I wanted to post this very important video here so everyone can see it. Obesity CAN occur with no change at all in intake or activity. See here : watch?v=vxSAhLyKVqw&feature=related
The simplistic and erroneous caloric hypothesis has been completely debunked.
People: Do not let the $ 100 billion dollar commercial diet industry take advantage of you anymore. They exist on a bunchh of lies, complete misinformation and assumptions.
Cushing's Disease is rare, but it does illustrate how haywire hormones, rather than overeating or lack of exercise as postulated by the Caloric Hypothesis, can cause obesity.
A likely far more common cause of obesity is excessive sugar intake. Elevated blood sugar stimulates the overproduction of insulin, which, like cortisol, is a hormone which regulates fat cell behavior.
Diet cannot be completely disconnected from obesity; but what we eat is probably more important than how much.
I have come to view obesity as a very complex disease condition: the body is awry, thrown off by... well, there are a great many causes, only some of which are understood at all by medical science. That will change; research will eventually nail down most of them, and effective treatments will probably arrive eventually, too.
Any disease is bad; but I think human intolerance and hatred are pretty horrible in their own right. Those need a cure, too.
Thank you for this video. I am very overweight due to a thyroid disease. I eat healthy and love to exercise, but my hypothyroidism makes me gain weight and struggle to lose it. people are so mean. its not something i can control and i dont like being judged for it.
You can control some of the variables which contribute to your weight, makennnzieee, and it sounds as if you're doing what you can with diet and exercise. (Make sure you get plenty of sleep, too, it helps.)
But there are indeed variables you cannot control: genetics, diseases, toxic exposures, necessary prescription drugs, even food choices your mother made when you were just a fetus can play a role today.
Do the best you can; and recognize that those who judge you are deeply ignorant.
Leprosy is a disease. If a person doesn't get up and move and watch their diets that is laziness. Parents who allow their children to become porkers should be beat. It is child abuse to allow them to be FAT. And an employer shouldn't have to be forced to higher a person you know is going to be far less productive than a person of normal size. I have worked with smokers and fat people, it sucks! Always making f---ing excuses. Why you need to do their work.
Did you know that the incidence of obesity is rising even among infants?
The Caloric Hypothesis which you are promoting is in its death throes. It has no predictive value.
Fat cells are regulated by hormones. Disregulation of fat cells is a disease state.
Incidentally, if you have never known lazy thin people or hard-working fat people, then you haven't been paying attention. Humans are far more varied than your preconceived notions could ever admit.
Infant obesity is occurring because diabetes is on the rise,they are linked.Also vitamins have contributed to as well. And the fact the woman's metabolite rate on average has fallen, which affects the infant. No FAT is not a disease but a condition. After birth the infant should have a proper diet!!! Not hotdogs in front of a TV!!! And I am in the work force and FAT people just like smokers seldom pull their own weight!And statistics argue against your statement for obesity.
"Obesity is not a simple condition of eating too much". Well said. Someone needs to tell the scamming Internet diet gurus this. I hope all the viewers will get the message out that obesity research is ongoing and we have so much more to learn about this complicated condition. Awesome video, Urgelt. ;) :)
sir with all due respect i feel ur pain. but a word of advice, stop depending on society to change or doctors to fix you, the way to a healthy, happy life is to take control of everything urself and live the nature way. the only alternative is being is the situation ur in now, overweight , depressed, and blaming people. Choose life brother, its all good over here
I'm speaking to the need for civility and tolerance here, and the need to abandon oversimplistic explanations where science has shown they aren't warranted. I'm not speaking to my own personal circumstances.
thanks Urget for the kind word. When i started as a kid I was a little heavy but the constant ridiculed for my parents, teachers, and other children was more than i could mental bare. I used to come home from school and sleep four hours every night and then go back to bed. At 35 nothing much as changed people still try to micromanage my eating habits and I still don't care because most of them are so hypocritical. The last time my doctor asked for my calorie chart I said you first doc
Most doctors are operating under the assumption that the caloric hypothesis is valid and that people choose to be obese.
I'm afraid that nothing more clearly illustrates that medicine is a field more of dogma than of science. Nobody who is carefully tracking the work of scientific researchers in this field could come to that conclusion.
I look forward to the day when medicine catches up to what research scientists already know. Obesity is a failure of fat cell regulation with many causes.
I think we should have every right to discriminate against people who make poor choices, like obesity or smoking. Nobody chooses to be black or born with a disability. It's a completely different ballpark.
This conclusion is much easier to reach if you completely ignore everything science has turned up on the subject of obesity.
I've never understood the eagerness with which many people ignore scientific evidence. But many do, and speaking of what science has found cannot sway their viewpoint.
@Urgelt I can understand that a very small percentage of people are obese for genetic reasons, but we can't have a genetic epidemic. Obesity as a "disease" is invented by the industry to sell pharmaceuticals and to distract attention away from the real cause of obesity: poor choices (and to a smaller extent social pressure to eat poorly). If people suddenly realized that 99.9% of all cases of obesity were caused by food, the food industry would implode overnight. That's why it isn't mainstream.
Yet scientists have discovered a couple dozen genes which correlate strongly to obesity, and they're likely to discover more.
I think what this is telling us is that the playing field is not level. People with some combinations of these genes are more vulnerable to developing obesity in conjunction with other factors. There are a *lot* of other factors which scientists have correlated positively to obesity. Let me run down a partial list.
Possibly the most important is food. The uninformed tend to think of food as merely calories, an energy source to keep the body going. This isn't accurate at all. Each cell in your body needs a plethora of nutrients to be healthy. When you don't get those nutrients, you're hungry and unhealthy. Obesity and emaciation both correlate strongly to malnutrition - both unhealthy states.
The food industry pays little attention to nutrition; they're after a buck. This is a problem for us.
Gut bacteria varies across populations, and which gut bacteria a person has can strongly influence whether he is obese (and also influences insulin resistance). In science, this is considered "breaking news," meaning research on this has only just begun in the past few years, and the process of identifying which bacterial strains do what is ongoing.
Bacterial cross-infections might help explain family and acquaintanceship trends in obesity.
Other influences which can't be ruled out as factors (yet) include toxins in food, water, air, and consumer products, which can harm metabolic functions in thousands of ways, among them hormone-mimicking chemicals which can directly affect receptors on the surface of fat cells and cause them to change behaviors; and infectious diseases, which may also affect fat cell behavior. These are only examples. There are vast unknowns in this field of research.
The message from the food industry is actually quite consistent. They insist that one chooses to be fat, or chooses not to be fat. It's the patient's fault. This lets the food industry off the hook. They can sell whatever they like, and if it makes people sick and fat, it's the consumer's fault.
That's not the message from science, and you can recognize genuine scientists in the field very easily. Genuine researchers acknowledge uncertainty. The truth is, we're still figuring this out.
Many people with obesity can be controlled. I know there are many who can't do it due to some of the adenovirus 36 now that has been discovered. That makes this a new condition--it's a virus and a chronic disease process. I hope for the many who can control it, gets it right. For all of those who are fat or obese--I hope we'll change our laws and our feelings
This is the product of teasing, of inflicted shame and emotional abuse, and of the general public's ignorant belief that obesity is simple and that the playing field is level.
A similar dynamic is at work in anorexics, who often cannot bear the thought of eating in public. Or bulemics, who hide their disgorgement of food. All three categories of illness produce these behaviors due to perceived stigma.
There is no evidence that stigma produces any positive result whatsoever.
Maybe that because people are questioning them about it all the time. Worse, people will take it upon themselves to actually start telling you what you should eat, without you asking.
How would you like it if a random stranger started questioning you about your food habits, or any other habits they have no business with?
Generally, overweight people know quite well which foods are fat or unhealthy, but putting it into practice is not the same as the theory.
I love it when some skinny-ass ape tells me to "Go on a diet! Lose some weight" As if they've been there themselves!! I tried dieting once, and I lost weight, but I sacrificed a lot of other health issues too. So I said never again!! I'm healthy, I walk 3 miles daily, and I do it without losing my breath. I don't go to fast food restaurants at all, and I really don't eat that much. I'm OK with who I am.
Heath should be the first priority, always. Good for you.
Your story reminds me of remarks made by Dr. Stephan Guyenet about body fat set points. He's neurobiologist and researcher, not part of the diet industry. I suspect you might enjoy reading his blog or listening to interviews he's given. You can find him through Google.
one job i had all the guys i work with would go out after work for drinks and the whole year i worked there i wasn't invited once
one time at that same job it was my break time and this guy came to cover my break, i went to the back to get my purse and he basically walked away and i had to work another 20 mins until he came back, he didn't tell me where he went or why he just left and when he came back he didn't look me in the eye or show sympathy
Some of these anecdotes may illustrate a more general indifference and cruelty which humans often express towards each other. Our society is full of it.
Selfishness, venality, cruelty, injustice, hatred - these are well-used words in our language for a reason. The targets are often obese, or women, or minorities, but they can just as easily be anyone.
Reforming a society isn't easy. But it is wise to remember that every one of us contributes to the whole. It starts with the self.
i was at a store one time, the only girl and there were a lot of guys, the store worker guy asked us to put up tall the chairs on the table. i didn't because there were enough guys there so they didn't need my help, the store worker/owner guy yelled at me twice saying that i had to lift the chairs too (even though i was 17 and tehre were more than enough guys there and the chairs were light and i didn't even work at the store)
I got a "satisfactory" score on a performance appraisal at work 3 years in a row and when i asked what i could do to get a higher score they told me to do things outside of my job title.
people at stores don't talk much to me and they rarely look me in the eye
guy tellers or cashiers are nice to women infront of me in line but when i get up they act indifferent or treat me like a guy
1. i wore a perfume one day and this guys stopped and complimented my friend who was walking with me on her perfume (she wasn't wearing any it was me)
2. i was at a bar with 2 friends and when the bartender came over to us, he got both of them drinks and assumed i wasn't with them
3. i have had teachers give me c's or b's and when i ask them what could i have done to make the essay a better grade they don't have an actual answer, they just tell me "this essay is not the whole grade"
If you're fat, you just eat too much. This is the plain and simple truth. This video should be required viewing for all fat people. "How To Be Slim" right here on YouTube.
Guys like Gary Taubes should not have best sellers. Guys like Alan Aragon , Dr. Gergory Ellis are full of sound information. These men understand energy balance. What other solution is there for obesity currently other than to eat less I ask you, Mr Urgelt? That video's information could solve obesity.
Dirk, you still have not responded to the question I posed to you, so I'll repeat it: how do you explain lipodystrophy? This is a disease condition in which both severe emaciation and obesity manifest in the same patient. Is the patient supposed to eat less for just part of his body?
You need to understand that the behavior of fat cells is regulated in a healthy person. It can become disregulated: this is a disease state. A poor diet can produce this effect, but so can other influences.
You seem determined to oversimplify: calories, and only calories, matter. This view ignores virtually the entire body of research into obesity. It is more often a disease state associated with malnutrition than with abundance.
Worse, your view that "counting calories" is the solution completely ignores nutrition. Let me remind you that poor nutrition *is* malnutrition. Eating the wrong foods *will* lead to problems, and obesity is one of them.
Im 5 ft 1 inch and i wiegh 170 lbs i got ignored because i wanted to be waited on at a store and was descriminated against because the guy helped a skinny blond chick and i was ahead of her.
18%? Almost every MD I've ever seen has immediately blamed any condition I have on weight, even sore throats and ear infections. One GP actually refused to set my broken toe "until [my] weight was at a less dangerous level". I'm 180lbs.
I usually get a nice food chart as a parting gift. Guess what? Unless you've spent every day of your adult life adding calories & fatgrams, and never missed a day of exercise -- if you've ever been able to eat without feeling bad, you don't get to judge me.
Most doctors need to come to realize: their conception of obesity fails to take into account a whole lot of very good science about the disorder. Because of that, their treatments generally fail. Blaming the patient doesn't make things better. It makes things worse.
Obesity is a disease condition. The disease should be fought, like any disease. But not with prejudice or hate, and not with "blame the patient."
