Top 10 Ways for Youth Leaders to Hinder the Church (Doug Eaton)

[xuxucommamao]

hey dude, thanks for the heads up!

[soxster101]

My gawd he's cute!

[HisServent1]

WOW, wait a minute..... Did he just say what I think he said at the end? Did this dude just tell me that it does not matter if we as youth pastors are not teaching our youth correct doctrine? and not to mention he said just make it all about fun and games.... 1st if we are not teaching our youth correct doctrine then what do we teach them? That God is a joke and laughs? NO, I DON'T THINK SO BUDDY. This guy has things all wrong. You can still teach the bible while having fun, Just ask my youth. 

[lesingarson10]

@HisServent1 with all due respect sir, its not about FUN its about your kid being drenched in the full knowledge of GOD. i bet they didnt know that GOD hates sinners! i bet they also didnt know that unless are you have been baptized of water and of spirit, you CANT go to heaven. hahah. its all in the bible. the problem today is, the see jesus as some accessory! thats why its fun.

[HisServent1]

@lesingarson10 I think you read my comment wrong dude.... The guy in the video is saying you need to just make sure it is all fun and games for them.... He said it does not matter if you are teaching them correct doctrine as long as they are having fun..... And God does not hate the sinner he hates the sin.... If he hated the sinner then he hates everyone of us, and I know my God loves me and all of his children..... And yes I do teach my youth while still keeping it interesting to them.....

[HisServent1]

@lesingarson10 And btw yes my youth do know that you have to be baptized with water and except Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior so that your name will be written in the Lambs Book of Life so you can go to heaven to be with The Heavenly Father.... They also have been taught by me that you can not just be saved and then expect to live the same way you were living.... I teach on the correct doctrine but yes I make it fun for them so it sticks to their brains and they can use it in daily life..

[xkillaman]

If you do the exact opposite of what he says you'll be an okay youth leader.

[janeym]

so sad yet so true.

[DorbWars]

hey you really never got his point hahah :P try to understand first before you react :)

[banjoslemons]

number 11: Isolate the youth from the rest of the Church body. Don't expect youth to associate with anyone more than 10 years older than themselves, even though this severs them from the richest sources of wisdom and theological understanding at hand. <----- I was part of a youth group and college group that operated this way, and they really become a church within a church, with little understanding, and even scorn for the larger body they were called to be part of.

[Super1alpha]

My question is why was there a mormon commercial at the beginning?????

[oceaneyess67]

LOL, i read some of the comment and it astrounds me that people didnt get it...ahh scary hopefully none of them are teaching our youth. Excellent video- might send it too our youth leaders if possible..thxs

[Digitizeddragon23]

WOOOOOOOOOO LOL!! You got me brah!! I was looking at my wife with a real scared look on my face until the end. Great job and keep up the good work!! Great sarcasm!

[kizzybone]

Great Video. It IS sad that some of these other youth leaders missed the satire. It's kind of scary some of the people we have leading our youth out there. It's also a little scary how accurate these points are. I've seen a lot of them in action. Thanks for caring enough about your ministry to share this. God bless you.

[JacobGboy]

Hahahaha......I'm a youth leader,I really enjoyed this video, it's very funny, and I hope it moves youth leaders that need to embrace holiness reformation. None of this seeker friendly, light gospal.

[phil4508]

this is tongue in cheek...

[phil4508]

you are right...tongue in cheek...

[RandPhoenix]

It's sad that people could ever even remotely think that this wasn't sarcastic.

[samoa206]

LOL hahahahaha!! I know some youth that do this!! Man we need real change with in the Youth!!!

[JPNR]

lol I thought it was funny in a sense, but sad because many do these exact same things. God bless you man, and of course to everyone he was being sarcastic.

[Craigg639]

Im guessing this guy isnt serious, because that was 10 things i would do the oppisite to. Any man who accutally does these things isnt a Christian, but a Hummanist who think hes Christian, because he's trying to better life for man, above Glorfing God

[kornykorhorn]

Yes, I am agreeing with you. He is using sarcasm. You shouldn't scratch ears. You should preach God's word.

However, you have to also care for the audience, thus being a good shepherd.

He is using sarcasm.

