Can someone explain to me why Beatrice is so upset over this "Battler's sin that he committed 6 years ago"? Based on what I heard from the people who own the game, Battler's sin has something to do with a promise he made with Shannon. Even Beatrice herself says that the sin has nothing to do with her but I get the feeling that she is lying. I think it is related to her in some way but how is that possible? Are Beatrice and Shannon one in body and mind or something?
@Sassygir1s2 I think the "sin" was that Battler forgot his promise, like you said. Before the start of the series, when Battler was younger, he made a promise to Shannon that he would marry her. Of course, being a kid you would have forgotten about that as you get older. Him forgetting I guess left an impact on Shannon. As for the connection between her and Beatrice, I don't really know. Sorry. ^^;
@yukariminato Its glanced upon in the anime but made clear in the visual novel: Battler promised to take Shannon away from Rokkenjima the next time they met. Before the next family meeting, Battler left the family after his dad remarried so he missed the family meeting and broke Shannon's heart.
I just understood the main ideas of this show, and how it compares to real life. It's like the battle between religion and atheism. The witch Beatrice tries to prove to Battler, the non-believer, that she is indeed a witch by showing him things that can't be proven logically or scientifically. Battler goes and tries to prove her wrong with logic and science (often quite absurd logic). That's the gist what it seems like to me, anyway.
@Netugi Well the main thing is to take what you can from a situation, however looking at it in black and white it is NOT about religion just magic, (and no! organized belief and magic are NOT the same) but a similar point. magic helps people who don't understand a situation to cope, and for those of us who dont give into such belief it is ponting out there is nothing wrong with doing so and we dont need to rain on their parade so to speak.
@Netugi Maybe, like I said though what matters is what YOU can take from it! if the message means nothing to you it's useless after all right? But after watching more (now finished) I find the message seems to be more self focused, as in not even worrying about others and believing what you want, because magic (belief) is an irreplaceable outlet for frustration. I dont want to ruin how they say if you havent finished but I loved the message of this anime, changed my view a lot.
Battler's sin 6 years ago is about him and Shannon, he said that he'll come back for her but never came back..(because he run away from home when his father remarried) Shannon waited for him for 6 years and suffered.. so she give her love to Beatrice (that bud of love created Beato?) so Shannon and Beato are kinda.. connected?
@109funtime They tell what his sin is in these episodes. Whenever a character talks about Battler's youth listen to them. Theres one memory in particular of one character in particular that's Battler's sin.
Huh...okay, just to get this out there and out of the way, does Battler's sin have anything to do with something he may have said to Shannon six years ago? In episode 12 he was comically freaking out about how he said embarrassing things six years ago. It's a bit far-fetched I suppose, but at this point it's the only thing we know he did on this island six years ago, isn't it? Or maybe I overlooked some detail somewhere...
In any case, Shannon seems way more important than she appears to be.
@Kerkec ding ding ding ding ding. you are correct. they mentioned it at that same time too. rewatch it and see if you can see what battler said to shannon.
@TheKenpachi32 They never really mention who Battler's mom is. Kyrie is actually Battler's stepmother. She didn't give birth to him. I won't give it away, but things are not what they seem.
@KaoruHitachiinBunny Battler is the bastard child of Asamu and Rudolf. Kyrie at the time was with Rudolf, and Asamu was a fling that resulted in Battler's conception. I'm kind of confused regarding Ange though, since they never said Asamu had Battler AND Ange.
@LunerNeko Battler wasn't a bastard - Asumu and Rudolf were already married - Kyrie was present first, but she was definitely the "mistress" of the situation. Rudolf was just a bit of a man-slut.
Battler was born to Asumu after she married Rudolf. After Asumu died, Rudolf married Kyrie, who was either already knocked up with Ange, or he knocked her up pretty immediately. Thus, Battler and Ange are presented as half-siblings.
Of course, there's the chance they're really full-sibling...
This is a stupid theory... but do you think Battler committed his "sin" against the human Beatrice, somehow, instead of the witch Beatrice? Human Beatrice had already been dead for 14 years, but still...
Oh and about the beginning of part 3, Battler didn't use blue, so doesn't that mean Beatrice didn't have to use the red? Or am I completely wrong and just confused?
There is actually a popular (yet infamous) theory about Battler committing a sin against the human Beatrice (though not the one you think). It's called the "Pony Theory". Look it up through Google Images; the first image should be the one to explain what it is about.
Basically, Battler's sin (according to the theory) is making a false promise to a naive Beatrice (not realizing she would take it seriously), which leads to a series of complex events that ultimately results in the witch legend being cranked up to eleven and someone taking advantage of the legend to commit the murders. Therefore, people die because of Battler's sin.
What an idiot, Battler! She gave you a chance to use the red text, so you should've said "Witches don't exist" and this whole thing would be over. If you couldn't say it, then checkmate for Beatrice.
Of course, that would've been an extremely anti-climactic ending to this story, but still, Battler didn't even think about it.
@Ladyluck229 That's an stalemate, it was explained by Ronove with the same words on Banquet of the golden witch. I would not be surprised if the anime cut this really.
@Ladyluck229 Ooooh. Youre so smart. If battler says in red "witches don't exist", it would be a draw (or a tie, Im not sure how the term is in english) on the game, just like in chess; there would be no winner and the game would get paralyze for the rest of eternity.
But, anyway, I can't blame you about that if you haven't read the novel. That's something which Ronove explains on the sound novel. It wouldn't surprise me if DEEN cut that part on the anime...
Mmm, so far i've liked the background music, is a shame they didn't added Dread of the grave to the TV OST: Red Rose. Although, i liked their dreamenddischarger version, and i'm sooooo up to watch them use it in the next episodes :D
Right now, we can say that Kumasawa (who is Virgillia) and Genji (who is Ronove) are accomplices of this "Beatrice". Meaning, they could have killed themselves a.k.a commit suicide in the garage. We can also say that this "Beatrice" is "friends" with Maria.
