Stefan Molyneux Zeitgeist Addendum Review assessed by Dean Kearns Part 3

[thebedshow]

Almost everything you use to refute the free market is not from the free market but from the state.

[theredscourge]

The existence of a wealth gap, and existence of partially free markets is not sufficient evidence to blame all of your problems on capitalism. If capitalism is so bad, you'd think the exact opposite would be great, except you'd be forgetting about the gulags of the USSR. History has proven that the freest societies dominate, then turn into fascist states and fail as the power hungry take over the government and turn it into a fascist state slowly. If there is no government to take over though...

[MsQueenofBlades]

They blame the state, taxation and all this crap for all the flaws in the world. I just don't get why people like Stefan doesn't see this is what happens in a free market, where everything is for sale, includind power, influence, it's really a free market where everything is a free for all. Futhermore, it's so naive to think government has this much power, when in fact they're just a business like everything else, corporations elect politicians and call the shots.

[theredscourge]

@MsQueenofBlades If the state is a business, how many businesses do you know have the power to annex large tracts of land from the native people, and throw you in jail if you do not want to either buy their product or buy a product from one of their competitors?

[theredscourge]

There are nearly stateless societies within our society today. Think of the hutterites, the amish, and other similar societies. Sure, they may have some sort of social hierarchy, but none of them is really in charge, and freedom is plentiful. Our governments let them own a big chunk of land, and they engage in trade amongst themselves (with or without money). Wait no, I shouldn't be silly, a stateless society could never work, there are no amish people!...bring on the taxes!

[jeffiek]

@MsQueenofBlades "it's really a free market where everything is a free for all. "

NO, NO, NO, not everything. The initiation of force is not allowed in the free market, all transactions must be voluntary.

"A free market is a competitive market where prices are determined by supply and demand. " - wikipedia. org/wiki/Free_market

What YOU see is an hallucination. Which explains why neither Stef nor I see it.

[magentawave]

@MsQueenofBlades - Only the state can create a true monopoly by granting favors to companies (i.e. fascism/corporatism/crony capitalism) or using force at the point of a gun. "Monopolies" in a true free market drift away as new and better products/services are introduced and consumers choose to buy them over the other.

[gsukrw06]

@MsQueenofBlades The only reason "power is for sale" is because YOU created the power in the first place. YOU see power as legitimate. YOU voted the corrupt politician into office. YOU perpetuate the system. I suggest you read "The Politics of Obedience: A Discourse on Voluntary Servitude" by ÉTIENNE DE LA BOÉTIE

[isendel333]

This guy Stefan is a real joke. Thas no base on what he says. Obviously doesn't even dig first to find out what is and what is not true.at is all I have to say about him. He h

[isendel333]

This guy Stefan is a real joke. That is all I have to say about him. He has no base on what he says. Obviously doesn't even dig first to find out what is and what is not true.

[Psicloone]

watch food inc to see what happens when you have giant corporations and weak mickey mouse government

[5m1nutes]

It is so funny how those anarcho-capitalists assume that people will magically become experts on every topic and would avoid fraud on all possible fronts without the need of regulatory government.

The only "free" thing in this freemarket system is the ability of the employer to abuse his workers as much as he likes, taking as much as he wants for himself. It will be oligarch factory on steroids.

[jeffiek]

@5m1nutes It's even funnier that you can proclaim that anarcho-capitalists make assumptions that they DO NOT MAKE.

Isn't hearing and/or seeing things that don't exist commonly called an hallucination?

[5m1nutes]

@jeffiek well, spend time and read the "practical" anarchy book - you will see why.

[5m1nutes]

@jeffiek also after a comment I made about the death German child in BG hotel after being sucked by pool pump. Weeks before government ordered for enclosure of the dangerous pools. Here in BG however it is close to anarchy and oligarchs opened them anyway, so as predicted, a tragedy followed.

The anarchy folks argued that many people will "chose safety, instead of cheapness", which is a property impossible to detect by common not specially educated man, unlike luxury and low price.

[5m1nutes]

@jeffiek and that is a circumstantial example - what about the other fields which require expert to detect a fraud? It is much more efficient to have 1 specialized regulatory organ, than to expect everybody to be expert on everything.

[jeffiek]

@5m1nutes "expect everybody to be expert"

There you go with more hallucinations. You really should see a therapist.

Now if you ask me a rational question, I'll be glad to respond.

[5m1nutes]

@jeffiek Hm, no, I would ask a person that have actually lived in almost lawless oligarchical society, instead of someone who doesn`t know wtf he is talking about.

[jeffiek]

@5m1nutes And how would that solve your problem of not being able to understand what they say?

[5m1nutes]

@jeffiek I understand what "they say". But it contradicts reality.

[jeffiek]

@jeffiek Clearly you don't. Because they don't "assume that people will magically become experts"

Which is where we started.

[MGGoblin]

@jeffiek This nonsense about the difference of killing and kissing is not my point. The point is IN A COMPETITIVE SYSTEM, THERE WILL BE LOOTERS, BECAUSE "COMPETITION" IS WHAT THE SYSTEM IS DEMANDING FOR PEOPLE. IF YOU DEMAND COMPETITION, ¿WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THAT THERE WILL NOT BE VIOLENT AND AGRESSIVE PEOPLE?.