[nrhouseman]

Just play? Dumb it down? No expectations? Just alternative to drinking? Youth can't serve in church now? Scratch itching ears? Just be their 'buddy'? Be a high school pal? Don't worry about being theology accurate? Doesn't matter to teach correct doctrine?????????? Bro!!! You are speaking words from the pits of Hell! Do you not read your Bible at all? Everything you said is opposite and contrary to sound biblical instruction you ministry! Stop! Stop! Stop! Take this video down off Youtube!

[dafrazzman]

Thanks for putting this up and putting up with the flak. I just started leading middle-schoolers, and I hope to be reminded of these things regularly.

A lot of these things, I'm sure, are easier said than done. I know the more I'm reminded though, the less I'll forget.

My heart burns for some of these kids, but passion without knowledge is greatly handicapped.

[stephjh2006]

Some good points but basically unhelpfull. We don't need to be more concerned with fixating on the problem rather than giving a solution, an example, and more importantly some encouragement.

The church is devided when people are trying to edify

THEMSELVES over others, by putting people down without providing constructive feedback. Why not look to edify, encourage, and yes correct, but ultimately edify. Look how Paul wrote his letters. Encourage, correct, encourage again

[JustinMartin87]

Great video. Thank you sir, seems pretty clear to me what you are trying to get at, good stuff.

[kornykorhorn]

Good stuff!

Regarding the scratching their itch...if you don't scratch their itches, you may find yourself fired or having lowered attendance.

Nice Hacienda wall in the background.

Make sure to look at the depth of FF5.

Community happens as you do service & evangelism.

"relationally accurate" lolz

Nice beard! I am growing one & wonder if the beard is slowly replacing the Evangelical go-tee?

[nrhouseman]

@kornykorhorn Go read the verses about those who want itching ears scratched....It's the people who refuse to listen to the Truth! If all we do is scratch itching ears we are telling people what they want to hear and not the truth they need to hear. You and the wise guy in the vid both have no understanding of sound doctrine. Btw, scratching itching ears will always grow attendence, but not create Revival. Numbers do not equal True Revival...Repentance does.

[kornykorhorn]

Good stuff!

Regarding the scratching their itch...if you don't scratch their itches, you may find yourself fired or having lowered attendance.

Nice Hacienda wall in the background.

Make sure to look at the depth of FF5.

Community happens as you do service & evangelism.

"relationally accurate"  lolz

[cubzwin38]

This isn't even sarcasm. He said it at the beginning. These are ways to HINDER the church! How are you guys missing this?

[nrhouseman]

@cubzwin38 It's slanting words and in my opinion sly and deceptive. If you listen closely to this video you will see he is slipping in things completely contrary to the Scripture. This cannot be of God.  Any admonition or instruction concerning ministry must be in line with sound doctrine and coincide with good biblical teaching...this man goes opposite of many biblical principles. Stay Alert!

[berean1129]

summary: Church is about fun and games, dumb down teaching(dont preach the Gospel),don't expect anything from them,alcoholics anonymous is better than church, dont expect them to serve, appeal to itching ears (oops he didn't read 2 Timothy 4:3), don't worry about them being carnal, be their buddy not their pastor, dont be theologocally accurate (lying is okay)...... There is nothing Christian in this video.What is true is preach the Gospel. This guy is a .............FALSE TEACHER!

[lmstrs]

@berean1129 Summary: these are the ways to damage the church: Church is about fun and games...

@LaneCh I'm not sure how people are missing this.

[janeym]

SO. TRUE.

[AprilSixth]

I disagree with this approach. Our youth needs to know the Truth, this IS what makes the Christian religion what it is. You are basically just teaching us to be like a YMCA, not a church.

[LaneCh]

@AprilSixth The video is sarcastic to make a point. Sorry you missed that.

[AprilSixth]

@LaneCh Oh....:) It is hard to see that this is sarcastic. I know a lot of churches that act like this. You should make it more of a point to show the sarcasm. It seems to the first time viewer that you're serious.

[arnell313]

@LaneCh gotta be careful, everyone may not respond well to or even comprehend sarcasm. So also ye, unless ye utter by the tongue speech easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye will be speaking into the air. 1Corinthians 14:9

[trencherpin]

plus you haven't read all christian literature thats out there. There are wolves in sheeps clothing and its your job to shephard and watch out for them and NOT to have this DOnt care attitude about what books they are as long as they are christian.