Genji did not died at the garden shed, he died in the first twiligh, being the 3rd to be killied by the siestas. The was that died in the garden shed along with Kumasawa was Gohda.
hmmm.. could Beatrice be Jessica? Look at how they dress and their hairstyles! Although Jessica is madly in love with Kanon, not Battler, so I think it's impossible that out of nowhere Jessica goes yandere with Battler. So we can take out that Jessica's love is the "sin".
Battler is not Asumu's son, but is Rudolf's son and Kinzo's grandson. So he will return to the game in episode 25 or 26 [which one of them is the last one of the first season I guess, most likely episode 25].
And my own question thing, battler was able to say battler blah blah is Asuma's son, but when he could say I AM , makes me wonder what the hell happened to the REAL Battler. Obviously, the real Battler did something 6 years ago. Who is he, and what the hell did he do that would bring Beatrice into this game, anyway?
That's true, he cant even say in red "I was born", the third word brings red mode crashing down. Perhaps its a hailback to Shakespear's Macbeth, who could only be killed by one "Who was not of woman-born", which was gotten around via cascerian section, hence not being 'traditionally born' in the strictest sense. Could be what's tripping him up here, or just another false lead. :S
Woah, when you went shakespear on me, you totally lost me. xD Until I read it again.
I think that may or may not be the case here. Although, I've read around... [ It's amazing how much character bios can spoil an anime for you. ] I finally know the killer, But nothing about this mother. . I am sure it will be revealed though..
I just hope they dont do like they did in higurashi... if Keichi never killed Satako's uncle, where in the HELL did he go?
No, I believe that was Rena in her arc. But in Satako's questions arc, Keichi beats her uncle ha ha ha's about it... then the next day everyone thinks he is crazy. Satako says her uncle is still there when he is clearly not. The only thing I think happened was keichi DID kill her uncle, but Mion and them hid his body. They tried to make it the perfect murder by giving him an alibi and such to hide the crime. But Keichi was too paranoid to see it, as well as Satako.
It wouldn't be the first time Battler's broken down, admitted she was real, then recanted and decided to renew his disbelief, accompanied by a new whacky theory later on, or just plain pig ignorance. A temporary, immediate break-down, doesn't yet mean anything, until he solidly accepts that reality in hindsight and cannot form a response to it by the end of the game.
It is a contradiction, but the terms of the game isn't actually to deny the existence of witches across reality and the world itself, just that neither witchcraft nor magic were involved in the murders, summarily known as the Rokkenjima Incident. This would mean the witch could exist still, or be an inconsiquential figment of the imagination. So he only needs to deny all the effects she has on reality, the whole "The answer everybody accepts is effectively the truth" line of logic.
Hang on a second, has Beatrice just jumped to Anti-Magic? :P She's stated that the sin is not between her and Battler, yet the sin is the motivating factor for the murders, but if the sin wasn't against her, but against somebody else, that would mean that sin, master murderer, and all are in the logical, mystery world and not by a magical motivation. In other words, Battler's sin being both critical and not against Beatrice decreases the likelihood of the culprit actually being Beatrice...
@s2k997: Besides the fact that Beato WAS a human, Beatrice is the personification of the real murderer. The sin most likely isn't against "Beatrice" but to the murderer. Or in all Battler's sin could be linked to the Murders as it is ONE OF THE CAUSES TO THIS TRAGEDY. All in all the murderer is most likely a Female or Amakusa Juuza.
Ah, but if we take with the 'magic' explaination she wants us to believe in, then she's not a personification at all, hence doesn't have that connection. My arguement was on the hinging definition between realities; if she isn't a persona and is real, yet the motivation for the murders that was /red/ in the visual novel was (not 'could', RED = Certainty; "it IS") with somebody else, the motivation for the murders goes into a contradiction. Or Beatrice killed them while somebody else compelled.
That's the third time old Kinzo has gone up in flames, if we look at the 'magical explaination' as simply the irrelivant explaination to be discarded, that just leaves us with Kinzo being repeatedly barbaqued. Burning a dead body is a good way to hide how long it has been dead for, so if he was to have died in the last few weeks, the non-magical explaination could be that he was thrown on the fire by...let's say Krauss, to hide that he's already been dead for some time, as suspected.
Nothing to go on Maria's fate. As far as my theory went, following the murders of the siblings rivals to Krauss and Kyrie claiming the jackpot; they aimed to split up the remaining 'sheep' and deal with them as need be. Maria could have been carted off, useful as somebody that can be easily manipulated (she seemed to respond with the person on the phone, who identified themself as Beatrice as if she knew them) or she could have simply been picked up and snapped like a twig once no longer useful.
That's the alternative to a magical explaination, that somebody, or a group of people, plot to murder many of the others for some reason, then carry it out, with Beatrice portraying their inginuity as her magic. Or if you believe in Virgilia's quantum answer, the answer is both yes and no until you solidly prove one case or the other, and the answer shapes reality.
While everyone is discussing about sins here, there is also one important part in this episode that has to be taken into consideration. Why did Kyrie, who is such a strong non-believer of magic, try to convince Battler to believe in magic? Point of the game is to prove that the murders are not caused by magic, so what did Kyrie see kill the previous 4 that make her say that to Battler?
Mm< maybe She is the one who can be blamed? Then, it means Kyrie is the murderer, but se is the figure who had to be innocent as it was said by Battler. Maybe, that was not she, who told it all? And what was the sin? And, God damn it, who's son is Battler, can his mother be the woman tat is hunting after Ange?
The answer to me, is a conspiracy. We're supposed to believe by pure chance that individually Gohda+Kumasawa, Jessica, Kyrie, Krauss all decided to reach out to Battler for some reason; to warn him of magic? Either they suddently converted thier philosophies, or its a conspiracy to manipulate him.
