You family is on an international flight. A terrorist is in custody with information on this flight that will prevent the bombing of this flight. Would you think it acceptable to "Waterboard" this terrorist to save the lives of your family and others? OR, do you feel it's O.K. to cut the head off of someone with a dull butter knife while filming it.
@Kurtlane Who decides who the terrorists are? Young kids who are picked up in Iraq or Afghanistan resisting the US invaders can only be called terrorists in a fucked up world like ours. If an Iraqi soldier is occupying a city in America and you fight back are you a terrorist?
@shallbeagain, no way, baby. My kids would not grow into murderers.
And if they did, I'd disown them.
They are no freedom fighters; to be a freedom fighterr one has to fight for freedom. Not submission and enslavement.
Your "resisting the US invaders" is promotion of Taliban, al-Qaeda and Saddam's regime - among the cruelest regimes on the planet. It also covers up mass murder of Christians and other minorities, and Muslims as well, repression of women, all sorts of other evils
@shallbeagain, no way, baby. My kids would not grow into murderers.
And if they did, I'd disown them.
They are no freedom fighters; to be a freedom fighterr one has to fight for freedom. Not submission and enslavement.
Your "resisting the US invaders" is promotion of Taliban, al-Qaeda and Saddam's regime - among the cruelest regimes on the planet. It also covers up mass murder of Christians and other minorities, and Muslims as well, repression of women, all sorts of other evils
When 9/11 took place, there were no American troop in Iraq or Afghanistan. Nevertheless, it took place. Which proves once again that evil has to be confronted.
We are good, they are evil, and that's that.
So don't compare Americans in Iraq to Saddam's Iraq occupying America. Compare it to Americans in Nazi Germany.
definitely verified! it was proven it was torture, if someone wants to play semantics or play with words to justify this method of torture they can play that game but they should not expect others to play with them.. definitely torture.
To hell with Christine Aman-Pork. She loves to suck on terrorists' balls. Thiessen has it right, but he can't convince female doucherags like Amanpour who worship the Sky King Barackus Obamacus and the Islamic dictators whose asses he repeatedly kisses.
By the way, I fully endorse torturing scum like KSM and other Jihadist scumbags. Even if they give us the info we need, I think we should beat the living shit out of them and dip their testicles into battery acid.
@Joelomite If that is your belief than you have just also given up any right to complain if and when one of our own US citizens, either a civilian or military member is tortured. We cannot complain what others do when we do the same ourselves. Also, be aware there are few societies in history who torture who do not eventually unleash it on their own citizens. It always starts as a method against an enemy and the definition of who is an enemy gets broader and broader. It's a very slippery slope.
@Joelomite Also, just curious why do you call Amanpour Aman-pork? is that supposed to be an insult b/c you think she is Muslim? If so she isn't Muslim. True her father was from Iran and her mother British. But her father was a Christian, from the Christian minority in Iran.
@xexixk, I was calling her that just because her words are like fat on pork: Bloated and full of nothing but unhealthy substances. Torture is a very touchy subject, but we still can't escape it. True, some captives can reveal info w/o torture, but some I just feel deserve it. Whether it's a Muslim terrorist or a White child rapist who won't speak, I say fry both of them.
@Joelomite I understand the emotional side to your argument about torture, believe me I do. But it's a very slipperly slope. If we do it, we give up our right to complain when someone else does it to our service members or citizens. Also, torture doesn't lead to much but false confessions and false information. You'll tell them whatever they want to hear. Those who torture aren't really interested in truth, but just statements, even if false, which they can later use against you.
@xexixk, at the beginning, it's ALWAYS good to use the right interrogation methods, and if they don't work, step it up. I know for a fact that torture is used in a limited fashion. But as for the Taliban and other militant groups, they could give a damn about information. They just want to torture and maim just because.
There is also "Non-lethal torture." This is torture that is painful in the moment, but without lasting effects, like inserting a pin under the fingernail.
@Joelomite Yes, of course I realize the difference between lethal and non-lethal torture. But still the result is the same, people will say whatever you want to hear, regardless if it is true or not. If you or I we would tell them whatever they wanted to hear after we couldn't take it any more just to get it to stop. I
@Joelomite Imagine this scenaria: a US citizen abroad is arrested by a foreign government and a confession is tortured out of them. They could be guilty or innocently have done something that annoyed authorites there. If we torture, then in such a scenario we have no basis to lodge a complaint. We can't criticise that which we do also. Actually, similar did happen in Saudi Arabia, they tortured confessions out of some British living & working there after a bombing, turned out innocent.
@Joelomite Ah, I get it :-) There's a lot who think's she Muslim b/c of her Iranian heritage and bash her b/c of that. I always say if one want to bash someones b/c of their religion/ethnicity/nationality, etc. then be sure to get it right.
@Joelomite Ah, I get it :-) There's a lot who think's she Muslim b/c of her Iranian heritage and bash her b/c of that. I always say if one want to bash someones b/c of their ethnicity then be sure to get it right.
i saw christopher hitchens get waterboarded.. if he calls it torture, then i think its torture.. look up the video and listen to what he says about it!!
Has Sean Hannity been Waterboarded Yet? He volunteered to Charles Grodin yet he has not the balls to do it even though He has been told 1000 dollars will go to Charity for every sec he survives it. Marc T is a fat Pussy!
Torture is unAMERICAN and outside every ones laws. We had an administration that became as lawless as the terrorist and Mr Obama has not Changed enough of what became the big AMERICAN STain :Torture. Marc is a Newt Gringrich clone!!!!!!!!
Marc Thiessen is an undeniably smug prick with no class. Notice his snide comments while the other guest was speaking, whereas the guest allowed him to speak the whole time. Not only does he rationalize the illegal actions of the Bush Administration to cover the asses of people who broke the law, but he feels no shame for it. He is a disgusting human being and deserves to suffer the wrath of waterboarding just to see how it feels. I don't care that he's not a terrorist... he pushed for it.
So according to these two, anything done with water is waterboarding. I'm drinking a glass of water right now. Is that self waterboarding? Call the cops, I'm torturing myself!
@fjwjr No, you moron, because a) the water you're drinking is not being poured into your mouth and on your face while you are lying down and your head held back, b) your nose is not plugged so that you can't breathe (seeing as how the alternate way of breathing is through the mouth), and c) you're not tied down or held down not able to escape. Why would you compare all of that to simply DRINKING water? Get a clue, genius.
@GstateBALLER925 No, moron, it's not being shackled to the inside of a full water tank either, but she called that "waterboarding". She said that anything done with water is "waterboarding" and torture. Weren't you listening? Get a hearing aide, genius.
Who says that noone watch CNN ??! there is no doubt that why they call tat american's are really dumb ass n why american school system do NOT produce brain anymore ... tats because of idiots like u who deny even the little facts even here by saying that no one watch CNN thou u urself just watched the whole clip of CNN ..... Hahahaha
Marc Thiessen should be ashamed, but, as a spokesman for Jesse Helms for 6 years, he clearly knows no shame.
The US never used torture for 225 years, through revolutionary and civil wars, through 2 world wars, and a 40 year cold war, when the threats to our lives and security were far, far greater than today.
What makes Thiessen and his bosses suddenly so afraid that they abandon all honor and principles and stoop to torture now?
"They bring shame, disgrace and ruin" - George Washington.
Thiessen absolutely OBLITERATED that liberal witch and that phony idiotic professor. Even with them tag-teaming him, speaking over him, and cutting him short, he still managed to expose that Iranian anti-American witch for her lies, and point out that professor's illogical arguments and overall idiocy.