Brother...seems you have a heart for this work but you need to sit down and take some advice yourself and understand the culture we live in and the problem with the church today is because of this nonsense.

[trencherpin]

If this is the case then why not go and become a youth leader at a community centre? I come from the UK,.... there was a youth leader at one of the centres there,...his goal???....just like what this guy said...to have fun and games. You have no right to be a leader in the church,...wake up, those games and hot dog events will not grow character, will not nurture them in the Word, will not help them to understand why we believe what we believe. Please, just go to community centre.

[laughinginau]

You forgot how important it is to usurp the role of the parents! Your should expect that teens are not interested in developing a strong relationship with their parents and make sure to provide an alternative adult relationship.

[laughinginau]

@laughinginau This has the added advantage of giving the parents someone else to blame when their children grow up and abandon the faith!

[sixfigures1]

Sadly, this is what my youth pastor did.

[WaltGe]

One thing that I was blessed with in my formative years was a pastor that cared about us, even if he seemed crazy at the time. Caring means that he was focused on where our souls were and correct doctrine.

[sloopjohnb324]

Great video, you are dead on. Thanks for making this video, you make some great points.

[worshipper26]

Hi, I absolutely LOVE these videos. Though I understand why deaton disabled his comments, would you please let him know that we totally got what he is doing, and we think it is AWESOME.Great way to get a point across, and though the content it serious, his delivery is so very funny! Thanks and God bless...Continue to build the Kingdom of God!

[kurious1993]

Good points!

[keljesusgirl]

Good video- with some great points-

Yeah youth leaders- RAISE up some kids with A REAL VISION!!!!!....not just some more semi- worldly, semi- fake Christian kids...

[masterHakai]

Good video, I totally agree.

[nomankenneth]

i posted the video anyways lol .. cos it sounds funny :)

cos i dint realise til the end about the video lol

[nomankenneth]

is this video serious??

no expectations??..

how are u going to raise up leaders in the church for god's kingdom to prosper..

i think there shud be teachings .. althou it shud be a discussion .. and i also dnt think all 'christian things' are gd..

i agree with quite a few of the things u are saying thou ..

about being more friendly with the youth and things ..

and i think correct doctrine is important lol

i also jus realised tht this video was toungue in cheek lol ..

[MtelH]

He's talking about ways to not be an effective youth leader. Basically, do the opposite of it.

[joshda]

Rather than 10 things not to do, how about 10 ways that we can be effective in the lives of students?

[1donagin]

I think the point is to do the opposite.

[LaneCh]

@1donagin Exactly.

[moreshige2]

How being BOTH theologically and relationally relevant? You make it sound its already a lost cause to teach them sound doctrine. The problem is that we try to do everything on Sundays. We have our fun/fellowship days on saturdays but on Sundays we focus on teaching and studying. For our youth group, this is working very well. I have had years in experience in this...they don't come back when they're adults if you just focus on being "another buddy" to them.

[moreshige2]

You need to be both someone they look up to as well as someone they know through and through.

[jcsarmy]

Thanks so much now I know why my youth ministry has been a failure. Ive got to dumb it down! lol This was great and yfmaumeeumc is right, they really want to know the truth.

[yfmaumeeumc]

Great job Doug. Seriously great job. You hit so many truths, and satire was the best way to get it across.

As a youth pastor myself, I a have found that kids crave reality more than relationships. In other words, atonement, sin, hell, heaven, propitiation, justification, sanctification... etc is what they desire to hear. They just don't know they desire it... until they hear it.

Again, great work

[ItypeUread]

The last sentence of your post should be preached to youth pastors/ leaders everywhere.

[losingctrl]

"Which points do you assert that he's wrong on"

I'm quite sure I just gave two examples that I disagree with. Perhaps if you read my last post.

"Why not?"

It's not going too far out on a limb to say that a youth pastor knows more about the specifics of Christianity than an uneducated baby Christian. If you use words and concepts unfamiliar to them, you are obviously speaking over their heads.

For example: Anointing, great commission, Yahweh, sanctification, atonement, eucharist, etc.