[MGGoblin]

@MGGoblin MONOPOLY IS NOT AN EVIL PRODUCT, IT IS THE MAIN GOAL OF THE SYSTEM. IT DOES NOT MATTER IF THE GOD DAMN AND SUPER EVIL STATE OR A NOBLE "FREE" CORPORATION BUILDS YOUR HOUSE; IN BOTH CASES THE MECHANISM IS THE SAME, AND THE END GOAL IS THE SAME. IF THERE IS NO PROFIT IN A PROJECT, IT IS SIMPLY NOT DONE. PERIOD.

[Crabbensmasher]

The Zeitgeist movement argues against the monetary system, capitalism, money etc. What sets their discontent apart from that of a communist?

I keep hearing the same "money is the root of all evil" type argument. No wonder people are calling the zeitgeist movement communist. I want to hear some differences in the argument.

[thenoorys]

@Crabbensmasher No doubt they share something. I'm personally sick of the "communism is the root of all evil argument" what's bad about collectivism or communalism? I'm not talking about the oft cited Stalinist and Leninist regimes. But the idea intrinsic. Anarcho-communism eliminates the state and dictators and solves problems without forceable coercion. Unlike capitalism which requires private property and hence the state.

[Crabbensmasher]

@thenoorys I couldn't agree more. Some people just need to grow up, open their eyes and really look at the world. They get far too caught up in ideologies and forget what really matters. I have trouble understanding how so many come to be so narrow minded,

[eatcaca2012]

peter joseph ripped him a new asshole

[freehouse78]

Stefan, you are as stupid as you look. It is because of people like you that society is fucked up.

[vorlaci]

Sorry but this Stefan guy obviously just likes the sound of his own annoying voice. There is nothing of value in anything said here. More mindless ignorant waffle. Peter Joseph shouldn't be wasting his time with this.

[BLAGASPANTS]

Wow, Peter Joseph completely fucking owned your ass. 

I'd consider reviewing a cartoon, or may be a teenage comedy next.

Seriously fucking poor videos these.

[MillionthUsername]

Idiotically stupid communist blather. Can't watch more than a minute of any these.

[TheBerserker50]

would be nice to see the people that want change(Stefan) to bend to those who have a better grasp of what is n what needs to be done. c'mon Stefan, I'm a bar room philosopher who's tasted much of this worlds workings n almost all of the USAs, too .... dramatic and complete change must be had before it is foist upon us by Nature or the current realities. We are so so .... hurting and near disaster . break away from the herd and Embrace the commonality. cut the crap SM. you are lost ... let go!

[zoidbetag]

Oh snap. Just watched Peter Joseph's response.

Nice try, man.

[HeyItzMeDawg]

I watched another minute of this and still stopped watching.

"Oh this contradicts what he said earlier in this other video"

Seriously?? I mean, seriously? Are you four?

[deanjdk]

@HeyItzMeDawg I am pointing out an inconsistency of his argument.....lol..are you trying to imply the highlighing of a flawed position is somehow childish on my behalf?? Jesus .... you're really clutching at straws here man

[HeyItzMeDawg]

@deanjdk I'm trying to inform you that you have the comprehension level of a four year old. Because if you didn't you would realize that there was no contradiction whatsoever there.

[HeyItzMeDawg]

Stopped watching at 1:17.

"Look at the causes of poverty in the world for proooooof!!!!"

Wow. No, really, look at the causes of poverty in ALL OF HISTORY for why this backwards-ass rebuttal is ridiculous.

[deanjdk]

@HeyItzMeDawg Have you watched part 1 and 2 of this video series?

[HeyItzMeDawg]

@deanjdk Yeah, and that was the tipping point, really.

[nielss4]

As much as I like Stefan, I feel he is somewhat biased towards his view on anarcho-capitalism. I personally belief the only anarcho system that can work is anarcho-communism. But anyway, Stefan's 'the competition will prevent companies from becoming monopolies' philosophy is ignorant/blind. Does he not see that when companies are tired of the competition, they can just merge? TVP still stays the winner.

[baggytheo]

This video is retarded.

[deanjdk]

@baggytheo

lol..Thanks for your constructive criticism.I see your an Alex Jones fan..........ill say no more

[baggytheo]

@deanjdk I'm not an Alex Jones fan, and how you would have gathered that from me saying "This video is retarded" is beyond me. I'm saying your criticisms of Molyneux in the video are weak and disjointed, and don't really help your case. You're not arguing on the level of philosophy and first principles, you're arguing at the level of petty rhetoric, and it shows. Everything you say about the monetary system is correct, except your conclusion that it's the root problem. Statism is.

