Designing the vertical farm - economist.com/video

[paseggiato]

vertical farms or gardens were in Middle East thousands of years ago =)

[ainsmosni]

i am starting work on a prototype for a vertical farm in order to prove yield and efficiency here in oklahoma. i could use an architects input if you're interested.

[juki0h]

high tech farming is one of the many things im interested in, will have to major in like 5 majors, have too many interests

[NextStarfish]

Interesting - I've used this video to illustrate a short blog post about Vertical Farms on Nextstarfish

[A1R5N1P3R]

The fact that the price for electricity is artificially inflated will mean only large corporations or government agencies will be able to make a vertical farm work. So what are they planning? To stack vertical farms and undermine the prices of traditional farms? Or make traditional farms illegal? just as they have rezoned Dairy Farming in New Jersey in the late 1990's, forcing many out of business.

[BigJosh226]

@A1R5N1P3R "just as they have rezoned Dairy Farming..." Who's they? The government? Some of the largest and most influential organizations that lobby in the government that make rezoning possible are the large "traditional" soil-based agro-corporations. Almost all of the food you and everyone else eats come from large corporate farms in the Midwest or Southern California (Which has completely destroyed the ecosystem there).

[BigJosh226]

@A1R5N1P3R Vert farming would be "undermining" a system that already does not have our best interests in mind. I would do some research yourself before posting such a rudimentary and erroneous response.

[A1R5N1P3R]

@BigJosh226 So, agriculture as we know it, thousands of years old, doesn't have our best interests at heart? You fucking fool. What are you, some spineless vegetarian who thinks it's time to redefine our way of life just because you read some books and attended a college for a few years?

What you build, you must maintain. Oldschool farming impacts on the environment least of all. Understand why we evolved, look at what works, before you think you know better.

[BigJosh226]

@A1R5N1P3R You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The 10,000 years of "agriculture as we know it" pales in comparison to the 200,000 years homo sapiens have inhabited the planet. It is a human phenomena like the wheel or the internal combustion engine. What are you? Some kind of uneducated douche that watches youtube videos all day and thinks he knows more than a college graduate?

[BigJosh226]

@A1R5N1P3R What you build must sustain. Old school farming is one of the most detrimental things to happen to the environment ever. Ever heard of slash and burn technique? Thousands of years old and has been ruining land for just as long. Understand how we evolved and how we can keep evolving to help ourselves and our environment.

[A1R5N1P3R]

@BigJosh226 lol... Do you think every farmer employs slash and burn? have you even researched traditional farming before jumping on this bandwagon? Pathetic.

[BigJosh226]

@A1R5N1P3R Slash and burn was an example of "traditional" farming technique. Most industrial farms today don't use slash and burn. They do, however, use massive irrigation systems that create runoff that devastates ecosystems. And yes, I've actually participated in and thoroughly studied traditional agriculture.

[BigJosh226]

@A1R5N1P3R Stop trolling man, it's so obvious at this point.

[A1R5N1P3R]

@BigJosh226 Obvious that you know nothing of terraced farming or sustainable farming which grows crops in cycles and manages the land usage so as to balance the chemicals required for the next crop. This isn't trolling.

Do you know how much water and electricity cost in NYC? Building such a structure in and of itself would mean not seeing profit for a decade or more. Who could shoulder such debt except for the biggest corporations?

Sit down, shut up.

[BigJosh226]

@A1R5N1P3R Terraced farming would be great if it could actually supply our excessively large population with all the sustenance necessary, but it can't. Your pipe dream of all these large corporate agri-businesses actually using sustainable methods with proper soil management is ridiculous. All farming grows crops in cycles btw.

[BigJosh226]

@A1R5N1P3R You obviously haven't done any research on vertical farming. Not only is 70-95% less water used in hydroponics but it would be recycled through the use of filtration. Electricity would be provided by way of photovoltaics, wind, geothermal and incineration. Vertical farms would more than likely start off in abandoned buildings that are reconstructed. The only people making money from traditional agriculture now are large corporations so what's the difference?

[A1R5N1P3R]

@BigJosh226 Structure itself costs nothing? Do you realize wind turbines take years to see profitability? because those are obviously free too. Oh, and you do realize that solar cells (photovoltaics) produce marginal energy? But what would I know, I only worked fabricating them with a guy who holds his own solar cell patent. Only the biggest corporations could afford this and it wouldn't see profit for more than a decade. You're so out of your league. Keep farms in hands of farmers.