So, Christiana, if you had a terrorist in your custody who you thought had information about an attack that could result in the death of your child, what would YOU do?
nnjhansen, you haven't gotten any youtube replies from me, and I expect the same from you, as no one in their right mind would want email from a waterboarding advocate.
I assume you do not reply simply because you cannot. You do not understand the situation or the law, therefore you are incapable of responding in anything approaching an intelligent manner.
Oh, so you're talking about using waterboarding to pursue a conspiracy theory, not to get a confession of being involved in a conspiracy
A false confession, a supposedly incriminating false disclosure, not a whole lot of difference.
Soldiers aren't asked to incriminate themselves in terroristic war crimes or conspiracies involved therein for which they would presumably be prosecuted.
Can't trust people who compare the interrogations to what is done to servicemen, because they won't say what sort of war crime confession is being sought there, whether the confession is ever used, etc., etc.
The terrorists were not interrogated in order to obtain confessions. They were interrogated to get information that could be used to prevent future attacks.
@nnjhansen Torture doesn't work and have simply betrayed the founding principles of the American constitution - something stronger than all the tanks, guns andf planes. America's reputation for equality and fairness has been severely damaged.
@nnjhansen Excuse me, you can call torture a euphemism like "interrogation"but you CANNOTsay "The terrorists were not interrogated in order to.." because you cannot call them "terrorists" Not just because among the tortured were innocent journalist Sami al-Hajj later released after 6! yrs, without charge, but due to stronger reason: why we got rid of King George...they were not convicted of anything so are at MOST "suspects"..we the rule of law not King Georg dictatorship/police state
2. The persons on which they were used are terrorists.
3. This is not a criminal justice situation, this is war. There is no need to 'charge' a combatant in order to detain them. Combatants are not suspects. Do not confuse two very distinct situations.
@tassiemarketstall 1. The color of the person is irrelevant. The status of the person as a member of an organization covered under the 2001 AUMF would be relevant.
2. US soldiers operate as lawful combatants entitled to the protections afforded prisoners of war under the Geneva Conventions.
3. Suspects held in the criminal justice system are afforded a much higher level of protection than unlawful combatants held in wartime.
Recruitment tools? Is trying terrorists in court and then executing them not a recruitment tool? Are we not making them martyrs by killing them ourselves in a public spectacle execution? Remember, their number one mission goal is to die for the cause, and proceed directly to paradise. How is Obama NOT enticing more martyrdom by publically killing terrorists under the US flag?
5:29 - Looks like she is getting ready to say "That has to be the biggest bunch of bullsh@t I have ever heard!!" - LOL
5:49 - She sounds like she is about 2 seconds from beating this dude's ass.
The Bush administration sounds more and more like a psychopath with the way they spew lie after lie and then justify what they did as lies and each and every former official from it does the same over and over again. Cheney being the mastermind behind this constant justification of lies. Purely sad!!
Evidently there was no understanding of the US waterboarding technique by the idiot Amanpour nor the clueless professor. The Khmer Rouge's (Cambodia 1970s) 'waterboarding' was really drowning (indicated by the S21's mortality rate cited by the guest). Other waterboarding techniques by other countries were often closer to the real drowning end of the spectrum. But then again, what do I know?...I am not a CNN talking head.
Marc T. just said there is no "extreme pain," but refuses to undergo water boarding because it's "incredibly unpleasant." Another glib self-righteous ignorant neocon who somehow feels he's still at all credible or relevant. What a hypocrite asswipe.
IpcressF, you would rather live with the 23 foiled terrorist attacks? Yes, 23 attacks were thwarted, 21 of which through Water-boarding. You are an elitist Pig, vilifying a technique that merely scares someone who should have been shot on site. Fools like you are the enemy, even more than Muslim terrorists, since you are pleased to remove methods that keeps us safe and willingly victimize your neighbors all for your attempt at self-righteousness. IpcressF, piss-ant without a soul.
That was great! Marc T. you are a patriot, Christiane A. you are simply clueless and Phillipe blah blah blah. I love the way Amanpour tries to plow right thorugh the facts as if they don't matter because "there are two of us and only one of you" - yeah that's real journalism there. Keep it up, before long our tax dollars will not only go to pay for lawyers for terrorists, but we will fund their operations if this group of "Progressives" stays in power. She was totally owned by Marc T. - nice job
CNN supports the torture of the American people by protecting the interests of terrorists, assuring them courtrooms as platforms for their propaganda, ending the possibility of detaining them, and removing all means of gaining from them vital information for saving American lives. CNN is a pro-terrorist organization.
CNN did a body language expert on the goofy balloon boy parents who concluded there was deception by the father. He was a powerless person with little money and not much smarts. Why not put the body language expert on these guys and get an opinion. If you watch the defender of torture [enhanced interrogation if you will] I detect deception.
Listen, dumbass, I know you know it hurts your patsy-loving false-flagging chosenut tribal leaders, but:
Watch "9/11: WTC2 Molten metal & "collapse"" and learn how to read glow color for temperature using a real blackbody chart. You do not get stuff glowing far above the melting point of iron by crashing a jet into the towers, but that's what you're seeing. I've heard all the excuses and they're BS.
Having to choose between being burned alive or jump 80 floors to your death is torture.
Waterboarding the barbarian who planned this attack and who may know of others is more than justified.
The jihadists have said they want to kill us by the millions. When we capture known high-level terrorists, it is our DUTY to do all we can to protect our countrymen from being nuked, blown up, beheaded, or burned alive.
Waterboarding has helped us learn about our enemy's plans and prevent attacks.
I believe we should water board every terrorist suspect, I am against letting them off light, they get no rights in my book. Nice put down of Amanpour, she is such a liar.
All CIA needed to do was put the LA plan in the prisoner's cell and then drag the prisoner to interrogators who ask if there's a plan. Of course all soldiers are trained for it. They just have to convince the soldiers they're prisoners locked in a cell first. Easy to do, no doubt. Moron.
Gus, you extra large asshat, it's comparing apples to cow manure no matter how your nonexistent brain slices it for you. I'd ask you to let me give you a slip of paper with one word on it and see how long it takes you, the soldierly pigeon, to puke it out, but I never want to ancounter your ugly ass.
What is the LA "plan" they didn't use? It must be a really clever plan. Probably involves infiltrating the police, media and government so they can actually make it pay off at great expense to the taxpayers and not backfire completely against them at great expense to the taxpayers.
Amanpour is a joke and shockingly biased. I mean, to retreat to the cheap "Do you support torture", the second she hears something she cannot refute is despicable. She got so offended when someone called her out on her lies it was almost funny...the comparisons to Pol Pot's prisons was simply agitprop. Her response seemed to be that since it all involves water, it's all the same. Remember that the next time you're caught in the rain. You're being waterboarded by Mother Nature.
Bad form allowing the "reporter" and the "guest" to gang up on another "guest". Amanpour comes off like a jerk because she allows this. Reporters claim to want to find out the truth but then certain guests can't get a word in edgewise.
if only al qaeda used water boarding on us. you don't die from water boarding. your organs and flesh are not harmed. there's a difference between torture and psychological stress.
What self-respecting "nation" wants outside help? From the US? From zionists? It's just psycho cronyism described in the flowery language of global empire-makers.
I was asking myself if this guy could do the whole interview without adopting the role of a terrorist spokesman and relaying something a supposed terrorist supposedly said.