I think the magical characters are metaphors, like Eva-Beatrice was only Eva's killing spree. Virgilia is Kumasawa, Kyrie = Gaap, Jessica = Beatrice, Gohda = Kinzo. No confirmation of deaths yet.
The 'murderers' may be something like: Krauss, Kumasawa, Kyrie, Gohda, and possibly Shannon and others, aiming to kill Kinzo's children because they had called thier bluff on if he was still alive or not. They then sought to muddle the matter up through blaming 'magic', keeping Battler and the others investigating the main mansion. The group was then split up, so Gohda+Kumasawa could rejoin, kill George, and get Jessica away to perform as Beatrice for Maria and Battler. Less deaths than shown.
@Solitaired: I have to say that the point the phone calls make was to break Battler down that way he will end up believing in magic. As you said Kyrie is a strong person who doesn't believe in nonsense but if she were to believe then Battler will most likely believe. But to me these phone calls seem fake...
Yep, now I am not sure in this call. But I still don't think that Jessica is connected with murders. There is something strange with the call. But the most importantquestion for me is about maria's test.
Mm, the dame with me... But may I try at leats? I still do not understand Virgilia's and Ronove's roles. Who are they? Jessica faught with him so if she is inocent thatmeans that Jessica ught an unknown man. Yep?
The fight may not have happened at all. If Battler didn't witness it, it isn't certain to have happened. And if Jessica was playing Beatrice's role later, its likely she is alive and on thier side, as Battler never even checked to see if she was dead. Ronove said himself he was a representation of Genji the head butler, and the Virgilia = Kumasawa was shown in the third game. Those answers can be taken as agiven, no better alternative reasons come to mind.
For a while before this, I've thought what the "Sin" could be. I think Battler may have commited a sin without knowing it was a sin...
I made a thoery after thinking about it for a while. What if Battler broke somone's heart?(possibly the murderers heart) The way Beato portrays love, pretty much as being sacred, to break a person's heart, especially a woman's heart, is the greatest sin a man can commit.
This could also be the reason for the murders. The murderer might be a Tsundere.
Ushiromiya Battler commited the sin, but if our Battler isn't Ushiromiya Battler, then he wouldn't remember the sin, right? I think that's the reason why Beatrice suddenly got upset and erased him through proving that Asumu is not his birth mother. ....at the same time, he's not related to Kinzo through his mother, so a proper test would be making him repeat his father's parternal qualifications in red instead.
Going off the red truth. In the long run, it seems like the theme for Umineko is love, like forgiveness was for Higurashi. I'm starting to look at Shannon and the other servant.(Ruron was his/her name?)
Beato looked heartbroken cause Battler can't remember... I think that's the murderer as Beato.
Think about it, why would Battler's test be about somone he loved the most, and when he said he didn't like anyone like that, Human Beato looked hurt.
To me it's hard to tell if she is human or not. I mean that she was human at one point however now she is suppose to be dead... my point being is their a real Beato or is Piece-Battler having a conversation with the murderer "Beatrice"?
Thank you for "friend" - sounds so warm. But I wish she came a bit earlier)) Maybe the the woman we see is a bit like Rica Fururde who had two minds in one body?
Hey no problem :D. About Erika, from what I looked up she is suppose to be an arrogant 2nd rate Detective. We just have to wait and see when the translation comes out.
Of course! There's still two moar episodes in this one and then there will be an Umineko No Naku Koro Ni Chiru once the EPs 6-8 of the SN are released. EP5 is out, but it will not be made into anime until it can be fit into a season with the other upcoming arcs.
So...sad...poor Beato...I'm really eager to know what Battler's "sin" was though. I'm betting that it has to do with a possible imaginary friend!Beato (summoned by Maria) and him denying witches and the occult. Might be why she seems to really want him to accept her existance as a witch.
It's funny how Bernkastel, Lambdadelta and Ange doesn't even flinch when he can't tell them that -he- is the son of Ushiromiya Asumu. I mean sure, Bernkastel probably wouldn't, but I thought atleast Ange would be surprised? Oh well, this was one kickass episode!
Guy's I found out the sad truth Shannon's breast are fake..........Wep
justinode 1 month ago
Can someone explain to me why Beatrice is so upset over this "Battler's sin that he committed 6 years ago"? Based on what I heard from the people who own the game, Battler's sin has something to do with a promise he made with Shannon. Even Beatrice herself says that the sin has nothing to do with her but I get the feeling that she is lying. I think it is related to her in some way but how is that possible? Are Beatrice and Shannon one in body and mind or something?
Sassygir1s2 1 month ago
@Sassygir1s2 I think the "sin" was that Battler forgot his promise, like you said. Before the start of the series, when Battler was younger, he made a promise to Shannon that he would marry her. Of course, being a kid you would have forgotten about that as you get older. Him forgetting I guess left an impact on Shannon. As for the connection between her and Beatrice, I don't really know. Sorry. ^^;
AngelicGaleSama 1 week ago
If you finish the games for umineko, this scene is really sad! Poor Beatrice! Battler is so stupid to forget his promise with you!!
popohearts 3 months ago
what was the sin?! O_O
yukariminato 3 months ago
@yukariminato Its glanced upon in the anime but made clear in the visual novel: Battler promised to take Shannon away from Rokkenjima the next time they met. Before the next family meeting, Battler left the family after his dad remarried so he missed the family meeting and broke Shannon's heart.
shidousama 2 months ago
I got the feeling that Beatrice has some sorta of feeling towards battler...but i just cna't shake the feeling...six years ago...
greencomet2011 3 months ago
@greencomet2011 Yeah. Beatrice does have feelings for Battler cause of six years ago.
popohearts 3 months ago
"I always looked down on her for being such a little girl" I guess He was born full grown then? I seriously hate that guy.
natemorey 4 months ago
@NipahMal hm.. not really Lion.. because Lion is one of the personalities.. its Yasu ^^
aNgELoVdArKnEzZ 5 months ago
I wonder what Battlers sin of six years was. :O
Yuna425 5 months ago
0:25 reminds me of what that freaky Spider Splicer said in Bioshock 2
"Stop lookin at me with ALL YOUR EYES!!!!"