So, Mr. Urgelt, to be clear you are saying that calories in/calories out is all wrong? You are saying that anyone who evokes thermodynamics in an obesity discussion has no idea what they are talking about and that fat loss is a hormonal/chemical process, and not energy balance?
I'm saying the Caloric Model is much, much too simplistic.
And yes, I'm saying that anyone who invokes the laws of thermodynamics in a discussion about obesity is taking the laws out of context and attempting to oversimplify a very complex phenomenon.
Funny thing. Actual biologists aren't much into oversimplifying a physiological phenomenon. Mostly where it happens is in the pro-dieting industry, where proponents have a financial stake in the conclusions drawn.
A calorie is a unit of heat used in physics. It has everything to do with how much energy is liberated from *burning* a substance. It has very, very little to do with biological processes, which do not involve combustion.
The Caloric Model is a 60-year-old rough analogy. It considers food for its combustive chemical energy and ignores what actually happens to food molecules in the body.
Overeating is bad, of course. But the phenomenon of obesity is far more complex than you will admit.
Alan Aragon has wonderful articles completely discrediting Gary Taubes and Dr. Robert Lustig, who by the way did a very poor job defending himself to Alan. Please give it a read Mr. Urgelt. If you have a positive energy baance you will gain fat even in the presence of low insulin levels. Taubes' nonsense has been discredited.
There is no other way to lose fat other than an energy imbalance. As far as the rats, again, altering intestinal flora changes the calories being absored.The energy balance model is not static remember.
The rat study does not at all contradict the energy balance concept. Everything Taubes claims can be explained by the energy balance theory. Doubly labelled water confirms Taubes is wrong about calories. Taubes makes assumptions and uses field data.
Mr. Urgelt , The laws of thermodynamics apply to open systems too. I strongly suggest you familairize yourself with the writings of Jamie Hale and Alan Aragon. You will see clearly how Taubes' is a charalatan.
The laws of thermodynamics apply to open systems too. Gary Taubes tells fat people what they want to hear. He is full of it. No calorie deficit, no fat loss. That is the truth.
Hormones can bark orders all day, they need substrate to create fat mass.
The question isn't whether the laws of thermodynamics apply to humans. The question is whether we can infer from those laws the behavior of mammalian fat cells.
Turns out there's much more complexity involved.
Thermodynamics requires that energy is conserved in the system, and it is. But whether lipids are stuffed into fat cells, processed to extract chemical energy, or simply eliminated as waste isn't predicted by those laws. Those things are governed by other variables.
There is not a shred of data that contradicts the concept of energy balance and bodyweight......not a single study. If changes in bodyweight were the result of something other than energy balance, this would mean the laws of thermodynamics would be violated. Think about it for a second. If "caloriesin/calories out" was not true, that would imply that fat tissue could be created form nothing, or that fat tissue could disappear into thin air( without any production of heat or energy).
There's lots and lots of evidence demonstrating that lipid storage and release in fat cells is governed by signaling chemicals. Insulin is one of them. This is not seriously disputed in science.
The behavior of fat cells is also regulated by genetics, and (probably) affected by hormone-mimicking chemicals which enter our bodies, and by variations in gut flora among individuals, and by disease states.
How does your understanding of the Caloric Model illuminate lipodystrophy, I wonder?
There is nothing wrong with the caloric model. Everything that Gary Taubes says is "wrong" with it is based on misinterpretation or an incomplete presentation of the existing scientific data. If someone gains weight they are consuming more claories than they are expending. There is no other way around it. That is basic thermodynamics.
Dr. George Bray, a real obesity expert, is very critical of Gary Taubes' nonsense.
I find Taubes useful, but his arguments are not always scientific. And in any event, he is a science journalist, not a scientist. It's perfectly ok to listen to what he says, another thing altogether to ascribe to him omniscience on this subject. I do not.
Your "basic thermodynamics" argument only works in a closed system, and mixes up E=MC^2 in a way Einstein wouldn't forgive. Humans are not closed systems, and no caloric energy is being turned into matter in a human.
I don't think you are understanding what I am saying about the rats. When intestinal microflora is changed so is the absorbtion of calories. "Energy in" does not mean whatever you put in your mouth. It refers to what energy is metabolised. For example fiber does not count towards "energy in" because your body cannot metabolise fiber.
Actually, "energy metabolized" is on the output side of your equation, not the input side.
Soluable fiber is metabolized. Only insoluable fiber is not.
Food is not merely "chemical energy." It's building materials, too - the molecular components of cells.
The primary sins of the Caloric Model are that it attempts to posit a closed system where none exists, it oversimplifies, and it does not attempt to explain many, many observations. Ignoring evidence is a good way to get a theory killed.
If you think weight can increase wihtout an energy surplus, that means you need to explain how tissue mass can be created without any energy input. Essentially you are saying here that thermodynamics can be violated......something for which you do not have any evidence to support. To lose fat you must create a calorie deficit. To gain fat you must have a positive energy balance. There is no other way to lose fat.
Nonsense. The laws of thermodynamics are not violated by acknowledging that in the nonclosed system which is a mammal, how fat cells behave is governed by chemical signals - from hormones and food substances - and by states of disease and genetics.
To lose fat, fat cells must be made to disgorge themselves of their excess lipid molecules and allow the body to eliminate them as waste. Saying this does not violate the Laws of Thermodynamics.
None of this contradicts the energy balance concept. The obese eat more than the lean. This has been proven by the use of doubly labeled water. As far as rats, you are ignoring the energy out part of the equation. You are also ignoring the fact that changing the intestinal microflora changes the amount of energy absorbed in the digestive tract, which alters the "energy in" part of the equation. Calories in/calories out.
I like your idea of more needs to be done on trying to find the chemical and biolocial factors that cause obesity. I know there is also a lot of psychological factors too.
I like your way of thinking.
annoyed though now...because youtube brought back this shitty layout. ARRRRRRRRR!!!!
Yeah. Comments are particularly messed up - no dates, and organization is horrible. And the video text block is all but vanished. I *used* the text block. Arrrrgh.
Mental health is a factor in many cases of obesity, sure. But not all.
I think within 10 years or so, we'll see a new class of drugs for obesity which directly signal fat cells and regulate their behavior. But we'll still need to eat well to be physiologically healthy. Nutrition will always matter.
It was cruelty that prompted me to make the video. Not cruelty directed at me - I wasn't obese.
I'm certainly not an expert in nutrition, but I think nutrition has a big role to play in achieving health. But to get there, we have to stop looking at food as calories, and start thinking of it as building blocks for cells, whose needs are both broad and complex. Any deficiency translates into malnutrition; malnutrition is linked very strongly to obesity.
@Urgelt You still should never point the finger at someone else for your obesity. You do an you are not helping yourself. You are actually harming yourself. Now to prevent obesity, it is very simple. 1. Dont trust diet pills. 2. Monitor your weight 3. count calories 4. eat fruits and vegetables 5. exercise 6. dont over endulge in snacks. 7. weight watch rather then diet You cant think "it is hard to be in good shape" you need to think "Yes, I can do this!" Most important thing is health
How did my own weight get into this discussion? And who exactly do you think I'm blaming?
I don't disapprove of your list, particularly, though I think it's not nearly long enough. For example, if you restrict calories but include large amounts of sugar or fructose in your diet, you will have big problems with weight control. Fructose also can damage your liver. This isn't so much a concern when eating natural fruits which include plenty of fiber, but it is otherwise.
I'd also like to know how your advice changes for people who must take drugs which increase their weight, and people who suffer from chronic diseases which inhibit exercise.
Simple answers are not always the right ones. In the case of obesity, if the simple answers worked, we'd not have the problems with it we do in our society.
But I'll give you credit for not recommending dieting. Temporary caloric restriction is useless. We probably agree that lifestyle changes are the main hope.
I think they are obeying biological instincts far deeper than mere prejudice.
It's perfectly natural for women to prefer some qualities over others. Men, too. That's the nature of the mating dance: selecting traits that will confer advantage in offspring.
Obesity signals ill health. Not a desirable quality to most.
I suspect there are women to whom it's not very important, though. Your options are to find one, or seek a solution to your health problem and broaden your options.
Well the reason I say dont blame others is because when you put the blame on someone else you take the responsibility away from yourself. And when I say "you" I mean that in the general term.
Now people with chronic illnesses that prevent them from exerciizing who need to take medication and it makes them gain weight, for them to keep fit is harder but not impossible, however it is a bit over my head. I will google it later.
I dont dislike overweight or obese people, what I do(cont.)
I'm not assigning blame to anyone. I am pointing out that the caloric model doesn't explain observed data. It's a failed model.
We need a better understanding of obesity than we currently have. I think the key will be found in fat cell regulation/disregulation. Foods, diseases, toxins, hormones, hormone-mimickers, intestinal flora, exercise... they all play into how fat cells are regulated. If they get too many signals to hoard lipid molecules, that's what they're going to do.
A lot of meds, deseases and even a virus have been linked to weight gain. People are so quick to be hateful when it's a heavy person. what about skinny people that eat and eat and still can't gain weight. Do these same people say "it's your own fault you stupid skeleton. If only you'd eat." You people can choose to be bad people if you want, but bigotry, hatred and intollerence is just plain wrong. If something inside you doesn't tell you that, then there is something wrong with you.
You are right, Urgelt, as far as the Western culture and our diets. The problem is not that it is a disease. Obesity rates were not as high 50 years ago as they are now, therefore saying its a disease is an excuse to cover up the real issue which is the lack of willpower. Eating processed foods are known for many health deficits which lead to disease. I am not lucky enough to have good genetics so I don't eat fast-food, I prepare my own, I exercise,...
...I especially stay away from drugs as they cause more damage than good. The point is there is no real excuse for the rates of obesity. Neither is there one to show such merciless active discrimination. to me it's the lack of self control that sickens me not just obesity alone.
The American diet is a diet of malnourishment. Obesity and malnutrition go hand-in-hand. It's not simply lack of self-control; it's deeper than that.
Americans are generally ignorant about what they should be eating, and swayed by advertising to make poor choices. Government isn't helping much, since their recommendations are heavily influenced by the food lobby.
We must get past condemning obese people and start addressing root causes, I believe.
Obesity is preventable. Eat healthy and exercize. Dont rely on the government to help you, they dont care about you.. And there is an easy way to find out the right way to eat and exercize, it is called google.
Now when someone is obese, they still can loose weight, but it is harder for them physically and psychologically to loose it. But if they should never point their finger at someone else for their obesity, it was all them. 100% them.
I'd like to invite you to look deeper, Toad, as I have tried to do.
Obesity is difficult to treat - in part because there are many factors involved which aren't addressed in treatment regimes. Science is uncovering more of these factors every year. Not all of these factors are under personal control. Most people aren't aware that this is happening in science; they cling to old conceptions.
I've talked about some of these factors in the video and in comments; I'll spare you a repetition.
Another datum is that obesity is statistically associated with poverty and even starvation - situations where an individual has less, not more, control over what he consumes. When we think of starvation, we automatically conjure up images of skeletally-thin people, but the incidence of obesity *rises* under those conditions. A lot.
Yet another datum is laboratory evidence that on a fixed diet, thin sterile rats given transfused intestinal flora from fat rats become fat.
We also know that hormones affect the behavior of fat cells - their tendency to store or release lipid molecules. And the sites where fat deposition occurs is differentiated, too - which tells us that in a single person, some fat cells are behaving differently than other fat cells.
The behavior of fat cells is key. They are regulated by signalling chemicals. Their regulation is complex - and can go awry, resulting in a disease state. Overeating is just one of the ways this can happen.
And you can't tell by looking at a person what factors contributed to his obesity. Nor do doctors have good tools yet by which to diagnose those factors. Obesity is a disease for which we do not yet have good diagnostics or treatments.
The simplistic caloric model of obesity which you believe in isn't supported by the evidence being turned up by science. A more nuanced understanding is needed, not only by doctors but the general public.
well, considering I got rocks thrown at me in 7th grade because of that, I SHOULD use a harsher word....I just choose not to say exactly what I think it was...discrimination is exactly what it is....-_- prejuduce bastards
what I do dislike is overweight or obese people that will blame the fast food or some diet that didnt work, or diet pills that didnt work, and always blame someone else and think they are a victum who needs to do nothing.
