Stochausen is a lot of make belief. A so called intellectual on music affairs. Ultitmate garbage. Anyone endorsing this kinda make belief is an idiot.
This guy was on the cover of Sgt.Pepper, and his influence has probably been as deep within some strains of rock music as in modern "art music" (aka classical music).
@guitarphunk This piece is actually incredibly strictly organised using total serialism to control most elements of the music. It does sound quite random though.
This is a beautiful composition and yes, this piece has modern jazz written all over it! Stockhausen's music gives one a deeper perspective to all music! If all we ever eat is vanilla ice cream our concept of ice cream will be limited - that's a fact.
first time I listen Stockhausen. It seems to me this songs is great.. I meen, it´s absolutely not a bullshit - radio hits song as Madonna o Lady Gaga but I do not like it at all... anyway: great Stockhausen! ....this is fucking strange song.
HO CAN U HEAR SOMETHING DIFFERENT TO THIS, IM SO GLAD I FOUND STOCKHAUSEN. HIS MUSIC IS SUPER FREE AND HAS SUCH A POSITIVE VIBE IT'S BEAUTIFUL, IT IS TRUTH , IT 'S GOODNESS!!!
This is a very early example of serial techniques being applied to musical parameters other than pitch. I believe Milton Babbitt may have beaten Stockhausen to the punch with his 3 Compositions for Piano (1947). Nonetheless, the work is masterful in its complex hexachordal rotations and serialization of register, dynamics, and durations (thanks partially to his mentor Olivier Messiaen).
its possible you know more about music than i do but your foolish enough to display your cultural ignorance publicly so its not very likely that opinion adds up to much. there is no scale on which stockhausen can be further away than bach. you talk nonsense. first try to understand then try to be understood.
Does anyone know if this is the first movement of the piece? If it's all of the movements, does anyone know where in the recording does the first movement end? I need to know for my history exam.
@TheySayImNasty but the true essence of it is the rhtythm, i couldn't keep tempo to this or messiaen....and i thought animals as leaders, and chimp spanner were hard to keep tempo to!
@zunaic Sorry for such a delayed response, zunaic. As far as what I found out, basically the most of what occurs in the piece is determined by a sort of criss-cross kind of procedure involved a series. One of the main differences between what Stockhausen does in this "total serial" work vs. what Boulez does in his "total serial" work Structures 1a is that Stockhausen applies serial rotation rather than transposition.
@zunaic Also, it must be mentioned that this only applies for the first movement of the piece. We didn't analyze the other portions, so I'm assuming that what goes on in those is less systematic. If you'd like to know more what I mean, you can check out Robert Morgan's excellent analysis in his "Twentieth-Century Music" anthology published by W.W. Norton. Make sure it's the anthology and not the music history of his published under the same title.
I get the idea of this composition, but I can't regard this as music. It's seems to be more of... a game to me, if you understand what I mean. It's like; "You hit that note, and then the oboe takes it, and then you have to get down to the low octav on the piano, and then the percussion comes in, and then back to the high octave.."
A kind of instrument game, but what comes out is not music. Not to my ears anyway :/ But i appreciate that he dares to experiment and create something completely new.
@evererterez Static in what way? Certainly, the rhythm and meter is not static. Perhaps it is not the piece that lacks "intuitive spirit" - especially because a musical work in a vacuum is really a neutral object. But when put through the filter of a human mind that lacks "intuitive spirit," it might appear that way. Perhaps your "intuition" has really been eliminated by your education and experience that sets up for you certain expectations and you now only hear stasis and value it negatively.
@DerangedRanger1 Rhythm and meter don't sound.. Of course, I refer to my "filter". Otherwise, we couldn't talk about music and sound. By intuition, I mean psychological quality (-> pop music, commercials, non-serial music), not necessarily art or innovation. The lack of psychological quality is reflected in some of the comments here. Fundamental questions about art and music..
@evererterez Rhythm and meter DO sound. Every accent you hear is a part of it. Every time you hear something louder at a time/space where you might not expect it, there is even a word for it: "syncopation." You should also refer to a dictionary before using a word like "intuition" - why are you making stuff up? It is ok not to like something, but this music is important to some people or t wouldn't be here. You don't understand it and you don't like it, so leave it alone or make an effort.
@evererterez The more I think about your statement "rhythm and meter don't sound", the more ridiculous it sounds. What you are suggesting is that time is not a part of music, but it seems to me that, at the very least, music is a dividing up of time and the insertion of events into time blocks. Since rhythm and meter have to do with time, there might be NO sound if they did were not there. If you disbelieve, listen to "Kontakte" Moment X, where pitch is converted to rhythm.
@DerangedRanger1 hmm rhythm doesn't sound at all. It's a measure, a tool to divide time "objectively" so that musicians can be synchronized. It's definitely not sound.
@DerangedRanger1 Beautifully articulated. I don't think the problem is necessarily that the average, modern listener is lacking a musically intuitive spirit completely. Perhaps it is that their concept of intuition is focused into more narrow channels?
