Thank you for posting this tongue in cheek defense for the arts. As working artists, WE all need to support each other in NOT playing for free. Money is Energy. I'm constantly asked to perform for free. There is a value to what we do.
So you want high quality sound, inspiring backgrounds, and professional talent yet you use xtranormal to produce your video, rather then hire real talented animators, professional voice overs, or even upgrade to get kitten puppets. My animations don't have that either, but you could of recorded the signers with a cheap mic and merged with the xtranormal characters and it probably would of went viral allowing you join the partner program, and put the down the song on link.
As the founder of a small 11 year old nonprofit art and performance space, I loved this! As one of our Board members said, "It made me laugh and cry (well not really but you get the point) at the same time!"
I don't think it makes anyone look stupid. People are often oblivious to the real costs of producing a work of art. This is very apt, very funny and kind of necessary. Thanks.
THIS is what has always been wrong with the music 'business'. Fans don't know that the stuff they listen to and enjoy costs money. BTW...TV show appearances by big acts often don't get paid. It's a promotional appearance that may or may not help them -- TV shows only work if fans come to the show and buy tickets and souvenirs.
Octarium.... way to use a little humor to voice frustration. As a fellow artist, I can relate. There are many ways to do things. Not all are expensive, but not all are high quality and actually pay the artists. Until you have been run a non-profit and producing works, written grants, and fundraised, it is easy to say we exaggerate! It is more than a full time job and artists in all facets of the art deserve to be respected. There is nothing like live performance. It should be supported.
I work for a non-profit arts group, and, the bottom line is: if you're gonna stay afloat, you've got to start thinking like business people. It's called REALITY. There are only so many donations available, and "lay people" will normally choose to donate to charities that support the physical demands of the population.
If you have an arts group that doesn't sell a lot of CDs or tickets, maybe the demand for choral groups is low, and you should do your arts "job" to supplement your day-job.
Beware measuring things' worth by what the public will/can pay for them. Mass-markets reduce demand 4 the finest things, which can't compete w/the relentless promulgation of cheap crap. Tastes are educable and do elevate, provided that artists w/expertise are supported in reaching a public. Only full-time practice and dedication forms artists capable of sustaining an art form. Force us all into independently lucrative day jobs and you'll soon live in a grim fucking world.
@ViardotVSGrisi All portions of this video are tongue-in-cheek, including what the nonprofit arts promoter says. The video is intended to point out the frequent disconnect between arts nonprofits and their potential donors. It is in no way intended to be a usable script for soliciting donations.
@TheOctarium I understand that this is the purpose, but we all know what's up with all of these videos. One party is trying to make the other one feel stupid. Its clever, but to a point. Im sure the other bear is just asking all of those questions to piss the other bear off. Things get hilarious if you look at it that way. I do hope they come up with a version with kittens...
My intent is not to make anyone feel stupid; my intent is to illustrate "the disjunct between the non-profit arts funding model and the general public's understanding of the economics involved in creating non-commerical art in this country," as Chloe Veltman so wisely put it in her blog "Lies Like Truth." The public doesn't understand what we do and we just keep repeating our mission and vision and not saying anything. It's a two-sided problem.
@yis2 The actual costs of physically producing a CD are, in fact, low. But that does not include studio time and/or venue time (ie a church for a classical recording), mechanical and digital rights, the hours of engineering time mixing and, of course, paying the singers.
@TheOctarium You are absolutely correct. The cost of the physical disk and packaging can be low depending on the quantity. It is everything else that makes the disk expensive.
@yis2 I think you are unfairly picking out one aspect of this video's message. Besides, most CDs are not produced in China. They are produced in the USofA.
@TheOctarium You are absolutely correct. The cost of the physical disk and packaging can be low depending on the quantity. It is everything else that makes the disk expensive.
@yis2 I think you are unfairly picking out one aspect of this video's message. Besides, most CDs are not produced in China. They are produced in the USofA.
@TheOctarium You are absolutely correct. The cost of the physical disk and packaging can be low depending on the quantity. It is everything else that makes the disk expensive.
@TheOctarium I hope you guys can be paid for all the work that you do, although I do not support the sale of recorded music. It's not good for the public arts.