I dislike them because they are killing themselves and they wont open their eyes and see it.
When they dont take responsibility for their own health they depend on others to do it for them. Now there are some who have no choice, but many dont but act like it
It's not an either-or proposition. Physiology is tons more complex than that.
Dietary choices play into it. So does availability of healthy foods - which we've screwed up in Western culture over the past century. But there are factors completely beyond the control of individuals at work, too - genetics, diseases, toxic exposures, and prescription drugs being examples.
In other words, it's not a level playing field, and pretending otherwise is just another form of thoughtless prejudice.
Beautiful. I've been waiting for someone to come along and speak to this acceptable form of prejudice. Any idea where I can find more like-minded people? Would like to start the notion of change
I have spoken my opinion here, but I would be misleading you to say that I'm any sort of activist. I'm not connected to any organization promoting this view.
You might look into The Obesity Society (Google for web site). My impression is that they are actively supporting many obesity-related efforts, including medical research and social reforms.
If you decide to advocate for tolerance, be prepared to take some heat. As we saw with the Civil Rights movement, resistance will be fierce.
It seems to me that there are two sorts of people in this world.
One sort is curious, and looks for evidence upon which to base their opinions.
The other sort is incurious, and is comfortable making declarations without regard for evidence at all.
Science is a good place to find evidence. If you aren't looking at science, I think it's fair to say you are devoid of curiosity and deaf to persuasion.
are u telling me we should blame science for fat people, dont blame being fat on other people, nobody likes fat people much because there greedy, and before you say you dont know any i blates do
I suggested reading science to gain insight into the phenomenon of obesity. If you do, you will discover that the stereotype you hold dear is far too simplistic to describe reality.
As I was growing up in the early 80's, my mother was a stay at home mom. She always cooked for us, only about 3 times a year she would buy us a burger from McDonalds.
Those were the days, getting a Big Mac was a huge deal back then, I would brag about it to my cousins and friends that mom tooks us to eat at McDEEs. We were all skinny, even mom & dad. Nowadays I see kids that eat McDees every single day. Easy food, to hard working parents. I blame the franchise business, along w/ busy parents.
Oh obsoletely, the answers to obesity will not take days, months, or even years to figure out. The question is, what is causing obesity in our country? What is the diffrence between, women from now, and 50 years ago?
I'm not sure. I think bad food has a great deal to do with it. Advertising, too, which convinces us to eat it. They've gotten awfully slick at the advertising game.
But we also live in a much more toxic world than our great-grandparents did. Many are exotic toxins poorly studied and poorly understood. What are they doing to our bodies and our minds? Nobody really has a handle on it.
It's impossible to rule out infectious diseases, either. We know so little about the relationship between pathogens and fat cells. People who lived mostly in small farming communities and didn't travel much are a far cry from the globe-trotting world of today; nondeadly pathogens circulate ferociously now. What are they doing to us?
It could be a combination of those factors, or there may be still other factors involved. I'm not going to draw too hasty a conclusion; but I think the place to start repairing the damage is food choices.
You have to be careful, though.
Lard and butter were the cooking oils of choice 75 years ago, and few people were fat. But if you buy lard today, you may end up with hydrogenated lard, which is very, very bad. And butter is usually produced with hormones that weren't used 75 years ago.
Have you seen the movie WALL-E? That is the future, of this country. Everything has change, nothing we consume is natural, starting w/ eggs, milk, beef, poultry, soft drinks, candy, milk shakes,pizza, burgers, ect... I can go on and on. I have a 6 yrs old and he is one of the thin ones, but that boy does not want to eat anything green. Oh it's a battle everyday to make him eat something healthy. All he wants is candy!
Do a choice for inetrnational obesity rates on google and notice the rates of our closest neighbor Canada.. how can this disparity in percentage be anything but lifestyle choice? There may be some gene differences in racial demographics but HALF?? Its our fast food nation status.. Also do you realize that the only state that REQUIRES PE is Illinois? I guess since we dont know who is an apple and an orange we should not judge anybody.. but wow how about some personal control?
Somewhere down the line (often middle school and late elementary), the wrong choices are made.. and body chemistry get set (this is how obesity takes root).. Now it may be true that kids shuldn't be held accountable for poor CHOICES, but try explaining that to mother nature.
There is no single cause. In many or most individuals, obesity is the product of multiple factors.
I truly hope you do not have the need, at some point during your life, to take an obesity-causing prescription drug. (There are dozens on the market.) But if you do, you will rapidly discover just how simplistic your current opinion is - and how inadequate. And that's just one factor beyond individual choice; there are many others.
I have just figure out what is happening to our discussion. We are comparing apples and oranges. Apples: people with conditions such as cushing and other physiological problems. Oranges: people who overeat and have damaged their body chemistry. The problem is that it seems that far too many obese people put themselves in the Apple catagory by self diagnosis, thus giving themeselves a 'way out'.. I have personally trained hundreds of people in my profession that have overcome thier obesity status
Consider: we would not have a SINGLE obese person in the US if everyone ate at their BMR and exercised 1/2 a day at just a moderate pace.. It would be a physiological impossibility.. (I challenge you to explain how the body can add weight in caloric deficit)..
You've accurately expressed the Caloric Hypothesis view which is current medical dogma.
I invite you to Google "Big Fat Lies." You'll find a video by award-winning science journalist Gary Taubes, in which he casts doubt on this hypothesis.
The truth is the hypothesis is far, far too simple to explain the available evidence.
I've also furnished many factors which contribute to obesity which have nothing to do with personal choice, here in the comments.
I am certain that if I escalted my caloric intake to 5-10K calories per day and was senditay I would unlock and develope my "obesity gene'. why should some be allowed to do this and not others? Europeans laugh at our XXL sized clothes.. and super sized soft drinks. Discrimination may be a social control mechanism. One last thing. I KNOW that fit workers are more roductive than unfit. That is why so many companies have sucessful wellness programs.. sorry to be a word hog.. :>
There are many, many factors which can produce obesity which have nothing to do with choices people make. I've talked about these factors elsewhere in these comments; I won't repeat myself here.
I've supervised fit workers who produced less, obese workers who produced more. And the reverse, too. I've learned not to judge performance based on weight. So should we all.
Cont.. now nobody should be teased or harrased.. but it may be a function of a collective social conscience that leads people to criticize a condtion that can be controlled. A condition of over-indulgance that perhaps is at the top of our problem with sky roocketing health care-- the top two killers in the US are linked to obesity cancer- and CVD. Maybe we are battleing (as a society) with how to deal with those who do NOT keep there 'weight genes' under control and put a strain on our society..
Urgelt- Thank you for presenting this issue- and representing your logic very well (as always! :>) I ask you to consider this inclusion. Race, Gender, one can not control. The PATH to obesity you most certainly can. Granted by the time somebody has 35% body fat, body chemistry has changed and it is very hard to combat and it has progressed to a disability. But BEFORE this happens lifestyle choices can be made to mitigate against the process. This perhaps is why people react so unfavorably..
I have to repsectfully disagree, urgelt. Rather than being founded on prejudice, my conclusions are founded on common sense and economics.
SOME women do, indeed, work harder, I agree. But as a general rule, they do not.
now, how do I know this? Simple. IF they indeed were as productive, and also accepted their 75% relative wage, savvy firms would get rid of the 'overpaid' men and solely employ the equally productive, less paid women. Who in their right mind would waste money on men?
You then go one to say ' if you pay according to performance'...
well then theres no beef, and we wholly agree. The problem is, introducing legislation that forces firms to pay the less productive an equal amount, merely because of their weight, is unfair, counterproductive, and unconstitutional.
Firms should not have to pay the less productive the same amount. That lost wealth just makes society as a whole that much poorer.
Eh, you presume, Muffy, as do most economists, that markets are rational.
That is the most absurd assumption in academia. But let's set that aside.
I agree that the solution is not to have the government set salaries for jobs. Or to pay everyone the same regardless of productivity.
We need a path for remedy, though, when people are paid unfairly, relative to peers, for reasons having nothing to do with their performance. Legislation creating that path is appropriate.
Although I love this video.. and I agree with the point.. But.. is obesity a disease? (I apologize if there was any spelling mistakes in this comment)
Urgelt your heart is in the right place for sure. I agree crualty is not the answer,but the doctors know with obesety @ also depression the more sympathy that is given the more obese @ depressed the paitent becomes just to get more attention,@ more drugs.
Interesting hypothesis. I haven't seen any studies which test it.
But I'm not arguing for sympathy. I'm arguing against cruelty. I think there is a difference between the two concepts.
I'm asking that you treat obese persons as you would treat anyone else - within certain limits. Obviously, you don't need to hire them to do a job they cannot do. And you don't have to prefer their body type in a partner. Otherwise, just treat them as people. That's what they are.
The epidemic of obesity is new to our society, and I think we aren't sure how to combat it quite yet. The problem with discriminating against overweight people is that it detracts from the efforts made by others who choose to try and find solutions to this problem.
Beyond this, all humans deserve respect and dignity. I'd bet that most of the people doing the discriminating have never had weight issues. It seems ridiculous to make judgements on a situation you've never been a part of.
True to much hate and not enough support in love. Sexuality is judged on weight as an example. Stereotypes are foolish.
There are some reasons why the body doesn't look or act the same as an everyone thing. People are to concerned with how they look and not how healthy they are. The first step in being healthy starts in the mind. Love does bring better health than hate.
People are sexually attracted to the traits which turn them on. I don't think that can be changed, and I would never condemn someone for preferring specific physical traits, and for acting on those preferences in mate selection.
But I draw the line at the expression of cruelty. For that, there is no excuse.
True. Can't be helped in what people are going to conform or be an individual on believing. Doesn't hurt to keep an open mind. Human rights are so important not just for others, but for our personal being. Agreed.
So, This "disease" has been around for how long exactly? The sky rocketing numbers of the millions becoming obese has no correlation to the rapid expanse of western greed and decadence? While I admit people may be genetically disposed of maintaining a certain weight, people DO NOT put on weight because of their genes. I find it strange how this "disease" doesn't affect any African, Asian or middle-eastern nations in the way that America, UK and other Euro Nations have encountered...
Malnutrition and weight disorders (both obesity and skeletal thinness) are well correlated in human populations. Have been since long before the boom in obesity in Western nations.
Malnutrition, you know, is not a disease of inadequate calories. It's a disease of inadequate nutrients.
Science has been steadily turning up new physiological factors: pathogenic, genetic, drugs, hormone-mimicking toxins, gut flora, none of them behavioral. The picture that emerges is of a physiological phenomenon, not a behavioral one: the dis-regulation of fat cells by adverse factors, predominantly, but by no means exclusively, industrialized foods which are lacking in nutrients needed for regulation of fat cells.
None of which is to say that you cannot become obese by deliberately overeating. But the old paradigm of treating obesity as a behavioral disorder is falling on hard times in science. As a hypothesis, it's got very little evidence supporting it. As a basis for generating therapies, it has failed.
I'm sorry, but the comment "industrialized foods which are lacking in nutrients needed for regulation of fat cells" is in itself physiological, but the driving factor is actually behavioural. You can't honestly say that if people ate the right foods and got the correct amount of nutrients and calories that they would STILL get fat!? All the points you make about, all do result in obesity, but all of which can be altered on a behavioural level if people just CHOOSE the right food.
The hypothesis you are advocating doesn't hold up to an examination of the evidence.
Rather than repeat myself, I will invite you to read through the comments for many examples of nonbehavioral factors which have been found to affect lipid cycling in fat cells.
I'll also invite you to Google "Gary Taubes." Near the top of the list of links, you'll find a video which explains many of the ways in which the caloric/behavioral hypothesis fails. It's just too simplistic and explains too little.
Taubes, by the way, is a science writer for the peer-reviewed journal "Science."
Pay particular attention to the photos of victims of lipodystrophy which Mr. Taubes shows.
Fat accumulates differentially in all obese persons; cells in some regions more than in others. In lipodystrophy the tendency is most pronounced. Looking at those photos, it's impossible to escape the conclusion that differential accumulation of fat cannot be explained by total caloric intake.