@moonscore Intuition as evertenez seems to have it means: what I understand easily. This probably has more to do with the limits of his cultural experience and education. It is sad - he actually comes from a country that cares about arts (according to his profile). I wonder how the average American - whose education is unconcerned with languages and arts (for communication, creativity and critical thought) math and science (for bomb making) - would fare.
@DerangedRanger1 Am I getting intellectually downgraded by you because I am not a huge admirer of Stockhausen's work? I like Nono, Ligeti, Cerha, Boulez etc a lot. In their music, I find "intuition". There are still people (like you?), looking down to those stupid ones who won't understand. but why? music is not a language, hence it doesn't give exact information which could be misinterpreted. A video explains my point of view; search for: hape kerkeling hurz
@evererterez If you feel yourself getting intellectually downgraded, then I suggest that you rethink your arguments. I don't about your personal tastes, only your justifications for them. Instead of trying to justify them with futile arguments, how about just say: "I don't like it" and move on rather than try to convince other people that your taste is superior by putting their music down as not "intuitive." What is intuitive is subjectively determined - as are your tastes.
@DerangedRanger1 alright. -> "This probably has more to do with the limits of his cultural experience and education. It is sad - he actually comes from a country that cares about arts (according to his profile)"
Please don't extrapolate from my opinion to the cultural status of the country I live in. Stockhausen is in fact very popular among my colleagues and teachers. And his popularity is growing rapidly. He is probably going to be the "new Bach" of electronic music.
@evererterez i think miles davis is to groove orientated music what bach is to melodic music. stockhausen seems to me to be somehwre in between. in fairness i have no idea what electronic music sounds like produced by people who apply academic principles to it having studied contemporary. probably less of a pulse than anything you could conceivably dance to.
I'm sorry but you have little to no idea what you're saying. Stockhausen is absulutely nowhere in between Miles and Bach. Stockhausens music is usually even farther away from Bach than Mile's. Also Bach was fairly conventional melodically, whilst miles was not conventional with grooves. Therefore saying that Miles is to groove as Bach is to melody is already fallacious. To say that Stockhausen is in between a fallacy might perhaps make sense though.
@DerangedRanger1 Beautifully articulated. I don't think the problem is necessarily that the average, modern listener is lacking a musically intuitive spirit completely. Perhaps it is that their concept of intuition is focused into more narrow channels?
@ajamot Well...I hear and feel the pulses more than see them...but regardless, Stockhausen, Robin Maconie noted that Stockhausen had an "aversion to music with a continuous periodic beat" because, as Stockhausen says: "This periodic beat...makes people march without knowing it." He was born in 1933 and grew up through the Nazi period and his father was forced to be in the party, according to Maconie.
@steesalt I too am classically trained. One of the problems I have with most other classical musicians is their lack of curiosity. I was playing a duo for double bass and violin called "Together" on my masters recital. When my violinist had problems and I had to look for a new one, he said "Good luck. Not everyone is curious like you." I wound up changing the recital date rather than changing violinists. Have fun playing the greatest hits of the 19th c. over and over to the same elitists.
The more I listen to this music the better I understand how profound it really is. In Stockhausen's music silence plays a big role and at times the silence is so provocative. I admire the musicians for a truly outstanding performance here. The Kreuzspiel is not as emotional as his e.g. Klavierstuck IX, nevertheless, it gives me goose bumps every time I listen to it. Thank you again for uploading this music. This message is for Mandelblueten: I love you wherever you are
Dogs are reported to yell and cry in experiments when classical music is played. Theyre brain does not understand the complexity of the compilation of sounds in this specialised human order. Its the same with most people concering contemporary music. They simply are not trained to understand this complexity and consider it to be garbage.
Music itself, thats become clear during the last century, is a relative definition of different people.
A good example of point music influenced by Messiaen and Goeyvaerts. It is a beautiful and original composition by the composer Much in permutational serialism style. Please restrain from passing a negative judgment after first hearing this music because later, when you start liking it, you might feel pretty bad about your initial reaction.
I agree regarding the Comment Section. Also appreciate that you have taken time to listen to Kreuzspiel. I assume curiosity brought you to the Cross Game and freedom of spirit prompted leaving comments; all attributes of a dynamic mind as a static mind, like stagnant water is susceptible to decline. Music is sound that can communicate that which cannot be spoken. In that sense it is a powerful language. One has to get exposed to it and learn it before one could appreciate it. Do U agree?
anyone who can't find anything in this music should just shut the fuck up.
If you can't understand it and/or at LEAST appreciate it then you are an ignorant fuck and make the rest of us fans/musicians alike look worse than the garbage you've already shaped our image into.
You don't even know me. Who are you to call what is or isn't music? Just because I find artistic value in the music doesn't make me crazy, I think the fact you wish to control everyones mind and tell THEM what they should or shouldn't do is fucking crazy.
Get off your high horse, you're not as important as you must think you are. We're going to keep listening to this music, even if it means [being able to comprehend art] we're crazy because of it.
@Mandelblueten you are talking to me? you better go and listen to rap, that's the music for idiots like you, and don't write any more comments on classical music to respect yourself and not to express all your stupidity, you ignorant idiot!
