1.10 - New Delhi India 1947

[MarxistStudant]

The best would be to reduce the state control until it wasn't needed anymore and gradually give control to the workers, not to the private sector.

But Gandhi is one of my favorite leaders and his simplicity, and hunger for justice is certailly on of the things that changed india form clolny into economic power.

After the "socialist" governments stablished a strong sutructural base, capitalism could easily enter and dammage the democracy, transfering power to the rich.

[TheWilliamcale]

Socialism simply does not work!!

[MarxistStudant]

The difference between "does not work" and "did not work" is ratter big, commarade. I trust you are intelligent enought to notice it.

But if you want exemples of "working socialism" take a look at the commune de paris or catalonia durring the spanish civil war.

I can also give you lots of exemples on not-working capitalism (witch are most of the cases), but I trust you're smart enought to know them.

[TheWilliamcale]

it will never work..the economy of india is presenty growing at nearly 10% a year for a center left govt..as we speak 100s of people are being lifted out of poverty

[MarxistStudant]

Never... never is too much time, but don't forget: India's poverty was generated by capitalism (imperialist one).

Don't forget that when we ask "does it works" we should think "works for whom"?

You see, in paris, during the commune, socialism worked (for the common people of the city, 90%) until it was crushed by the other 10% ready to install back the system that worked (for them and a few more).

[TheWilliamcale]

india poverty was generated by beig a backwards society based on a caste system colonialsim probably benifited india more than it hurt it it gave it science and education and modern industry..

free market capitalism will eventually create a huge middle class for India

and best of luck to them!

[MarxistStudant]

Form what I studied on colonialism, Indias econonomy was broken appart due british colonialism, and the few who could profit from this "science and education and medern industry" were the british themselves.

Free market capitalism will create a huge middle class (india has 1bi people, 10% is 100mi), but isn't the saviour of humanity, the injustices of capitlalism (added vaule, wage slavery, some poverty) will remain.

[TheWilliamcale]

they were living in mud huts under a fuedal caste system look i am no fan of the british empire..it was brutal all empires are the roman the french

the soviet..all empires are evil

BUT..they did drag them into the modern world.

[MarxistStudant]

The evil consequences of imperialist capitalism are much bigger than the good ones. Modern world... It seems for me most of the people over there don't really live it. Besides, they lost much in the colonization, millions died of hunger during it, and due it nowadays. They also lost their economical independence, and consequently a part of their political independence.

[TheWilliamcale]

who invented the computer you are using? the car you drive? the tv you watch?the lightbulb? modern philosophy, hell who created the concept of marxism?

Europeans like me..its all our doing good or bad..the rest of the world was living in mud huts..

[MarxistStudant]

Indeed many good things, remember tought that, there are lots of bad aspects on it. Remember the exploitation, base of the capitalist system, witch will not disappear from the world until capitalism also have.

Besides this, I can only use all this technological wonders because the class struggles have advanced to a stage in witch my fathers are well payed enought to buy them. The fight agaisnt capitalism led them to such victories, not capitalism itself.

[TheWilliamcale]

my ancestors ran into battle naked

Hail Ceasar.

[MarxistStudant]

... ehh... good for them....

Hail Marx.

[TheWilliamcale]

vive napoleon vive de gaulle

[movieguy7589]

no it wasn't....it was done by the british as they slowly striped away the indian industries....

[TheWilliamcale]

india isnt benifiting from a market system?

i think you need to study their situation their economy is growing at about 10% per years and every day 10 000 enter the middle class.socialism never did that for them

[movieguy7589]

I agree with that...socialism doesn't work...communism does....maybe they should be communists....lol...look at china....seriously....I wouldn't mind...

[TheWilliamcale]

communism? communsim was the cultural revolution stalins collectivization of the ukraine and pol pot. thats killed millions upon millions.what china has now is a mixture of old state industry

run along the principles of french dirigism or japanese MITI , most of the really dynamic aspects of chinese economy is pure pivate market capitalism with low taxes and no or little social welfare

its hypercapitalism not communism

[movieguy7589]

what do u mean by social welfare....does that includes heatlhcare.....one of the most positive aspects of socialism though is free or low cost healthcare for all....look at cuba now....they got better teeth than americans....there are positives and negatives of all economic models...get it right....

[TheWilliamcale]

well fine thats cuba and the quality of its health care has been exaggerated

many of those clinics are really rat infested pest holes

look social welfare is okay in moderation

european socials welfare especialy in scandanavia is very benificial if expensive in tax terms, my only point is in china IN CHINA if you do reserch theire is VERY LITTLE social wefare in china

there is even more socials wefare say in the USA than china

actually northern europe had very successfull wefare states

[macbook1994]

Like Communist China, Gandhi was like Mao, who wanted a simple, agrarian economy, based on self-reliance. Nehru was like Liu Shaoqi, who wanted industrial development and Soviet-like central planning in terms of economy.

[billyysands]

it kept india backwards it felt capitalism was an aspect of imperialism.. the irony was capitalism is now finally being practiced and india is taking of like a rocket! under a center left governement

[vkafghan]

again Proud to be an Indian

[bhatwadekar]

Mahalonobis was an idiot, Gandhiji was right, we needed freeing up of the economy and a bottom up system of development rather than top-down and central planning, god knows we have enough entreprenuerial talent that would have allowed us to skip the huge period of stagnation we went through

[goPistons06]

@bhatwadekar it´s not just entreprenurial talent india has, it´s talent in general! india has produced soooooo many geniuses

[shaansmsm]

Mahalanobis is simply a genius