[deanjdk]

@baggytheo You have the alex jones channel as one of your subscriptions!.You have completly misunderstood the point of the video.Even without state intervention a monetary system cannot work due to the cyclical consumption of finite resources and externalization of costs NEEDED to sustain even a freemarket unaffected by the state..Please ..before replying please bother to learn what i mean by externalization of costs and cyclical consumption.Capitalism doesnt work with or without statism

[baggytheo]

@deanjdk You couldn't have a monetary system as you describe without a state. And you keep conflating a lot of different words and concepts as if they are synonymous, even new ones you've made up like "monetaryism". To talk about what a free market would look like in the absence of a state is just guesswork at this point, since neither a free market nor a stateless society have ever existed in history, and since you can't predict the desires, behavior and interactions of billions of individuals.

[deanjdk]

@baggytheo What do you mean""You couldn't have a monetary system as you describe without a state"" ...i am not arguing for a monetary system!

You have just demonstrated that you do not understand what i am saying..With or without state intervention WE STILL RUN INTO THE SAME UNDERLYING PROBLEMS that Stefan completly ignores.Ill say it again.Our economic system relys on both cyclical consumption of finite resources and the externalization of costs onto a poor majority for sustaination.

[baggytheo]

@baggytheo I'm saying a monetary system, such as the "monetaryism" you describe in your film and literature, could not exist without a state, because the state is what forces everyone to both use and accept ONLY the Fed's debt-based "money". I DO understand your arguments, it's just that I don't agree with them. And parroting them over and over to yourself while you pretend that others "just don't understand" is foolish. If you want to get rid of monetaryism, you have to get rid of the state.

[infokriegerBerlin]

@baggytheo

i agree wih all youre saying here !!

your video is very weak and the conclousions are too : deanjdk

[deanjdk]

@infokriegerBerlin Aha.Another Alex Jones Fan.lol

Please expand and explain specifically why you find my video and conclusions to be "weak".

All pyrimid schemes SEEM to work at some point but it is just an inevitable stage towards collapse..and that is exactly what we have now.Saying "kill statism,we need a freemarket" is like saying "at one stage this pyrimid scheme worked..lets do what we were doing when it (seemed to) work".What we have now is a RESULT of a freemarket system.State irrelevent

[infokriegerBerlin]

@deanjdk

aha another peter joseph fan !

is that your level of discussion?! very childish!

the guys here are making very valid points, wich u are unable to realy understand...and to answer.

also you missing the points ov stef.

you even dont know what a real free market is man. a market with state intervention isnt a free market. if you dont understand this, ...what can i say ;)

if you cant see, that the zg concept is krypto-communism , well go and read some books about it ;)

[deanjdk]

@infokriegerBerlin

I pointed out the alex jones thing because there seems to be a trend of people mimicing any opinion he has no matter how baseless it is..I am addressing stefs points.I dont know what a freemarket is? I dont think you understand my argument enough if that is your responce.

The zeigeist movemnt advocates the scientific method towards social concern...in other words it has no bias or opinion.Now..are you going to address the point i made in my last comment or not?

[deanjdk]

@infokriegerBerlin Ill say it again ...monopolys and cartels are the RESULT of a monetary system with or without state intervention.Does state intervention speed up the process in any way? of course i can/does but it does not chance the tendancy built into a competition based economic system.Stefans arguments are not addressing in any way the problems that a resource based economy tries to solve.

[HeyItzMeDawg]

@deanjdk "monopolys and cartels are the RESULT of a monetary system with or without state intervention."

What exactly lead you to this conclusion?

[deanjdk]

@HeyItzMeDawg "monopolys and cartels are the RESULT of a monetary system with or without state intervention"

watch the video again specifically 7:44 .the state is not a necessary ingredient for monopolies or cartels.Basic understanding of any localized market structure will demonstrate this obvious fact of reality.

By the way. you might be interested in this -->

watch?v=ozy52bZ6JTw

please watch this before posting again on this video as it addresses your points

[HeyItzMeDawg]

@deanjdk Monopolies and Cartels are also not necessarily intrinsically bad. Basic understanding of the formation and destruction of monopolies will help you comprehend this obvious fact of reality.

The only time necessarily bad monopolies are formed is when force is used to maintain them, i.e. government or the state. Which is why the state is in fact required. And, of course, monopolies and cartels are entirely possible whether or not a monetary system exists.

And I've watched the video.

[TheBerserker50]

@HeyItzMeDawg how ignorant is this response man? you talk of the accepted reality but it is THE.... results of the reality. the systems which are producing these results are the ones that need to be replaced and not one fucking portion of them is viable. the state is s oanti - nature...anti truth AND... how do you look in the mirror after such a stupid damn statement?

[HeyItzMeDawg]

@deanjdk 7:44 is a joke, as is the rest of this video. I'd have to make an hour long response just to point out all the flaws.

[deanjdk]

@HeyItzMeDawg you have addressed nothing..simply saying "its a joke" does nothing for your rational credibility.Feel free to make an hour long response.Feel free to do the same to Peter Josephs Stefan response also

[HeyItzMeDawg]

@deanjdk What rational credibility do you have?  A half-assed youtube video that addresses nothing and makes a ton of unsupported assertions.

Whatever man, this video doesn't warrant another comment.

[jeffiek]

@deanjdk "What we have now is a RESULT of a freemarket system"

In some sense you are absolutely correct. The free market works so well and produces so much that the state can sneak in unnoticed and commence stealing.