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Now this is the kind of crap that even well known musicians claim to have been influenced by. It's like music academics who admire the emperor's new clothes. If this guy would be alive today I'd tell him to feck off...right after I had smashed all of his "valuable, historic" recording equipment.
actually you'd probably do nothing and continue to be a musical luddite with the intellect of a ball of mud whose opinion is of absolutely no import to any person on planet earth. cheers.
@TheEdgarvarese12 Hahahaha.....now, come on. These are plain sounds to suit pretentious snobs like yourself. People who regard this as some piece of "art", well in a way it's like the emperor's new clothes. In fact, we all know this is utter nonsense. These are the kinda sounds that make people to decide to end their lives by jumping of high buildings.
@kax61 I've been listening to this music and I know lot of people listening to this music and none of them jumped of any high building to end their lives, neither have I. If you really think it's just collection of plain sounds tell me which is the music which contains "unplain sounds", and tell me what is the difference between them. It's good that you have heard the story about emperor's new clothes, but I don't think your intelligence goes any further than that.
@kax61 it's human psyche that when someone doesn't understand something he/she thinks that others are just pretending that they understand. Good luck with your intelligence
@TheEdgarvarese12 Hey boy, you've always been aware you've been a no good kid. All of a sudden you found you had some esteem. What do you know? We all know you're stupid.
@kax61 Well, I'm not going to stop you from purchasing all of those wonderful records. My intellelligence is indeed quite limited, whenever I notice what people are capable of.
It's called genius. Very few are fortunate to gain that title, but all the innovators of 12-tone and total serialism have earned it. The entire second Viennese school, Boulez, Babbit, Stockhausen, all geniuses.
I can now say that I absolutely don't know what is the real purpose of music. If somebody could give me an answer, I would be very grateful, thank you
Well I thought it would rather be combination of sound and silence; but again, what is it's purpose? I agree that it doesn't need any adjectives and banal descriptions, but I think that it must have a purpose, and I don't know what it is. Communication?
@moonscore Miles Davis actually said in an interview that while he writing "Bitches Brew" the only thing he was listening to was Stockhausen. I'm sure he probably wasn't the only one.
@drumier You should read the blurb in Robin Maconie's book "The Works of Karlheinz Stockhausen." Page 22 says: "Stockhausen may be aiming at the effect of a jazz-ensemble 'break', though without jazz's basic framework of repetitive patterns over a regular beat. But to evoke jazz's sense of communal excitement was no easy task. Classically-trained performers were not then used to listening to each other..." (In my opinion, they still don't listen - especially in orchestras.)
nunca estuvé de acuerdo con el serialismo integral, pero Stockhausen era de una inteligencia sublime, Los parametros para Kreuzspiel son maravillosos y el resultado de una gran poética,
It certainly doesn't serve the traditional function of music? What is this traditional function you speak of? Sounds as though you've created a generalization and deemed it universal.
Enjoy it or not, there are those who do, and who find much relevance in Stockhausen.
The thing about "generalizations" is that they are general and generally intended to be universal. You are not arguing against his point so much as simply restating it in a manner so as to belittle him into thinking his ideas are uncultured, when he has, in fact, raised a very valid point...that to the general populace, the purpose and 'delicacy' of this "art" would be inaudible. If the OP had not specifically stated that the notes switched between octaves, I would never have heard it.
It certainly doesn't serve the traditional function of music. Just imagine if you go a concert listening to this stuff, how would you feel afterwards? Maybe I'm thick, but I just don't get the aesthetics of it. I listen to quite a lot of 20th century stuff like Boulez, Ligeti, Lutoslawski... which I think are pretty good. But guys like Stockhausen and Glass, etc., I don't get the point at all.
Digno!
BRUCEWERK 3 weeks ago
Stochausen is a lot of make belief. A so called intellectual on music affairs. Ultitmate garbage. Anyone endorsing this kinda make belief is an idiot.
kax61 1 month ago
@kax61 Fuck off. If you don't like it, what are you doing here?
MjoEm32 1 day ago
Stockhausen....the 'phenomenom' merely based on make belief. The Baghwan of modern day music. You pay....he's delivering nonsense.
kax61 1 month ago
great! thank you!
pabloorza 2 months ago
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10 justin bieber and 10 stockhausen song at the same time
/watch?v=xTiwpr7gcP8
andrewillis21 2 months ago
I enjoy the texture!
HectorAndresMayoral 3 months ago
sounds like a bunch of toddlers tripping over music instruments...
Hashpotato 4 months ago
More than beautiful !
A lot of thanks
123must 5 months ago
too sick
therealb3yond 5 months ago
This guy was on the cover of Sgt.Pepper, and his influence has probably been as deep within some strains of rock music as in modern "art music" (aka classical music).
AngelicGunrunner 5 months ago
This makes me think of John Cage's statement - "the brilliance of non-organization". Truly BRILLIANT!
guitarphunk 6 months ago
@guitarphunk This piece is actually incredibly strictly organised using total serialism to control most elements of the music. It does sound quite random though.
