In the video, the patient hit the nail on the head that we have more money to do this than any other nation, yet we refuse to give our citizens true universal health coverage. Such a sad fact.
you should see healthcare in red states... its worse than mexico. in fact some people I know goto mexico to get better healthcare than here in the US :P
Sorry, did she say "four THOUSAND"??? I first thought she said "FORTY thousand" and I thought THAT was pretty rough! In a wealthy country like the US no one should need to think of their personal finances before seeking necessary medical treatment. In Australia, not only is everyone entitled to excellent health care, but the government also subsidises optional private health insurance by 30% for anyone who wants it. Surely the US could do the same for its citizens?
45,000 Americans die each year because they can't afford health care and because their health care is rationed by the US insurance takeover of health care.
Prescriptions drugs are far less in Canada NOT because the government subsidizes it. Prescription drugs are far less (avgerage 40% of US costs) because the government traded patent duration for PRICE CONTROLS. If anyone pays for lower prescription drugs in Cnada, it's the stupid Americans who pay astronomical prices because your government didn't trade patent extension for PRICE CONTROLS.
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IS THERE A "POLITICAL BIAS" INVOLVED?
THERE SURE IS!!
THE STUDY CAME FROM..
6 researchers that compiled this study whom are.. ALL affiliated with Harvard Medical School who themselves have STRONG CONNECTIONS with the ***Physicians for a National Health Program***!
Dr. Woolhandler & Dr. Himmelstein, a professor & associate professor of medicine, respectively, at Harvard Medical School, are co-founders of PNHP, a group of physicians that are ADVOCATES FOR A SINGLE-PAYER HEALTH CARE SYSTEM!
Except where that happens is in the US. It doesn't happen in Canada, for sure, I can tell you for certain. Canadian health care saved my life, but if I were in the US insurance-run health care system I would be dead now.
I have several pre-existing conditions which would disqualify me from getting health insurance, and thus health care, in the US, even if I would lower myself to the poor quality that average Americans have. I have guaranteed health care in Canada and every Canadian has guaranteed health care, while millions upon millions of Americans are denied health care, and 45,000 of them die because of health care denial each year.
The problem is that everyone thinks that the U.S. has a free market. It doesn't. When the government pays 50% of the health care costs and there are a plethora of rules and regulations effecting hospitals/physicians and health insurance companies this hardly makes for a free market system. Plus if we had a true free market then health insurance would work much like car/home insurance. It would stay with you, not your job, have higher deductibles, and just be used for major things.
Oh no with the free market BS. Increase more competition so MORE insurance corporations can deny MORE people based of pre-existing conditions, fix around prices, and deny, delay, don't pay.
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I'm not sure about this whole "dying without insurance" claim. It seems like a very extreme situation that probably happens a lot more rarely than Alan Grayson and Harvard claim. I mean, unless you're extremely poor and can't afford treatments or drugs for diseases that slowly eat away at you and then instantly kill you without any emergency signals (so you could go into the ER for free, by law), it seems highly unlikely. Sure, you can go broke trying to pay medical bills, but die? I dunno
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The "findings" make it sound as though the government or some private agency just puts data out there in the public record for anyone to access on whether or not dead people had health insurance. Well, I'm pretty sure that's data that's very much private, so the only way Harvard and others could've possibly "found" numbers like 45,000 is by using certain techniques to try to estimate as best they can. But of course, they might as well be pulling numbers out their ass for that matter.
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Oh, god. Now even the Canadian press is citing that bogus study that has been debunked time and again, the one that Grayson always cites. If Grayson's study is correct, why hasn't this kind of data and finding been reproduced in OTHER studies? Many studies before that measured how many people "die b/c of lack of health insurance" have found much lower numbers. Plus, it's impossible to know just how many people die b/c they didn't have insurance. Not like their insurance status is made public
Well, as a liberal I will say it is true we do have some pretty good damn Doctors and medicine, but we also have people going bankrupt over HealthCare and people dying because they cant afford their Insurance, and skyrocketing prices just because the person got sick. If we dont have Universal healthcare then we should at least think of something else that we can fix, like allowing Health Insurance to cross state lines, it will make prices drop a lot.
"Hmmm..." is a sound we make - a sort of magic sound. It is the sound of wonder waking up
When we "hmmm...", we create a space of inquiry. What we don't know becomes more important than what we do know. Our sense of wonder is awakened.
As we begin to explore this wonderful world of the unknown, every day becomes an adventure. Imaginations run wild, creativity is unleashed, and inventions are born.
Standing at the edge of this clearing, we ask of life, "What's Possible?"
to me "preexisting condition" constitutes a crime against humanity. you have been sick before? well good luck, you get sick again, and i, whos sole purpose is to provide you with coverage, wont cover you. so ill hope you die fast...sick sick system
I can hardly recognize it. So glad I am not a young person and will leave soon. Truly it is not "A Wonderful Life" in the USA anymore, but rather the dreaded "Pottersville" brought by greedy old men.
After the fiasco of what Americans did to the Canadian national anthem at the last baseball All Star Game, next All Star Game in Toronto, the US anthem will be done by four guys with kazoos and Roseanne Barr.
There are circumstances when people are forced to declare bankruptcy after getting sick. However, it is not as a result of medical bills, but instead a consequence of the loss of income from not being able to work.
Schlesinger made the biggest point of all at the end. Peace of mind.
It's ironic how the critics claim HC reform is infringing on their freedoms, when really it expands them. It literally liberates you from the whims of insurance execs.
They claim that health care is not a right, but let me explain RIGHTS a bit differently. Lack of health care ends LIFE and severly limits, if not denies the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" are Constitutionally guaranteed. Anything which interferes with LIFE and THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS tramples the Constitution. The nay sayers always talk about LIBERTY, but never talk about, and want to deny LIFE and THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS.
This happened to my grandparents. They had great insurance. Grandma got cancer and the left over bills were to huge they lost everything just trying to keep up. They had a successful business a home and even a condo. She lived 2 yrs. Now grandpa is 91 and working 2 jobs just to live from payday to payday. These people were not irresponsible in any way. It could happen to any one of you.
Whoever thumbed down your comment needs to take a chill pill and do some research. In London, you don't get charged for healthcare and the average prescription price is less than $15. The average insurance plan is $400-$2000 and a $1000 deductible. I will take the socialized medicine!
The Canadian Health Care system is great. There are no worries, cash registers, insurance companies, or bills to pay. We Canadians spend our tax dollars on programs designed to take care of its citizens instead of spending tax dollars on too big to fails, wars, and just plain giving money away to off shore banks. Are Canadians wrong for taking care of each other? That is what socialism is, caring for your fellow citizens.
Dennis Kucinich seems to be the only one pushing for morality in the US.
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in regards to the doctor that went broke........ that is what happens when you live beyond your means. dude was making that kind of money and having it go away so quick unless you are in debt. he lost his job so he lost his paycheck and could make payments. he was never a wealthy person. just a guy who could afford big payments for a fancy house and several nice cars
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it is a shame he did not save his money, i agree. it is hard to do these days in the world of corporate consumerism and marketing we live in these days, and what is a wingnut? i've never heard that one before
Nothing here said he was in debt, or that he was living beyond his means
All it said was that he got sick with a dibilitating disease
He lost his job, and few people can save enough money to go from a nice lifestyle to no money and hundreds of thousands in medical costs and keep themselves afloat
Its not even good for an economy for somebody to keep millions unused in the bank, and thats what he would need to survive such an illness for decades
It IS good for some one to save money. It is called CAPITAL. Where do you think capital is supposed to come from?? Gov't debt that requires massive interest payments? The federal reserve's printing press?? Do you think that a country does not need capital and all we need is consumption?? What about production? If you don't advocate for strong capital, how can you make investments to build production? The point of my comment is that some people that make $250+ a year still live paycheck2paycheck
This clip didnt say he didnt save. But for his disorder and having no job because of it, he would run through any savings very fast, within a few years.
You can spend 10s of thousands a year, maybe 100k the first year, and run out of a million dollar savings in 10 years or less.
He said hes been living with the disease for 18 years by now.
I didnt see a single one of your last lines that did anything but assume things about him and his level of responsibility.
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My friends mother went through Huntington's Disease and she never made as much as this doctor used to make and there was no bankruptcy and they didn't ask for hand outs. Huntington's is incurable, management is the only expense. If you go from a mansion and 5 vintage cars to living out of a car in a few years time it is a fair assumption that dude did not have clam to the expensive assets he was enjoying, so he must have been making payments on them, which means......debt
First off, the reason I ranted about the issue of capital b/c you said that savings is bad for the economy which is false. Yes other countries have built industry without private capital but in those cases the state controls the means of production (socialism). America at this point is not a socialist state. If people elect Dennis Kucinich and want an honest socialist gov't that is one thing, but for now it is corporations and Wall Street trying to loot the treasury. It is called corporatism.