[LaneCh]

"It's not going too far out on a limb to say that a youth pastor knows more about the specifics of Christianity than an uneducated baby Christian. If you use words and concepts unfamiliar to them, you are obviously speaking over their heads.

For example: Anointing, great commission, Yahweh, sanctification, atonement, eucharist, etc."

How do you teach them concepts without using those words and explaining what the mean?

[LaneCh]

Also, you assert that there were two examples... which was the other?

[losingctrl]

Don't get me wrong, I think he is very correct on most of these points, but you have to take it with a grain of salt, at least in my experience.

For instance, not "dumbing it down" is a good tip, but you can't start speaking christianese and expect inner-city kids to follow every word you say.

"Checking out stuff that they're into" might be a good idea, but could quickly become fascist. A youth pastor is far from infallible, a conservative pastor might very well be taking things over the edge.

[LaneCh]

"you can't start speaking christianese and expect inner-city kids to follow every word you say."

Why not?

[losingctrl]

Don't attack people because they agree with some of the things this guy is saying (or, what he isn't saying...)

Don't assume he's infallible. Why can't he be wrong on some of these points?

[famishus2000]

I agree. Attacking people is not biblical. I wasn't trying to be mean. I was just trying to validate the need for this type of message. I was part of a Youth Ministry not to long ago. I was using alot of the methods and philosophies he is talking about. I'm glad no one attacked me! Haha. But I wish someone would have given me the straight facts on biblical ministry. I meant what I said out of love because I am in the same boat.

[chinchilla8]

Now simply asking someone to explain their statements is an attack?

[LaneCh]

Which points do you assert that he's wrong on or are you just attempting to spread proverbial doubt in general in hopes that no one asks you directly which points are in error?

[famishus2000]

I think the comments like "I agreed with half" or "I agreed with some" point out why this video and this guys ministry here are so important. If you "agreed" with any of it then realize that it is God exposing you. And be thankful, He only corrects and exposes those he loves. Trust me, not too long ago I was this video.

[frizzleyfrozzle]

I am BLOWN away that people who missed the point of this message on how to "HINDER" the church are actually AGREEING with the things he's saying. WAY TO REVEAL THE UNBIBLICAL ministry philosophies of the modern church.

[LTCreativeStudio]

Ok I was not paying attention to the title! "10 Ways for Youth Leaders to Hinder the Church" key word "HINDER" Please feel free to remove my message. God bless you. :)

[LTCreativeStudio]

I agree with some of the points but do not scratch peoples ears that is against the word of God.

For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 2 Timothy 4:3

God bless you

[raphaelaaron]

so true. one more thing he forgot to mention. if he did i missed it: "use only the message remix translation and urge everyone to get their own. its hip and cool."

i knew people who are now sold on God and a lot of it had to do with reading them King James back when they were young. its not as hard as people think to comprehend.

[pjfan201]

I am a Director of Youth Ministries. I only agree with about half of these points. For example we can't be the kids "buddies". They need guidance, direction, and structure...in fact they long for it. And the last thing, to not worry about being THEOLOGICALLY ACCURATE? Are you kidding me? You mean to tell me we should teach them wrong things so later in life someone else has to correct them? Way to liberal for me. The "Alternative to drinking" didn't sit well with me either...

[LaneCh]

You didn't get the point that this video was satire. Did you not hear the beginning when he said, "10 Ways to HINDER the church", read the title of the video, or listen all the way to the end when he reiterated it?

[BornAgain316]

it's scary that the youth director who didn't know this was satire agreed with half the points =O

[ak1986]

This is shocking!!!

[gsshipman]

I like your efforts to help out youth leaders- your words are very accurate. However, I'd like to point out that the NT church had no youth leaders, modern day pastors, or clergy at all. They might have been on to something since it was the way of those trained by Christ and it was recorded in the NT. I think a clear picture of the NT church would point out how even the existence of a clergy member, even if following all your advice, would confuse & maim the church from knowing/sharing Christ

[DDDDDDDD35]

funny.

[LockeandDemosthenes]

This is a ticky-tacky comment, but rhetorically, I can't easily tell where your sarcasm ends and where your serious point of encouragement begins. I noticed this with your video on worship leaders as well.  There's no pause for effect to allow the import of your criticism to sink in, no noticeable change in your voice to differentiate your tone of reproof from your tone of support.