This works for a while, until the politicians get too greedy. The state is not irrelevant. It is the cause of the current mess.

Stefan wants to get rid of the politicians that steal and leave the productive process. You want the reverse.

Brilliant.

[thenoorys]

@jeffiek You have it backwards. The politicians are paid off. The corporatist get greedy in a free market and buy up the state to protect their interests through state law. All really good capitalist like the state at some level, it gives them the power of law when they practice bad business.

[jeffiek]

@thenoorys Hello.

You can't buy the state to protect your interest in a free market. There IS NO STATE intervention in a free market. If there is state intervention in a market - it's NOT FREE.

It helps to actually know the definition of words before you use them.

[MGGoblin]

@jeffiek But again... ¿what the hell does that have to do with the Zeitgeist criticism? You ignore the logic and stand in that ideology point. "Oh... in a Free Market nobody would..." wich is ridicolous because IN A FREE MARKET YOU WANT TO MAXIMIZE YOUR PROFITS AND IF THAT MEANS STATE INTERVENTION, THEN IT DOES NOT MATTER. PERIOD.

[jeffiek]

@MGGoblin "If there is state intervention in a market - it's NOT FREE."

Is there a word in there that you don't understand?

You ignore the dictionary, use contradictory terms, and still expect people to think you're making sense.

Do you understand that people using weapons ( state intervention ) is NOT the same as people using dollar bills?

Can you tell the difference between a gun and a piece of paper?

Can you tell the difference between profit and loot?

[MGGoblin]

@jeffiek You will have criminals and looters, because the system is BASED in COMPETITION, and to win, there will ALWAYS be ruthless and agressive people who will USE the "Evil Socialist State" in their own benefit. I simply don't understand how you demand competition (with it's final goal: WIN) in a system, but you deny monopoly. If you are playing a game, and you want to WIN the game (Maximize profits)... then... It's beyond me... ;)

[jeffiek]

@MGGoblin Just as I thought. You can't tell the differences I listed.

And then you follow the good old dishonest tactic of trying to change the subject.

Go yank somebody else's crank.

[MGGoblin]

@jeffiek You really think I am Afraid of facing you? Of course I can tell the difference between looting and working my friend. But that was not MY POINT and you QUOTED ME and came up with this distinction that simply has nothing to do with what I said. I was talking ABOUT THE SYSTEM ITSELF - NOT AN ETHICAL ISSUE. ¿Now who (wich by the way very violent and agressive attitude in the first place, with no reason) is changing the subject? My comment was to everybody, not you.

[jeffiek]

@MGGoblin "you QUOTED ME "

Can't you people get anything right? I quoted myself and deanjdk. Either you're using two different accounts or you're an idiot.

[MGGoblin]

@jeffiek Not answering anything I said will not make me look like an idiot. It will make you look like one. I'm sorry friend, I cannot debate with a fanatic.

[jeffiek]

@MGGoblin I'm confused, which is it? Are you an idiot, or using two different accounts?

Oh, wait there's a third alternative. You're hallucinating.

I am not your friend, and there is no debate.

[MGGoblin]

@jeffiek Ignore the arguments. There is a debate, it's just you are cowardly ignoring it. And by the way, one of the most dogmatic comments one can make is "There is no debate" Of course there is, wether you like it or not. And no, I do not use 2 accounts, you are not so important... Ignore my points, ignore my facts and attack me with insults so tipical of cowards, not true thinkers or philosophers. You are a dogmatic fanatic, I'm sorry if you cannot answer with anything. Epic fail.

[jeffiek]

@MGGoblin OK, some progress, you don't have two accounts. Then why did you post "you QUOTED ME", when I didn't?

I can't help but ignore your "facts" - because they aren't facts, they aren't even true. ^^^^^^^^

There is no debate, that requires two people capable of thought. There's a rational adult, and an idiot spewing nonsense. Sorry if that sounds rude, but somebody's got to say it.

[MGGoblin]

@jeffiek The extreme denial of the natural consecuences of the monetary market system, not pointed just by me but by most sociologists and economists (the real ones, not those idiots in banks), is the testament I need. There is no debate, you are right, there is just one dogmatic imbecile who instead of showing WHY my "stupid arguments" are wrong is hiding behind insults tipical of weak-minded arrogant people. End of the story. If I come here again and see insults instead of arguments, well...

[jeffiek]

@MGGoblin WHAT arguments? We're still working on how to correctly attribute quotes.

When you get that right, let me know. Then we can move on to the ORIGINAL TOPIC, which I made in my response to thenoorys:

"If there is state intervention in a market - it's NOT FREE."

I made the ORIGINAL statement. YOU butted in, YOU avoid any attempt to understand commonly accepted terms. You just keep spewing nonsense and then claim I'm avoiding you. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Jeez

[AngryHateMusic]

This video is weak, very weak...

[aguscapo]

You conflated violence with voluntaryism, so pretty much every single counter point in this video doesn't address any of Stef's points.

For example, at 4:40 you point to a wealth gap and say SEE! wealth gap=free market! Without ever showing that the free market was the cause.