[BigJosh226]

@A1R5N1P3R Where did I write that the start-up cost would be free, you illiterate fuck-tard? A combination of sustainable energy would need to be incorporated, which is why I listed so many. You are assuming things and not critically thinking. This process would take a sizable amount of capital to start, but even if it took a decade to make a profit it would be worth it. It's about thinking long-term, which, if one is as narrow-minded as you seem to be, that might be difficult.

[A1R5N1P3R]

@BigJosh226 Are solar cells free too? because in your business model, you have all this spending on infrastructure, before you've even raised a crop. Then how about wear and tear? Maintenence of the building, wages for the workers, replacement parts? Even the people behind these projects admit their business model is for low yeild harvests... How will you pay the bills? Or is your head in the clouds; or more probably glued to a pipe.

[BigJosh226]

@A1R5N1P3R Refer to my comments below.

[A1R5N1P3R]

@BigJosh226 Do you even know what a business model is? Have you even touched a solar cell? Have you even held 20k cash in your hand? Do you understand the real world and how it operates? Your pipe dream comments say No.

Ask any businessman or investor if it's worth it to go into a losing business where you may see a profit 15 years down the line. Nature laughs at you.

The best answer is that technology can't support this for another 20 years at least.

[darthvader5300]

@A1R5N1P3R The Empire State building was once a temporary financial problem for it's owners but decades later started making a profit in the 50s up to the present. People must think in the long term. Short term thinking can be fatal. Americans think of the next quarterly stockholder meeting reports whereas Japan thinks of the next 20 to 30 years, even 40 to 50 years! Now Japan is in a much better economic situation that the U.S!

[darthvader5300]

@A1R5N1P3R Servo-mechanical automation and robotics can reduced labor costs. These technologies exists today and designed to last a life time.

[A1R5N1P3R]

@darthvader5300 what dream world do you live in? You know illegal immigrants will be the labor. Dumbest comment ever. How many farmers in California reusing robots? Do robots speak Spanish?

[darthvader5300]

@A1R5N1P3R We have Russians in Japan and they have seen agricultural robotics used successfully by the Japanese because of their shrinking population and STRICTEST ANTI-ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION LAWS. Dumbest comment ever? Dream world? We Russians say we throw that "Dumbest Comment" back to you! Obvious you don't know Russia's demographic farming crises. Japan knew mass production MECHATRONICS to slash robotic systems' costs and design them to last a lifetime, their demographic crises is the reason.

[darthvader5300]

@A1R5N1P3R It is obvious to us Russians that you are not well exposed and well versed to robotics technologies not yet seen in the west but are now a reality in many parts of Japan. You don't know mechatronics combined with CAD/CAM systems but Japanese are well versed wt such technologies. Us Russians says you are dumb not us for you have not seen what we have SEEN! Maybe you are afraid of robots taking over your present job or your economic status in life. Given time robots will take over jobs.

[darthvader5300]

@A1R5N1P3R Present materials technologies and building technologies that are maintenance-free, repair-free, and trouble-free and can last almost indefinitely are already in existence. Ancient Roman concrete submerged in sea water is still in brand new condition, Haigh Sophia uses an ancient Roman mortar exposed to coastal conditions has remained as good as new and resisted devastating earthquakes for thousands of years. Engineers well versed in such fields can point it out for anyone.

[darthvader5300]

@A1R5N1P3R There are also maintenance-free, repair-free, and trouble-free hydroponics systems like the original wroclow non-circulating hydroponics, bengal hydroponics, and the mittleider hydroponics. The 1st & 2sd systems can use rock dust powder dissolved in water while the 3rd system can use both rock dust powder, terra-preta powdered charcoal, nitrogen-fixing bacterial & mycorrhizal fungi innoculants to permanently maintain soil fertility & increase yields by 4 to 8.8 times of normal yields.

[darthvader5300]

@A1R5N1P3R The other technique is to combine vertical agriculture wt vertical farming. For example: Imagine producing in a 50' x 75' area as much food as a 16 acre farm using VertiCrop's techniques. More can be achieved wt other hydroponic systems. And be redesigning the building to allow natural sunlight to reach deeper inside the entire system. New insulation technologies can save energy. Living Machines can recycle all agricultural wastes and urban wastes.

[MrGamestop101]

@BigJosh226 question. Then why isnt everyone going for this idea if long term profits would be worth it?

[BigJosh226]

@A1R5N1P3R Look at global population growth trends and then look at how much land we would need to grow food 20, 30 or 40 years from now. It's not sustainable. If you've ever actually grown your own food (I'm assuming you haven't) you know there are a number of things that could ruin crops that are out of your control; weather, pests, weeds, improper climate etc. Vert farming would eliminate all those and more. Why don't you learn to expand your mind and evolve?