Well maybe the ones lacking self-esteem and full of narrow-mindedness(which compromises the majority), but I can get by just fine without caring what someone thinks I look like. Personally my desire for staying thin is a personal one, for my health is more important to me than impressing people. If I get positive attention from my peers, well that's just a bonus. Anyways I won't believe what you say until I see some peer-reviewed studies on the topic, I suggest you return the favor.
It's easy enough to find peer-reviewed studies which demonstrate the complexity of the disease. Browse through the comments; it's come up often in the discussion.
I agree, health is the best focus to have.
Self-esteem is good armor against cruelty. But cruelty does wear a person down if it's continual. Ask any black person... or homosexual... or obese person. Or anyone else who is "different."
As for children, their defenses aren't mature. Cruelty inflicted on them does lasting damage.
No... The majority of fat people are fat because they choose poor diets and a sedatary lifestyle, in other words they're physically lazy...
It's unattractive and shows that they are someone who doesn't take care of themselves...
Of course employers should be able to discriminate on grounds of obesity if they are obligated to pay for their health insurance that's a bad business investment... You should be forced to lose money to be nice to fat people it's simply stupid...
If employers can discriminate against obese persons because of insurance costs, what other medical conditions can employers discriminate against? Any they like?
Or is it simply your revulsion that makes it ok in this one instance? They're ugly, is that it?
You know, the productivity of the American worker has never been so high as it is now. The *majority* of those workers have weight problems. i think you'll need to look deeper than "they're lazy" to explain what's going on.
Are obese people ill because they are less active, or less active because they are ill?
What clues does science offer? Has it found the simplicity you expect, or complexity?
Do you care what science has found thus far? Mind you, it's a work in progress; much remains to be understood about obesity. But there are already quite a lot of interesting things science has uncovered.
Do you consider science a valid way to inform your opinion?
I certainly consider science in my thinking but also my experience. I'm passionate about fitness and have been working out for 10 yrs now...
Growing up I had many obese friends who were obervably less active... In later years they began working out with me and have both lost over 75 lbs each...
I'm not saying it's always directly contingent upon lazyness but I find that many times it is...
Bc of their hard work they all look and feel better now and at least seem more fulfilled...
We agree on the importance of physical fitness. Ignoring it is definitely a nail in one's coffin and is a factor - a large factor - in the development of obesity.
But it's just not the whole story.
Since you are interested in the science, here are some search terms to plug into Google (use each with the word "obesity"):
virus
sleep disorder
genetics
coconut
Skip web sites which are selling products (they're biased), and pay close attention to reports of peer-reviewed studies.
Let me just start by thanking you on that spelling correction, I'm always looking for nitpickers who's time would be better spent teaching 3rd grade english...
Secondly being judgemental is not the same as being big... I don't hate fat people, just the fact that they expect sympathy for poor lifestyle decisions which seem to constitute the main reason for being fat...
Hate to tell you this but it's terribly unattractive and I just won't act like it's not...
Blaming poor lifestyle for Obesity is neglecting every genetic disposition.
Just as an example: In highschool I maintained the busiest schedule possible including marching and football practice. I was EASILY burning 5000calories per day, and yet, even reducing my diet to lettuce, steamed chicken, and water; less than 2500 calories, I was not able to lose any weight.
It is insensitive and while it's not attractive it is also not so easily beaten as you would say.
I think the old adage still holds true; beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You are making bold remarks, there is no evidence to suggest that the majority of fat people are obese due to personal choice, and notice I said majority. There are other factors that need to be taken into account, like genetics, thyroid problems, and increased levels of cortisol, among others. Hate to tell you this but people don't really care about changing their appearance to placate your superficial idea of beauty.
Then tell me why the majority of obese people notice signigicant changes in their weight when they begin being active and eating properly... It's easy to say there are other reasons but those are 2 of the main problems...
And I hate to tell you this but people are obsessed with trying to placate my superficial idea of beauty... If not than the diet/fitness/infomercial industry would be out of business and videos like these wouldn't even be needed.
Obesity is mainly caused by over consumption of Animal Products...let me make this clear. WE ARE NOT DESIGNED TO EAT ANIMALS! The reason people are so fat is because they have deviated from a natural diet. The media and corporate America are half of the problem..the other half is you! STOP EATING MEAT! You will lose the weight and feel much better! Greens are the best thing for you. Make sure that half of your diet is raw as well...raw vegetation is MEDICINE!
So many people think it's simple, but they have such varied ideas as to what it is.
Human physiology is anything but simple, and obesity is physiology gone awry. Diet is certainly part of it, both quality and quantity, but it isn't the whole story.
Hormonal imbalances, cravings, pathogens, toxic loading, cultural influences, sleep deprivation, drugs, and genetics are just examples of things connected by science to obesity.
When a thing is complex, we need to acknowledge complexity.
And incidentally, that is the opinion of a vegetarian - me.
I'm a vegetarian for a number of reasons, one of which is that I think it's better nutrition.
But I have read enough anthropology to be pretty sure that we evolved as opportunistic omnivores, and that fish and animal flesh has been in the hominid diet for millions of years.
What we did not evolve eating is meat that has been produced by industrial agricultural methods. That's a whole other ball game.
Whining about being fat is absolutely pathetic. The obesity epidemic is a modern phenomenon and not an irremovable aspect of society like differing sexes and races. Obesity is not a social justice issue, its a public health issue and should only be approached as such. You should be ashamed for encouraging people to be fat, because you're no better than a person who advocates spreading HIV.
I would like you to point out the exact place in the video or comment section where he said, "go be fat." You won't be able to because it didn't happen. Also, the HIV/Obesity comparison is ridiculous. YOU should be ashamed for not paying attention.
It is rather odd that so many people jump to the conclusion that I am urging people to be fat. I'm against cruelty, not pro-obesity. Why would anyone be in favor of a disease?
If I go around telling people they're not allowed to criticise Pepsi, then many people would assume I'm pro-Pepsi. The same goes for you and obesity. Anti-anti-something is generally considered the same as pro-something.
Obesity is wrong. It is not immutable like gender or race (disregarding Boy George and Michael Jackson). Obesity should be publicly stigmatised, not publicly promoted. If you really wanted to help fat people, you'd post videos promoting weight loss not obesity acceptance.
Hi, Urgelt . :))
I wanted to post this very important video here so everyone can see it. Obesity CAN occur with no change at all in intake or activity. See here : watch?v=vxSAhLyKVqw&feature=related
The simplistic and erroneous caloric hypothesis has been completely debunked.
People: Do not let the $ 100 billion dollar commercial diet industry take advantage of you anymore. They exist on a bunchh of lies, complete misinformation and assumptions.
Razwell 5 months ago
Cushing's Disease is rare, but it does illustrate how haywire hormones, rather than overeating or lack of exercise as postulated by the Caloric Hypothesis, can cause obesity.
A likely far more common cause of obesity is excessive sugar intake. Elevated blood sugar stimulates the overproduction of insulin, which, like cortisol, is a hormone which regulates fat cell behavior.
Diet cannot be completely disconnected from obesity; but what we eat is probably more important than how much.
Urgelt 5 months ago
@Urgelt
Well said, Urgelt. As we both know dietary composition cannot be left out it. I should have mentioned this.
Razwell 5 months ago
My comment wasn't a rebuttal, Razwell. More of an "agreeable augmentation," if that makes any sense.
YouTube comments are too darned small for serious conversations, alas.
Urgelt 5 months ago
Exactly, and you put it very well.
I have come to view obesity as a very complex disease condition: the body is awry, thrown off by... well, there are a great many causes, only some of which are understood at all by medical science. That will change; research will eventually nail down most of them, and effective treatments will probably arrive eventually, too.
Any disease is bad; but I think human intolerance and hatred are pretty horrible in their own right. Those need a cure, too.
Urgelt 7 months ago
Great video.
ForsakenTank 8 months ago
Thank you for this video. I am very overweight due to a thyroid disease. I eat healthy and love to exercise, but my hypothyroidism makes me gain weight and struggle to lose it. people are so mean. its not something i can control and i dont like being judged for it.
makennnzieee 9 months ago
You can control some of the variables which contribute to your weight, makennnzieee, and it sounds as if you're doing what you can with diet and exercise. (Make sure you get plenty of sleep, too, it helps.)
But there are indeed variables you cannot control: genetics, diseases, toxic exposures, necessary prescription drugs, even food choices your mother made when you were just a fetus can play a role today.
Do the best you can; and recognize that those who judge you are deeply ignorant.
Urgelt 9 months ago
NO! NO! NO! A disease! No it is not!
Leprosy is a disease. If a person doesn't get up and move and watch their diets that is laziness. Parents who allow their children to become porkers should be beat. It is child abuse to allow them to be FAT. And an employer shouldn't have to be forced to higher a person you know is going to be far less productive than a person of normal size. I have worked with smokers and fat people, it sucks! Always making f---ing excuses. Why you need to do their work.
onemarktwoyou 10 months ago
Did you know that the incidence of obesity is rising even among infants?
The Caloric Hypothesis which you are promoting is in its death throes. It has no predictive value.
Fat cells are regulated by hormones. Disregulation of fat cells is a disease state.
Incidentally, if you have never known lazy thin people or hard-working fat people, then you haven't been paying attention. Humans are far more varied than your preconceived notions could ever admit.
Urgelt 10 months ago
@Urgelt
Infant obesity is occurring because diabetes is on the rise,they are linked.Also vitamins have contributed to as well. And the fact the woman's metabolite rate on average has fallen, which affects the infant. No FAT is not a disease but a condition. After birth the infant should have a proper diet!!! Not hotdogs in front of a TV!!! And I am in the work force and FAT people just like smokers seldom pull their own weight!And statistics argue against your statement for obesity.
onemarktwoyou 10 months ago
Do you honestly think that medical science embraces the things you are declaring as true and adequate explanations?
"Infant obesity is occurring because diabetes is on the rise."
Vitamins.
Metabolite rate? Gah. Why are people who refuse to even read science so eager to declare they know what it says?
Your "truths" are not drawn from science. They may be drawn from "authorities;" but without science, authorities can and do go far, far astray.
Urgelt 10 months ago
FYI, infants do not eat hot dogs.
It amazes me that you can declare that they do with exactly the same certitude as all the rest of your made-up beliefs.
Urgelt 10 months ago
"Obesity is not a simple condition of eating too much". Well said. Someone needs to tell the scamming Internet diet gurus this. I hope all the viewers will get the message out that obesity research is ongoing and we have so much more to learn about this complicated condition. Awesome video, Urgelt. ;) :)
Razwell 10 months ago 3
"You could make a difference to their lives, and your own". I really like the "and your own" bit at the end....very wise indeed.
pgjr00 11 months ago
sir with all due respect i feel ur pain. but a word of advice, stop depending on society to change or doctors to fix you, the way to a healthy, happy life is to take control of everything urself and live the nature way. the only alternative is being is the situation ur in now, overweight , depressed, and blaming people. Choose life brother, its all good over here
frogger1017 1 year ago
I have no idea what you are talking about.
I'm speaking to the need for civility and tolerance here, and the need to abandon oversimplistic explanations where science has shown they aren't warranted. I'm not speaking to my own personal circumstances.
Urgelt 1 year ago
thanks Urget for the kind word. When i started as a kid I was a little heavy but the constant ridiculed for my parents, teachers, and other children was more than i could mental bare. I used to come home from school and sleep four hours every night and then go back to bed. At 35 nothing much as changed people still try to micromanage my eating habits and I still don't care because most of them are so hypocritical. The last time my doctor asked for my calorie chart I said you first doc
jslovin23 1 year ago
Most doctors are operating under the assumption that the caloric hypothesis is valid and that people choose to be obese.
I'm afraid that nothing more clearly illustrates that medicine is a field more of dogma than of science. Nobody who is carefully tracking the work of scientific researchers in this field could come to that conclusion.
I look forward to the day when medicine catches up to what research scientists already know. Obesity is a failure of fat cell regulation with many causes.
Urgelt 1 year ago
I think we should have every right to discriminate against people who make poor choices, like obesity or smoking. Nobody chooses to be black or born with a disability. It's a completely different ballpark.
