@young128 gza is a far betta rapper. but if u think da only part of rap skills is flow and rhyme skills which basicly means dat u can rhyme a lotta words randomly cos makin sense doesnt matter then u go ahead and think dat. no1 will agree wit u. 'GZA ain't even that lyrical' is hilarious. ive seen lots of people have him as a top 5 lyricist. think bout it. inspectah deck had betta rhyme schemes than gza but nearly every wu fan wuld tell u gza is betta lyricaly. and gza is a master & legend.
@young128 makin sense is a part of content. u cant just change definitions. and songs can b mad lyrical without multies. and how is ther no point 2 rhymin if it doesnt make sense cos apparently all u need 4 rap is rhyme schemes and flow. look at my about me description in my channel. i rote dat in 5-10 minutes. its got lots of multies and it makes sense but it cant b lyrical cos it took me hardly any time.
@young128 You're a fucking retard dude. Shut up and stop posting non-sense everywhere I go on youtube. I'm tired of seeing your over opinonated ignorant ass all over the place, spewing shit out. You sit there and say your opinions are "common rap knowledge" and that "all hip hop heads agree with you", but the fact is only 2 people have agreed with you. Nothing you say is common rap knowledge you retard, it's a lousy opinion.
@rakimkoolgrapwutang Fuck, these people are stupid. You are right, don't let them confuse you. GZA is the greatest lyricist to ever touch the mic. YES, Canibus uses bigger words and the same goes for K-Rino, but that doesn't make them better. Canibus and K-Rino are fucking amazing, but GZA is on top when it comes to lyrics. His lyrics have multiple meaning all the time, they make you think so hard it's unbelievable. People should listen to Duel of the Iron Mic. Tonedeff is mad talented though.
Tonedeff has both a better flow and far better lyrics. Anyone who doesn't understand those simple "metaphors" (they're actually similes) in the gza's songs just doesn't know the words. With Tonedeff you actually have to read them, "Slaying giants like my legal name's David." Biblical allusion and he mentions the Bible twice later. Don't talk about lyrics when they go over YOUR head. If you still don't get it listen to "Loyal" by Tone and you will understand.
This has a double meaning, the banks of G could mean the money of gangsters feeding opposites off the set, turning people against one another, but the banks of G likely also means the banks ran by the freemasons, the masonic logo is a G, feeding good opposites off the set. What GZA is probably getting at is that both of these interpretations have a lot more in common than we may be led to believe,
@rakimkoolgrapwutang If he was referring to the Freemasons, which I doubt, then he would be making an association that makes absolutely zero sense. Anyone can name drop, it's about using clever puns and twisting words in ways you normally wouldn't that makes lyrics good.
while your plan failed, hit the rail, like Amtrak'-Note that this talk of stations comes between a line about radios and a line about trains. this is obviously a play on da words station which can mean a radio station or train station. gzas lyrics usualy just go over most peoples heads.
@TheColorfulCube lmfao all u talk bout is multies and fast flow. u dont no any other part of lyricism and then u try and talk shit about every1 not knowin hip hop knowledge wen u say shit like 'lil wayne is lyrically better than every individual wu tang member'
WHOOOAAAH! IS THIS A FUCKING JOKE. OF COURSE GZA WINS. TONEDEFF HAS BETTER FLOW BUT GZAs LYRICS ARE REVOLUTIONARY AND BY FAR BETTER THAN THAT OF ANY OTHER RAPPER.
@rakimthegod1 Man u always talk about the K-Rino brother. Technically he is probably the illest and no doubt is he one of the greatest lyricists of all time. His production sucks, but as a lyricist he is brilliant. Still.. He can't fuck with GZA. GZA imagery is insane. You always go to GZA videos and promote K-Rino why the fuck is that? Why always on a GZA video? I just don't get it. You like the GZA fanbase?
@xhoni123456 Get the fuck out of here. MF Doom is great and his off beat flow is great. Madvillain is a classic, so is Operation Doomsday, but you on some drugs if u think Doom is better than GZA.
Poor song choice for tonedeff in my opinion. Could've picked something with more lyrical substance which he has plenty of
as far as comparing these two i wouldn't even bother. GZA's a legend of subtle and intricate word play; but I don't think he's ever blown my mind with a verse like Tonedeff has (The Gates, I Wish I Was Dead) , they're both great
They're both great, what's the point of arguing...Tonedeff is one of MANY super dope lyricists that slept on in the underground who is AMAZINGLY DOPE...Others include Elzhi, Diabolic, Crooked I, One Be Lo, Louis Logic, Percee-P, Juice, Deacon the Villan, Copywrite to name a few super dope dudes and tonedeff is MOS DEF in that group...Those 10 could make a new AMAZING Wu-Tang and if they were given RZA/Primo/Large Professor/Q-Tip/Black Milk/Madlib/J-Dilla/Stoupe production throughout it'd be FIRE
@Cenon2007 not by a long shot. I was exaggerating though so if you really did laugh I achieved my goal. Tonedeff is a latino brother i know that and as a black person myself i do recognize latinos roles in creating hip hop but he is just too reminiscent of Eminem to me for me to dig on him. Thats just me. Im not saying anyone is biting anyone or anything but i just don't be diggin on them high pitched rapid fire helium niggaz.
@MrMandingus It's all good, to eaches own. However i dont see Tone much as a helium pitched rapper, he;s got some raspy-ness in his voice. Now Bizzy Bone on the other hand... lol.
Please check out Tonedeff's Porcelain, The Gates, The Distance, Love Aint, My lady (under the name Chico and the Man) if you want to compare lyrics. He may be the most technical rapper but that often overshadows the fact that he is probably the most artistic rapper in the game. Not to mention he can sing, makes most of his own beats and can freestyle like a mad man. TONEDEFF>>>>
@regginscanjump porcelain=quite good the gates=mediocre the distance=classic love aint=classic my lady=quite good/almost classic imo. but i think ur sleeping on other rappers if u think tonedeff is miles better than them. and imo i think 'beneath the surface' is far better than any of those songs and that aint near gzas best song
@regginscanjump imo i think it is cuz the story wasnt very well-detailed and descriptive. it had a very good rhyme scheme but i think tonedeff let the rhyme scheme dictate 2 much what happened in the first verse and some other parts of the story. compare it 2 a well detailed story like 'undying love' 2 see what i mean.
