Bien sur. Sauf que c'est un démonstrateur technologique construit à 3 exemplaires, qui a peu de chance d'être inclus dans une armée, et surtout qui est construit sur une architecture d'intercepteur qui n'a plus aucun intérêt aujourd'hui.
Bref, c'est un banc technologique, certainement pas un modèle de grande production.
@chenoir According to you, it seems that when the Rafale wins, it was due to merit. But when it loses, it was because of lobbying. Losers make excuses, winners count their cash, my friend....
Nope, Rafale victory was due both to merit and lobbying, I'm not that stupid. Anyway, in any competition it went on countries highly dependant on american technology or strategic help, when the Rafale was the preferred aircraft (by the Air Forces of those countries), it was withdrawed by the politics, and almost every time after an american politic intervention, so I tend to think Rafale unsuccess was mostly due to US Anti-rafale lobbying.
On that point we have a disagreement. Anyway, of course the bost was one of India's reason, the EF is the most expensive jet ever, 74000 euros per flight hour.
@chenoir The Rafale is a good plane, but it's not ready to fly with the big birds. It's a good multirole aircraft, but it would get waxed by F-35, Raptor and EF in A2A.
Plus, India bought Rafale (indeed, the contract have yet to be signed), and stayed deaf to american counter-proposal. Curiously, India is one of the few country that is not strategically or economically dependant on the US. I see more than a coincidence here.
Oh, and yes, Rafale is better than Eurofighter, no question about that. It's gorgeous while the EF is ugly, it speaks for itself.
@chenoir India said they bought the Rafale because it is cheaper. In all published data, the EF is the superior A2A aircraft. The Rafale is a more proven A2G fighter.
Nope, as I said, the Swiss air force evaluated that Rafale was far better than EF in A2A combat, and they are mor pro-german than pro-french, so no favoritism
@chenoir The Swiss said the Rafale is a better multirole aircraft. That's what the Swiss were looking for. The EF is a better air superiority aircraft. All the available data indicates that. The Rafale was deemed the best in terms of capabilities for the mission the Swiss wanted, but the Swiss decided the cost-to-benefit ratio wasn't favorable and instead chose the Gripen.
@chenoir If we read most articles comparing the Rafale and EF, most conclude that the Typhoon is the superior A2A aircraft. The only sites that don't are mostly French-biased. The Rafale does have more proven multirole capability and it is probably better for that purpose, but when it comes to air superiority, EF wins. India was looking for a good multirole aircraft (their next gen air superiority aircraft will be a stealth aircraft that Russia is developing).
@chenoir Saudi Arabia chose EF over Rafale. Austria chose EF over Rafale. Singapore is not dependent on the US, they chose F-15 over Rafale. Switzerland chose the Gripen over the Rafale.
Plus, Rafale also have RAM at strategic point, and it is at 70% made of composite materials which reduce its RCS. It uses sharkteeth-shaped surface on various points to diffract radar wave. It's air intakes have been designed so from nowhere we can have a direct view to the engine (strong RCS generator). And it have active electronic stealth system SPECTRA that other aircraft don't have.
About the F-22, it has been grounded for the oxygen supply problem, then allowed to fly again. Then a few day after, the same problem occured and it has been grounded again. The aircraft is authorized to fly for small amount of times, many hypoxia case has been recensed and the problem has not yet been fixed. So no it doesn't fly, it manade so stay airborne endangering it's pilot. Face it, this aircraft is useless and a technical failure.
@chenoir False,the F-22 is flying again. In fact, in Hawaii, people were complaining about training operations that are currently ongoing. The F-22 is fully operational.
the "euro-trash" does a very good job....at least it seemes that there is no serious opponent outside, news like "Eurofighter boasts USAF F-15 kills by Spanish Typhoons" (look Google) are already very boring...
I think, in terms of manoeuvrability there is no opponent to the 3-D-thrust-vectored super-sonic Typhon (as it was offered to India) with the newest AESA-Radar-technology and MBDA Meteor on board
@cyberOwwwOecho Thust vectoring is pointless, it's only a marketing argument, a french pilot proved it during the ATLC when he shot down a F22 with a Mirage 2000-9 in a simulated dogfight.
@eikkkN This is just another BS rumor. The Rafale has been on the market for a very long time and only now just picked up its first export customer and this was mainly due to price (25% cheaper than EF to procure and maintain) and transfer of technology. France was desperate to sell this plane, which is why they were forced to give up a good deal to the Indians. It's a good plane, but it's definitely a rung down form the F-22, F-35 and Eurofighter.
Okay, 2 or 3 things. First, the F-22 spend 10x more times grounded for technical issues than any normal fighter. Plus it was a very limited payload, and the Rafale has proven able to detect F-22 (and not only on good weather's day, but on a situation which was not on the advantage of Rafale). The F-35 is very late, and it will be far from being the "excellent plane" promised. In fact every single country involved in except USA are considering retiring.
@chenoir Proven to detect F-22? This is just another baseless claim. Also the F-22 can carry as many A2A weapons as an F-15. Remember, the F-22 is a pure air superiority fighter, it's not a bomb truck like the F-15E, F-16 etc. The Rafale has exactly 1 international buyer despite the French desperately lobbying for it for over 10 years. Actions speak louder than words and the actions of the world's leading air forces speak volumes......
Well, I got this from someone working at Dassault, not an anonymous internet source.
About Swiss, they don't are to do ground strike, it's highly improbable they will ever destroy anything on ground. It was one of the psoint of their evaluation, but the main subject was air-air capability, and Rafale was evaluate as better to far better than Eurofighter.
@chenoir Yeah, Americans do lobby. So do the Brits, so do the Germans, so do the Russians. But at the end of the day a good sales pitch can't overcome a lousy product.
And how do you explain that every single time and Air Force was interested by Rafale (South Korea, Brazil, UAE), there as an american intervention and the governments withdrawed?
@chenoir There was also French intervention. All governments lobby. But at the end of the day, those countries were free to make a choice: they chose to reject the Rafale.
When the SKorean Air Force officers were totally enthousiast about buying the Rafale and that US politics went there and told the South Korean governement US will retire their troops if they buy the Rafale, letting them face the North Korea alone, that is not lobbying? And the reason is simple : France is the only western country to still develop it's own aircrafts.
Gripen is equipped with american engines, and by contract they can block its sale whenever they want. Eurofighter is maybe the last european joint venture as all contractors have co-developed (and not bought as external biders) the F-35 and will probably remain on american aircraft after this. France is the only country that remain almost totally independant, and if they can't develop new aircrafts, the will most likely buy american
which would be, in addition to a huge economic advantage (being the only country to sell aircraft to all western countries), a huge strategic advantage (as for the F-35. despite being co-developers, the british engineer found that US has implanted in the electronic program and hardware of the F-35 a backdoor (or a troyan) that allows them to disable instantly all non-american F-35. Which means that all countries with american stuff are force allies of the us
Plus, USA would be able to dictate their will to other countries air force. In fact, any country using F-35 (and later american aircraft) will only be able to use them while US government agrees with it, losing all notion of "army soveignity". For me that's something freightening.
@chenoir They are considering "retiring" and yet the F-35 just picked up another export customer in Japan and it's the leading candidate for Korea along with the F-15 Silent Eagle. The Rafale isn't even a contender. The F-35 hasn't even come to market yet and it is already badly outselling the Rafale. In every head to head competition for sales, the F-35 has beaten the Rafale.....that says it all.
Plus, it's small, not that stealth, and moreover, where the f... do you put weapons in that plane? Because guns engagement are not today's norm.
And about Eurofighter, a Swiss Air Force evaluation assessed that Rafale is better than Eurofighter on almost everything (in fact, on all studied points, the only where EF was better is pilot workload.) You can fin this evaluation there :
h t t p : / /files.newsnetz.ch/upload//1/2/12332.pdf
@chenoir In A2A, the Eurofighter is superior (lower RCS, has super cruise, superior maneuverability). The Rafale is a better multirole aircraft, which is what the Swiss were evaluating for. Nevertheless, the Swiss decided that the added capabilities of the Rafale were not worth the price.