FortNikitaBullion 1 year ago
This conclusion is much easier to reach if you completely ignore everything science has turned up on the subject of obesity.
I've never understood the eagerness with which many people ignore scientific evidence. But many do, and speaking of what science has found cannot sway their viewpoint.
Urgelt 1 year ago
@Urgelt I can understand that a very small percentage of people are obese for genetic reasons, but we can't have a genetic epidemic. Obesity as a "disease" is invented by the industry to sell pharmaceuticals and to distract attention away from the real cause of obesity: poor choices (and to a smaller extent social pressure to eat poorly). If people suddenly realized that 99.9% of all cases of obesity were caused by food, the food industry would implode overnight. That's why it isn't mainstream.
FortNikitaBullion 1 year ago
We can't have a genetic epidemic, agreed.
Yet scientists have discovered a couple dozen genes which correlate strongly to obesity, and they're likely to discover more.
I think what this is telling us is that the playing field is not level. People with some combinations of these genes are more vulnerable to developing obesity in conjunction with other factors. There are a *lot* of other factors which scientists have correlated positively to obesity. Let me run down a partial list.
Urgelt 1 year ago
Possibly the most important is food. The uninformed tend to think of food as merely calories, an energy source to keep the body going. This isn't accurate at all. Each cell in your body needs a plethora of nutrients to be healthy. When you don't get those nutrients, you're hungry and unhealthy. Obesity and emaciation both correlate strongly to malnutrition - both unhealthy states.
The food industry pays little attention to nutrition; they're after a buck. This is a problem for us.
Urgelt 1 year ago
But the complexity doesn't stop there.
Gut bacteria varies across populations, and which gut bacteria a person has can strongly influence whether he is obese (and also influences insulin resistance). In science, this is considered "breaking news," meaning research on this has only just begun in the past few years, and the process of identifying which bacterial strains do what is ongoing.
Bacterial cross-infections might help explain family and acquaintanceship trends in obesity.
Urgelt 1 year ago
Other influences which can't be ruled out as factors (yet) include toxins in food, water, air, and consumer products, which can harm metabolic functions in thousands of ways, among them hormone-mimicking chemicals which can directly affect receptors on the surface of fat cells and cause them to change behaviors; and infectious diseases, which may also affect fat cell behavior. These are only examples. There are vast unknowns in this field of research.
Urgelt 1 year ago
The message from the food industry is actually quite consistent. They insist that one chooses to be fat, or chooses not to be fat. It's the patient's fault. This lets the food industry off the hook. They can sell whatever they like, and if it makes people sick and fat, it's the consumer's fault.
That's not the message from science, and you can recognize genuine scientists in the field very easily. Genuine researchers acknowledge uncertainty. The truth is, we're still figuring this out.
Urgelt 1 year ago
Many people with obesity can be controlled. I know there are many who can't do it due to some of the adenovirus 36 now that has been discovered. That makes this a new condition--it's a virus and a chronic disease process. I hope for the many who can control it, gets it right. For all of those who are fat or obese--I hope we'll change our laws and our feelings
MrLee4love 1 year ago
Obese people are notoriously dishonest/secretive about their food consumption.
TheFinal88 1 year ago
Some do.
This is the product of teasing, of inflicted shame and emotional abuse, and of the general public's ignorant belief that obesity is simple and that the playing field is level.
A similar dynamic is at work in anorexics, who often cannot bear the thought of eating in public. Or bulemics, who hide their disgorgement of food. All three categories of illness produce these behaviors due to perceived stigma.
There is no evidence that stigma produces any positive result whatsoever.
Urgelt 1 year ago
@TheFinal88
Maybe that because people are questioning them about it all the time. Worse, people will take it upon themselves to actually start telling you what you should eat, without you asking.
How would you like it if a random stranger started questioning you about your food habits, or any other habits they have no business with?
Generally, overweight people know quite well which foods are fat or unhealthy, but putting it into practice is not the same as the theory.
Kayelle1980 1 year ago
Typical theme here, evading responsibility, vast majority of obese people can change their lifestyle habits
TheFinal88 1 year ago
@TheFinal88
Just like alcoholics can stop drinking, or smokers can stop smoking?
Yes, sure, it can be done. But many will relapse in bad eating habits, because the reasons why some people overeat are often fueled by psychology.
But some stranger saying "well just have one scoop less potatoes" or "keep away from that Mars bar" is generally not going to help.
Making overweight people feel bad about themselves, will not make them lose weight more - on the contrary
Kayelle1980 1 year ago
I love it when some skinny-ass ape tells me to "Go on a diet! Lose some weight" As if they've been there themselves!! I tried dieting once, and I lost weight, but I sacrificed a lot of other health issues too. So I said never again!! I'm healthy, I walk 3 miles daily, and I do it without losing my breath. I don't go to fast food restaurants at all, and I really don't eat that much. I'm OK with who I am.
TimmyGal 1 year ago
Heath should be the first priority, always. Good for you.
Your story reminds me of remarks made by Dr. Stephan Guyenet about body fat set points. He's neurobiologist and researcher, not part of the diet industry. I suspect you might enjoy reading his blog or listening to interviews he's given. You can find him through Google.
Urgelt 1 year ago
one job i had all the guys i work with would go out after work for drinks and the whole year i worked there i wasn't invited once
one time at that same job it was my break time and this guy came to cover my break, i went to the back to get my purse and he basically walked away and i had to work another 20 mins until he came back, he didn't tell me where he went or why he just left and when he came back he didn't look me in the eye or show sympathy
SkinnyGirl125 1 year ago
Some of these anecdotes may illustrate a more general indifference and cruelty which humans often express towards each other. Our society is full of it.
Selfishness, venality, cruelty, injustice, hatred - these are well-used words in our language for a reason. The targets are often obese, or women, or minorities, but they can just as easily be anyone.
Reforming a society isn't easy. But it is wise to remember that every one of us contributes to the whole. It starts with the self.
Urgelt 1 year ago
i was at a store one time, the only girl and there were a lot of guys, the store worker guy asked us to put up tall the chairs on the table. i didn't because there were enough guys there so they didn't need my help, the store worker/owner guy yelled at me twice saying that i had to lift the chairs too (even though i was 17 and tehre were more than enough guys there and the chairs were light and i didn't even work at the store)
SkinnyGirl125 1 year ago
I got a "satisfactory" score on a performance appraisal at work 3 years in a row and when i asked what i could do to get a higher score they told me to do things outside of my job title.
people at stores don't talk much to me and they rarely look me in the eye
guy tellers or cashiers are nice to women infront of me in line but when i get up they act indifferent or treat me like a guy
SkinnyGirl125 1 year ago
1. i wore a perfume one day and this guys stopped and complimented my friend who was walking with me on her perfume (she wasn't wearing any it was me)
2. i was at a bar with 2 friends and when the bartender came over to us, he got both of them drinks and assumed i wasn't with them
3. i have had teachers give me c's or b's and when i ask them what could i have done to make the essay a better grade they don't have an actual answer, they just tell me "this essay is not the whole grade"
SkinnyGirl125 1 year ago
If you're fat, you just eat too much. This is the plain and simple truth. This video should be required viewing for all fat people. "How To Be Slim" right here on YouTube.
Guys like Gary Taubes should not have best sellers. Guys like Alan Aragon , Dr. Gergory Ellis are full of sound information. These men understand energy balance. What other solution is there for obesity currently other than to eat less I ask you, Mr Urgelt? That video's information could solve obesity.
DirkDigglerfatloss 1 year ago
Dirk, you still have not responded to the question I posed to you, so I'll repeat it: how do you explain lipodystrophy? This is a disease condition in which both severe emaciation and obesity manifest in the same patient. Is the patient supposed to eat less for just part of his body?
You need to understand that the behavior of fat cells is regulated in a healthy person. It can become disregulated: this is a disease state. A poor diet can produce this effect, but so can other influences.
Urgelt 1 year ago
You seem determined to oversimplify: calories, and only calories, matter. This view ignores virtually the entire body of research into obesity. It is more often a disease state associated with malnutrition than with abundance.
Worse, your view that "counting calories" is the solution completely ignores nutrition. Let me remind you that poor nutrition *is* malnutrition. Eating the wrong foods *will* lead to problems, and obesity is one of them.
You do us no favors by oversimplifying.
Urgelt 1 year ago
Im 5 ft 1 inch and i wiegh 170 lbs i got ignored because i wanted to be waited on at a store and was descriminated against because the guy helped a skinny blond chick and i was ahead of her.
funkydiva1980 1 year ago
I'm going to guess that's not the only instance of cruelty you've experienced. Nor the worst.
Thank you for contributing, funkydiva1980.
Urgelt 1 year ago
18%? Almost every MD I've ever seen has immediately blamed any condition I have on weight, even sore throats and ear infections. One GP actually refused to set my broken toe "until [my] weight was at a less dangerous level". I'm 180lbs.
I usually get a nice food chart as a parting gift. Guess what? Unless you've spent every day of your adult life adding calories & fatgrams, and never missed a day of exercise -- if you've ever been able to eat without feeling bad, you don't get to judge me.
sweetalker79 1 year ago
Most doctors need to come to realize: their conception of obesity fails to take into account a whole lot of very good science about the disorder. Because of that, their treatments generally fail. Blaming the patient doesn't make things better. It makes things worse.
Obesity is a disease condition. The disease should be fought, like any disease. But not with prejudice or hate, and not with "blame the patient."
Urgelt 1 year ago
@Urgelt Thanks for that.
sweetalker79 1 year ago
So, Mr. Urgelt, to be clear you are saying that calories in/calories out is all wrong? You are saying that anyone who evokes thermodynamics in an obesity discussion has no idea what they are talking about and that fat loss is a hormonal/chemical process, and not energy balance?
DirkDigglerfatloss 1 year ago
I'm saying the Caloric Model is much, much too simplistic.
And yes, I'm saying that anyone who invokes the laws of thermodynamics in a discussion about obesity is taking the laws out of context and attempting to oversimplify a very complex phenomenon.
Funny thing. Actual biologists aren't much into oversimplifying a physiological phenomenon. Mostly where it happens is in the pro-dieting industry, where proponents have a financial stake in the conclusions drawn.
Urgelt 1 year ago
A calorie is a unit of heat used in physics. It has everything to do with how much energy is liberated from *burning* a substance. It has very, very little to do with biological processes, which do not involve combustion.
The Caloric Model is a 60-year-old rough analogy. It considers food for its combustive chemical energy and ignores what actually happens to food molecules in the body.
Overeating is bad, of course. But the phenomenon of obesity is far more complex than you will admit.
Urgelt 1 year ago 2
Alan Aragon has wonderful articles completely discrediting Gary Taubes and Dr. Robert Lustig, who by the way did a very poor job defending himself to Alan. Please give it a read Mr. Urgelt. If you have a positive energy baance you will gain fat even in the presence of low insulin levels. Taubes' nonsense has been discredited.
DirkDigglerfatloss 1 year ago
Are you saying that extreta can't be modulated by the body to eliminate excesses which fat cells don't absorb?
I'd say that's a bit of a stretch.
Urgelt 1 year ago
There is no other way to lose fat other than an energy imbalance. As far as the rats, again, altering intestinal flora changes the calories being absored.The energy balance model is not static remember.
The rat study does not at all contradict the energy balance concept. Everything Taubes claims can be explained by the energy balance theory. Doubly labelled water confirms Taubes is wrong about calories. Taubes makes assumptions and uses field data.
DirkDigglerfatloss 1 year ago
Mr. Urgelt , The laws of thermodynamics apply to open systems too. I strongly suggest you familairize yourself with the writings of Jamie Hale and Alan Aragon. You will see clearly how Taubes' is a charalatan.
DirkDigglerfatloss 1 year ago
The laws of thermodynamics apply to open systems too. Gary Taubes tells fat people what they want to hear. He is full of it. No calorie deficit, no fat loss. That is the truth.
Hormones can bark orders all day, they need substrate to create fat mass.
DirkDigglerfatloss 1 year ago
The question isn't whether the laws of thermodynamics apply to humans. The question is whether we can infer from those laws the behavior of mammalian fat cells.
Turns out there's much more complexity involved.