OtakuEpsilonStation 5 months ago
@OtakuEpsilonStation oops I meant 0:22
OtakuEpsilonStation 5 months ago
Kyrie is Battler's real mother just that Rudolf switched the babies around.
animefanumineko 6 months ago
wait....... is Beatrice... Battler's mom?
Hitsugayasgirl15 6 months ago
@Hitsugayasgirl15 haha thats what I am thinking
natemorey 4 months ago
I just understood the main ideas of this show, and how it compares to real life. It's like the battle between religion and atheism. The witch Beatrice tries to prove to Battler, the non-believer, that she is indeed a witch by showing him things that can't be proven logically or scientifically. Battler goes and tries to prove her wrong with logic and science (often quite absurd logic). That's the gist what it seems like to me, anyway.
Netugi 7 months ago
@Netugi Well the main thing is to take what you can from a situation, however looking at it in black and white it is NOT about religion just magic, (and no! organized belief and magic are NOT the same) but a similar point. magic helps people who don't understand a situation to cope, and for those of us who dont give into such belief it is ponting out there is nothing wrong with doing so and we dont need to rain on their parade so to speak.
natemorey 4 months ago
@natemorey Yeah, I suppose that's more accurate than what I said. And I agree with it.
Netugi 4 months ago
@Netugi Maybe, like I said though what matters is what YOU can take from it! if the message means nothing to you it's useless after all right? But after watching more (now finished) I find the message seems to be more self focused, as in not even worrying about others and believing what you want, because magic (belief) is an irreplaceable outlet for frustration. I dont want to ruin how they say if you havent finished but I loved the message of this anime, changed my view a lot.
natemorey 4 months ago
@natemorey Nah, I finished it like, probably a year ago or something. Maybe less.
Netugi 4 months ago
SPOILERS:
Battler's sin 6 years ago is about him and Shannon, he said that he'll come back for her but never came back..(because he run away from home when his father remarried) Shannon waited for him for 6 years and suffered.. so she give her love to Beatrice (that bud of love created Beato?) so Shannon and Beato are kinda.. connected?
aNgELoVdArKnEzZ 8 months ago
"Why don't we roast you?" I was waiting for that xD Thanks, Beato <3
JackKuirser 8 months ago
i dont know maybe his sin was..........llike killing his mother or something well is kinda complecaded in this point of view
109funtime 10 months ago
@109funtime They tell what his sin is in these episodes. Whenever a character talks about Battler's youth listen to them. Theres one memory in particular of one character in particular that's Battler's sin.
Asgard314 8 months ago
i thought the sin was when battler said witches dont exist
XxtsunamidevilxX 11 months ago
Huh...okay, just to get this out there and out of the way, does Battler's sin have anything to do with something he may have said to Shannon six years ago? In episode 12 he was comically freaking out about how he said embarrassing things six years ago. It's a bit far-fetched I suppose, but at this point it's the only thing we know he did on this island six years ago, isn't it? Or maybe I overlooked some detail somewhere...
In any case, Shannon seems way more important than she appears to be.
Kerkec 11 months ago
@Kerkec ding ding ding ding ding. you are correct. they mentioned it at that same time too. rewatch it and see if you can see what battler said to shannon.
and yes... it is such a little thing....
digitalpiggy193 11 months ago
@Kerkec Yup, you're right. You're also right about your second statement as well.
magicalmerge 11 months ago
@KealymLW That Kyrie is Rudolf's mistress.
TheDarknessIsMyLight 1 year ago
poor beato =(
Lustikk 1 year ago
Did Maria die????
SFGK 1 year ago
The sin? Maybe Battler attempted to commit suicide or something after Asumu's death.
brokensoul8390 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@brokensoul8390 [Red]Knox's 8th, It is forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not presented.[/Red]
s2k997 1 year ago
Let's roast a whole cow! lol
MahBoiOrMyBoy 1 year ago 3
I'm guessing Battler's real mom is Kyrie then. I don't buy the idea that Beatrice is Battler's mom...that'd be stupid and weird
TheKenpachi32 1 year ago
@TheKenpachi32 They never really mention who Battler's mom is. Kyrie is actually Battler's stepmother. She didn't give birth to him. I won't give it away, but things are not what they seem.
MariaBernkastel 1 year ago
lez roast u instead
GAAAHHH!
MrAlice25 1 year ago
Hey, Bern, do you have a poem for this too?
NyanKuroKoneko 1 year ago
Wonder what kind of answer that Maria chose to pass, or perhaps the reasoning be hind it.
bleachboy14 1 year ago
0:32
Battler lied, people died!
MoDustfinger 1 year ago
They just love frying the grandpa don't they?
Ricecakeish 1 year ago 65
@Ricecakeish
And who can blame them? >D
TheGilgameshGirl 9 months ago
I'm sory, I've completely forgotten, who is Asumu and I thought that Kyrie was Battlers mum?! Have I been wrong the whole time?
KaoruHitachiinBunny 1 year ago
@KaoruHitachiinBunny Battler is the bastard child of Asamu and Rudolf. Kyrie at the time was with Rudolf, and Asamu was a fling that resulted in Battler's conception. I'm kind of confused regarding Ange though, since they never said Asamu had Battler AND Ange.
LunerNeko 1 year ago
@LunerNeko Battler wasn't a bastard - Asumu and Rudolf were already married - Kyrie was present first, but she was definitely the "mistress" of the situation. Rudolf was just a bit of a man-slut.