Flow can be coached...speed can be obtained. The mental capacity to spit lyrically can be enhanced, but the ability within itself can't be taught. GZA is far superior in this aspect. Flow never meant much to me when it came to hip hop. Entertainment value maybe weighed on flow, but pure lyricism speaks for itself. GZA thinks in a way that is far beyond even some of the most complex artists. Tone is cool though, but next to GZA he has to be the opening act.
Damn this dude is good, I've heard of him mentioned in best rappers list before but I always overlooked him. But damn, this dude is nasty, anyone want to suggest any other songs made by Tonedeff to me.
@DrunkenDragon58104 Exactly, because if you use that argument one can say Twista is better than Gza, which everybody know isn't true. Tonedeff is definitely one of the best rappers living, but he isn't better than Gza. Gza is called the Genius for a reason, Liquid Swords was one of the best albums ever. I still love Tonedeff though and he is definitely better than ALL mainstream rappers..
I've heard enough songs from both artists and i've decided that i like Tonedeff better,his flow is flawless and he can get serious when he has to,don't think he's just all about that fast rap shit,i also think he's one of the most talented writers i've heard in recent years.
@DrogiwanCannobi I'd have to agree. Hip-Hop culture is typically competitive, but sometimes things like this are a waste to compare. GZA, in my opinion, automatically has longevity over Tonedeff, primarily because they're from different eras. Tonedeff has been around, no doubt, and right now I'd likely rather hear his music simply because he brings the New School to the table, but come on. serious?
cant really compare them there so different and both sick at wat they do from a personel point of view i think gza is better tonedeff does my head in after 10 minutes its too fast most of the time gza is a master of wordplay and been around for years
tonedeff been around since 93, yeah the styles are way to different, the reason i made this video is because some dude said "tone is complete garbage, and gza is the greatest ever", by the way tone is a master of wordplay himself, he just does it with a fast rapid flow.
Flow has nothing to do with someone's ability. When you say who is better, that's based off lyrics, but you can't say, he is better because his flow is superior. Flow and Lyrics are apples and oranges to different things. Flow doesn't count when you are saying who is better than who.
@0194D A dope MC will have the whole package, Tonedeffs got amazing flow. His lyrics may not be quite as good as GZA's, however they are not that far behind. And his wordplay is infact better.
What do you define as wordplay, many people give a different definition for that word.
Also if GZA's lyrics are better, then that makes him better than Tonedeff. Flow is opinion. But Lyrics are fact. I might not like rappers who flow fast or I might not like rappers who flow slow. Or I might hate rappers who rapper at a medium speed.
Anyways you said it yourself, GZA was lyrically better.
And still you can be lyrically sick but have no flow what so ever.
@0194D The way i see it, Tones flow is much ebtter than GZAs, GZAs lyrics are only a bit better than tones.
If GZAs flow was a decent amount ebtter than it would give much more momentum in the comparison, but he doesnt. Which imo leave them roughly the same.
@lvskshyne na g. rapping faster dont mean nuthn. it just means hes just a style. but gza out does tonededd hands down. ant sayn tone is bad. he just ant as sick an raw as gza
@lvskshyne ur stupid as hell, fast doesn't make better... ill give u a thousand of rappers who's "flow" is just as smooth as tonedeff's goin half the speed. your a discrace to hip hop. shame.
@alexisNYK1 I think it's alright to compare the greats. I enjoy talking real hip hop opinions with true heads. It's not like anyone's saying either of these guys suck, just a debate based on opinion. Now if it were GZA or tone vs. Wayne it'd be a different story.
of course tone is a better rapper, anyone who even has to stop and think about that needs to punch themselves in the face and have their ears removed. unfortunately he just doesnt have much in the way of a great body of work. his beats are average at best, and his singing needs to stop. but yeh apart from that he shits buckets all over the jizzer.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
LoL are people seriously comparing a nobody like Tonedeff to the Gza. I hope and pray Tonedeff gets shot in the face and dies. That way no one will remember him. Tonedeff's style is all homo, hes a bitch. He's no genius, shut up.. Twista, Immortal Technique, Canibus, Ghostface, etc aren't geniuses so fucking stop the claims.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! you sound like one of those ignorant mainstream hip-hop fans, saying "are people seriously comparing a nobody like Tonedeff to the Gza" hahahah! now thats some homo talk right there, reconize skill and quit the fuckin bullshit, technically TONEDEFF is just on another level, i guess it takes some knowledge to notice that, i personally like gza a lil more, but tone like many other great underrated MCs is too much for the typical ignorant audience.
lol how can you compare immortal technique and tonedeff to twista? obviously you don't understand half the stuff immortal says cause he's smarter than you. which probably isnt hard. go get your G.E.D.
if anyone tries to debate my "yeras in the game" search arsenio hall tonedeff, he preformed on arsenio in 93', pretty equal in years in the game, the video is on youtube
Technicaly / Skill wise = tondeff (no question) that shouldnt even be debatable , the complexity of his lyrics speak for them self
Body of work= gza --no question, but his brother rza produces, put his stuff out..tonedeff produces his own shit puts it out himself,that says alot, not as much time to just focus on lyrics
Content=equal both have deep songs
Overal mc skills/ live show /delivery/years in the game=TONEDEFF
Tonedeff is waaayy more versitile. listen to "Porcelain" or "My Lady". not to mention he makes beats, freestyles like a beast and runs a record label. I admit archetype wasn't the greatest album but it does showcase how multitalented he is. Can't wait till CatM drops!
GZA has songs like "Queen's Gambit", where he uses nearly all of the teams in the NFL as regular words and it makes sense too. It's produced by the legendary DJ Muggs of Cypress Hill. Songs like "Labels", where he uses label brand names as regular vocabulary, and "Fame" where he uses the names of famous people. Give those a listen and tell me who's more versatile.
Members of the Wu-Tang Clan and their affiliates performing at the Virgin Festival in Baltimore. From left: Mathematics (background), Inspectah Deck, Streetlife, U-God, Cappadonna (crouched), Method Man, GZA, Raekwon, RZA.