@chenoir Fan boys can claim what they want. But actions speak louder than words. The French have been trying to market the Rafale for over a decade. They were finally able to secure 1 export customer and this was in large part due to a huge offset (50%), slashed price and generous transfer of technology. The Indians knew that Dassault was desperate, which is why they managed to milk out a good deal. The Rafale is essentially competing in the economy segment now....it's no Cadillac.
@AcesHighTrooper69 A rumor that a french instructor managed to score a shot against a F22 ? not really. IAF generals has said it yesterday "The Rafale met all the requirements". You will surely say that I always give the same arguments but the EF isn't A2G missions able, no nuclear strike able, no carrier able, no SPECTRA-like warfare suite. "France was desperate": when you look how BAE is blaming the french, it is more the brits that are desperate.
@eikkkN A rumor....that's the bottom line. It's baseless and it was probably planted by Dassault to try and sell the Rafale. The EF also met all of India's specs. And I agree that the EF isn't A2G ready. But it is a far superior A2A platform. India also said straight up that the 25% cheaper cost was the deciding factor. Also, France is giving a better transfer of technology. Dassault was more desperate the EADS....EADS at least had some export customers. Dassault had 0.
@AcesHighTrooper69 Therefore why the Rafale almost won all its BVR exercice against the EF ? I agree on that point but you know, because I'm french i will belieave french pilots reports ;)
@eikkkN Well, I'm neither from France or any of the Eurofighter consortium countries so I am less biased than you. The Eurofighter countries obviously dispute France's claims. So this is just another baseless rumor you choose to base your evaluation on. According the available data, the EF has supercruise, which Rafale doesn't. The EF has a lower RCS and superior sustained and instantaneous turn rates.
@AcesHighTrooper69 lol I don't know who said to u the EF has a lower RCS but this is really BS, the speed limit concerning the EF wich is imposed in the RAF in Mach 1.6, in the french air force too, therefore supercruise is really a commercial argument. "IAF demanded a “sustained turn rate” of 24 degrees per second, each fighter was physically put through this manoeuvre to establish that it met this requirement. from MMRCA news. Rafale is more agile at low speed
@eikkkN Go check the stats online. The EF has a lower RCS. That's quite obvious from that giant refueling pod on the Rafale. The EF also is coated with RAM in several strategic locations.
@AcesHighTrooper69 During BVR simulated engagements against EF, Rafale pilots manage to detect on their radar the EF first but the EF's radar has more range. Therefore the Rafale has a lower RCS, I don't invent anything here... besides it was proved the EF has a better agility at high speed and high altitude thanks to its air intakes whereas the Rafale has a better agility at low speed and low altittude. I don't know where you get those info but they are totally wrong.
@eikkkN There's also a rumor that the F-22 wiped the floor with the Rafale despite the pilots not even turning active sensors. There's also a rumor that Korean F-15Ks outperformed the Rafale at Red Flag. At the end of the day, rumors are just that...rumors. We can only speculate as to their validity so therefore they are useless in evaluating these aircraft. However, we can observe actions, which speak louder than words. The Rafale's dismal performance on the export market says it all.
I love both the Eurofighter and the Rafale. Why can't people just worship both machines? The Rafale is a combat ready aircraft, in service since nearly 11 and a half years. The Eurofighter is in service since 5 and a half years and still being software upgraded for its final combat readiness against ground targets.
Just show respect to both machines because it will be up to them to defend Europe.
@mnnh1 Fixed probe has almost no effect on Aircraft RCS and improve reliability and safety (missing a refueling cause an Aircraft to crash !). As to the radar, RBE-AESA will be deployed in 2013. First western european AESA radar !
@mnnh1 And it's so outdated that he detects Eurofighter and F-22. Don't worry for us, cares about your worse Typhoon, or you F35 who cannot land in carriers.
@samados969 Oh it works alright! It does a very good job here!
But it also does a very good job in helping to give the rafale a MASSIVE radar cross signature
What on earth were the French engineers thinking?? NOBODOY- and I mean NOBODY-designing a fighter in the last 25 years would use a NON-RETRACTABLE refuelling probe. Not the Brits, not the Americans, not the Chinese and not even the Indians, despite them choosing the Rafale! RCS was clearly low on list of priorities for rafale designers
@mnnh1 and the entire front of the aircraft was designed for frontal RCS your SHITHEAD... The program split for EF due to these design decisions are requirements by the french...
You and that other shithead AcesHighTrooper69 don't have a friggin clue WTF you're talking about.
Probably. The day it will be allowed to flight. Which is not close to happen. At the moment, a Rafale will not have any difficulties to drop a bomb on a F-22 and destroy it, as they are stuck on ground.
It seemes that India was to poor to afford the Eurofighter.
So they will go with french cheap-fighters, the "Tato Nano" among jet fighters. May be not so fast, not so high, not so stealth, not so manoeuvrable. But enough for Sri Lanka or Nepal. ;-)
But India will get a big problem, when Pakistan orders now Eurofighters.... ;-)
@cyberOwwwOecho wtf?? are u retarded bro?? Pakistan ordering euro fighters?? they don't have enough money to buy a handful of f-16 and had teh US donate them for Freeeeeee..
and by the way pakistan is ranked #10 on the failed state list and is cash strapped... with shit load of sanctions imposed on it.. soo... and besides India is already co-producing the T-50/FGFA stealth fighters with the russians... so euro-trash fighter stands no chance so u can take ur arguments elsewhere...:)
POR QUE AVIÃO NOVO SE O BRASIL ESTA COMPRANDO SUCATA NO MUNDO TODO, COMPROU DA JORDANIA, TALVEZ COMPRE DA SUIÇA !!! O BRASIL GOTA DE LIXO, O BRASIL PRECISA DE DINHEIRO PRA COLOCAR NA COECA DOS POLITICOS !!!!!!
@MRjlouis3131 hmm we are getting our Mirage Upgraded from France and also looking forward to induct Dassault Rafale in IAF. Hope IAF and Govt of India chooses Rafale. which i think is better than Eurofighter Typhoon in many areas and will meet India's MRCA needs
Viva la India.
Viva la France -- Reminds me of my school days "The Last Lesson" by Alphonse Daudet and of course my English teacher.
@cchettry Thank you, I am very impressed by your knowledge of french literature. In reference to "The Last Lesson" I believe it's a nice universal lesson of nationalism. We lost Alsace and Lorraine regions in 1870 but we regained them after the dreadful WWI. I hope India will select Rafale too. Vive la France et Vive l'Inde
@MRjlouis3131 yes it is in fact may be that's one reason why they included it in our curriculum to nurture nationalism and to teach the importance of one's language.And my teacher use to explain with so much emotion attached to it. i think that's really important in country like India where 1000s of languages are spoken
all these pilots will not sleep very well, they will get nightmares because of African babies they killed, as soon as this war finish they will be frustrated in drugs on the streets collecting rubbish belive me this is the way lucifer acts whenever he does not need you anymore until you dies and go to hell.
MURDERS B EASTARDS. REMMEMBER YOU EUROPEANS AND AMERICANS EVERYTHING YOU ENJOY IS REVENUE FROM INOCENT BABIES KILLED IN DIFFERENT COUNTRIES BY NATO, BASTARDS MURDERS YOUR FATHER IS LUCIFER, NO WORRIES THESE PILOTS WILL SLEEP WITH NIGHTMARES EVERYNIGHT WITH THOSE BABIES THEY KILLED, I HOPE THE DIE WITH MANY CANCERS WITH COMPLETLY PAINFULL, WITH NO PAIN KILLERS UNTIL THEY DIE FOREVER.