It's a great idea, but I give it about a B- on execution.

[LaneCh]

Thanks for the feedback. We're looking forward to the work that you do on the subject.

[LockeandDemosthenes]

Sadly, I probably won't do this on the same medium. My work is mostly from the pulpit and in the adult classroom on Sunday mornings, not as much in the youth room, though I do help with Jr. High catechesis.

Like I said, I like the ideas you bring forth. Keep up the good work.

[sparwood8]

He is mocking the false beliefs of today. I like this. Kids need to understand the real gospel, and the sooner the better. They also need to know how to recognize their enemy and how to fight him with the word of God.

I am all for attacking the false teachers, as I am tired of seeing kids quit church 6 months after graduating high school, only to be shacked up within a year and no longer laughing and smiling, but instead with tattoos and nose studs

(They were never saved)

[GodsWordIsTruth]

a christian friend of mine who is unfortunately "seeker friendly" type always clashes heads wit me on these subjects. the other day on the phone she said "we had an amazing time at church playing board games! we invited the whole neighbourhood and played this game for hours! God wasnt mentioned once, everyone had an awesome time, i mean, these people wouldnt even darken a church a year ago!!!"......................y­eah, pass along the sick bag.....aarghhhhh!!

[JS83lbc]

ah.. you know what.. i might have misundestood this video.. forgive me.. i wish i could delete my last comment!! :p

[LaneCh]

I'm on it. :)

[JS83lbc]

thanks!! :)

[differentFOCUS]

"..as long as we give than alternative to drinking.." ROFL

this is good

[speedgsx98]

Well, as a former youth pastor, I like your commentary. I used games as an icebreaker, but we always had a good Bible study with expository teaching of the scripture. The time spent in worship and the scripture was serious time. Misbehavers were sent out of the room. God is not to be mocked, or taken lightly. A big problem in youth groups today is the lack of interaction by the youth in not only the church, but in the community. Thanks Doug for this quick video. God Bless.

[KeyshaaBoo]

ahahaha i like this :)

[chewnisklan]

My youth group 15 years ago followed all those points to a T. When I went to them about my concerns as a new believer they ignored me and continued with their fun and games. Thats one reason why we don't do Sunday School and won't do youth group. I don't need anyone to babysit my kids and discourage them spiritually. Children should be in with their parents getting the real meat and potatoes. you'd be surprised how much a young child can pick up let alone a teen.

[wannabenewsboy]

Once again, painting with a brush so broad it's hard to believe he can actually wield it. This forum does not provide me enough space to post all of my reactions to this video.

[houseguy4]

We led our Youth Group for 5 years. The books and seminars were all about "X-treme or Ultimate" this or that. Yuk! When we broke into prayer groups, the kids took it seriously and we had to shoo them home.

I really like Paul Washer's phrase: some churches are like "Six Flags over Jesus".

[fruitofspirit]

EXACTLY, when we have "to dress up" the Gospel so much for kids & make it "appealing to them," it speaks to our own lack of faith & lukewarm enthusiam.

I think just for yucks we should submit a list of all the great one-liners from Paul Washer to these lesson-planning companies & call it, EXTREME TRUTH! Like that Jack Nicholson movie, "You can't HANDLE the Truth!" LOL

[fruitofspirit]

As for dumbing it down, a flyer from my child's Sunday lesson sited this order of events: a prophet gave a scroll to a man, the man got angry, the prophet was punished, end of story. What's missing?

GOD'S MESSAGE. The ONLY point of a prophet is his or her MESSAGE from God. Without that, we're talking about a bunch of dusty guys wearing a dress. And we wonder why we have 35 yr old people at ice-cream socials who don't know God. Cuz nobody talks about Who He is or want He wants.

[TmasterJ]

"Hotdog eating contests?" lol.

My mouth dropped whenever he said "Dumb it down. They're learning calculus and philosophy, and getting ready for college and what not, but dumb it down." That's a good one that I'm going to have to use, ugh, I can already see the arguments now.

Actually, the youth at my church, it's stinkin awesome. Way God focused, nothing on this video applied (pretty much). I thank God for that. I've really taken it for granted, I got it good.

Take care and God bless.