Battler was born to Asumu after she married Rudolf. After Asumu died, Rudolf married Kyrie, who was either already knocked up with Ange, or he knocked her up pretty immediately. Thus, Battler and Ange are presented as half-siblings.
Of course, there's the chance they're really full-sibling...
KealymLW 1 year ago 3
@KealymLW Is this a fact or a theory?
TheDarknessIsMyLight 1 year ago
@TheDarknessIsMyLight Is what a fact?
KealymLW 1 year ago
I think his sin was that he didn't aknownledge Beato... Maybe. It would make a lot of sense since he 'killed many'.
TheCivvy 1 year ago
2:43 : Battler, Beato just needs a hug :D <3 .
Ch0uLuv 2 years ago
Urghh, I want to know Battler's sin :(
Orplie 2 years ago 2
丸焼きｗｗひでぇｗｗ
riho2222 2 years ago
Speculation #1: Jessica, or somebody sounding like Jessica, called Battler.
Speculation #2: Battler's mom, or someone sounding like Battler's mom, called Battler.
Fact #1: Battler definitely saw somebody up there.
archfruit 2 years ago
「俺の名前はうしろみやばとらだ」って復唱してほしいんだが
tpagtfn9 2 years ago
This is a stupid theory... but do you think Battler committed his "sin" against the human Beatrice, somehow, instead of the witch Beatrice? Human Beatrice had already been dead for 14 years, but still...
Oh and about the beginning of part 3, Battler didn't use blue, so doesn't that mean Beatrice didn't have to use the red? Or am I completely wrong and just confused?
Pingypong101 2 years ago
@Pingypong101
There is actually a popular (yet infamous) theory about Battler committing a sin against the human Beatrice (though not the one you think). It's called the "Pony Theory". Look it up through Google Images; the first image should be the one to explain what it is about.
lera980 1 year ago
@lera980
Infamous? Huh?
I read the theory, and it's interesting and such, but I don't know how you can tie it into the murders, or how people died because of it... o.o
Pingypong101 1 year ago
@Pingypong101
Basically, Battler's sin (according to the theory) is making a false promise to a naive Beatrice (not realizing she would take it seriously), which leads to a series of complex events that ultimately results in the witch legend being cranked up to eleven and someone taking advantage of the legend to commit the murders. Therefore, people die because of Battler's sin.
lera980 1 year ago
....omg what was that sin he commited!!!!!!!!!!.....
also..what if Buttler is Beatrice's son or something...
kikicat5 2 years ago
...eh?
dundeecake 2 years ago
pheeeeeeeeeeew!!! i thought this was the las ep ahhahaha XD
ToguroKun 2 years ago
:o nu way!!!
demongirl22 2 years ago
What an idiot, Battler! She gave you a chance to use the red text, so you should've said "Witches don't exist" and this whole thing would be over. If you couldn't say it, then checkmate for Beatrice.
Of course, that would've been an extremely anti-climactic ending to this story, but still, Battler didn't even think about it.
Ladyluck229 2 years ago 68
@Ladyluck229 i was thinking the same thing
impazeldalinkin 1 year ago
@Ladyluck229 and it wouldnt work because it is too general of a statement, that goes against the rules of using red truth.
keybladeblastcalibur 1 year ago
@Ladyluck229 That's an stalemate, it was explained by Ronove with the same words on Banquet of the golden witch. I would not be surprised if the anime cut this really.
moichispa 8 months ago
@Ladyluck229 Ooooh. Youre so smart. If battler says in red "witches don't exist", it would be a draw (or a tie, Im not sure how the term is in english) on the game, just like in chess; there would be no winner and the game would get paralyze for the rest of eternity.
But, anyway, I can't blame you about that if you haven't read the novel. That's something which Ronove explains on the sound novel. It wouldn't surprise me if DEEN cut that part on the anime...
Shintsukii 3 weeks ago
Thanks for the translation, that's a very good job ;3
Rixika91 2 years ago
cant battler argue that he is a ushiromiya, from his fathers side not his mothers? that way he still would be kinzo's grandson
vaan123456789 2 years ago
He could but he was too shocked to think about an old fart when the only parent he ever loved was actually not related to him
RikkuKirasagi 2 years ago 3
Mmm, so far i've liked the background music, is a shame they didn't added Dread of the grave to the TV OST: Red Rose. Although, i liked their dreamenddischarger version, and i'm sooooo up to watch them use it in the next episodes :D
Noirtwilight 2 years ago
Right now, we can say that Kumasawa (who is Virgillia) and Genji (who is Ronove) are accomplices of this "Beatrice". Meaning, they could have killed themselves a.k.a commit suicide in the garage. We can also say that this "Beatrice" is "friends" with Maria.
801Milcah 2 years ago
Genji did not died at the garden shed, he died in the first twiligh, being the 3rd to be killied by the siestas. The was that died in the garden shed along with Kumasawa was Gohda.
Mavellee 2 years ago
I know it was Gohda. The one I'm talking about is Kumasawa. Since she is Virgilla, she might have killed Gohda first, then hanged herself.
801Milcah 2 years ago
hmmm.. could Beatrice be Jessica? Look at how they dress and their hairstyles! Although Jessica is madly in love with Kanon, not Battler, so I think it's impossible that out of nowhere Jessica goes yandere with Battler. So we can take out that Jessica's love is the "sin".
801Milcah 2 years ago
I'm not sure I understand. How was Meta-Battler refusing to use the red truth?
poookkkeeeemmmoonn 2 years ago
You can't refuse to say something you can't say. ;)
KawaiiDesuNekoBCSK 2 years ago 5
Thank you so much!
poookkkeeeemmmoonn 2 years ago
Holy shit, they didn't show the scene where the two Beatrices [meta-Beatrice and game board-Beatrice] talk with each other.