DrivingGames 4 months ago
Change the name to "Curved Balls" and it would go down well in a jazz festival.
musoderelict 6 months ago
thanks for your uploads of this giant; high time I heard more of his work.
bbbartolo 6 months ago
lol what a load of shit
atheistrocker100 7 months ago
Interestingly enough, the static buzz in the ambience ADDS to the beauty of the music.
shrugo12 7 months ago
This composition strikes my senses. Like a Babinski hammer, waking up senses. Intriguing and Magnificent.
punkhh 8 months ago
In Brazil we have a word to describe songs like this one. The word is "Foda", which means "Damn Good" !
IsraelSilvaOficial 8 months ago
This is a beautiful composition and yes, this piece has modern jazz written all over it! Stockhausen's music gives one a deeper perspective to all music! If all we ever eat is vanilla ice cream our concept of ice cream will be limited - that's a fact.
guitarphunk 8 months ago
seine lieder sind irgendwie...gruselig :D:D
Lyss454 8 months ago
first time I listen Stockhausen. It seems to me this songs is great.. I meen, it´s absolutely not a bullshit - radio hits song as Madonna o Lady Gaga but I do not like it at all... anyway: great Stockhausen! ....this is fucking strange song.
VRN31 8 months ago
interessant
TektonicRichy 8 months ago
Man ohh man. I listened to the whole thing. Feels like such an accomplishment.
eduardo13rocha 9 months ago
Sounds a heck of a lot like the "Shadow Temple" music from Ocarina of Time. 0_o
WheresPoochie 9 months ago 7
crap
Hector18021987 11 months ago
@Hector18021987 are you talking about yourself?
TheEdgarvarese12 1 month ago
HO CAN U HEAR SOMETHING DIFFERENT TO THIS, IM SO GLAD I FOUND STOCKHAUSEN. HIS MUSIC IS SUPER FREE AND HAS SUCH A POSITIVE VIBE IT'S BEAUTIFUL, IT IS TRUTH , IT 'S GOODNESS!!!
pcpablo7 1 year ago 3
I absolutley love the creepy lonely feeling this gives me n_n
bxxch10 1 year ago
Jack Kerouac set to music.
acapps99 1 year ago
Like a dream. Beautiful
Bagas 1 year ago
@NewMusicXX can i use this in a film i am making? i'll put the song in the credits.
ikbengoed1223 1 year ago
Who is the performer in this recording?
skripulka 1 year ago
ovo neko tesko sranje...
pre strasno
:0
wwc300 1 year ago
This is a very early example of serial techniques being applied to musical parameters other than pitch. I believe Milton Babbitt may have beaten Stockhausen to the punch with his 3 Compositions for Piano (1947). Nonetheless, the work is masterful in its complex hexachordal rotations and serialization of register, dynamics, and durations (thanks partially to his mentor Olivier Messiaen).
dcrepino 1 year ago
its possible you know more about music than i do but your foolish enough to display your cultural ignorance publicly so its not very likely that opinion adds up to much. there is no scale on which stockhausen can be further away than bach. you talk nonsense. first try to understand then try to be understood.
medianode 1 year ago
I want this to be played when i'm being born
psychopathtoine 1 year ago 19
@psychopathtoine Wow.
TheFrancisJames 1 year ago
@psychopathtoine Okay. I'll just go start up my DeLorean DMC-12 and bring with me a recording of this song.
I'm going to need information on your birth date and place, as well as your name.
Not only do I need to know when to GO, but I also need to know what kind of recording device would be appropriate for the time period.
shrugo12 7 months ago
@psychopathtoine love your comment man! love stockhausen's music!!! this is wonderful
natolinas 5 months ago
Does anyone know if this is the first movement of the piece? If it's all of the movements, does anyone know where in the recording does the first movement end? I need to know for my history exam.
ivana90ify 1 year ago
I respect him for making something... uhh... original... but god, this is just agony for the ears. Makes me want to put a bullet through my brain.
TheySayImNasty 1 year ago
@TheySayImNasty but the true essence of it is the rhtythm, i couldn't keep tempo to this or messiaen....and i thought animals as leaders, and chimp spanner were hard to keep tempo to!
xxxslayerxxx666 1 year ago
So glad Modernism is over.
muslit 1 year ago
@muslit enjoy postmodernism
TheEdgarvarese12 1 month ago
who in hell can like this ?
billiejoeamstrong 1 year ago
@billiejoeamstrong I like this you go and listen Michael Jackson, this music isn't for you
TheEdgarvarese12 1 month ago
omg this makes me sick xD
I will play it at the end of my next house party when people shall go home :)
really! experimental is nice but this is .. ahh :>
adrenerg 1 year ago 2
Yay!!! I remember this from my 7th birthday party! :)
Great days...
*goes back to the cellar*
chulk607 1 year ago
What a recording!!!
123Mars 1 year ago
We analyzed this in my theory class. It wasn't all that difficult to dissect actually.
