Thomas Frank author of "The Wrecking Crew" on The Alcove

[urdude67]

did anyone else struggle to get past the obnoxious arrogant way the host speaks? the little drag of his vowels? Haarvaard Yaard

[stupidAmerkin]

When is anyone going to wake up to the reality that all this insanity about Republicans & Democrats is just a huge illusion. This so called 2 party system supports each other and used as a tool to keep the sheeple in the dark and under control. It's all a corporate fascist regime run and controlled by the international banksters and all CONgress and the senate are just board members and stock holders for the Fed. These inhuman entities have deceived the sheeple for generations & still at it.

[RunLiberty]

Ron Paul 2012

End the Fed

[Meade556]

@melodicrockfan Hear! Hear! Well the poor dumb sucker, I saw Barry was no good. Now we have proof. It would be forgiveable if the odds were too heavy, but I detect a great lack of will on his part. Let's take back our country, our Parties, our Government from these cretins! Three cheers for the red, white, and blue!

[jhs1958]

Thomas Frank has his head in the sand. If he had a brain, he'd be dangerous. Oops, he is dangerous - without a brain !!!

[ltjohnb]

What's wrong? Afraid of a logical discussion?

[tristramshandy3]

There's no possibility of a logical discussion with a partisan ideologue.

I hope you get over it some day.

Read Stuart Mill's "On Liberty".

And please practice what he preaches- intellectual honesty.

[ltjohnb]

If conservative policy is dumb because dumb conservatives in Kansas support it, then liberal policy is dumb because dumb urban blacks support it.

If you want to have a conversation about policy, then talk about policy. Franks' method of using voters as a proxy for policy is absolutely irrational. Along with being petty and irrelevant, poking fun at voters is a double-edged sword. Again, if urban blacks are a measure of liberal policy, then What's the Matter with Chicago, or Newark, etc.

[ltjohnb]

The progressive special interests are equally problematic. Conservatives provide a counterbalance to them.

Frank produces self-serving pap which soothes the intellectually lazy followers who can't understand why their ideology is rejected over and over.

Don't try to explain policy by reference to stupid voters. If you want to play that game, then liberal policy is garbage because uneducated urban blacks support it. That's the same sinister and stupid logic that Frank uses in his "analysis"

[bapyou]

"The progressive special interests"

What are the "progressive special interests" in your view?

In reality, and at their best and most true, progressive/liberal interests are those that benefit all Americans, not just special interests.

[ltjohnb]

The perfect example are the public sector unions in places like New Jersey. Are you familiar with what is happening there? The government decided to give extravagant pensions to government workers. For an investment of $120,000 through their career, a government worker gets millions of dollars worth of benefits. Someone has to pay for that. Being compassionate with other people's money leads to fraud and waste. Look at the calamity in NJ. That is what liberal special interests produce.

[bapyou]

"Being compassionate with other people's money leads to fraud and waste."

I'll assume government contractors in Iraq -- the endless stream of money for doing next to nothing -- wouldn't find a place on your list "using other people's money."

And "conservative" special interests benefit whom? The wealthiest amongst us. Peddle your bullshit elsewhere. I know too much about how you propagandists operate.

As for New Jersey unions, I say good. I am pro-union. Ronald Reagan was scum.

[ltjohnb]

I am a former liberal who campaigned for Gore and Kerry, voting against Bush twice. You have no warrant for your rude comments about me, much less your insults. They reflect poorly on your grasp of the issues.

So your argument is this: contractors in Iraq waste money, so no one should criticize other wastes of money. Did you think that through?

You are saying "good" to the fact that lush pensions are bankrupting a state. Services like schools and medical care could be affected. Your policy fails

[bapyou]

"I am a former liberal"

Ha ha ha ha. Thanks for the laugh.

When was I rude to you? I called Ronald Reagan scum. Which he was. The effects of his administration are with us today.

You rail on unions, while overlooking the welfare doled out to corporations. Unions are a pittance in comparison. But that's what the right always brings up. They/you want nothing but free unrestrcited markets. We've had unrestricted markets thru Bush 2. It is what's brought us to our present malaise.

[ltjohnb]

You were rude when you called me a "propagandist" who "peddles bullshit." Those were your words from your previous post remember?

Your comment that I "overlooked" corporate welfare is interesting. We get about 300 characters in this box. I can't list everything that I think is a waste of money. For you to say I "overlooked" something is thus absurd. I oppose corporate welfare, and any other form of wasteful redistribution.