Thermodynamics requires that energy is conserved in the system, and it is. But whether lipids are stuffed into fat cells, processed to extract chemical energy, or simply eliminated as waste isn't predicted by those laws. Those things are governed by other variables.
Urgelt 1 year ago
There is not a shred of data that contradicts the concept of energy balance and bodyweight......not a single study. If changes in bodyweight were the result of something other than energy balance, this would mean the laws of thermodynamics would be violated. Think about it for a second. If "caloriesin/calories out" was not true, that would imply that fat tissue could be created form nothing, or that fat tissue could disappear into thin air( without any production of heat or energy).
DirkDigglerfatloss 1 year ago
There's lots and lots of evidence demonstrating that lipid storage and release in fat cells is governed by signaling chemicals. Insulin is one of them. This is not seriously disputed in science.
The behavior of fat cells is also regulated by genetics, and (probably) affected by hormone-mimicking chemicals which enter our bodies, and by variations in gut flora among individuals, and by disease states.
How does your understanding of the Caloric Model illuminate lipodystrophy, I wonder?
Urgelt 1 year ago
There is nothing wrong with the caloric model. Everything that Gary Taubes says is "wrong" with it is based on misinterpretation or an incomplete presentation of the existing scientific data. If someone gains weight they are consuming more claories than they are expending. There is no other way around it. That is basic thermodynamics.
Dr. George Bray, a real obesity expert, is very critical of Gary Taubes' nonsense.
DirkDigglerfatloss 1 year ago
I find Taubes useful, but his arguments are not always scientific. And in any event, he is a science journalist, not a scientist. It's perfectly ok to listen to what he says, another thing altogether to ascribe to him omniscience on this subject. I do not.
Your "basic thermodynamics" argument only works in a closed system, and mixes up E=MC^2 in a way Einstein wouldn't forgive. Humans are not closed systems, and no caloric energy is being turned into matter in a human.
Urgelt 1 year ago
I don't think you are understanding what I am saying about the rats. When intestinal microflora is changed so is the absorbtion of calories. "Energy in" does not mean whatever you put in your mouth. It refers to what energy is metabolised. For example fiber does not count towards "energy in" because your body cannot metabolise fiber.
DirkDigglerfatloss 1 year ago
Actually, "energy metabolized" is on the output side of your equation, not the input side.
Soluable fiber is metabolized. Only insoluable fiber is not.
Food is not merely "chemical energy." It's building materials, too - the molecular components of cells.
The primary sins of the Caloric Model are that it attempts to posit a closed system where none exists, it oversimplifies, and it does not attempt to explain many, many observations. Ignoring evidence is a good way to get a theory killed.
Urgelt 1 year ago
If you think weight can increase wihtout an energy surplus, that means you need to explain how tissue mass can be created without any energy input. Essentially you are saying here that thermodynamics can be violated......something for which you do not have any evidence to support. To lose fat you must create a calorie deficit. To gain fat you must have a positive energy balance. There is no other way to lose fat.
DirkDigglerfatloss 1 year ago
Nonsense. The laws of thermodynamics are not violated by acknowledging that in the nonclosed system which is a mammal, how fat cells behave is governed by chemical signals - from hormones and food substances - and by states of disease and genetics.
To lose fat, fat cells must be made to disgorge themselves of their excess lipid molecules and allow the body to eliminate them as waste. Saying this does not violate the Laws of Thermodynamics.
Urgelt 1 year ago
None of this contradicts the energy balance concept. The obese eat more than the lean. This has been proven by the use of doubly labeled water. As far as rats, you are ignoring the energy out part of the equation. You are also ignoring the fact that changing the intestinal microflora changes the amount of energy absorbed in the digestive tract, which alters the "energy in" part of the equation. Calories in/calories out.
DirkDigglerfatloss 1 year ago
I don't think you've read the study in question, Dirk. Feel free to give it a browse. The rats' energy balance didn't change. Their weight did.
Face it. There are other factors than caloric intake - quite a lot of them, in fact. That's not in doubt among scientists in the field.
Which does not mean all of the facets of how fat cell behavior works are understood.
Nor does it mean that calories in has no meaning at all. But it's just one of the variables affecting the outcome.
Urgelt 1 year ago
@Urgelt
I like your idea of more needs to be done on trying to find the chemical and biolocial factors that cause obesity. I know there is also a lot of psychological factors too.
I like your way of thinking.
annoyed though now...because youtube brought back this shitty layout. ARRRRRRRRR!!!!
ImplodedToad 1 year ago
Yeah. Comments are particularly messed up - no dates, and organization is horrible. And the video text block is all but vanished. I *used* the text block. Arrrrgh.
Mental health is a factor in many cases of obesity, sure. But not all.
I think within 10 years or so, we'll see a new class of drugs for obesity which directly signal fat cells and regulate their behavior. But we'll still need to eat well to be physiologically healthy. Nutrition will always matter.
Urgelt 1 year ago
@Urgelt
And yes there are many foods that have hidden sugars and what not. Thing to do is learn which foods are bad.
Now me, I buy a lot of fruits and vegetables, and I always buy fresh or frozen. Anything with preservatives is bad for you.
Every morning I work out, I have a blended juice of fruits and vegetables. It isnt the best tasting but it is healthy.
To stay in shape or loose weight the lifestyle has to change too.
(People that insult obese people are idiots btw)
ImplodedToad 1 year ago
It was cruelty that prompted me to make the video. Not cruelty directed at me - I wasn't obese.
I'm certainly not an expert in nutrition, but I think nutrition has a big role to play in achieving health. But to get there, we have to stop looking at food as calories, and start thinking of it as building blocks for cells, whose needs are both broad and complex. Any deficiency translates into malnutrition; malnutrition is linked very strongly to obesity.
We need to avoid toxins, too.
Urgelt 1 year ago
ImplodedToad 1 year ago
Eh?
How did my own weight get into this discussion? And who exactly do you think I'm blaming?
I don't disapprove of your list, particularly, though I think it's not nearly long enough. For example, if you restrict calories but include large amounts of sugar or fructose in your diet, you will have big problems with weight control. Fructose also can damage your liver. This isn't so much a concern when eating natural fruits which include plenty of fiber, but it is otherwise.
Urgelt 1 year ago
I'd also like to know how your advice changes for people who must take drugs which increase their weight, and people who suffer from chronic diseases which inhibit exercise.
Simple answers are not always the right ones. In the case of obesity, if the simple answers worked, we'd not have the problems with it we do in our society.
But I'll give you credit for not recommending dieting. Temporary caloric restriction is useless. We probably agree that lifestyle changes are the main hope.
Urgelt 1 year ago
ya your rite. I see what you mean, cause i like smaller women too.
redneck500 1 year ago
im 500 lbs and I cant get laid :( I kinda feel like women are intollerant against me cause of my size, what do you think ?
redneck500 1 year ago
I think they are obeying biological instincts far deeper than mere prejudice.
It's perfectly natural for women to prefer some qualities over others. Men, too. That's the nature of the mating dance: selecting traits that will confer advantage in offspring.
Obesity signals ill health. Not a desirable quality to most.
I suspect there are women to whom it's not very important, though. Your options are to find one, or seek a solution to your health problem and broaden your options.
Urgelt 1 year ago
@Urgelt
Well the reason I say dont blame others is because when you put the blame on someone else you take the responsibility away from yourself. And when I say "you" I mean that in the general term.
Now people with chronic illnesses that prevent them from exerciizing who need to take medication and it makes them gain weight, for them to keep fit is harder but not impossible, however it is a bit over my head. I will google it later.
I dont dislike overweight or obese people, what I do(cont.)
ImplodedToad 1 year ago
I'm not assigning blame to anyone. I am pointing out that the caloric model doesn't explain observed data. It's a failed model.
We need a better understanding of obesity than we currently have. I think the key will be found in fat cell regulation/disregulation. Foods, diseases, toxins, hormones, hormone-mimickers, intestinal flora, exercise... they all play into how fat cells are regulated. If they get too many signals to hoard lipid molecules, that's what they're going to do.
Urgelt 1 year ago
A lot of meds, deseases and even a virus have been linked to weight gain. People are so quick to be hateful when it's a heavy person. what about skinny people that eat and eat and still can't gain weight. Do these same people say "it's your own fault you stupid skeleton. If only you'd eat." You people can choose to be bad people if you want, but bigotry, hatred and intollerence is just plain wrong. If something inside you doesn't tell you that, then there is something wrong with you.
toddwoodamerican 2 years ago 7
Hate is ugly. Uglier by far than any mere physical deviation from our standards of beauty.
Thank you for your comment, Todd.
Urgelt 2 years ago
You are right, Urgelt, as far as the Western culture and our diets. The problem is not that it is a disease. Obesity rates were not as high 50 years ago as they are now, therefore saying its a disease is an excuse to cover up the real issue which is the lack of willpower. Eating processed foods are known for many health deficits which lead to disease. I am not lucky enough to have good genetics so I don't eat fast-food, I prepare my own, I exercise,...
CadaverousWound 2 years ago
...I especially stay away from drugs as they cause more damage than good. The point is there is no real excuse for the rates of obesity. Neither is there one to show such merciless active discrimination. to me it's the lack of self control that sickens me not just obesity alone.
CadaverousWound 2 years ago
The American diet is a diet of malnourishment. Obesity and malnutrition go hand-in-hand. It's not simply lack of self-control; it's deeper than that.
Americans are generally ignorant about what they should be eating, and swayed by advertising to make poor choices. Government isn't helping much, since their recommendations are heavily influenced by the food lobby.
We must get past condemning obese people and start addressing root causes, I believe.
Urgelt 2 years ago
@Urgelt
Obesity is preventable. Eat healthy and exercize. Dont rely on the government to help you, they dont care about you.. And there is an easy way to find out the right way to eat and exercize, it is called google.
Now when someone is obese, they still can loose weight, but it is harder for them physically and psychologically to loose it. But if they should never point their finger at someone else for their obesity, it was all them. 100% them.
ImplodedToad 1 year ago
I'd like to invite you to look deeper, Toad, as I have tried to do.
Obesity is difficult to treat - in part because there are many factors involved which aren't addressed in treatment regimes. Science is uncovering more of these factors every year. Not all of these factors are under personal control. Most people aren't aware that this is happening in science; they cling to old conceptions.
I've talked about some of these factors in the video and in comments; I'll spare you a repetition.
Urgelt 1 year ago
@Urgelt
It still is 100% them. They put the food in their mouths. And exercizing also helps prevent it.
Yes there other factors like hidden calories and other things, but at the end of the day, it was them who put the food in their mouth.
I am saying basically the only person you should point to for your obesity is yourself.
Now Obese people I wish the best for and hope they get healthy, as being obese is worse then being on any drug, even heroin.
ImplodedToad 1 year ago
I get that you believe this. You aren't alone, either. Lots of people agree with you.
That doesn't make it correct.
Here is one datum - which has been discussed elsewhere in the comments - which suggests the truth is far more complex.
With absolutely no change in either diet or activity level, if your doctor prescribes any of dozens of drugs for you, you will put on weight.
Many drugs and drug-mimicking chemicals cause fat cells to behave differently, you see. This is an important clue.
Urgelt 1 year ago
Another datum is that obesity is statistically associated with poverty and even starvation - situations where an individual has less, not more, control over what he consumes. When we think of starvation, we automatically conjure up images of skeletally-thin people, but the incidence of obesity *rises* under those conditions. A lot.
Yet another datum is laboratory evidence that on a fixed diet, thin sterile rats given transfused intestinal flora from fat rats become fat.
Urgelt 1 year ago
We also know that hormones affect the behavior of fat cells - their tendency to store or release lipid molecules. And the sites where fat deposition occurs is differentiated, too - which tells us that in a single person, some fat cells are behaving differently than other fat cells.
The behavior of fat cells is key. They are regulated by signalling chemicals. Their regulation is complex - and can go awry, resulting in a disease state. Overeating is just one of the ways this can happen.
Urgelt 1 year ago
And you can't tell by looking at a person what factors contributed to his obesity. Nor do doctors have good tools yet by which to diagnose those factors. Obesity is a disease for which we do not yet have good diagnostics or treatments.