But personally i like tonedeff. His lyrics borderline genius, and his speed sets fire to the comprehension vectors in your temporal lobe. check out Tonedeff- Velocity.
I don't understand how you can even compare these two very different types of music. While both are lyrically and rhythmically stimulating, there is the element of speed that sets these too songs in separate categories. Tonedeff who chooses to spit remarkably fast not careing if it leads to fame and fortune or not, and GZA who spits more mellow (from this song any way, haven't listened to any others yet) slower rhymes focusing of a nice flow. I mean its comparing apples and oranges.
u guys dont know alot about hip-hop if you think Tonedeff is better just cuz of a few good songs/spit from him. GZA is hip-hop history, tonedeff just got started a few years ago. Just know where GZA is compared to tonedeff.
Or, your standards are determined by what others think. I know hip-hop history, and I know that old-school rappers had very simplistic rhyme schemes and little wordplay, despite the celebration of these qualities. Since then, new talent has emerged, but people like you could never admit the newer stuff is better because you are unable to separate record sales, popularity, etc from artistry and skill.
"tonedeff just got started a few years ago" --newking ...his first album droped in 98' , thats over a decade..." guys dont know alot about hip-hop if you think Tonedeff is better just cuz of a few good songs" i've never heard a whak song from him , all quality, i've heard several whak gza songs. Tone has been persistent in the underground for over a decade, its hard to keep going 10 years when your not seeing any money, gza had advantage of having rza as a brother and the wu-tang fame
you obviously havent heard that many then , his first album Hyphen EP (almost 10 years old) every song is fire...and his Archetype album is a classic..try listening to some more of his shit before stating that
"When I was learning how to rhyme I was listening to Biz Markie, Beastie Boys, RunDMC and LLCoolJ - early DefJam shit and SHGang. In the spectrum of emceeing as an artform, THAT lyricism wasn't exactly all that, but the feel and the soul was there. Nowadays everybody's doing multi's, different patterns and all types of crazy flows. So the avg kid that comes into the game now is automatically better than emcees 20 yrs ago, he's technically better, not sayin that he's all-around BETTER" - Tonedeff
As tonedeff explained, those guys set the stage for people like him, and no one is arguing about their originality. But from a technical perspective, their lyrics don't come close. Listen to Kool G Rap, Rakim, and Big Daddy Kane and compare the multisyllables, metaphors, wordplay, cleverness, logic, and overall complexity, and you will be forced to come to this realization if you keep an open mind. Ask yourself beforehand - what criteria determines the perceived level of lyrical skill?
Anyone who says GZA is a complete idiot. GZA spits monosyllabic simplistic kindergarten rhymes. If you like him more it's either because hes famous or because he is rapping about drugs and glocks (thug shit). Tonedeff's first verse is all on the same multi rhyme scheme. On his 3rd verse, he makes every syllable of every line rhyme, all the while staying on beat. How do you guys not hear this? Do you know how hard that is?
Please point out examples of these "better" metaphors and wordplay, because imo they are just not that impressive. As I stated before, tonedeff's multi's are impossible to compete with. GZA is straight monosyllable with corny metaphors. As for concepts, you don't need to rap about "thug shit" to be hip-hop. Gangsta rap is a sub-genre.
Tonedeff is often compared to Twista and other fast rappers, while he can stand the comparison with top lyricists. This shows how versatile he is, an amazing rapper. You may add his skills in production, singing and graphic design and get an amazing artist.
Still, I think lyrically I am with GZA. This is mainly because Tone has lines which turn out wrong. Both are top notch. Overall, I like Tone better. He combines the skills of a whole fucking band in one person.
gza is more lyrical cause every line he spits means more and hits harder then tonedeff. if it wasnt for wu tang i bet tonedeff wouldnt be as good as he is because wu tang is the most insparational lyrical act in hip hop history. so u jmt dick riders go and I
I dont know about GZA but Tone is tough competition with songs like...
Masochist
Optimist
My Lady
No Hope
Porcelain
The Gates
Tone is a superior hip hop artist that much of hip hop has yet to achieve in status. The metaphor argument is rather weak. I hear it all the time and yet rappers with just metaphors concentrate too hard on trying to sound intelligent that they fail to convey everything that goes into music in general-emotion, relating to people.
there is no comparison to tonedeff and GZA ,Gza is deeper in the rap game ,why do u think tonedeff aint even know as much as GZA he is the genuis, he is one of the parts that made the WU-TANG CLAN know as it is today
GZA is lyrically one of the greatest of all time. His style is also what makes him so great. While tonedeff is good he is not in GZA's league. Also GZA is not that popular of an MC like some of you make him out to be ODB and Method Man were the real popular people in Wu-tang.
Tonedeff is not in GZA's league. GZA is more lyrical, has a laid back wise flow compared to Tonedeff's lightning fast flow, is more influential, but i would say both him and tonedeff are pretty equal in their pure rapping ability.
GZAs albums are way better. Liquid Swords>Tonedeff
SupernaturalTip 2 months ago
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rakimkoolgrapwutang 2 months ago
tonedeff does not have lyrics. he just rhymes. im not a big gza fan but at least he has lyrics.
groalerable 3 months ago
@groalerable So you've not heard more than one or two Tonedeff songs?
spanky1113 3 months ago
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young128 4 months ago
@young128 gza is a far betta rapper. but if u think da only part of rap skills is flow and rhyme skills which basicly means dat u can rhyme a lotta words randomly cos makin sense doesnt matter then u go ahead and think dat. no1 will agree wit u. 'GZA ain't even that lyrical' is hilarious. ive seen lots of people have him as a top 5 lyricist. think bout it. inspectah deck had betta rhyme schemes than gza but nearly every wu fan wuld tell u gza is betta lyricaly. and gza is a master & legend.
rakimkoolgrapwutang 4 months ago
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young128 4 months ago
@young128 makin sense is a part of content. u cant just change definitions. and songs can b mad lyrical without multies. and how is ther no point 2 rhymin if it doesnt make sense cos apparently all u need 4 rap is rhyme schemes and flow. look at my about me description in my channel. i rote dat in 5-10 minutes. its got lots of multies and it makes sense but it cant b lyrical cos it took me hardly any time.