[A1R5N1P3R]

@BigJosh226 Oh, so now you're going to admit you buy into this global population lie? I suppose global warming is a threat too. Is the sky falling yet? This earth of ours can hold some 40-50 billion people, we hardly use any land at all if you look at things on a global scale. Why don't you invest in pipe dreams and buy into some more conspiracy theories, because real life is obviously too hard.

[BigJosh226]

@A1R5N1P3R This post does not even deserve a response.

[A1R5N1P3R]

@BigJosh226 taking your ball and going home? You should, and out of curiousity; do you even run a business? How old are you 14? Your school system is lacking.

[BigJosh226]

@A1R5N1P3R Stop trollin.

[A1R5N1P3R]

@BigJosh226 You're bad at this.

[GaminHasard]

the last guy was the best, how to make it commercially viable. thats the key.

[pharyngealized]

how soon is this building going to pay for itself, 1000 years?

[remember25october]

I expected you place trees on existing buildings walls.

[curingaging00]

I think building greenhouses on top of buildings will be one of the stepping stones.

[curingaging00]

building an entirely new massive building probably won't be the first vertical farms, the first will most likely be refurbished buildings, usage of abandoned buildings and lots that no one use. They will eventually develop to those "dream" skyscrapers, but we will most likely start smallscale then move up.

[Proteusutube]

Yes, let's listen to some dumbshit architects about how any natural system works. Do we want our food to come from sterile hospital environments with no interaction or benefit outside of our own human consumption? This is doing to the plants and our food supply what monoculture farming has done to the land and animals across the midwest, but this time in a bigger, more exensive, soulless cage. Looks like agricultural Auschwitz. Could we please work WITH nature a little bit more! Please!

[apacheslim]

@Proteusutube

Better to have it in some shitty weather at a farm full of natural cow shit that gets infected and lets have fucking pests climbing all over it. There you go there the natural way.

[BigJosh226]

@Proteusutube No matter how natural you think diversifying and organically growing food is, it's not. Humans artificially selecting and breeding plants for their best possible yield is unnatural and has helped destroy our ecological relationship with our surroundings. If we don't start utilizing indoor vertical farming soon, no matter how "natural" we grow, if we grow food in soil we will simply run out of land. We would need another land mass the size of Brazil by 2050 to keep farming in soil.

[BigJosh226]

@Proteusutube Plus, the more we can consolidate land mass by growing in a vertical environment, the more we can start to move off farmland and let nature take its course by ecologically reconstructing itself.

[A1R5N1P3R]

@BigJosh226 you really have no idea what you're saying. "Let nature take it's course" and vertical farming don't belong in the same sentence. VF is good, just your grasp of it is grade school.

[BigJosh226]

@A1R5N1P3R Yeah man, you've proven your vast knowledge on the subject with your insightful response. Go troll somewhere else.

[sbflash311]

You also have to deal with high waves on Lake Michigan.

[newyorkment]

someone should make this in Minecraft somehow

[MacabreManifesto]

Since we actually will run out of oil and natural gas, let's design a vertical farm that will actually work. One that will actually grow the most food per square foot and use the least material per volume, and is as economically efficient as possible, because I don't want to fucking starve to death!

[astrialkil]

@MacabreManifesto if you don't want to starve then move to the country and buy a farm ! Stop expecting others to feed you when your poor! you want to feed the poor? go ahead and buy a farm! fix the problem your self, no one else is.

[MacabreManifesto]

@astrialkil I don't want to farm and that's the point. In this wonderful world you are actually able to grow more than you need, this is called the basis of a fucking economy! If everyone just became farmers then life would suck balls because we wouldn't have anyone to paint, or compose music, or make this computer, so everyone just deciding to farm is a bad plan if you want to retain the quality of life you do now. AND you often WILL starve if you farm without pesticides. The great thing...

[MacabreManifesto]

@MacabreManifesto ...about industrial farming is that it eliminates famine and drought, which is why you can go to the store every day of every year and be able to afford everything, even things out of season.

[htprost]

Yeah, but what about the bees and insects that will swarm on these buildings? No one thought of that huh..

[astrialkil]

@htprost you need bees to pollinate, you want to put bees in there, so a free swarm is money and honey in your pocket !

[rolandgue]

i think the only problem is the price of the building but if you make it only for the visitor and resident of a skyscraper for the own supermarket and maby as second a recreational area it can work today

[endracismguy]

why build upwards it would be better and cheaper to build it on one level ,im just being silly i know but im saying so just for debate sake lol

[astrialkil]

@endracismguy how dare you be practical and build on one level on cheap ground away from the polluted city's and ship by solar thermal powered truck !