@Mauricio7344 : Well...are you telling us that Gadhafi sent his troops to Benghazi only to save lives with guns, bombs, jets and tanks? I hope you don't work in hospital if that is your idea of saving lifes...
I consider this Lybya war a total lack of respect for 09/11 victims. You know Why? Simply because the same goup(AlQaeda) who did 09/11 tragedy is the same Group of rebbels Nato has partnership to fight in Lybia. So why you people cry for 09/11? American people must apluse their fantastic president Obama.
@Mauricio7344 : Nobody ever proved that those rebels were with AlQaeda.Is it so hard to believe that people want to get rid of a tiran and his successors? If what you say is right then AlQaeda would also be the cause of the rebellion that happened in every arabic country within the last 6 months. I really don't think it's the case, and if you have a good memory you will remember that Gadhafi was implied in the terrorist act that blown up a civil plane decades ago. See my point?
@kerdougan As I used to say American people is blind totally manipulated from Iluminatis Media. Wake up my friend stop eating so much hamburgers.hahaha I am African I know Africa corner to corner better than your cnn your fox your bbc. Of course they created all of these rebellion in North African countries, in Lybiaalso because of Oil. if Algerian dont pay attention soon we gonna have a rebellion there as well. Pay attention
@kerdougan Listen i am not American people enemy, I know that you are victmis of New world Order, you have been manipulated since you were born, believe Lucifer is manipulating western people, better you convert now my friend Jesus will come.
@kerdougan Also believe me this New Alqaeda regime is racist they will do genocide against black Lybian people, as they have been doing since this war started. NATO will not defend that black civilians because they got oil ready belive me.
@kerdougan i know its funny how everyone wants intervention when they see Gadhafi's troops shooting peaceful protesters and ordering his pilots to bomb civi's (pilots in his air force have ejected in rebel territory because they did not want to shoot civis, i believe another two landed at an airport in another country). Its funny how everyone forgets all of that very fast because war is not fast and clean. Gadhafi even said their will be a blood bath if nato intervened.
@Baseshocks: Intervention or no intervention, that would have been a bloodbath anyway. So, fucked up for fucked up, as a Lybian wouldn't you want to make the things change? At least the blood would have been shed for a good reason.
@Baseshocks You say "its funny how everyone wants intervention when they see Gadhafi's troops shooting peaceful protesters ... blah blah blah". Wake up man: nobody outside NATO countries and the rebels themselves wanted an intervention. It's funny when people like you considers the Westrern countries as "everyone"
@pancholom ok ill redo the question... everyone in the free world. Russia does not give a shit about anything outside its borders. China does not care with all the shit they caused in Sudan. the rest of the nations have their own problems to worry about. Do you know that it means to truly be subjected?
@Baseshocks Not everyone in the free world, unless your definition of the the free world is restricted to NATO countries: nobody in Switzerland or Sweden for instance called for an intervention. Do you think they are not free? I haven't erad or read any voice calling for an intervention from Latin America or Africa. Have you?
@pancholom Switzerland and Sweden have a neutrality thing going on, they do not take a true stance on anything, although Sweden did send a few Gripans to help with the no fly zone.
@Baseshocks The problem with the reasoning you've displayed is that you equal taking a true stance with calling for military intervention. Have you ever throught that not wnting a military intervention might be a stance too?
Besides, a no fly zone is one thing, but what NATO did is something else.
@pancholom mech its a quick fix, rebels want to vote and free of speech, Gaddafi shoots them for protesting and bombs them, pilots in Gaddafi air force eject and or land at airbases in other nations because they do not want to kill their own civies, NATO first stops the air bombs then decides to help the rebels because then it might turn into north and south Korea and they would have to keep a constant air patrol their indefinitely which non of the nations want to.
@pancholom LOL do you really believe the bull that is reported about the rebels doing harm........... let me guess you are soo enlightened that you read off of some dudes web page named Joe and he seems to have more credibility then CNN, all news agency's are bullshit in a way, Pro Gaddafi or Pro Rebel. The Rebels rebelled for a reason. Some of them have committed crimes, so has Gaddafi, its a revolution. The U.N agreed to the no fly zone to prove his own air force is bombing civies.
@Baseshocks I never said I believed anybody's bull. Gadaffi was a not a saint? I agree, of course. The rebels aren't either. And less than anybody are the NATo guys.
They're there for the oil, dude. All the rest is propaganda. There are way worse repressions and real genocides worldwide... but not so easily profitable.
And the UN agreed to a no-fly zone, nit a bloody military intervention.
@pancholom the no fly zone thing was to prove that Gaddafi was bombing his own citizens, if the U.N agrees to create a no fly zone its done for a reason.
To go back to free of speech etc... Tell me in what dictatorship that the people have freedom of speech.
@Baseshocks you tell me when has a foreign military intervention in the internal affairs of a country left anything but a**-licking corrupt and mafia like regimes. Let's wait a year and see
@pancholom ???????? world war 1 and 2. UN Mission in Rwanda, General Romeo Dellaire ignorned his orders to leave, stayed and protected as many civilans as he could while the Hutu committed mass genocide on the Tutsis. He alone started negotiations between the factions for the safe escort i believe it was some 30 thousand civilians out of the hostel zone. 1rst desert storm war freeing kuwait from Iraq's rule.
@Baseshocks WW1 and WW2 were the hugest international conflicts in the history of mankind -> anything but military interventions in the internal affairs of a country.
General Dellaire's action were quite on the other side of the scale, but they weren't a military intervention either.
1rst desert storm ? A sovereign state (Kuwait) was invaded by another (Iraq) who in turn threatened a 3rd cone (Saudi Arabia). Isn't that an international conflict too?
@pancholom the intervention in the former Yugoslavia in 93 and in 99. say what you want if it was run well or not. i knew a girl who had her family lined up on a wall by her neighbors and gunned down by AK's some how she was lucky and survived a U.N patrol was near by heard the gun shots, picked her up saving her life. I knew another who had to walk threw forests and mass graves to get to safety. Canada took them both in with open arms.
@Baseshocks Again, the break up of Yugoslavia became an international conflict once the different republics became independent. The war wasn't as much an attempt by Serbia to keep them in but to secure "serbian poulated areas within them" would not be a part of the new independent republics. It also had an etnical war component and lead to systematic ethnical cleansing. So it wasn't quite an internal afair either
@pancholom U.S had influence over the Egyptian military, many of their officers trained in the U.S that played a part in the military cue to protect the Civis. if you look at what happened in Somalia, when the U.S marines first took the country the main goal was to feed everyone, the U.N took over then the Somalian warlords started bombing and highjacking food shipments with mass propaganda the the U.N is trying to convert them to Christianity. then mistakes were make on both sides..
@pancholom the city up rose against the U.N, now Somalia is a complete cluster fuck, do you honestly think they would be starving like they are now if the U.N had stayed. Their so called sorry excuse of a government is keeping foreign aid from entering the country watching people starve to death. French U.N troops are watching the boarders between Lebanon and Israel to watch for crimes against humanity. Intervention has helped a lot of people. its just after Iraq every ones gone paranoid.
@Baseshocks The deployment of French U.N troops between Lebanon and Israel is a peace-keeping operation, agreed by all parties involved. Again, not a military intervention.
@pancholom the problem was the Bush administration, think about the world before the Iraq invasion and the paranoia from it....... P.S i sent like 5-6 responses answering your question, just in case they do not all show in your comment bar.
@Baseshocks And I read them with much interest but only one of them (Somalia) was a foreign military intervention in the internal affairs of another country. And, as we both seem to agree, that wasn't exactly a success.
Anyways, thanks a lot for your reply. having a civilized conversation on a media like this is a pleasure. =)
@kerdougan many nato nations are stretched in Afghanistan, the U.S is stretched in both Afghanistan and Iraq the world is still recovering from a recession, no one wants this shit. So what do ya do when you have the power to help give people their freedom (freedom to vote. Freedom of speech), France helped the U.S in its revolutionary war. So why are people so against helping a Muslim state be free. Egypt did it on its own, Libya needs help.