You must be a good zionist to appreciate the relevance of abortions here.
.... or maybe it just takes a manslaughter conviction you want to forget about, something like that.
Because I mean, what's the point of even creating a fetus if it is only going to be indoctrinated by pink-shirted zionazis or be rejected as less than worthless.
JFK also died to show the world who the terrorists were, how high up the chain they were, and how they could never change but only get worse with the assistance of a co-opted media - books TV, you name it.
shakes her head sadly - the left are such hypocrites - they defend till death the waterboarding of terrorists - yet willfully turn around and legalize holding a child's head inside it's mother - while holding its legs and arms down out side of the mother - then ram a tube into its brain and suck its brains out - if that's not the worst kind of torture I don't know what is - these people aren't even normal....excuse me if I call her a hypocrite!
I agree, abortion is a terrible crime, but that doesn't make torture ok. there really isn't a connection here, not all liberals support abortion and not everyone who opposes torture is a liberal.
What we really need is to determine whether terrorism is a crime or an act of war. Since most of these do not occur in countries in a state of war what does that mean? As far as being to arrest and detain that is a given-there must be evidence. Practices of interrogation are clearly defined by both Geneva and our own laws.
Oh, so the CIA only does does good stuff. Got it. Hey, that's a really nice shirt, raw marrow, very official looking. Your breath smells like cannibal crap though.
who said I'm American?? You don't need to be an American to fear these crazy fucking Muslims
You want to know what real torture is?? go and visit Evin prison in Tehran Iran where young student protesters are being raped and Tortured, Islamic Republic style, right at this moment. Several of them have even died in prison from the severity of the pain and injury inflicted :/
Who cares what some redcoat thinks!! Waterboarding isn't torture... I think that realk torture should be used against people who are guilty of killing innocent people.
I say they should rip off the toes and fingers of the muslim bastard terrorists. Gouge out their eyes and stick in a hot poker to help with the pain if they don't get up the information....which they did with waterboarding. So if they call it torture like those pansy liberals do then screw them....torture their asses to death then drop a bomb on the middle east and pull the curtain. Cheap gas then. Don't send me ur replies either liberal. Screw you!!!!
Harper's Scott Horton points out Thiessen's BS regarding Geneva:
"He then shows he knows nothing about the Geneva Conventions by claiming that they apply only to prisoners of law [sic; likely, war]. . . . All the Geneva Conventions contain a humanitarian baseline of protections available to everyone, including persons that the president labels as unlawful enemy combatants."
Fact: Going ape on people in our custody makes us less safe by recruiting more enemies. Torture is anti-American.
The US doesn't consider tasering its own citizens as torture, but would you volunteer to be tasered?
Why should he?
Amanpour got caught spreading falsehoods. You can see it on her face. You see how she tries to divert the conversation. She is willfully wrong. AND Obama makes the world more dangerous by giving terrorists a win-win situation.
tasing/shooting/assaulting dangerous or fleeing suspects is one thing. If you were bound or confined and repeatedly tased (electrocuted!!!) in order to elicit confessions or information, would you not consider it torture?
sorry, I know it isn't your main point, but I think it is terribly wrong and I hate to see it repeated. (edited to correct misspelling)
@beethovenqueen Sportslap already dealt with the logical falsehood in your reply. If I volunteer to be tasered is it torture? No, obviously not. If someone ties me down and tasers me over and over and over again against my will, is it torture? Obviously yes.
And Amanpour was right. Thiessen is a liar and a wimp.
Because it is terribly unpleasant. Is everything that is unpleasant torture? I would not want to be confined in the county lock up over night. Is being locked up in it torture?
Look, if waterboarding's not torture would Thiessen be willing to claim that no matter how much I waterboarded him he would continue to claim it's not torture?
If it's not that bad, how would force someone to talk? If it is that bad, then it's torture.
I don't know if you really need to be told this, or if you are pretending to be ignorant, but torture is the use of pain (physical or psychological) inflicted on a person in order to force that person to yield information or a confession.
SO, if you were subject to a technique designed to inflict mental anguish in attempt to gain information, THAT would be torture.
No, torture, under US law, is the intentional infliction of "'severe' physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person"
Not all discomfort is severe pain (either physical or mental) .
Torture, under US law, is also a specific intent crime. You have to intend to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering. As the interrogators were provided pages of guidance specifically intended to ensure that the line was not crossed, you cannot argue they intended to cross that line.
yes, that is Yoo's specious argument. Since you are assured you are not committing torture, it can't be proved that you intended to torture. But once you get past the dissembling you have to realize...
What did they think they were doing? Were they pouring water on detainees' faces just for fun? Or were they subjecting a person to mental pain, which would motivate the person to give in to the interrogators? Waterboarding has long been recognized as torture and a crime, including U.S. law. We have prosecuted and executed Japanese soldiers for the practice, and we have prosecuted a Texan sheriff for waterboarding.
They intended to make the terrorist uncomfortable enough that he would talk without resorting to torture. Surely you will acknowledge that there is an area between simple questioning and the infliction of "severe" pain.
The technique used by the Japanese was different than that used in SERE training or against the terrorists.
It is never appropriate to use against a US criminal defendant. No level of physical coercion is.
If the argument is specious, you may want to let the Obama Justice Department know as well as 10 judges of the 3d Circuit as they argued and affirmed that theory in Demjanjuk and Pierre respectively
The waterboarding that Yukio Asano was convicted for (a Japanese soldier) was extremely similiar to SERE training or torture of terrorists. In addition, look back to why SERE was created. Our soldiers needed a training program to learn to resist the efforts of unethical governments. Ask SERE trainers, such as Malcom Nance, whether waterboarding is torture.
The technique used by the Japanese often resulted in death. That is because the person being waterboarded was either placed flat or at an angle that put his lungs below his head. The technique used in SERE and on the terrorists places the head head below the lungs. Big difference.
Are SERE trainers attorneys? Judges? What qualifications does Malcom Nance have to interpret a law?
the reasoning you use relies very heavily on the idea that interrogators believe that the use of controlled drowning constitutes only a discomfort, rather than a terrifying and agonizing experience. That is the reason I bring up Malcom Nance, and SERE interrogators. It is widely understood by these professionals what happens in a waterboarding.
For the record, I was waterboarded. It is not something I would want to do again nor would I want anyone I love to go through it. That does NOT make it torture. Terrifying and agonizing is not the standard. Severe physical or mental pain is. Now if you or Nance believe you have a better definition for either 'severe pain' or 'torture' the proper people to discuss it with is Congress.
We waterboard our own men, we do not torture our own men.
Severe pain is the standard. That means not just pain, not just a lot of pain, but severe pain. The term is subjective but attorneys have to try to quantify it. One way they do that is by seeing if the phrase is further defined elsewhere in the law. In this case it had been, severe pain was defined as that associated with serious impairment of bodily functions, organ failure, or death. So, no agonizing does not meet the definition as you have merely replaced one subjective term with another
Severe pain was defined by Yoo, in a legally unsound and repudiated memo. He referred to the phrase "severe pain" which is in a federal statute which regulates insurance benefits under Medicare. It defines "emergency medical situation" as symptoms including severe pain, and would cause loss of health, serious impairment of bodily functions, or serious dysfunction of any body organ or part.
so "severe pain" is not defined as serious impairment of bodily functions, organ failure, or death. Severe pain and the latter are both symptoms of an emergency medical condition under 42 U.S.C. 1395.