[endracismguy]

@astrialkil or maybe enviromentally friendly horse and carts

[endracismguy]

it would cost billions to build and you would have to charge $150 for a lettuce ...not to mention the water pumping costs ...not feasable but on the otherhand an interesting project

[djads9]

@endracismguy Wow dude how about you do some research before you leave a stupid comment like this on a video

[patombo321]

@endracismguy the only thing that cost that much is your mom, and btw the other dud e is right do ur research

[FractalBolt]

@patombo321 Why do you take his comment so seriously? Are you one of the architects behind these silly projects? (Except the last one, that one does look quite feasible)

[patombo321]

@FractalBolt im just saying do your research before you make stupid comments

[radiofreak56]

@endracismguy lol water pumping costs? what about electricity costs, the cost of pumping water is negligable.

[silversobe]

@endracismguy Not from a for profit standpoint but a resource management and access to food for all, it could work.

[astrialkil]

@silversobe if you allow every one to eat your food then with out paying then your employees go unpaid and unfed and how fair is that for all their hard work? profit is the cost of doing bushiness. no one says you have to make a billion dollars profit ! a hundred thousand is good enough.

[MrSpiffy702]

We are planning on building a vertical farm in the proposed design for Atlas City. These ideas give us something to look forward to. You can also participate in the construction. If you have any knowledge on such systems we'd be happy to discuss it further. Check out Atlas City Project.

[MrSpiffy702]

I'm still glad to see some of these conceptualizations.

[WACBlackout]

The idea is looks great from the outside but in reality this is the wrong approach.

For crops that grow indoors you need total environmental controls. With the "light being so reflective" it means it's harder to control. We now have LED grow lights that double yields but then you need air conditioning.

A better approach would be to grow underground where temperature is easier to control. Ventilation is key as well and having people live in the same building makes disease impossible to cont

[djads9]

@WACBlackout ya um.. its called a window for light... plants kinda need the sun to live

[WACBlackout]

@djads9 Um no, its called HPS & MH bulbs and LED lights.

[NiqueJB]

Hey there! I really love this idea. I want to ask if you can have rice in the buildings. I know the answer is simple, but can I ask how a rice farm can be maintained in a building like this?

[joel1923]

It would be cheaper to do what Detrot is doing:tear down abandoned houses and plant urban gardens. The space age architecture looks expensive.

[lrd9999]

@joel1923 It only makes sense if you are going to build a skyscraper for some other reason; without direct sunlight, the interior of the building would be useless for farming, so it could be used for other things. The design would also have to be amenable to automation, having farm workers swarming a cramped skyscraper to plant and harvest would probably be a deal breaker.

[Starwins]

This is definitely not feasible. This idea was tested in the 80's with biodomes. Food is cheap, it just that people like eating meat. So more grains are feed to animals.

I like the idea, but it just much more effective to just have greenhouses on top of buildings. Also permaculture is the most ideal way of producing food.

By the time this idea of a vertical agriculture is implemented, there will be solar/tidal energy developed by then.

[joel1923]

@Starwins Agree. Rooftop greenhouses on existing buildings would be more efficient. How much would one of these towers cost?

[ishipishhh]

Do consider the feasibility also. You cannot expect a vertical farm to work out in a location where skyscrapers and pollution dominate the market. Food Production needs it's own space 24/7. So locality of your Project Vertical Farm must be chosen wisely. Furthermore, I agree with andrewads about the wind factor! Nice ideas nonetheless guys! This could be the next "green revolution" for the world!

[andrewada]

Remember wind. Being circular helps, but it is limited if you'r going *really* high.

But then you can do a lot with ports that allow weather to literally blow through the structure. It's interesting.

[WullopPornruangwong]

thanks for great, green idea for our earth. There may be another one possibility i.e. vertical, fluid farm (using small sea weeds / algae).

[wtfbollos]

thing is, you dont need an expensive building as it will not be holding that much weight, certainly less than that for people..i like it, good idea! food production prevents anarchy, we must explore all ways of food production, anything new is good! (except GM food :P)

[andrewada]

It can only make sense for where you have a surplus of light - assuming you only use natural light. Then it would only be a double-story glasshouse. There is no point in expensive towers - too easy to get food into the city. Maybe put small versions on the outskirts for tomatoes and the like.

[bluemist431]

@andrewada There may be no point in expensive towers now, but once vertical farms are established and construction and operation costs are reduced through competition, there will be a point when it is reasonable to have these inside cities. Gas won't always be cheap, so unless semi trailers suddenly become hybrids and run on alternative fuels, skyscrapers are very foreseeable in the future. The vertical farm concept will develop slowly in refurbished buildings near downtown, then to skyscrapers