I think that would be hard to prove anyway. Especially considering that in every case that a country has moved towards a freer economy poverty has diminished. See Hong Kong/South Korea/West Germany/ SE Asia in general.

[deanjdk]

@aguscapo Your missing the point completly.The situation we have now is a result of a monetary system...its not due to state intervention.with or without state intervention or regulation you are left with a system that promotes and creates monopoly(symbiotic or not) and RELYS upon the externalization of costs and cyclical consumption just to perpetuate itself.Please..before you or others bother to reply please make an effort to understand what this means..Im so sick of strawman arguments

[bmanbman29]

this guy is retarded

[Matty14388]

Good videos man and on the spelling issue, not having awesome spelling or not checking it does not mean deanjdk is uneducated, infact knowing how to spell isn't really that important, grammer is the last thing on my mind in video's like these, focus on the point and less on an irrelevant spelling problem. Again good vids really enjoyed it :)

[signalfire6]

Your counterpoints to Mr. Molyneux's critique of Addendum is welcome, but would be more powerful if your spelling was better. The lack of proofreading looks amateurish and uneducated.

[deanjdk]

@signalfire6 While you are correct that my spelling has some errors.I rushed to rendering without spellchecking,however it is the points being made that are important. The purpose of language and consequently written text is to transfer certain conceptual information from one persons brain to another...if my use of text has achieved this then i have been successful regardless of spelling errors.Thanks for the constructive criticism

[Blissentia]

the first half of Z:A addresses parasitism and corporate socialism. You confuse that with capitalism, just as Z:A does in the 2nd half.

[megatherium100]

I find it really curius, that of all the objections and criticts of the movie, this particular critic and review of the movie in question is the one that has recived the most attetion by part of the makers of the movie and the followers of them, by trying to disproved so vicerally againts this guy you are proving right Stefan, you have to come with somethign more solid that competition and free-markets are inherintly evil because they seek profits, thats just sounds like crazy religuos talk.

[deanjdk]

@megatherium100...its not the "profit" that is the problem..its the consequences of a monetary system.The only religous talk going on here is the constant strawmen arguments of those in advocation of anarchism..if you think the venus project is just against profit then you have demonstrated a complete misunderstanding of that which you are opposing.

[megatherium100]

@deanjdk As long as you dont try to enforce it on the general population just because you and a groupd of ppeople think it is the right and only way to don things, them i am perfectly find with the venus proyect, i just expect that you extend the same level of respect to think the things that i do and act on them, in other words, if you plan to point a gun to "convince me" that yours is the right way, then we dont hav anymore a real debate.

[deanjdk]

@megatherium100 nobody is advocating force here at all..iv often come across people who misinterprit what the venus project actually is...i think youll find it interesting.Its a method to solving problems without bias or assumption and thats it.People think its about building cities etc but thats completly false..its just applying the scientific method for social concern instead of making assumptions that people are inherintly greedy etc

[megatherium100]

Dean Kearns is once again confusing, or generalizing, that because, some people like to seek profit by force(violence) then the whole thing is corrupt, and that is just nonsense, likee the argument that the creator of zeitgeist made in ther movie.

In order to get a real prespective you have to see, that it is violence, that is perpetuated by the coercive monopoly that has he goverment, is the real problem, not money or the natural need of the individual the seek property.

[deanjdk]

@megatherium100 Im getting sick of these comments and pms that do nothing to address the points made in these videos.You are missing the underlying premis here.A freemarket system DOES NOT WORK..it relys on lots loosing out in order to perpetuate (short term) a system of consumtion.A monetary system DOES NOT WORK.Our resouces are spread globably generally speaking,the consumption of products the monetary system relys on only works when externalization of costs comes into effect.

[megatherium100]

@deanjdk If you are sick and tired of people arguenting againts your argumen, then you should explaian why the free market dosent work, because if the premise was ta in the free market someone alway looses, then this couldnt had been developed, because then we wont be geenerating any wealth, what you want is that we accept as true the premise that markets are inhereently evil, but you have to developted more your argument.

[herpiethelovebug]

while I disagree with Stefan on this, he does make some good points and observations on other subjects. The Bomb in the Brain was an excellent series of videos. So I understand his stand on violence. Statism is Dead was enjoyable as well, as is the Story of Your Enslavement. I guess I'm saying, don't throw the child out with the bath water. B in the B highlights the problems of relating with other people. You guys will fight into eternity for your points, doesn't make em right.

[MoJoSB]

This guys Stefan review was SO illogical, it was hard to sit through.

Not only that but it was Hostile, name calling, simple minded, fluff.

Just seem like he had an ax to grid, maybe cause Zeit gets such attention.

[Hostile]

Good work startxx1991, vteam02. Nice to find voices of rationality and voluntarism among all the keen ass-kissing to Messiah Joseph.

[startxxx1991]

wrong.

stefan explains that the wealth gap was created by violence.

freedom leads to competition

competition does not lead to violence

competition does not lead to corruption or wealth gap.

there is no rich elite in a real free market.