@dmax631 Eurofigther proven ? The Typhoons were useless in Libya they never fired once, the Rafales dropped more than 500 laser-guided bombs on Gaddafi's army. The Typhoon can not be loaded on aircraft carrier, they took off from British soil :) and madeseveral refueling during the flight. The Rafales have taken off from an aircraft carrier which madethem much more responsive. The Eurofigther is ineffective ...
@ContreJours I'm afraid you're wrong, the typhoon has been used successfully by the RAF over Libya first in an air-to-air role until it was certain the Gaddafi's airforce was no longer capable of flying and now is participating in daily attack missions. Please research your bullshit first. Thank you.
@bigglese Bullshit. Let's see what kind bombs the Typhoon are able to drop? Plus, only 8 RAF pilot were qualified for bombing missions with the EF... you spoke about the air-air missions but the first fighters jets in Libya were the Rafale despite of all the air defense (wich hadn't been destroyed by the Tomahawk strikes, spectra...) anyway France deployed more aircrafts than UK.
@eikkkN Even though the french have more aircaft over libya, the british have flown 1,300 sorties while the french have flown 1,200, add that onto the tomahawk strikes by the royal navy in the first few days, the UK special forces operations and the shelling of Zlitan by HMS liverpool later on, while the French have launched no such cruise missiles and have special forces operating in Libya.
@bigglese It is still true that the RAF have flown more sorties over libya and british special forces have played a greater role on the ground than the French.
these machines donot drop flowers,THESE ARE KILLING MACHINES INDIA DONOT NEED ANY OF THESE....
MrKingantony 2 days ago
Excellente vidéo et excellente musique ! On pourrait avoir le titre de cette dernière ? Merci !
Raphlafalaf 5 days ago
Le meilleur avion au monde est Mig 35 RUSSE
algeriana777 1 week ago
@algeriana777
Bien sur. Sauf que c'est un démonstrateur technologique construit à 3 exemplaires, qui a peu de chance d'être inclus dans une armée, et surtout qui est construit sur une architecture d'intercepteur qui n'a plus aucun intérêt aujourd'hui.
Bref, c'est un banc technologique, certainement pas un modèle de grande production.
chenoir 5 days ago
Le meilleur avion au monde.J'ai travaillé dessus, raison de plus pour que ce soit le meilleur avion du monde
cqaclm 1 week ago
@chenoir According to you, it seems that when the Rafale wins, it was due to merit. But when it loses, it was because of lobbying. Losers make excuses, winners count their cash, my friend....
AcesHighTrooper69 1 week ago
@AcesHighTrooper69
Nope, Rafale victory was due both to merit and lobbying, I'm not that stupid. Anyway, in any competition it went on countries highly dependant on american technology or strategic help, when the Rafale was the preferred aircraft (by the Air Forces of those countries), it was withdrawed by the politics, and almost every time after an american politic intervention, so I tend to think Rafale unsuccess was mostly due to US Anti-rafale lobbying.
chenoir 1 week ago
@chenoir Nope, it was 100% due to the Rafale's inadequacies. Where the Rafale won, it was because of cost. Congrats, you have a budget aircraft!
AcesHighTrooper69 1 week ago
@AcesHighTrooper69
On that point we have a disagreement. Anyway, of course the bost was one of India's reason, the EF is the most expensive jet ever, 74000 euros per flight hour.
chenoir 1 week ago
@chenoir The Rafale is a good plane, but it's not ready to fly with the big birds. It's a good multirole aircraft, but it would get waxed by F-35, Raptor and EF in A2A.
AcesHighTrooper69 1 week ago
@AcesHighTrooper69
Plus, India bought Rafale (indeed, the contract have yet to be signed), and stayed deaf to american counter-proposal. Curiously, India is one of the few country that is not strategically or economically dependant on the US. I see more than a coincidence here.
Oh, and yes, Rafale is better than Eurofighter, no question about that. It's gorgeous while the EF is ugly, it speaks for itself.
chenoir 1 week ago
@chenoir India said they bought the Rafale because it is cheaper. In all published data, the EF is the superior A2A aircraft. The Rafale is a more proven A2G fighter.
AcesHighTrooper69 1 week ago
@AcesHighTrooper69
Nope, as I said, the Swiss air force evaluated that Rafale was far better than EF in A2A combat, and they are mor pro-german than pro-french, so no favoritism
chenoir 1 week ago
@chenoir The Swiss said the Rafale is a better multirole aircraft. That's what the Swiss were looking for. The EF is a better air superiority aircraft. All the available data indicates that. The Rafale was deemed the best in terms of capabilities for the mission the Swiss wanted, but the Swiss decided the cost-to-benefit ratio wasn't favorable and instead chose the Gripen.
AcesHighTrooper69 1 week ago
@chenoir If we read most articles comparing the Rafale and EF, most conclude that the Typhoon is the superior A2A aircraft. The only sites that don't are mostly French-biased. The Rafale does have more proven multirole capability and it is probably better for that purpose, but when it comes to air superiority, EF wins. India was looking for a good multirole aircraft (their next gen air superiority aircraft will be a stealth aircraft that Russia is developing).
AcesHighTrooper69 1 week ago
@chenoir Saudi Arabia chose EF over Rafale. Austria chose EF over Rafale. Singapore is not dependent on the US, they chose F-15 over Rafale. Switzerland chose the Gripen over the Rafale.
AcesHighTrooper69 1 week ago
@AcesHighTrooper69
Plus, Rafale also have RAM at strategic point, and it is at 70% made of composite materials which reduce its RCS. It uses sharkteeth-shaped surface on various points to diffract radar wave. It's air intakes have been designed so from nowhere we can have a direct view to the engine (strong RCS generator). And it have active electronic stealth system SPECTRA that other aircraft don't have.
chenoir 1 week ago
@chenoir SPECTRA is just marketing. Even 4th generation aircraft have similar systems, but they are just referred to under a different name.
AcesHighTrooper69 1 week ago
@AcesHighTrooper69
About the F-22, it has been grounded for the oxygen supply problem, then allowed to fly again. Then a few day after, the same problem occured and it has been grounded again. The aircraft is authorized to fly for small amount of times, many hypoxia case has been recensed and the problem has not yet been fixed. So no it doesn't fly, it manade so stay airborne endangering it's pilot. Face it, this aircraft is useless and a technical failure.
chenoir 1 week ago
@chenoir False,the F-22 is flying again. In fact, in Hawaii, people were complaining about training operations that are currently ongoing. The F-22 is fully operational.
AcesHighTrooper69 1 week ago
@MRRjlouis3131
"but we regained them after the dreadful WWI"....you forgot: In WW-II you lost it again ;-)
cyberOwwwOecho 1 week ago
the "euro-trash" does a very good job....at least it seemes that there is no serious opponent outside, news like "Eurofighter boasts USAF F-15 kills by Spanish Typhoons" (look Google) are already very boring...
I think, in terms of manoeuvrability there is no opponent to the 3-D-thrust-vectored super-sonic Typhon (as it was offered to India) with the newest AESA-Radar-technology and MBDA Meteor on board
cyberOwwwOecho 1 week ago
@cyberOwwwOecho Thust vectoring is pointless, it's only a marketing argument, a french pilot proved it during the ATLC when he shot down a F22 with a Mirage 2000-9 in a simulated dogfight.
eikkkN 1 week ago
@eikkkN This is just another BS rumor. The Rafale has been on the market for a very long time and only now just picked up its first export customer and this was mainly due to price (25% cheaper than EF to procure and maintain) and transfer of technology. France was desperate to sell this plane, which is why they were forced to give up a good deal to the Indians. It's a good plane, but it's definitely a rung down form the F-22, F-35 and Eurofighter.
