balanced embouchure roll in 4

[zappacrappa2]

I will say this once again- The Balanced Embouchure, as taught to me by Mr. Smiley's staunch disciples, over a long period of time, had an adverse effect on my playing. That is a fact. That of course does not mean that it didn't help other players. Anyone disagreeing with this fact has no credibility as far as I'm concerned. I've met several intelligent, gifted, and dedicated musicians for whome the method did not work either.

[MrRobert144]

@zappacrappa2

Fine. I have no reason to argue with that. I can't understand how that could happen, but that's not the only thing in the universe that I don't understand. However, this guy has a different take and even says Caruso and BE are mutually reinforcing:

bertlochs.-dot-com/fr/faq/othe­r-methods/how-about-caruso-and­-be

[themeleed]

Your Gansch reminds me of Mnozil brass!

[heypepper]

BE is a very dangerous method to practice. It has marginal success (though there are some very very good trumpet players who use it). It is highly reccommended that if you like this method you seek out an exceptional teacher in person for this, and not rely on youtube because it can ruin your chops horribly. I know 4 people that had to stop playing altogether for a year to correct the damage done by this method. You're much better off avoiding it...sorry to say, and not meant to flame you.

[naxeldelenarkie]

There's nothing unsafe about BE, Caruso, or any method, provided you practice safely, intelligently, and in moderation. BE won't take you from zero to hero, but it certainly is helpful.

[MrRobert144]

@heypepper This is a demo for people who already have the book or some other means to understand accurately what's going on in terms of how to actually do it. If you're a left-arm pressure person and try to imitate this man right off the bat, you can't possibly go where he goes without ruining your lips. When you do what he's doing, almost all the work is from the guts downstairs, namely your diaphragm. With minimum sealing pressure, it doesn't even make your lips tired if they're working right.

[MrRobert144]

@heypepper You need to only go as high at first as you easily can and keep doing the exercise without ever pushing past what comes naturally from giving it enough diaphragm and rolling the lips in and out as his various videos demonstrate. I think the youtube videos are both for who want to actually hear and see what they're reading about or whet our appetite for learning more. He's really got something good if you approach it right. It's all lip ease, finesse, and building strength in the gut.

[heypepper]

@MrRobert144 Oh I know how it's supposed to work man, I just think that, if you have watched this video and are interested in learning BE that it's a much better idea to seek out an experienced BE player and/or method rather than try to learn it on your own. I'm all about learning more believe me, I do LOTS of research on stuff like this. BE would not be good for me, because I approach the horn with as little movement in the face as possible, but as has been said earlier, this works for some.

[MrRobert144]

@heypepper Hi! Thanks for your reply, heypepper. OK, but I wonder why you've chosen the no facial movement thing. I've seen videos here on youtube that promote that idea, but I don't understand where it's coming from. I can at least appreciate the different approaches for different facial/lip/teeth/jaw architecture, etc., but it seems arbitrary to impose no facial movement as some kind of criterion. What's the rationale? I would appreciate your enlightening me on what the basis is for that.

[heypepper]

@MrRobert144 Hey man, I'll try to give a brief summary why. You have to realize though its not that I'm forcing my muscles not to move in the face I'm just relaxing them to the point that their movement is minimal to nothing. Obviously when you start playing the corners tense up a little bit, as they are support muscles for the back pressure that comes from the horn, but the exercises that I'm learning from Mr. Vincent Penzerella make it so that when I play a low C, to a High C....

[heypepper]

@MrRobert144 (above the staff) they feel exactly the same on my face. The reason I take this is approach is because the less motion in the muscles, the less fatigue, there's really no other point to doing it. Some people take a very 'body builder' approach to their practice (just a generalization, not directed at any one technique) but the technique that I'm learning is more about vocalization and finesse. Mind you only a few years ago I was playing much differently so I understand the ....

[heypepper]

@MrRobert144 'body builder' approach. I just find that doing less makes me able to do more. I'd be glad to share more with you if you are interested, but I don't want to blow up this guys feed with all this stuff lol. Feel free to message me on youtube here, I'm slow to reply sometimes but I'll get any info you request to you if I'm able to over messaging. Happy Practicing!

[Eduardo3053]

is these a elephant tecnique jajajajaja cool

[pbj4toast]

So sorry that someone ran over your trumpet man.

[BuickPR]

Why didn't it finish? I wanted to hear how it was going to end after he took that last breath

[poopoo111222333]

Doc uses the standard old school lip slurs that are needed for good trumpet playing, but he does not use his chops the (be) way.