The simplistic caloric model of obesity which you believe in isn't supported by the evidence being turned up by science. A more nuanced understanding is needed, not only by doctors but the general public.
Urgelt 1 year ago
hmm....the teasing about my weight is one of the reasons I dropped out of high school in 11th grade... I was going crazy
yaoigirl418 2 years ago
Teasing is much too mild a word for what you were put through, I think.
Urgelt 2 years ago
well, considering I got rocks thrown at me in 7th grade because of that, I SHOULD use a harsher word....I just choose not to say exactly what I think it was...discrimination is exactly what it is....-_- prejuduce bastards
yaoigirl418 2 years ago
@Urgelt
(cont.)
what I do dislike is overweight or obese people that will blame the fast food or some diet that didnt work, or diet pills that didnt work, and always blame someone else and think they are a victum who needs to do nothing.
I dislike them because they are killing themselves and they wont open their eyes and see it.
When they dont take responsibility for their own health they depend on others to do it for them. Now there are some who have no choice, but many dont but act like it
ImplodedToad 1 year ago
It's not an either-or proposition. Physiology is tons more complex than that.
Dietary choices play into it. So does availability of healthy foods - which we've screwed up in Western culture over the past century. But there are factors completely beyond the control of individuals at work, too - genetics, diseases, toxic exposures, and prescription drugs being examples.
In other words, it's not a level playing field, and pretending otherwise is just another form of thoughtless prejudice.
Urgelt 2 years ago
Beautiful. I've been waiting for someone to come along and speak to this acceptable form of prejudice. Any idea where I can find more like-minded people? Would like to start the notion of change
cpeter3644 2 years ago
I have spoken my opinion here, but I would be misleading you to say that I'm any sort of activist. I'm not connected to any organization promoting this view.
You might look into The Obesity Society (Google for web site). My impression is that they are actively supporting many obesity-related efforts, including medical research and social reforms.
If you decide to advocate for tolerance, be prepared to take some heat. As we saw with the Civil Rights movement, resistance will be fierce.
Urgelt 2 years ago
the reason for people bullying fat people and not gays or blacks or w/e is because its fat peoples fault no matter what you say, its there own fault
tom904mills 2 years ago
It seems to me that there are two sorts of people in this world.
One sort is curious, and looks for evidence upon which to base their opinions.
The other sort is incurious, and is comfortable making declarations without regard for evidence at all.
Science is a good place to find evidence. If you aren't looking at science, I think it's fair to say you are devoid of curiosity and deaf to persuasion.
Urgelt 2 years ago
are u telling me we should blame science for fat people, dont blame being fat on other people, nobody likes fat people much because there greedy, and before you say you dont know any i blates do
tom904mills 2 years ago
Blame science? I said no such thing.
I suggested reading science to gain insight into the phenomenon of obesity. If you do, you will discover that the stereotype you hold dear is far too simplistic to describe reality.
Urgelt 2 years ago
As I was growing up in the early 80's, my mother was a stay at home mom. She always cooked for us, only about 3 times a year she would buy us a burger from McDonalds.
Those were the days, getting a Big Mac was a huge deal back then, I would brag about it to my cousins and friends that mom tooks us to eat at McDEEs. We were all skinny, even mom & dad. Nowadays I see kids that eat McDees every single day. Easy food, to hard working parents. I blame the franchise business, along w/ busy parents.
VERONICA1977 2 years ago
It's tough to feed kids when both parents are hustling just to stay a step ahead of bankruptcy. Lots of folks are in that situation these days.
Bad food is a very big factor in the obesity epidemic, I am convinced.
But I'll hold off from concluding it's the only factor. Too much of the science points in other directions.
The answers aren't as simple as we'd prefer to believe.
Urgelt 2 years ago
Oh obsoletely, the answers to obesity will not take days, months, or even years to figure out. The question is, what is causing obesity in our country? What is the diffrence between, women from now, and 50 years ago?
VERONICA1977 2 years ago
I'm not sure. I think bad food has a great deal to do with it. Advertising, too, which convinces us to eat it. They've gotten awfully slick at the advertising game.
But we also live in a much more toxic world than our great-grandparents did. Many are exotic toxins poorly studied and poorly understood. What are they doing to our bodies and our minds? Nobody really has a handle on it.
Urgelt 2 years ago
It's impossible to rule out infectious diseases, either. We know so little about the relationship between pathogens and fat cells. People who lived mostly in small farming communities and didn't travel much are a far cry from the globe-trotting world of today; nondeadly pathogens circulate ferociously now. What are they doing to us?
Urgelt 2 years ago
It could be a combination of those factors, or there may be still other factors involved. I'm not going to draw too hasty a conclusion; but I think the place to start repairing the damage is food choices.
You have to be careful, though.
Lard and butter were the cooking oils of choice 75 years ago, and few people were fat. But if you buy lard today, you may end up with hydrogenated lard, which is very, very bad. And butter is usually produced with hormones that weren't used 75 years ago.
Urgelt 2 years ago
Have you seen the movie WALL-E? That is the future, of this country. Everything has change, nothing we consume is natural, starting w/ eggs, milk, beef, poultry, soft drinks, candy, milk shakes,pizza, burgers, ect... I can go on and on. I have a 6 yrs old and he is one of the thin ones, but that boy does not want to eat anything green. Oh it's a battle everyday to make him eat something healthy. All he wants is candy!
VERONICA1977 2 years ago
Do a choice for inetrnational obesity rates on google and notice the rates of our closest neighbor Canada.. how can this disparity in percentage be anything but lifestyle choice? There may be some gene differences in racial demographics but HALF?? Its our fast food nation status.. Also do you realize that the only state that REQUIRES PE is Illinois? I guess since we dont know who is an apple and an orange we should not judge anybody.. but wow how about some personal control?
kurtnils 2 years ago
HAHA Thats a search not choice on google..
kurtnils 2 years ago
Somewhere down the line (often middle school and late elementary), the wrong choices are made.. and body chemistry get set (this is how obesity takes root).. Now it may be true that kids shuldn't be held accountable for poor CHOICES, but try explaining that to mother nature.
kurtnils 2 years ago
There is no single cause. In many or most individuals, obesity is the product of multiple factors.
I truly hope you do not have the need, at some point during your life, to take an obesity-causing prescription drug. (There are dozens on the market.) But if you do, you will rapidly discover just how simplistic your current opinion is - and how inadequate. And that's just one factor beyond individual choice; there are many others.
Urgelt 2 years ago
I have just figure out what is happening to our discussion. We are comparing apples and oranges. Apples: people with conditions such as cushing and other physiological problems. Oranges: people who overeat and have damaged their body chemistry. The problem is that it seems that far too many obese people put themselves in the Apple catagory by self diagnosis, thus giving themeselves a 'way out'.. I have personally trained hundreds of people in my profession that have overcome thier obesity status
kurtnils 2 years ago
Then you're doing the world some good, kurtnils. Good on you.
I'm not intending to give excuses to obese people to ignore their disease. It should be fought, vigorously.
That fight is between a patient and his doctor - or trainer, if he goes that route.
But you cannot look at a person and know the cause of his obesity. Nor is it a simple, one-dimensional disorder.
I'm suggesting we lay off the hate and stigmatizing. I think it's a fair request.
Urgelt 2 years ago
Consider: we would not have a SINGLE obese person in the US if everyone ate at their BMR and exercised 1/2 a day at just a moderate pace.. It would be a physiological impossibility.. (I challenge you to explain how the body can add weight in caloric deficit)..
Some just don't choose this..
kurtnils 2 years ago
You've accurately expressed the Caloric Hypothesis view which is current medical dogma.
I invite you to Google "Big Fat Lies." You'll find a video by award-winning science journalist Gary Taubes, in which he casts doubt on this hypothesis.
The truth is the hypothesis is far, far too simple to explain the available evidence.
I've also furnished many factors which contribute to obesity which have nothing to do with personal choice, here in the comments.
Urgelt 2 years ago
I am certain that if I escalted my caloric intake to 5-10K calories per day and was senditay I would unlock and develope my "obesity gene'. why should some be allowed to do this and not others? Europeans laugh at our XXL sized clothes.. and super sized soft drinks. Discrimination may be a social control mechanism. One last thing. I KNOW that fit workers are more roductive than unfit. That is why so many companies have sucessful wellness programs.. sorry to be a word hog.. :>
kurtnils 2 years ago
There are many, many factors which can produce obesity which have nothing to do with choices people make. I've talked about these factors elsewhere in these comments; I won't repeat myself here.
I've supervised fit workers who produced less, obese workers who produced more. And the reverse, too. I've learned not to judge performance based on weight. So should we all.
Urgelt 2 years ago
Cont.. now nobody should be teased or harrased.. but it may be a function of a collective social conscience that leads people to criticize a condtion that can be controlled. A condition of over-indulgance that perhaps is at the top of our problem with sky roocketing health care-- the top two killers in the US are linked to obesity cancer- and CVD. Maybe we are battleing (as a society) with how to deal with those who do NOT keep there 'weight genes' under control and put a strain on our society..
kurtnils 2 years ago
Urgelt- Thank you for presenting this issue- and representing your logic very well (as always! :>) I ask you to consider this inclusion. Race, Gender, one can not control. The PATH to obesity you most certainly can. Granted by the time somebody has 35% body fat, body chemistry has changed and it is very hard to combat and it has progressed to a disability. But BEFORE this happens lifestyle choices can be made to mitigate against the process. This perhaps is why people react so unfavorably..
kurtnils 2 years ago
wages are not supposed to be equal. obese people are less likely to produce as much as the fit.
its the same reason women are paid less: they produce less,comparatively. It is not fair to give someone the same wage for doing less work.
muffysmission 2 years ago
The sweeping conclusions you have drawn are founded on prejudice, not experience.
I've supervised people, male and female. I can testify that some women work as hard as men. Or harder.
They can't lift as much, on average. But in an office environment, that simply doesn't come up much.
I've also supervised obese people, and the same applies. Some of them were excellent workers. Some weren't.
If you pay according to performance, I have no problem with it. Leave their weight out of it.
Urgelt 2 years ago
I have to repsectfully disagree, urgelt. Rather than being founded on prejudice, my conclusions are founded on common sense and economics.
SOME women do, indeed, work harder, I agree. But as a general rule, they do not.
now, how do I know this? Simple. IF they indeed were as productive, and also accepted their 75% relative wage, savvy firms would get rid of the 'overpaid' men and solely employ the equally productive, less paid women. Who in their right mind would waste money on men?
muffysmission 2 years ago
You then go one to say ' if you pay according to performance'...
well then theres no beef, and we wholly agree. The problem is, introducing legislation that forces firms to pay the less productive an equal amount, merely because of their weight, is unfair, counterproductive, and unconstitutional.
Firms should not have to pay the less productive the same amount. That lost wealth just makes society as a whole that much poorer.
muffysmission 2 years ago
Eh, you presume, Muffy, as do most economists, that markets are rational.
That is the most absurd assumption in academia. But let's set that aside.
I agree that the solution is not to have the government set salaries for jobs. Or to pay everyone the same regardless of productivity.
We need a path for remedy, though, when people are paid unfairly, relative to peers, for reasons having nothing to do with their performance. Legislation creating that path is appropriate.
Urgelt 2 years ago
Although I love this video.. and I agree with the point.. But.. is obesity a disease? (I apologize if there was any spelling mistakes in this comment)
Deniecu 2 years ago
Fair enough.Good videos by the way, thanks for sharing.
6mm6mm762x39 2 years ago
Urgelt your heart is in the right place for sure. I agree crualty is not the answer,but the doctors know with obesety @ also depression the more sympathy that is given the more obese @ depressed the paitent becomes just to get more attention,@ more drugs.
6mm6mm762x39 2 years ago
Interesting hypothesis. I haven't seen any studies which test it.
But I'm not arguing for sympathy. I'm arguing against cruelty. I think there is a difference between the two concepts.
I'm asking that you treat obese persons as you would treat anyone else - within certain limits. Obviously, you don't need to hire them to do a job they cannot do. And you don't have to prefer their body type in a partner. Otherwise, just treat them as people. That's what they are.