Depending on the project, the LEAST amount of money I have spent on a CD recording for my choir (non-paid and non-profit) is $10,000. That basically covers the costs of the recording engineer, the venue, the studio editing and mixing time, artwork design for the CD cover and printing of the booklet, music licensing fees, purchasing and registering bar code. The smallest cost is the CD reproduction itself, but most of the money is already spent before that time.
@yis2 producing the music to go on the CD is extremely expensive if it is to be done well because it is extremely time consuming and involves a fairly large number of very talented and experienced artists (including the producers) who all want to eat as well. I for one am sick of the attitude of "oh, but you LIKE playing - isn't it like your hobby?" Yeah - I have spent two degrees and hundreds of hours honing that skill - now I'd like more than your appreciation if you want my music.
Maybe responding to "starving children in Africa" by saying something like, "and you should donate to those causes you care about, but that does not negate the fact that in order for our non-profit arts group to function, we need revenue. So, sorry, we can't just give you a ticket to our show because you like us." Not to be all serious and stuff. Just a suggestion.
@pelespen I agree. The "feeding the soul is as important as feeding the stomach" line was lampooning some of the arguments I've heard for the arts that do not work. The difficulty with all of this is positioning the arts in a way that they can compete, for lack of a better word, with other nonprofits; the ones that make that "tangible" difference for which donors search.
I wish I had the clear answer for how to best position the arts; but I don't. I don't think any of us do.
For someone who has been a musician, artist, writer, composer, and sometimes actress throughout her life, I was surprised to find that I can't just jump on the "OMG THIS" bandwagon here. I think I was turned off by the statement "feeding the soul is as important as feeding the stomach." No, it's not. That's a poor argument that ultimately works against the person fighting for the arts non-profit, because it can come across sounding selfish and so wrapped up in the arts as to be irrational. cont-
@pelespen Feeding the soul IS as important as feeding the stomach. Consider the important role the arts played in the Ghettos and Concentration Camps of the Holocaust. Herbert Zipper formed an orchestra to give secret concerts in Dachau.
When the children complain that they're to hungry to sing in Alina Kentof's Dr. Yanush Korczak, Stepha says, "We all are! That is why we must sing. It will feel better if you do. Now remember, sing loud, so your voices can be heard in Heaven!"
I know there are a lot of legitimately poor folks out there who really enjoy live arts performances, and ideally I'd prefer that all arts should be free. But unfortunately, I've been in groups that went under BECAUSE we let too many people in for free and couldn't afford to hold up the costs of renting the space and equipment, etc. even when we worked really hard with no pay.
These people just have NO IDEA how much it takes to put on a performance!
I just Paypal-ed you a little thank-you dough for the painfully true hilarity. Looking forward to your next installment, wherein internal stakeholders demand to know why you haven't doubled your audience through "branding."
Pretty crazy conversation...but it probably goes on everyday......what is amazing about these videos is that they can be done in any world language....... :-)
Unfortunately as an arts manager I have not only had to have this kind of conversation with audience members but with 90% of new Board Members who believe that arts organizations only need to be "run like a business" to turn a profit, not understanding that the arts have been subsidized by governments. "My sister's cousin's Facebook friend that will make a donation" sounded particularly familar.
Like, I totally get this and stuff, it's really important to support the arts and this is a great example of how frustrating and annoying people can be about making donations to support the arts, BUT I seriously cannot STOP laughing at the cute little kitty cats talking in these NOT AT ALL fitting voices, and having a very SERIOUS conversation. It’s just a little TOO weird, lol.
My non-profit rarely get contributions from US since we are NOT 501c3 - it would cost more than we have received so far to become registered in the US. Also to get a "stamp of approval" here in NL costs more than we can afford. It is such a pain to be in a chicken/egg situation. If we were big, we could much easier raise large amounts, now we cannot even raise 4 figures for an exhibition...
Atlantis guy is so right! I'm a singer-songwriter and the pay is lousy - and I get that "your talent is a gift from God so you should give it willingly" crap all the time. My "talent" also has included countless hours of practice, a college degree in Music/ Theatre, and dozens of charity benefit gigs over the years. i mean, hey, would you ask a CPA to do your taxes for free because his math skills are a "gift" so he should give it willingly?