You are really not a very logical or persuasive person.

[bapyou]

Calling you a propagandist is "rude"? Wow. Don't get me angry then. You'll wither. That said, I stand by my characterization.

"You are really not a very logical or persuasive person."

On the contrary. The illogic of standing up for so-called conservative positions is glaring.

I post comments on YT videos not to persuade anyone. That's impossible. I post to challenge & inform. Any realization is up to my individual readers.

& you "oppose wasteful redistribution" from whom to whom?

[ltjohnb]

The rude part is when you referred to my opinions as "bullshit." You have a very selective memory- the hallmark of indoctrinated minions.

So the illogic of standing up for conservative positions is glaring. That was empty rhetoric. Really, that was a worthless comment.

You 'challenge and inform'- what a joke. You preach to the choir, and to the voices in your head who all agree with you.

If you want an example of waste, look at the horrendous stimulus package. Waste, fraud, and abuse galore

[bapyou]

"the illogic of standing up for conservative positions"

No. What I wrote was "SO-CALLED" conservative positions.

"the horrendous stimulus package. Waste, fraud, and abuse galore"

Were you screaming "waste, fraud, abuse" six years ago when Halburton et al were raking in the $ overseas? The spend-plus option? Remember that? The more Haliburton spent, the more they were paid by the government for their phony "services"? What the fuck were you saying then, you self-righteous buffoon?

[ltjohnb]

You just conceded my argument against waste you idiot.

Wasting money is bad. Halliburton was bad when it wasted money. Stimulus is bad when it wastes money. Waste is bad in both cases, you dimwit.

Get it?

Are you saying you agree that the stimulus is a waste? How is pointing out Halliburton's waste a response to my criticism of stimulus waste? Halliburton wasted money, so we shouldn't criticize stimulus.

You probably don't even think through the logic of what you say, you ignorant dirt bag.

[tristramshandy3]

Where was the right when the repubs were wasting?

The fact that MOST of you were silent, and are now screaming and yelling- exposes the movement, as far as I am concerned, as a partisan fraud with no sincerity, guided by fear and partisan ignorance.

I STILL don't hear conservatives screaming about the trillion dollar wars we DID NOT NEED TO FIGHT when they talk about the deficit or spending.

It's called hypocrisy and partisanship.

You seem to have a bad case.

Take two of these :)

[bapyou]

@ltjohnb "Waste is bad in both cases ... How is (you) pointing out Haliburton's waste a response to my criticism of stimulus waste?"

But my question to you was this:

Were you screaming "waste, fraud, abuse" six years ago when Haliburton et al were raking in the $ overseas during the Bush admin?

I ask you this b/c most idiot conservatives like you were making elaborate excuses for such spending then, claiming such things as "Only Haliburton could do those jobs" etc.

[ltjohnb]

@bapyou "Waste is bad in both cases" I criticized waste, and you implicitly agreed with my point by noting Halliburton's waste. Do you comprehend the English language? I am saying waste is bad in both cases. Even if I were making elaborate excuses then, that would have no logical relevance to the current problem of waste. Do you think you are making sense? You are scoring points in your own imagination without realizing what an utterly ignorant series of arguments you've made.

[bapyou]

@ltjohnb For the THIRD time:

Were you screaming "waste, fraud, abuse" six years ago when Haliburton et al were raking in the $ overseas during the Bush admin?

[tristramshandy3]

No. No he wasn't.

[ltjohnb]

@bapyou Who is wasting money NOW?

Its not Halliburton you stupid ass.

You are illogical in the extreme.

To answer your irrelevant and evasive question: I thought money was being wasted by Halliburton at that time.

Since we are living in the present, and I am

keeping up with current events, I complained

about what is happening NOW.

Do you understand the meaning of NOW, you moron?

[bapyou]

@ltjohnb "Who is wasting money NOW? Its not Halliburton you stupid ass" Actually, Haliburton IS still wasting money, stupid ASS!

"I thought money was being wasted by Halliburton at that time."

But were you screaming about it like you're screaming about Obama? Or were you cheering on "the war effort" for Haliburton & KBR to rake in more $ from the government gravy train? Republicans like to scream "We hate government," but love it when gov $ is flowing into their bank accounts.