SoldierGray 2 years ago
Beatrice prefers roasting pigs, not cows.
emtobed 2 years ago
[SPOILER]
Battler is not Asumu's son, but is Rudolf's son and Kinzo's grandson. So he will return to the game in episode 25 or 26 [which one of them is the last one of the first season I guess, most likely episode 25].
SoldierGray 2 years ago
And my own question thing, battler was able to say battler blah blah is Asuma's son, but when he could say I AM , makes me wonder what the hell happened to the REAL Battler. Obviously, the real Battler did something 6 years ago. Who is he, and what the hell did he do that would bring Beatrice into this game, anyway?
wolfeyesmariah 2 years ago
That's true, he cant even say in red "I was born", the third word brings red mode crashing down. Perhaps its a hailback to Shakespear's Macbeth, who could only be killed by one "Who was not of woman-born", which was gotten around via cascerian section, hence not being 'traditionally born' in the strictest sense. Could be what's tripping him up here, or just another false lead. :S
s2k997 2 years ago
Woah, when you went shakespear on me, you totally lost me. xD Until I read it again.
I think that may or may not be the case here. Although, I've read around... [ It's amazing how much character bios can spoil an anime for you. ] I finally know the killer, But nothing about this mother. . I am sure it will be revealed though..
I just hope they dont do like they did in higurashi... if Keichi never killed Satako's uncle, where in the HELL did he go?
wolfeyesmariah 2 years ago
I heard Keiichi actually killed Satako's Uncle's girlfriend.
Darkever84 2 years ago
No, I believe that was Rena in her arc. But in Satako's questions arc, Keichi beats her uncle ha ha ha's about it... then the next day everyone thinks he is crazy. Satako says her uncle is still there when he is clearly not. The only thing I think happened was keichi DID kill her uncle, but Mion and them hid his body. They tried to make it the perfect murder by giving him an alibi and such to hide the crime. But Keichi was too paranoid to see it, as well as Satako.
wolfeyesmariah 2 years ago
He did say "I was born" in red in the novel I believe. The Red becoming white text when he said Asumu.
LordRaikon 2 years ago
Forgive me but;
2:26 I WAS FROZEN TODAY!
FuryEngel 2 years ago 5
So, Battler met "Beatrice" in the gameboard. This leads me to think that Beatrice is Jessica. Who else could have passed off as Beatrice?
Not Nanjo I'm sure, and neither Magical Gohda Chef.
neh1234 2 years ago
Nobody "Passed" as her. Battler recognized her existence in that scene. She even threw away the umbrella in the SN.
KawaiiDesuNekoBCSK 2 years ago
It wouldn't be the first time Battler's broken down, admitted she was real, then recanted and decided to renew his disbelief, accompanied by a new whacky theory later on, or just plain pig ignorance. A temporary, immediate break-down, doesn't yet mean anything, until he solidly accepts that reality in hindsight and cannot form a response to it by the end of the game.
s2k997 2 years ago
hello, Nice theories you have there, but if you dont matter I have a smal question: How can you deny a witch you are actualy playing with?
AngelofHell1311 2 years ago
It is a contradiction, but the terms of the game isn't actually to deny the existence of witches across reality and the world itself, just that neither witchcraft nor magic were involved in the murders, summarily known as the Rokkenjima Incident. This would mean the witch could exist still, or be an inconsiquential figment of the imagination. So he only needs to deny all the effects she has on reality, the whole "The answer everybody accepts is effectively the truth" line of logic.
s2k997 2 years ago
Well, actually, originally Battler's argument was that witches don't exist period. And somewhere along the line, he's changed his argument.
LeoandTrina 2 years ago
15 episodes marathon
2 left
2 more weeks
FUFUFUFUFUFUFUFU
osofrontinoquantico 2 years ago 2
theres 2 more episodes. . .. o.o
kappiecandy 2 years ago
Hang on a second, has Beatrice just jumped to Anti-Magic? :P She's stated that the sin is not between her and Battler, yet the sin is the motivating factor for the murders, but if the sin wasn't against her, but against somebody else, that would mean that sin, master murderer, and all are in the logical, mystery world and not by a magical motivation. In other words, Battler's sin being both critical and not against Beatrice decreases the likelihood of the culprit actually being Beatrice...
s2k997 2 years ago
@s2k997: Besides the fact that Beato WAS a human, Beatrice is the personification of the real murderer. The sin most likely isn't against "Beatrice" but to the murderer. Or in all Battler's sin could be linked to the Murders as it is ONE OF THE CAUSES TO THIS TRAGEDY. All in all the murderer is most likely a Female or Amakusa Juuza.
MrBoynton27 2 years ago
Ah, but if we take with the 'magic' explaination she wants us to believe in, then she's not a personification at all, hence doesn't have that connection. My arguement was on the hinging definition between realities; if she isn't a persona and is real, yet the motivation for the murders that was /red/ in the visual novel was (not 'could', RED = Certainty; "it IS") with somebody else, the motivation for the murders goes into a contradiction. Or Beatrice killed them while somebody else compelled.
s2k997 2 years ago
The love confession... The love confession isn't there...
I've lost all hope... D:
Kirroha 2 years ago 6
Kinzo...nice fire
NUNON115 2 years ago
Now I even start to wonder if it even might turn out that Beato is Battler's mom. Lol.
Just saying. Would sure explain a lot, though It'd still be twisted.