AcesHighTrooper69 1 week ago
@AcesHighTrooper69
Okay, 2 or 3 things. First, the F-22 spend 10x more times grounded for technical issues than any normal fighter. Plus it was a very limited payload, and the Rafale has proven able to detect F-22 (and not only on good weather's day, but on a situation which was not on the advantage of Rafale). The F-35 is very late, and it will be far from being the "excellent plane" promised. In fact every single country involved in except USA are considering retiring.
chenoir 1 week ago
@chenoir Proven to detect F-22? This is just another baseless claim. Also the F-22 can carry as many A2A weapons as an F-15. Remember, the F-22 is a pure air superiority fighter, it's not a bomb truck like the F-15E, F-16 etc. The Rafale has exactly 1 international buyer despite the French desperately lobbying for it for over 10 years. Actions speak louder than words and the actions of the world's leading air forces speak volumes......
AcesHighTrooper69 1 week ago
@AcesHighTrooper69
Well, I got this from someone working at Dassault, not an anonymous internet source.
About Swiss, they don't are to do ground strike, it's highly improbable they will ever destroy anything on ground. It was one of the psoint of their evaluation, but the main subject was air-air capability, and Rafale was evaluate as better to far better than Eurofighter.
And lobbying? American can tell about lobbying
chenoir 1 week ago
@chenoir Yeah, Americans do lobby. So do the Brits, so do the Germans, so do the Russians. But at the end of the day a good sales pitch can't overcome a lousy product.
AcesHighTrooper69 1 week ago
And how do you explain that every single time and Air Force was interested by Rafale (South Korea, Brazil, UAE), there as an american intervention and the governments withdrawed?
chenoir 1 week ago
@chenoir There was also French intervention. All governments lobby. But at the end of the day, those countries were free to make a choice: they chose to reject the Rafale.
AcesHighTrooper69 1 week ago
@chenoir Yeah and I heard from someone at Lockheed Martin that the F-22 is the best fighter ever built. See what I did there?
AcesHighTrooper69 1 week ago
@AcesHighTrooper69
Except that Rafale fly. Not F-22... Not since a year anyway.
chenoir 1 week ago
@chenoir Wrong, the F-22 is flying again and has been for several months. You need more up to date news.
AcesHighTrooper69 1 week ago
@AcesHighTrooper69
When the SKorean Air Force officers were totally enthousiast about buying the Rafale and that US politics went there and told the South Korean governement US will retire their troops if they buy the Rafale, letting them face the North Korea alone, that is not lobbying? And the reason is simple : France is the only western country to still develop it's own aircrafts.
chenoir 1 week ago
@chenoir More French propaganda. When Korea rejected the Rafale, France tried to take the Korean government to court!
AcesHighTrooper69 1 week ago
@AcesHighTrooper69
Gripen is equipped with american engines, and by contract they can block its sale whenever they want. Eurofighter is maybe the last european joint venture as all contractors have co-developed (and not bought as external biders) the F-35 and will probably remain on american aircraft after this. France is the only country that remain almost totally independant, and if they can't develop new aircrafts, the will most likely buy american
chenoir 1 week ago
@AcesHighTrooper6
which would be, in addition to a huge economic advantage (being the only country to sell aircraft to all western countries), a huge strategic advantage (as for the F-35. despite being co-developers, the british engineer found that US has implanted in the electronic program and hardware of the F-35 a backdoor (or a troyan) that allows them to disable instantly all non-american F-35. Which means that all countries with american stuff are force allies of the us
chenoir 1 week ago
@AcesHighTrooper69
Plus, USA would be able to dictate their will to other countries air force. In fact, any country using F-35 (and later american aircraft) will only be able to use them while US government agrees with it, losing all notion of "army soveignity". For me that's something freightening.
chenoir 1 week ago
@chenoir This is more French propaganda trying to explain away the poor performance of the Rafale on the export market.
AcesHighTrooper69 1 week ago
@chenoir They are considering "retiring" and yet the F-35 just picked up another export customer in Japan and it's the leading candidate for Korea along with the F-15 Silent Eagle. The Rafale isn't even a contender. The F-35 hasn't even come to market yet and it is already badly outselling the Rafale. In every head to head competition for sales, the F-35 has beaten the Rafale.....that says it all.
AcesHighTrooper69 1 week ago
@AcesHighTrooper69
Plus, it's small, not that stealth, and moreover, where the f... do you put weapons in that plane? Because guns engagement are not today's norm.
And about Eurofighter, a Swiss Air Force evaluation assessed that Rafale is better than Eurofighter on almost everything (in fact, on all studied points, the only where EF was better is pilot workload.) You can fin this evaluation there :
h t t p : / /files.newsnetz.ch/upload//1/2/12332.pdf
chenoir 1 week ago
@chenoir In A2A, the Eurofighter is superior (lower RCS, has super cruise, superior maneuverability). The Rafale is a better multirole aircraft, which is what the Swiss were evaluating for. Nevertheless, the Swiss decided that the added capabilities of the Rafale were not worth the price.
AcesHighTrooper69 1 week ago
@chenoir Fan boys can claim what they want. But actions speak louder than words. The French have been trying to market the Rafale for over a decade. They were finally able to secure 1 export customer and this was in large part due to a huge offset (50%), slashed price and generous transfer of technology. The Indians knew that Dassault was desperate, which is why they managed to milk out a good deal. The Rafale is essentially competing in the economy segment now....it's no Cadillac.
AcesHighTrooper69 1 week ago
@AcesHighTrooper69 A rumor that a french instructor managed to score a shot against a F22 ? not really. IAF generals has said it yesterday "The Rafale met all the requirements". You will surely say that I always give the same arguments but the EF isn't A2G missions able, no nuclear strike able, no carrier able, no SPECTRA-like warfare suite. "France was desperate": when you look how BAE is blaming the french, it is more the brits that are desperate.
eikkkN 1 week ago
@eikkkN A rumor....that's the bottom line. It's baseless and it was probably planted by Dassault to try and sell the Rafale. The EF also met all of India's specs. And I agree that the EF isn't A2G ready. But it is a far superior A2A platform. India also said straight up that the 25% cheaper cost was the deciding factor. Also, France is giving a better transfer of technology. Dassault was more desperate the EADS....EADS at least had some export customers. Dassault had 0.
AcesHighTrooper69 1 week ago
@AcesHighTrooper69 Therefore why the Rafale almost won all its BVR exercice against the EF ? I agree on that point but you know, because I'm french i will belieave french pilots reports ;)
eikkkN 1 week ago
@eikkkN Well, I'm neither from France or any of the Eurofighter consortium countries so I am less biased than you. The Eurofighter countries obviously dispute France's claims. So this is just another baseless rumor you choose to base your evaluation on. According the available data, the EF has supercruise, which Rafale doesn't. The EF has a lower RCS and superior sustained and instantaneous turn rates.
AcesHighTrooper69 1 week ago
@AcesHighTrooper69 lol I don't know who said to u the EF has a lower RCS but this is really BS, the speed limit concerning the EF wich is imposed in the RAF in Mach 1.6, in the french air force too, therefore supercruise is really a commercial argument. "IAF demanded a “sustained turn rate” of 24 degrees per second, each fighter was physically put through this manoeuvre to establish that it met this requirement. from MMRCA news. Rafale is more agile at low speed
eikkkN 1 week ago
@eikkkN Go check the stats online. The EF has a lower RCS. That's quite obvious from that giant refueling pod on the Rafale. The EF also is coated with RAM in several strategic locations.
AcesHighTrooper69 1 week ago
@AcesHighTrooper69 During BVR simulated engagements against EF, Rafale pilots manage to detect on their radar the EF first but the EF's radar has more range. Therefore the Rafale has a lower RCS, I don't invent anything here... besides it was proved the EF has a better agility at high speed and high altitude thanks to its air intakes whereas the Rafale has a better agility at low speed and low altittude. I don't know where you get those info but they are totally wrong.
eikkkN 1 week ago
@eikkkN Both aircraft can turn at 24 deg/sec, but that was a MINIMUM requirement. The EF has a higher sustained and instantaneous turn rate.