rakimkoolgrapwutang 4 months ago
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young128 4 months ago
@young128 i do make sense in my multies. they may b random but hey make sense. i guess im 1 of da gr8est lyricists alive now.
rakimkoolgrapwutang 4 months ago
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young128 4 months ago
@young128 no u said all u need 2 b a great rapper is rhyme schemes and flow. and randomness has nuffin 2 do wit uniqueness.
rakimkoolgrapwutang 4 months ago
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young128 4 months ago
@young128 and how is a multy unique.
rakimkoolgrapwutang 4 months ago
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young128 4 months ago
@young128 ur an idiot. do u realy think songs like queens gambit arent lyrical.
rakimkoolgrapwutang 4 months ago
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young128 4 months ago
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young128 4 months ago
@young128 i think ur confusin deep content wit gud content. ur hilarious if u think queens gambit aint lyrical.
rakimkoolgrapwutang 4 months ago
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young128 4 months ago
@young128 ur confusin deep content wit lyrical content.
rakimkoolgrapwutang 4 months ago
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young128 4 months ago
@young128 'its like saying keep ya head up is lyrical just cuz its deep'. im sayin nuffin like dat.
rakimkoolgrapwutang 4 months ago
@rakimkoolgrapwutang
Canibus > GZA
TheColorfulCube 4 months ago
@TheColorfulCube this video or conversation had nuffin 2 do wit canibus. sfknns is rite u do seem 2 mention him a lot 4 no reason.
rakimkoolgrapwutang 4 months ago
@young128 You're a fucking retard dude. Shut up and stop posting non-sense everywhere I go on youtube. I'm tired of seeing your over opinonated ignorant ass all over the place, spewing shit out. You sit there and say your opinions are "common rap knowledge" and that "all hip hop heads agree with you", but the fact is only 2 people have agreed with you. Nothing you say is common rap knowledge you retard, it's a lousy opinion.
cormegaful 4 months ago
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young128 5 months ago
@young128 gza is way more lyrical but deff has a betta flow. but thers lots of rappers like tonedeff. i havent heard many like gza.
rakimkoolgrapwutang 5 months ago
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young128 5 months ago
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young128 5 months ago
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rakimkoolgrapwutang 5 months ago
@young128 lyrics isnt just rhyme scheme. gzas flow isnt da most excitin but it isnt random. wtf is a random flow.
rakimkoolgrapwutang 5 months ago
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young128 5 months ago
@rakimkoolgrapwutang Fuck, these people are stupid. You are right, don't let them confuse you. GZA is the greatest lyricist to ever touch the mic. YES, Canibus uses bigger words and the same goes for K-Rino, but that doesn't make them better. Canibus and K-Rino are fucking amazing, but GZA is on top when it comes to lyrics. His lyrics have multiple meaning all the time, they make you think so hard it's unbelievable. People should listen to Duel of the Iron Mic. Tonedeff is mad talented though.
MidlandKruiskade 4 months ago
@rakimkoolgrapwutang
Tonedeff has both a better flow and far better lyrics. Anyone who doesn't understand those simple "metaphors" (they're actually similes) in the gza's songs just doesn't know the words. With Tonedeff you actually have to read them, "Slaying giants like my legal name's David." Biblical allusion and he mentions the Bible twice later. Don't talk about lyrics when they go over YOUR head. If you still don't get it listen to "Loyal" by Tone and you will understand.
foliag3 5 months ago
@foliag3 'The banks of G, all CREAM downs a bet
Money feed good, opposites off the set'
This has a double meaning, the banks of G could mean the money of gangsters feeding opposites off the set, turning people against one another, but the banks of G likely also means the banks ran by the freemasons, the masonic logo is a G, feeding good opposites off the set. What GZA is probably getting at is that both of these interpretations have a lot more in common than we may be led to believe,
rakimkoolgrapwutang 5 months ago
@rakimkoolgrapwutang If he was referring to the Freemasons, which I doubt, then he would be making an association that makes absolutely zero sense. Anyone can name drop, it's about using clever puns and twisting words in ways you normally wouldn't that makes lyrics good.
foliag3 5 months ago
@foliag3 it wuld make sense cos hes sayin corrupt banks r owned by freemasons. also he does have clever twistin of words like
'let us(letters) gather round to form words'
also look at this song and da lyrics
watch?v=RBD6iXiMukw&feature=watch_response
rakimkoolgrapwutang 5 months ago
@rakimkoolgrapwutang
ahaha you have a point, I guess I mean Tonedeff's delivery is better, while GZA is blessed with a pen.
I love Luminal too, GZA's a great storyteller
BringTheRiot 5 months ago
@BringTheRiot yeh i no wat u mean. exploitation of mistakes is my favorite gza story
rakimkoolgrapwutang 5 months ago
'Lyrics are weak, like clock radio speakers
Don't even stop in my station and attack
while your plan failed, hit the rail, like Amtrak'-Note that this talk of stations comes between a line about radios and a line about trains. this is obviously a play on da words station which can mean a radio station or train station. gzas lyrics usualy just go over most peoples heads.
rakimkoolgrapwutang 5 months ago
@TheColorfulCube lmfao all u talk bout is multies and fast flow. u dont no any other part of lyricism and then u try and talk shit about every1 not knowin hip hop knowledge wen u say shit like 'lil wayne is lyrically better than every individual wu tang member'
rakimkoolgrapwutang 5 months ago
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young128 5 months ago
@young128 rhyme technique isnt da only part of lyricism. why do u think dat.
rakimkoolgrapwutang 5 months ago
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young128 5 months ago
@young128 lol dats so stupid. so r u goin 2 say slick rick is less lyrical than lil wayne lmfao
rakimkoolgrapwutang 5 months ago
WHOOOAAAH! IS THIS A FUCKING JOKE. OF COURSE GZA WINS. TONEDEFF HAS BETTER FLOW BUT GZAs LYRICS ARE REVOLUTIONARY AND BY FAR BETTER THAN THAT OF ANY OTHER RAPPER.