MadelonVanBommel 2 years ago 4
What was the Maria's test? Why did she roast Kinzo? Man, somebody, explain it all to me!
cheetahofpolarlights 2 years ago
That's the third time old Kinzo has gone up in flames, if we look at the 'magical explaination' as simply the irrelivant explaination to be discarded, that just leaves us with Kinzo being repeatedly barbaqued. Burning a dead body is a good way to hide how long it has been dead for, so if he was to have died in the last few weeks, the non-magical explaination could be that he was thrown on the fire by...let's say Krauss, to hide that he's already been dead for some time, as suspected.
s2k997 2 years ago
Ok, that's nice. But what happened to Maria after all?
cheetahofpolarlights 2 years ago
Nothing to go on Maria's fate. As far as my theory went, following the murders of the siblings rivals to Krauss and Kyrie claiming the jackpot; they aimed to split up the remaining 'sheep' and deal with them as need be. Maria could have been carted off, useful as somebody that can be easily manipulated (she seemed to respond with the person on the phone, who identified themself as Beatrice as if she knew them) or she could have simply been picked up and snapped like a twig once no longer useful.
s2k997 2 years ago
Hooh... So, that means there murderer issomeone from family, right?
cheetahofpolarlights 2 years ago
That's the alternative to a magical explaination, that somebody, or a group of people, plot to murder many of the others for some reason, then carry it out, with Beatrice portraying their inginuity as her magic. Or if you believe in Virgilia's quantum answer, the answer is both yes and no until you solidly prove one case or the other, and the answer shapes reality.
s2k997 2 years ago
hm... I wsh I was their for sometime. Just in order to try to findout the truth.
cheetahofpolarlights 2 years ago
Comment removed
KuribohTwin 2 years ago
While everyone is discussing about sins here, there is also one important part in this episode that has to be taken into consideration. Why did Kyrie, who is such a strong non-believer of magic, try to convince Battler to believe in magic? Point of the game is to prove that the murders are not caused by magic, so what did Kyrie see kill the previous 4 that make her say that to Battler?
Solitaired 2 years ago
Mm< maybe She is the one who can be blamed? Then, it means Kyrie is the murderer, but se is the figure who had to be innocent as it was said by Battler. Maybe, that was not she, who told it all? And what was the sin? And, God damn it, who's son is Battler, can his mother be the woman tat is hunting after Ange?
cheetahofpolarlights 2 years ago
The answer to me, is a conspiracy. We're supposed to believe by pure chance that individually Gohda+Kumasawa, Jessica, Kyrie, Krauss all decided to reach out to Battler for some reason; to warn him of magic? Either they suddently converted thier philosophies, or its a conspiracy to manipulate him.
I think the magical characters are metaphors, like Eva-Beatrice was only Eva's killing spree. Virgilia is Kumasawa, Kyrie = Gaap, Jessica = Beatrice, Gohda = Kinzo. No confirmation of deaths yet.
s2k997 2 years ago
The 'murderers' may be something like: Krauss, Kumasawa, Kyrie, Gohda, and possibly Shannon and others, aiming to kill Kinzo's children because they had called thier bluff on if he was still alive or not. They then sought to muddle the matter up through blaming 'magic', keeping Battler and the others investigating the main mansion. The group was then split up, so Gohda+Kumasawa could rejoin, kill George, and get Jessica away to perform as Beatrice for Maria and Battler. Less deaths than shown.
s2k997 2 years ago
@Solitaired: I have to say that the point the phone calls make was to break Battler down that way he will end up believing in magic. As you said Kyrie is a strong person who doesn't believe in nonsense but if she were to believe then Battler will most likely believe. But to me these phone calls seem fake...
MrBoynton27 2 years ago
Yep, now I am not sure in this call. But I still don't think that Jessica is connected with murders. There is something strange with the call. But the most importantquestion for me is about maria's test.
cheetahofpolarlights 2 years ago
Same here... I would like to make my point farther but I would ruin the next 2 episodes for anime only viewers... :(
MrBoynton27 2 years ago
Mm, the dame with me... But may I try at leats? I still do not understand Virgilia's and Ronove's roles. Who are they? Jessica faught with him so if she is inocent thatmeans that Jessica ught an unknown man. Yep?
cheetahofpolarlights 2 years ago
The fight may not have happened at all. If Battler didn't witness it, it isn't certain to have happened. And if Jessica was playing Beatrice's role later, its likely she is alive and on thier side, as Battler never even checked to see if she was dead. Ronove said himself he was a representation of Genji the head butler, and the Virgilia = Kumasawa was shown in the third game. Those answers can be taken as agiven, no better alternative reasons come to mind.
s2k997 2 years ago
For a while before this, I've thought what the "Sin" could be. I think Battler may have commited a sin without knowing it was a sin...
I made a thoery after thinking about it for a while. What if Battler broke somone's heart?(possibly the murderers heart) The way Beato portrays love, pretty much as being sacred, to break a person's heart, especially a woman's heart, is the greatest sin a man can commit.
This could also be the reason for the murders. The murderer might be a Tsundere.
:/
Deitiy666 2 years ago 7
Who is tsundere?
cheetahofpolarlights 2 years ago
Ushiromiya Battler commited the sin, but if our Battler isn't Ushiromiya Battler, then he wouldn't remember the sin, right? I think that's the reason why Beatrice suddenly got upset and erased him through proving that Asumu is not his birth mother. ....at the same time, he's not related to Kinzo through his mother, so a proper test would be making him repeat his father's parternal qualifications in red instead.
Beatrice cheated, I think. ;)
SonjaArashi 2 years ago 2
I'm sorry but are you going by the anime or the game b/c the game goes deeper into what you're
saying. I can kind of get where you're going at but I don't know your reference.
MrBoynton27 2 years ago
Going off the red truth. In the long run, it seems like the theme for Umineko is love, like forgiveness was for Higurashi. I'm starting to look at Shannon and the other servant.(Ruron was his/her name?)
Beato looked heartbroken cause Battler can't remember... I think that's the murderer as Beato.
Think about it, why would Battler's test be about somone he loved the most, and when he said he didn't like anyone like that, Human Beato looked hurt.
Deitiy666 2 years ago
To me it's hard to tell if she is human or not. I mean that she was human at one point however now she is suppose to be dead... my point being is their a real Beato or is Piece-Battler having a conversation with the murderer "Beatrice"?