So without that, you have to come back to the other definitions Yoo referred to in the Bybee memo, the dictionary definitions, (different from definitions in the law which are policy oriented)
"Symptoms of sufficient severity (including severe pain) such that a prudent lay person... could reasonably expect the absence of immediate medical attention to RESULT in - placing the the health of the individual... (i) is serious jeopardy, (ii) serious impairment to bodily functions, or (iii) serious dysfunction of any bodily organ or part."
Severe pain is one of the type of pain related to serious impairment of bodily functions, organ failure, or death.
Severe is "inflicting discomfort or pain hard to endure; sharp; afflictive; distressing; violent" as Yoo writes, which is a much lower standard than organ failure or death like the out-of-the-blue definition.
The term emergency medical condition means a medical condition manifesting itself by acute symptoms of sufficient severity (including severe pain) such that a prudent layperson, who possesses an average knowledge of health and medicine, could reasonably expect the absence of immediate medical attention to result in— ((i) is serious jeopardy, (ii) serious impairment to bodily functions, or (iii) serious dysfunction of any bodily organ or part.")
How does that change what I wrote? It is clear that under this section of the US Code severe pain is equated with that experienced when serious impairment of bodily functions, organ failure, or death is likely to result.
The reasonable person's expectation of serious impairment of bodily functions, organ failure, or death is based on the severity of the pain.
Christiane should kill herself
BirdSqueezer 3 weeks ago
You family is on an international flight. A terrorist is in custody with information on this flight that will prevent the bombing of this flight. Would you think it acceptable to "Waterboard" this terrorist to save the lives of your family and others? OR, do you feel it's O.K. to cut the head off of someone with a dull butter knife while filming it.
Twom44 2 months ago
I watch Ms Amanpour every Sunday. She is an idiot.
jscottupton 3 months ago
@jscottupton But less so than the advocate for torture.
22grena 2 months ago
I love Amanpour
joseaod15 5 months ago
Another idiotic conversatin about rights of terrorists.
Go on like this, guys, adn they will win and build their caliphate on our bones.
Kurtlane 6 months ago
@Kurtlane Who decides who the terrorists are? Young kids who are picked up in Iraq or Afghanistan resisting the US invaders can only be called terrorists in a fucked up world like ours. If an Iraqi soldier is occupying a city in America and you fight back are you a terrorist?
shallbeagain 3 months ago
@shallbeagain, no way, baby. My kids would not grow into murderers.
And if they did, I'd disown them.
They are no freedom fighters; to be a freedom fighterr one has to fight for freedom. Not submission and enslavement.
Your "resisting the US invaders" is promotion of Taliban, al-Qaeda and Saddam's regime - among the cruelest regimes on the planet. It also covers up mass murder of Christians and other minorities, and Muslims as well, repression of women, all sorts of other evils
(cont)
Kurtlane 3 months ago
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@shallbeagain, no way, baby. My kids would not grow into murderers.
And if they did, I'd disown them.
They are no freedom fighters; to be a freedom fighterr one has to fight for freedom. Not submission and enslavement.
Your "resisting the US invaders" is promotion of Taliban, al-Qaeda and Saddam's regime - among the cruelest regimes on the planet. It also covers up mass murder of Christians and other minorities, and Muslims as well, repression of women, all sorts of other evils
(cont)
Kurtlane 3 months ago
In short, it is plain evil.
When 9/11 took place, there were no American troop in Iraq or Afghanistan. Nevertheless, it took place. Which proves once again that evil has to be confronted.
We are good, they are evil, and that's that.
So don't compare Americans in Iraq to Saddam's Iraq occupying America. Compare it to Americans in Nazi Germany.
Kurtlane 3 months ago
definitely verified! it was proven it was torture, if someone wants to play semantics or play with words to justify this method of torture they can play that game but they should not expect others to play with them.. definitely torture.
abe0101 10 months ago
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appositiongh 1 year ago
Loud Mouth Bitch
propatria431 1 year ago
To hell with Christine Aman-Pork. She loves to suck on terrorists' balls. Thiessen has it right, but he can't convince female doucherags like Amanpour who worship the Sky King Barackus Obamacus and the Islamic dictators whose asses he repeatedly kisses.
By the way, I fully endorse torturing scum like KSM and other Jihadist scumbags. Even if they give us the info we need, I think we should beat the living shit out of them and dip their testicles into battery acid.
Joelomite 1 year ago
@Joelomite If that is your belief than you have just also given up any right to complain if and when one of our own US citizens, either a civilian or military member is tortured. We cannot complain what others do when we do the same ourselves. Also, be aware there are few societies in history who torture who do not eventually unleash it on their own citizens. It always starts as a method against an enemy and the definition of who is an enemy gets broader and broader. It's a very slippery slope.
xexixk 1 year ago
@Joelomite Also, just curious why do you call Amanpour Aman-pork? is that supposed to be an insult b/c you think she is Muslim? If so she isn't Muslim. True her father was from Iran and her mother British. But her father was a Christian, from the Christian minority in Iran.
xexixk 1 year ago
@xexixk, I was calling her that just because her words are like fat on pork: Bloated and full of nothing but unhealthy substances. Torture is a very touchy subject, but we still can't escape it. True, some captives can reveal info w/o torture, but some I just feel deserve it. Whether it's a Muslim terrorist or a White child rapist who won't speak, I say fry both of them.
Joelomite 1 year ago
Comment removed
xexixk 1 year ago
@Joelomite I understand the emotional side to your argument about torture, believe me I do. But it's a very slipperly slope. If we do it, we give up our right to complain when someone else does it to our service members or citizens. Also, torture doesn't lead to much but false confessions and false information. You'll tell them whatever they want to hear. Those who torture aren't really interested in truth, but just statements, even if false, which they can later use against you.
xexixk 1 year ago
@xexixk, at the beginning, it's ALWAYS good to use the right interrogation methods, and if they don't work, step it up. I know for a fact that torture is used in a limited fashion. But as for the Taliban and other militant groups, they could give a damn about information. They just want to torture and maim just because.
There is also "Non-lethal torture." This is torture that is painful in the moment, but without lasting effects, like inserting a pin under the fingernail.
Joelomite 1 year ago
@Joelomite Yes, of course I realize the difference between lethal and non-lethal torture. But still the result is the same, people will say whatever you want to hear, regardless if it is true or not. If you or I we would tell them whatever they wanted to hear after we couldn't take it any more just to get it to stop. I
xexixk 1 year ago
@Joelomite Imagine this scenaria: a US citizen abroad is arrested by a foreign government and a confession is tortured out of them. They could be guilty or innocently have done something that annoyed authorites there. If we torture, then in such a scenario we have no basis to lodge a complaint. We can't criticise that which we do also. Actually, similar did happen in Saudi Arabia, they tortured confessions out of some British living & working there after a bombing, turned out innocent.
xexixk 1 year ago
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@Joelomite Ah, I get it :-) There's a lot who think's she Muslim b/c of her Iranian heritage and bash her b/c of that. I always say if one want to bash someones b/c of their religion/ethnicity/nationality, etc. then be sure to get it right.
xexixk 1 year ago
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@Joelomite Ah, I get it :-) There's a lot who think's she Muslim b/c of her Iranian heritage and bash her b/c of that. I always say if one want to bash someones b/c of their ethnicity then be sure to get it right.