AcesHighTrooper69 1 week ago
@eikkkN There's also a rumor that the F-22 wiped the floor with the Rafale despite the pilots not even turning active sensors. There's also a rumor that Korean F-15Ks outperformed the Rafale at Red Flag. At the end of the day, rumors are just that...rumors. We can only speculate as to their validity so therefore they are useless in evaluating these aircraft. However, we can observe actions, which speak louder than words. The Rafale's dismal performance on the export market says it all.
AcesHighTrooper69 1 week ago
I love both the Eurofighter and the Rafale. Why can't people just worship both machines? The Rafale is a combat ready aircraft, in service since nearly 11 and a half years. The Eurofighter is in service since 5 and a half years and still being software upgraded for its final combat readiness against ground targets.
Just show respect to both machines because it will be up to them to defend Europe.
Best regards from Germany.
GermanMilitaryPower 2 weeks ago 9
Rafale very sexy
buppalol 2 weeks ago 3
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buppalol 2 weeks ago
Little nose? No, my friend.
Big erreur by the French engineers!
Typhoon, F35, F22- and even Jas-39 gripen have retractable probes!
And what about radar? Rafale radar is already outdated!
mnnh1 2 weeks ago
@mnnh1 Fixed probe has almost no effect on Aircraft RCS and improve reliability and safety (missing a refueling cause an Aircraft to crash !). As to the radar, RBE-AESA will be deployed in 2013. First western european AESA radar !
any other question ?
MRjlouis3131 2 weeks ago
@mnnh1 And it's so outdated that he detects Eurofighter and F-22. Don't worry for us, cares about your worse Typhoon, or you F35 who cannot land in carriers.
Deshumidificateur 2 weeks ago
NON-RETRACTABLE REFUELLING PROBE??
That is so 1980's!
mnnh1 2 weeks ago
@mnnh1
Mayby, but it works better than the F-22 wich is stuck in its parking
samados969 2 weeks ago
@samados969 Oh it works alright! It does a very good job here!
But it also does a very good job in helping to give the rafale a MASSIVE radar cross signature
What on earth were the French engineers thinking?? NOBODOY- and I mean NOBODY-designing a fighter in the last 25 years would use a NON-RETRACTABLE refuelling probe. Not the Brits, not the Americans, not the Chinese and not even the Indians, despite them choosing the Rafale! RCS was clearly low on list of priorities for rafale designers
mnnh1 2 weeks ago
@mnnh1
Little nose, it can't be retractable ;D
I think, by the way, it's only the design, for the moment, it works great ;D
samados969 2 weeks ago
@mnnh1 Listen you retard it's covered with RAM and has little to NO affect on RCS.
justincgs 1 week ago
@mnnh1 and the entire front of the aircraft was designed for frontal RCS your SHITHEAD... The program split for EF due to these design decisions are requirements by the french...
You and that other shithead AcesHighTrooper69 don't have a friggin clue WTF you're talking about.
justincgs 1 week ago
SECOND PLACE in a Fighter is DEAD! F22 RAPTOR will Destroy this piece of SHIT1
hellbilly8836 2 weeks ago
@hellbilly8836
Probably. The day it will be allowed to flight. Which is not close to happen. At the moment, a Rafale will not have any difficulties to drop a bomb on a F-22 and destroy it, as they are stuck on ground.
chenoir 2 weeks ago 3
I am Indian,i do not know a lot of french but,"Merci'" for the Rafale.
komodo8887 3 weeks ago 4
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It seemes that India was to poor to afford the Eurofighter.
So they will go with french cheap-fighters, the "Tato Nano" among jet fighters. May be not so fast, not so high, not so stealth, not so manoeuvrable. But enough for Sri Lanka or Nepal. ;-)
But India will get a big problem, when Pakistan orders now Eurofighters.... ;-)
cyberOwwwOecho 3 weeks ago
@cyberOwwwOecho wtf?? are u retarded bro?? Pakistan ordering euro fighters?? they don't have enough money to buy a handful of f-16 and had teh US donate them for Freeeeeee..
and by the way pakistan is ranked #10 on the failed state list and is cash strapped... with shit load of sanctions imposed on it.. soo... and besides India is already co-producing the T-50/FGFA stealth fighters with the russians... so euro-trash fighter stands no chance so u can take ur arguments elsewhere...:)
dinilapache 1 week ago
nAPOLEAN CHACHA AMAR RAHEN
nirbhay121 3 weeks ago
Congratulation India!!!
Loic2659 3 weeks ago 3
The biggest democracy of the world will protect itself with the Rafale ! Go India ! greetz from France ;)
xenomorphelv426 3 weeks ago 25
@xenomorphelv426 Zionist Demoncracy! France is ruled by Israel.
TheSuperHuman7 2 weeks ago
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Namaste welcome to India Rafale
Shivajisena26uk 3 weeks ago
Soon in the sky of Pak and China.
eikkkN 3 weeks ago
Good choice India
wing2912 3 weeks ago
@wing2912
YES , but at the origin their choice is the Mirage 2000/5
the last upgrade of the famous mirage family
druisteen2 3 weeks ago
excellent et le choix de la zic est superbe. Quelqu'un peut 'il me dire le nom de la music du tout début? merci, et bonne visio a tous
bombled1 1 month ago
@iMost1teed It's a Mirage 2000D with 2 GBU12. Siddhu318 is right
MRjlouis3131 1 month ago
Magnifique vidéo de ces oiseaux d'acier. Quelqu'un peut 'il me dire le nom de la chanson à 2:43 ? et bonne année a tous
fabi1ful 1 month ago
@fabi1ful The Surface Of The Sun, du film Sunshine.
WarWolfs 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@WarWolfs merci. vraiment magnifique comme musique
fabi1ful 1 month ago
@fabi1ful
de plastique ...
druisteen2 3 weeks ago
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on april 18 1970 israeli shut down 3 russian pilots over eygpt in mig 21 flying Mirage III !!
sargon08 2 months ago
Pas "terra-ops", mais pour autant assez sympathique vidéo, et avec de belles images de divers "Rafaux"! ;)
pierremirmontflyer 2 months ago
great music choice
IcyScythe 3 months ago
I want to be french :(
Andersng1 3 months ago 2
At 3:19 some other aircraft is shown, probably Mirage 2000
protector1990 3 months ago
@protector1990 it is mirage 2000 only
siddhu318 3 months ago
rafale pilot- Im going IN!!!
lightbulbman1000 3 months ago
boldogok akik repűlhetnek
balogh956 3 months ago
Best jet fighter today, can do all type of missions in the same flight. Advanced electronic warfare integrated in for real stealth capabilities.
santanderino91 4 months ago
hope this aircraft wins Indian mmrca deal for 126 multi-role fighters
hotrockv 4 months ago
terrible music
fwijnja 4 months ago
सुपर .. विमान
fabricio7297 4 months ago
POR QUE AVIÃO NOVO SE O BRASIL ESTA COMPRANDO SUCATA NO MUNDO TODO, COMPROU DA JORDANIA, TALVEZ COMPRE DA SUIÇA !!! O BRASIL GOTA DE LIXO, O BRASIL PRECISA DE DINHEIRO PRA COLOCAR NA COECA DOS POLITICOS !!!!!!
cavalothpya 5 months ago
A340 fuel tanker?
mrfadi 5 months ago
@mrfadi No, The Armée de l'air is operating ageing Boeing KC135 but is about to order 14 Airbus A330 MRTT
MRjlouis3131 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The superiority of the Rafale over the Typhoon has been proven :
2009 Solenzara - Rafale won vs Typhoon 8-1, dogfight
2010 December, ATLC UAE, RAfale won vs eurofighter 7-1 two round
4v4 4-0 & 2v4 3-1 bvr / dogfight / r27 simulation 40km
-in A2G actualy in Libya...
