Sorry Joan, u may try this "blindness" routine on some poor lost jewish soul when u missionize them, but not me. The unfortunate fact is that u r full of contradictions, misquotations, verses out of context etc.
Do u realize that EVERY SINGLE MESSIANIC PROPHECY u claim jesus fulfilled is 1 of the above? And u say I am blinded?! There's no SINGLE MESSIANIC PROPHECY fulfilled by jesus that can't be claimed by any Jew living in the 1st century (your virgin birth myth doesn't count).
You are dead wrong truthjusticeandpeace, you are indeed blind according to Isaiah 6:9-10 and 2 Corinthians 3:14. Yeshua fulfilled more than 30 prophecies and I'm not full of contradictions, misquotations, verses out of context, etc. I know the prophecies and their deeper, symbolic and significant meaning.
@susser=You know what it's so unfortunate that you don't realize the truth that the Messiah Yeshua is the Lord God of Israel manifested in the flesh. When you stand in front of God Almighty of Judgment Day you will realize that He the Lord God of Israel is Yeshua the Jewish Messiah.
what is even more sadder is a grown woman taking verses OUT OF CONTEXT & interpreting them in an idolatrous fashion, the likes of which jesus would've vomited on u had he realized that he was the start of a pagan theology unknown to the Prophets of Israel.
I sleep well at nights knowing that my belief is the same as Adam, Moses & Isaiah. You go to sleep with man-god.
(continued) He will tell you everything about Himself and what He did and how he fulfilled the prophecies, and you will be surely and profoundly be ashamed of your rejection and denial of Him. You find that out when you get there.
Wrong, truthjusticeandpeace. Jews for Jesus will not burn in hell, they will be blessed by the Lord for bringing and preaching the gospel to the nation of Israel as commanded in the Brit Chadasha. The Messiah will judge you in the end, He will seperate those who have responded to Him for salvation from those who have rejected Him.
just 30? in other books he fulfilled over 100! Make up your mind, does he fulfill less and less prophecies as time goes by? "my kingdom is at hand....
Messiantics are BIG TIME HYPOCRITES! They follow the traditions of the Rabbi's (which personally I believe to be true and ordained by God) & at the same time reject the most FUNDAMENTAL teaching of Jewish tradition which all Jews -Rabbi's & plain folks- ALWAYS BELIEVED! The belief in a INVISIBLE NON-PHYSICAL GOD!
They r TOTAL hypocrites for following the Rabbi's customs of sabbath candles+ yameka's (where in the Bible is that?) & just about anything that "looks" Jewish is really Rabbinic.
@truthjusticeandpeace=You are totally disillusioned about the Messianic Jews. Jews in the 1st century A.D. believed that Yeshua is the Messiah and they did not renounce nor give up their Jewish heritage, customs and traditions nor their people. The Bible says there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the Messiah Yeshua (see 1 Timothy 2:5). There is no hypocrisy involved among the Messianic Jews, yarmulkas and Shabbat candles are just Jewish religious paraphernalias.
the early messianic jews also did NOT believe in jesus as GOD, THAT'S PAGANISM & u r either refusing to believe this point or lying to everyone on Youtube because u fell in love with a mythical man-god who is a false god.
@truthjusticeandpeace=You are completely paranoid and totally blind, it is not paganism to believe that the Messiah Yeshua (JESUS) is the Son of God and that He and the Father are one and the same. He is neither a false god nor a mythical god incarnate. You go and read Luke 24:36-47, John 10:30, Matthew 28:8-20, Philippians 2:9-11, and Revelation 22:16. And I'm not lying to anyone on YouTube.
Jesus never believed he's god's son in the flesh nor would any normal human being (maybe a disillusioned jewish kid who lived with his mom till age 30, didn't have a job except to go out with a long bath robe in the street).
@susser=You are completely mistaken, Yeshua says in John 10:30 "I and the Father are one as foretold in Isaiah 9:6 proving that God the Son is God the Father in the flesh, one and the same. He is the greatest Jew who ever lived and an honor to the Jewish people.
sorry joan, scaring me by telling me I'm going to hell is not going to work. U r just following in the footsteps of the Dominican Inquisitors who in years gone by used the rack and boiling oil instead of your kind words.
The only thing I care for is God & making my Jewish Biblical God into a pagan demi-god like Zeus (rymes with jesus too in spanish) is simply UN Biblical & pure paganism.
Early Xtian-Messianic jesus followers DID'NT Believe jesus was god just a (false) messiah.
@judaicaman007=No, Im not following the footsteps of the Dominican Inquisitors. No one is making the God of Israel into a demi-god like Zeus. It is actually Biblical and prophetic that God will incarnate and manifest himself in the flesh. You go and read Jeremiah 23:5-6, Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6, Isaiah 9:7, Micah 5:2, and Proverbs 30:4. HaShem the Lord God of Israel and Yeshua the Jewish Messiah are one and the same.
u can quote me ALL the verses in the Bible which IMPLY a physical manifestation of God when darling, u have to admit that no Jew, Prophet or Sage (including Jesus & his early followers) ever believed in this PAGAN concept. ALL scholars, Christian, Jewish & Moslem & even atheists & agnostics admit this truth.
But a simple question which U seem to stay away from despite the fact that I've asked it MANY times, but you seem to either ignore me or have a MENTAL BLOCK (2 B CONTINUED)
@truthjusticeandpeace=Believing that the Messiah will be God incarnate is not a pagan concept at all, it is actually prophetic. Whoever acknowledges that the Messiah Yeshua (JESUS) is God manifested in the flesh has the spirit of truth which is from God, and whoever denies this does not have the spirit of truth from God but has the spirit of the Anti-Christ (see 1 John 4:1-3).
