,He's not nuts.Jesus came specifically to save HIS PEOPLE,these are those who belong to the Father and He gives them to the SON.Jn 6:37 All the Father gives to me will come to me & I will not cast any out.

[CBALLEN]

@CBALLEN Many people miss what JN6:44 is saying,No one can come to the me unless the Father who sent me draws him and I will raise him up on the last day.No one is able to believe in JESUS unless the Father over comes all their resistance BY REGENERATION and all He does this for are saved by Jesus and raised unto glorification.Salvation does not depend on the will(choice ) of man but of the super natural regeneration of God alone,this is where the modern church is in error.

[KiwiChristian]

2343 views for part one, 1735 for part two and 1205 for part three.

How can you understand what is being taught if you dont receive the full picture?

[KiwiChristian]

Did i watch this video with my own free-will?

[Dwrancho144]

I had anxiety attacks because I saw no reason to live if Hell was true. If an eternal hell was so real then it would mean most of my family and good chunk of my friends was on their way there, and it was my job to preach and pray for them to save them 24/7. The responsibility was overwhelming and the thought of this being true was terrifying. I was in a deep depression, and went through literal hell, inside of my mind.

[janelr66]

I agree 100% with Pastor Doug Batchelor's views on predestination, free will and security. I think he is right that God gives all of his children an equal chance at salvation, but that many people reject/ignore his grace. I also agree that people have the choice to fall away from God, even though He promises them salvation when they choose him.

[rkg62976]

@janelr66 "I think he [Pastor Doug] is right that God gives all of his children an equal chance at salvation..."

Are you asserting the universal Fatherhood of God?

Is every single human being considered to be a child of the Most High?

Or, are the saints only considered children of the Father my means of adoption (Rom.8:15; Gal.4:5; Eph.1:5)?

Are there not children of the wicked one (Mt.13:38; Jn.8:44)?

And were we not all Satan's children before regeneration by the Holy Spirit?

[micahalb]

I think this guy actually misrepresents the role of the human will in a Calvinist position. A Calvinist DOES believe that we must exercise our will and our affections toward God, but the reason WHY we exercise our will and affection toward God is because of His grace towards us in Christ. If Christ had not died for us, we would not choose God. This opens up a whole other set of questions (ie. If Christ died for the the whole world's salvation, why do some go to hell)? Hence, systematic theology.

[chosenb4birth]

What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God is there? May it never be!

For He says to Moses, " I WILL HAVE MERCY UPON WHOM I WILL HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION" So then, it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. Romans 9:14-16

The Sriptures are the final authority, not the false teachers who twist the truth to fit their own idea of who God is.

[Xearf]

The doctrine of irresistble grace is a beautiful idea, and it makes sense. I feel it at work even within myself - I cannot bring myself to turn from God, no matter how much I doubt, fear, or dislike him. But the only problem with it is the fact that not all will be saved. The bible even says that not all will be saved. So if God has the power to bring all his creations to him, why isn't everyone saved? Could be that God doesn't use his omnipotence to woo creatures who would rather reject him

[Xearf]

@Xearf After all, God knew us even in the womb. He knew our hearts and desires before we were even born. Though, Calvanists believe that we are incapable of wanting to know God without his intervention... so I dunno. Like I said, though. If predestination has a rational basis behind it, and it's not just God making random choices, then I can accept it. Otherwise, God and his goodness exists on such a higher scale that they remain completely unknowable and illogical to every person created.

[Xearf]

It's clear in scripture that God has the sovereign right to choose who he will have mercy on for his own good pleasure. However, I just can't stomach that God would make an arbitrary choice between equally depraved men. If the predestination doctrine is correct, then I have to believe that God's basis for election wasn't arbitrary; but that there was a fair reason behind it. Otherwise, I'm lead to assume that divine goodness is impossible to know, understand, or conceptually releate to

[blueshadowes]

Great video. Good on you Pastor Doug. Makes it very clear :-)

[Entropy56]

The picture on the wall of Jesus is irreverent.

[neyo196]

@Dwrancho144 He knows all things,but it doesnt mean that he made it happen people made their choices