You only mentioned the treasury (which to me means an arm of the government, as in Secretary of the Treasury), not individuals. Maybe you meant individuals too.
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Yes...and i feel sorry for your National Defense system...and your Health Care system as well; we may pay more...but quality is that much better and well deserving of the pay.
You are ragging on the CanadianNational Defense???? You haven't been watching the US National Defense that much lately... OK, I am glad to hear that you like the Iraq & Afghanistan War so much. Rather have Socialized Canadian Healthcare than Gizillion for wars based on lies.
You donl;t mind having a socialized government run military fighting your wars. Why not just hire private enterprise mercinaries? Oh, that's right you did, Blackwater, who used innocent Iraqis walking down the street for target practice, and KBR, and the guys they hired to guard the embassy, while they were having a drunken orgy instead of guarding the embassy they were paid to do. That's the American way.
the military is provided to defend our Rights as humans from enemies...we also have the 2nd amendment, or had the 2nd amendment, in order to protect these Rights closer at home...the military is necessary in the event of a foreign enemy; extremely vital.
The military isnt forcing anyone to work for it, socialized healthcare would force doctors to recieve a certain wage and make it illegal for them to decline and work privately from the socialized healthcare...absurd.
You have to leave your viagra, I mean guns, that you Americans have such a sexual fetish for at the border if you come here. Canadian border guards have had to be armed and draw their guns on Americans about 12 times week in order to disarm the stupid gun lovers. The US military does nothing for me, except get Canadian kids killed in Afghanistan in YOUR war. The US Air Force killed 4 Canadian kids in Afghanistan by bombing them "by mistake".
Oh we own property, just NOT guns. We own all kinds of property. We don't need guns for protection, and only you paranoid Americans think you do. That's another way you're backward compared to the rest of the world. Your gun fetish.
even Americans dont own Property, only property owners in America and Canada are the Governments.
Used to be able to own property in america, until we turned to Communism under Roosevelt and FDR...now, the government can seize your land for not paying into the tax pool that in most cases doesnt benefit the land owner...
i moved to an area, no kids...yet pay over 1,000 of my property tax to public education....make sense? if you enjoy communism, then yes it does.
Of course we own property, are you totally stupid? A far higher percentage of Canadians own houses that the percentage of Americans who, own houses, because we pay half of what you do for heatlh care by paying it through out taxes. We own houses, we own cars, we own whatever we can afford, and the average Cnadaian can afford more than the average American can. No one here WANTS or NEEDS guns though. Only your backward nation thinks that way
You own Real Estate....huge difference in Real Estate and Property.
If your government can take it from you for not paying taxes on it, then you do not OWN it...
if your government can tell you what to build on it and what you cannot build on it...then you do not OWN it...
Put it this way, you OWN your body...you can tatoo "FUCK YOU" on your forehead...as of right now, the Government cannot tell you that is illegal for you to do.
Your thinking is totally warped if you think you need a gun for protection. No one in the rest of the world thinks that way. No wonder we all think you Americans are totally insane.
noone in the rest of the world ever had a notion of freedom either.
freedom isnt given to you from your government and ultimately YOU are responsible for your freedom and therefore you have to protect it.
but you are right, today, in America, there really is no need for guns seeing as we have little Freedom and are losing the last bit of it under Fuhrer Obama.
Canadians have far more rights and freedoms than Americans. Rights and freedoms have absolutely nothing to do with guns in civilized nations. You need psychiatric help if you think you need a gun for protection. That's mental illness.
Canadians live an average of 2.6 years longer than Americans. A lot of that us our better health care, some of it is your idiotic gun fetish. No one in the civilized world needs guns for protection, and the US is the only nation backward enough to think they need guns.
You're totally wrong, by the way, Canadian physicians are in private practice just like American physicians are. Nobody tells them how much they can make. If they want to work 80 hour weeks and see twice as many patients and make $200,000 they can. Nobody stops them. Canada doess not have socialized medicine, where physicians are on a fixed salary. .
You have no idea what you're talking about. All government does is pay the bills. There's no interference at all. It's in the US inirancce-run system that you have an insurance company bureaucrart between you and your physician. Nothing of the kind happens in Canada. It's just up to our physicians and us, no one else inteferes here
i am speaking in regards to America's plan...fixed pay for certain procedures, as medicare does...a doctor busts his ass at school and with student loans...he should be able to charge what ever the heck he wants to for any procedure...if people think it is too much, they wont see him.
The Government has no authority in setting the wage of doctors nor to tell the people that they cannot seek medical help aside from the government plan...absolutely none. but, again, we are turning to communism
Actually I have far better health care in Canada than I had when I LIVED in the US. American Insurance-run health care is very low quality compared to what I've had in Canada. When I lived in the US I was shocked at how much worse and how rationed US insurance-run health care was.
Yes, that's why I have far better health care than you. Canadian health care ranks #6 of 19 industrialized nations. US insurance-run health care ranks 19th out 19 nations in the industrialized world.
The fact that only 64% of Americans can afford to go to a physician is one cause of your last place finish. Killing 122 Americans a day from lack of affordable health care is another factor in your last place finish. If you had universal health care, you would be ranked far higher, but you're too set in your ways to be the last nation in the industrialized world to provide health care for ALL it's citizen. The US is the only nation backward enough not to provide health care to all.
You'll stick with the 19th best health care system in the industrialized world and I'll stick with the 6th best health care in the industrialized world.
What increased survival rates? Canada has better outcomes than US insurance-run health care. Ask the 122 Americans who died today, 45,000 a year, if they'd want Canadian health care and they'd jump at the chance.
Except Canadians have more rights and freedoms than Americans ever had. Tell Canada's Conservatiove Prime Minister and cabinet that Canada is a socialist nation. Nonetheless, Conservatives know that even whispering they would want a US stlyle insurance-run health care system would be political suicide. They'd go from 143 seats to maybe 23 seats if they tried that.
Healthcare is not a Right and therefore no "citizens" are entitled to it...you use the term citizen like that is a good thing.
being a "citizen" is not a good thing...this is the first step to You existing for the greater good of Society...this is why the US cannot go to Welfare Healthcare...noone else but myself is entitled to my wage and my property...noone.
And you, as an individual - not citizen, cannot tell a doctor "fix me...i have a Right to Healthcare"..
Health care is a right in civilized nations. That being the case, it makes sense that that US is an uncivilized nation, and the rest of the world looks down on you as a killer just like Al Quaida.
Only petty Americans feel that way. Goerge W. Bush wrote the Iraqi Constitution and in it he made health care a right, and created a single payer health care system for Iraq (a Canadian type), yet he left hios own nation thinking wrongly that health care is not the right he gave Iraquis, and left the US with insurance-run health care
Rights are inherent...they cannot be deemed upon you from another being or Government...Healthcare is not a Right due to it imposing on another individuals Rights.
Rights stop where anothers Rights begin...everything in between is Responsibilities
Rights and responsibilities change over time. The 2nd amendment is an example of an archaic right that doesn't belong in a civilized, industrialized nation the 21st century, let alone the 20th century.
the Second Amendment is an inherent Right of protection...you cannot strip the individuals of their Right to protect themselves against ALL enemies...these enemies include the Government; as seen in the Revolutionary War...
Right to Bear Arms is inherent and the ONLY time it becomes a problem is when you try and limit or abolish this Right...then, all you have are "criminals" with guns and common people without the means of protecting themselves...
Opinions are allowed, but 95% of Canadians don't want guns in our nation, and Canadian law requires Americans to give up their guns at the border. Just because you live in an uncivilized nation, don't expect anyone else to lower themselves to your level.
really, i dont care what the hell canada wants...you fools have no seasons, it is cold as fuck and the only hot thing ever to come from your country is Shania Twain...other than that, you booble heads can keep your utopian society to your selves...just dont feel bad whenever your neighbors home is broke in to by a theif WITH A GUN and your neighbor has no way to protect him nor his family...
in a Free Nation...Right to Bear Arms is essential for protection...end of discussion.
In a free nation people don't have guns. The US is not free, you're slaves to the corporations and it is only in that corporate slavery that people are stupid enough to think they need guns.
You can continue to be a slave to the Monarchy of England as well...or to your Parliment...or to the fucking snow...
i care less who you are a slave to, your public education has brainwashed you into believing in Utopia and that Canada is Utopia and that the Police are their EVERY time you need them...good luck with that when the time comes that YOU need them that instant...
better to open a drawer and save your self than dial 9-1-1 and wait 15 minutes.
Canada is an independent nation. Britain has nothing to do in practical terms in Canadian government. The Canadian government is elected by the Canadian people and the Canadian government governs Canada. Your information is coming from the first 1920's. Study modern Canadian government not history from the 1920's. There is no need for guns in Canada, because you have gun fetish you assume that everyone else has a gun. Herfe, no one has or wants a gun, and we're perfectly protected without them
And the people control the government here, not the other way around. You Americans are so backward in your thinking about everything. Did you actually go to school or do your just seem uneducated and backward?
yes, Americas government is backwards...but, i assure you...i am not backwards in my logic...look into Natural Law...tell me where you see any ideology of Government or Society as having any control over what i do with MY life.
you will not find it....Fact is, it is MY life...noone can tell me what to do, what to put into, what to use my body for so long as i am not inflicting bodily/property harm upon others...nor can one steal my property without consent.