(continued) And by the way when you stand infront of God Almighty on Judgement Day you will realize that he HaShem the Lord God of Israel is Yeshua the Jewish Messiah, and you will surely be ashamed of your rejection and denial of him. You find that out when you get there. You are blind like the rest of the other Orthodox and Hasidic Jews, Yeshua was not a false messiah at all, He is the one and only true and authentic Jewish Messiah.
Here's the question joan, THINK b4 u answer because YOUR ETERNAL LIFE DEPENDS ON IT!
Given ALL the verses in the Hebrew Bible which YOU INTERPRET to be a "clear" physical manifestation of the godhead, HOW IS IT POSSIBLE THAT NO JEWISH SECT AROSE FOR BELIEVING IN A INCARNATE VIRGIN BORN GOD? HOW'S IT POSSIBLE that ALL Jews from time immemorial would rather DIE than believe in such a pagan concept if it was SO CLEAR IN THE BIBLE as u say? (2 be continued)
@truthjusticeandpeace=Immanuel from Isaiah 7:14 means "God with us", it's a symbolic and prophetic name meaning that God will incarnate and manifest himself in the flesh and dwell among us all. Isaiah 9:6 clearly means that God the Son is God the Father in the flesh. Jeremiah 23:5-6 says His name shall be called "THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS" which is a name given to the Messiah contains the divine name YHWH, a clear indication that the Messiah is to be a divine being.
(continued) The young woman named Maryam (MARY) is eligable for marriage but she has to maintain her virginity before marriage according to the Law of Moses otherwise she would be stoned for adultery/fornication, therefore a virgin birth or supernatural birth is a possiblity, the Ruach HaKodesh rested upon her and the power of God has overshadowed her, Joseph did not have sexually relations with her before and after marriage and during the time she was pregnant.
And how is sit possible there are even in the greek NEW TESTAMENT verses which imply that jesus & God are 2 separate entities (why have u forsaken me...)?
Please THINK b4 u answer ALL of these questions. because till now, u have been parroting missionary answers which r easily refutable to anyone with half a brain & an open objective mind. Jews can NEVER believe vs the word of God which forbids in the belief of a man-god. It's pure PAGAN IDOLATRY, regardless of the verses u quote!
@truthjusticeandpeace=What does it say in Micah 5:2? The one who is to come out of Bethlehem in Judea will have an origin which is from everlasting (me yemei olamei from the days of eternity in Hebrew). Whose origins are from the days of eternity? Only God. Therefore this prophecy indicates the divine nature of the one to born in Bethlehem. The Messiah Yeshua was born in Bethlehem.
(continued) What does it say in Isaiah 9:6-7? How can someone be a son and The Everlasting Father at the same time? If he is a mortal reigning on David's throne how can he establish it with judgment and justice forever? Why is he called The Mighty God ? This verse cannot refer to the godly King Hezekiah because that does not make sense. The one spoken of being born as a male child has to be at the same time an eternal person. In fact he has to be God.
you mean to tell me u never heard a Jewish, logical, literal explanation for all these pagan inspired idea's of yours?
Are u interested in finding out the truth? Or do u wish to continue to believe in this paganized version of the Hebrew Bible?? Because b4 jesus came along the scene, we jews knew exactly what these verses mean. There was no "mystery" to them. No "blindness" which Isaiah "blinded" us with.
Is anything that I'm saying register in your brain or r u on a kamikaze mission?
@truthjusticeandpeace=The Hebrew Bible was not paganized and I'm not inspired by any kind of pagan ideas. And you think there is no blindness which Isaiah blinded you with? You are mistaken because the truth is you're blind. You want proof? Read Isaiah 6:9-10.
(continued) Read what says in Proverbs 30:4. The expected answer to all these questions is God. But the final question is "What is His name and what is His Son's name, if thou canst tell?", this is a good question. The encounters between God and people in the Jewish Bible referred to here imply that God appeared in some recognisable form to humans. Quite often he appeared as a man. Sometimes he is called the Angel of the Lord, sometimes not.
(continued) Often the Hebrew word used in these scriptures contains the divine name YHWH which Judaism considers to be so holy that it cannot even be pronounced. Significant prophecies about the coming Messiah imply that he will have a divine nature, not merely a human nature. And if you think that believing the Messiah will be God incarnate is a pure pagan idolatry you are completely mistaken, even though you're a Jew.
Again Joan, u seem to have a mental block about the God of Israel, the "Invisible" God as Paul (who?) said in the Greek NT.
U can quote to me all the so called "incarnate" verses in the Hebrew Bible, but everyone in the Christian world agrees that this concept was UNHEARD OF IN JUDAISM OF THE FIRST CENTURY! Get it?
So make the logical conclusion dear, if so many verses agree to your paganism, why didn't Moses, Jeremiah,Isaiah,King David... pass on this concept?
@truthjusticeandpeace=God is not consigned or limited to the flesh, He can manifest Himself in whatever form He pleases to fulfill His task. Yeshua of Nazareth was and is the form of flesh that God was manifest in, He came speaking the Torah Word of God with absolute authority and made no mistake in regards to all God's commands. Only God Himself could act this way. and for this reason people accept Yeshua as God in the flesh.
pure PAGANISM! The Macabees would've killed you for saying something like this. This is what they were fighting for! Ancient Greek polytheism also believed in man-gods & virgin births & blood atonement. All taken from pagan myths which one day chrstians like u will come to the Jews and say, "let us follow you, for we have heard that God is with YOU" (ie the Jewish people).
@truthjusticeandpeace=You are completely paranoid, there is no pure paganism involved in Messianic Judaism. Do the Maccabees know the messianic prophecies? Gentile Christians and Messianic Jews did not take anything from pagan myths or whatsoever. You're not gonna see the Lord Yeshua HaMashiach again coming and returning until you say "Baruch Haba B'Shem Adonai-Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord". Read Matthew 23:37-39 and Luke 13:34-35.
