LA motor show: Chevrolet Cruze by autocar.co.uk

[sspope]

It's an Opel Astra with a boot.

[maskedscientist]

American and German cars rock! You may say american cars are low quality, which they mostly are, but they're tough, and the high end ones are gorgeous

[gmax876]

ITS A KIA!!!

[matrixloader]

actually it is just a rebadged 2008 daewoo lacetti sold in china.

[gmax876]

that's even worse, its a geely.

[nvidea8400gs]

@gmax876

No it isn't, it isn't even remotely related to the Chinese manufacturer "Geely", or korean manufacturer "Kia". Neither Kia nor Geely are GM subsidiaries, whereas Daewoo is.

[gmax876]

I was being a jerk, the car is just plain ugly and backward. I wouldn't drive one.

[nvidea8400gs]

Yes; ten-four on that one.

[timmhg]

@gmax876 Hahahahaha.

[divooriginale]

So this is the Cobalt's replacement... I hope this car has a better interior and better fuel economy than the outgoing model. I wonder if they've got an SS version planned?

[bignube]

better than the look they usually have. ...

[tonydano]

i am tired of people dissing the cobalt. it seems like everybody forgot that GM stopped making the cavalier only 4 years ago. now THAT was a pos car

[nickandbristudios]

its just another average looking car

[SuperleggeraVW]

I would seriously consider a Hyundia instead. The back lights look cheesy and the front is so big it looks like one of those small SUV's.

[ipodkiller6]

the big problem with chevy today isn't the design, but the quality of the build. they're really just rolling buckets these days.

[desimunda116]

This is a good looking car. Has a European image to it.

[Tomaszeks]

Still looks like daewoo to me ;)

[legr8est1234]

Design-wise, it looks better than a Corolla or a Civic, and especially the Cobalt it succeeds. However, a Volkswagen Golf looks better.

[rtardbox]

brand new and i can already envision it in the junk yard

[ryanthemayan]

this will be the next big thing in taxis

[245thegreat]

mitsubishi....

[LFSvidMan]

There are things like tripods and steady-cam, it would make the watching a lot better. Anyway, I think I just saw TG's new Reasonably Priced Car

[coolerdude44]

nah they usually pick a terrible car for the reasonably priced car, this car is properly engineered.

[LFSvidMan]

Sorry, but I'd have to disagree with you. It's still that "badge engineering" product, it's originally a Daewoo Lacetti Premiere, which actually provoked me for a "reasobably priced car" reference.

[coolerdude44]

yeah, but compared to chevrolet's previous reasonably priced cars (cobalt in america, lacetti in europe) this thing is a fucking bugatti veyron in an engineering sense.

[LFSvidMan]

Well yeah, it's not a horse and buggy in automotive terms anymore :D

[coolerdude44]

yeah, but why did i get three thumbs down?  are you people suggesting this car is not better than the lacetti/cobalt?

[Darkhelboy]

What a bad cameran!

[moderndesignworks]

get rid off gold chevy logo, it's so tacky, use chrome or 3d sculptured silver!!!

[JaySee5]

You can put the silver Daewoo badge on instead. Or the Holden badge. It's sold under many brands throughout the world.

[ShizoluckyShizostar]

Daewoo badge would be too cool :D

[mrjost55]

looks very good for a cheap car

[moaski]

Your half right. Looks like a cheap car.

[julianshield1]

Thats already here in Australia, badged as the Holden Cruze, it really is a piece of crap.

[mrjost55]

lol, thanks for letting us know :D

[moaski]

I've always wondered what the common consensus of Holden is in Australia? Is it viewed as a good brand, mediocre, terrible?

It just seems every North American, re-badged Holden product has failed miserably.

Hasn't GM learned anything?

[coolerdude44]

failed miserably? what about the g8? the only reason that the gto failed was 1) because it was called the gto, but was nothing like the original (should have been called the pontiac monaro) and 2) it was considerably softened down for the american market.

[moaski]

The G8 sucks. I'm 6'-4" and couldn't fit in the thing.  I have more room in my Subaru, and it handles better and is faster.

GM only sold 15,002 G8 units in 2008 and barely 3000 in 2009 before Pontiac was discontinued. They had $5,415 in incentives for this purportedly "hot" model earlier this year, which is almost 20% off!

The GTO...gone not due to the name, but because it was cheap looking, heavy and underpowered.

[coolerdude44]

really? you're 6'4'' and can't fit in it? what the fuck are you talking about? i'm 6'5'' and i found it to be the roomiest thing this side of a maybach...

are you like 400 pounds, or something?

[coolerdude44]

and you have to remember, 15,000 units sold during the biggest automobile recession in the country's history is a pretty big accomplishment.

and you can't expect them to be sold in 2009 when the brand was announced to be discontinued.

the only reason i didn't buy one myself was because it's too big for me.

[moaski]

F-Series sales totaled 515,513 units in 2008 compared to the G8's 15,000. That F-Series figure is down 25.4 percent from a year earlier, but the F-Series still beat the Chevrolet Silverado (465,065 units), Toyota Camry (436,617 units), Honda Accord (372,789 units), Toyota Corolla (351,007 units) and Honda Civic (339,289 units).

I weight 240# and am 6'-4" tall. The 2009 G8 has 42.2 " of front leg room compared to 43.5 " in my Subaru! Maybe I have longer legs than you?