Americans who think like you are backward. The US government, as the Canadian government, are responsible to the people. It's corporations that enslave you. The only way to break your slavery to corporations is by means of government. You can't vote out the CEO of parasite health insurance companies, but government can control them for you or take their place in a single payer system and would give you better heath care for half the cost than the parasite insurance companies gouge you for.
Equating taxation with stealing is particuarly outrageous and idiotic. You have the responsibility to pay thye taxes that are required to have the rights and freedoms you expect, as stupid as the right to arm bears is.
Health care is a right in every industrialized nation in the world except your backward nation. George W. Bush even made universal healt care as a right (and a single payer system at that) when he wrote the Iraqi Constitution after Saddam Hussein was out of power. Bush gave them healthcare as a right and a single payer system and left you, his own citizens with inferior insurance-run health care with 1 out of 3 Americans not able to access the health care system, and many die for that reason.
Healthcare is a service...a service of which, in a FREE nation, a government CANNOT provide for...You, as an INDIVIDUAL, have a Right to LIFE (not services to enhance or extend or better your LIFE)...
your ideology is Socilaism...mine is Individualism...yours, places SOCIETY first...mine, places the INDIVIDUAL first...
people do not have access to Healthcare in this Country due to government policies and mandates which limit this access by making it un-affordable...research the facts.
My ideology puts the INDIVIDUAL first, not SOCIETY, nor GOVERNMENT.
My ideology allows for profits, which allow for better quality and advancement...which allows for better lives of the indiduals...which, in turn, produces a much happier and sustainable society that your Socialist ideas try to mandate in the first place, unsuccessfully, immorally and unequally mandate I might add.
Society is made up of individuals.Government is responsoble to inviduals and society as a group of individuals. I am in no way a socialist except in your weird, distorted, right wing, navel gazing, American thinking. You have no idea what socilaism is. anything that helps people and controls parasitic corporations is "socialism" in your distorted thinking. Only in the US would anyone be dilusional enough to think that way.
you live, breathe and have been taught to assume that canadas way is the right way...same in america, we are taught america is the right way....
well...America WAS the right way...100+ years ago...
now, America is no longer the home of FREE people (individuals)...
no country on this earth provides the Freedoms that once existed in America and honestly, i dont see any Country (america included) headed to this...all about control and power...government is a disease.
If the US is no longer the "Land of the Free" it has been that way decades and centuries before you were born. Corporate slavery is what's taking your rights away. Corporate profit first, people last is your American way. The US has always had fewer rights and freedoms than Canadians have.
Profits are a natural result of a capitalist society...
without profits, there is no motivation...without motivation, there is no innovation...without innovation, there is nothing.
profits are not evil...one who would block another from profits via unjust, unequel and immoral laws and statutes is evil.
profits are a part of Nature...sharing these profits is also a part of nature, called VOLUNTARY charity...this would easily attribute more to society than ANY government could ever try.
Fair profit is fine. There is nothing natural about profit. Did Adam and Eve have profit????? Profit which hurts and kills people is not fair, however.
1 in 3 people in the US don't have access to health care because in the US, your health care is rationed by the size of your wallet as will as the insurance bottom line, rationed by insurance companies. Government has nothing to do with it. Corporate greed does. Again, corporate profit and greed first, people last in your thinking.
is it the Right of more than 50% of the populus to not pay taxes but recieve MORE representation from the government which levees taxes upon "the rich"?
What about Property Taxes...these are a Responsibility?
Your logic is called Socialism...i would expect this, as you are in a Nation which incorporates this and embraces this...America has been a Socialist Nation since FDR,but, our Constitution, as written by our founders, does not agree with Socialism...Revolution is also a Right
Americans have no clue what socialism is. Anything that's good for the people, you right wingnuts idiotically call "socialism". Freedom is "socialism" and slavery to corporations is Americanism. What an idiotic idea and distorted way of thinking you right wing idealogues have.
i have a great clue what socialism/communism/collectivism is...when MY property is TAKEN through force without MY consent in order to "benefit" society...I am a SLAVE under a Socialist/Communist/Collectivist government...MY labor to benefit OTHERS without MY consent.
This contradicts freedom as MY property rights are null and void; and if I do not have Property Rights, i have NO rights...and, without Property one cannot be Sovereign therefore, one cannot be FREE.
No one pays 50% of their income in taxes The top tax rate in the US is 35%, for people making over $125,000. In Canada the top tax rate is only 29% for those over $125,000.
include the SS tax, Medicare/Medicaid tax, unemployment tax, State tax, property tax...etc...
"the rich" then pay well over 60% of their income...while, those who work at walmart (nothing against them) pay a small share of their income (maybe 20% if they own "property")...property is in quites because noone owns property if the government can tax it and forceablly steal this property from you if you do not pay taxes on it.
Canadian pay less taxes than Americans by the way, and it includes health care too, with no copay, no deductables. For someone in Canada making $60,000 pays about $10,200 in taxes including health care. Do Americans making $60,000 pay more or less than $10,200 for taxes+health insurance+deductables+copays?
again, i care nothing about canada's taxes or Gvoernment...
I care about my own...
the Republic which was established for Free People...Free Individuals with Rights...not a Government telling the Individual what they can/cannot do...not a Government which steals from one to give to another...these are controling ideas straight from the book of socialism/altruism.
you want people to be told what they can and cannot do...
you want more taxes for the rich...(which means less employees and higher prices)
you want free healthcare for all...impossible
you want a utopian society...impossible.
when, in reality...we are here as Individual beings, it is in our nature to put ourselves FIRST and society second...it is a fact of life, government cannot rearange this fact through laws.
#1, there is no such thing as global governance. There respect and order among nations, by treaties and international meetings and organizations, but that is not international governance. #2, Peple tell government what to do. It is only corporate parasites that tell you what to od and what will happen to you. #3 The Bush tax cut was unfair and bad policy. It means a fewer Rolls Royce's in the rich neighbourhoods, nothing more.
#5 Canada has had universal single payer health care for 45 years nationally, and 63 years in Saskatchewan. There is no reason thatg the US can't have at least universal health care. By 2020, the US wil come to it's senses and insurance-run health care will die and the US will have a single payer system.
#6 No one has said anything about a Utopian society. It is just that you thinking and ideas are distorted like most right wing idealogues. So fight your own fires, pick up your own garbage, be your own police, never go to a library or a public park, or drive on a public road.. build your own roads as an individual. Don't count on society to do those things for you.
No one has "free" health care. It's just that the $10200 that a Canadian making $60,000 pays in taxes pays for health care, jus as you pay an insurance company (except that the US insurance company parasitically only gives you 59 cents worth of health care for your dollar of premiums) So does an American making $60,000 pay more or less than $10200 for taxes+health insurance+deductables+copays?
after paying health care by taxation, (the $10,200 total taxes on $60,000), there is no out of pocket cost for any physician, specialist, or hospital bill, after that though.
...and in return, you get rationed healthcare which has alot of Canadians waiting months for a service that takes days in america, which leads to many Canadians coming to America and paying out of pocket to get healthcare services, primarily those involving cancer seeing as Americas doctors/hospitals provide unsurpassed cancer treatment, care and rehibilitation...
you are still accepting that healthcare is a Right...until you cease this acceptance, i cannot speak for America vs Canada.
Not true. Serious conditions are dealt with immediately. Elective procedure may take 60 days or so. Most times Canadians get treatmant and surgery as fast as, or faster than Americans get it. A handful of Canadians go to the US for treatment and most think their condition is worse than their own physicians say it is. On the other hand 1.5 million Americans come to Canada for treatment they are refused or can't afford in the US.
In the US, people have decades of wait if they need surgery at age 40, & have to wait until Medicare at age 65 to have the surgery so they have a 25 year wait, if they survive that long. It is US insurance-run health care that is rationed to improve the bottom line. Health care is in no way rationed in Canada, & only Americans, not any Canadians know of anyone on a waiting list in Canada. How is it that Americans know Canadians on waiting lists and Canadians don't? It's a US lie, that's why.
there are waiting list in CAnada, but its for major operations. And is actually quite shorter than the waiting list for those same operations in the US depending on which state you live in.. Some US patients wait yrs to get that new liver they need... its crazy. and we're use to it, and many are too scared because well why be like the rest of the developed world. many of these folks still believe the US is #1 and the world is still destroyed and bombed out. i know better ;)
@lordblazer No, you have no idea what you are talking about. The United States has the worst health care system in the industrialized world. Based on access, quality and medical outcomes, France ranks #1, Canada ranks #6, Britain ranks #17 and Amercian insurance run health acre rfanks 19th and dead last. Canadians get treatment and surgery and are released from hospital sooner that the insurance company bureaucrat who makes your medical decisions can decide if you can have the treatment or not.