(continued) Yeshua HaMashiach says in John 14:6 "I am the truth, the way, and the life, no one comes to the Father but by me." Genesis 1:26, Genesis 3:15, Genesis 12:3, and Isaiah 53 are messianic prophecies.
It appears by all the prophetic fulfillments of the "man of sin" in Daniel alone-"changing times and laws" - removal of the 2nd commandment and changing the day for the 4th commandment, "no desire for women" - evident with a multitude of priestly pedeophilia and overt homosexuality, "making war with the saints"- crusades, inquisitions, holocaust, that the mark of the beast could be as simple as the ash on your forehead in the one world religion to come. FYI-Yeshua was NOT Catholic. He was Jewish
Scripture states Yeshua was crucified on Passover, burried on the Feast of Unleavened Bread, and was resurrected on First Fruits. Luke Ch1 tracks the timing of Miriam's conception to be in December/January - thereby leading to the birth of Yeshua on the Feast of Tabernacles. The Jewish people have been the only ones in history to properly celebrate the life of our Messiah. Don't you think the Christians should be the one's to convert now??
You are still dead wrong as ever judaicaman007, for your information the Catholics did not made Yeshua (JESUS) into a god at all. He revealed to the Jewish people during the 1st century A.D. and opened their eyes and understand what the scriptures says that He is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that he is God manisted in the flesh.
there was NEVER a concept of a incarnate God in Judaism OR the Hebrew Scriptures b4 the advent of christianity.
The pagan church in the FOURTH CENTURY! voted on it (meaning there were differences of opinion till then dear). THEY WERe ALL FROM PAGAN BACKGROUNDS which made it sooooooo easy to vote on a pagan god, something sooooooo abhorrant in Judaism that it makes any jew die for this belief throughout history! YUK!
@judaicaman007=Sorry but you are still dead wrong. For your information, the Roman Catholic Church in the 4th century did not vote on a pagan god. It is written in the Hebrew Scriptures and it has a very deeper meaning that the Messiah will be God incarnate (see Jeremiah 23:5-6, Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6, Micah 5:2, and Proverbs 30:4) as it is foretold but that will not annul His divinity.
Messianic Jews keep the Sabbath, circumcise their infant sons, celebrate all the Jewish holidays and Biblical feasts, keep kosher and use the talith and tefilin. They don't celebrate Christian holidays which are borrowed from paganism such as Christmas, Easter and Lent and they don't go and worship on Sunday like how regular Christians do.
You are still dead wrong juaicaman007, Messianic Jews are not pagan in nature and that proves how blind and disillusioned you really are. What does it say in Jeremiah 23:5-6, Isaiah 7:14 and Isaiah 9:6? It proves that the Messiah will be divine in nature.
all of these customs are RABBINIC-PHARISAIC in nature. Any person who reads the Bible has NO IDEA HOW to celebrate any of these holidays or customs.
These messianic christians r fakers, liars, and decieve themselves and others into believing they are celebrating BIBLICAL Holidays when hey r really proclaiming that they observe Rabbinic traditioins. Hypocrites! That's another word we can all call them and you too joan when u now that it's true.
@judaicaman007=You are dead wrong in everything you say, and Messianic Jews are not hypocrites and that's how blind you really are. They celebrate all the Jewish holidays and Biblical feasts and keep the Sabbath and know how to, they don't go and worship on Sunday and celebrate Christmas, Easter and Lent like how Gentile Christians do. And there is no mention of Christmas, Easter and Lent in the Brit Chadasha, only Jewish holidays and Biblical feasts.
Messianic Judaism is not Christianity in disguise. It is a legitimate branch of Judaism, a fulfillment of Biblical Judaism and the Torah and it's actually 2000 years old dating back to the time of the promised Messiah of Israel Yeshua of Nazareth. Only Roman Catholicism is Christianity, including Protestantism and Eastern Orthodoxy.
Messiantic "judaism" does not exist as a part of judaism. It was started about 100 yrs ago by the American Board Of Missions to Jews, forerunner & father org of J4J.
They both convert jews to christianity & let them observe RABBINIC commandments such as sabbat candles, Kippot, Seder's etc all in the name of the pagan god jesus.
Jesus never believed he was god, nor did the early jewih disciples. All was voted by catholics in 4 cent
You are 100% dead wrong judaicaman007, I'm definitely and absolutely not lying at all and that proves your blindness. Messianic Judaism exists as a part oif Judaism, it originated by the 1st century A.D. and the earliest followers, believers and disciples were all Jews and the earliest congregation were entirely Jewish. The Messiah Yeshua (JESUS) is the Lord God of Israel manifested in the flesh. You deny and reject the gospels, one day the Messiah will judge you in the end.
anyone can claim to be a part of judaism, BUT the proof is in your beliefs.
yes, the eraly jewish non-pagan believers in jesus believed him to be a MESSIAH not a GOD.
Once the pagans became a majority with the help of Paul, u could no longer call it a part of judaism, it's a seperate religion, with a DIFFERENT GOD!
All your proofs for a carnate god from Scriptures are irrelevant since Judaism (and early Xtianity NEVER believed jesus as god no matter how many twisted verses u bring).
@judaicaman007=That's where you are mistaken. Belief in the Messiah Yeshua (JESUS) the Son of God is originally a sect of Judaism. You think that the earliest Messianic Jews were worshiping a different God? The answer is no.
messianic judaism is fake christianity. You can't have both joan. All of the messiantic crap, yarmulka's, torah scrolls, passover seder's, sabbath candles... ARE ALL RABBINIC. These people are hypocrites. None of these r mentioned in the Bible ALL r Rabbinic in origin.
Gimme a break with your LIES joan!
Any honest christian, protestant or catholic would agree that u r a con artist by promoting a pseudo-rabbinic christianity. FAKES!