[kevin5749]

beeee careful, anytime you think you or your group has got it together, God may just say oh really? pride goes before a fall.

instead of saying we don't have these problems lets be vigilant because they may creep in unnoticed

[seanpaynedotnet]

Great video.

[sarelff]

I laughed :)) at the ironic reality of this in the church today. Thanks for the sad laugh. :/

[simplyjabez]

you labeled this video wrong. Should be "top 10 ways for youth leaders to send their kids to hell". at least get something right

[TmasterJ]

LOL. (Should I be loling?)

[fruitofspirit]

Yes, you should...as long as we intend to affect these changes, initial giggles are permissible in the Presence of God. I'm sure He has been LOLING at our goofey tactics for some time now. There again, LOL.

[TmasterJ]

Yeah, but the point I was making with that was, "That's so sad because it's true. Should I laugh at this sad truth?"

[fruitofspirit]

AMEN!

[LaneCh]

@simplyjabez The video is sarcastic to make a point. Sorry you missed that.

[HenryvKeiper]

My youth group in high school did skits that taught lessons like this. Among other things they said don't tell people who drink or smoke they're going to hell, don't flirt with your girlfriend during seminars, etc.

[america2288]

oh, heh heh. Yeah, I should have watched the whole video...sorry.

[suppeschmecktgut]

Well done! ;-)

[petemillner]

Excellent video

[mysoxbered]

A FREAKING MEN

[ems1231]

those are some sucky goals....no expectations? just give them an alternative to drinking and not allowing them to serve? itching ears? Community is king? Relationally accurate? etc... WoW! It's no wonder why so many youths today are led astray. Ya'll, we need to pray for our leaders

[YoungCalvinist08]

My youth leaders were horrible. They were obsessed with getting us baptised in the Holy Ghost - no Bible teaching, no doctrine, just mindless experience

[hsindiam]

@YoungCalvinist08 Ours used to be so; yet we found creative ways to really feed them with the Word. There were some eliminations at first, but the one that stayed became the catalysts for Youth Overcomers. RLC Youth Siloam Servant.

[MSP]

"just give them an alternative to drinking" lol

salvation by prohibition

[easy530]

amen! its sad that this is all true and actually happening. the exact reasons why i stopped going to youth groups, i couldnt tell the difference between them and summer camp

[danielfox347]

cont. this verse as well...Rom. 10:14-15, "How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? How will they preach unless they are sent?..."

[TruthInTheWord]

Those who are TRULY called to preach will be guided by the Holy Spirit to do so... and in doing so, those with ears to hear will hear. My point however is that when someone is TRULY born again, they can't help but be completely moved by the Truth so that anything, including a "faulty teacher", cannot hinder God's Will to transform that individual; the Holy Spirit becomes their guide with the Truth in God's Word, not some unregenerate soul's shenanigans they happen to call church.

[falcoismydog]

TruthInTheWord,

Acts 20:28-31 say, "Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers[elders]. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard!"

[falcoismydog]

Truth,

Can you explain why Paul warns the church here(Acts 20:28-31) to "be on guard" for these wolves if the wolves can't do any real damage to the church? Why does God put overseers in place to shepherd the flock?

No disrespect intended, but you seem to advocating a kind of hyper Calvinistic approach. Are you meaning to say that we should just sit back and not confront false teaching?

[TruthInTheWord]

Of course His Sheep shall be warned of wolves who will bear bad fruit... and then what? Be discouraged? It is encouraging to say that bad fruit does not stad in the way of the Will of our Lord... because it doesn't.

Romans 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen

Wolves should definitely be avoided... not attacked. Their defeat is already certain.

Sorry if I sound all "hyper-Calvinesque" ;)

[falcoismydog]

I think that we need to pay attention to the way that Paul describes these false teachers. He doesn't call them rotten fruit which can make the sheep sick and should be avoided, rather he calls them wolves. Wolves scatter flocks and attack sheep and what do shepherds do? They do what's necessary to protect their sheep including killing the wolves (in self defense) occasionally. Actual shepherds hunt wolves.

You sound like you may be confusing "warning" the sheep with "attacking" the wolves.

[TruthInTheWord]

Well Paul says it right here in Romans 16:17 "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."

Not sure where you got "rotten fruit making sheep sick", or "killing wolves", etc. Not confused with warning sheep/attacking wolves either.

