At best this story is fishy - at worst it is fradulent. The mormons have a huge missionary-thing and I'm sure they would want "the christians", or any other group, to join them. The only reason the sheriff''s dept would get involved is if you folks were being disruptive in some way. Bottom line, I think you're lying.
typical. blow nothing into something, and then carefully select only the damning parts of it to share with others about the Mormons, the whole time emphasizing how innocently Christian you were and how unchristian the mormons were, despite having a perfect knowledge of your fraud.
um, I was there that year, I'm a Mormon. I saw that happening I was told that the toilet was backed up, or something. but there was another restroom 100 feet away. I went there.
Just to clear things up for everyone these were Public Restrooms. Mormon leaders did authorize the police to stop the Christians from using the restrooms and they asked individuals before using the restroom if they were Mormon. The Christians were not accosting people they were just sharing their faith in a public area. Mormons do this as well. BTW if any Mormon wants to preach out in front of our church please do so and you can use the restroom and we will give you cookies!
@heartforthelost If they didn't allow Christians to use the restroom, they wouldn't allow Mormons in there either.
I think it was, they were not allowing anyone who wasn't there to actually enjoy the play.
And "public" means owned by the public, and I have a feeling these were actualy owned by the church. And I know that this group, from other videos here, were causing problems, AND had planned to do this bathroom thing.
@heartforthelost You got all wrong. By the way I'm Christian Atheist.
The only reason why you Christian could not use the restroom because you don't share the belief-system that Mormons have. Book of Mormon --> Stay away from those who do not share your religious views. Alma verse 5:57.
No Mormon would go to your Church because its founded by the devil. Nephi sees the "great and abominable church" and its founder, the devil. Nephi verse 13:6.
It wasn't a "display of unkindness shown by the LDs leaders," it was a display of "unkindness" by security guards (who may or may not be LDS) they must have had their reasons for not letting the protestors over the line.
If these preachers are trying to link this up with the kissing cousins event at Temple Square then think again. Do you really think the gays/lesbians will move in for your defense? I don't think so.
LOVING YOUR NEIGHBORS?...BTW, What are you doing in the area at the first place? You are there to mock & verbally abuse your neighbors attending the event, aren't you?
The restrooms were not public, they were owned by the CofJCofLDS. As such, the church can deny anyone the use of them that they want.
It's a little bit hypocritical, IMHO, to go to this pageant, stand around yelling about how "This Mormon church is not Christian, you are wrong, you are evil, you are satanic" or whatever, and then "Say, can I use your bathroom?"
Kind of like the KKK protesting outside a synagogue, You're scum, oh, can we use your bathroom?
On the contrary! The restrooms had no PRIVATE signs on them. It's very obvious that they weren't doing anything but trying to use the restroom. Not "ACCOST" people. If they were doing that, they'd do it outside the restroom where everyone was at. Well, to say that Mormons aren't Christians is true. A real church wouldn't stop anyone from using it's restrooms no matter what they believed. And to compare Christians to the KKK is sheer ignorance. And they never said Mormons were scum.
If a restroom is on privately owned property, the owner of said property can allow and disallow anyone they want to use their restrooms.
I don't compare CHRISTIANS with the KKK. But, ANYONE standing outside my church, mocking us, telling us we're going to hell, etc., and then has the GALL to DEMAND we let them use our restrooms, that's just wrong. The restrooms were NOT public restrooms, the church owns them and has every right to keep out certain elements of society.
For these people to make it sound like they were not allowed to use the restrooms because they are CHRISTIAN is just so stupid and only stupid people would believe this.
Anti-Mormons tell us to stop with the persecution complex, yet they go crying to the public that the poor persecuted CHRISTIANS are being denied the use of supposedly PUBLIC restrooms by the mean, evil, Satanic Mormons, just because they are CHRISTIAN. It's because they are ANTI-MORMON.
I know for a fact that there's more to this story than what this video shows! Im from manti, Im not mormon and I was allowed to use this restroom!! I know Dave Jorgensen, and I know the real reason he and his group were asked to leave! Dave and his group kept interfering with me and other people who were trying to go to the bath room. The cops asked Dave to leave several times nicely, and he wouldnt . This film only shows when the cops get mad!!
dude, get over it. they AREN'T public. ha. its trespassing. and they could of flipping arrested you "christians". do you really think its christain to go ruin someone else's religious pageant, and to be swearing and complaining, and being just flat out rude! is that what jesus would of done?? i think not.