2lowkey100 7 months ago
@2lowkey100 dickrider LOL
TheColorfulCube 6 months ago
@TheColorfulCube lol u cant talk
rakimkoolgrapwutang 5 months ago
@2lowkey100 agreed except maybe a few people like pun or rakim or kool g or k rino might b equal 2 his level of lyrics but not beyond.
rakimkoolgrapwutang 5 months ago
@rakimthegod1 Man u always talk about the K-Rino brother. Technically he is probably the illest and no doubt is he one of the greatest lyricists of all time. His production sucks, but as a lyricist he is brilliant. Still.. He can't fuck with GZA. GZA imagery is insane. You always go to GZA videos and promote K-Rino why the fuck is that? Why always on a GZA video? I just don't get it. You like the GZA fanbase?
MidlandKruiskade 7 months ago
MF DOOM>>GZA >>tonedeff
xhoni123456 7 months ago
@xhoni123456 Get the fuck out of here. MF Doom is great and his off beat flow is great. Madvillain is a classic, so is Operation Doomsday, but you on some drugs if u think Doom is better than GZA.
MidlandKruiskade 7 months ago
@MidlandKruiskade listen to thats that or dead mouse
anyway that was my opinion
xhoni123456 7 months ago
Tonedeff = Greatest flow ever.
I prefer GZa though.
XanderBBo 8 months ago
Tonedeff battle track i just uploaded
youtube.com/watch?v=Gqs0_-ihpHo
This one is vs Kronic Plague
tonedeff123 10 months ago
I can't call it! They both sick!
sup3rmunky 1 year ago
Poor song choice for tonedeff in my opinion. Could've picked something with more lyrical substance which he has plenty of
as far as comparing these two i wouldn't even bother. GZA's a legend of subtle and intricate word play; but I don't think he's ever blown my mind with a verse like Tonedeff has (The Gates, I Wish I Was Dead) , they're both great
BringTheRiot 1 year ago
@BringTheRiot did his verses in fame 4th chamber and queens gambit not blow ur mind.
rakimkoolgrapwutang 5 months ago
They're both great, what's the point of arguing...Tonedeff is one of MANY super dope lyricists that slept on in the underground who is AMAZINGLY DOPE...Others include Elzhi, Diabolic, Crooked I, One Be Lo, Louis Logic, Percee-P, Juice, Deacon the Villan, Copywrite to name a few super dope dudes and tonedeff is MOS DEF in that group...Those 10 could make a new AMAZING Wu-Tang and if they were given RZA/Primo/Large Professor/Q-Tip/Black Milk/Madlib/J-Dilla/Stoupe production throughout it'd be FIRE
jthesnake77 1 year ago
Tonedeff raps like a white boy that listens to too much Twista.
GZa is better.
MrMandingus 1 year ago
@MrMandingus Lol, someone must be new to hiphop.
Cenon2007 1 year ago
@Cenon2007 not by a long shot. I was exaggerating though so if you really did laugh I achieved my goal. Tonedeff is a latino brother i know that and as a black person myself i do recognize latinos roles in creating hip hop but he is just too reminiscent of Eminem to me for me to dig on him. Thats just me. Im not saying anyone is biting anyone or anything but i just don't be diggin on them high pitched rapid fire helium niggaz.
MrMandingus 1 year ago
@MrMandingus It's all good, to eaches own. However i dont see Tone much as a helium pitched rapper, he;s got some raspy-ness in his voice. Now Bizzy Bone on the other hand... lol.
Cenon2007 1 year ago
Please check out Tonedeff's Porcelain, The Gates, The Distance, Love Aint, My lady (under the name Chico and the Man) if you want to compare lyrics. He may be the most technical rapper but that often overshadows the fact that he is probably the most artistic rapper in the game. Not to mention he can sing, makes most of his own beats and can freestyle like a mad man. TONEDEFF>>>>
regginscanjump 1 year ago 8
@regginscanjump porcelain=quite good the gates=mediocre the distance=classic love aint=classic my lady=quite good/almost classic imo. but i think ur sleeping on other rappers if u think tonedeff is miles better than them. and imo i think 'beneath the surface' is far better than any of those songs and that aint near gzas best song
rakimkoolgrapwutang 3 weeks ago
@rakimkoolgrapwutang the gates is mediocre? wow ok. I can't wait to hear this Gza song thats lyrically far far better than the Gates.
regginscanjump 3 weeks ago
@regginscanjump imo i think it is cuz the story wasnt very well-detailed and descriptive. it had a very good rhyme scheme but i think tonedeff let the rhyme scheme dictate 2 much what happened in the first verse and some other parts of the story. compare it 2 a well detailed story like 'undying love' 2 see what i mean.
rakimkoolgrapwutang 3 weeks ago
you can rap as fast as you want to and it doesnt mean a damn thing...Gza got this dude beat easily
DreamShatterah 1 year ago
Flow can be coached...speed can be obtained. The mental capacity to spit lyrically can be enhanced, but the ability within itself can't be taught. GZA is far superior in this aspect. Flow never meant much to me when it came to hip hop. Entertainment value maybe weighed on flow, but pure lyricism speaks for itself. GZA thinks in a way that is far beyond even some of the most complex artists. Tone is cool though, but next to GZA he has to be the opening act.
raventakayama 1 year ago
GZA is way better IMO
SupernaturalTip 1 year ago
both sick as fuck. thats it
PPPPookinz 1 year ago
Damn this dude is good, I've heard of him mentioned in best rappers list before but I always overlooked him. But damn, this dude is nasty, anyone want to suggest any other songs made by Tonedeff to me.
0194D 1 year ago
@0194D "Optimist", "Porcelain", "The Distance", and "Love Ain't" and "The Gates" with Cunninlynguists.
He's also got a new album scheduled to be out by the end of this year called "Chico and the Man". A couple songs have leaked from that.
Illmatic1988 1 year ago
both dope MC's
L33tPwNeD 1 year ago
I LOVE TONEDEFF, im so glad people can appreciate the underground still while all these kids bump radio rap. the underground is the elite.
