Ayn Rand Phil Donahue Interview Part 5 of 5

[Jacob2Israel]

Ayn Rand, if you were still alive i'd love to marry you, with all your crooked teeth and wrinkles.

[btorrres18]

I think I would ask her the question below if I were to be on that show. :( I have a lot of questions for her. I wish she was a alive.

[btorrres18]

Hopefully someone with more knowledge than me on Objectivsm can answer this question. Based on the concept of love on objectivism. Can a reasonable emotion of love override the whole philosophy of objectivism? and Where do you draw the line? Thanks to whoever answers.

[Jacob2Israel]

@btorrres18 Objectivism is itself the reasonable emotion of love. Objectivism is when your brain tells your heart what is good, not when your brain is subject to the whims of the heart. A reasonable emotion of love is itself objectivism! The only way to overcome objectivism is to make an excuse, give up, and eat the cake. Objectivism is to love doing the right thing, because the right thing is moral, and to be truly moral is to be logical.

[btorrres18]

@Jacob2Israel I think you are wrong or maybe I couldn't understand your answer. I may not know objectivism that well enough but I think love is just a part of what objectivism means. I think the reasonable emotion of your happiness is what Objectivism is all about, and love is just one part of it. However, I'm confused with this because if one love's someone reasonably and unconditionally, can that prompt one to become irrational? So, where do you draw the line in the concept of love. THANKS!

[btorrres18]

@Jacob2Israel Sorry, I think I just answered my own question. :)

[benthejrporter]

When she talks about "Charlie's Angels" and then states that she prefers Aristotle to Plato that sounds odd. "Charlie's Angels" is a bit of a Platonic noble myth, as she seems to understand.

[ptownpsjdlc]

Never listened to a person I agreed with and disagreed with so much in my life!

[Pvic]

Just think if we actually spent the same amount of money on gifted children then what we waste on retards. Should we invest in future scientists, teachers, business leaders, philosophers, or mental defects who might become wallmart greeters if they're lucky?

[diogotomediogo]

thanks for the interview, first time i see Phil Donahue owning her guest :D and Ayn was mad at that girl haha...

A pity to see Ayn so nacionalistic and rejecting any moral obligation towards the poor

[WarriorOfWriters]

@diogotomediogo Nobody is responsible for that; if your doctrine informed morality teaches you to care for those you have no responsibility to then you go right ahead and give them the shirt off your back, keep your altruistic morality out of government and leave my hard earned money alone.

[diogotomediogo]

@WarriorOfWriters fuck you, and your money too

[setsallset]

@diogotomediogo he's got a point dude. It's not his fault you or anyone is poor. So why is it his responsibility to help the poor? Greed is a slanderous word for success.

[diogotomediogo]

@setsallset it's our responsability to help other people because, as you say, it's not their fault they are poor.

Sure, you can answer the problem with private charity. But the truth is, 27 000 children die every day from preventable poverty related causes, and 50% of the human population lives on less than $1 per day. Great job so far, donators. We're really heading into the kind of society we can be proud of!

[setsallset]

@diogotomediogo I did not say that. I said it's not HIS fault. HIM being the person you're mad at. If I were to rephrase it. It's not MY fault YOU are poor so why do I have to help? I can help you if I want, out of my own free will, but I should not be forced to help via taxation or otherwise. Lots of people die from aligators, hippos, shark attacks, and other means. If you want to help the poor, give them(not literally) sound money and cut gov intervention.

[diogotomediogo]

@setsallset read my reply again. you dodged the fundamental issue. How in the world are any of those 27 000 children who are going to die today to blame for their poverty? I'd be ok if enough people helped them by donating money to, say, unicef, but it does not happen. And in this case, when you know you can save lives with a few $s, I think the small loss of freedom (you being forced to pay a tax, let's say) is justifiable for the value of humanity, morality and equality!

[setsallset]

@diogotomediogo i didn't dodge your issue. If it seemed that way, let me clarify. You are standing on the moral ground right? Okay, morally, if you FORCE me via taxation to help some kids, that is theft. What is the difference between $1 and $100? A slippery slope. You may be willing to lose YOUR small freedom but you do not have a right to impose your ideas FORCEFULLY on others. Your altruistic views are dangerous and you can keep it to yourself. Don't force it onto others.

[diogotomediogo]

@setsallset you are like a child. "It's my money!!! You cant take it away from me!!" When you mature, perhaps we can discuss this properly. My example was a case where you can show a big gain in justice, equality and so on for only a small loss of freedom. Freedom is perhaps the most important value, but not the only one people care about.

Justice (law) is also coercive, do you oppose it?

You know we have a responsability to care for one another. If not you are a monster and this talk is over.

[setsallset]

@diogotomediogo You call me a child yet if I don't agree with you, "this talk is over?" It doesn't matter how big or small the gains are. If you stand on the moral ground, then you are condoning THEFT. You are very free to DONATE your own money to any charity of your choice, but you cannot take the moral ground and use FORCE to take my money and give it to someone else. Poor or not. I never said anything about coercion and my viewpoint is about anti-theft(LAW).

[setsallset]

@diogotomediogo You are mincing words. Taking care of the poor can be done in better ways that charity and the "responsibility" can only be taken by choice, not force. Love is a very positive thing but you cannot force someone to love you. That also has to be done voluntarily.