xexixk 1 year ago
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Joelomite 1 year ago
Amanpour is a mother fucker working for Islamic republic of Iran,she is anti iranian
ali152jc 1 year ago
Amanpour is a mother fucker working for Islamic republic of Iran
ali152jc 1 year ago
i saw christopher hitchens get waterboarded.. if he calls it torture, then i think its torture.. look up the video and listen to what he says about it!!
chrismx24 1 year ago
Has Sean Hannity been Waterboarded Yet? He volunteered to Charles Grodin yet he has not the balls to do it even though He has been told 1000 dollars will go to Charity for every sec he survives it. Marc T is a fat Pussy!
ajushi10 1 year ago
Torture is unAMERICAN and outside every ones laws. We had an administration that became as lawless as the terrorist and Mr Obama has not Changed enough of what became the big AMERICAN STain :Torture. Marc is a Newt Gringrich clone!!!!!!!!
ajushi10 1 year ago
Marc Thiessen is an undeniably smug prick with no class. Notice his snide comments while the other guest was speaking, whereas the guest allowed him to speak the whole time. Not only does he rationalize the illegal actions of the Bush Administration to cover the asses of people who broke the law, but he feels no shame for it. He is a disgusting human being and deserves to suffer the wrath of waterboarding just to see how it feels. I don't care that he's not a terrorist... he pushed for it.
GstateBALLER925 1 year ago
@GstateBALLER925 Everything you said is true. That doesn't change the fact that CNN are liars.
heatsketch 1 year ago
So according to these two, anything done with water is waterboarding. I'm drinking a glass of water right now. Is that self waterboarding? Call the cops, I'm torturing myself!
fjwjr 1 year ago
@fjwjr No, you moron, because a) the water you're drinking is not being poured into your mouth and on your face while you are lying down and your head held back, b) your nose is not plugged so that you can't breathe (seeing as how the alternate way of breathing is through the mouth), and c) you're not tied down or held down not able to escape. Why would you compare all of that to simply DRINKING water? Get a clue, genius.
GstateBALLER925 1 year ago
@GstateBALLER925 No, moron, it's not being shackled to the inside of a full water tank either, but she called that "waterboarding". She said that anything done with water is "waterboarding" and torture. Weren't you listening? Get a hearing aide, genius.
fjwjr 1 year ago
@fjwjr Go shove your head up a hippo's ass, fuckface.
loonmaniac 1 year ago
@loonmaniac Your response is a classic case of a LIbEral with no defendable position.
fjwjr 1 year ago
@fjwjr Out of thousands of sperm, you were the fastest.
loonmaniac 1 year ago
Theissen is a piece of fucking shit.
loonmaniac 1 year ago
hey theissen gulf war nuff said now SHUT THE FUCK UP
Advandnaruto 1 year ago
I just don't believe anything this Thiessen guy says.
Why should I? These are the people that said we needed to go to war with Iraq because of WMD, including nuclear weapons.
Fuck their lies.
neojournalist 1 year ago
We did surely abandon our honor when we got the shaft of the bushes- Now-we suck it up, apologize to the world and pick up the pieces and press on!
RockyMissouri 2 years ago
She's fabulous! The Cheneys and this dickwad Theissen aid terrorists--EVERYTIME THEY OPEN THEIR FUCKING
MOUTHS
RockyMissouri 2 years ago
if cnn wants to be the middle of the road boring no one side channel, fail
DeRocco21 2 years ago
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she's horrible commentator. She should stick to on the ground reporting- the facts please...just the facts honey:)
chumlee333 2 years ago
This is why no one watches CNN.
Questfortruth86 2 years ago
Who says that noone watch CNN ??! there is no doubt that why they call tat american's are really dumb ass n why american school system do NOT produce brain anymore ... tats because of idiots like u who deny even the little facts even here by saying that no one watch CNN thou u urself just watched the whole clip of CNN ..... Hahahaha
sLaVEsMaSTeR 1 year ago
damnit , u r the one who still watch CNN even on Youtube !!
sLaVEsMaSTeR 1 year ago
Christiane and that other chick on the video link got totally pwned.
starykazol 2 years ago
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Marc Thiessen should be ashamed, but, as a spokesman for Jesse Helms for 6 years, he clearly knows no shame.
The US never used torture for 225 years, through revolutionary and civil wars, through 2 world wars, and a 40 year cold war, when the threats to our lives and security were far, far greater than today.
What makes Thiessen and his bosses suddenly so afraid that they abandon all honor and principles and stoop to torture now?
"They bring shame, disgrace and ruin" - George Washington.
OregonPerspective 2 years ago
Thiessen absolutely OBLITERATED that liberal witch and that phony idiotic professor. Even with them tag-teaming him, speaking over him, and cutting him short, he still managed to expose that Iranian anti-American witch for her lies, and point out that professor's illogical arguments and overall idiocy.
KinglyNumbaOne 2 years ago
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Who gave Amanpour a tv show?? She has always been a biased old c*nt. I remember her terrorist sympathizing all the way back to the Carter yrs. Geesh.
chifour66 2 years ago
So, Christiana, if you had a terrorist in your custody who you thought had information about an attack that could result in the death of your child, what would YOU do?
finitube 2 years ago 3
The woman is an idiot that give women everywhere a bad name!
theater1961 2 years ago
nnjhansen, you haven't gotten any youtube replies from me, and I expect the same from you, as no one in their right mind would want email from a waterboarding advocate.
CACBCCCU 2 years ago
I assume you do not reply simply because you cannot. You do not understand the situation or the law, therefore you are incapable of responding in anything approaching an intelligent manner.
nnjhansen 2 years ago 8
Oh, so you're talking about using waterboarding to pursue a conspiracy theory, not to get a confession of being involved in a conspiracy
A false confession, a supposedly incriminating false disclosure, not a whole lot of difference.
Soldiers aren't asked to incriminate themselves in terroristic war crimes or conspiracies involved therein for which they would presumably be prosecuted.
CACBCCCU 2 years ago
Marc you rock!
Get out there more often. You are a great spokesman for the truth.
PnutGalry 2 years ago 2
Can't trust people who compare the interrogations to what is done to servicemen, because they won't say what sort of war crime confession is being sought there, whether the confession is ever used, etc., etc.
CACBCCCU 2 years ago
The terrorists were not interrogated in order to obtain confessions. They were interrogated to get information that could be used to prevent future attacks.
nnjhansen 2 years ago 12
@nnjhansen torture gets false confessions, not information.
MsJCBurke 1 year ago
@MsJCBurke The information obtained was confirmed by other sources.
These measures were not torture.
nnjhansen 1 year ago
@nnjhansen Torture doesn't work and have simply betrayed the founding principles of the American constitution - something stronger than all the tanks, guns andf planes. America's reputation for equality and fairness has been severely damaged.
22grena 2 months ago
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@22grena 1. The methods used were not torture.
2. The methods used did work.
3. American lives were saved, I could not care less if you or anyone else thinks less of us for having saved them.
nnjhansen 2 months ago
@nnjhansen Excuse me, you can call torture a euphemism like "interrogation"but you CANNOTsay "The terrorists were not interrogated in order to.." because you cannot call them "terrorists" Not just because among the tortured were innocent journalist Sami al-Hajj later released after 6! yrs, without charge, but due to stronger reason: why we got rid of King George...they were not convicted of anything so are at MOST "suspects"..we the rule of law not King Georg dictatorship/police state
econdemocracy 1 month ago
@econdemocracy 1. The procedures used were not torture.