@judaicaman007=Messianic Judaism is a legitimate branch of Judaism, only Roman Catholicism is Christianity as well as Protestantism and Eastern Orthodoxy. Torah scrolls, Passover Seders, Shabbat candles, and yarmulkas are all Jewish customs, traditions and items, you can't call them rabbinic, the term rabbinic refers to the teachings and doctrines of the rabbis.
@truthjusticeandpeace=Messianic Jews are not hypocrites, they rely on Biblical standards upon the teachings of the Tanakh and the Brit Chadasha, they celebrate all the Jewish holidays and Biblical feasts and keep the Sabbath and recite the Shema and Aaronic Benediction. The Jewish holidays and Biblical feasts and the Sabbath don't only have a historical significance but also a prophetic and messianic significance.
And you r a HYPOCRITE for defending them since u know very well that the entire Jewish calendar is based upon JEWISH RABBINIC TRADITION! Ergo, their religion is based on Rabbinic Judaism whose MAIN BELIEF IN GOD they REJECT! Does this make sense to you as a normal human thinking being??
If so, u got a serious mental problem for not seeing the forest for the trees.
@truthjusticeandpeace=You are 100% dead wrong, I'm not a hyprocrite. The Jewish calendar is based in the Bible. Messianic Jews rely totally on the scriptures, their faith is the Judaism of the Bible (Biblical Judaism) and is centered around the Messiah and the worldwide salvation He brings.
u obviously know nothing about the Jewish calendar. Research dear, then you'll know that Jews today follow a RABBINIC calendar, not a "biblical" calendar which only existed in Temple times & even then ordained by the RABBI'S. These messianics and YOU are hypocrites for claiming otherwise.
this guy is saying the truth. The Hebrew calendar today is a mixture of Biblical & rabbinic tradition (which is also BBLICAL if u believe that the Rabbi's seat in the seat of Moses, as all orthodox jews believe).
You are simply not being real joan, u have a warped sense of history, biblical traditions, and a big fat mouth that does not think b4 it talks.
@susser=Messianic Jews follow Jewish customs and traditions and they use the Hebrew calendar, it is the same thing that the earliest Messianic Jews did in the 1st century A.D., they remained Jews. They only rely on Biblical standards upon the teachings of the Tanakh and Brit Chadsha, not rabbinic traditions which are man made doctrines such as Talmudic teachings.
@susser=You are a fool, Moses is only a prophet but Yeshua HaMashiach is greater than him. Rabbinic tradition is not that Biblical, it is only recorded in the Talmud. You are no better than the amazing Messianic Jew Aviad Cohen.
u r pretty one sided, pig headed (no pun intended) and simply very ignorant.
The Talmud is a repository of the Oral explanation of the written Biblical Torah (law).
It contains rabbinic as well as Biblical traditions not found in the Biblical text. Any christian scholar would agree with that statement, as did jesus who was taught under these very rabbi's mentioned in the talmud.
He even said that we should follow what they taught! Their teachings about God was monotheistic,yours is pagan!
You are still dead wrong juadicaman007, Christianity and Messianic Judaism are not pagan in nature at all. They both teach that there is just one God-the creator of the universe. The truth about the Talmud is that it is a mixture of truth and error, and neglect the study of the Bible.
sorry joan baby, messiantics are pure pagans. If they were transported to the 1st century of the common error, they would've been ostracized by jewish society INCLUDING BY JESUS who never believed he was god!
ONLY pagans who believed in Zeus,Hercules,Neptune & the rest of the gang believed in man-gods who slept with other men's wives. Virgin birth was a PAGAN idea never even heard of in Judaism of ANY period in history. YOU ARE A PAGAN & SO R YOUR MESSIANIC FRIENDS.
@judaicaman007=You are still dead wrong and you will always be dead wrong, regardless of what you say about the Messianic Jews. They are not pagans at all, they are fulfilled and completed Jews. Isaiah 9:6 is not a hoax, it is a 100% messianic prophecy, including Isaiah 7:14, Numbers 24:17, Jeremiah 23:5-6, Isaiah 53, Psalm 22, and Daniel 9:24-26. A virgin birth or supernatural birth is not a hoax either, it's valid and it's a fact because God made it happened.
(continued) They believe that Yeshua is the promised Messiah and that they don't have to go through the Sages or the Rabbis to know God. They have access to God because of the great atoning work of the Messiah Yeshua, who has fulfilled them as Jewish believers and therefore has fulfilled their Judaism (see Matthew 5:17).
lama lo livddok be ktuvim uliai hem tsodkim ????
reymondas 1 year ago
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debate Jewish rabbi vs Minister Christian PART 1
extazy17 2 years ago
Sorry Joan, u may try this "blindness" routine on some poor lost jewish soul when u missionize them, but not me. The unfortunate fact is that u r full of contradictions, misquotations, verses out of context etc.
Do u realize that EVERY SINGLE MESSIANIC PROPHECY u claim jesus fulfilled is 1 of the above? And u say I am blinded?! There's no SINGLE MESSIANIC PROPHECY fulfilled by jesus that can't be claimed by any Jew living in the 1st century (your virgin birth myth doesn't count).
truthjusticeandpeace 2 years ago 2
You are dead wrong truthjusticeandpeace, you are indeed blind according to Isaiah 6:9-10 and 2 Corinthians 3:14. Yeshua fulfilled more than 30 prophecies and I'm not full of contradictions, misquotations, verses out of context, etc. I know the prophecies and their deeper, symbolic and significant meaning.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
r u going batty on us joan?
susser 2 years ago
@susser=You know what it's so unfortunate that you don't realize the truth that the Messiah Yeshua is the Lord God of Israel manifested in the flesh. When you stand in front of God Almighty of Judgment Day you will realize that He the Lord God of Israel is Yeshua the Jewish Messiah.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
what is even more sadder is a grown woman taking verses OUT OF CONTEXT & interpreting them in an idolatrous fashion, the likes of which jesus would've vomited on u had he realized that he was the start of a pagan theology unknown to the Prophets of Israel.