MrBoynton27 2 years ago
Where is Furudo?! Dammit!
cheetahofpolarlights 2 years ago
You are way ahead of the game my friend. She won't make her appearance until the next season...
MrBoynton27 2 years ago
Thank you for "friend" - sounds so warm. But I wish she came a bit earlier)) Maybe the the woman we see is a bit like Rica Fururde who had two minds in one body?
cheetahofpolarlights 2 years ago
Hey no problem :D. About Erika, from what I looked up she is suppose to be an arrogant 2nd rate Detective. We just have to wait and see when the translation comes out.
MrBoynton27 2 years ago
Ok but it is so hard to wait... Hm, btw, did you play Umineko or Higurashi in English?
cheetahofpolarlights 2 years ago
Umineko in English b/c I'm waiting until for the first 4 chapters to be translated before I play it.
MrBoynton27 2 years ago
Suc strange images in this game, don't you think? No offence, but I like Higurashi games more=) Unf. there are no of them in engish on PC T_T
cheetahofpolarlights 2 years ago 4
That...that was so touching. I shed a tear.
littlevicious667 2 years ago 2
I hope there will be a Battler version of the ED on the final episode. or at least somewhere in Chiru. :D
Belleneko 2 years ago 3
Does anyone know if there will be a 2nd season?
RumbleFighterSheep 2 years ago
Of course! There's still two moar episodes in this one and then there will be an Umineko No Naku Koro Ni Chiru once the EPs 6-8 of the SN are released. EP5 is out, but it will not be made into anime until it can be fit into a season with the other upcoming arcs.
Superduck779 2 years ago 2
hmm the sin could be about Ange and the sentence Battler cant say and maybe he believed in magic before and just forgot about it
KIRA94000 2 years ago
Beato didnt say "Six years ago, you and I still hadn't met"
"Because of your sin, people have died." In red.
c:
Darkever84 2 years ago
Yeah like in the VN, I wonder why they animated that scene like that...it was important that it was said in red.
GloomySakata 2 years ago
Kinzo's death in the anime = I'MA FIRIN MY LASER! BAAAAH!
TasogareAnime 2 years ago 9
heh, I noticed that too. :D
alphamone 2 years ago
hm...could battler's sin be not believing in magic?
this is just a guess , so i dont expect it to be right
vaan123456789 2 years ago
SOMEONE SPOIL ME.
Pm me or in comments.
My question;
What is the sin Battler commited? Also how does it connect to the murders?
Darkever84 2 years ago
plz tell me that too
Weskerama 2 years ago
me too, I wanna know :(
minititan21 2 years ago
Short answer, nobody knows for sure besides Ryu07 right now.
Long answer, why the hell would an important plot point LINKED TO THE GODDAMN MAIN CHARACTER be revealed in the very same arc it's introduced in?!
KawaiiDesuNekoBCSK 2 years ago 5
We don't know that yet...no one does
GloomySakata 2 years ago
This is something everyone wants to know but if you wait after Dec. 30 you might find the answer.
MrBoynton27 2 years ago
you really need to be more specific and say you're talking about EP6: Dawn of the Golden Witch.
KawaiiDesuNekoBCSK 2 years ago
Yeah I know but I like to hide a lot of information when it's needed :D
MrBoynton27 2 years ago
good plan
KawaiiDesuNekoBCSK 2 years ago
Eh... What happened to the binging noises that Virgilia hated? I guess they cannot add everything...
yellowfireyoshi 2 years ago
so does that mean that lady erika furudo will be in the second season?
fledglingphoenix2007 2 years ago
Yes
KuribohTwin 2 years ago
So...sad...poor Beato...I'm really eager to know what Battler's "sin" was though. I'm betting that it has to do with a possible imaginary friend!Beato (summoned by Maria) and him denying witches and the occult. Might be why she seems to really want him to accept her existance as a witch.
BlueMoonNya 2 years ago 3
Ahh...I want to slap Beato's face again.
Just like when I was reading this part in the VN.
Nurgle777 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
k every episode gets more and more confusing...when will this fking end and make sence im getting so tired of it
marcrawr 2 years ago
Two more episodes left before the final showdown...
Ebb1993willneverdie 2 years ago 2
Is this the last episode?!?!?!
AzumangaGirl101 2 years ago
no there are 26 eps total so 2 more left
KittycatCM 2 years ago
Damn Pony theory. I couldn't keep it out of my head.
sapphireunmei 2 years ago 4
Taking a guess here but I think BattIer is a descendant of Beatrice when she was alive. I'm completely wrong on this, don't listen to me. lol
Trodahawk 2 years ago
The woman named beatrice died 20 years ago. Battler is 18. Not likelly.
Mavellee 2 years ago 3
Maybe he met her as Maria did...met six years ago. =)
cheetahofpolarlights 2 years ago
Beato...:(
I think the sin DOES have something to do with her, she said herself she was sad.
Ameflame 2 years ago 2
Thanks for uploading another amazing episode!
I can't figure her out!! Is Beatrice messing around again? Is this some act? I mean, she's fricken insane!!
KEEP FIGHTING BATTLER! Don't give up!
And I want him to find out about Ange!!!
Jubileegirly 2 years ago 4
Nope. It's not an act. In the Visual Novel, everything about the sin and Asumu is said in red.
There's some serious issues going on with Battler that are connected to the Rokkenjima Murders.
ClessMajinken15 2 years ago
I'm only 1:07 seconds in but I think - is Beatric MESSING with him again? She's so good at that!
Jubileegirly 2 years ago
It's funny how Bernkastel, Lambdadelta and Ange doesn't even flinch when he can't tell them that -he- is the son of Ushiromiya Asumu. I mean sure, Bernkastel probably wouldn't, but I thought atleast Ange would be surprised? Oh well, this was one kickass episode!
xXGrumXx 2 years ago 4