[falcoismydog]

And just how does one go about "marking" these wolves and how does a shepherd go about helping his sheep to avoid them? I think that the shepherd would have to expose the false teachers which some would call attacking.

[TruthInTheWord]

Not to argue semantics, but I might use the word "reproof"... which to me is really not synonymous with "attack". You may also use rebuke, etc. You probably meant it in that way, I just didn't take it as such. I really don't like getting into these arguments, I just want to encourage my Brothers that wolves, as they predominantly flourish in the "churches" of today, will not stand in the way of the Will of our Lord. That's all. Take care.

[falcoismydog]

Agreed.

[danielfox347]

to: truthintheword

No, you're missing the part where we are to "give attention to the reading of Scripture, to exhortation and teaching."..."being and example" 1 Tim. 4:12-13 The Bible teaches that God is in control, but that we have a part to play in His plan as well! We are the body of Christ, we are His hands and feet, so to speak.

[TruthInTheWord]

Actually, a youth "leader" who does every single one of these things will not stand in the way of the will of our God. He is that powerful you know. No person or church calls a man to Christ... so why are there any concerns about the "bad seeds" out there? If you are His, you are His... right? Or am I missing the part where the SUPERNATURAL calling to Christ is reliant on the soundness of any of you "ordained" folks.

[falcoismydog]

I think you are missing the point somewhat. God is sovereign I agree, but elders are still called to rightly handle the Word of truth and the church is repeatedly told to beware of false teachers.

Should we still proclaim the Gospel? What for? If you are His you are His...right?

[GodisHoly474]

what do you mean? "Should we still proclaim the Gospel? What for? If you are His you are His...right?" are you saying we should neglect the great commission?

[falcoismydog]

I was responding to TruthintheWord by pointing out that we aren't supposed to just sit back and wait for God to save who He will save, but we are to proclaim the gospel.

[TruthInTheWord]

I'm not sure where it reads that I am to put my trust in any elders "rightly handling of the Word.." as many elders are the wolves. I know an trust Christ ONLY because HE found and saved me... not because ANY person had anything to do with that. I never admonished proclaiming the Gospel, however, the proclaiming of the Gospel is not what saves a person. It is literally a supernatural work that ONLY God can do that is so powerful, that once saved, one cannot deny the Gospel that is preached.

[falcoismydog]

See for instance Hebrews 13:17 which says, "Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you."

The normative way of salvation comes through the hearing of the gospel being preached. So, for most people, other people are involved as they are used by God.

[TruthInTheWord]

Here is a good Bible study for you regarding that passage.

spiritualabuse(dot)org/mywriti­ngs/obedience(dot)html

As far as the second part of your comment, watch this video on Lane's channel.

watch?v=_NNjVJsKUn4

Pay attention to the part where 1)GOD has elected certain people to be saved AND THEN 2)those people are called by hearing the Gospel + guided by the Holy Spirit. Salvation is God initiated... and in NO WAY, man initiated. Mark even points out how people "blur" or change the order.

[falcoismydog]

I read an article from the link on Heb 13:17 about the abuse of authority and I agree. However, just because the verse has been misused does not dissolve it's implications for us as individual believers.

[falcoismydog]

I've seen that video before and agree totally. I have fully embraced the doctrines of Grace and affirm the Reformed position on the ordo salutis 1) election, 2) predestination, 3) gospel call 4) inward call 5) regeneration, 6) conversion (faith & repentance), 7) justification, 8) sanctification, and 9) glorification. (Rom 8:29-30). So, maybe we are on the same page here.

[chinchilla8]

While it is true that God saves, we can't hold that people have "nothing to do with it." You're really sounding hypercalvinist here. Someone told you the Gospel, or preached the Word to you and you responded to an effectual call. I think it's very dangerous to sort of disregard the importance of the great commission (it sounds like that's what you're doing).

[TruthInTheWord]

So if you read my comments you would see that I never admonished preaching the gospel. My main point is that faulty teaching, as abundantly prominant in the "church" today, will not stand in the way of God's Will to transform one of His. No one preached the Gospel to me in such a way that I responded to an effectual call, rather it was He who called me in a moment of solitude, far removed from any praching at all. Seems like some think that "effective preaching" has more power than God.