Give free tickets because there's no way to support every band you like--and we're just doing it for the joy? Well! Since there's no way to patronize/support every restaurant in town, should you get free meals, too? And I guess we should start giving free tickets to NFL games because you can't support all the local sports teams, and the guys are just playing for the fun of it. Should you demand free medical advice from a doctor you meet at a party because doctors "like to help people?"
"Give the guy free tickets"...after all, there is no way to support every band they like.
And how do these small chamber ensembles, choirs, and new music presenters survive? Yes, MOST professional musicians do this so "you can enjoy the music." But if they can't survive on smiles and applause.
The last part is right on: People drop hundreds - thousands - of dollars on overpriced lattes at Starbucks, but give this sndalcmy excuse when asked to donate a token amount to make art-music possible.
I have to say this video is pretty spot on to how fundraising goes when trying to explain the needs of the symphony or the science centers I work for. It is really hard to argue a case for support against health and poverty issues. But we have to keep trying and be thankful for the patrons that will still come out even if they can't make a side donation. It blows peoples minds sometimes when we explain that ticket sales dont cover all costs.
Can I have some complimentary tickets? I'll write a honest review of your music and submit it to the local newspapers/magazines after the show! :P
The point of the matter is this, with the saturation of the arts swirling around us, there is no possible way for someone to possibly support every band/group they come across and like... Especially in a world economy like now...
Give the guy free tickets so he can enjoy your music... Isnt that why you do this? For people to enjoy your gift?
@sndalcmy Sure, we do it for people to enjoy our gift/art/whatever. But that doesn't mean the performers shouldn't be paid for it. If we handed out free tickets to every person who asked for them, the group would not make enough money to stay afloat. I mean... really... did you even bother to pay attention during the video? Sheesh.
If not for the synthetic speech, I would've thought it was a verbatim transcription. It's so true it aches. From the fact of it and because it's so damn funny.
Bahhahha! "Oh, you're a non-profit! Does my donation help children in Africa?"
Many people just have no clue what it takes to produce performances. Is this our fault as arts organizations? Do we need to be more transparent? Or invite the public to see a little more behind the scenes?
This has been flagged as spam show
SO MUCH SHIT IN MY MOUTH
Lefty16900 4 months ago
Thank you for posting this tongue in cheek defense for the arts. As working artists, WE all need to support each other in NOT playing for free. Money is Energy. I'm constantly asked to perform for free. There is a value to what we do.
CeciliaStKing 8 months ago
@CeciliaStKing Thank you, thank you, thank you. I thought I was the only musician who thought like this!
divajc 8 months ago
So you want high quality sound, inspiring backgrounds, and professional talent yet you use xtranormal to produce your video, rather then hire real talented animators, professional voice overs, or even upgrade to get kitten puppets. My animations don't have that either, but you could of recorded the signers with a cheap mic and merged with the xtranormal characters and it probably would of went viral allowing you join the partner program, and put the down the song on link.
grimview 10 months ago
As the founder of a small 11 year old nonprofit art and performance space, I loved this! As one of our Board members said, "It made me laugh and cry (well not really but you get the point) at the same time!"
2ndcitycouncil 10 months ago
This is horrible lmao
Xamata 10 months ago
I don't think it makes anyone look stupid. People are often oblivious to the real costs of producing a work of art. This is very apt, very funny and kind of necessary. Thanks.
TerryGreiss 11 months ago
THIS is what has always been wrong with the music 'business'. Fans don't know that the stuff they listen to and enjoy costs money. BTW...TV show appearances by big acts often don't get paid. It's a promotional appearance that may or may not help them -- TV shows only work if fans come to the show and buy tickets and souvenirs.
ramonlazotrio 1 year ago
dear commenters for this video.
Please get a life.
Love,
Adam
P.S. This is brilliant, Octarium!
amward 1 year ago 5
They aren't kittens? Dang it, fooled again.
ginaslittlejack 1 year ago
Octarium.... way to use a little humor to voice frustration. As a fellow artist, I can relate. There are many ways to do things. Not all are expensive, but not all are high quality and actually pay the artists. Until you have been run a non-profit and producing works, written grants, and fundraised, it is easy to say we exaggerate! It is more than a full time job and artists in all facets of the art deserve to be respected. There is nothing like live performance. It should be supported.
evodoors 1 year ago
this is hilarious. "i am not a mogul"
NRNTN 1 year ago
I work for a non-profit arts group, and, the bottom line is: if you're gonna stay afloat, you've got to start thinking like business people. It's called REALITY. There are only so many donations available, and "lay people" will normally choose to donate to charities that support the physical demands of the population.