[deanjdk]

@startxxx1991 sent you a pm..cant send a long message here for some reason

[deanjdk]

@startxxx1991 competition leads to strive for profit gain(obviously). Any free market is a monopoly and cartel CREATING system

[Hostile]

@deanjdk No it's not. If that was true, wouldn't Microsoft have eradicated Apple? Wouldn't Toyota have replaced all the other automobile companies? Wouldn't there be one media giant in the US, instead of the five that exist? In the UK we have a media monopoly: the BBC, funded by the state, destroys choice and competition and ruins our ability to compete internationally.

Or what about the East India Company? The ultimate monopoly, given authority by the state and NOT won through the free market!

[deanjdk]

@Hostile lol..you have completly missed my rebuttal to stefans points and now you are arguing strawmen...not only that by you have also missed the arguments put forth by zeitgeist addendum.again..DO YOU UNDERSTAND EXTERNALIZATION OF COSTS..jesus christ you brainwashed anarchists just dont get it..

[Hostile]

@deanjdk Dude, who brainwashed me into anarchy? Achieving anarchistic clarity is very difficult... you need to spend a lot of time running through logical paths before you realise the immorality of statism. You, on the other hand, just watched a funny documentary... one which I quite enjoyed but thankfully never took to heart. So I'm brainwashed for coming to my own conclusion, but you're not even though your beliefs come from trance music and flashing images? Riiiiight... got my doubts on that.

[deanjdk]

@Hostile Im NOT defending statism..IM saying without it..certain problems will still exist.Error number 2...you assuem tat i have just watched a documentary and based all my arguments on that?incorrect.You are repeating the same.."its all the states fault" crap when in reality there much more discrepincies to the system than that

[Hostile]

@deanjdk I don't assume that you've based your beliefs ONLY on a documentary, although I'm sure many PJ fans do, just that you most likely STARTED with the documentary... since only a nutjob would jump straight to this weird, cult-like utopia worship without the trance music and flashing images to make it seem attractive beforehand.

No system is perfect, and we don't require a perfect system to live happily. What we DO require is morality and freedom, and I don't think the Z-cult can offer that

[deanjdk]

@Hostile My understanding is based on the understanding of a wide range of interacting causal problems rather than to say"its the states fault".It demonstrates such a skin deep understanding of the concequences of having a monetary system.Social stratification for example.development of social class etc

[Hostile]

@deanjdk Yeah yeah yeah, I saw the documentary. Allowing people the freedom to buy and own property means that some will make smart decisions and own more, that's a reality of human interaction. It's not a problem, and even if it was it doesn't change the moral principle that you've no right to inflict restrictions upon the lives of other free people.

[vteam02]

What your are describing is statist "free" market. Stefan is a market anarchist.  Its a misrepresentation to say that today resembles what he wants, because today's world is not anarchist.

[deanjdk]

@vteam02 Hi vteam02.ill respond by saying this...would a freemarket without the state produce monopolies ,cartels etc?OF COURSE IT WOULD!!Would it produce externalization of costs?yes!Would it produce differental advantage?YES!Does it create propensity of profit over sustainability of resources?YES!With or without the state its still doesnt work

[vteam02]

can you point me to a more elaborate response? The state is an integral part of capitalism. It defines and protects the "property" rights, it taxes and imposes fiat currency, it claims to be the ultimate arbiter in a geographic region inside imaginary lines. It seems to me that the only thing similar between capitalism and market anarchism is in the name (market anarchist use a revisionist meaning of "market").

[deanjdk]

@vteam02 You have not addressed any of the points i made in the previous comment..by the way .i am not in advocation of a freemarket,statist or otherwise.A statist freemarket does not work for the same reasons a freemarket within an anarchistic system would not work.Its the shared attributes that are the problem

[vteam02]

@deanjdk

I did not answer to your points, because the points you made have not been substantiated with argumentation, neither has the caparison between state capitalism and market anarchism, neither the claim that Molyneux's "free market" supports something that we have today. They are all claims without explanation.

[deanjdk]

@vteam02 Ok,very simply,1 - do you understand the term "externalization of costs" with relevence to a monetary based freemarket system?Now...please state a definition of anarchistic freemarket(in relation to Stefans argument)) and we can work from there,,,just so we are not arguing strawmen here.

[vteam02]

So I don't see how the analysis of state capitalism could even reomotely be applied to market anarchism, which doesn't not even have to have profit. The only common theme in market anarchism is a lockean theory of appropriation. You are misrepresenting market anarchism, because there is no rule that says you have to make a profit

[Peterwhitlock]

Too bad poor deanjdk has such a limited perception that he see everything wrong. Did ether of them even mention the over population problem that cause it all? you know kids in the 50's life was great! crime was low food was good..over population ruined it and now fools that know not what is what point to money and then have NOTHING beter but WHAT IF and so many fall for it. NO solid solution means they have no solution and that is FACT! Copy from masons that got it from scripture means nothing!

[deanjdk]

@Peterwhitlock

lol..another one of those "it was great back then".