I sleep well at nights knowing that my belief is the same as Adam, Moses & Isaiah. You go to sleep with man-god.
susser 2 years ago 2
Yeshua did not come to start a pagan theology, He came to fulfill the Torah and the teachings of the prophets (see Matthew 5:17).
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
(continued) He will tell you everything about Himself and what He did and how he fulfilled the prophecies, and you will be surely and profoundly be ashamed of your rejection and denial of Him. You find that out when you get there.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
@knightsofstjoan2004
notice the "YOU WILL BURN IN HELL" SELF RIGHTEOUS attitude this missionary has folks?
truthjusticeandpeace 2 years ago 3
Wrong, truthjusticeandpeace. Jews for Jesus will not burn in hell, they will be blessed by the Lord for bringing and preaching the gospel to the nation of Israel as commanded in the Brit Chadasha. The Messiah will judge you in the end, He will seperate those who have responded to Him for salvation from those who have rejected Him.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
just 30? in other books he fulfilled over 100! Make up your mind, does he fulfill less and less prophecies as time goes by? "my kingdom is at hand....
susser 2 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@susser=I did not say 30, I said more than 30.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
Messiantics are BIG TIME HYPOCRITES! They follow the traditions of the Rabbi's (which personally I believe to be true and ordained by God) & at the same time reject the most FUNDAMENTAL teaching of Jewish tradition which all Jews -Rabbi's & plain folks- ALWAYS BELIEVED! The belief in a INVISIBLE NON-PHYSICAL GOD!
They r TOTAL hypocrites for following the Rabbi's customs of sabbath candles+ yameka's (where in the Bible is that?) & just about anything that "looks" Jewish is really Rabbinic.
truthjusticeandpeace 2 years ago
@truthjusticeandpeace=You are totally disillusioned about the Messianic Jews. Jews in the 1st century A.D. believed that Yeshua is the Messiah and they did not renounce nor give up their Jewish heritage, customs and traditions nor their people. The Bible says there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the Messiah Yeshua (see 1 Timothy 2:5). There is no hypocrisy involved among the Messianic Jews, yarmulkas and Shabbat candles are just Jewish religious paraphernalias.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
@knightsofstjoan2004
the early messianic jews also did NOT believe in jesus as GOD, THAT'S PAGANISM & u r either refusing to believe this point or lying to everyone on Youtube because u fell in love with a mythical man-god who is a false god.
truthjusticeandpeace 2 years ago
@truthjusticeandpeace=You are completely paranoid and totally blind, it is not paganism to believe that the Messiah Yeshua (JESUS) is the Son of God and that He and the Father are one and the same. He is neither a false god nor a mythical god incarnate. You go and read Luke 24:36-47, John 10:30, Matthew 28:8-20, Philippians 2:9-11, and Revelation 22:16. And I'm not lying to anyone on YouTube.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
sorry joan, no brownie points for you.
All these concepts did not exist in the year 1.
Jesus never believed he's god's son in the flesh nor would any normal human being (maybe a disillusioned jewish kid who lived with his mom till age 30, didn't have a job except to go out with a long bath robe in the street).
susser 2 years ago
@susser=You are completely mistaken, Yeshua says in John 10:30 "I and the Father are one as foretold in Isaiah 9:6 proving that God the Son is God the Father in the flesh, one and the same. He is the greatest Jew who ever lived and an honor to the Jewish people.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
sorry joan, scaring me by telling me I'm going to hell is not going to work. U r just following in the footsteps of the Dominican Inquisitors who in years gone by used the rack and boiling oil instead of your kind words.
The only thing I care for is God & making my Jewish Biblical God into a pagan demi-god like Zeus (rymes with jesus too in spanish) is simply UN Biblical & pure paganism.
Early Xtian-Messianic jesus followers DID'NT Believe jesus was god just a (false) messiah.
judaicaman007 2 years ago
@judaicaman007=No, Im not following the footsteps of the Dominican Inquisitors. No one is making the God of Israel into a demi-god like Zeus. It is actually Biblical and prophetic that God will incarnate and manifest himself in the flesh. You go and read Jeremiah 23:5-6, Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6, Isaiah 9:7, Micah 5:2, and Proverbs 30:4. HaShem the Lord God of Israel and Yeshua the Jewish Messiah are one and the same.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
u can quote me ALL the verses in the Bible which IMPLY a physical manifestation of God when darling, u have to admit that no Jew, Prophet or Sage (including Jesus & his early followers) ever believed in this PAGAN concept. ALL scholars, Christian, Jewish & Moslem & even atheists & agnostics admit this truth.
But a simple question which U seem to stay away from despite the fact that I've asked it MANY times, but you seem to either ignore me or have a MENTAL BLOCK (2 B CONTINUED)
truthjusticeandpeace 2 years ago
@truthjusticeandpeace=Believing that the Messiah will be God incarnate is not a pagan concept at all, it is actually prophetic. Whoever acknowledges that the Messiah Yeshua (JESUS) is God manifested in the flesh has the spirit of truth which is from God, and whoever denies this does not have the spirit of truth from God but has the spirit of the Anti-Christ (see 1 John 4:1-3).
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
(continued) And by the way when you stand infront of God Almighty on Judgement Day you will realize that he HaShem the Lord God of Israel is Yeshua the Jewish Messiah, and you will surely be ashamed of your rejection and denial of him. You find that out when you get there. You are blind like the rest of the other Orthodox and Hasidic Jews, Yeshua was not a false messiah at all, He is the one and only true and authentic Jewish Messiah.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
Here's the question joan, THINK b4 u answer because YOUR ETERNAL LIFE DEPENDS ON IT!