@lordblazer Oh, ok I think you meant some wait for PURELY ELECTIVE surgery, not major surgery as you (probably) typoed. In Canada, if your are seriously ill, you get treatment urgently. The US is last, not first, compared to the rest of the industrialized world, as I explained below.
yea definitely man. dude I use to live in turkey, lived in japan, lived in germany. going through their healthcare systems there was amazing. I was always wondering "why doesn't america have this?" and now that we might be getting it I realize it might not work. we're too third world in our mindset.. we're fucking idiots. I'm ready to get out of here.
Health care is a right in every one of the 18 indusrtrialized nations except they US. Its the US that's the odd one, every other industrialized nation has universal health care. By 2020, the US will come into the 21st century and insurance-run and insurance rationed health care will die and the UWs will join the rest of the industrialized world and will have a universal single payer system and will have far better health care than "for profit" insurance-run health care could ever give.
again...you are speaking of every other nation...collectivist government and mindset of the people type nation...
I am speaking of America, as was founded...America that seperated from this Nation type you speak of...because in these Nations, you have no inherent Rights...all the "Rights" (in reality - permissions) are granted to YOU from guess who?...your government.
As America was founded...the government granted NO Rights because the Government had NO Rights...its called Freedom.
Yes, freedom is in Canada. Slavery to coporate profits what you have in the US. Canadians have more rights and freedoms than Americans have ever thought of.
I'm speaking of every other nation that has universal health care for the good of the people, not the corporations. The US has government of the coporations, by the coporations and for the coporations. That's American "freedom". The freedom to be corporate slaves. Some freedom that is in the US.
You really have no idea how many rights and freedoms Canadians have compared to the fewwer ones Americans have always had. You obsess about "rights" because you've had so few compared to us.
We use police here. We don't need guns. What an idiotic argument. You cause more havoc than you prevent by having a gun in the house. You kids will likely kill themselves with it while you're at work one of these days. Oh well, you can always have another kid if one or two kill themselves and others playing with your gun.
No one steals your money. You have rights and with rights go reponsibilities, and one is to pay taxes. If you don't take care of your responsibilties, your rights are meaningless.
What a depressing video. So very sad.
merchan5967 5 months ago
In the video, the patient hit the nail on the head that we have more money to do this than any other nation, yet we refuse to give our citizens true universal health coverage. Such a sad fact.
bj615 1 year ago
you should see healthcare in red states... its worse than mexico. in fact some people I know goto mexico to get better healthcare than here in the US :P
lordblazer 1 year ago
Sorry, did she say "four THOUSAND"??? I first thought she said "FORTY thousand" and I thought THAT was pretty rough! In a wealthy country like the US no one should need to think of their personal finances before seeking necessary medical treatment. In Australia, not only is everyone entitled to excellent health care, but the government also subsidises optional private health insurance by 30% for anyone who wants it. Surely the US could do the same for its citizens?
danseventyseven 1 year ago
@danseventyseven The number is 45,000 Amercians who die from lack of access to health care.
murphyj87 1 year ago
The best thing for Canadians to do, is not worry about America - but thanks for caring.
tinfoilrepair 2 years ago
more americans die in the WOMB - Keep your freeking communist propaganda out of AMerica, and go back to your stupid ass country
tinfoilrepair 2 years ago
45,000 Americans die each year because they can't afford health care and because their health care is rationed by the US insurance takeover of health care.
murphyj87 2 years ago
Prescriptions drugs are far less in Canada NOT because the government subsidizes it. Prescription drugs are far less (avgerage 40% of US costs) because the government traded patent duration for PRICE CONTROLS. If anyone pays for lower prescription drugs in Cnada, it's the stupid Americans who pay astronomical prices because your government didn't trade patent extension for PRICE CONTROLS.
murphyj87 2 years ago
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IS THERE A "POLITICAL BIAS" INVOLVED?
THERE SURE IS!!
THE STUDY CAME FROM..
6 researchers that compiled this study whom are.. ALL affiliated with Harvard Medical School who themselves have STRONG CONNECTIONS with the ***Physicians for a National Health Program***!
Dr. Woolhandler & Dr. Himmelstein, a professor & associate professor of medicine, respectively, at Harvard Medical School, are co-founders of PNHP, a group of physicians that are ADVOCATES FOR A SINGLE-PAYER HEALTH CARE SYSTEM!
bigtex501 2 years ago
YOU LIE!!!!
45,000 Americans die each year by lack of health insurance????
POLITI-FACT....
MOST OF THAT WAS FALSE!
Stan Dorn, a senior research associate at the Urban Institute
Dorn, after Replicating the Institute of Medicine's methodology....
Concluded that as many as...
22,000 Americans die annually from a lack of insurance...
NOT 45,000!
bigtex501 2 years ago
I thought I'd hear an American brag that ONLY 22,000 Americans died from lack of health care with insurance-run health care.
murphyj87 2 years ago
i rather go bankrupt than wait possible months for treatment on a disease/cancer that may kill/decapitate me during that time span
goforthewhole 2 years ago
Except where that happens is in the US. It doesn't happen in Canada, for sure, I can tell you for certain. Canadian health care saved my life, but if I were in the US insurance-run health care system I would be dead now.
murphyj87 2 years ago
I have several pre-existing conditions which would disqualify me from getting health insurance, and thus health care, in the US, even if I would lower myself to the poor quality that average Americans have. I have guaranteed health care in Canada and every Canadian has guaranteed health care, while millions upon millions of Americans are denied health care, and 45,000 of them die because of health care denial each year.
murphyj87 2 years ago
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That hep C was was caught from IV drug use or sex without a condom!
Orionx26 2 years ago
The problem is that everyone thinks that the U.S. has a free market. It doesn't. When the government pays 50% of the health care costs and there are a plethora of rules and regulations effecting hospitals/physicians and health insurance companies this hardly makes for a free market system. Plus if we had a true free market then health insurance would work much like car/home insurance. It would stay with you, not your job, have higher deductibles, and just be used for major things.
antiwar100 2 years ago
Oh no with the free market BS. Increase more competition so MORE insurance corporations can deny MORE people based of pre-existing conditions, fix around prices, and deny, delay, don't pay.
DameDiabolique 2 years ago 5
Comment removed
flynn2008 2 years ago
America used to be such a great country. But now they treat the less fortunate terribly. Thank God I live in a country that takes care of the poor.
Rodney92 2 years ago 12
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I'm not sure about this whole "dying without insurance" claim. It seems like a very extreme situation that probably happens a lot more rarely than Alan Grayson and Harvard claim. I mean, unless you're extremely poor and can't afford treatments or drugs for diseases that slowly eat away at you and then instantly kill you without any emergency signals (so you could go into the ER for free, by law), it seems highly unlikely. Sure, you can go broke trying to pay medical bills, but die? I dunno
whoo689 2 years ago
OMG did you not see this vid? This is happening in all pay levels. Wake up.
Fringe111 2 years ago 2
The mafia already extorts what government health care we have. Lets just chuck some more money their way!
Garlannd 2 years ago
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what fear mongering bullshit by Canada.
Garlannd 2 years ago
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The "findings" make it sound as though the government or some private agency just puts data out there in the public record for anyone to access on whether or not dead people had health insurance. Well, I'm pretty sure that's data that's very much private, so the only way Harvard and others could've possibly "found" numbers like 45,000 is by using certain techniques to try to estimate as best they can. But of course, they might as well be pulling numbers out their ass for that matter.
whoo689 2 years ago
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Oh, god. Now even the Canadian press is citing that bogus study that has been debunked time and again, the one that Grayson always cites. If Grayson's study is correct, why hasn't this kind of data and finding been reproduced in OTHER studies? Many studies before that measured how many people "die b/c of lack of health insurance" have found much lower numbers. Plus, it's impossible to know just how many people die b/c they didn't have insurance. Not like their insurance status is made public
whoo689 2 years ago
Well, as a liberal I will say it is true we do have some pretty good damn Doctors and medicine, but we also have people going bankrupt over HealthCare and people dying because they cant afford their Insurance, and skyrocketing prices just because the person got sick. If we dont have Universal healthcare then we should at least think of something else that we can fix, like allowing Health Insurance to cross state lines, it will make prices drop a lot.
WhatsAfterThisPlace 2 years ago 4
One utterance of the news anchor woman said it all after the reporter comment's "Peace of Mind" at the end:
HMMM.....
teleutube 2 years ago 4
"Hmmm..." is a sound we make - a sort of magic sound. It is the sound of wonder waking up
When we "hmmm...", we create a space of inquiry. What we don't know becomes more important than what we do know. Our sense of wonder is awakened.