Dont worry there wee problems back then aswell.its the system in place that makes our situation inevitable..not overpopulation

[Peterwhitlock]

Ok dude, you need to go watch KING CORN and FOOD INC just to get a clue. Things are not what they seam to you. The SYSTEM? WHAT SYSTEM! No template to solve all the problems of mankind=NO SYSTEM! I have the answer, and it fits everyone! But it is from God and is promise from God to all this given in the past they seam to avopid like the plague to claim HIS and project! Poor Peter made a big mistake to include JF and act against JESUS and his Church. Now go see the city of God at my channel.

[deanjdk]

lol..iv seen the rest of your comments on other videos peterwhitlock...you continue to demonstrate an inability to understand peoples responses to your comments.god is as real as allah or zeus or the three 4 headed invisible cows that created the universe.your a religious nut with a serious complex

[S1L3nCe]

Deanjdk, great job man. So direct and simple. I love that. I'm definitely gonna subscribe to your channel.

I always find S. Molyneux very interesting but contradictory at times. He is always talking about how important is empiricism but when you question his ideas he tends to leave empiricism out of the equation. It is obvious he has some business made around his ideas and wants to sell them...

[conquesimo]

The reviewer writes:

"Once again this demonstrates the ignorance of Mr Molyneux to realise the reality of this so called 'voluntary' system. Firstly... LOOK AT THE CAUSE OF POVERTY IN THE WORLD FOR YOUR PROOF!"

And at this point, I stop the video. The reviewer has just shown us that he does not understand how incredibly removed the current system is from a free market society. The reviewer shares the same misunderstanding as Zeitgeist Addendum's creator.

[deanjdk]

OK conquesimo..So do you believe that within a so called "freemarket" that monopolies and cartels would not arise?Think about it.

[conquesimo]

Your response is irrelevant to my initial post.

In my initial post, I included a quote from your video where you directly imply that free market capitalism is the cause of poverty in the world. I simply point out that your claim can't possibly be true because, as any learned economic scholar knows, our current system has nothing to do with free market capitalism.

I'd love to carry on a conversation about monopolies and cartels after you've appropriately addressed my initial comment.

[deanjdk]

@conquesimo Im addressing a FREEMARKET(which you promote) and asking you if you believe it would not reproduce the same problems within this system...it is 100% completely related to your original comment.If you cannot see the link between the current profit based greed promoting system and the reasons to why the the situation of poverty within the world is the way it is..then it is you that does not understand the conditions and causes to the way things are.

[conquesimo]

This isn't an adequate forum to talk about theoretical ways to solve complex social problems. I was merely pointing out that your assumption as to the cause of poverty in the world is built upon a false premise. If you want to continually dodge this point by asking about my personal beliefs on theoretical ways to organize society, then there's no reason to carry on this dialog.

[deanjdk]

@conquesimo Hold on ..your stating that the way things are NOW is too far removed from what you deem a "real" freemarket to be...then i asked if you believed that the freemarket would produce the same results as this sytem has right now...and then you state im dodging your original post?Actually..its you that is dodging questions here.Ok..so you explain to me you opinion to why it is that poverty exists within economies instead of just stating im wrong.If i agree/disagree ill state why.

[BreakingTheBanality]

Peter Joseph has been invited to debate / discuss differences with Stefan Molyneux but declined.

[rcacad]

I think this guy would just ramble on and on and on and never really prove anything or say anything constructive or factual. He'll answer "your wrong, and ill tell you what i think" and never really say anything technical or real.

WHAT A FREEKIN WASTE OF TIME.

If I was at the pub and this guy was rambeling on about somthing, I wouldnt hesitate to ask him: whats the point, what do you mean, what are you getting at...

He is like Homer Simpsons dad telling a story about nothing for hours.

[Claytrainor]

@BreakingTheBanality

I would really enjoy that. I would even pay to see it. I think stef would be able to corner him quite nicely using the socratic method. Just my opinion, of course.

[Grunmurstraumr]

Well done! I'm really glad to see someone responding to this video by stefan. I had planned to do so myself ever since PJ mentioned it in a radioaddress but due to my EXTREMELY busy schedule I haven't had the time so far. anyway, great work!

[deanjdk]

thanks grunmurstraumr

[buzzmund]

just watched this again chief, great job, stefan molyneux hasnt got a leg to stand on

[Konban9vikar]

Awsome!

[Paddis92]

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." - Winston Churchill.

Watching this I just get the feeling that you're suck up everything that Zeitgeist Addendum has to say and then use those arguments against Stefan Molyneux. As for Stefan being ignorant, last I checked he had a Ph.D in history.

Now, I'm not trying to defend any side here, I'm just some things that I don't quite like out.

[deanjdk]

Well you see paddis92...i once believed in the monetary system until i came across information that showed me that it cannot work and therefore i changed my mind so your quote bears no relevance to me..Its not me in defense here its stefan molyneux.

So by your logic is stefan molyneux a fanatic of the monetary system?

[Paddis92]

No, what I'm saying is that I get the impression from this that you've accepted just about everything Zeitgeist Addendum teaches and then just repeat that. What Stefan Molyneux does however is to put forth arguments that he's more or less come up with himself. In theory what this means is that if you'd have a "live" debate with him, he'd most likely "win".