Given ALL the verses in the Hebrew Bible which YOU INTERPRET to be a "clear" physical manifestation of the godhead, HOW IS IT POSSIBLE THAT NO JEWISH SECT AROSE FOR BELIEVING IN A INCARNATE VIRGIN BORN GOD? HOW'S IT POSSIBLE that ALL Jews from time immemorial would rather DIE than believe in such a pagan concept if it was SO CLEAR IN THE BIBLE as u say? (2 be continued)
truthjusticeandpeace 2 years ago
@truthjusticeandpeace=Immanuel from Isaiah 7:14 means "God with us", it's a symbolic and prophetic name meaning that God will incarnate and manifest himself in the flesh and dwell among us all. Isaiah 9:6 clearly means that God the Son is God the Father in the flesh. Jeremiah 23:5-6 says His name shall be called "THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS" which is a name given to the Messiah contains the divine name YHWH, a clear indication that the Messiah is to be a divine being.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
(continued) The young woman named Maryam (MARY) is eligable for marriage but she has to maintain her virginity before marriage according to the Law of Moses otherwise she would be stoned for adultery/fornication, therefore a virgin birth or supernatural birth is a possiblity, the Ruach HaKodesh rested upon her and the power of God has overshadowed her, Joseph did not have sexually relations with her before and after marriage and during the time she was pregnant.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
And how is sit possible there are even in the greek NEW TESTAMENT verses which imply that jesus & God are 2 separate entities (why have u forsaken me...)?
Please THINK b4 u answer ALL of these questions. because till now, u have been parroting missionary answers which r easily refutable to anyone with half a brain & an open objective mind. Jews can NEVER believe vs the word of God which forbids in the belief of a man-god. It's pure PAGAN IDOLATRY, regardless of the verses u quote!
truthjusticeandpeace 2 years ago
@truthjusticeandpeace=What does it say in Micah 5:2? The one who is to come out of Bethlehem in Judea will have an origin which is from everlasting (me yemei olamei from the days of eternity in Hebrew). Whose origins are from the days of eternity? Only God. Therefore this prophecy indicates the divine nature of the one to born in Bethlehem. The Messiah Yeshua was born in Bethlehem.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
(continued) What does it say in Isaiah 9:6-7? How can someone be a son and The Everlasting Father at the same time? If he is a mortal reigning on David's throne how can he establish it with judgment and justice forever? Why is he called The Mighty God ? This verse cannot refer to the godly King Hezekiah because that does not make sense. The one spoken of being born as a male child has to be at the same time an eternal person. In fact he has to be God.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
you mean to tell me u never heard a Jewish, logical, literal explanation for all these pagan inspired idea's of yours?
Are u interested in finding out the truth? Or do u wish to continue to believe in this paganized version of the Hebrew Bible?? Because b4 jesus came along the scene, we jews knew exactly what these verses mean. There was no "mystery" to them. No "blindness" which Isaiah "blinded" us with.
Is anything that I'm saying register in your brain or r u on a kamikaze mission?
truthjusticeandpeace 2 years ago
@truthjusticeandpeace=The Hebrew Bible was not paganized and I'm not inspired by any kind of pagan ideas. And you think there is no blindness which Isaiah blinded you with? You are mistaken because the truth is you're blind. You want proof? Read Isaiah 6:9-10.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
(continued) Read what says in Proverbs 30:4. The expected answer to all these questions is God. But the final question is "What is His name and what is His Son's name, if thou canst tell?", this is a good question. The encounters between God and people in the Jewish Bible referred to here imply that God appeared in some recognisable form to humans. Quite often he appeared as a man. Sometimes he is called the Angel of the Lord, sometimes not.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
(continued) Often the Hebrew word used in these scriptures contains the divine name YHWH which Judaism considers to be so holy that it cannot even be pronounced. Significant prophecies about the coming Messiah imply that he will have a divine nature, not merely a human nature. And if you think that believing the Messiah will be God incarnate is a pure pagan idolatry you are completely mistaken, even though you're a Jew.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
@knightsofstjoan2004
Again Joan, u seem to have a mental block about the God of Israel, the "Invisible" God as Paul (who?) said in the Greek NT.
U can quote to me all the so called "incarnate" verses in the Hebrew Bible, but everyone in the Christian world agrees that this concept was UNHEARD OF IN JUDAISM OF THE FIRST CENTURY! Get it?
So make the logical conclusion dear, if so many verses agree to your paganism, why didn't Moses, Jeremiah,Isaiah,King David... pass on this concept?
truthjusticeandpeace 2 years ago
@truthjusticeandpeace=God is not consigned or limited to the flesh, He can manifest Himself in whatever form He pleases to fulfill His task. Yeshua of Nazareth was and is the form of flesh that God was manifest in, He came speaking the Torah Word of God with absolute authority and made no mistake in regards to all God's commands. Only God Himself could act this way. and for this reason people accept Yeshua as God in the flesh.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
@knightsofstjoan2004
pure PAGANISM! The Macabees would've killed you for saying something like this. This is what they were fighting for! Ancient Greek polytheism also believed in man-gods & virgin births & blood atonement. All taken from pagan myths which one day chrstians like u will come to the Jews and say, "let us follow you, for we have heard that God is with YOU" (ie the Jewish people).
truthjusticeandpeace 2 years ago 2
@truthjusticeandpeace=You are completely paranoid, there is no pure paganism involved in Messianic Judaism. Do the Maccabees know the messianic prophecies? Gentile Christians and Messianic Jews did not take anything from pagan myths or whatsoever. You're not gonna see the Lord Yeshua HaMashiach again coming and returning until you say "Baruch Haba B'Shem Adonai-Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord". Read Matthew 23:37-39 and Luke 13:34-35.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
(continued) Yeshua HaMashiach says in John 14:6 "I am the truth, the way, and the life, no one comes to the Father but by me." Genesis 1:26, Genesis 3:15, Genesis 12:3, and Isaiah 53 are messianic prophecies.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
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Mr007jessejames 2 years ago
No Jews 4 Jesus are a trojan horse meant to destroy jewish identity and continue what the crudades and spanish inquisition did not.
