they paid their dues in the old days -by 1980 bands like Human League made and DM made it chique to play tape- and the technology made it easier - I like it all- tape and improv have their aesthetic- I have done both as well as a musician- sometimes you want to jam with the cosmic vibe and sometimes you want to be the lever that pulls the switch on the automatic digital performance
No puedo decir que no hayan usado cintas, yo pienso que la similitud en los temas es debido al fuerte uso de sequencers. TD invirtió fuertemente en estos dispositivos; recordemos que tenían los Moogs, los custom PPG, los Projekt Elektronik, los custom Grothe, los EEH, el Robotwerke y el Synthanorma, posteriormente empezaron a usar los PPG 340/380/Waveterms que controlaban casi todo. Aunque también está aquella famosa foto del trío con todo el equipo y se ven dos máquinas de cinta detrás. (sigue)
En este video como en los otros de la época (Polonia, London, Grecia, etc.) es posible ver que la música no está en sincronismo con lo que se ve; en esto quiero pensar que es debido a la posterior edición off-line (pobre en esa época). Miembros de TD han reconocido haber usado cintas, pero no sabemos hasta que punto usaron partes grabadas (un poco? todo?). Muchas gracias por el vídeo, a pesar de la calidad es único e histórico. Saludos.
Some of teh 80's concerts where quite good, Chris Franke's seqeuncer programming certainly came along very well, mostly on the poland concert, the track Horizon on that album is one of the best TD have produced. in terms of older work, the live at Rhiems Cathedral was one of the most atmospheric I have heard, this was partly due to the reverb of the great building itself. with all that improvisation during the 70's there is no wonder there are so many bootlegs out there unlike todays tunes :-(
By the way. Thanks for posting this ultra rare footage.
@TropicanaNorthEast Actually, my most favorite period of TD are the Schmoelling years. But I also love their work from the 70's. Their current work is absolutely fantastic.
I think TD started using backing tapes sincelate 1980. Its still a magician's secret, but my analysis (as a big TD fan) let me believe that most (but not all) sequences, all effects (except some noise) and some rhythmic chords (to give the band some hints to where are within a piece) are coming from a multitrack tape, where one track is reserved to sync CF's sequencer lights. Please know that I don't mind if they use backing tapes. Depeche Mode were doing that already during the same period.
@studio35d, I agree with you. 1980 seems to be the year of change. When you listen their bootlegs until 1980 all performances are very different, but in 1981 appears the "themes" structure, and all concerts sounds very similar.
About this specific TV broadcast, it could be possible that cameras post-edition hasn't been necessarily synchronized with the audio material. That could make too difficult to compare their hands movements with the music passages.
@kovalmoog I agree with you as well. When checking the footage again, it seems most likely that a lot of the video material does not belong to the audio material. It actually occurs with all of TD's video (even the recent concerts suffer from post editing (I can imagine it could be a pain having many camera angles recorded on different tapes and having to put them together in post production)
@studio35d I adore their Zeit to Ricochet period and also love much of their music right up to Poland (even the 1987 soundtracks have their moments) so I'm no hater :) But for me their live stuff from late 1980 onwards is a case of The Emperor's New Clothes... few people dare to be the boy who points out the emperor is naked :/ The music is IDENTICAL and for the most part they're largely just standing there pretending to do something as there's little correlation between what you see and hear.
@studio35d Check out any example of live Force Majeure from this period and you can hear it's a tape, even the modulation sweeps on the melody are identical. Check out Edgar's Sobornost video and you can tell he's just twiddling hoping no one notices. Don't get me wrong, it's still nice for an audience to see their heroes but I just wish I had a time machine to see TD around the time I was born (1974)... an older friend was at their Coventry Cathedral gig and said it was "fucking amazing".
@studio35d Jarre and even Vangelis have done it too. Admittedly much of this music will be too complex to try to reproduce live (at least safely). But there's still this sense of being cheated. You only have to look at a band like Radio Massacre International to see what can be done by three people entirely live with sequencers, no backing sources in sight :)
I agree, after the poland concert TD seemed to depend too much on having tapes back them onstage and just play a little over the top. also they are still like that now, but its not tapes which play most of the music back, its Laptop's, I have always been a massive fan of teh days when TD improvised, there concert at the Royal albert hall in 1976 is prime example.
That concert at the Royal Albert Hall is awesome, but my favorite one is Croydon October 23rd 1975 where "Ricochet Part II" was actually created. I really lost a few tears when I listened it for the first time :)
Great band. I am very sad that in Russia, know a few people about it.