As for the quote, I tend to try to apply it to, in this situation, both this video and Stefan's. Why? Because, you're both sophisticated.

[deanjdk]

(part 1))Ok paddis92..you give me one argument that he has come up with himself.

I believe that his argument against the information in addendum is incorrect and makes no real sense and so i have addressed and stated WHY i believe this.

[deanjdk]

(part 2)His views on this are not exclusive to him..there are many people who put forward these irrational arguments.

And another thing.You believe that because he came up with his views himself that he would win a live debate???

[deanjdk]

(Part 3) Are you serious? so based on your logic if i came up with any notion by myself...its more likely to be true?

.Im addressing what he said using my own logic.I believe the information put forward in addendum to be more logical than the arguement made in his review.I have not transcribed anything from addendum

[rcacad]

Who Stefan win a debate? Impossible. While he makes some very loose and non specific assumptions about the films ideas, ive rarely ever heard any technical or real demonstration of anything he claims to be the contrary to the movie. He passes many thing off as "utter redicolous" and "retarded" and NEVER FREEKIN SAYS ANYTHING. I dont care what he believes- this is not a debate on faith. I want to know what he can prove or demonstrate. If he did, mabye we could agree. Nothing more than a nay sayer

[rcacad]

I wouldn't say so much. BUT for some reason he is continously trying to ill- logically defend it.....

[FutureSave]

Deanjdk - Thank you for this post because Mr Molyneux doesn't allow public comments on his Addendum 'Review'. He is so full of contradiction its difficult to know where to start. Perhaps the first thing he should do is look up a few dictionary definitions of what 'Profit' is - "Pecuniary gain resulting from the employment of capital in ANY transaction".

[taibshe]

excellent assessment here Deanjdk.

a comprehensive rebuttal of every unfounded claim mr molyneux makes. Even using his own words to point out the contradictions.

It should be clear to anyone now that he does not understand how unfair the system is today and that he also doesn't understand the venus project.

[deanjdk]

Thanks man

[blaziermissy]

I can't imagine not being able to discern the truth, given all the info that's out there.

When will our citizenry wake up? Don't they give a shit about the future of this planet which means the future of their children and the quality of their lives?

[blaziermissy]

Words really can't desribe what an excellent job you did with this. You presented the info well and tore Stefan and his "logic" apart thoroughly.

Thanks for all you're doing.

[deanjdk]

thanks blaziermissy,

I appriciate it

[blaziermissy]

Hi, I'm so glad you made these videos. Stephen Molyneux blocked me before I EVER commented on his videos.......lol......I can't imagine why.

Great work....really great work on your part showing what a symantic manipulator he is.

[Claytrainor]

meh, i lost faith in the zeitgeist cult a long time ago.

Say whatever you will about molyneux, he's an intelligent individual with some unique perspectives.

I personally don't trust any of the talking heads, and the zeitgeist pseudo-intellectual nutjobs, are the worst of 'em.

[deanjdk]

(Part 1)Ok Claytrainor,you explain to me how zeitgeist is a cult.Ironically the zeitgeist movement is the only attempt to explain CULTure that iv seen and advocates the understanding and thus irradication of such inherited unquestioned beliefs as religion,patriotism and all other seperational,destructive trains of CULTural thought.Stefan Molyneux may be intellectual but he is completely contradictory in what he advocates and unfortunetly alot of people will side with his beliefs based..........

[deanjdk]

(part 2)on apparent intelligence.Also another ironic point to make,,,you say you dont trust any of the talking heads and neither do i, Molyneux included.If you looked into the zeitgeist idea you would understand that it advocates questioning and true logic in EVERY area of life.

[deanjdk]

(part 3)So please explain your views on the consequences of the monetary system on the environment,on the 1.4 billion people BORN into poverty,on the psychological impact of a profit based system and its consequences.Lets hear your logical conclusions to why things are the way they are claytrainor

[Claytrainor]

lol, Zeitgeist followers are emotional, arrogant little fuckers, that think they've found the magic key

haha wow, my little observation inspired you to rant 3 comments, mostly about things i didn't even bring up?

How insecure are you? I don't trust molyneux any more than the zeitgeist dudes.

I've learned not to waste my time with intellectual arrogance a long time ago Good luck with your movement, as long as your not forceful in your approach to society, i will never object to your goals.

[deanjdk]

Firstly..theres nothing emotional in my comments.I merely asked you to explain your reasoning..which..you still have not.

Secondly..everything i said is related to your comment

Thirdly..in a few sentences you have more or less inadvertently labelled me as emotional,arrogant and insecure with no basis to your claims at all.

You state youve learned not to waste your time with "intellectual arrogance".If that is what you call it..then why are you commenting on or even watching any of this.

[Claytrainor]

I did not watch your video, i did not watch molyneux's review,  I should not have commented, and i do not wish to engage you in debate.

You can go ahead and declare yourself a victory. :-)

Good Luck

[FutureSave]

You're right you should not have commented if you didn't want to open your ungrounded comments like "Zeitgeist pseudo-intellectual nutjobs" to public scrutiny!