[chinchilla8]

I don't disagree; in fact God has been pleased to save some people even in the midst of wrongly-led seminars, sermons and revivals.

Nor do I disagree that God's will shall not be stopped by any man.

My point was just that saying that no other person has anything to do with the promulgation of the Church sounded like you were on your way to "people are either saved or damned by God and there's nothing anyone can do about it." That's all. I don't think we're actually in disagreement in theory.

[chinchilla8]

I think the underlying point in the video here is that youth leaders- as well as elders and pastoral staff- are called by GOD to serve the church, and so they should be very careful about what they teach, how and why.

[TruthInTheWord]

And I think you are missing the point that many, if not most youth leaders, elders, and pastoral staff, are being called by Satan to serve churchianity. Those who are actually called by God and lead by the Holy Spirit will bear fruit... so it is written. Either way, God will be Glorified and His will be His. Not trying to start an argument... just calling it like it is. The "church" has fallen my friend... it acts just like the world, or haven't you noticed?

[adamvdm]

haha this is good. nice work.

[livinfree123]

10 ways for youth leaders to lead kids to hell.

Good satire in exsposing the New Age church. Just hear these points motivates me to the Truth of Jesus Christ.

[reduxq]

Good video, but give me some biblical ideas to use instead of just entertaining the kids.

[deaton29]

Reduxq, I appreciate your concern for wanting to hear more biblical teaching. If only more people had your heart. My goal with the video is that people would see that the opposite of the point made are actually the biblical ideas. God Bless.

[america2288]

Is this a joke???

[LaneCh]

It's satire with a point. He makes that clear at the end.

[bberchin]

Excellent video- the "youth pastor" is a major player in the demise of the evangelical church.

[JeffTheDude777]

I remember years ago. My youth "pastor" grabbed this one kids backside... I reported him to the leader of the church and nothing was done about it. So I left. But, great video.

[allstarboyscout]

AMEN

[medievalman86]

i think he made a slight mistake at the end by saying "we got to train up" NOpe. the parents alone. furthermore, no where in scripture does God approve or desire that families be broken up into youth groups, nurseries, sunday school, etc. so wouldnt we be guilty of adding to Gods word?

[rredhawk]

Yeah. My own high school youth group (back in the late 70's) constantly strove to achieve and maintain an atmosphere of excitement, fun, and "rowdiness" (the word most often used by us and our fellow parishoners to describe our youth group). Looking back, it almost seems as if our leaders were as much if not more interested in sublimating or satisfying our physical needs and issues rather than our spiritual ones. I know we studied the Bible and prayed but such activities were less memorable.

[geisler78]

Yeah! GET 'EM! Tons of 'em I know of... (*Cough* Hypocties!*)

[rlawrence2131]

Oh, wow. Yeah, the youth group I attended in jr. high used all ten of these wonderfully insightful tactics...maybe that's why the church has completely fallen away from the Gospel. hhhmmmmmmm

Thanks for the post--hilarious (and sad?)!

[DigitalCodex]

lol my jaw dropped hearing him say this, I didn't realize he was talking tongue 'n' cheek until the end of the clip. I should learn to pay more attention...

[ATLpirate]

I remember going to one of these "youth meetings" about six years ago when I was 17. It was ridiculous. The only specific thing I remember about it now was at one point a group of giggling teenage girls came riding into the room on little plastic tricycles to alert the room about a car wash which was to take place that following weekend. The whole thing was nothing but a goof-off fest.

[templekids]

thanks

[BonzaiJakab]

Honestly, Amazing!

I have found that many youth leaders are nowadays babysitting the teenagers rather than biblically educating them about God. Many churches say let's throw some pool tables here, a big screen tv over there, 5 playstation 3's here, 6 x-box's there, blah blah blah... but you find no learning/teaching/understandin­g happening at all.

We are called to preach The Gospel of Jesus Christ no matter what age group.

Rid yourselves of the world so that u may walk in the Spirit.

[johntwfhm]

...and be sure to follow the latest 10 step "tips for living" program. ;o)

Thanks for the post, bro.

[LaneCh]

Doug's done more of these types of series. There should be more posted here soon.

[yashuareigns]

Thanks so much. This what I see happening in many churches. I hope and pray many youth leaders will wake up.