TheKKVfmVVO 4 months ago
they paid their dues in the old days -by 1980 bands like Human League made and DM made it chique to play tape- and the technology made it easier - I like it all- tape and improv have their aesthetic- I have done both as well as a musician- sometimes you want to jam with the cosmic vibe and sometimes you want to be the lever that pulls the switch on the automatic digital performance
setaitransmedia 7 months ago
No puedo decir que no hayan usado cintas, yo pienso que la similitud en los temas es debido al fuerte uso de sequencers. TD invirtió fuertemente en estos dispositivos; recordemos que tenían los Moogs, los custom PPG, los Projekt Elektronik, los custom Grothe, los EEH, el Robotwerke y el Synthanorma, posteriormente empezaron a usar los PPG 340/380/Waveterms que controlaban casi todo. Aunque también está aquella famosa foto del trío con todo el equipo y se ven dos máquinas de cinta detrás. (sigue)
elgauchoandres 1 year ago
En este video como en los otros de la época (Polonia, London, Grecia, etc.) es posible ver que la música no está en sincronismo con lo que se ve; en esto quiero pensar que es debido a la posterior edición off-line (pobre en esa época). Miembros de TD han reconocido haber usado cintas, pero no sabemos hasta que punto usaron partes grabadas (un poco? todo?). Muchas gracias por el vídeo, a pesar de la calidad es único e histórico. Saludos.
elgauchoandres 1 year ago
I can't tell you how rare and great this is!!!! Thanks a million!!!!! a million!!!!
gwdone 1 year ago
Some of teh 80's concerts where quite good, Chris Franke's seqeuncer programming certainly came along very well, mostly on the poland concert, the track Horizon on that album is one of the best TD have produced. in terms of older work, the live at Rhiems Cathedral was one of the most atmospheric I have heard, this was partly due to the reverb of the great building itself. with all that improvisation during the 70's there is no wonder there are so many bootlegs out there unlike todays tunes :-(
TropicanaNorthEast 1 year ago
By the way. Thanks for posting this ultra rare footage.
@TropicanaNorthEast Actually, my most favorite period of TD are the Schmoelling years. But I also love their work from the 70's. Their current work is absolutely fantastic.
studio35d 1 year ago
@studio35d, you welcome... and thanks for your comments !
kovalmoog 1 year ago
I think TD started using backing tapes sincelate 1980. Its still a magician's secret, but my analysis (as a big TD fan) let me believe that most (but not all) sequences, all effects (except some noise) and some rhythmic chords (to give the band some hints to where are within a piece) are coming from a multitrack tape, where one track is reserved to sync CF's sequencer lights. Please know that I don't mind if they use backing tapes. Depeche Mode were doing that already during the same period.
studio35d 1 year ago
@studio35d, I agree with you. 1980 seems to be the year of change. When you listen their bootlegs until 1980 all performances are very different, but in 1981 appears the "themes" structure, and all concerts sounds very similar.
About this specific TV broadcast, it could be possible that cameras post-edition hasn't been necessarily synchronized with the audio material. That could make too difficult to compare their hands movements with the music passages.
kovalmoog 1 year ago
@kovalmoog I agree with you as well. When checking the footage again, it seems most likely that a lot of the video material does not belong to the audio material. It actually occurs with all of TD's video (even the recent concerts suffer from post editing (I can imagine it could be a pain having many camera angles recorded on different tapes and having to put them together in post production)
studio35d 1 year ago
@studio35d I adore their Zeit to Ricochet period and also love much of their music right up to Poland (even the 1987 soundtracks have their moments) so I'm no hater :) But for me their live stuff from late 1980 onwards is a case of The Emperor's New Clothes... few people dare to be the boy who points out the emperor is naked :/ The music is IDENTICAL and for the most part they're largely just standing there pretending to do something as there's little correlation between what you see and hear.
synoneiro 1 year ago
@studio35d Check out any example of live Force Majeure from this period and you can hear it's a tape, even the modulation sweeps on the melody are identical. Check out Edgar's Sobornost video and you can tell he's just twiddling hoping no one notices. Don't get me wrong, it's still nice for an audience to see their heroes but I just wish I had a time machine to see TD around the time I was born (1974)... an older friend was at their Coventry Cathedral gig and said it was "fucking amazing".
synoneiro 1 year ago
@studio35d Jarre and even Vangelis have done it too. Admittedly much of this music will be too complex to try to reproduce live (at least safely). But there's still this sense of being cheated. You only have to look at a band like Radio Massacre International to see what can be done by three people entirely live with sequencers, no backing sources in sight :)
synoneiro 1 year ago
I agree, after the poland concert TD seemed to depend too much on having tapes back them onstage and just play a little over the top. also they are still like that now, but its not tapes which play most of the music back, its Laptop's, I have always been a massive fan of teh days when TD improvised, there concert at the Royal albert hall in 1976 is prime example.
TropicanaNorthEast 1 year ago
That concert at the Royal Albert Hall is awesome, but my favorite one is Croydon October 23rd 1975 where "Ricochet Part II" was actually created. I really lost a few tears when I listened it for the first time :)
Thanks for your comment.
kovalmoog 1 year ago