2. The persons on which they were used are terrorists.
3. This is not a criminal justice situation, this is war. There is no need to 'charge' a combatant in order to detain them. Combatants are not suspects. Do not confuse two very distinct situations.
nnjhansen 1 month ago
@nnjhansen 1.Does that apply to a white U.S citizen who tries to bomb a building in the U.S ?
2. And does it apply to U.S soldiers abroad if captured and considered terrorists?
tassiemarketstall 1 month ago
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@tassiemarketstall 1. The color of the person is irrelevant. The status of the person as a member of an organization covered under the 2001 AUMF would be relevant.
2. US soldiers operate as lawful combatants entitled to the protections afforded prisoners of war under the Geneva Conventions.
3. Suspects held in the criminal justice system are afforded a much higher level of protection than unlawful combatants held in wartime.
nnjhansen 1 month ago
@nnjhansen Also why cant these "procedures" be used on suspected murders,rapist & child killers if they are ok? Where do you draw the line?
tassiemarketstall 1 month ago
Of course the waterboarding tapes had to be destroyed. They would show it's a sham.
CACBCCCU 2 years ago
What sorts of false confessions are extracted by waterboarding US servicemen?
CACBCCCU 2 years ago
For the umpteenth time, what are servicemen being forced to confess during waterboarding?
CACBCCCU 2 years ago
This is why no one watches CNN
marzutraII 2 years ago
I think these terrorists deserve everything and more.
rebecacottam 2 years ago
Recruitment tools? Is trying terrorists in court and then executing them not a recruitment tool? Are we not making them martyrs by killing them ourselves in a public spectacle execution? Remember, their number one mission goal is to die for the cause, and proceed directly to paradise. How is Obama NOT enticing more martyrdom by publically killing terrorists under the US flag?
divisioneight 2 years ago
5:29 - Looks like she is getting ready to say "That has to be the biggest bunch of bullsh@t I have ever heard!!" - LOL
5:49 - She sounds like she is about 2 seconds from beating this dude's ass.
The Bush administration sounds more and more like a psychopath with the way they spew lie after lie and then justify what they did as lies and each and every former official from it does the same over and over again. Cheney being the mastermind behind this constant justification of lies. Purely sad!!
jamvan2k 2 years ago
Evidently there was no understanding of the US waterboarding technique by the idiot Amanpour nor the clueless professor. The Khmer Rouge's (Cambodia 1970s) 'waterboarding' was really drowning (indicated by the S21's mortality rate cited by the guest). Other waterboarding techniques by other countries were often closer to the real drowning end of the spectrum. But then again, what do I know?...I am not a CNN talking head.
sae1080 2 years ago 3
Marc T. just said there is no "extreme pain," but refuses to undergo water boarding because it's "incredibly unpleasant." Another glib self-righteous ignorant neocon who somehow feels he's still at all credible or relevant. What a hypocrite asswipe.
IpcressF 2 years ago
Everything that is incredibly unpleasant causes severe pain?
nnjhansen 2 years ago
IpcressF, you would rather live with the 23 foiled terrorist attacks? Yes, 23 attacks were thwarted, 21 of which through Water-boarding. You are an elitist Pig, vilifying a technique that merely scares someone who should have been shot on site. Fools like you are the enemy, even more than Muslim terrorists, since you are pleased to remove methods that keeps us safe and willingly victimize your neighbors all for your attempt at self-righteousness. IpcressF, piss-ant without a soul.
dlkamps 2 years ago
That's pure fantasy. You should probably do your homework and stop fucking around on YouTube, kid, you need to keep working on that education.
IpcressF 2 years ago
Chaumont, you are full of shit. Do you have anything to back up that assertion? Figures. Neocons, always failing.
IpcressF 2 years ago
Liberals never care if they are wrong or right. They want you to see there good intensions.
chaumont20 2 years ago
That was great! Marc T. you are a patriot, Christiane A. you are simply clueless and Phillipe blah blah blah. I love the way Amanpour tries to plow right thorugh the facts as if they don't matter because "there are two of us and only one of you" - yeah that's real journalism there. Keep it up, before long our tax dollars will not only go to pay for lawyers for terrorists, but we will fund their operations if this group of "Progressives" stays in power. She was totally owned by Marc T. - nice job
rufolo9 2 years ago 4
CNN supports the torture of the American people by protecting the interests of terrorists, assuring them courtrooms as platforms for their propaganda, ending the possibility of detaining them, and removing all means of gaining from them vital information for saving American lives. CNN is a pro-terrorist organization.
jacero10 2 years ago
CNN did a body language expert on the goofy balloon boy parents who concluded there was deception by the father. He was a powerless person with little money and not much smarts. Why not put the body language expert on these guys and get an opinion. If you watch the defender of torture [enhanced interrogation if you will] I detect deception.
stevelaudig 2 years ago
At one point in the lengthy spill there were many gallons of YELLOW-HOT liquid spilling out in under five seconds, see:
"9/11: South Tower Molten Metal & Collapse"
It's far above the melting point of iron, ZERO DIFFERENCE IN VISUAL APPEARANCE from, say for example, fresh THERMITE reaction spill-off.
Don't come with that lame waterboy inbred AL-CIA-DUHH bush crap. But you will, it's how your mommy raised you.
CACBCCCU 2 years ago
Listen, dumbass, I know you know it hurts your patsy-loving false-flagging chosenut tribal leaders, but:
Watch "9/11: WTC2 Molten metal & "collapse"" and learn how to read glow color for temperature using a real blackbody chart. You do not get stuff glowing far above the melting point of iron by crashing a jet into the towers, but that's what you're seeing. I've heard all the excuses and they're BS.
CACBCCCU 2 years ago
Having to choose between being burned alive or jump 80 floors to your death is torture.
Waterboarding the barbarian who planned this attack and who may know of others is more than justified.
The jihadists have said they want to kill us by the millions. When we capture known high-level terrorists, it is our DUTY to do all we can to protect our countrymen from being nuked, blown up, beheaded, or burned alive.
Waterboarding has helped us learn about our enemy's plans and prevent attacks.
caraclaudel 2 years ago
I believe we should water board every terrorist suspect, I am against letting them off light, they get no rights in my book. Nice put down of Amanpour, she is such a liar.
wonderthinker 2 years ago
Of course the waterboarding tapes are gone.
"For the tenth time, it's Al-C.I.A.-duhh you pinhead bastards" would not sound good on tape.
CACBCCCU 2 years ago
All CIA needed to do was put the LA plan in the prisoner's cell and then drag the prisoner to interrogators who ask if there's a plan. Of course all soldiers are trained for it. They just have to convince the soldiers they're prisoners locked in a cell first. Easy to do, no doubt. Moron.
CACBCCCU 2 years ago
Gus, you extra large asshat, it's comparing apples to cow manure no matter how your nonexistent brain slices it for you. I'd ask you to let me give you a slip of paper with one word on it and see how long it takes you, the soldierly pigeon, to puke it out, but I never want to ancounter your ugly ass.
CACBCCCU 2 years ago
What sort of intelligence do they get from soldiers by waterboarding, a confession that wednesday's mystery meat always stinks?
CACBCCCU 2 years ago
CACBCCCU, no, you idiot. All Navy Seals get waterboarding as part of their training to know what to expect if the enemy interrogates them.
gusfromflorida 2 years ago
Maybe Al Kayder is going to use HAARP technology to tickle crippled people's epistemologies when they climb too high on pink elephants.
CACBCCCU 2 years ago
What is the LA plan, find the Silverstein of the west coast and have him "pull it" on the phone?