SleazyHandshake 1 year ago
Gza and Tonedeff are tied for G.O.A.T in my opinion... Gza seems to use deeper, more intelligent wordplay, but no one can fuck with Tonedeffs flow
TheBigEaze 1 year ago
To add though, Tone's def got skill, but sayin that speed makes him better than GZA is just dumb man... its still about content
DrunkenDragon58104 1 year ago
@DrunkenDragon58104 Exactly, because if you use that argument one can say Twista is better than Gza, which everybody know isn't true. Tonedeff is definitely one of the best rappers living, but he isn't better than Gza. Gza is called the Genius for a reason, Liquid Swords was one of the best albums ever. I still love Tonedeff though and he is definitely better than ALL mainstream rappers..
JLuvs0fficial 1 year ago
I've heard enough songs from both artists and i've decided that i like Tonedeff better,his flow is flawless and he can get serious when he has to,don't think he's just all about that fast rap shit,i also think he's one of the most talented writers i've heard in recent years.
GZA is dope too tho!
lucky806 2 years ago 2
I think you just cant compare them. theyre both sick rappers. gza is classic, tonedeff is not that popular yet.
DrogiwanCannobi 2 years ago
@DrogiwanCannobi I'd have to agree. Hip-Hop culture is typically competitive, but sometimes things like this are a waste to compare. GZA, in my opinion, automatically has longevity over Tonedeff, primarily because they're from different eras. Tonedeff has been around, no doubt, and right now I'd likely rather hear his music simply because he brings the New School to the table, but come on. serious?
Dramacydal18 2 years ago
if any one thinks the faster on raps the better they are, listen to twista, raps fast , but still sucks
MakavelixWuTang 2 years ago
cant really compare them there so different and both sick at wat they do from a personel point of view i think gza is better tonedeff does my head in after 10 minutes its too fast most of the time gza is a master of wordplay and been around for years
kickboxa5 2 years ago
tonedeff been around since 93, yeah the styles are way to different, the reason i made this video is because some dude said "tone is complete garbage, and gza is the greatest ever", by the way tone is a master of wordplay himself, he just does it with a fast rapid flow.
lvskshyne 2 years ago 4
fair point just my opinion
kickboxa5 2 years ago
Tondeff sing faster its bad that his song amm..g*y
daniel312273 2 years ago
gza has more complicated metaphors, tonedeff is alot faster but that doesnt make him better. there both fukin great
MakavelixWuTang 2 years ago 8
being fast makes him technically better, the flow is just superior.
lvskshyne 2 years ago
@lvskshyne That's like saying a 100 shitty missles compare to a Hydrogen Bombs... sorry to say dude, lyrical performance pwns up on speed any day...
DrunkenDragon58104 1 year ago
@lvskshyne wrong buddy,just because someone can spit fast doesn't make them good,great or better.
aderuno 1 year ago
@lvskshyne
Flow has nothing to do with someone's ability. When you say who is better, that's based off lyrics, but you can't say, he is better because his flow is superior. Flow and Lyrics are apples and oranges to different things. Flow doesn't count when you are saying who is better than who.
0194D 1 year ago
@0194D A dope MC will have the whole package, Tonedeffs got amazing flow. His lyrics may not be quite as good as GZA's, however they are not that far behind. And his wordplay is infact better.
Cenon2007 1 year ago
@Cenon2007
What do you define as wordplay, many people give a different definition for that word.
Also if GZA's lyrics are better, then that makes him better than Tonedeff. Flow is opinion. But Lyrics are fact. I might not like rappers who flow fast or I might not like rappers who flow slow. Or I might hate rappers who rapper at a medium speed.
Anyways you said it yourself, GZA was lyrically better.
And still you can be lyrically sick but have no flow what so ever.
0194D 1 year ago
@0194D The way i see it, Tones flow is much ebtter than GZAs, GZAs lyrics are only a bit better than tones.
If GZAs flow was a decent amount ebtter than it would give much more momentum in the comparison, but he doesnt. Which imo leave them roughly the same.
Cenon2007 1 year ago
@lvskshyne na g. rapping faster dont mean nuthn. it just means hes just a style. but gza out does tonededd hands down. ant sayn tone is bad. he just ant as sick an raw as gza
woterx 1 year ago
@lvskshyne ur stupid as hell, fast doesn't make better... ill give u a thousand of rappers who's "flow" is just as smooth as tonedeff's goin half the speed. your a discrace to hip hop. shame.
SIGsogger 1 year ago
@SIGsogger Are you fucken serious? you're gonna say Tonedeff Can't flow?
Tonedeff switches up the flow to keep it entertaining and not monotonous. He's lyrics and wordplays pretty sick too.
Not saying he's better than GZA nor am i saying GZA is better than Tonedeff. Apples and Oranges.
You're just a hater who must be new to hiphop.
Cenon2007 1 year ago
@MakavelixWuTang no, but his flow does make him better
makavelilivz 9 months ago
I've always wanted like Lil Wayne or someone to have beef with these guys. They'd get raped.
youR3tard 2 years ago
lol lil wayne n drake n em will stay far away from real hip hop, they dont want to ruin their career by gettin beat by an underground cat.
sprkn1 2 years ago
your so freaking right. i hate listening to that radio shit now adays. after mac dre died is when music started getting really gay.
FernandoMendoza775 2 years ago
Tonedeff is fuckin nasty!!!!
AYVEElol 2 years ago
Tonedeff is sick
RZA is sick too
Why try to bring down one or the other?
They are both people of real hip hop.
Bring down wack rappers not these greats.
alexisNYK1 2 years ago 13
@alexisNYK1 I think it's alright to compare the greats. I enjoy talking real hip hop opinions with true heads. It's not like anyone's saying either of these guys suck, just a debate based on opinion. Now if it were GZA or tone vs. Wayne it'd be a different story.
thehumanfly 1 year ago
@alexisNYK1 GZA not RZA
gbocobo31 1 year ago
if GZA was as famous as tonedeff and you put up this video, we would see who wins
laiserg582 2 years ago
There is indeed- "No one's as gifted or as vigorously meticulous with a writtern scripture
Or spits with this infinite syllablism that Tonedeff's been equipped with..."