Technical evaluations has always give the advantage to Rafale over the EF (Singapor, Brasil).
rcpo34 5 months ago
At 3:31 to 3:38 isn't that Dassault Mirage ??
cchettry 5 months ago
@cchettry yes
MRjlouis3131 5 months ago
@MRjlouis3131 hmm we are getting our Mirage Upgraded from France and also looking forward to induct Dassault Rafale in IAF. Hope IAF and Govt of India chooses Rafale. which i think is better than Eurofighter Typhoon in many areas and will meet India's MRCA needs
Viva la India.
Viva la France -- Reminds me of my school days "The Last Lesson" by Alphonse Daudet and of course my English teacher.
cchettry 5 months ago 2
@cchettry Thank you, I am very impressed by your knowledge of french literature. In reference to "The Last Lesson" I believe it's a nice universal lesson of nationalism. We lost Alsace and Lorraine regions in 1870 but we regained them after the dreadful WWI. I hope India will select Rafale too. Vive la France et Vive l'Inde
MRjlouis3131 5 months ago 11
@MRjlouis3131 yes it is in fact may be that's one reason why they included it in our curriculum to nurture nationalism and to teach the importance of one's language.And my teacher use to explain with so much emotion attached to it. i think that's really important in country like India where 1000s of languages are spoken
cchettry 5 months ago
@MRjlouis3131 Yes India has selected Rafale! Jai Hind India Vive La France!
MrSabot88 3 weeks ago
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cchettry 5 months ago
this aircraft is so beautiful
alef142 5 months ago
@alef142 Beautiful aircraft indeed
pancholom 5 months ago
all these pilots will not sleep very well, they will get nightmares because of African babies they killed, as soon as this war finish they will be frustrated in drugs on the streets collecting rubbish belive me this is the way lucifer acts whenever he does not need you anymore until you dies and go to hell.
Mauricio7344 5 months ago
Angels of the sky. keep peace and safe lives.
Minh1110 5 months ago
I paused my Porn for this !
oka171 6 months ago 2
MURDERS B EASTARDS. REMMEMBER YOU EUROPEANS AND AMERICANS EVERYTHING YOU ENJOY IS REVENUE FROM INOCENT BABIES KILLED IN DIFFERENT COUNTRIES BY NATO, BASTARDS MURDERS YOUR FATHER IS LUCIFER, NO WORRIES THESE PILOTS WILL SLEEP WITH NIGHTMARES EVERYNIGHT WITH THOSE BABIES THEY KILLED, I HOPE THE DIE WITH MANY CANCERS WITH COMPLETLY PAINFULL, WITH NO PAIN KILLERS UNTIL THEY DIE FOREVER.
Mauricio7344 6 months ago
@Mauricio7344 : Well...are you telling us that Gadhafi sent his troops to Benghazi only to save lives with guns, bombs, jets and tanks? I hope you don't work in hospital if that is your idea of saving lifes...
kerdougan 5 months ago
@kerdougan Think about this:
I consider this Lybya war a total lack of respect for 09/11 victims. You know Why? Simply because the same goup(AlQaeda) who did 09/11 tragedy is the same Group of rebbels Nato has partnership to fight in Lybia. So why you people cry for 09/11? American people must apluse their fantastic president Obama.
Mauricio7344 5 months ago
@Mauricio7344 : Nobody ever proved that those rebels were with AlQaeda.Is it so hard to believe that people want to get rid of a tiran and his successors? If what you say is right then AlQaeda would also be the cause of the rebellion that happened in every arabic country within the last 6 months. I really don't think it's the case, and if you have a good memory you will remember that Gadhafi was implied in the terrorist act that blown up a civil plane decades ago. See my point?
kerdougan 5 months ago
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@kerdougan As I used to say American people is blind totally manipulated from Iluminatis Media. Wake up my friend stop eating so much hamburgers.hahaha I am African I know Africa corner to corner better than your cnn your fox your bbc. Of course they created all of these rebellion in North African countries, in Lybiaalso because of Oil. if Algerian dont pay attention soon we gonna have a rebellion there as well. Pay attention
Mauricio7344 5 months ago
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@kerdougan Listen i am not American people enemy, I know that you are victmis of New world Order, you have been manipulated since you were born, believe Lucifer is manipulating western people, better you convert now my friend Jesus will come.
Mauricio7344 5 months ago
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@kerdougan Also believe me this New Alqaeda regime is racist they will do genocide against black Lybian people, as they have been doing since this war started. NATO will not defend that black civilians because they got oil ready belive me.
Mauricio7344 5 months ago
@kerdougan i know its funny how everyone wants intervention when they see Gadhafi's troops shooting peaceful protesters and ordering his pilots to bomb civi's (pilots in his air force have ejected in rebel territory because they did not want to shoot civis, i believe another two landed at an airport in another country). Its funny how everyone forgets all of that very fast because war is not fast and clean. Gadhafi even said their will be a blood bath if nato intervened.
Baseshocks 5 months ago
@Baseshocks: Intervention or no intervention, that would have been a bloodbath anyway. So, fucked up for fucked up, as a Lybian wouldn't you want to make the things change? At least the blood would have been shed for a good reason.
kerdougan 5 months ago
@Baseshocks You say "its funny how everyone wants intervention when they see Gadhafi's troops shooting peaceful protesters ... blah blah blah". Wake up man: nobody outside NATO countries and the rebels themselves wanted an intervention. It's funny when people like you considers the Westrern countries as "everyone"
pancholom 5 months ago
@pancholom ok ill redo the question... everyone in the free world. Russia does not give a shit about anything outside its borders. China does not care with all the shit they caused in Sudan. the rest of the nations have their own problems to worry about. Do you know that it means to truly be subjected?
Baseshocks 5 months ago
@Baseshocks Not everyone in the free world, unless your definition of the the free world is restricted to NATO countries: nobody in Switzerland or Sweden for instance called for an intervention. Do you think they are not free? I haven't erad or read any voice calling for an intervention from Latin America or Africa. Have you?
pancholom 5 months ago
@pancholom Switzerland and Sweden have a neutrality thing going on, they do not take a true stance on anything, although Sweden did send a few Gripans to help with the no fly zone.
Baseshocks 5 months ago
@Baseshocks The problem with the reasoning you've displayed is that you equal taking a true stance with calling for military intervention. Have you ever throught that not wnting a military intervention might be a stance too?
Besides, a no fly zone is one thing, but what NATO did is something else.
pancholom 5 months ago
@pancholom mech its a quick fix, rebels want to vote and free of speech, Gaddafi shoots them for protesting and bombs them, pilots in Gaddafi air force eject and or land at airbases in other nations because they do not want to kill their own civies, NATO first stops the air bombs then decides to help the rebels because then it might turn into north and south Korea and they would have to keep a constant air patrol their indefinitely which non of the nations want to.
Baseshocks 5 months ago
@Baseshocks LOL! Do you really believe all that bull?
pancholom 5 months ago
@pancholom LOL do you really believe the bull that is reported about the rebels doing harm........... let me guess you are soo enlightened that you read off of some dudes web page named Joe and he seems to have more credibility then CNN, all news agency's are bullshit in a way, Pro Gaddafi or Pro Rebel. The Rebels rebelled for a reason. Some of them have committed crimes, so has Gaddafi, its a revolution. The U.N agreed to the no fly zone to prove his own air force is bombing civies.
Baseshocks 5 months ago
@Baseshocks I never said I believed anybody's bull. Gadaffi was a not a saint? I agree, of course. The rebels aren't either. And less than anybody are the NATo guys.
They're there for the oil, dude. All the rest is propaganda. There are way worse repressions and real genocides worldwide... but not so easily profitable.