[ltjohnb]

@bapyou Are you screaming as much about waste NOW as you are screaming about Halliburton waste?

KBR and Halliburton are investigated and criticized. Do you agree that stimulus waste should be criticized as well?

There is no logical connection between my screaming and the problem of waste.

Again, waste is bad in either case.

When you insist on talking about my

own level of screaming, you just prove

that you are trying to change the topic.

You are a bore, and a dolt.

[bapyou]

@ltjohnb Still can't/refuse to answer the question. Thanks.

"You are a bore, and a dolt." And you are a right-wing bore and a right-wing dolt.

Cheers, asswipe. Wipe up the waste that flows from your ass-like mouth.

[ltjohnb]

@bapyou Your failure of comprehension is not very surprising.

Many people become locked in their own imaginary worlds, like you have.

You are to be pitied.

If waste is bad now, it doesn't matter whether I was screaming or not.

A reasonable person listening to us talk about waste occuring NOW would find you totally unconvincing and tedious, because you fail to confront the issue at hand, which is stimulus waste. That was the topic of debate, and you attempt to change the topic. You lose.

[bapyou]

@ltjohnb Look: Assfucker: Here's the bottom line:

You want me to make some sort of concession about Obama's "waste" while you never EVER spoke a PEEP when Bush was wasting $ hand over fist throughout his admin.

Go suck a tailpipe, you closet fag. We all know Republicans are closet fags. That's the only logical reason as to why you're all obssessed with what fags do.

[ltjohnb]

@bapyou You just acknowledged that you will not recognize a current problem because you think that I did not speak out a peep about a separate issue in the past. The merits of a current policy have nothing to do with my response to a past issue, because they are not related policies. If you made such an assertion in a high school English thesis, you would have been scolded. You are illogical in addition to being ignorant. You also write like an uneducated teenager who has no real ideas..

[bapyou]

@ltjohnb You never DID speak up about Bush, did you? That's why you can't admit it. You wish me to bash Obama for YOUR reasons, not on principal.

In fact, as long as American taxpayers dollars are being wasted on wars of aggression, or funneled to corporations, or the wasting is being done by members of a Republican administration, why then you have no problem with our government wasting taxpayer dollars. As with all so-called conservatives, you merely wish to score cheap political points.

[ltjohnb]

@bapyou

"you have no problem with our

government wasting taxpayer dollars"

You are a liar who can't read. I said that

I opposed the waste. You're not making an argument,

you're making idiotic subhuman noises.

I never called myself conservative. That's your label.

You really are an imbecile who lives in a fantasy land.

[bapyou]

@ltjohnb

Admit it: You enjoyed Bush giving our tax money to Haliburton and KBR and Blackwater. Admit it. Come clean, unprincipled dirty coward.

[ltjohnb]

@bapyou

You're not making an argument. You are

throwing insults, which is a reflection

of a small mind.

I seek intelligent exchange and dialogue.

You are not capable of that.

[bapyou]

@ltjohnb Just as I said ... you can't answer a simple question. You're an unprincipled dirty coward, just like all conservatives.

[ltjohnb]

@bapyou

Honestly, what do you think that type of

comment reflects about you?

Perhaps you are poorly educated, or

psychologically unstable, and you actually

find insults to be convincing or impressive.

What school of thought would you say

condones your form of insulting comment?

[jhs1958]

@bapyou -- Conservatives think with their brains. Liberal "think", oops, "react" with their emotions. HOORAY FOR CONSERVATIVES.

[HiRoader11]

in the PBS interview Mr. Frank gave.., It would be logic to ascertain the same conservative (special interest) entity funding the republican party has also funded the Obama administration... It's obvious during the Obama campaign, The closer he got to the 'oval office' the quieter/less noisier the crusade against the lobbyist & special interest.., Both parties feed on this funding have been neutralized,compromised.., Our American government is corrupt & infested with this whore funding....

[rickbar123]

I love his books. Great stuff.

[dilbertgeg]

An interesting anomaly noticed even on HuffPost, regarding financial regulation, Alan Greenspan and Paul Volcker have (disingenuously or not) taken a position for banking reform by the govt.

On the other hand, Barney Frank took a position on the Right, opposed to aspects of regulation.

[dilbertgeg]

Other than being a bit too much a fan of Obama at this point, February, he's smart.

Obama did strike a chord of economic populism, economic liberalism.