GZA's good no doubt and his beats and lyrics are raw as but on a technical level i would even go as far as to say Tonedeff is the best.
laiserg582 2 years ago 2
of course tone is a better rapper, anyone who even has to stop and think about that needs to punch themselves in the face and have their ears removed. unfortunately he just doesnt have much in the way of a great body of work. his beats are average at best, and his singing needs to stop. but yeh apart from that he shits buckets all over the jizzer.
gofaqyosef 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
LoL are people seriously comparing a nobody like Tonedeff to the Gza. I hope and pray Tonedeff gets shot in the face and dies. That way no one will remember him. Tonedeff's style is all homo, hes a bitch. He's no genius, shut up.. Twista, Immortal Technique, Canibus, Ghostface, etc aren't geniuses so fucking stop the claims.
SunnySideUp360 2 years ago
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! you sound like one of those ignorant mainstream hip-hop fans, saying "are people seriously comparing a nobody like Tonedeff to the Gza" hahahah! now thats some homo talk right there, reconize skill and quit the fuckin bullshit, technically TONEDEFF is just on another level, i guess it takes some knowledge to notice that, i personally like gza a lil more, but tone like many other great underrated MCs is too much for the typical ignorant audience.
TRIPLESIXSICCNESS 2 years ago 2
lol how can you compare immortal technique and tonedeff to twista? obviously you don't understand half the stuff immortal says cause he's smarter than you. which probably isnt hard. go get your G.E.D.
CaptainHerbLife9 2 years ago
Tonedeff sounds good but hes way to fast for my liking, I'll stick with the GZA
IKONOCLASM666 2 years ago
if anyone tries to debate my "yeras in the game" search arsenio hall tonedeff, he preformed on arsenio in 93', pretty equal in years in the game, the video is on youtube
swervediggz 2 years ago
Gza's been on since 88
TRIPLESIXSICCNESS 2 years ago
Technicaly / Skill wise = tondeff (no question) that shouldnt even be debatable , the complexity of his lyrics speak for them self
Body of work= gza --no question, but his brother rza produces, put his stuff out..tonedeff produces his own shit puts it out himself,that says alot, not as much time to just focus on lyrics
Content=equal both have deep songs
Overal mc skills/ live show /delivery/years in the game=TONEDEFF
swervediggz 2 years ago
Tonedeff is a genius.
Gza ain't.
Just ... we can't compare.
Seriously, Gza is a good member of wu tang : a good group. But they never gonna be genius...
Radaghal 2 years ago
Tonedeff all the way.
moonsoonmenu 2 years ago
GZA, all day.
ingenuity 2 years ago 2
Tonedeff is waaayy more versitile. listen to "Porcelain" or "My Lady". not to mention he makes beats, freestyles like a beast and runs a record label. I admit archetype wasn't the greatest album but it does showcase how multitalented he is. Can't wait till CatM drops!
regginscanjump 2 years ago
GZA has songs like "Queen's Gambit", where he uses nearly all of the teams in the NFL as regular words and it makes sense too. It's produced by the legendary DJ Muggs of Cypress Hill. Songs like "Labels", where he uses label brand names as regular vocabulary, and "Fame" where he uses the names of famous people. Give those a listen and tell me who's more versatile.
KhudaHeat 2 years ago
thats wu-tang:
Members of the Wu-Tang Clan and their affiliates performing at the Virgin Festival in Baltimore. From left: Mathematics (background), Inspectah Deck, Streetlife, U-God, Cappadonna (crouched), Method Man, GZA, Raekwon, RZA.
Background information
OriginStaten Island, New York, U.S.
Genre(s)East Coast hip hop
Years active1993 present!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Blake2OO7 2 years ago
if u think tonedeff isnt singin as long as wu-tang check the history of rap..
Thats Tonedeff:
Birth nameTony Rojas
OriginNewport News, Virginia, United States
Genre(s)Hip hop
Occupation(s)Rapper, producer, visual artist
Instrument(s)Vocals, piano
Years active1993 to present
Blake2OO7 2 years ago
Gza kills tondeff Wu-tang forever
KazuyaDragon 2 years ago
But personally i like tonedeff. His lyrics borderline genius, and his speed sets fire to the comprehension vectors in your temporal lobe. check out Tonedeff- Velocity.
sheashay 2 years ago 12
I don't understand how you can even compare these two very different types of music. While both are lyrically and rhythmically stimulating, there is the element of speed that sets these too songs in separate categories. Tonedeff who chooses to spit remarkably fast not careing if it leads to fame and fortune or not, and GZA who spits more mellow (from this song any way, haven't listened to any others yet) slower rhymes focusing of a nice flow. I mean its comparing apples and oranges.
sheashay 2 years ago 2
u guys dont know alot about hip-hop if you think Tonedeff is better just cuz of a few good songs/spit from him. GZA is hip-hop history, tonedeff just got started a few years ago. Just know where GZA is compared to tonedeff.
newking 2 years ago
Or, your standards are determined by what others think. I know hip-hop history, and I know that old-school rappers had very simplistic rhyme schemes and little wordplay, despite the celebration of these qualities. Since then, new talent has emerged, but people like you could never admit the newer stuff is better because you are unable to separate record sales, popularity, etc from artistry and skill.
fonne2 2 years ago
Get use to this Gza is better nuff said.
KazuyaDragon 2 years ago
"tonedeff just got started a few years ago" --newking ...his first album droped in 98' , thats over a decade..." guys dont know alot about hip-hop if you think Tonedeff is better just cuz of a few good songs" i've never heard a whak song from him , all quality, i've heard several whak gza songs. Tone has been persistent in the underground for over a decade, its hard to keep going 10 years when your not seeing any money, gza had advantage of having rza as a brother and the wu-tang fame
swervediggz 2 years ago
that doesnt mean tonedeffs better, LOL
he has a few good songs imo.
thats it.
newking 2 years ago
you obviously havent heard that many then , his first album Hyphen EP (almost 10 years old) every song is fire...and his Archetype album is a classic..try listening to some more of his shit before stating that
swervediggz 2 years ago
"When I was learning how to rhyme I was listening to Biz Markie, Beastie Boys, RunDMC and LLCoolJ - early DefJam shit and SHGang. In the spectrum of emceeing as an artform, THAT lyricism wasn't exactly all that, but the feel and the soul was there. Nowadays everybody's doing multi's, different patterns and all types of crazy flows. So the avg kid that comes into the game now is automatically better than emcees 20 yrs ago, he's technically better, not sayin that he's all-around BETTER" - Tonedeff
fonne2 3 years ago
how about, g rap , rakim, big dady kane, to this day hardly anybody can fuck with their best shit,
lvskshyne 3 years ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
As tonedeff explained, those guys set the stage for people like him, and no one is arguing about their originality. But from a technical perspective, their lyrics don't come close. Listen to Kool G Rap, Rakim, and Big Daddy Kane and compare the multisyllables, metaphors, wordplay, cleverness, logic, and overall complexity, and you will be forced to come to this realization if you keep an open mind. Ask yourself beforehand - what criteria determines the perceived level of lyrical skill?
fonne2 3 years ago
damn it would be good to know, what was written before,
lvskshyne 3 years ago
Comment removed
fonne2 3 years ago
Gza is my Fav Wu member. Pass the Bone.