As we begin to explore this wonderful world of the unknown, every day becomes an adventure. Imaginations run wild, creativity is unleashed, and inventions are born.
Standing at the edge of this clearing, we ask of life, "What's Possible?"
Hmmm...
teleutube 2 years ago 2
Susan Ormiston, yes... she sounds as if she had a revelation of how bad an effect the insurance takeover of health care really is.
murphyj87 2 years ago
to me "preexisting condition" constitutes a crime against humanity. you have been sick before? well good luck, you get sick again, and i, whos sole purpose is to provide you with coverage, wont cover you. so ill hope you die fast...sick sick system
armatus99 2 years ago 3
People protest saving each other's lives but not the looting of the American economy.
sad fucking day.
ToeInspector 2 years ago 2
This nation, the United States of America...
I can hardly recognize it. So glad I am not a young person and will leave soon. Truly it is not "A Wonderful Life" in the USA anymore, but rather the dreaded "Pottersville" brought by greedy old men.
greatbroad 2 years ago 3
I'm happy that America didn't win the War of 1812, or else those poor Canadians would be living in the same terrible condition as the Americans.
Hybrid5784 2 years ago 4
and we burned the White House during that war, Better check us for matches before a White House tourist tour, or we might do it again... ;-)
murphyj87 2 years ago
Damn right! Loved internationally, best sniper, birthplace of William Shatner and Superman, AND we burned down the White House!
What we need to do now is add a guitar solo to our national anthem.
Hybrid5784 2 years ago
After the fiasco of what Americans did to the Canadian national anthem at the last baseball All Star Game, next All Star Game in Toronto, the US anthem will be done by four guys with kazoos and Roseanne Barr.
murphyj87 2 years ago
About what the doctor said at the end....
There are circumstances when people are forced to declare bankruptcy after getting sick. However, it is not as a result of medical bills, but instead a consequence of the loss of income from not being able to work.
Schlesinger made the biggest point of all at the end. Peace of mind.
It's ironic how the critics claim HC reform is infringing on their freedoms, when really it expands them. It literally liberates you from the whims of insurance execs.
kingsdun 2 years ago 5
They claim that health care is not a right, but let me explain RIGHTS a bit differently. Lack of health care ends LIFE and severly limits, if not denies the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" are Constitutionally guaranteed. Anything which interferes with LIFE and THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS tramples the Constitution. The nay sayers always talk about LIBERTY, but never talk about, and want to deny LIFE and THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS.
murphyj87 2 years ago
This happened to my grandparents. They had great insurance. Grandma got cancer and the left over bills were to huge they lost everything just trying to keep up. They had a successful business a home and even a condo. She lived 2 yrs. Now grandpa is 91 and working 2 jobs just to live from payday to payday. These people were not irresponsible in any way. It could happen to any one of you.
Smartassawhip 2 years ago 12
americans will do anything to each other for money, its disgusting.
MikeRoch6969 2 years ago 7
I know a lot of folks in this position.
Smartassawhip 2 years ago 9
Health Insurance Executives kill more Americans than Al Qaeda could ever wish
StateOfTheArts 2 years ago 13
45,000 die a year with no healthcare but 178,000 die a year from improper health care treatment or mistakes.
TheLiddlekiddle 2 years ago 6
So thats why those socialist countries have healthcare so much cheaper than ours?
waltermh111 2 years ago 3
Whoever thumbed down your comment needs to take a chill pill and do some research. In London, you don't get charged for healthcare and the average prescription price is less than $15. The average insurance plan is $400-$2000 and a $1000 deductible. I will take the socialized medicine!
DameDiabolique 2 years ago 6
> Favorites
> TheAmazingAtheist
I don't think so. Better luck next life Ayn Rand. Enjoy your government involvement.
maddoxfanx 2 years ago
The Canadian Health Care system is great. There are no worries, cash registers, insurance companies, or bills to pay. We Canadians spend our tax dollars on programs designed to take care of its citizens instead of spending tax dollars on too big to fails, wars, and just plain giving money away to off shore banks. Are Canadians wrong for taking care of each other? That is what socialism is, caring for your fellow citizens.
Dennis Kucinich seems to be the only one pushing for morality in the US.
2minstral 2 years ago 6
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in regards to the doctor that went broke........ that is what happens when you live beyond your means. dude was making that kind of money and having it go away so quick unless you are in debt. he lost his job so he lost his paycheck and could make payments. he was never a wealthy person. just a guy who could afford big payments for a fancy house and several nice cars
soundmoneyfan 2 years ago
It does'nt matter how he got there. The fact that he's there is a shame.. Wingnut asshole
RightWingBashers 2 years ago 4
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it is a shame he did not save his money, i agree. it is hard to do these days in the world of corporate consumerism and marketing we live in these days, and what is a wingnut? i've never heard that one before
soundmoneyfan 2 years ago
He was living within his means until he got sick
Nothing here said he was in debt, or that he was living beyond his means
All it said was that he got sick with a dibilitating disease
He lost his job, and few people can save enough money to go from a nice lifestyle to no money and hundreds of thousands in medical costs and keep themselves afloat
Its not even good for an economy for somebody to keep millions unused in the bank, and thats what he would need to survive such an illness for decades
waltermh111 2 years ago 6
It IS good for some one to save money. It is called CAPITAL. Where do you think capital is supposed to come from?? Gov't debt that requires massive interest payments? The federal reserve's printing press?? Do you think that a country does not need capital and all we need is consumption?? What about production? If you don't advocate for strong capital, how can you make investments to build production? The point of my comment is that some people that make $250+ a year still live paycheck2paycheck
soundmoneyfan 2 years ago
Who says he didnt save money?
This clip didnt say he didnt save. But for his disorder and having no job because of it, he would run through any savings very fast, within a few years.
You can spend 10s of thousands a year, maybe 100k the first year, and run out of a million dollar savings in 10 years or less.
He said hes been living with the disease for 18 years by now.
I didnt see a single one of your last lines that did anything but assume things about him and his level of responsibility.
waltermh111 2 years ago 3
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My friends mother went through Huntington's Disease and she never made as much as this doctor used to make and there was no bankruptcy and they didn't ask for hand outs. Huntington's is incurable, management is the only expense. If you go from a mansion and 5 vintage cars to living out of a car in a few years time it is a fair assumption that dude did not have clam to the expensive assets he was enjoying, so he must have been making payments on them, which means......debt
soundmoneyfan 2 years ago
And that's their own fucking fault for spending so goddamn much, in my eyes.
kryl88 2 years ago
As for your other lines.
Its all disjointed and societies have built production without capitalism before, but still, what does any of that have to do with this?
I agree saving is good. even Euro citizens save money
Sure, people making $250k a year can still live paycheck to paycheck, but your assumptions were about him personally.
I dont know what this new point has to do with anything.
How does your point change the discussion?
That he shouldnt be helped if he made a bad life choice?
waltermh111 2 years ago
First off, the reason I ranted about the issue of capital b/c you said that savings is bad for the economy which is false. Yes other countries have built industry without private capital but in those cases the state controls the means of production (socialism). America at this point is not a socialist state. If people elect Dennis Kucinich and want an honest socialist gov't that is one thing, but for now it is corporations and Wall Street trying to loot the treasury. It is called corporatism.
soundmoneyfan 2 years ago
And to lot individuals are being looted too with the insurance-run and rationed heath care system you have right now.
murphyj87 2 years ago
I agree 100%. At what point in my above comments did you think I support the employer based health insurance system?
soundmoneyfan 2 years ago
You only mentioned the treasury (which to me means an arm of the government, as in Secretary of the Treasury), not individuals. Maybe you meant individuals too.
murphyj87 2 years ago
i moving to Canada for the health care because it will cost me more then what i make here for health care.
THE6DEAD 2 years ago 4
I live in Canada and am proud of our health care system. It has its problems but when I compare it to Americans, I feel sorry for them.
Rodney92 2 years ago 10
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Yes...and i feel sorry for your National Defense system...and your Health Care system as well; we may pay more...but quality is that much better and well deserving of the pay.
Y ou can keep your collectivist ways...
helltrackrider 2 years ago
You are ragging on the CanadianNational Defense???? You haven't been watching the US National Defense that much lately... OK, I am glad to hear that you like the Iraq & Afghanistan War so much. Rather have Socialized Canadian Healthcare than Gizillion for wars based on lies.
DameDiabolique 2 years ago 5
well, technically...we arent at "War" seeing as congress never declared "War"...
you collectivist/altruist cannot fathom the idea of individualism where everyone is responsible for their own actions and life can you?