enigmaUnknown 2 years ago 3
It appears by all the prophetic fulfillments of the "man of sin" in Daniel alone-"changing times and laws" - removal of the 2nd commandment and changing the day for the 4th commandment, "no desire for women" - evident with a multitude of priestly pedeophilia and overt homosexuality, "making war with the saints"- crusades, inquisitions, holocaust, that the mark of the beast could be as simple as the ash on your forehead in the one world religion to come. FYI-Yeshua was NOT Catholic. He was Jewish
kbkw1970 2 years ago
Scripture states Yeshua was crucified on Passover, burried on the Feast of Unleavened Bread, and was resurrected on First Fruits. Luke Ch1 tracks the timing of Miriam's conception to be in December/January - thereby leading to the birth of Yeshua on the Feast of Tabernacles. The Jewish people have been the only ones in history to properly celebrate the life of our Messiah. Don't you think the Christians should be the one's to convert now??
kbkw1970 2 years ago
@kbkw1970
for your info catholics made him into a god
judaicaman007 2 years ago
You are still dead wrong as ever judaicaman007, for your information the Catholics did not made Yeshua (JESUS) into a god at all. He revealed to the Jewish people during the 1st century A.D. and opened their eyes and understand what the scriptures says that He is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that he is God manisted in the flesh.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
there was NEVER a concept of a incarnate God in Judaism OR the Hebrew Scriptures b4 the advent of christianity.
The pagan church in the FOURTH CENTURY! voted on it (meaning there were differences of opinion till then dear). THEY WERe ALL FROM PAGAN BACKGROUNDS which made it sooooooo easy to vote on a pagan god, something sooooooo abhorrant in Judaism that it makes any jew die for this belief throughout history! YUK!
judaicaman007 2 years ago
@judaicaman007=Sorry but you are still dead wrong. For your information, the Roman Catholic Church in the 4th century did not vote on a pagan god. It is written in the Hebrew Scriptures and it has a very deeper meaning that the Messiah will be God incarnate (see Jeremiah 23:5-6, Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6, Micah 5:2, and Proverbs 30:4) as it is foretold but that will not annul His divinity.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
Messianic Jews keep the Sabbath, circumcise their infant sons, celebrate all the Jewish holidays and Biblical feasts, keep kosher and use the talith and tefilin. They don't celebrate Christian holidays which are borrowed from paganism such as Christmas, Easter and Lent and they don't go and worship on Sunday like how regular Christians do.
knightsofstjoan2004 3 years ago
@knightsofstjoan2004
and they believe in a pagan concept man god just like the catholics and protestants, woopeeeee!
judaicaman007 2 years ago
You are still dead wrong juaicaman007, Messianic Jews are not pagan in nature and that proves how blind and disillusioned you really are. What does it say in Jeremiah 23:5-6, Isaiah 7:14 and Isaiah 9:6? It proves that the Messiah will be divine in nature.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
@knightsofstjoan2004
all of these customs are RABBINIC-PHARISAIC in nature. Any person who reads the Bible has NO IDEA HOW to celebrate any of these holidays or customs.
These messianic christians r fakers, liars, and decieve themselves and others into believing they are celebrating BIBLICAL Holidays when hey r really proclaiming that they observe Rabbinic traditioins. Hypocrites! That's another word we can all call them and you too joan when u now that it's true.
judaicaman007 2 years ago
@judaicaman007=You are dead wrong in everything you say, and Messianic Jews are not hypocrites and that's how blind you really are. They celebrate all the Jewish holidays and Biblical feasts and keep the Sabbath and know how to, they don't go and worship on Sunday and celebrate Christmas, Easter and Lent like how Gentile Christians do. And there is no mention of Christmas, Easter and Lent in the Brit Chadasha, only Jewish holidays and Biblical feasts.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
Messianic Judaism is not Christianity in disguise. It is a legitimate branch of Judaism, a fulfillment of Biblical Judaism and the Torah and it's actually 2000 years old dating back to the time of the promised Messiah of Israel Yeshua of Nazareth. Only Roman Catholicism is Christianity, including Protestantism and Eastern Orthodoxy.
knightsofstjoan2004 3 years ago
@knightsofstjoan2004
u know you're lying when u say that.
Messiantic "judaism" does not exist as a part of judaism. It was started about 100 yrs ago by the American Board Of Missions to Jews, forerunner & father org of J4J.
They both convert jews to christianity & let them observe RABBINIC commandments such as sabbat candles, Kippot, Seder's etc all in the name of the pagan god jesus.
Jesus never believed he was god, nor did the early jewih disciples. All was voted by catholics in 4 cent
judaicaman007 2 years ago
You are 100% dead wrong judaicaman007, I'm definitely and absolutely not lying at all and that proves your blindness. Messianic Judaism exists as a part oif Judaism, it originated by the 1st century A.D. and the earliest followers, believers and disciples were all Jews and the earliest congregation were entirely Jewish. The Messiah Yeshua (JESUS) is the Lord God of Israel manifested in the flesh. You deny and reject the gospels, one day the Messiah will judge you in the end.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
anyone can claim to be a part of judaism, BUT the proof is in your beliefs.
yes, the eraly jewish non-pagan believers in jesus believed him to be a MESSIAH not a GOD.
Once the pagans became a majority with the help of Paul, u could no longer call it a part of judaism, it's a seperate religion, with a DIFFERENT GOD!