However, even Kucinich has the guts to say that the HC plan being implemented by Obama, and restricted by Obama, is a huge giveaway to insurance cartels.

I won't take away that O is more of a centrist corporatist than far Rights, Tom Delay, etc., but handouts to the banking sector and soon Insurance do not represent real liberal values.

[slytown]

Great interview Mark. Get more historians on your show.

"...Kansas?" was awesome. It was more of a social study, and I don't pay attention much to political scholarship, but I'll have to check out "The Wrecking Crew."

[hollywoodartchick]

Frank is my favorite writer. He is such fun to read, and he has such macro and micro clarity on how changes came about in American politics.

[ltjohnb]

He's a hack who evidently despises people who disagree with him. He has described his views as basically left of center. People in Kansas oppose his views. So he has two options: understand why they reject liberal policy, or make insulting excuses about the people who reject the policy.

He's actually conventional and not interesting at all. Any bitter left-winger can toss out insults against people who disagree with them.

Why doesn't he try justifying the debt that his "smart" policy causes?

[hollywoodartchick]

You have a lot of time to contradict others. Troll.

[ltjohnb]

That was a sophisticated and thoughtful response.

Exactly what I would expect from a dimwitted liberal. Why don't you defend your positions, instead of making inane comments?

Come on, tell me why debt is good and why government spending is the best use of our money. You shill.

[hollywoodartchick]

as if I owe you that respect? Earn it, bitch.

[tristramshandy3]

Why don't you tell me how this radical, recent departure from scores of thousands of years of human existence- this thing called modern, market capitalism- is sustainable.

Have you seen the floating plastic island in the pacific the size of Texas?

I'm sure the market will take care of it.

(sarcasm)

[ltjohnb]

abolition of slavery = recent departure.

We are sustaining that just fine. Don't you agree?

Women's lib=recent departure.

Sustaining that too.

Gay rights= very recent departure.

You going to argue against them on the basis that they are recent departures?

What a wretchedly weak argument.

There are problems with education in each parties' faithful Demographic. Moot point.

[tristramshandy3]

You clearly didn't understand my post; or your partisan ideology took over before you got to the end.

I wrote about how this radical, recent departure called market driven capitalism is NOT sustainable.

You countered with things that have no bearing on sustainability.

And the fact that you did so indicates either you haven't thought about it, or you understand how this system is self-defeating and cannot last.

Either way, viva Montaigne!

[ltjohnb]

@tristramshandy3 You give no evidence that capitalism is unsustainable.

Human nature is partly altruistic, and partly selfish.

Capitalist societies allow for the pursuit

of self interest, and also opportunities for

charity when one wishes.

Living standards increase under capitalism, not under any other system.

Your statement that capitalism is a recent departure is unsupported by any evidence.

It is thus a worthless, baseless opinion.

[tristramshandy3]

LOL. You are ADORABLE! I'm obviously no longer writing for you- you are long gone- but in case anyone else reads this- I'd like to expose just how silly you are being- and partisan.

The standard of living rose in Russia throughout the 1900's. I guess by your standards, communism works. This is part of the problem when you measure EVERYTHING in finances, as Americans, especially right wing ones, are wont to do.

How long do YOU think industrialization has been going on?

How long can it last?

[tristramshandy3]

As far as capitalism being unsustainable- there is a thick layer of plastic floating in the pacific ocean the size of Texas

I never said things were going to end tomorrow- but I think any THINKING person has to notice some severe, potentially fatal issues, with our out of control consumption and short-term thinking.

Indian tribes used to base decisions on how it would affect people seven generations ahead.

We make decisions based on next quarters profits statements.

One is smart

The other-not

[tristramshandy3]

Oh, you're a democrap. Is that supposed to make me like you or something?

Democraps are ALMOST as bad as republicans.

I question the sanity and intelligence of anyone that STILL votes for one of these corporate parties.

Have a nice day.

[tristramshandy3]

you say they are excuses- I say it's about fundamental problems with education in those rural, mossback dominated areas.

Can you provide any evidence to refute these claims- or do you respond with partisan platitudes?

[garyowen4ever]

its all about the wealth class in the usa,,,,the conservatives,ie, republicans keep the wealth class wealthyand at war..THAT'S IT NO MORE NO LESS,,,,the liberals ie.democrats serve the wealth class with CONVENIENCE MURDER, SOFT ON CRIME JURISPRUDENCE, AFFIRMATIVE ACTION FOR ITS WHITE JEW AND GENTILE DAUGHTERS which translates to the best paying jobs, SODOMY AND SEXUAL PERVERSITY AS THE NORM, and licentious decadence in all its forms as socially acceptable.