U-God bangs2, and the Rza, has a masters degree in Beatskillz.
Zeronombrezleft 3 years ago
Anyone who says GZA is a complete idiot. GZA spits monosyllabic simplistic kindergarten rhymes. If you like him more it's either because hes famous or because he is rapping about drugs and glocks (thug shit). Tonedeff's first verse is all on the same multi rhyme scheme. On his 3rd verse, he makes every syllable of every line rhyme, all the while staying on beat. How do you guys not hear this? Do you know how hard that is?
fonne2 3 years ago
agreed, too many unintelligent listeners.
skawt 3 years ago
GZA metaphors, wordplay, and concepts are better..
Liquid Swords shits on Archetype!
zysano1 2 years ago
Please point out examples of these "better" metaphors and wordplay, because imo they are just not that impressive. As I stated before, tonedeff's multi's are impossible to compete with. GZA is straight monosyllable with corny metaphors. As for concepts, you don't need to rap about "thug shit" to be hip-hop. Gangsta rap is a sub-genre.
fonne2 2 years ago
you clearly never heard a gza song if you think hes a gangsta rapper ...
listen to Fame or Queens Gambit and tell me his wordplay is not amazing ..
zysano1 2 years ago
does anyone remember the song "more than this" by tonedeff?
SofaKingAwesome23 3 years ago
Tonedeff is often compared to Twista and other fast rappers, while he can stand the comparison with top lyricists. This shows how versatile he is, an amazing rapper. You may add his skills in production, singing and graphic design and get an amazing artist.
Still, I think lyrically I am with GZA. This is mainly because Tone has lines which turn out wrong. Both are top notch. Overall, I like Tone better. He combines the skills of a whole fucking band in one person.
Bauchnabenpopel 3 years ago
My vote goes to GZA. Tonedeff sounds like he's saying some smart shit but it sound maddd corny
rawked 3 years ago
theyre two completely different sick artists just enjoy them
monkis50 3 years ago 3
tonedeff rulez, no doubt
SGGranit 3 years ago 2
Tone can rap fast and that about it. But GZA speaks the language of the streets on the first time. Instead of rewinding it 100x.
swordsmengod 3 years ago
Tone Def ain't spitting mathematics. GZA all day everyday.
swordsmengod 3 years ago 2
Personally i prefer Tonedeff,cant even listen to Wu tang in general..all that kung fu crap aint for me...
but a lame comparison btw
ScarDawg06 3 years ago
Tonedeff is lyrically number 1 MC, period.
InSanoG 3 years ago
i like both of them but gza is better
zysano1 3 years ago 3
If you actually listen and understand GZA's lyrics and metaphors GZA makes tonedeff look like a school boy.
diderr01 3 years ago 2
i like tonedeff more... but thats my opinion.
but fact is, both are really good rappers
SGGranit 3 years ago 3
fuck who's better of the two, we should be trying to see them collab instead and enjoy real hip hop!
amplifysoul 3 years ago 3
Damn No Competition! Fuck The Uploader For This Video
JazzarBizzle2006 3 years ago 3
wtf i meant to say and Immortaltechnique fans go study up on yo the history.
darkmonkey309 3 years ago
gza is more lyrical cause every line he spits means more and hits harder then tonedeff. if it wasnt for wu tang i bet tonedeff wouldnt be as good as he is because wu tang is the most insparational lyrical act in hip hop history. so u jmt dick riders go and I
darkmonkey309 3 years ago
I dont know about GZA but Tone is tough competition with songs like...
Masochist
Optimist
My Lady
No Hope
Porcelain
The Gates
Tone is a superior hip hop artist that much of hip hop has yet to achieve in status. The metaphor argument is rather weak. I hear it all the time and yet rappers with just metaphors concentrate too hard on trying to sound intelligent that they fail to convey everything that goes into music in general-emotion, relating to people.
bonethgs2212 3 years ago
to the one who vote against GZA fuck you
there is no comparison to tonedeff and GZA ,Gza is deeper in the rap game ,why do u think tonedeff aint even know as much as GZA he is the genuis, he is one of the parts that made the WU-TANG CLAN know as it is today
RH12017 3 years ago
who doesnt know this?
SickeninglyILL 3 years ago
GZA is lyrically one of the greatest of all time. His style is also what makes him so great. While tonedeff is good he is not in GZA's league. Also GZA is not that popular of an MC like some of you make him out to be ODB and Method Man were the real popular people in Wu-tang.
arhymemaster 3 years ago
what you talkin bout
method man and rza were the most famous
ghostface was known as the most consistent, masta killa and u god as the most quiet and odb the most dirty
but i agree with what u said prior to dat shit
ricochetshotz 3 years ago
the only thing that gza has on tone is his metaphors, other than that, tone takes everything.
TRIPLESIXSICCNESS 3 years ago
Tonedeff is not in GZA's league. GZA is more lyrical, has a laid back wise flow compared to Tonedeff's lightning fast flow, is more influential, but i would say both him and tonedeff are pretty equal in their pure rapping ability.
arhymemaster 3 years ago
Tone has a corny ass voice, thats for sure, but hes still damn good
SickeninglyILL 3 years ago
tone d has sick flow but his lyrics cant compete with gza's
Gza36Chambers 3 years ago
haha?
good one?
tone lyrics are much superior
TRIPLESIXSICCNESS 3 years ago 2