BachRocks314 1 year ago
@BachRocks314 What did you find out?
zunaic 1 year ago
@zunaic Sorry for such a delayed response, zunaic. As far as what I found out, basically the most of what occurs in the piece is determined by a sort of criss-cross kind of procedure involved a series. One of the main differences between what Stockhausen does in this "total serial" work vs. what Boulez does in his "total serial" work Structures 1a is that Stockhausen applies serial rotation rather than transposition.
BachRocks314 1 year ago
@zunaic Also, it must be mentioned that this only applies for the first movement of the piece. We didn't analyze the other portions, so I'm assuming that what goes on in those is less systematic. If you'd like to know more what I mean, you can check out Robert Morgan's excellent analysis in his "Twentieth-Century Music" anthology published by W.W. Norton. Make sure it's the anthology and not the music history of his published under the same title.
BachRocks314 1 year ago
This is my favourite Stockhausen piece. I think John Zorn took alot from this in the early game pieces.
DanielMcDrtcomposer 1 year ago
I get the idea of this composition, but I can't regard this as music. It's seems to be more of... a game to me, if you understand what I mean. It's like; "You hit that note, and then the oboe takes it, and then you have to get down to the low octav on the piano, and then the percussion comes in, and then back to the high octave.."
A kind of instrument game, but what comes out is not music. Not to my ears anyway :/ But i appreciate that he dares to experiment and create something completely new.
FantasyDessi 1 year ago
hmm don't like it too much. think it's because it's too static for me. lacks a bit of "intuitive" spirit.. inspiring at least.
evererterez 1 year ago
@evererterez Static in what way? Certainly, the rhythm and meter is not static. Perhaps it is not the piece that lacks "intuitive spirit" - especially because a musical work in a vacuum is really a neutral object. But when put through the filter of a human mind that lacks "intuitive spirit," it might appear that way. Perhaps your "intuition" has really been eliminated by your education and experience that sets up for you certain expectations and you now only hear stasis and value it negatively.
DerangedRanger1 1 year ago
@DerangedRanger1 Rhythm and meter don't sound.. Of course, I refer to my "filter". Otherwise, we couldn't talk about music and sound. By intuition, I mean psychological quality (-> pop music, commercials, non-serial music), not necessarily art or innovation. The lack of psychological quality is reflected in some of the comments here. Fundamental questions about art and music..
evererterez 1 year ago
@evererterez Rhythm and meter DO sound. Every accent you hear is a part of it. Every time you hear something louder at a time/space where you might not expect it, there is even a word for it: "syncopation." You should also refer to a dictionary before using a word like "intuition" - why are you making stuff up? It is ok not to like something, but this music is important to some people or t wouldn't be here. You don't understand it and you don't like it, so leave it alone or make an effort.
DerangedRanger1 1 year ago
@evererterez The more I think about your statement "rhythm and meter don't sound", the more ridiculous it sounds. What you are suggesting is that time is not a part of music, but it seems to me that, at the very least, music is a dividing up of time and the insertion of events into time blocks. Since rhythm and meter have to do with time, there might be NO sound if they did were not there. If you disbelieve, listen to "Kontakte" Moment X, where pitch is converted to rhythm.
DerangedRanger1 1 year ago
@DerangedRanger1 hmm rhythm doesn't sound at all. It's a measure, a tool to divide time "objectively" so that musicians can be synchronized. It's definitely not sound.
evererterez 1 year ago
@DerangedRanger1 silent rhythm is possible too, why not? -> 4.33
evererterez 1 year ago
@evererterez But what did John Cage say about silence? He said that there is none. 4'33" proved it. So did his venture into the anechoic chamber.
DerangedRanger1 1 year ago
@DerangedRanger1 Beautifully articulated. I don't think the problem is necessarily that the average, modern listener is lacking a musically intuitive spirit completely. Perhaps it is that their concept of intuition is focused into more narrow channels?
moonscore 1 year ago
@moonscore Intuition as evertenez seems to have it means: what I understand easily. This probably has more to do with the limits of his cultural experience and education. It is sad - he actually comes from a country that cares about arts (according to his profile). I wonder how the average American - whose education is unconcerned with languages and arts (for communication, creativity and critical thought) math and science (for bomb making) - would fare.
DerangedRanger1 1 year ago
@DerangedRanger1 Am I getting intellectually downgraded by you because I am not a huge admirer of Stockhausen's work? I like Nono, Ligeti, Cerha, Boulez etc a lot. In their music, I find "intuition". There are still people (like you?), looking down to those stupid ones who won't understand. but why? music is not a language, hence it doesn't give exact information which could be misinterpreted. A video explains my point of view; search for: hape kerkeling hurz
evererterez 1 year ago
@evererterez If you feel yourself getting intellectually downgraded, then I suggest that you rethink your arguments. I don't about your personal tastes, only your justifications for them. Instead of trying to justify them with futile arguments, how about just say: "I don't like it" and move on rather than try to convince other people that your taste is superior by putting their music down as not "intuitive." What is intuitive is subjectively determined - as are your tastes.