The idea that you exist for the needs of the society is pathetic...you may as well call your self a slave, because in reality...you are.
helltrackrider 2 years ago
You donl;t mind having a socialized government run military fighting your wars. Why not just hire private enterprise mercinaries? Oh, that's right you did, Blackwater, who used innocent Iraqis walking down the street for target practice, and KBR, and the guys they hired to guard the embassy, while they were having a drunken orgy instead of guarding the embassy they were paid to do. That's the American way.
murphyj87 2 years ago
the military is provided to defend our Rights as humans from enemies...we also have the 2nd amendment, or had the 2nd amendment, in order to protect these Rights closer at home...the military is necessary in the event of a foreign enemy; extremely vital.
The military isnt forcing anyone to work for it, socialized healthcare would force doctors to recieve a certain wage and make it illegal for them to decline and work privately from the socialized healthcare...absurd.
helltrackrider 2 years ago
You have to leave your viagra, I mean guns, that you Americans have such a sexual fetish for at the border if you come here. Canadian border guards have had to be armed and draw their guns on Americans about 12 times week in order to disarm the stupid gun lovers. The US military does nothing for me, except get Canadian kids killed in Afghanistan in YOUR war. The US Air Force killed 4 Canadian kids in Afghanistan by bombing them "by mistake".
murphyj87 2 years ago
im sorry that you do not, nor does your country, support an individuals right to own property...
even more sorry that my country is going the same way.
guns, any means of protection, are necessary to defend property and life from anyone who tries to take it from you...
Aside from that, i dont support nor condone the war...and if Canada didnt, they wouldnt be in it either...so, its blame goes both ways...
helltrackrider 2 years ago
Oh we own property, just NOT guns. We own all kinds of property. We don't need guns for protection, and only you paranoid Americans think you do. That's another way you're backward compared to the rest of the world. Your gun fetish.
murphyj87 2 years ago
you dont own Property.
even Americans dont own Property, only property owners in America and Canada are the Governments.
Used to be able to own property in america, until we turned to Communism under Roosevelt and FDR...now, the government can seize your land for not paying into the tax pool that in most cases doesnt benefit the land owner...
i moved to an area, no kids...yet pay over 1,000 of my property tax to public education....make sense? if you enjoy communism, then yes it does.
helltrackrider 2 years ago
Of course we own property, are you totally stupid? A far higher percentage of Canadians own houses that the percentage of Americans who, own houses, because we pay half of what you do for heatlh care by paying it through out taxes. We own houses, we own cars, we own whatever we can afford, and the average Cnadaian can afford more than the average American can. No one here WANTS or NEEDS guns though. Only your backward nation thinks that way
murphyj87 2 years ago
You do not OWN the land your house sits on.
You own Real Estate....huge difference in Real Estate and Property.
If your government can take it from you for not paying taxes on it, then you do not OWN it...
if your government can tell you what to build on it and what you cannot build on it...then you do not OWN it...
Put it this way, you OWN your body...you can tatoo "FUCK YOU" on your forehead...as of right now, the Government cannot tell you that is illegal for you to do.
helltrackrider 2 years ago
Your thinking is totally warped if you think you need a gun for protection. No one in the rest of the world thinks that way. No wonder we all think you Americans are totally insane.
murphyj87 2 years ago
noone in the rest of the world ever had a notion of freedom either.
freedom isnt given to you from your government and ultimately YOU are responsible for your freedom and therefore you have to protect it.
but you are right, today, in America, there really is no need for guns seeing as we have little Freedom and are losing the last bit of it under Fuhrer Obama.
helltrackrider 2 years ago
Canadians have far more rights and freedoms than Americans. Rights and freedoms have absolutely nothing to do with guns in civilized nations. You need psychiatric help if you think you need a gun for protection. That's mental illness.
murphyj87 2 years ago
Murphy: you an idiot, so continue to pass that one please, the more people HATE america, the less assholes will come here
tinfoilrepair 2 years ago
Yeah, The US has more that it's share of home grown ones like you.
murphyj87 2 years ago
pass it on murphy - good job
tinfoilrepair 2 years ago
You really need psychiatric help, if you really believe the garbage you say..
murphyj87 2 years ago
You're REALLY out of touch with reality.
murphyj87 2 years ago
Canadians live an average of 2.6 years longer than Americans. A lot of that us our better health care, some of it is your idiotic gun fetish. No one in the civilized world needs guns for protection, and the US is the only nation backward enough to think they need guns.
murphyj87 2 years ago
You're totally wrong, by the way, Canadian physicians are in private practice just like American physicians are. Nobody tells them how much they can make. If they want to work 80 hour weeks and see twice as many patients and make $200,000 they can. Nobody stops them. Canada doess not have socialized medicine, where physicians are on a fixed salary. .
murphyj87 2 years ago
You have no idea what you're talking about. All government does is pay the bills. There's no interference at all. It's in the US inirancce-run system that you have an insurance company bureaucrart between you and your physician. Nothing of the kind happens in Canada. It's just up to our physicians and us, no one else inteferes here
murphyj87 2 years ago
i am speaking in regards to America's plan...fixed pay for certain procedures, as medicare does...a doctor busts his ass at school and with student loans...he should be able to charge what ever the heck he wants to for any procedure...if people think it is too much, they wont see him.
The Government has no authority in setting the wage of doctors nor to tell the people that they cannot seek medical help aside from the government plan...absolutely none. but, again, we are turning to communism
helltrackrider 2 years ago
Actually I have far better health care in Canada than I had when I LIVED in the US. American Insurance-run health care is very low quality compared to what I've had in Canada. When I lived in the US I was shocked at how much worse and how rationed US insurance-run health care was.
murphyj87 2 years ago
but still...you live in Canada...
helltrackrider 2 years ago
Yes, that's why I have far better health care than you. Canadian health care ranks #6 of 19 industrialized nations. US insurance-run health care ranks 19th out 19 nations in the industrialized world.
murphyj87 2 years ago
The fact that only 64% of Americans can afford to go to a physician is one cause of your last place finish. Killing 122 Americans a day from lack of affordable health care is another factor in your last place finish. If you had universal health care, you would be ranked far higher, but you're too set in your ways to be the last nation in the industrialized world to provide health care for ALL it's citizen. The US is the only nation backward enough not to provide health care to all.
murphyj87 2 years ago
I live in Canada, in part, because I have better health care than I would have in the US.
murphyj87 2 years ago
your opinion...you are entitled to that.
helltrackrider 2 years ago
It's fact, not only opinion.
murphyj87 2 years ago
really...
again, you are entitled to your OPINION.
Personally, i will stick with the doctors here in the States seeing as i feel they are the best in the world.
helltrackrider 2 years ago
You'll stick with the 19th best health care system in the industrialized world and I'll stick with the 6th best health care in the industrialized world.
murphyj87 2 years ago
says who...the W.H.O.
go figure, a socialist organization trying to rank a health care system that is based on some individual choice...good job.
i'll take the increased survival rates in America, you take the decreased survival rates.
like i said...it an opinion...its the WHO's opinion that teh US is ranked any different than anyone elses...
helltrackrider 2 years ago
That is the evalualtion of EVERY non American source, and even some American ones.
murphyj87 2 years ago
What increased survival rates? Canada has better outcomes than US insurance-run health care. Ask the 122 Americans who died today, 45,000 a year, if they'd want Canadian health care and they'd jump at the chance.
murphyj87 2 years ago
Your right....
in a Socialist Society.
I'm right...
in a free Society.
helltrackrider 2 years ago
Except Canadians have more rights and freedoms than Americans ever had. Tell Canada's Conservatiove Prime Minister and cabinet that Canada is a socialist nation. Nonetheless, Conservatives know that even whispering they would want a US stlyle insurance-run health care system would be political suicide. They'd go from 143 seats to maybe 23 seats if they tried that.
murphyj87 2 years ago
The US is a laughingstock in the rest of the world because a supposedly civilized nation would not have health care for all it's citizens.
murphyj87 2 years ago
Healthcare is not a Right and therefore no "citizens" are entitled to it...you use the term citizen like that is a good thing.
being a "citizen" is not a good thing...this is the first step to You existing for the greater good of Society...this is why the US cannot go to Welfare Healthcare...noone else but myself is entitled to my wage and my property...noone.
And you, as an individual - not citizen, cannot tell a doctor "fix me...i have a Right to Healthcare"..
you are blind to Liberty
helltrackrider 2 years ago
Health care is a right in civilized nations. That being the case, it makes sense that that US is an uncivilized nation, and the rest of the world looks down on you as a killer just like Al Quaida.
murphyj87 2 years ago
You are a moron...
Healthcare is not, and cannot be, a Right as your Healthcare is derived from another individual...
Life is a Right, maintaining this Right is YOUR Responsibility...not the rest of Societies.
Again, Society has no Rights as groups of people cannot have Rights...Rights are inherent to individuals only.
What gives you the Right to steal money from anothers pocket to pay for a flu shot?
explain this and i will agree with you that Healthcare is a Right...good luck.
helltrackrider 2 years ago
Only petty Americans feel that way. Goerge W. Bush wrote the Iraqi Constitution and in it he made health care a right, and created a single payer health care system for Iraq (a Canadian type), yet he left hios own nation thinking wrongly that health care is not the right he gave Iraquis, and left the US with insurance-run health care
murphyj87 2 years ago
"George Bush made Health Care a Right"
again, your ignorance shines...
