If Roy Jenkins was alive today he would be completely angry and disgraced that his party has now become part of this Tory government, he would have led a defection. He would have been sickened!
Why is our electoral system so shit, and why did people vote against a rather large improvement but not perfect improvement, I can't get my hard around it
@Coolguyrob2006 We had the ability to change the electoral system in May but we didn't take it. Av wasn't the best system but it was better than FPTP.
The case can be made that the SDP died the moment that Shirley Williams chose not to run for party leader. Jenkins was too old and literally slow to lead a party that was supposed to break the status quo of British politics. David Owen might have faired better as well had he won. He was an arrogant ass but unlike when he did become leader, the party had its momentum. He was more energetic than Roy. Indeed, Shirley or Owen should've been leader and they could've survived, I think.
Interesting conjecture though it's hard to imagine Shirley being able to surmount the Falklands Factor either. A few more seats in 1983 probably but that's about all. It's also worth remembering that Shirley failed to win a seat in three consecutive general elections.
Certainly a valid point. Really, the SDP-Liberal Alliance would've won in 1983 had there been no Falklands though. I firmly believe that. Though I think Steel probably should've been PM or Alliance leader instead of Jenkins based on ability.
Nice thought but I'm still a bit doubtful. If they'd gone into the 1983 election as frontrunners their policies ( and leaders ) would have been under much heavier scrutiny and I'm not sure they would have stood up.
I don't agree with the Steel/Jenkins point. Steel was more telegenic but he had zero experience of government compared to Jenkins being Home Secretary and Chancellor .
I honestly can't claim to know, but I do think they very well could've.
Well, that's true. However, as 1983 wore on, it became apparent that Steel was more popular than Jenkins and there was even internal pressure and meetings of SDP members where Jenkins was nearly forced to do just what I suggested.
I plan on voting Conservative in canada when I am of age. I would of liked to vote a little more "right" however, torrie is to farthest right party in my country. I watched this video to explore my options and keep an open mind. However I think I will stay as right as possible. I belive strongly in the right to bear arms. Stricter justice system, higher budget for the military, etc. but I respect your political views, and hope you are mature enough to respect mine.
@SpencerM1A1 Our own beliefs are always strenghtend by our knowledge and understanding of the beliefs of others. This way, we are able to respect each others views - as you do with mine and I do with yours.
Thank you, the song is 'Keeping the Dream Alive' by Freiheit - a German band I think. Personally, I believe this was one of their best tracks.
Is there still a Social Democrat party in the US. I plan on joining it in the future, and I can't find much information on rather it is still around or not.
I admire chat with genuine kindness about different political parties. Maybe you're all in the same party. American's, feeling duped by the whole GOV, & arguing/blaming ea. We see Corps & Bankers RULE politicians & the vote corrupt! Since our own 911 Coup, for Wars, Fraud, Bailouts, Cover-ups, Murders... a MOVEMENT demanding Civil Freedoms & Rights, is swelling. American morale is LOW, but we must stand 2gether to clean house. Got any advice at all? Truth, World Peace, & Angels around U 4ever
I always thought it was neat that David Owen would've been my family's representative had we stayed in Devonport where my family emigrated from. Ah well, I'm interested in odd things like that.
@bripat22 I hope she returns to Labour, David Owen is coming back from what I understand. Bill Rodgers is extremely rebellious against the Coalition.
In 1981, the Gang of Four should have organized themselves with Denis Healy, Roy Hattersley and Gerard Kaufman in order to bring down Michael Foot. I think Shirley Williams, David Owen or Denis Healy would have made fantastic leaders. Had that happened, Labour would have won 1983 and Thatcher would have been defeated once and for all.
@flametaledfox I remained a member of the continuing SDP but by that stage it was clear they were no longer in a strong enough position to influence politics in their unique way sadly. :-(
I did eventually & somewhat reluctantly go on to join the Liberal Democrats but something was & still remains missing from the party that the SDP had it's uniqueness.
If Roy Jenkins was alive today he would be completely angry and disgraced that his party has now become part of this Tory government, he would have led a defection. He would have been sickened!
CookieCrumblz 2 weeks ago
And I think the next part is: Nick Clegg destroyed the Liberal Democrats.
bigswano 2 months ago
Why is our electoral system so shit, and why did people vote against a rather large improvement but not perfect improvement, I can't get my hard around it
Coolguyrob2006 4 months ago
@Coolguyrob2006 We had the ability to change the electoral system in May but we didn't take it. Av wasn't the best system but it was better than FPTP.
prigg88 3 months ago 2
The case can be made that the SDP died the moment that Shirley Williams chose not to run for party leader. Jenkins was too old and literally slow to lead a party that was supposed to break the status quo of British politics. David Owen might have faired better as well had he won. He was an arrogant ass but unlike when he did become leader, the party had its momentum. He was more energetic than Roy. Indeed, Shirley or Owen should've been leader and they could've survived, I think.
lawrence142002 7 months ago
@lawrence142002
Interesting conjecture though it's hard to imagine Shirley being able to surmount the Falklands Factor either. A few more seats in 1983 probably but that's about all. It's also worth remembering that Shirley failed to win a seat in three consecutive general elections.
mikeMCSG 3 months ago
@mikeMCSG
Certainly a valid point. Really, the SDP-Liberal Alliance would've won in 1983 had there been no Falklands though. I firmly believe that. Though I think Steel probably should've been PM or Alliance leader instead of Jenkins based on ability.
lawrence142002 3 months ago
@lawrence142002
Nice thought but I'm still a bit doubtful. If they'd gone into the 1983 election as frontrunners their policies ( and leaders ) would have been under much heavier scrutiny and I'm not sure they would have stood up.