DerangedRanger1 1 year ago
@DerangedRanger1 alright. -> "This probably has more to do with the limits of his cultural experience and education. It is sad - he actually comes from a country that cares about arts (according to his profile)"
Please don't extrapolate from my opinion to the cultural status of the country I live in. Stockhausen is in fact very popular among my colleagues and teachers. And his popularity is growing rapidly. He is probably going to be the "new Bach" of electronic music.
evererterez 1 year ago
@evererterez i think miles davis is to groove orientated music what bach is to melodic music. stockhausen seems to me to be somehwre in between. in fairness i have no idea what electronic music sounds like produced by people who apply academic principles to it having studied contemporary. probably less of a pulse than anything you could conceivably dance to.
medianode 1 year ago
@medianode
I'm sorry but you have little to no idea what you're saying. Stockhausen is absulutely nowhere in between Miles and Bach. Stockhausens music is usually even farther away from Bach than Mile's. Also Bach was fairly conventional melodically, whilst miles was not conventional with grooves. Therefore saying that Miles is to groove as Bach is to melody is already fallacious. To say that Stockhausen is in between a fallacy might perhaps make sense though.
intervalkid 1 year ago
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@DerangedRanger1 Beautifully articulated. I don't think the problem is necessarily that the average, modern listener is lacking a musically intuitive spirit completely. Perhaps it is that their concept of intuition is focused into more narrow channels?
moonscore 1 year ago
This wears me the fuck out.
Megajosh2 1 year ago
now, this shit is completely brilliant
iwannabeyourdog1969 1 year ago
It's quite rare to see real pulse in atonal music, and it's probably why this piece works so well after all those years.
ajamot 1 year ago
@ajamot Well...I hear and feel the pulses more than see them...but regardless, Stockhausen, Robin Maconie noted that Stockhausen had an "aversion to music with a continuous periodic beat" because, as Stockhausen says: "This periodic beat...makes people march without knowing it." He was born in 1933 and grew up through the Nazi period and his father was forced to be in the party, according to Maconie.
DerangedRanger1 1 year ago
brilliant!
creativeresult 1 year ago
I'm a classically trained musician, and I've got to say...
BOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRIIIIIIING
steesalt 1 year ago
@steesalt I too am classically trained. One of the problems I have with most other classical musicians is their lack of curiosity. I was playing a duo for double bass and violin called "Together" on my masters recital. When my violinist had problems and I had to look for a new one, he said "Good luck. Not everyone is curious like you." I wound up changing the recital date rather than changing violinists. Have fun playing the greatest hits of the 19th c. over and over to the same elitists.
DerangedRanger1 1 year ago
This composition sounds like a bad episode of Scoobie Doo.
AnonymousWhitePerson 1 year ago
one thing you do not like the music is something else not understand
ivang97 1 year ago 3
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ivang97 1 year ago
Don't make me laugh.
Get ahold of yourself please!
saintvingt 1 year ago
This is like the paintings of Rothko set to music.
AnonymousWhitePerson 2 years ago
This is beautifully fragmented and arcane.
AnonymousWhitePerson 2 years ago
: )
Knockout9024x 2 years ago
I personally don't like serial music, but you can learn something about possibilities of using elements in less complex and more audible way.
K0MP0NIST 2 years ago
Stockhausen has an important place in the history of music. Thanks a lot for useful information posted during the video.
0707NicePlayer 2 years ago 14
The more I listen to this music the better I understand how profound it really is. In Stockhausen's music silence plays a big role and at times the silence is so provocative. I admire the musicians for a truly outstanding performance here. The Kreuzspiel is not as emotional as his e.g. Klavierstuck IX, nevertheless, it gives me goose bumps every time I listen to it. Thank you again for uploading this music. This message is for Mandelblueten: I love you wherever you are
Neishapour 2 years ago 4
@Neishapour einsturzende neubauten made an interesting work about silence...."silence is sexy"
KanzerSkud 1 year ago
awesome image.
RIP302 2 years ago 3
the comment YOU are disturbed is directed towards RIP302.
THANK YOU LAURION69. I am glad you agree.
Mandelblueten 2 years ago
As Paul Griffiths mentioned in his book, this piece is significantly influenced by Jazz.
chikashimiyama 2 years ago
Dogs are reported to yell and cry in experiments when classical music is played. Theyre brain does not understand the complexity of the compilation of sounds in this specialised human order. Its the same with most people concering contemporary music. They simply are not trained to understand this complexity and consider it to be garbage.
Music itself, thats become clear during the last century, is a relative definition of different people.
And @ Ricercata: God does in fact not exist.
verfelscht 2 years ago
A good example of point music influenced by Messiaen and Goeyvaerts. It is a beautiful and original composition by the composer Much in permutational serialism style. Please restrain from passing a negative judgment after first hearing this music because later, when you start liking it, you might feel pretty bad about your initial reaction.
Neishapour 2 years ago
it's not negative judgement, the comment section is available to leave one's opinion
I don't think I will ever feel bad about my initial reaction, it is disturbing, and a disgrace to music.