All your proofs for a carnate god from Scriptures are irrelevant since Judaism (and early Xtianity NEVER believed jesus as god no matter how many twisted verses u bring).
judaicaman007 2 years ago
@judaicaman007=That's where you are mistaken. Belief in the Messiah Yeshua (JESUS) the Son of God is originally a sect of Judaism. You think that the earliest Messianic Jews were worshiping a different God? The answer is no.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
@knightsofstjoan2004
messianic judaism is fake christianity. You can't have both joan. All of the messiantic crap, yarmulka's, torah scrolls, passover seder's, sabbath candles... ARE ALL RABBINIC. These people are hypocrites. None of these r mentioned in the Bible ALL r Rabbinic in origin.
Gimme a break with your LIES joan!
Any honest christian, protestant or catholic would agree that u r a con artist by promoting a pseudo-rabbinic christianity. FAKES!
judaicaman007 2 years ago
@judaicaman007=Messianic Judaism is a legitimate branch of Judaism, only Roman Catholicism is Christianity as well as Protestantism and Eastern Orthodoxy. Torah scrolls, Passover Seders, Shabbat candles, and yarmulkas are all Jewish customs, traditions and items, you can't call them rabbinic, the term rabbinic refers to the teachings and doctrines of the rabbis.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
(continued) And by the way I'm not promoting a pseudo-rabbinic christianity at all. The gospel is for all, to the Jew first and then to the Gentile.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
sure reads to me of complaining that Xtians are pagans for celebrating easter, Xmas etc.
At least they are consistent in their paganism!
These messianic fake jewish christians want the salvation of jesus yet do the works of the Pharisees claiming that it's Biblical! Such HYPOCRITES!
truthjusticeandpeace 2 years ago
@truthjusticeandpeace=Messianic Jews are not hypocrites, they rely on Biblical standards upon the teachings of the Tanakh and the Brit Chadasha, they celebrate all the Jewish holidays and Biblical feasts and keep the Sabbath and recite the Shema and Aaronic Benediction. The Jewish holidays and Biblical feasts and the Sabbath don't only have a historical significance but also a prophetic and messianic significance.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
@knightsofstjoan2004
And you r a HYPOCRITE for defending them since u know very well that the entire Jewish calendar is based upon JEWISH RABBINIC TRADITION! Ergo, their religion is based on Rabbinic Judaism whose MAIN BELIEF IN GOD they REJECT! Does this make sense to you as a normal human thinking being??
If so, u got a serious mental problem for not seeing the forest for the trees.
truthjusticeandpeace 2 years ago
@truthjusticeandpeace=You are 100% dead wrong, I'm not a hyprocrite. The Jewish calendar is based in the Bible. Messianic Jews rely totally on the scriptures, their faith is the Judaism of the Bible (Biblical Judaism) and is centered around the Messiah and the worldwide salvation He brings.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
@knightsofstjoan2004
u obviously know nothing about the Jewish calendar. Research dear, then you'll know that Jews today follow a RABBINIC calendar, not a "biblical" calendar which only existed in Temple times & even then ordained by the RABBI'S. These messianics and YOU are hypocrites for claiming otherwise.
truthjusticeandpeace 2 years ago
I checked into this joan,
this guy is saying the truth. The Hebrew calendar today is a mixture of Biblical & rabbinic tradition (which is also BBLICAL if u believe that the Rabbi's seat in the seat of Moses, as all orthodox jews believe).
You are simply not being real joan, u have a warped sense of history, biblical traditions, and a big fat mouth that does not think b4 it talks.
susser 2 years ago 4
@susser=Messianic Jews follow Jewish customs and traditions and they use the Hebrew calendar, it is the same thing that the earliest Messianic Jews did in the 1st century A.D., they remained Jews. They only rely on Biblical standards upon the teachings of the Tanakh and Brit Chadsha, not rabbinic traditions which are man made doctrines such as Talmudic teachings.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
@susser=You are a fool, Moses is only a prophet but Yeshua HaMashiach is greater than him. Rabbinic tradition is not that Biblical, it is only recorded in the Talmud. You are no better than the amazing Messianic Jew Aviad Cohen.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
u r pretty one sided, pig headed (no pun intended) and simply very ignorant.
The Talmud is a repository of the Oral explanation of the written Biblical Torah (law).
It contains rabbinic as well as Biblical traditions not found in the Biblical text. Any christian scholar would agree with that statement, as did jesus who was taught under these very rabbi's mentioned in the talmud.
He even said that we should follow what they taught! Their teachings about God was monotheistic,yours is pagan!
judaicaman007 2 years ago
You are still dead wrong juadicaman007, Christianity and Messianic Judaism are not pagan in nature at all. They both teach that there is just one God-the creator of the universe. The truth about the Talmud is that it is a mixture of truth and error, and neglect the study of the Bible.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
@knightsofstjoan2004
sorry joan baby, messiantics are pure pagans. If they were transported to the 1st century of the common error, they would've been ostracized by jewish society INCLUDING BY JESUS who never believed he was god!
ONLY pagans who believed in Zeus,Hercules,Neptune & the rest of the gang believed in man-gods who slept with other men's wives. Virgin birth was a PAGAN idea never even heard of in Judaism of ANY period in history. YOU ARE A PAGAN & SO R YOUR MESSIANIC FRIENDS.
judaicaman007 2 years ago
@judaicaman007=You are still dead wrong and you will always be dead wrong, regardless of what you say about the Messianic Jews. They are not pagans at all, they are fulfilled and completed Jews. Isaiah 9:6 is not a hoax, it is a 100% messianic prophecy, including Isaiah 7:14, Numbers 24:17, Jeremiah 23:5-6, Isaiah 53, Psalm 22, and Daniel 9:24-26. A virgin birth or supernatural birth is not a hoax either, it's valid and it's a fact because God made it happened.
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago
(continued) They believe that Yeshua is the promised Messiah and that they don't have to go through the Sages or the Rabbis to know God. They have access to God because of the great atoning work of the Messiah Yeshua, who has fulfilled them as Jewish believers and therefore has fulfilled their Judaism (see Matthew 5:17).
knightsofstjoan2004 2 years ago