[coolerdude44]

i doubt it, but w/e. the point is that gm only expected to sell 30,000 in its opening year, and then expected to sell only 10,000 once the recession hit. i think they ended up selling around 20,000, so it still sold better than they intended it to.

and ahh yes, the toyota camry. for the life of me, i have no idea why it sells so well. the ford fusion, mazda 6, nissan altima, honda accord, and subaru legacy are all better cars for the same or less money... why is the camry so popular?

[moaski]

Yeah, GM does have low expectations. When you badge engineer all your mediocre cars, you don't have to sell many I guess?

The Toyota Camry is foremost bulletproof reliable and has been for decades now. Reliability and consumer loyalty is established over time.

GM products are too inconsistent in their reliability to provide any of their brands a sound reputation in this category. Secondly, it's functional and safe. Third, it's interior and exterior build quality is well above par.

[coolerdude44]

come on, don't tell me that toyota is more reliable than nissan, honda, subaru, and mazda. i've owned all except for subaru, and they've all been absolutely bullet proof. the only difference is that the camry (which my father actually owns) is painstakingly boring, whereas the altima is painstakingly quirky, and the mazda 6 (which i own) blows them both out of the water in every category except perhaps interior fit and finish.

[coolerdude44]

but i think it's an interesting philosophical question: why have all the best selling cars been bad cars?

think about it: world's best selling cars are vw beetle, toyota camry, toyota carolla, etc. these cars are all terrible compared to their competitors, why did they sell so well.

toyota can't hang on to their reputation for the rest of time. we've seen that jeep tried to do something similar, underengineering their cars but advertising them as a rugged jeep. this strategy doesn't work.

[moaski]

I've always thought of Mazdas, especially the 6, as chick cars. Maybe because the only people I know who own them are girls.

Anyways, your philosophical question isn't hard to answer, and your logic is faulty.

[coolerdude44]

please explain...

[LFSvidMan]

I never looked at my "6" and thought it was "yeah, girlish", if im honest. I think it's definetly unisex. MX5 and the "3" are girlish, that's for sure, and RX8 isn't THAT manly, but is acceptable in my opinion

[moaski]

You may consider these cars "terrible, " because (speaking as a car enthusiast) these cars lack elements of sportiness.

To a typical car buyer, who's main concern is a car's longevity and getting from point A to B on a daily basis, these cars are excellent.

The Beetle, Camry and Corolla are/were reliable, affordable, functional, and are/were very well built (even though their construction is spartan).

[FrostedCold]

Agreed. Good observation. Enthusiasts need not apply.

[LFSvidMan]

Maybe Camry is popular in USA, but here in EU, I tend to see tons of Avensis models... comparing it to Mazda 6 (which I now own) its a piece of overpriced blendness...

[veyronman]

they haven't sold the Camry in the UK at least for YEARS. really unpopular

[LFSvidMan]

probably my poor choice of words (sorry, English is my third language). What I meant to say is I haven't seen a Camry in quite some time, but here in Latvia, as well as Lithuania, Estonia, Germany and France, I encountered a lot of Avensis models...

[coolerdude44]

yeah i own a mazda 6 too, and it's an exciting car for short blasts. but for long distance cruising (or the primary function for a car in america) it's terrible. the seats are way too hard, the suspension's too firm. i'm thinking of selling it for something slightly better engineered so as to be both comfortable and sporty.

sort of leaning towards an early mazda rx8, or maybe even a volvo s60r.

[sspope]

And you're expecting the RX8 to have softer suspension...................r­ight!

Mazda 6 is known for its hard suspension, but it handles well.

[coolerdude44]

it does though, i've seen countless reviews that compare and contrast the mazda rx8 with the nissan 350z , and they all say the mazda is tuned more for comfort, but isn't as sharp.

i've heard people say the mazda has a great ride in general, not only compared to the 350z.

and the mazda doesn't handle too well. i took it to a closed road course i sort of stumbled on (long story) the other day, and it felt like it would roll over before it understeers... which i don't find relaxing.

[sspope]

Well obviously it's not a sports sedan, but it's better than most other cars in its segment. Camry, Accord, etc...

[coolerdude44]

well, yeah. it's way better than the nissan altima.  but still, way too unsettling for my tastes. i haven't decided yet if i will replace the car. if i do, i'll probably get a golf gti or mazda rx8.

[lffit]

My sons Mazda RX8 we cant bring back home after a snow storm; skids like hell; too light in the rear end, so its parked 2 miles away from home; this car has a front on it like truck ugly!

[coolerdude44]

@lffit yeah i've heard it can be skittish on slippery roads.

[moaski]

Do you have anything relevant to say or are you going to continue on babbling unsupported nonsense?

[julianshield1]

Yeah, nothing special, mostly workers or small families have them. Just an example of how Aussie cars failed in America, is the Pontiac G8 (Holdenn Commodore), very popular here, rubbish over there. They are actually selling so few in America, they are selling the American model here as 'special edition'.

[moaski]

Yeah, pretty much sounds like the Chevy brand.

[BlueGryphnix]

are you nuts, do you kno how many G8s i see... i live in GA USA and i see a G8 almost every day, get your facts straight, lots of people buy them, the only mistake GM is making is increasing the price... other than that the G8s are really loved and bought.

[julianshield1]

Well sorry i have never been to America, maybe you live in Boganville, GA.

[moaski]

Maybe all the G8s sold just happened to be in Georgia?

I live in Michigan and I've seen about 3. Not that I go out of my way seeking out that piece of crap.