They just asked to use the rest room. What's wrong with that. They weren't doing anything wrong. They had to use the rest room. Even if they weren't christian, why wouldn't they be allowed to use the restroom?
The video doesn't show a protest. It shows people that need to use the rest room. Even if they weren't Christians, people should be able to use a rest room. It didn't say "PRIVATE REST ROOM". It was a public restroom.
It had nothing to do with whether they were Christian or not. They were there to cause problems, and the security was probably worried that these people were going to try to accost people using the restroom who were trying to enjoy the pageant.
And they were not public restrooms. They were there for the comfort of those who came to ENJOY the pageant.
If you want to represent Christ, then ACT like Christ.
the Spirit and the bride say come quickly Lord Jesus....comfort yourselves with the words of scripture as wickedness increases world wide.watch and pray.accept Jesus as your God and saviour and show evidence of being born again,by having a change of mind and heart,whereby the heart was the worst thing to God and people,but now the best.
How well do you know the LDS doctrine? Because, unless you have a PERFECT knowledge of the church's doctrines, you are completely unqualified to make a judgement call of any kind. You can certainly disagree. The LDS church is in the unique position of declaring that it has the fulness of the Everlasting Gospel. Having the Fullness implies that it is complete, it doesn't mean everyone else is wrong. Following Christ isn't about overpowering people, it's about winning them ove, loving them over.
Perfect knowledge? if Gordon Hinkley did not have a perfect knowledge why would it be required of me? He was asked if God was once a man, which is a basic principle of the LDS, and he said he did not know, So either he was not truthful or he did not have a perfect knowledge
Do you think that Gordon Hinkley didn't trust in God? He does trust in God and doesn't question Him. Work out your own salvation and stop pointing your finger and mocking.
Is this supposed to go down as some kind of atrocity or something? Mormons defending their turf...how dare they! Outrageous! And all while this nice group well mannered "Christians"(protesters) were innocently going about their bigotry. Wait a sec...Mormons are Christians...but...that...means...(gulp)
Simple answers for your first two questions: YOU are not Paul and YOU are not Christ and THIS is not the 1st Century AD.
Someone taking the trouble to post this CRIME OF HUMANITY on Youtube shows their true motive and it wasn't saintly. Bigots are people who can't tolerate a different race, religion, or voice, etc... Check the dictionary.
If the missionaries were teaching intolerance toward others I'd agree with you but they aren't.
Who does the Bible say were "God's people" before Jesus ministry? The Israelites/Jews.
How have Christians treated Jews historically? Not like God's people.
We believe that the Bible is the Word of God but there a many "plain and precious truths" that were lost over time. We think of it as a companion to the BOM. Much is clearified by reading the BOM, it supports the Bible. We teach that the authority to do sacred ordinances was over time. It had to be restored and it was.
Bigotry is a learned behavior and usually has more to do with ignorance. God tolerates every kind of behavior.
The intent in posting it is clear...it's a smear tactic. Did someone smear you?
11th article of faith: We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
Yes God tolerates a great deal, even disparaging remarks that people make about the LDS Church. You and yours are allowed to to that...it's not right but thats free agency.
He tolerates a great deal of falseness. On occassion he intervenes as the scriptures point out...but, he does tolerate the untolerable.
The Articles of Faith are a plain and simple declaration of our beliefs...It's not supposed to sound like the Bible, why should it?
God is only tolerant to a point Then His wrath and judgment are shown If someone is in a false religion or heeding the words of a false prophet over Gods when His tolerance ends - then it is wrath
as Christians we are not to tolerate false teachings but to show the truth - to share the true gospel If they do not listen we are to have nothing to do with them, not even eat with them
Did Christ display article 11 in Matthew 23 towards the Pharisees? or Paul to false teachers
It would seem that there are a lot of "false religions" out there. The LDS Church teaches that there are pieces of the truth scattered around the various religions. Some believe this, some believe that. Some don't know what they believe. You know.
Christians are supposed to be peacemakers, merciful,a light unto the world,meek.
Christ didn't display the llth article of faith in Matthew 23 because he was too busy pronouncing woes upon the scribes and Pharisees.
