The oscilloscope is DSO-5200A 200MHz PC USB Digital Oscilloscope. The power supply is TE-HY3002F-2. The other oscilloscope is a WON PDS5022S 25mhz (the one showing the 244 volts spikes from the driving coil).
You are doing a great work man. I used YOUR idea of the shaft on my design.
OK when you stated the the bulb is 12v 25 watt, it is easy for someone to think that it's a 25 watt load which it is not, it means it puts out an equivalent of a 25 watt of light of a incandescent light bulb. So being a LED lamp, it doesn't take that current to light the bulb. Must always use incandescent bulbs for the test. Keep the good research going.
you're right Richard. I thought I did mention the LED was on the drive site utilizing a "kind of free" power without changing the input requirements. The 25 watts really means that any other kind of LED will burn immediately.
crossing all my 10 fingers that you will succeed with this. At some point i was sceptic that the amount of load is limited until the slowdown ocures. But if even a small amount can be taken out without affecting the speed, then you can put "infinit" amount of gen coils and add up the output. Congrats so far.
Great job this shows how we all can elevate our understanding if we open our minds to all possibility and test the boundaries instead of adhere to them
I'm sure you'll see a lot of wayward advice the nearer you get with this...a stall measure probably.
So much of the original self run demo is now being proven out, that it would be difficult to fit batteries somewhere hidden and keep the same effects as your motor is showing lol
Finally, good luck working on the pick-up coil circuit. What you have right now looks a bit strange to me. You have your pick-up coils coupled to the FWBR with 10 uF capacitors. The capacitors look way to small to me. You are wasting your time if you think some LC resonance is helping you here. That's bullshit. Do your own testing and try different generator circuits. You will get the most output power when you have DC connections and you have a matched load resistor.
I did try many different configurations and ALL does not work as this video shows. Any other configuration that I tried ALWAYS reduced the speed and increased the input power, simple Lenz law. The capacitor are not "bullshit" because they are indeed making the "magic" happen. Did you do this experiment yourself? I am SHOWING the effect, not theorizing. I will make a video showing the breaking of the motor when shorting or loading any coil any other way very soon.
I am just going to repeat what I have posted before: If you want to output the most power possible on the generator side, then a basic pick-up coil to FWBR to load resistor is all you need. A smoothing capacitor can be experimented with also. If your pick-up coil pair measures 4 ohms then using a 4 ohm load resistor should give you the maximum power output. You can try "beating Lenz" with as many tricks as you want to as long as you make serious measurements. You will find there is no win.
not true. If you put a FWBR and a load as you say, with or without a cap, it will stop the motor and cause an increase in input power. Standard knowledge. This video SHOWS that Lenz law is being used to the advantage of the motor. Lenz effect is not eliminated but only retarded. So when the permanent magnet of the rotor would be affected by it it will be actually helped by it allowing the rotor to continue spinning without losses and generating power again on next coil.
Good luck with the experimenting on "using Lenz law to the advantage of the motor" but I don't thing anything real will come from it.
For the motor slowing and the power increasing, for sure below a certain speed the coils are on very long and become purely resistive as opposed to higher RPMs where the L/R time constant of the drive circuit prevents the coils from acting like resistors. Anyway good luck with the testing.
thank you MileHigh. I do appreciate your comments after all you do know your stuff. I am still learning and reporting what I am seeing and measuring. I think on this video I am showing the level of measuring on the input side that is pretty much accurate. On the output side I am not measuring much but roughly.
People with more understanding than me can look at the scope shots and the accurate diagram I posted and the number and explain what is going on.
@plengo Fausto, you are welcome. I am going to tell you right now because you will find out soon that I had a tough debate with Romero on another YouTube thread. I honestly beat the crap out of him and I know you hate that. It was perhaps the one and only time I had to communicate with him and I took advantage of it. Listen, if you accept for a moment that what I say to him is true them my very strong language is justified. If you disagree then I am an asshole.
I hope that you can understand this and I won't do it again. I accused Romero of faking his clips and watching everybody waste their time and money and I used very strong language that is normally inappropriate. I view you as being a victim of his con job and he makes a mockery of the science of electronics and engineering by faking his clips and he is hurting people when he does this. Please try to understand this. I said my piece and it's over now.
I'm watching your clip Fausto and about your fist test where you connect the LED lamp across the drive coils: If you are using Romero's standard drive coils don't forget that he does not have a diode in his design to short out the back-EMF spike from the drive coils when the transistor switches off. Therefore normally the coils whack the transistor with a high voltage pulse. It looks like you are simply redirecting this pulse into your LED lamp. No power change here is normal.
yes and no. When the motor is affected by the output turning on the input LED (cross the driver coil) will increase the power input too. This is something I can not really explain why but I really noticed that it works as you see on the video. Yes the LEDs are fed by the BEMF which is killing the mosfet, so hurting in using the LEDs to have extra light for the same input.