CACBCCCU 2 years ago
What is the LA "plan" they didn't use? It must be a really clever plan. Probably involves infiltrating the police, media and government so they can actually make it pay off at great expense to the taxpayers and not backfire completely against them at great expense to the taxpayers.
CACBCCCU 2 years ago
Amanpour is a joke and shockingly biased. I mean, to retreat to the cheap "Do you support torture", the second she hears something she cannot refute is despicable. She got so offended when someone called her out on her lies it was almost funny...the comparisons to Pol Pot's prisons was simply agitprop. Her response seemed to be that since it all involves water, it's all the same. Remember that the next time you're caught in the rain. You're being waterboarded by Mother Nature.
beauceron 2 years ago
Bad form allowing the "reporter" and the "guest" to gang up on another "guest". Amanpour comes off like a jerk because she allows this. Reporters claim to want to find out the truth but then certain guests can't get a word in edgewise.
computerwizard1959 2 years ago
Go Marc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She is SUCH a JERK!
vigilannie2 2 years ago
Bravo Enhanced Interrogation! I'm buying the book- and the liberal professor should really get off his cushy sofa and waterboard Amanpour for sport!
kobecat4 2 years ago
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DazeyLin 2 years ago
Ha ha! Amanpour is such an idiot. I loved seeing her get all flustered. All she can do is try and shout down her guest.
She's comparing what went on at Gitmo to that S-21 prison in Phnom Phen? That's like comparing Auschwitz to a county lock-up.
Then again, Amanpour doesn't really have much credibility these days anyway, so who really cares what she has to say.
manorrd 2 years ago
What is it about these freaks from the Bush era.....It's ok to waterboard...it's not torture...but don't do it to us please because we don't like it.
charlie44441 2 years ago
@charlie44441 - Are you retarded? We have TV shows That show American citizens getting worse than that every day!!!! Dolt!!
Mrcharliebobo 2 years ago
charlie, those enemies of the west will use torture if we use it or not.
the people running the united states in 2004 are exactly the same people running it now, except the spokesman changed color.
robertborak 2 years ago
if only al qaeda used water boarding on us. you don't die from water boarding. your organs and flesh are not harmed. there's a difference between torture and psychological stress.
i bet youre pro abortion too...how ironic
nomopoly 2 years ago
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DazeyLin 2 years ago
Mark is not only a tool, he is also a coward.
moali68 2 years ago
Don't forget to give --Hope for Haiti Now.
JuanVoyce 2 years ago
Amanpour owned 'em.
sf2fs 2 years ago
What self-respecting "nation" wants outside help? From the US? From zionists? It's just psycho cronyism described in the flowery language of global empire-makers.
CACBCCCU 2 years ago
Its pronounced Kmer not Kamer. Dumbass.
Churchx77 2 years ago
I was asking myself if this guy could do the whole interview without adopting the role of a terrorist spokesman and relaying something a supposed terrorist supposedly said.
NOoooooo, he couldn't, OF COURSE.
CACBCCCU 2 years ago
You must be a good zionist to appreciate the relevance of abortions here.
.... or maybe it just takes a manslaughter conviction you want to forget about, something like that.
Because I mean, what's the point of even creating a fetus if it is only going to be indoctrinated by pink-shirted zionazis or be rejected as less than worthless.
CACBCCCU 2 years ago
JFK also died to show the world who the terrorists were, how high up the chain they were, and how they could never change but only get worse with the assistance of a co-opted media - books TV, you name it.
CACBCCCU 2 years ago
shakes her head sadly - the left are such hypocrites - they defend till death the waterboarding of terrorists - yet willfully turn around and legalize holding a child's head inside it's mother - while holding its legs and arms down out side of the mother - then ram a tube into its brain and suck its brains out - if that's not the worst kind of torture I don't know what is - these people aren't even normal....excuse me if I call her a hypocrite!
chinisup 2 years ago
I agree, abortion is a terrible crime, but that doesn't make torture ok. there really isn't a connection here, not all liberals support abortion and not everyone who opposes torture is a liberal.
SportsLap 2 years ago
This author should have some of those "methods" tried on him before writing nonchalantly about something someone else experienced.
TheFolkUtopia 2 years ago
JFK also died to show the world how the Bushes and their backers operate.
CACBCCCU 2 years ago
JFK died to show the world how the CIA does coverups.
CACBCCCU 2 years ago
What we really need is to determine whether terrorism is a crime or an act of war. Since most of these do not occur in countries in a state of war what does that mean? As far as being to arrest and detain that is a given-there must be evidence. Practices of interrogation are clearly defined by both Geneva and our own laws.
TheFolkUtopia 2 years ago
Oh, so the CIA only does does good stuff. Got it. Hey, that's a really nice shirt, raw marrow, very official looking. Your breath smells like cannibal crap though.
CACBCCCU 2 years ago
there's no smoke without fire. Torture the bastards to death as far as I'm concerned if it could prevents them blowing us up
DariusDaGreat86 2 years ago
you sound like a fine fellow. really brilliant.
onamemmet 2 years ago
you-are-such-a-fucking-idiot-and-definitely-not-a-real-american
Drealist87 2 years ago
@Drealist87
who said I'm American?? You don't need to be an American to fear these crazy fucking Muslims
You want to know what real torture is?? go and visit Evin prison in Tehran Iran where young student protesters are being raped and Tortured, Islamic Republic style, right at this moment. Several of them have even died in prison from the severity of the pain and injury inflicted :/
DariusDaGreat86 2 years ago 2
excellent point!!!!
chinisup 2 years ago
excellent point, bad things are happening somewhere else, clearly this justifies our own behavior.
SportsLap 2 years ago
Who cares what some redcoat thinks!! Waterboarding isn't torture... I think that realk torture should be used against people who are guilty of killing innocent people.
Bouncing22 2 years ago
I say they should rip off the toes and fingers of the muslim bastard terrorists. Gouge out their eyes and stick in a hot poker to help with the pain if they don't get up the information....which they did with waterboarding. So if they call it torture like those pansy liberals do then screw them....torture their asses to death then drop a bomb on the middle east and pull the curtain. Cheap gas then. Don't send me ur replies either liberal. Screw you!!!!
9/11/01 Never forget
LT1HILLINGHOE 2 years ago
I've seen dogs shit things out with more integrity than Thiessen.
loonmaniac 2 years ago
Another chubby, lying coward in the tradition of the odious Karl Rove.
DickBush007 2 years ago
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Harper's Scott Horton points out Thiessen's BS regarding Geneva:
"He then shows he knows nothing about the Geneva Conventions by claiming that they apply only to prisoners of law [sic; likely, war]. . . . All the Geneva Conventions contain a humanitarian baseline of protections available to everyone, including persons that the president labels as unlawful enemy combatants."
Fact: Going ape on people in our custody makes us less safe by recruiting more enemies. Torture is anti-American.
knowbuddhau 2 years ago
Austrian Economics FTW
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.
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RP2012
hulksterification 2 years ago
If waterboarding isn't torture, why wouldn't Thiessen agree to be waterboarded?
steveh46 2 years ago
The US doesn't consider tasering its own citizens as torture, but would you volunteer to be tasered?
Why should he?