There are certainly pieces of truth in most religions But pieces of truth in a false religion or in a lie is not what give us eternal life
The simple truth is Christ is the only name in heaven by which we get eternal life If our truth does not include Him as the sole means of eternal life then any other truth we may have is pointless
Define meek?
He was pronouncing woes upon them because He had no tolerance for their religious practices
Christ is the only name in heaven by which we get eternal life. So how do you go about bringing people to Christ? You share his Gospel with them. The Holy Ghost will bare witness to the truth.
The Pharisees prided themselves on their strict observance of the law...they had lost the Spirit of the law. In other words they were zealots. They were also a major obstacle to the reception of Christ and the Gospel by the Jewish people.
Meek is different today, it synonymous with weakness or submissiveness, being docile then meant to be gentle or humble Not humble as in submissive but humble as in not overly prideful you could be most strong but humble
Someone can be meek and still be forceful
I share the supportable gospel and truth The Holy Spirit supports truth but people are today blinded to the truth by satan and satan can transform as an angel of light making people believe they have truth
If we stray from Gods Word (Bible) we are more easily blinded to the true gospel
Pharisees thought they were righteous through following of the law and were hypocrites Did Christ tolerate them and their obstacle to Him? NO Then why should I or anyone else be tolerant of a partial truth or deceit? Why should a Christian tolerate a different gospel claimed to be the same? Are we to be tolerant of the Pharisees of today? Or should we show them the truth of the real gospel?
I think I asked you before, but are you a native of the area? Manti
The reason I ask is because Manti is a small town. I'm familiar with it as I had relatives that lived in Ephraim and we used to visit them when I was a kid.
If you are a native then you probably are surrounded by LDS. My heart goes out to you. It would be tuff to say the least. I still think this was wrong but I'm not without understanding. Try a carrot next time. :) Seek for a better understanding.
It sounds like there might be a need for a town hall meeting. Non Mormons feel their buttons were pushed and Mormons sometimes have a hard time dealing with criticism. It happens.Small towns can be surprisingly hostile places any part of America. In the Bible Belt Mormons can be subjectedto some pretty crappy treatment by non-mormons. It's poor understanding of each other most of the time. I respect a persons devotion to God but I've traveled around alot. Lol, I'm surrounded by non-Christians.
I do respect a persons devotion to whoever or however they choose to worship, even if they choose not to worship. That's the great thing about living in a free society. Did you hear about the guy in Afghanistan that became a Christian and the local leaders wanted to execute him? It's a huge blessing to be born in this country and to be able to worship according to ones conscience.
I believe we all worship God the way we understand God. I don't make enemies of people because of their belief.
Paul was a Pharisee persecuted Christians. He took part in the martyrdom of Stephen. He started for Damascus to further the persecution and on the road saw a vision of the Savior, which changed the whole current of his life.
God permits people to choose. One of the reasons we're here is to learn. This is another LDS teaching. Many people who were formerly lost have made miraculous changes in their lives. We believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ makes bad men good and good men better.
We are talking about after Paul was a Christian Did Christ respect the devotion of the pharisees for whatever reason? Did Paul respect false teachers and false prophets devotion The persecution of Christians is proof positive he did not respect the devotion and his teachings after his conversion shows he had no tolerance for false teachings with/without a respect for devotion
The gospel of Christ presents the good news of eternal life by grace, the result is bad men being good
Before Paul had his vision he believed he was doing what was right. The Lord is capable of seeing into our hearts. We are not capable of that. We don't have the right to judge anyone. In fact, that is basic to Christianity.
Matt. 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
Read further in Matt 7 and Luke 6 don't just quote it read it in context
They are not a prohibition against judging peoples doctrine or their actions, it is telling us not to judge wrongly I am judging LDS doctrine against the Bible
Does it say I cannot judge or does it tell me to judge rightly?
This is not judging to hell this is correcting someone's false doctrine, something we are all to do
Don't have a superficial understanding of the Bible, know it in context
Understanding the differences in the LDS teachings between who goes to the LDS three levels of heaven, tell me what most likely happens to me if I do not accept Mormonism.
Do I go to outerdarkness or one of the three levels?
Now tell me what mostly likely happens to you according to Christianity if the LDS is false?