If you have an arts group that doesn't sell a lot of CDs or tickets, maybe the demand for choral groups is low, and you should do your arts "job" to supplement your day-job.
myspychannel 1 year ago
@myspychannel
Beware measuring things' worth by what the public will/can pay for them. Mass-markets reduce demand 4 the finest things, which can't compete w/the relentless promulgation of cheap crap. Tastes are educable and do elevate, provided that artists w/expertise are supported in reaching a public. Only full-time practice and dedication forms artists capable of sustaining an art form. Force us all into independently lucrative day jobs and you'll soon live in a grim fucking world.
1hildegard 1 year ago
Some of the conversation in the comments can be used in a subsequent video. It sounds pretty much the same.
ThatDifferentDude 1 year ago
I work for a non-profit performing arts company. This is dead on! And you had me on the floor at "you can't sing to hungry kids and make it better."
thatorangehat 1 year ago
If you want people to attend more of your shows, Ethan, make sure The Bad Plus actually plays in all the states and doesn't skip Florida
BorisGaquere 1 year ago
this clever sarcastic attitude may get you more friends on facebook, but its not going to get you far when you go out begging for money.
ViardotVSGrisi 1 year ago
@ViardotVSGrisi All portions of this video are tongue-in-cheek, including what the nonprofit arts promoter says. The video is intended to point out the frequent disconnect between arts nonprofits and their potential donors. It is in no way intended to be a usable script for soliciting donations.
TheOctarium 1 year ago 8
@TheOctarium I understand that this is the purpose, but we all know what's up with all of these videos. One party is trying to make the other one feel stupid. Its clever, but to a point. Im sure the other bear is just asking all of those questions to piss the other bear off. Things get hilarious if you look at it that way. I do hope they come up with a version with kittens...
ViardotVSGrisi 1 year ago
@ViardotVSGrisi Those aren't kittens?
My intent is not to make anyone feel stupid; my intent is to illustrate "the disjunct between the non-profit arts funding model and the general public's understanding of the economics involved in creating non-commerical art in this country," as Chloe Veltman so wisely put it in her blog "Lies Like Truth." The public doesn't understand what we do and we just keep repeating our mission and vision and not saying anything. It's a two-sided problem.
TheOctarium 1 year ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Thats such bullshit!! Making CD and recording cost are extremely LOW. They're produce in China, i know, i make CD's and the art work....
yis2 1 year ago
@yis2 The actual costs of physically producing a CD are, in fact, low. But that does not include studio time and/or venue time (ie a church for a classical recording), mechanical and digital rights, the hours of engineering time mixing and, of course, paying the singers.
TheOctarium 1 year ago 19
@TheOctarium You are absolutely correct. The cost of the physical disk and packaging can be low depending on the quantity. It is everything else that makes the disk expensive.
@yis2 I think you are unfairly picking out one aspect of this video's message. Besides, most CDs are not produced in China. They are produced in the USofA.
sfchanticleer 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TheOctarium You are absolutely correct. The cost of the physical disk and packaging can be low depending on the quantity. It is everything else that makes the disk expensive.
@yis2 I think you are unfairly picking out one aspect of this video's message. Besides, most CDs are not produced in China. They are produced in the USofA.
sfchanticleer 1 year ago
@TheOctarium You are absolutely correct. The cost of the physical disk and packaging can be low depending on the quantity. It is everything else that makes the disk expensive.
sfchanticleer 1 year ago
@TheOctarium I hope you guys can be paid for all the work that you do, although I do not support the sale of recorded music. It's not good for the public arts.
realdoctormo 1 year ago
Depending on the project, the LEAST amount of money I have spent on a CD recording for my choir (non-paid and non-profit) is $10,000. That basically covers the costs of the recording engineer, the venue, the studio editing and mixing time, artwork design for the CD cover and printing of the booklet, music licensing fees, purchasing and registering bar code. The smallest cost is the CD reproduction itself, but most of the money is already spent before that time.