@plengo If you want to save your MOSFET for the long term testing you should add the standard diode to short out that back-EMF pulse. This of course is standard practice.
If your LED lamp has no extra guts to run from 120 AC then it should act like a standard diode and only conduct in one direction. If that's the case then in theory the spike is being redirected into the LED lamp and the spike goes from 400 volts to 12 (whatever) volts. All normal, normal to see no increased pwr consumption.
2nd: Okay I just saw how you show the back-EMF spikes on your scope. I haven't watched the whole clip yet but again I am assuming those spikes are what lit up your LED lamp. Don't forget the high voltage spikes go away when you hook up the LED lamp. So no input power change here is normal. Without the LED lamp in place the high voltage spikes are the famous "lost" energy that you can recover. You recover it by driving the LED lamp. So it is perfectly logical that there is no input change.
btw, when I hoop up the LED across the driving coils the high voltage spikes DO NOT GO AWAY, they are still 244v. Sounds the opposite of what you are saying. I agree that the LEDs would "consume" the power of the BEMF and that either should reduce the voltage spike on the scope or eliminate as you say, BUT they did not. I don't know why.
Okay Fausto I watched the whole clip. For starters, you have to remember that when the output of the FWBR is open-circuit, there is no load on the generator coils. However, if you short the output of the FWBR that is also a case where there is almost no load on the generator coils. A "zero ohm resistor" dissipates no power so it is not a load. I know that's a bit confusing but that's how it works. When you use a real resistor, say a 5-ohm power resistor, then you have a load.
may in theory. In my case I player with many different configurations until I finally got to this point where any load makes no difference on the input, although very little power output. I forgot to show you on the video that shorting ANY of the gen coils will reduce the speed of the motor instantly (Lenz's law) which is not inline with what you just said. I almost zero resitance (coil shorted) will pretty much almost stop the motor, heat up the coils and increase the input power
Okay I acknowledge testing makes a difference. I forgot to mention that when you short the coils out that the resistance in the coils themselves is a load resistor. Just give me credit for trying to help you and give you some ideas without having a setup. Where you are always in danger Fausto is arriving at the conclusion that you want to arrive at. So I am advising caution and double-checking your conclusions with second experiments, etc. You are working with "no magic" here, my opinion.
thanks. Yes, you are correct and I DO take that to heart. I don't want to be in a illusion about this. There is some good evidence based on conventional physics that explain what I am showing here. No magic indeed. Look at this thread and see for yourself, please. (overunity (dot) com/index.php?topic=10841.msg289798#msg289798)
Another thing about your motor that you may not be aware of is that the current consumption when the rotor is say 900 RPM and 800 RPM for the same drive voltage may be almost the same. Try it for yourself. Use something as a brake and apply some light braking to the rotor and watch the current consumption when you lower the RPMs by perhaps 10%. Simple test, what will your results be? Why should it be like this? The answer is quite simple.
The answer is because at 900 RPM or at 800 RPM in both cases the drive circuit might be on say 15% of the time. So 15% on at 900 RPM is the same current consumption as 15% on at 800 RPM. In general terms, (that would have to be verified with testing) it is reasonable to expect that for a certain RPM range the current consumption of the motor will change very little. Therefore when you try different generator loads, the input current consumption will barely change. This was posted on OU.
Fausto, Well done,
Could you please try my idea with the 2 Avramenko plugs
on the coil´s 2 output wires ?
Regards, Stefan.
overunitydotcom 8 months ago
Hi Fausto,
well done !
So with no DC path in the output, only AC coupling you get
no Lenz law effect ?
How much power can you extract this way on one coil pair at about 920 RPM ?
Many thanks for your great work !
Regards, Stefan.
overunitydotcom 8 months ago
awesome !
johncarl43447 8 months ago
Concise and clearly demonstrated. Outstanding work, plengo!
shubus 8 months ago
Well, I just subscribed. Excellent demonstration. What you created is exactly the direction I am headed with my replication, resonant tuned RLC.
Do you describe anywhere what you are using for a PC scope and power supply?
ZeroFossilFuel 8 months ago
@ZeroFossilFuel Who cares!
jcndizo 8 months ago
@jcndizo Obviously you don't care, and I don't care that you don't care. That makes us even.
Have a sparkling day.
ZeroFossilFuel 8 months ago
@ZeroFossilFuel
The oscilloscope is DSO-5200A 200MHz PC USB Digital Oscilloscope. The power supply is TE-HY3002F-2. The other oscilloscope is a WON PDS5022S 25mhz (the one showing the 244 volts spikes from the driving coil).