[diogotomediogo]

@setsallset Im not talking about love, asshole. You rather keep your absolute freedom than to save lives, i hope you are proud of yourself. Thank god you are taxed, you monster

[setsallset]

@diogotomediogo read my reply again. You dodged the fundamental issue. I'm relating love with charity. Both very positive things but neither should be force upon another. Why are you calling me a monster? Just because I have a different opinion than you? You need to relax. Just because I don't want to give my hard earned money to help the poor doesn't make me a monster. You need to get off your high horse. You're not better than anyone.

[Amaroq64]

@setsallset "You need to get off your high horse. You're not better than anyone."

In that statement, you've stumbled upon something that I recently discovered for myself about these people. They like to posture morally, and act like they're better than us, for the things that make them inferior to us. Like the way he made you out as an immature child for wanting to keep your money. As if wanting something for yourself is immature.

[setsallset]

@Amaroq64 You're completely right. I use to be cynical of "rich" people but I've come to realize that greed is just a slanderous word for success. If you make your money fairly, you should have a right to keep all your money. I do believe in generosity but I don't believe in forcing people be donate. This force leads to theft, which is in itself, immoral.

[Amaroq64]

@setsallset I used to be too. Then I was kind of shocked one day when someone said to me, "My family is wealthy. And they didn't steal their money. They earned it honestly with hard work." I had never considered that possibility before. I'd just been following the ideas I absorbed from the world around me: That it's unfair that rich people are rich. Somehow.

Now I'm an Objectivist, hehe.

[Amaroq64]

@setsallset

Children who want something for themselves are being virtuous in desiring the things that make them happy. But there are always tricks, equivocations, package-deals hidden in the statements these people make. Why did he point to a child wanting something for himself rather than an adult wanting something for himself? Because children wanting something for themselves are associated with temper tantrums. IE, emotionalism. Every time they posture like this, look for the package-deals.

[PrecisePuncher]

I think the people who reject Rand's theory are insecure and immoral. It's as if they don't believe they can fend for themselves and/or have no faith in people's willingness to help each other because ultimately they will realize how much they need one another. And they probably think that because they themselves are unwilling to realize how much we can benefit from one another, even if it's just a realization of our own selfishness.

[slangshotstudios]

I'm totally siding with her here. It seems like people don't admire others who hold onto their beliefs and opinions with the stamp of a foot. In society, it should be perfectly normal, and even encouraged, for every individual person to have his own opinions on a subject, without having to compromise with others' opinions. Compromise is one of the purest forms of evil on the planet, and no progress or true movement is made through compromise.

[dedbusted]

I've watched this many times--does Donahue say (in response to her statement of what a dictator is), "Yeah, whatever" at 1:37?

[newdanart]

@dedbusted I believe he says "yeah, what is it?"

[dedbusted]

@newdanart Thanks. You are correct.

[stevemcgee99]

I think her point about 'honor' is totally misunderstood in this argument.

[danrog1000]

Ayn Rand is an intellectual giant eating these pathetic robots for lunch.

[meedily]

@danrog1000 I agree. On her worst days she still made most other "intellectuals" look like blithering idiots. She was extremely sharp and very quick-witted.

[danrog1000]

@bduhe219: Empathy and feelings produce actions void of reason.

[bduhe219]

i was never a fan of ms rand, and my opinion has not changed. she was a most fascintaing person. although i disagree with 99% of her opinions. she was self-centered, unempathetic and verged on aggroance and contempt for all humans who did not hold her opinion. i do not think an attitude like that is helpful for any society..and afterall, we are a society even if you don't consider yourself a member. she was and still is the conservative, suppllyside economics god. perched on an alter of GREED!!!

[pfletcher1971]

I am reading the Fountainhead right now and I have to admit that Ms. Rand is a true intellectual. However, her almost complete lack of empathy is disturbing. It may even be borderline sociopathic.

[charmdoc]

Too bad she's not around today to run for President!

[mcufre]

According to Ayn Rand private property doesn't apply if you're a primitive. That means that anyone who is more advanced than the other has the inherent right to steal their property due to their superiority? that goes against her own philosophy, but to defend the plunder of the middle east this jew is willing to totally betray her own philosophy (which I agree with except I condemn her biased betrayal of it).

[Xomanowar99]

Ayn Rand was a malicious evil bitch. Donahue exposed her.

[alaska93422]

wow. donahue's (and guest's) ability to misunderstand logic and tear limb from limb words from meanings is disturbing, transparent, and seemingly malicious. it appears american education no longer includes teaching the ability to reason. people are harder to control if they have the ability to think for themselves. they illustrate her philosophy as they try to tear her down to their confused, fearful level.

[SomeUsefulIdiot]

I wish there were TV shows today that asked important questions and inspired real debate. It's good to see this

[phil8888]

She certainly seems like she could be a hard pill to swallow sometimes. Not necessarily her ideas, but just how she acts sometimes, as demonstrated in this and the past clip (4/.5)

[catulusfelis]

@phil8888 True, but I think that the good in her outways those flaws. In fact, that's the case with most people really.

[Claytrainor]

Amazing interview.

Ayn was a truly unique woman. I need to study up on her work.