Rights are inherent...they cannot be deemed upon you from another being or Government...Healthcare is not a Right due to it imposing on another individuals Rights.
Rights stop where anothers Rights begin...everything in between is Responsibilities
helltrackrider 2 years ago
George W Bush made health care a right in the Iraqi Constitution which he wroote, but left second rate rights for his own people.
murphyj87 2 years ago
Rights and responsibilities change over time. The 2nd amendment is an example of an archaic right that doesn't belong in a civilized, industrialized nation the 21st century, let alone the 20th century.
murphyj87 2 years ago
Fail...
the Second Amendment is an inherent Right of protection...you cannot strip the individuals of their Right to protect themselves against ALL enemies...these enemies include the Government; as seen in the Revolutionary War...
Right to Bear Arms is inherent and the ONLY time it becomes a problem is when you try and limit or abolish this Right...then, all you have are "criminals" with guns and common people without the means of protecting themselves...
helltrackrider 2 years ago
The US second amendment is an anachronism and doesn't belong in a civilized 21st century nation.
murphyj87 2 years ago
that is your socialist/utopian opinion.
here, you have a Right to that opinion...other places you do not...are opinions legal in advanced civilized nations?
helltrackrider 2 years ago
Opinions are allowed, but 95% of Canadians don't want guns in our nation, and Canadian law requires Americans to give up their guns at the border. Just because you live in an uncivilized nation, don't expect anyone else to lower themselves to your level.
murphyj87 2 years ago
really, i dont care what the hell canada wants...you fools have no seasons, it is cold as fuck and the only hot thing ever to come from your country is Shania Twain...other than that, you booble heads can keep your utopian society to your selves...just dont feel bad whenever your neighbors home is broke in to by a theif WITH A GUN and your neighbor has no way to protect him nor his family...
in a Free Nation...Right to Bear Arms is essential for protection...end of discussion.
helltrackrider 2 years ago
In a free nation people don't have guns. The US is not free, you're slaves to the corporations and it is only in that corporate slavery that people are stupid enough to think they need guns.
murphyj87 2 years ago
Again...YOUR opinion.
You can continue to be a slave to the Monarchy of England as well...or to your Parliment...or to the fucking snow...
i care less who you are a slave to, your public education has brainwashed you into believing in Utopia and that Canada is Utopia and that the Police are their EVERY time you need them...good luck with that when the time comes that YOU need them that instant...
better to open a drawer and save your self than dial 9-1-1 and wait 15 minutes.
helltrackrider 2 years ago
Canada is an independent nation. Britain has nothing to do in practical terms in Canadian government. The Canadian government is elected by the Canadian people and the Canadian government governs Canada. Your information is coming from the first 1920's. Study modern Canadian government not history from the 1920's. There is no need for guns in Canada, because you have gun fetish you assume that everyone else has a gun. Herfe, no one has or wants a gun, and we're perfectly protected without them
murphyj87 2 years ago
And the people control the government here, not the other way around. You Americans are so backward in your thinking about everything. Did you actually go to school or do your just seem uneducated and backward?
murphyj87 2 years ago
the majority or the people?
yes, Americas government is backwards...but, i assure you...i am not backwards in my logic...look into Natural Law...tell me where you see any ideology of Government or Society as having any control over what i do with MY life.
you will not find it....Fact is, it is MY life...noone can tell me what to do, what to put into, what to use my body for so long as i am not inflicting bodily/property harm upon others...nor can one steal my property without consent.
helltrackrider 2 years ago
Americans who think like you are backward. The US government, as the Canadian government, are responsible to the people. It's corporations that enslave you. The only way to break your slavery to corporations is by means of government. You can't vote out the CEO of parasite health insurance companies, but government can control them for you or take their place in a single payer system and would give you better heath care for half the cost than the parasite insurance companies gouge you for.
murphyj87 2 years ago
Equating taxation with stealing is particuarly outrageous and idiotic. You have the responsibility to pay thye taxes that are required to have the rights and freedoms you expect, as stupid as the right to arm bears is.
murphyj87 2 years ago
Really?
So...
Education is a Right?
Medicare is a Right?
Social Security is a Right?
Welfare is a Right?
Unemployment is a Right?
Afterall, more than 50% of our taxes go towards these "Rights"
helltrackrider 2 years ago
Health care is a right in every industrialized nation in the world except your backward nation. George W. Bush even made universal healt care as a right (and a single payer system at that) when he wrote the Iraqi Constitution after Saddam Hussein was out of power. Bush gave them healthcare as a right and a single payer system and left you, his own citizens with inferior insurance-run health care with 1 out of 3 Americans not able to access the health care system, and many die for that reason.
murphyj87 2 years ago
Healthcare is a service...a service of which, in a FREE nation, a government CANNOT provide for...You, as an INDIVIDUAL, have a Right to LIFE (not services to enhance or extend or better your LIFE)...
your ideology is Socilaism...mine is Individualism...yours, places SOCIETY first...mine, places the INDIVIDUAL first...
people do not have access to Healthcare in this Country due to government policies and mandates which limit this access by making it un-affordable...research the facts.
helltrackrider 2 years ago
My ideology puts PEOPLE first, your ideology puts cooporate PROFITS first and PEOPLE last.
murphyj87 2 years ago
My ideology puts the INDIVIDUAL first, not SOCIETY, nor GOVERNMENT.
My ideology allows for profits, which allow for better quality and advancement...which allows for better lives of the indiduals...which, in turn, produces a much happier and sustainable society that your Socialist ideas try to mandate in the first place, unsuccessfully, immorally and unequally mandate I might add.
helltrackrider 2 years ago
Society is made up of individuals.Government is responsoble to inviduals and society as a group of individuals. I am in no way a socialist except in your weird, distorted, right wing, navel gazing, American thinking. You have no idea what socilaism is. anything that helps people and controls parasitic corporations is "socialism" in your distorted thinking. Only in the US would anyone be dilusional enough to think that way.
murphyj87 2 years ago
you live, breathe and have been taught to assume that canadas way is the right way...same in america, we are taught america is the right way....
well...America WAS the right way...100+ years ago...
now, America is no longer the home of FREE people (individuals)...
no country on this earth provides the Freedoms that once existed in America and honestly, i dont see any Country (america included) headed to this...all about control and power...government is a disease.
helltrackrider 2 years ago
If the US is no longer the "Land of the Free" it has been that way decades and centuries before you were born. Corporate slavery is what's taking your rights away. Corporate profit first, people last is your American way. The US has always had fewer rights and freedoms than Canadians have.
murphyj87 2 years ago
Profits are a natural result of a capitalist society...
without profits, there is no motivation...without motivation, there is no innovation...without innovation, there is nothing.
profits are not evil...one who would block another from profits via unjust, unequel and immoral laws and statutes is evil.
profits are a part of Nature...sharing these profits is also a part of nature, called VOLUNTARY charity...this would easily attribute more to society than ANY government could ever try.
helltrackrider 2 years ago
Fair profit is fine. There is nothing natural about profit. Did Adam and Eve have profit????? Profit which hurts and kills people is not fair, however.
murphyj87 2 years ago
1 in 3 people in the US don't have access to health care because in the US, your health care is rationed by the size of your wallet as will as the insurance bottom line, rationed by insurance companies. Government has nothing to do with it. Corporate greed does. Again, corporate profit and greed first, people last in your thinking.
murphyj87 2 years ago
Also,
is it the Right of more than 50% of the populus to not pay taxes but recieve MORE representation from the government which levees taxes upon "the rich"?
What about Property Taxes...these are a Responsibility?
Your logic is called Socialism...i would expect this, as you are in a Nation which incorporates this and embraces this...America has been a Socialist Nation since FDR,but, our Constitution, as written by our founders, does not agree with Socialism...Revolution is also a Right
helltrackrider 2 years ago
Americans have no clue what socialism is. Anything that's good for the people, you right wingnuts idiotically call "socialism". Freedom is "socialism" and slavery to corporations is Americanism. What an idiotic idea and distorted way of thinking you right wing idealogues have.
murphyj87 2 years ago
i have a great clue what socialism/communism/collectivism is...when MY property is TAKEN through force without MY consent in order to "benefit" society...I am a SLAVE under a Socialist/Communist/Collectivist government...MY labor to benefit OTHERS without MY consent.
This contradicts freedom as MY property rights are null and void; and if I do not have Property Rights, i have NO rights...and, without Property one cannot be Sovereign therefore, one cannot be FREE.
helltrackrider 2 years ago
The only ones who don't pay their share of taxes is the top 1%, the rich, having gotten an unfair tax cut from George W. Bush.
murphyj87 2 years ago
unfair...
you are pathetic.
why must one person pay over 50% of their income while another pays nothing?