jbrough71 1 year ago
@yis2 Spot the guy who has no idea what he's talking about...
thedrumbum1990 1 year ago
@yis2 producing the music to go on the CD is extremely expensive if it is to be done well because it is extremely time consuming and involves a fairly large number of very talented and experienced artists (including the producers) who all want to eat as well. I for one am sick of the attitude of "oh, but you LIKE playing - isn't it like your hobby?" Yeah - I have spent two degrees and hundreds of hours honing that skill - now I'd like more than your appreciation if you want my music.
stefanielorimer 1 year ago 2
(continued from previous comment)
Maybe responding to "starving children in Africa" by saying something like, "and you should donate to those causes you care about, but that does not negate the fact that in order for our non-profit arts group to function, we need revenue. So, sorry, we can't just give you a ticket to our show because you like us." Not to be all serious and stuff. Just a suggestion.
pelespen 1 year ago
@pelespen I agree. The "feeding the soul is as important as feeding the stomach" line was lampooning some of the arguments I've heard for the arts that do not work. The difficulty with all of this is positioning the arts in a way that they can compete, for lack of a better word, with other nonprofits; the ones that make that "tangible" difference for which donors search.
I wish I had the clear answer for how to best position the arts; but I don't. I don't think any of us do.
TheOctarium 1 year ago
For someone who has been a musician, artist, writer, composer, and sometimes actress throughout her life, I was surprised to find that I can't just jump on the "OMG THIS" bandwagon here. I think I was turned off by the statement "feeding the soul is as important as feeding the stomach." No, it's not. That's a poor argument that ultimately works against the person fighting for the arts non-profit, because it can come across sounding selfish and so wrapped up in the arts as to be irrational. cont-
pelespen 1 year ago
@pelespen Feeding the soul IS as important as feeding the stomach. Consider the important role the arts played in the Ghettos and Concentration Camps of the Holocaust. Herbert Zipper formed an orchestra to give secret concerts in Dachau.
When the children complain that they're to hungry to sing in Alina Kentof's Dr. Yanush Korczak, Stepha says, "We all are! That is why we must sing. It will feel better if you do. Now remember, sing loud, so your voices can be heard in Heaven!"
MrQscwdv179 1 year ago 2
Where do I send the check?
Mitamama 1 year ago 2
@Mitamama Seriously? Or as the kids say, srsly?
Octarium
6320 Brookside Plaza #163
Kansas City, MO 64113
Or look at the link above in the video description for online ways to donate (youtube won't let me post the links here)
TheOctarium 1 year ago
Thank you! This sums it up nicely.
I know there are a lot of legitimately poor folks out there who really enjoy live arts performances, and ideally I'd prefer that all arts should be free. But unfortunately, I've been in groups that went under BECAUSE we let too many people in for free and couldn't afford to hold up the costs of renting the space and equipment, etc. even when we worked really hard with no pay.
These people just have NO IDEA how much it takes to put on a performance!
abracadaverous 1 year ago
I just sent you a thank you for the brilliant video. Use it to pay Usher. Love from your friends at Cantus.
Cantuslark 1 year ago
@Cantuslark Thank you! So much! Usher can probably really use the money! ;)
TheOctarium 1 year ago
Oh, oh God...my funny bone.
I feel your pain, as I sit on the board for a non-profit theater company. Here's to doing what we love.
duckgalrox 1 year ago
I just Paypal-ed you a little thank-you dough for the painfully true hilarity. Looking forward to your next installment, wherein internal stakeholders demand to know why you haven't doubled your audience through "branding."
mschrisri 1 year ago 2
@mschrisri thank you! So much! If everyone who has watched this video gave five or ten bucks, we would be set for several seasons! ;)
TheOctarium 1 year ago
This is great!
tptboy1974 1 year ago
Comment removed
KYShakes 1 year ago
Hilarious, but unfortunately horrifically sad as well.
patterman 1 year ago
Pretty crazy conversation...but it probably goes on everyday......what is amazing about these videos is that they can be done in any world language....... :-)
jeannie1205 1 year ago
Unfortunately as an arts manager I have not only had to have this kind of conversation with audience members but with 90% of new Board Members who believe that arts organizations only need to be "run like a business" to turn a profit, not understanding that the arts have been subsidized by governments. "My sister's cousin's Facebook friend that will make a donation" sounded particularly familar.