Mandelblueten 2 years ago
I agree regarding the Comment Section. Also appreciate that you have taken time to listen to Kreuzspiel. I assume curiosity brought you to the Cross Game and freedom of spirit prompted leaving comments; all attributes of a dynamic mind as a static mind, like stagnant water is susceptible to decline. Music is sound that can communicate that which cannot be spoken. In that sense it is a powerful language. One has to get exposed to it and learn it before one could appreciate it. Do U agree?
Neishapour 2 years ago 4
each piano note penetrated right trough my soul
gusgusgusimgus 2 years ago
anyone who can't find anything in this music should just shut the fuck up.
If you can't understand it and/or at LEAST appreciate it then you are an ignorant fuck and make the rest of us fans/musicians alike look worse than the garbage you've already shaped our image into.
RIP302 2 years ago 4
THIS DUDE IS DISTURBED! AND SO ARE YOU.
Mandelblueten 2 years ago
You don't even know me. Who are you to call what is or isn't music? Just because I find artistic value in the music doesn't make me crazy, I think the fact you wish to control everyones mind and tell THEM what they should or shouldn't do is fucking crazy.
Get off your high horse, you're not as important as you must think you are. We're going to keep listening to this music, even if it means [being able to comprehend art] we're crazy because of it.
RIP302 2 years ago 2
@Mandelblueten you are talking to me? you better go and listen to rap, that's the music for idiots like you, and don't write any more comments on classical music to respect yourself and not to express all your stupidity, you ignorant idiot!
TheEdgarvarese12 1 month ago
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Now this is the kind of crap that even well known musicians claim to have been influenced by. It's like music academics who admire the emperor's new clothes. If this guy would be alive today I'd tell him to feck off...right after I had smashed all of his "valuable, historic" recording equipment.
kax61 2 years ago
actually you'd probably do nothing and continue to be a musical luddite with the intellect of a ball of mud whose opinion is of absolutely no import to any person on planet earth. cheers.
lemoneater88 2 years ago
@kax61 go get a life
TheEdgarvarese12 1 month ago
@TheEdgarvarese12 Hahahaha.....now, come on. These are plain sounds to suit pretentious snobs like yourself. People who regard this as some piece of "art", well in a way it's like the emperor's new clothes. In fact, we all know this is utter nonsense. These are the kinda sounds that make people to decide to end their lives by jumping of high buildings.
kax61 1 month ago
@kax61 I've been listening to this music and I know lot of people listening to this music and none of them jumped of any high building to end their lives, neither have I. If you really think it's just collection of plain sounds tell me which is the music which contains "unplain sounds", and tell me what is the difference between them. It's good that you have heard the story about emperor's new clothes, but I don't think your intelligence goes any further than that.
TheEdgarvarese12 1 month ago
@kax61 it's human psyche that when someone doesn't understand something he/she thinks that others are just pretending that they understand. Good luck with your intelligence
TheEdgarvarese12 1 month ago
@TheEdgarvarese12 Hey boy, you've always been aware you've been a no good kid. All of a sudden you found you had some esteem. What do you know? We all know you're stupid.
kax61 1 month ago
@kax61 of course you can't argue and you start some bullshit, now fuck off I'v had enough of your stupidity.
TheEdgarvarese12 1 month ago
@TheEdgarvarese12 You bet I can argue....you know you lack the a lot. Get lost in your snob music......Stockhausen. Music for snobs.
kax61 1 month ago
@kax61 Well, I'm not going to stop you from purchasing all of those wonderful records. My intellelligence is indeed quite limited, whenever I notice what people are capable of.
kax61 1 month ago
somebody please explain this to me and how this could possibly be made that long ago
stpcreepstp 2 years ago
Please tell us what is so uncomprensible
NandoBotia 2 years ago
It's called genius. Very few are fortunate to gain that title, but all the innovators of 12-tone and total serialism have earned it. The entire second Viennese school, Boulez, Babbit, Stockhausen, all geniuses.
andrewbareham 2 years ago 3
I can now say that I absolutely don't know what is the real purpose of music. If somebody could give me an answer, I would be very grateful, thank you
JWM0987 2 years ago
Music exists when a sound is produced and then dies. It needs no adjectives like:emotions,sensations,colors,classical,pop, good,bad,etc.
musiquecontemporaine 2 years ago 3
Well I thought it would rather be combination of sound and silence; but again, what is it's purpose? I agree that it doesn't need any adjectives and banal descriptions, but I think that it must have a purpose, and I don't know what it is. Communication?
JWM0987 2 years ago
It's purpose is the enjoyment of the creator of the music.
andrewbareham 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Music exists when sounds produce beauty.
Sounds in themeselves are not enought to make music, like it happens in this horrible crap..
laurion69 2 years ago
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Well said Laurion.
revoltz7 2 years ago
The fact that laurion's post had three thumbs up at the time of my arrival on this video proves in fact that God does not exist.
MusicaRicercata 2 years ago 3
THANK YOU SOOO MUCH! very well said!!! horrible crap is the perfect description! 2 THUMBS up!!!
Mandelblueten 2 years ago
@laurion69 when you say "horrible crap" are you referring to yourself?