Communism...that is why.
helltrackrider 2 years ago
No one pays 50% of their income in taxes The top tax rate in the US is 35%, for people making over $125,000. In Canada the top tax rate is only 29% for those over $125,000.
murphyj87 2 years ago
No one pays over 50%?
include the SS tax, Medicare/Medicaid tax, unemployment tax, State tax, property tax...etc...
"the rich" then pay well over 60% of their income...while, those who work at walmart (nothing against them) pay a small share of their income (maybe 20% if they own "property")...property is in quites because noone owns property if the government can tax it and forceablly steal this property from you if you do not pay taxes on it.
helltrackrider 2 years ago
Canadian pay less taxes than Americans by the way, and it includes health care too, with no copay, no deductables. For someone in Canada making $60,000 pays about $10,200 in taxes including health care. Do Americans making $60,000 pay more or less than $10,200 for taxes+health insurance+deductables+copays?
murphyj87 2 years ago
again, i care nothing about canada's taxes or Gvoernment...
I care about my own...
the Republic which was established for Free People...Free Individuals with Rights...not a Government telling the Individual what they can/cannot do...not a Government which steals from one to give to another...these are controling ideas straight from the book of socialism/altruism.
helltrackrider 2 years ago
And Canadians have more rights and freedoms than Americans have. You talk about rights so much because you never have had many since 1776.
murphyj87 2 years ago
basically...you are an idiot.
you want global governance...
you want people to be told what they can and cannot do...
you want more taxes for the rich...(which means less employees and higher prices)
you want free healthcare for all...impossible
you want a utopian society...impossible.
when, in reality...we are here as Individual beings, it is in our nature to put ourselves FIRST and society second...it is a fact of life, government cannot rearange this fact through laws.
helltrackrider 2 years ago
#1, there is no such thing as global governance. There respect and order among nations, by treaties and international meetings and organizations, but that is not international governance. #2, Peple tell government what to do. It is only corporate parasites that tell you what to od and what will happen to you. #3 The Bush tax cut was unfair and bad policy. It means a fewer Rolls Royce's in the rich neighbourhoods, nothing more.
murphyj87 2 years ago
#5 Canada has had universal single payer health care for 45 years nationally, and 63 years in Saskatchewan. There is no reason thatg the US can't have at least universal health care. By 2020, the US wil come to it's senses and insurance-run health care will die and the US will have a single payer system.
murphyj87 2 years ago
#6 No one has said anything about a Utopian society. It is just that you thinking and ideas are distorted like most right wing idealogues. So fight your own fires, pick up your own garbage, be your own police, never go to a library or a public park, or drive on a public road.. build your own roads as an individual. Don't count on society to do those things for you.
murphyj87 2 years ago
No one has "free" health care. It's just that the $10200 that a Canadian making $60,000 pays in taxes pays for health care, jus as you pay an insurance company (except that the US insurance company parasitically only gives you 59 cents worth of health care for your dollar of premiums) So does an American making $60,000 pay more or less than $10200 for taxes+health insurance+deductables+copays?
murphyj87 2 years ago
after paying health care by taxation, (the $10,200 total taxes on $60,000), there is no out of pocket cost for any physician, specialist, or hospital bill, after that though.
murphyj87 2 years ago
...and in return, you get rationed healthcare which has alot of Canadians waiting months for a service that takes days in america, which leads to many Canadians coming to America and paying out of pocket to get healthcare services, primarily those involving cancer seeing as Americas doctors/hospitals provide unsurpassed cancer treatment, care and rehibilitation...
you are still accepting that healthcare is a Right...until you cease this acceptance, i cannot speak for America vs Canada.
helltrackrider 2 years ago
Not true. Serious conditions are dealt with immediately. Elective procedure may take 60 days or so. Most times Canadians get treatmant and surgery as fast as, or faster than Americans get it. A handful of Canadians go to the US for treatment and most think their condition is worse than their own physicians say it is. On the other hand 1.5 million Americans come to Canada for treatment they are refused or can't afford in the US.
murphyj87 2 years ago
In the US, people have decades of wait if they need surgery at age 40, & have to wait until Medicare at age 65 to have the surgery so they have a 25 year wait, if they survive that long. It is US insurance-run health care that is rationed to improve the bottom line. Health care is in no way rationed in Canada, & only Americans, not any Canadians know of anyone on a waiting list in Canada. How is it that Americans know Canadians on waiting lists and Canadians don't? It's a US lie, that's why.
murphyj87 2 years ago
@murphyj87
there are waiting list in CAnada, but its for major operations. And is actually quite shorter than the waiting list for those same operations in the US depending on which state you live in.. Some US patients wait yrs to get that new liver they need... its crazy. and we're use to it, and many are too scared because well why be like the rest of the developed world. many of these folks still believe the US is #1 and the world is still destroyed and bombed out. i know better ;)
lordblazer 1 year ago
@lordblazer No, you have no idea what you are talking about. The United States has the worst health care system in the industrialized world. Based on access, quality and medical outcomes, France ranks #1, Canada ranks #6, Britain ranks #17 and Amercian insurance run health acre rfanks 19th and dead last. Canadians get treatment and surgery and are released from hospital sooner that the insurance company bureaucrat who makes your medical decisions can decide if you can have the treatment or not.
murphyj87 1 year ago
@lordblazer Oh, ok I think you meant some wait for PURELY ELECTIVE surgery, not major surgery as you (probably) typoed. In Canada, if your are seriously ill, you get treatment urgently. The US is last, not first, compared to the rest of the industrialized world, as I explained below.
murphyj87 1 year ago
@murphyj87
yea definitely man. dude I use to live in turkey, lived in japan, lived in germany. going through their healthcare systems there was amazing. I was always wondering "why doesn't america have this?" and now that we might be getting it I realize it might not work. we're too third world in our mindset.. we're fucking idiots. I'm ready to get out of here.
lordblazer 1 year ago
@lordblazer Ok, sorry, I thought you were defending American health care.
murphyj87 1 year ago
Health care is a right in every one of the 18 indusrtrialized nations except they US. Its the US that's the odd one, every other industrialized nation has universal health care. By 2020, the US will come into the 21st century and insurance-run and insurance rationed health care will die and the UWs will join the rest of the industrialized world and will have a universal single payer system and will have far better health care than "for profit" insurance-run health care could ever give.
murphyj87 2 years ago
again...you are speaking of every other nation...collectivist government and mindset of the people type nation...
I am speaking of America, as was founded...America that seperated from this Nation type you speak of...because in these Nations, you have no inherent Rights...all the "Rights" (in reality - permissions) are granted to YOU from guess who?...your government.
As America was founded...the government granted NO Rights because the Government had NO Rights...its called Freedom.
helltrackrider 2 years ago
Yes, freedom is in Canada. Slavery to coporate profits what you have in the US. Canadians have more rights and freedoms than Americans have ever thought of.
murphyj87 2 years ago
I'm speaking of every other nation that has universal health care for the good of the people, not the corporations. The US has government of the coporations, by the coporations and for the coporations. That's American "freedom". The freedom to be corporate slaves. Some freedom that is in the US.
murphyj87 2 years ago
You really have no idea how many rights and freedoms Canadians have compared to the fewwer ones Americans have always had. You obsess about "rights" because you've had so few compared to us.
murphyj87 2 years ago
The second amendment belongs in the 18th century, when blunderbusses fires about 30 feet.
murphyj87 2 years ago
thats your opinion...
Second Amendment belongs within my possession as it is a necessity to protect my Life, Liberty and Property.
helltrackrider 2 years ago
We use police here. We don't need guns. What an idiotic argument. You cause more havoc than you prevent by having a gun in the house. You kids will likely kill themselves with it while you're at work one of these days. Oh well, you can always have another kid if one or two kill themselves and others playing with your gun.
murphyj87 2 years ago
Rights AND Responsibilities...
Right - Have a gun and any necessary means of protection...
Responsibility - Keep this item away from those whom are incompetent to the point where they cannot use this item (Kids)
You see how these corelate?
helltrackrider 2 years ago
When you get to the Canadian border you have to give up your guns when you travel into a more advanced nation from your uncivilized one.
murphyj87 2 years ago
hahaha...more advanced.
that made my day.
helltrackrider 2 years ago
In civilized nations health care is a right, if it's not in the US, it means you're barbarians, not civilized.
murphyj87 2 years ago
No one steals your money. You have rights and with rights go reponsibilities, and one is to pay taxes. If you don't take care of your responsibilties, your rights are meaningless.
murphyj87 2 years ago
Paying taxes is a Responsibility?
Wow...you are a freggin loon...no wonder you support radical healthcare by the government...
seriously, how can invading ones Property Right justify taxation as a Responsibility?
you really need to touch up on your common sense
helltrackrider 2 years ago
Yes, paying taxes is a responsibility required to have the rights you crave.
murphyj87 2 years ago