You are doing a great work man. I used YOUR idea of the shaft on my design.
plengo 8 months ago
OK when you stated the the bulb is 12v 25 watt, it is easy for someone to think that it's a 25 watt load which it is not, it means it puts out an equivalent of a 25 watt of light of a incandescent light bulb. So being a LED lamp, it doesn't take that current to light the bulb. Must always use incandescent bulbs for the test. Keep the good research going.
Richard
hhoforvolts 8 months ago
@hhoforvolts
you're right Richard. I thought I did mention the LED was on the drive site utilizing a "kind of free" power without changing the input requirements. The 25 watts really means that any other kind of LED will burn immediately.
plengo 8 months ago
Excellent effort! A worthwhile project, thank you!!
Kntryhart 8 months ago
Thank you, awesome work, keep it up plz.
All the best.
GuardianZeus21 8 months ago
crossing all my 10 fingers that you will succeed with this. At some point i was sceptic that the amount of load is limited until the slowdown ocures. But if even a small amount can be taken out without affecting the speed, then you can put "infinit" amount of gen coils and add up the output. Congrats so far.
jozsab1 8 months ago
Excellent work, bravo !!
keykhin 8 months ago
Comment removed
keykhin 8 months ago
Excellent research work and demo video Fausto.
Thanks for sharing
Luc
gotoluc 8 months ago
Great job this shows how we all can elevate our understanding if we open our minds to all possibility and test the boundaries instead of adhere to them
DrSaminstine 8 months ago
Excellent demo :)
I'm sure you'll see a lot of wayward advice the nearer you get with this...a stall measure probably.
So much of the original self run demo is now being proven out, that it would be difficult to fit batteries somewhere hidden and keep the same effects as your motor is showing lol
slider2732 8 months ago
Finally, good luck working on the pick-up coil circuit. What you have right now looks a bit strange to me. You have your pick-up coils coupled to the FWBR with 10 uF capacitors. The capacitors look way to small to me. You are wasting your time if you think some LC resonance is helping you here. That's bullshit. Do your own testing and try different generator circuits. You will get the most output power when you have DC connections and you have a matched load resistor.
User2718218 8 months ago
@User2718218
I did try many different configurations and ALL does not work as this video shows. Any other configuration that I tried ALWAYS reduced the speed and increased the input power, simple Lenz law. The capacitor are not "bullshit" because they are indeed making the "magic" happen. Did you do this experiment yourself? I am SHOWING the effect, not theorizing. I will make a video showing the breaking of the motor when shorting or loading any coil any other way very soon.
plengo 8 months ago
I am just going to repeat what I have posted before: If you want to output the most power possible on the generator side, then a basic pick-up coil to FWBR to load resistor is all you need. A smoothing capacitor can be experimented with also. If your pick-up coil pair measures 4 ohms then using a 4 ohm load resistor should give you the maximum power output. You can try "beating Lenz" with as many tricks as you want to as long as you make serious measurements. You will find there is no win.
User2718218 8 months ago
@User2718218
not true. If you put a FWBR and a load as you say, with or without a cap, it will stop the motor and cause an increase in input power. Standard knowledge. This video SHOWS that Lenz law is being used to the advantage of the motor. Lenz effect is not eliminated but only retarded. So when the permanent magnet of the rotor would be affected by it it will be actually helped by it allowing the rotor to continue spinning without losses and generating power again on next coil.
plengo 8 months ago
Good luck with the experimenting on "using Lenz law to the advantage of the motor" but I don't thing anything real will come from it.
For the motor slowing and the power increasing, for sure below a certain speed the coils are on very long and become purely resistive as opposed to higher RPMs where the L/R time constant of the drive circuit prevents the coils from acting like resistors. Anyway good luck with the testing.
User2718218 8 months ago
@User2718218
thank you MileHigh. I do appreciate your comments after all you do know your stuff. I am still learning and reporting what I am seeing and measuring. I think on this video I am showing the level of measuring on the input side that is pretty much accurate. On the output side I am not measuring much but roughly.
People with more understanding than me can look at the scope shots and the accurate diagram I posted and the number and explain what is going on.
Fausto.
plengo 8 months ago
@plengo Fausto, you are welcome. I am going to tell you right now because you will find out soon that I had a tough debate with Romero on another YouTube thread. I honestly beat the crap out of him and I know you hate that. It was perhaps the one and only time I had to communicate with him and I took advantage of it. Listen, if you accept for a moment that what I say to him is true them my very strong language is justified. If you disagree then I am an asshole.
User2718218 8 months ago
I hope that you can understand this and I won't do it again. I accused Romero of faking his clips and watching everybody waste their time and money and I used very strong language that is normally inappropriate. I view you as being a victim of his con job and he makes a mockery of the science of electronics and engineering by faking his clips and he is hurting people when he does this. Please try to understand this. I said my piece and it's over now.