TheEdgarvarese12 1 month ago
Awkwardly close to Jazz.
Kedislol 2 years ago
Errm... 1951...More like modern Jazz is awkwardly close to this.
moonscore 2 years ago 8
@moonscore Stockhausen was a jazz pianist.
DerangedRanger1 1 year ago
@moonscore Miles Davis actually said in an interview that while he writing "Bitches Brew" the only thing he was listening to was Stockhausen. I'm sure he probably wasn't the only one.
fieldej104705 9 months ago
I love doing some writing to this kind of music. Stockhausen and Cage's prepared piano pieces both set the perfect mood to get some ideas out.
ctsk8er1 2 years ago
Where can I get this? I need to download this and Gesang Der Junglinge.
bassmanUSSR 2 years ago
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beautiful music. makes me want to commit suicide. It's so inspiring :P
jorenbourn 2 years ago
Don't do it! ;-)
revions 2 years ago
This type of music you really need to understand where it comes from before listening to it.
MattiasXL 2 years ago 2
when asked in downbeat magazine,miles davis said i listen to stockhausen only stockhausen.
i think this piece is a model for bitches brew. there miles used bass clarinet, soprano sax, three percussionists etc.
drumier 2 years ago 16
That's a very good observation, one I had not considered. I think there might be something to it!
NewMusicXX 2 years ago 3
@drumier You should read the blurb in Robin Maconie's book "The Works of Karlheinz Stockhausen." Page 22 says: "Stockhausen may be aiming at the effect of a jazz-ensemble 'break', though without jazz's basic framework of repetitive patterns over a regular beat. But to evoke jazz's sense of communal excitement was no easy task. Classically-trained performers were not then used to listening to each other..." (In my opinion, they still don't listen - especially in orchestras.)
DerangedRanger1 1 year ago
@drumier Wow. That makes sense.
TheFrancisJames 1 year ago
@drumier That makes sense. Interesting.
TheFrancisJames 1 year ago
@drumier yea i was just reading that interview stockhausen is a motherfucker
MissAmandaAnn 11 months ago
A masterpiece. One of the most interesting piece i've heard from Stockhausen.
PoesSoul7 2 years ago 4
makes me feel such a pleasure.. freedom.. like i m flying
oceanlai 2 years ago 3
is this an excerpt of the work?
geheimnisvolle 2 years ago 2
The work runs slightly over ten minutes.
NewMusicXX 2 years ago
oh... :(
geheimnisvolle 2 years ago
@geheimnisvolle I used to play in an orchestra with a guy who would always said: "Play it fast and we can get out of here earlier."
DerangedRanger1 1 year ago
nunca estuvé de acuerdo con el serialismo integral, pero Stockhausen era de una inteligencia sublime, Los parametros para Kreuzspiel son maravillosos y el resultado de una gran poética,
ratara12 2 years ago 4
trés juste ... la section centrale est d'une trés grande poésie ... interprétation de trés haut niveau.
MrRaph87 2 years ago
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ResurrectedProdigal 2 years ago
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ResurrectedProdigal 2 years ago
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ResurrectedProdigal 2 years ago
One of my favourite KS pieces! It's just brilliant
GreggaryPeccary 2 years ago 4
It certainly doesn't serve the traditional function of music? What is this traditional function you speak of? Sounds as though you've created a generalization and deemed it universal.
Enjoy it or not, there are those who do, and who find much relevance in Stockhausen.
marychrison 2 years ago
As already explained, what I mean by the traditional function of music is to go to a concert listening to this stuff...
I don't mean to criticize. Sometimes you listen to music and you think you don't understand it at all. There could be all sorts of reasons.
vincecharus 2 years ago
The thing about "generalizations" is that they are general and generally intended to be universal. You are not arguing against his point so much as simply restating it in a manner so as to belittle him into thinking his ideas are uncultured, when he has, in fact, raised a very valid point...that to the general populace, the purpose and 'delicacy' of this "art" would be inaudible. If the OP had not specifically stated that the notes switched between octaves, I would never have heard it.
ninjaphobos 2 years ago
What's the point of this stuff?
It certainly doesn't serve the traditional function of music. Just imagine if you go a concert listening to this stuff, how would you feel afterwards? Maybe I'm thick, but I just don't get the aesthetics of it. I listen to quite a lot of 20th century stuff like Boulez, Ligeti, Lutoslawski... which I think are pretty good. But guys like Stockhausen and Glass, etc., I don't get the point at all.
vincecharus 3 years ago
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You need to be really really really HIGH to get this stuff.
binzing 2 years ago
Thanx I'll try.
vincecharus 2 years ago
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doesn't sound like music at all..
R4L1989 3 years ago
define music.
gd9988 3 years ago 3
Stockhausen was a great musician.
isaacdelaconcha 3 years ago 5
i am playing this at the moment... it's a very ..... different ^^
GALACTICA08 3 years ago
great !
thank you for posting !
and also a good idea to show stockhausen explanations in the photo.... :-)
rhizom123 3 years ago