Amanpour got caught spreading falsehoods. You can see it on her face. You see how she tries to divert the conversation. She is willfully wrong. AND Obama makes the world more dangerous by giving terrorists a win-win situation.
beethovenqueen 2 years ago
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SportsLap 2 years ago 2
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tasing/shooting/assaulting dangerous or fleeing suspects is one thing. If you were bound or confined and repeatedly tased (electrocuted!!!) in order to elicit confessions or information, would you not consider it torture?
sorry, I know it isn't your main point, but I think it is terribly wrong and I hate to see it repeated. (edited to correct misspelling)
SportsLap 2 years ago
@beethovenqueen Sportslap already dealt with the logical falsehood in your reply. If I volunteer to be tasered is it torture? No, obviously not. If someone ties me down and tasers me over and over and over again against my will, is it torture? Obviously yes.
And Amanpour was right. Thiessen is a liar and a wimp.
steveh46 2 years ago
Because it is terribly unpleasant. Is everything that is unpleasant torture? I would not want to be confined in the county lock up over night. Is being locked up in it torture?
nnjhansen 2 years ago
Look, if waterboarding's not torture would Thiessen be willing to claim that no matter how much I waterboarded him he would continue to claim it's not torture?
If it's not that bad, how would force someone to talk? If it is that bad, then it's torture.
steveh46 2 years ago
I don't know if you really need to be told this, or if you are pretending to be ignorant, but torture is the use of pain (physical or psychological) inflicted on a person in order to force that person to yield information or a confession.
SO, if you were subject to a technique designed to inflict mental anguish in attempt to gain information, THAT would be torture.
SportsLap 2 years ago
No, torture, under US law, is the intentional infliction of "'severe' physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person"
Not all discomfort is severe pain (either physical or mental) .
nnjhansen 2 years ago
Torture, under US law, is also a specific intent crime. You have to intend to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering. As the interrogators were provided pages of guidance specifically intended to ensure that the line was not crossed, you cannot argue they intended to cross that line.
nnjhansen 2 years ago
yes, that is Yoo's specious argument. Since you are assured you are not committing torture, it can't be proved that you intended to torture. But once you get past the dissembling you have to realize...
SportsLap 2 years ago
What did they think they were doing? Were they pouring water on detainees' faces just for fun? Or were they subjecting a person to mental pain, which would motivate the person to give in to the interrogators? Waterboarding has long been recognized as torture and a crime, including U.S. law. We have prosecuted and executed Japanese soldiers for the practice, and we have prosecuted a Texan sheriff for waterboarding.
SportsLap 2 years ago
forgive me, it was Bybee, not the much maligned John Yoo, who made that defense
SportsLap 2 years ago
They intended to make the terrorist uncomfortable enough that he would talk without resorting to torture. Surely you will acknowledge that there is an area between simple questioning and the infliction of "severe" pain.
The technique used by the Japanese was different than that used in SERE training or against the terrorists.
It is never appropriate to use against a US criminal defendant. No level of physical coercion is.
nnjhansen 2 years ago
If the argument is specious, you may want to let the Obama Justice Department know as well as 10 judges of the 3d Circuit as they argued and affirmed that theory in Demjanjuk and Pierre respectively
nnjhansen 2 years ago
The waterboarding that Yukio Asano was convicted for (a Japanese soldier) was extremely similiar to SERE training or torture of terrorists. In addition, look back to why SERE was created. Our soldiers needed a training program to learn to resist the efforts of unethical governments. Ask SERE trainers, such as Malcom Nance, whether waterboarding is torture.
SportsLap 2 years ago
The technique used by the Japanese often resulted in death. That is because the person being waterboarded was either placed flat or at an angle that put his lungs below his head. The technique used in SERE and on the terrorists places the head head below the lungs. Big difference.
Are SERE trainers attorneys? Judges? What qualifications does Malcom Nance have to interpret a law?
nnjhansen 2 years ago
the reasoning you use relies very heavily on the idea that interrogators believe that the use of controlled drowning constitutes only a discomfort, rather than a terrifying and agonizing experience. That is the reason I bring up Malcom Nance, and SERE interrogators. It is widely understood by these professionals what happens in a waterboarding.
SportsLap 2 years ago
For the record, I was waterboarded. It is not something I would want to do again nor would I want anyone I love to go through it. That does NOT make it torture. Terrifying and agonizing is not the standard. Severe physical or mental pain is. Now if you or Nance believe you have a better definition for either 'severe pain' or 'torture' the proper people to discuss it with is Congress.
We waterboard our own men, we do not torture our own men.
nnjhansen 2 years ago
quick google for the definition of "agonizing"
- extremely painful
- intense feelings of suffering; acute mental or physical pain
- to suffer great pain or anguish
for the purposes of this discussion, agonizing meets the requirement for severe physical or mental pain, right?
so we have that. The next part- intentionally inflicted (that is, the interrogators understood they were inflicting severe pain
Finally, for the purpose of gaining information or forcing a confession, not in dispute here
SportsLap 2 years ago
Severe pain is the standard. That means not just pain, not just a lot of pain, but severe pain. The term is subjective but attorneys have to try to quantify it. One way they do that is by seeing if the phrase is further defined elsewhere in the law. In this case it had been, severe pain was defined as that associated with serious impairment of bodily functions, organ failure, or death. So, no agonizing does not meet the definition as you have merely replaced one subjective term with another
nnjhansen 2 years ago
Severe pain was defined by Yoo, in a legally unsound and repudiated memo. He referred to the phrase "severe pain" which is in a federal statute which regulates insurance benefits under Medicare. It defines "emergency medical situation" as symptoms including severe pain, and would cause loss of health, serious impairment of bodily functions, or serious dysfunction of any body organ or part.
SportsLap 2 years ago
Unsound according to whom? Repudiated by who?
nnjhansen 2 years ago
according to Jack Goldsmith and the OLC.
SportsLap 2 years ago
Comment removed
nnjhansen 2 years ago
You mean one attorney disagrees with the legal interpretation of another? Did Goldsmith lay out his disagreement in a legal brief?
nnjhansen 2 years ago
so "severe pain" is not defined as serious impairment of bodily functions, organ failure, or death. Severe pain and the latter are both symptoms of an emergency medical condition under 42 U.S.C. 1395.
So without that, you have to come back to the other definitions Yoo referred to in the Bybee memo, the dictionary definitions, (different from definitions in the law which are policy oriented)
SportsLap 2 years ago
"Symptoms of sufficient severity (including severe pain) such that a prudent lay person... could reasonably expect the absence of immediate medical attention to RESULT in - placing the the health of the individual... (i) is serious jeopardy, (ii) serious impairment to bodily functions, or (iii) serious dysfunction of any bodily organ or part."
Severe pain is one of the type of pain related to serious impairment of bodily functions, organ failure, or death.
nnjhansen 2 years ago
Severe is "inflicting discomfort or pain hard to endure; sharp; afflictive; distressing; violent" as Yoo writes, which is a much lower standard than organ failure or death like the out-of-the-blue definition.
SportsLap 2 years ago
you aren't including enough of the sentence.
The term emergency medical condition means a medical condition manifesting itself by acute symptoms of sufficient severity (including severe pain) such that a prudent layperson, who possesses an average knowledge of health and medicine, could reasonably expect the absence of immediate medical attention to result in— ((i) is serious jeopardy, (ii) serious impairment to bodily functions, or (iii) serious dysfunction of any bodily organ or part.")
SportsLap 2 years ago
How does that change what I wrote? It is clear that under this section of the US Code severe pain is equated with that experienced when serious impairment of bodily functions, organ failure, or death is likely to result.
The reasonable person's expectation of serious impairment of bodily functions, organ failure, or death is based on the severity of the pain.
nnjhansen 2 years ago