[kenzo5716]

I attended a Doc Severinsen concert in Tallahassee, Fla at Florida State University in the 1960s. I arrived at the concert hall early so I could meet Doc and have a chat with him. When I arrived, he was back stage warming up. He was playing these same exercises as this video demonstrates, only performing them in a very rapid manner chromatically, up and down, over and over again. They sounded like very wide slurs ranging from pedal tones to high notes over and over again up and down.

[beforhorn]

Way cool! I love BE.

[poopoo111222333]

you suck ducks!!!

[herma57]

ThX, I play Baritone Horn, I'll try this; you gotta great sound;

[GuggiBucherJoe]

Das isch doch ein Gansch Horn oder ?!

[zappacrappa2]

BE ruined my playing. Period.

I'll probably get flamed by the Smiley cronies, but this was my experience.

Definitely DOES NOT work for every player.

In spite of the BE method, Spasstrompeter is a great trumpet player.

[kaunasprince]

Weird axe,but beautiful tone on the "real" notes.Those petals are useless,unless it's just some kind of excercise.

[eartrompette]

Similar experience here, Zappa.

I wasted two years on it without success. Smiley became frowny when my progress reports on his forum documented a lack of progress.

After detailed exchanges, recordings, videos and Skype lessons, I was told to pay for international flights to have personal lessons with a BE expert despite the book's cover reading "easy to learn" and "for every player".

Eventually I was bullied off his forum in a most rude and offensive manner and never offered a refund.

[MrRobert144]

@zappacrappa2 The ONLY way it could have hurt you is a misinterpretation and wrong use of the method. Period.

[zappacrappa2]

@MrRobert144 The ONLY wrong statement was made by you. It has no merit.You don't know me, you don't know how I used the method, and you don't know who taught me the method. If you adhere to the Smiley claim that the method works for everyone and that those who fail are at fault, then you are an irrational person. Period.

I switched to Caruso and never looked back.

[sgabriel]

Is this a joke?

[Spasstrompeter]

No!

[f0ru0l0rd]

@sgabriel yes, someone with that sweet of a horn, and beautiful lip movements couldn't possibly do this exercise. Idiot.

[sgabriel]

@f0ru0l0rd I don't understand. Who is an idiot?

[mlsbls29]

The purpose of this exercise is to learn to keep the mouth peice relaxed and off of your embouchure, versatility between notes and it's kind of like push ups for the corners of your mouth. Just remember to make sure you aperture does NOT fold in when you slur up and down. The fleshy part of where the inner mouth meets the outer lip is where the buzz happens. Strengthen that by low tones and H.L. Clarke Studies #1, and this roll in 4 will be easier to accomplish. This is great, Jeff! Thanks!

[MCroach1]

what is the purpose of these exercises??

[makdhouver]

e o que mais?

[moarn13]

Where do you place your tongue during this exercise? How does it move/operate while playing these slurs?

[MrDjangoJones]

I also purchased the balanced embouchure but have been having troubles with the roll in. I was able to obtain a squeak but not a hiss. Does anyone have any tips for obtaining sound in the roll in?

[HopeBforJC]

Interesting trumpet dude. Nice job.

[Spasstrompeter]

its a Ganschhorn made by Schagerl/Austria

[MrKnockout81]

@Spasstrompeter i love this horn.. how much was it ??

[libergutysax]

can you please teach more tricks like those, they are very helpful to me thanks.

[pfjefes]

I saw a Ganschhorn in a shop the other day and played it, VERY nice instrument!

Thank you for posting this, I was looking for a demonstration of some work from The Balanced Embouchure.

Sounds like it is working well for you!

[daDavemeister]

big tone!

[mohrtyahoo]

This is the BE method found at trumpetteacher dot net

[Spasstrompeter]

Yes, a wonderful method

[bitchass888]

Great attack!

[Spasstrompeter]

I played my Ganschhorn, a rotary valve Schagerl trumpet which is turned 90 degrees. It sounds more like a german, but feels like an american model. Uwe

[Spasstrompeter]

I meant roll-in!!4

[bitchass888]

I learn Jerry Callet's TCE method, and it seems your method is quite similar to his. Do you familiar with his method?

[lamecdcc]

did you say roll out 4?

[Elliot84]

what kind of horn is that. it looks like you have have rotary half piston valves:S. great sound!

Elliot