User2718218 8 months ago
@User2718218
Well, hope u learn your lesson and stop thinking you know everything! Eat your own humble pie MH!
nonesounique 8 months ago
Nice. Time to add more coils :-)
marthale7 8 months ago
I'm watching your clip Fausto and about your fist test where you connect the LED lamp across the drive coils: If you are using Romero's standard drive coils don't forget that he does not have a diode in his design to short out the back-EMF spike from the drive coils when the transistor switches off. Therefore normally the coils whack the transistor with a high voltage pulse. It looks like you are simply redirecting this pulse into your LED lamp. No power change here is normal.
User2718218 8 months ago
@User2718218
yes and no. When the motor is affected by the output turning on the input LED (cross the driver coil) will increase the power input too. This is something I can not really explain why but I really noticed that it works as you see on the video. Yes the LEDs are fed by the BEMF which is killing the mosfet, so hurting in using the LEDs to have extra light for the same input.
plengo 8 months ago
@plengo If you want to save your MOSFET for the long term testing you should add the standard diode to short out that back-EMF pulse. This of course is standard practice.
If your LED lamp has no extra guts to run from 120 AC then it should act like a standard diode and only conduct in one direction. If that's the case then in theory the spike is being redirected into the LED lamp and the spike goes from 400 volts to 12 (whatever) volts. All normal, normal to see no increased pwr consumption.
User2718218 8 months ago
2nd: Okay I just saw how you show the back-EMF spikes on your scope. I haven't watched the whole clip yet but again I am assuming those spikes are what lit up your LED lamp. Don't forget the high voltage spikes go away when you hook up the LED lamp. So no input power change here is normal. Without the LED lamp in place the high voltage spikes are the famous "lost" energy that you can recover. You recover it by driving the LED lamp. So it is perfectly logical that there is no input change.
User2718218 8 months ago
@User2718218
btw, when I hoop up the LED across the driving coils the high voltage spikes DO NOT GO AWAY, they are still 244v. Sounds the opposite of what you are saying. I agree that the LEDs would "consume" the power of the BEMF and that either should reduce the voltage spike on the scope or eliminate as you say, BUT they did not. I don't know why.
plengo 8 months ago
Okay Fausto I watched the whole clip. For starters, you have to remember that when the output of the FWBR is open-circuit, there is no load on the generator coils. However, if you short the output of the FWBR that is also a case where there is almost no load on the generator coils. A "zero ohm resistor" dissipates no power so it is not a load. I know that's a bit confusing but that's how it works. When you use a real resistor, say a 5-ohm power resistor, then you have a load.
User2718218 8 months ago
@User2718218
may in theory. In my case I player with many different configurations until I finally got to this point where any load makes no difference on the input, although very little power output. I forgot to show you on the video that shorting ANY of the gen coils will reduce the speed of the motor instantly (Lenz's law) which is not inline with what you just said. I almost zero resitance (coil shorted) will pretty much almost stop the motor, heat up the coils and increase the input power
plengo 8 months ago
Okay I acknowledge testing makes a difference. I forgot to mention that when you short the coils out that the resistance in the coils themselves is a load resistor. Just give me credit for trying to help you and give you some ideas without having a setup. Where you are always in danger Fausto is arriving at the conclusion that you want to arrive at. So I am advising caution and double-checking your conclusions with second experiments, etc. You are working with "no magic" here, my opinion.
User2718218 8 months ago
@User2718218
thanks. Yes, you are correct and I DO take that to heart. I don't want to be in a illusion about this. There is some good evidence based on conventional physics that explain what I am showing here. No magic indeed. Look at this thread and see for yourself, please. (overunity (dot) com/index.php?topic=10841.msg289798#msg289798)
plengo 8 months ago
Another thing about your motor that you may not be aware of is that the current consumption when the rotor is say 900 RPM and 800 RPM for the same drive voltage may be almost the same. Try it for yourself. Use something as a brake and apply some light braking to the rotor and watch the current consumption when you lower the RPMs by perhaps 10%. Simple test, what will your results be? Why should it be like this? The answer is quite simple.
User2718218 8 months ago
The answer is because at 900 RPM or at 800 RPM in both cases the drive circuit might be on say 15% of the time. So 15% on at 900 RPM is the same current consumption as 15% on at 800 RPM. In general terms, (that would have to be verified with testing) it is reasonable to expect that for a certain RPM range the current consumption of the motor will change very little. Therefore when you try different generator loads, the input current consumption will barely change. This was posted on OU.
User2718218 8 months ago
I think you have a typo, 12.4V & 500ma, not 5000ma
psaiipsaii 8 months ago
@psaiipsaii
thanks. I corrected the description.
plengo 8 months ago
good job, thanks for sharing !
psaiipsaii 8 months ago
Is 500mA?
yx630514yx 8 months ago
@yx630514yx
yes.
plengo 8 months ago