SLKateMiranda 1 year ago
"Kanye West doesn't ask for a donation..." Superb.
Sprocketboy1956 1 year ago
Like, I totally get this and stuff, it's really important to support the arts and this is a great example of how frustrating and annoying people can be about making donations to support the arts, BUT I seriously cannot STOP laughing at the cute little kitty cats talking in these NOT AT ALL fitting voices, and having a very SERIOUS conversation. It’s just a little TOO weird, lol.
Iirakawaye 1 year ago
I have had this conversation SO many times! Sigh....
bocastud1 1 year ago
Usher... he's a great musician. Maybe you guys should call him and get a gig singing backup XD
Bonzofan89 1 year ago
this is fantastic.
dhotle 1 year ago
My non-profit rarely get contributions from US since we are NOT 501c3 - it would cost more than we have received so far to become registered in the US. Also to get a "stamp of approval" here in NL costs more than we can afford. It is such a pain to be in a chicken/egg situation. If we were big, we could much easier raise large amounts, now we cannot even raise 4 figures for an exhibition...
mplungjan 1 year ago
Atlantis guy is so right! I'm a singer-songwriter and the pay is lousy - and I get that "your talent is a gift from God so you should give it willingly" crap all the time. My "talent" also has included countless hours of practice, a college degree in Music/ Theatre, and dozens of charity benefit gigs over the years. i mean, hey, would you ask a CPA to do your taxes for free because his math skills are a "gift" so he should give it willingly?
SherryMcCamley 1 year ago
Give free tickets because there's no way to support every band you like--and we're just doing it for the joy? Well! Since there's no way to patronize/support every restaurant in town, should you get free meals, too? And I guess we should start giving free tickets to NFL games because you can't support all the local sports teams, and the guys are just playing for the fun of it. Should you demand free medical advice from a doctor you meet at a party because doctors "like to help people?"
AtlantisGuy 1 year ago
"You don't help sick African Children?" I loled.
normanthepig 1 year ago
"Give the guy free tickets"...after all, there is no way to support every band they like.
And how do these small chamber ensembles, choirs, and new music presenters survive? Yes, MOST professional musicians do this so "you can enjoy the music." But if they can't survive on smiles and applause.
The last part is right on: People drop hundreds - thousands - of dollars on overpriced lattes at Starbucks, but give this sndalcmy excuse when asked to donate a token amount to make art-music possible.
odhecatonz 1 year ago
I have to say this video is pretty spot on to how fundraising goes when trying to explain the needs of the symphony or the science centers I work for. It is really hard to argue a case for support against health and poverty issues. But we have to keep trying and be thankful for the patrons that will still come out even if they can't make a side donation. It blows peoples minds sometimes when we explain that ticket sales dont cover all costs.
ronwoodall82 1 year ago
Working in development and having worked on telefundraising I
ronwoodall82 1 year ago
Can I have some complimentary tickets? I'll write a honest review of your music and submit it to the local newspapers/magazines after the show! :P
The point of the matter is this, with the saturation of the arts swirling around us, there is no possible way for someone to possibly support every band/group they come across and like... Especially in a world economy like now...
Give the guy free tickets so he can enjoy your music... Isnt that why you do this? For people to enjoy your gift?
sndalcmy 1 year ago
@sndalcmy Sure, we do it for people to enjoy our gift/art/whatever. But that doesn't mean the performers shouldn't be paid for it. If we handed out free tickets to every person who asked for them, the group would not make enough money to stay afloat. I mean... really... did you even bother to pay attention during the video? Sheesh.
yethica 1 year ago
Fantastic, insightful, and damning. Ouch, the truth hurts.
playwrightshorizons 1 year ago
This is completely genius.
aconstant440 1 year ago
Brilliant!
maine29590 1 year ago
If not for the synthetic speech, I would've thought it was a verbatim transcription. It's so true it aches. From the fact of it and because it's so damn funny.
azabachelives 1 year ago
Bahhahha! "Oh, you're a non-profit! Does my donation help children in Africa?"
Many people just have no clue what it takes to produce performances. Is this our fault as arts organizations? Do we need to be more transparent? Or invite the public to see a little more behind the scenes?
blooboo7 1 year ago