[bapyou]

Read Frank's book "What's the Matter with Kansas?'. Your stupid diatribe about the "liberal" problem will be put into its proper place when you do. Otherwise, you're a complete moron.

[garyowen4ever]

why dont you go back to teaching your community college snot nose idiots global warming fantasy, the evils of cigarette smoking and cap and trade bullshit youFUCKTARD!

[bapyou]

Read Frank's book "What's the Matter with Kansas?'. Your stupid diatribe about the "liberal" problem will be put into its proper place when you do.

I looked at your user page too. Real creative. Let me guess: You're Irish and being Irish is the only thing that you have to be proud of. VIva la nationalisme. Vote Republican again and give yourself even more of a reason to be an embitterred working-class miscreant.

[garyowen4ever]

the top fortunate 4 percent,runs this country preying on mainstreet with liberal social policy & conservative money policies, our congress is a whore for the wealth class via corp america and wall street. the wealth class. it wants to live in satanic decadence at will. what good is money and power without sex and sex without consequences, buying your way out of crime is what wealth is all about. i am the cossack mainstreet populist from hell I AM THE SPIRIT OF GARRYOWEN FOREVER!

[bapyou]

"its all about the wealth class ... conservative republicans keep the wealth class wealthy & at war"

Well, no. For the most part they don't go to war at all. It's the working class who go to war.

"the liberals ie.democrats serve the wealth class with CONVENIENCE MURDER"

Is "CONVENIENCE MURDER" a euphemism for abortiion? That's where I tune out, asshole.

[garyowen4ever]

on this St. Paddy's day, get a bottle of guinness, jam it up your queer faggot ass, drinking end up........sit on it for an hour, pull it out of your queer ass, pop the top and drink that fine irish brew directly from the bottle....ERIN GO BRAGH!

[bapyou]

I do have an ass, true. But my ass is neither queer nor faggot, thanks.

Keep the culture wars alive, Mr. Mc. Otherwise you have nothing to live for.

Erin go coward?

[jhs1958]

@bapyou -- HOORAY FOR REPUBLICANS !!!

[bapyou]

@jhs1958 "HOORAY FOR REPUBLICANS!"??

You mean HOORAY FOR USELESS DOPES!

[jhs1958]

@bapyou - No, I mean HOORAY FOR REPUBLICANS. BOO FOR DEMS- the condescending, flap jacking, airheads who haven't got a clue !!!

[bapyou]

@jhs1958 Another dope for Sarah Palin. Hoo-fucking-ray.

[jhs1958]

@bapyou - Hooray for Palin. She plus either Ann Coulter, Megan Kelly, Laura Ingraham would beat the hell out of Obama/Biden. What a pair of flambouant, swash-buckling incompetents !!! Let's see now, out of control immigration, spending through the roof, apologies for American policies now and past -- and a health bill that is not fully defined/written (what will be in it?). Total-complete JERKS !!! Not since Jimmy Carter and Woodrow Wilson has the USA been in such bad hands.

[bapyou]

@jhs1958 "out of control immigration"

Same thing under your corporate whore Idiot Bush, little bunny man. So what's your problem? Take your cues from the Idiot right do we?

"spending through the roof"

Idiot Bush spent more than any previous administration. Most of it went to its private industry pals.

"apologies for American policies now and past"

Yeah ... more war man! More war!

"a health bill that is not fully defined/written"

Yep. Single-payer option was the way to go.

[jhs1958]

@bapyou - Yipes, another guy with his head up his anus !

[billybraggdave1]

Thomas is the most important writter in America right now he is our new thomas paine

[garyowen4ever]

tom needs to rat out the corrupt and duplicitous liberals of the bana regime next.

[lennylisko]

he's exactly right about the Republicans - look at how they're behaving

[fredmacintosh887]

I dig that guy! He's sooooo hilarious but also very bright and interesting!

[vicdrian1958]

exelent interview!!

[ladylucylou]

Incredible interview!

[RyRyVids]

This guy is a cynical tool that laughs at shit that isn't funny. I want whatever drugs he's taking!

[danroduw06]

1st. Excellent books.