And the UN agreed to a no-fly zone, nit a bloody military intervention.
pancholom 5 months ago
@pancholom the no fly zone thing was to prove that Gaddafi was bombing his own citizens, if the U.N agrees to create a no fly zone its done for a reason.
To go back to free of speech etc... Tell me in what dictatorship that the people have freedom of speech.
Baseshocks 5 months ago
@Baseshocks you tell me when has a foreign military intervention in the internal affairs of a country left anything but a**-licking corrupt and mafia like regimes. Let's wait a year and see
pancholom 5 months ago
@pancholom ???????? world war 1 and 2. UN Mission in Rwanda, General Romeo Dellaire ignorned his orders to leave, stayed and protected as many civilans as he could while the Hutu committed mass genocide on the Tutsis. He alone started negotiations between the factions for the safe escort i believe it was some 30 thousand civilians out of the hostel zone. 1rst desert storm war freeing kuwait from Iraq's rule.
Baseshocks 5 months ago
@Baseshocks WW1 and WW2 were the hugest international conflicts in the history of mankind -> anything but military interventions in the internal affairs of a country.
General Dellaire's action were quite on the other side of the scale, but they weren't a military intervention either.
1rst desert storm ? A sovereign state (Kuwait) was invaded by another (Iraq) who in turn threatened a 3rd cone (Saudi Arabia). Isn't that an international conflict too?
pancholom 5 months ago
@pancholom the intervention in the former Yugoslavia in 93 and in 99. say what you want if it was run well or not. i knew a girl who had her family lined up on a wall by her neighbors and gunned down by AK's some how she was lucky and survived a U.N patrol was near by heard the gun shots, picked her up saving her life. I knew another who had to walk threw forests and mass graves to get to safety. Canada took them both in with open arms.
Baseshocks 5 months ago
@Baseshocks Again, the break up of Yugoslavia became an international conflict once the different republics became independent. The war wasn't as much an attempt by Serbia to keep them in but to secure "serbian poulated areas within them" would not be a part of the new independent republics. It also had an etnical war component and lead to systematic ethnical cleansing. So it wasn't quite an internal afair either
pancholom 5 months ago
@pancholom U.S had influence over the Egyptian military, many of their officers trained in the U.S that played a part in the military cue to protect the Civis. if you look at what happened in Somalia, when the U.S marines first took the country the main goal was to feed everyone, the U.N took over then the Somalian warlords started bombing and highjacking food shipments with mass propaganda the the U.N is trying to convert them to Christianity. then mistakes were make on both sides..
Baseshocks 5 months ago
@Baseshocks Do you rate the Egyptian case as MILITARY INTERVENTION? Really?
Somalia, yes: it was a military intervention and it failed miserably (fact).
pancholom 5 months ago
@pancholom the city up rose against the U.N, now Somalia is a complete cluster fuck, do you honestly think they would be starving like they are now if the U.N had stayed. Their so called sorry excuse of a government is keeping foreign aid from entering the country watching people starve to death. French U.N troops are watching the boarders between Lebanon and Israel to watch for crimes against humanity. Intervention has helped a lot of people. its just after Iraq every ones gone paranoid.
Baseshocks 5 months ago
@Baseshocks The deployment of French U.N troops between Lebanon and Israel is a peace-keeping operation, agreed by all parties involved. Again, not a military intervention.
pancholom 5 months ago
@pancholom the problem was the Bush administration, think about the world before the Iraq invasion and the paranoia from it....... P.S i sent like 5-6 responses answering your question, just in case they do not all show in your comment bar.
Baseshocks 5 months ago
@Baseshocks And I read them with much interest but only one of them (Somalia) was a foreign military intervention in the internal affairs of another country. And, as we both seem to agree, that wasn't exactly a success.
Anyways, thanks a lot for your reply. having a civilized conversation on a media like this is a pleasure. =)
All the best
pancholom 5 months ago
@kerdougan many nato nations are stretched in Afghanistan, the U.S is stretched in both Afghanistan and Iraq the world is still recovering from a recession, no one wants this shit. So what do ya do when you have the power to help give people their freedom (freedom to vote. Freedom of speech), France helped the U.S in its revolutionary war. So why are people so against helping a Muslim state be free. Egypt did it on its own, Libya needs help.
Baseshocks 5 months ago
from 2:25 to 3:10, Rafale with 4 AASM and a Damocles Pod ... Strike configuration at its best
MRjlouis3131 6 months ago 14
it 's time to get arab oil!
amilom007 6 months ago 2
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amilom007 6 months ago
Eurofighter is proven much better then this crap
dmax631 6 months ago
@dmax631 Eurofigther proven ? The Typhoons were useless in Libya they never fired once, the Rafales dropped more than 500 laser-guided bombs on Gaddafi's army. The Typhoon can not be loaded on aircraft carrier, they took off from British soil :) and madeseveral refueling during the flight. The Rafales have taken off from an aircraft carrier which madethem much more responsive. The Eurofigther is ineffective ...
ContreJours 6 months ago 2
@ContreJours I'm afraid you're wrong, the typhoon has been used successfully by the RAF over Libya first in an air-to-air role until it was certain the Gaddafi's airforce was no longer capable of flying and now is participating in daily attack missions. Please research your bullshit first. Thank you.
bigglese 6 months ago
@bigglese Bullshit. Let's see what kind bombs the Typhoon are able to drop? Plus, only 8 RAF pilot were qualified for bombing missions with the EF... you spoke about the air-air missions but the first fighters jets in Libya were the Rafale despite of all the air defense (wich hadn't been destroyed by the Tomahawk strikes, spectra...) anyway France deployed more aircrafts than UK.
eikkkN 6 months ago 2
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bigglese 6 months ago
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bigglese 6 months ago
@bigglese You comments was full of shit, just go on the french MOD website and you will see. Plus french have launched SCAL cruise missile in Libya..
eikkkN 6 months ago 3
This has been flagged as spam show
@eikkkN Even though the french have more aircaft over libya, the british have flown 1,300 sorties while the french have flown 1,200, add that onto the tomahawk strikes by the royal navy in the first few days, the UK special forces operations and the shelling of Zlitan by HMS liverpool later on, while the French have launched no such cruise missiles and have special forces operating in Libya.
bigglese 6 months ago
@bigglese It is still true that the RAF have flown more sorties over libya and british special forces have played a greater role on the ground than the French.
bigglese 6 months ago
@bigglese
Look at this before talking. NATO official website give the following :
France: 33%, approximately 2,225 strike sorties (out of 6,745 total sorties by August 4)
US: 16%, 801 strike sorties, (out of 5,005 strike sorties by June 30)
Denmark: 11%, dropped 705 bombs (out of the 7,079 missions by August 11)
Britain: 10%, 700 strike sorties (out of 7,223 total sorties by August 15)
Then canada, Italy, Norway, Belgium, respectively 10, 10 , 10 and 8%
MRjlouis3131 6 months ago 6
@bigglese Wow! Your statement sounds impressive!
May I ask how many victories did they get on that an air-to-air role ?
pancholom 5 months ago
@ContreJours Untrue! the Eurofighters have been flying from giolla de colle airbase in italy, yet more proof you don't know what you're on about.
bigglese 5 months ago
Je croyais qu'il fallait éteindre le moteur pour faire le plein ?... ^^
mailkiserarien 6 months ago
dassault est un génie ^^
TheJEANFB 6 months ago 2
What the hell..........it didn't drop a single bomb
vivek41176 6 months ago
superb. thanks
Mr2pint 7 months ago
hope that rafale will mmrca! mirage 2000s already did a great job in the Indian Air Force! Thx France! Vive la France!
garudcommando 7 months ago 2
aircraft sex...
bingofioul 8 months ago 32
I watch this with the first song from watch?v=MLKm9E-MM2Y. psychedelic!!!!!
highwayhazzard 8 months ago
Damn good looking airplane.....great music too!
ViperKeeper2070 8 months ago