I don't agree with the Steel/Jenkins point. Steel was more telegenic but he had zero experience of government compared to Jenkins being Home Secretary and Chancellor .
mikeMCSG 3 months ago
@mikeMCSG
I honestly can't claim to know, but I do think they very well could've.
Well, that's true. However, as 1983 wore on, it became apparent that Steel was more popular than Jenkins and there was even internal pressure and meetings of SDP members where Jenkins was nearly forced to do just what I suggested.
lawrence142002 3 months ago
P.S. I love your taste in music. Would you tell me the name of this song? Thank you.
SpencerM1A1 1 year ago
I plan on voting Conservative in canada when I am of age. I would of liked to vote a little more "right" however, torrie is to farthest right party in my country. I watched this video to explore my options and keep an open mind. However I think I will stay as right as possible. I belive strongly in the right to bear arms. Stricter justice system, higher budget for the military, etc. but I respect your political views, and hope you are mature enough to respect mine.
SpencerM1A1 1 year ago
@SpencerM1A1 Our own beliefs are always strenghtend by our knowledge and understanding of the beliefs of others. This way, we are able to respect each others views - as you do with mine and I do with yours.
Thank you, the song is 'Keeping the Dream Alive' by Freiheit - a German band I think. Personally, I believe this was one of their best tracks.
flametaledfox 1 year ago
@flametaledfox Thanks mate.
Cheers
SpencerM1A1 1 year ago
Is there still a Social Democrat party in the US. I plan on joining it in the future, and I can't find much information on rather it is still around or not.
XIronChancellorX 1 year ago
I admire chat with genuine kindness about different political parties. Maybe you're all in the same party. American's, feeling duped by the whole GOV, & arguing/blaming ea. We see Corps & Bankers RULE politicians & the vote corrupt! Since our own 911 Coup, for Wars, Fraud, Bailouts, Cover-ups, Murders... a MOVEMENT demanding Civil Freedoms & Rights, is swelling. American morale is LOW, but we must stand 2gether to clean house. Got any advice at all? Truth, World Peace, & Angels around U 4ever
Caligirl1st 1 year ago
@Caligirl1st You are a true, non-blinded American
XIronChancellorX 1 year ago
I always thought it was neat that David Owen would've been my family's representative had we stayed in Devonport where my family emigrated from. Ah well, I'm interested in odd things like that.
lawrence142002 1 year ago
Sad split of the left which helped only Thatcher. Especially sad that Shirley left Labour
bripat22 1 year ago 2
@bripat22 If Labour are lucky, it seems that old SDP members may return to them (thinking in mind of Charles Kennedy and his five MPs)
flametaledfox 1 year ago
@flametaledfox Charles Kennedy won't return which is ashame. I know there is an MP who has thought about it and is still thinking about it.
CookieCrumblz 2 weeks ago
@bripat22 I hope she returns to Labour, David Owen is coming back from what I understand. Bill Rodgers is extremely rebellious against the Coalition.
In 1981, the Gang of Four should have organized themselves with Denis Healy, Roy Hattersley and Gerard Kaufman in order to bring down Michael Foot. I think Shirley Williams, David Owen or Denis Healy would have made fantastic leaders. Had that happened, Labour would have won 1983 and Thatcher would have been defeated once and for all.
CookieCrumblz 2 weeks ago
*their own party
ajuk1 1 year ago
And now they've sold out to the tories...
dalisback1 1 year ago 4
@dalisback1 I agree with Alex Kear.
flametaledfox 1 year ago
Of course, it can be easily argued that the SDP did come to power under another name in 1997 - New Labour.
npe1 1 year ago
As a former member of the SDP it's always saddened me that they didn't achieve more success electorally.
scritti 2 years ago
Did you join the SLD or did you remain with the 'Continuing SDP' under Owen following the merger?
flametaledfox 2 years ago
I joined the SLD for a while,but left due to disallusionment with politics in general.
scritti 2 years ago
@flametaledfox I remained a member of the continuing SDP but by that stage it was clear they were no longer in a strong enough position to influence politics in their unique way sadly. :-(
I did eventually & somewhat reluctantly go on to join the Liberal Democrats but something was & still remains missing from the party that the SDP had it's uniqueness.
scritti 1 year ago
Comment removed
scritti 2 years ago