Urgelt 2 years ago
so true urgelt. so true
lorkhanindomitable 2 years ago
The epidemic of obesity is new to our society, and I think we aren't sure how to combat it quite yet. The problem with discriminating against overweight people is that it detracts from the efforts made by others who choose to try and find solutions to this problem.
Beyond this, all humans deserve respect and dignity. I'd bet that most of the people doing the discriminating have never had weight issues. It seems ridiculous to make judgements on a situation you've never been a part of.
excellentgerwa 2 years ago
Very well said, Jen. Thank you for contributing your thoughts.
Urgelt 2 years ago
True to much hate and not enough support in love. Sexuality is judged on weight as an example. Stereotypes are foolish.
There are some reasons why the body doesn't look or act the same as an everyone thing. People are to concerned with how they look and not how healthy they are. The first step in being healthy starts in the mind. Love does bring better health than hate.
Chamelionroses 2 years ago
Well, yes. But.
People are sexually attracted to the traits which turn them on. I don't think that can be changed, and I would never condemn someone for preferring specific physical traits, and for acting on those preferences in mate selection.
But I draw the line at the expression of cruelty. For that, there is no excuse.
Urgelt 2 years ago
True. Can't be helped in what people are going to conform or be an individual on believing. Doesn't hurt to keep an open mind. Human rights are so important not just for others, but for our personal being. Agreed.
Chamelionroses 2 years ago
Very much so.
A society which resonates to the expression of hatred is a society which does endless and lasting damage to itself.
Urgelt 2 years ago
So, This "disease" has been around for how long exactly? The sky rocketing numbers of the millions becoming obese has no correlation to the rapid expanse of western greed and decadence? While I admit people may be genetically disposed of maintaining a certain weight, people DO NOT put on weight because of their genes. I find it strange how this "disease" doesn't affect any African, Asian or middle-eastern nations in the way that America, UK and other Euro Nations have encountered...
jakestarnes123 2 years ago
Malnutrition and weight disorders (both obesity and skeletal thinness) are well correlated in human populations. Have been since long before the boom in obesity in Western nations.
Malnutrition, you know, is not a disease of inadequate calories. It's a disease of inadequate nutrients.
Urgelt 2 years ago
Science has been steadily turning up new physiological factors: pathogenic, genetic, drugs, hormone-mimicking toxins, gut flora, none of them behavioral. The picture that emerges is of a physiological phenomenon, not a behavioral one: the dis-regulation of fat cells by adverse factors, predominantly, but by no means exclusively, industrialized foods which are lacking in nutrients needed for regulation of fat cells.
Urgelt 2 years ago
None of which is to say that you cannot become obese by deliberately overeating. But the old paradigm of treating obesity as a behavioral disorder is falling on hard times in science. As a hypothesis, it's got very little evidence supporting it. As a basis for generating therapies, it has failed.
Urgelt 2 years ago
I'm sorry, but the comment "industrialized foods which are lacking in nutrients needed for regulation of fat cells" is in itself physiological, but the driving factor is actually behavioural. You can't honestly say that if people ate the right foods and got the correct amount of nutrients and calories that they would STILL get fat!? All the points you make about, all do result in obesity, but all of which can be altered on a behavioural level if people just CHOOSE the right food.
jakestarnes123 2 years ago
The hypothesis you are advocating doesn't hold up to an examination of the evidence.
Rather than repeat myself, I will invite you to read through the comments for many examples of nonbehavioral factors which have been found to affect lipid cycling in fat cells.
I'll also invite you to Google "Gary Taubes." Near the top of the list of links, you'll find a video which explains many of the ways in which the caloric/behavioral hypothesis fails. It's just too simplistic and explains too little.
Urgelt 2 years ago
Taubes, by the way, is a science writer for the peer-reviewed journal "Science."
Pay particular attention to the photos of victims of lipodystrophy which Mr. Taubes shows.
Fat accumulates differentially in all obese persons; cells in some regions more than in others. In lipodystrophy the tendency is most pronounced. Looking at those photos, it's impossible to escape the conclusion that differential accumulation of fat cannot be explained by total caloric intake.
Urgelt 2 years ago
Well maybe the ones lacking self-esteem and full of narrow-mindedness(which compromises the majority), but I can get by just fine without caring what someone thinks I look like. Personally my desire for staying thin is a personal one, for my health is more important to me than impressing people. If I get positive attention from my peers, well that's just a bonus. Anyways I won't believe what you say until I see some peer-reviewed studies on the topic, I suggest you return the favor.
Sparksterfu 2 years ago
It's easy enough to find peer-reviewed studies which demonstrate the complexity of the disease. Browse through the comments; it's come up often in the discussion.
I agree, health is the best focus to have.
Self-esteem is good armor against cruelty. But cruelty does wear a person down if it's continual. Ask any black person... or homosexual... or obese person. Or anyone else who is "different."
As for children, their defenses aren't mature. Cruelty inflicted on them does lasting damage.
Urgelt 2 years ago
No... The majority of fat people are fat because they choose poor diets and a sedatary lifestyle, in other words they're physically lazy...
It's unattractive and shows that they are someone who doesn't take care of themselves...
Of course employers should be able to discriminate on grounds of obesity if they are obligated to pay for their health insurance that's a bad business investment... You should be forced to lose money to be nice to fat people it's simply stupid...
JSparkleZ2 2 years ago
If employers can discriminate against obese persons because of insurance costs, what other medical conditions can employers discriminate against? Any they like?
Or is it simply your revulsion that makes it ok in this one instance? They're ugly, is that it?
You know, the productivity of the American worker has never been so high as it is now. The *majority* of those workers have weight problems. i think you'll need to look deeper than "they're lazy" to explain what's going on.
Urgelt 2 years ago
I wouldn't say that employers are entirely justified in cutting their insurance costs but cancer patients suffer the same fate with employment...
I'm definately refering to their physical laziness, certainly the obese do not engage in the same amount of exercise when they are not working...
On the basis of job performance i wouldn't call overweight people lazy just in their personal life...
JSparkleZ2 2 years ago
Which is cause, and which is effect?
Are obese people ill because they are less active, or less active because they are ill?
What clues does science offer? Has it found the simplicity you expect, or complexity?
Do you care what science has found thus far? Mind you, it's a work in progress; much remains to be understood about obesity. But there are already quite a lot of interesting things science has uncovered.
Do you consider science a valid way to inform your opinion?
Urgelt 2 years ago
I certainly consider science in my thinking but also my experience. I'm passionate about fitness and have been working out for 10 yrs now...
Growing up I had many obese friends who were obervably less active... In later years they began working out with me and have both lost over 75 lbs each...
I'm not saying it's always directly contingent upon lazyness but I find that many times it is...
Bc of their hard work they all look and feel better now and at least seem more fulfilled...
JSparkleZ2 2 years ago
We agree on the importance of physical fitness. Ignoring it is definitely a nail in one's coffin and is a factor - a large factor - in the development of obesity.
But it's just not the whole story.
Since you are interested in the science, here are some search terms to plug into Google (use each with the word "obesity"):
virus
sleep disorder
genetics
coconut
Skip web sites which are selling products (they're biased), and pay close attention to reports of peer-reviewed studies.
Urgelt 2 years ago
And I do understand that some people are obese bc of illness or genetics but I feel obesity is somewhat like lung cancer...
While anyone can get lung cancer for a variety of reasons, the most likely cause for lung cancer is smoking which is a poor lifestyle decision.
Smiliarly i feel that the majority of obese people are that way bc the choose to eat poorly and live less active lives.
If you have any statistics it would help bc i don't, i mainly go off of observation on this one.
JSparkleZ2 2 years ago
Poor lifestyle choices can hurt you in many ways. We agree on that point.
Here are another two Google search terms to add to the list I already provided (use each with the word "obesity"):
intestinal flora
drugs
See if you don't come to the conclusion that there is much more complexity to this subject than you had initially suspected.
These are possibilities not yet ruled out:
Vaccinations against obesity-producing viruses
Yogurt which installs obesity-fighting bacteria in intestines
Urgelt 2 years ago
It's sedentary there chief.
And frankly size is the only thing to which it has become OKAY to be bigoted.
Please don't tell me that you would buy into the WHO's latest little gem too?
XXLSexy2k7 2 years ago
Let me just start by thanking you on that spelling correction, I'm always looking for nitpickers who's time would be better spent teaching 3rd grade english...
Secondly being judgemental is not the same as being big... I don't hate fat people, just the fact that they expect sympathy for poor lifestyle decisions which seem to constitute the main reason for being fat...
Hate to tell you this but it's terribly unattractive and I just won't act like it's not...
JSparkleZ2 2 years ago
Blaming poor lifestyle for Obesity is neglecting every genetic disposition.
Just as an example: In highschool I maintained the busiest schedule possible including marching and football practice. I was EASILY burning 5000calories per day, and yet, even reducing my diet to lettuce, steamed chicken, and water; less than 2500 calories, I was not able to lose any weight.
It is insensitive and while it's not attractive it is also not so easily beaten as you would say.
XXLSexy2k7 2 years ago
I think the old adage still holds true; beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You are making bold remarks, there is no evidence to suggest that the majority of fat people are obese due to personal choice, and notice I said majority. There are other factors that need to be taken into account, like genetics, thyroid problems, and increased levels of cortisol, among others. Hate to tell you this but people don't really care about changing their appearance to placate your superficial idea of beauty.
Sparksterfu 2 years ago
Then tell me why the majority of obese people notice signigicant changes in their weight when they begin being active and eating properly... It's easy to say there are other reasons but those are 2 of the main problems...
And I hate to tell you this but people are obsessed with trying to placate my superficial idea of beauty... If not than the diet/fitness/infomercial industry would be out of business and videos like these wouldn't even be needed.
JSparkleZ2 2 years ago
Obesity is mainly caused by over consumption of Animal Products...let me make this clear. WE ARE NOT DESIGNED TO EAT ANIMALS! The reason people are so fat is because they have deviated from a natural diet. The media and corporate America are half of the problem..the other half is you! STOP EATING MEAT! You will lose the weight and feel much better! Greens are the best thing for you. Make sure that half of your diet is raw as well...raw vegetation is MEDICINE!
RawvegA 2 years ago
So many people think it's simple, but they have such varied ideas as to what it is.
Human physiology is anything but simple, and obesity is physiology gone awry. Diet is certainly part of it, both quality and quantity, but it isn't the whole story.
Hormonal imbalances, cravings, pathogens, toxic loading, cultural influences, sleep deprivation, drugs, and genetics are just examples of things connected by science to obesity.
When a thing is complex, we need to acknowledge complexity.
Urgelt 2 years ago
And incidentally, that is the opinion of a vegetarian - me.
I'm a vegetarian for a number of reasons, one of which is that I think it's better nutrition.
But I have read enough anthropology to be pretty sure that we evolved as opportunistic omnivores, and that fish and animal flesh has been in the hominid diet for millions of years.
What we did not evolve eating is meat that has been produced by industrial agricultural methods. That's a whole other ball game.
Urgelt 2 years ago
Whining about being fat is absolutely pathetic. The obesity epidemic is a modern phenomenon and not an irremovable aspect of society like differing sexes and races. Obesity is not a social justice issue, its a public health issue and should only be approached as such. You should be ashamed for encouraging people to be fat, because you're no better than a person who advocates spreading HIV.
yexey 2 years ago
I would like you to point out the exact place in the video or comment section where he said, "go be fat." You won't be able to because it didn't happen. Also, the HIV/Obesity comparison is ridiculous. YOU should be ashamed for not paying attention.
excellentgerwa 2 years ago
It is rather odd that so many people jump to the conclusion that I am urging people to be fat. I'm against cruelty, not pro-obesity. Why would anyone be in favor of a disease?
It's a crazy world.
Urgelt 2 years ago
If I go around telling people they're not allowed to criticise Pepsi, then many people would assume I'm pro-Pepsi. The same goes for you and obesity. Anti-anti-something is generally considered the same as pro-something.
Obesity is wrong. It is not immutable like gender or race (disregarding Boy George and Michael Jackson). Obesity should be publicly stigmatised, not publicly promoted. If you really wanted to help fat people, you'd post videos promoting weight loss not obesity acceptance.
yexey 2 years ago