I asked you mainly what the LDS taught for clarification on your beliefs
Yes I would like to discuss with you the difference between the LDS and Christianity and take the questions and their answers to beyond a superficial thought or application
There is no trap, perhaps it seems that way and I can understand that But there is no trap
Typically LDS teachings are superficially Christian sounding but in depth they are far different
chords -- First, we need to clarify when you speak you are not speaking on behalf of "Christianity." You can tell me what the SBC believe regarding Christian doctrines, but that is the limit. Mormons are just as "Christian" as the SBC.
I don't believe you. If you merely wanted clarification, then you would ask for clarification. None of your questions reveal a desire to clarify a point of doctrine.
As I have mentioned several times I don't care about the SBC view, I am a member of the Body of Christ as a believer in Him and membership in an organization means little to nothing.
Nope I do not speak on behalf of Christianity but I can support everything I say with the word of god from the Bible and without another gospel or the claims of a prophet of a church
chords - So are you admitting that the SBC is not true? If so, why are you affiliated with it?
I can support everything I say with the word of god from the Bible. So where does that leave us? "For the teachers of religion of the different sects [understand] the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible."
i do not rely on the SBC for my truth the doctrine of the SBC is biblical the Holy Spirit is the authority
SBC is no more "true" than any other organization that trusts God to not have allowed His Word to fail and teaches the Bible as the only written word of God
The SBC is simply an organization over the church organization I attend If I left the SBC tomorrow it would not matter one tiny bit as far as my salvation is concerned
chords - Do you believe that the SBC was organized by Jesus Christ? Do you believe that Christ leads your Church through your leaders? (that is what I mean by true)
If you can't rely upon the teachings of your own Church, how can you sit there an attack my Church and its teachings? (Don't you think that is a little hypocritical?)
Our individual levels of reliance in our churches is different I trust the pastor to be lead by the Holy Spirit and I too am indwelled by the Holy Spirit, all believers are I do not trust anyone but God with my eternal life and I do have eternal life without the SBC or the church building I attend
Why - because my eternal life is ONLY in Christ, my faith is in Christ not a church Can you have eternal life without the LDS? If you cannot then your trust is in them before God
God said His Word would never pass away and He said believe on Him and I can know I have eternal life, I trust His claim and I do not put trust that level of trust in any church organization because men are capricious and men lie for their own power and gain.
The SBC as I have said several times has no part at all in my eternal life it is a place to fellowship, listen to Gods Word, be baptized with water, and grow in faith plus have pot luck dinners (kidding)
I believe the Lord leads and called my pastor to be a preacher and I believe He called each of the people there to be there. I believe the SBC was a group of men called by God to preach the gospel, they started the SBC as a place to organize believers and protect the truth of the gospel in their doctrine. They error like anyone else but that is why I do not trust men or a church for my eternal life
I have heard that quote before The problem is the different sects (baptist, methodist, etc...) all teach the same foundational truth of Christianity The Bible as the sole source of the God breathed Word, salvation by grace, the crucifixion and resurrection, the righteousness through Christ alone and a few others
The main differences have no affect on eternal life and are minor They are basically the same with preferences preaching styles, legalistic views, prophecy, gifts etc
They are all under one organization, they are each a part of the body of believers which is the One True Church Christ established
The organizations of men (denom's) are just a means of organizing people, building meeting places, studying, fellowship and growing in faith etc. The center and focus of this one church is Christs' eternal life and His work
Even in their minor differences they all still belong to one church, of which Christ is the head and Bible the written Word
chords -- Really? Do you know what an organization is? I sincerely hope you are not so naive to believe that? I don't know what fantasy world you live in, but back here on planet earth unfortunately there is no such organization that includes all Christian denominations.
Not an organization on planet earth. The group of people that are all believers in Christ that belong to Him, is nondenominational and is the Body of Christ
This is the group folks who are in the book of life and know they have eternity with God.
It transcends all the denominational claims of men and is solely headed by God
Organization was a poor choice of words to describe it especially in the vein of discussing organizations of men.
I know you are not the one that makes that judgment
I wanted to know what the LDS taught in those regards
Doesn't the LDS teach that most everyone has salvation, except the sons of perdition and a very small handful of people?
That is my point, if the LDS teaches pretty much all people are saved to one of the three levels of heaven, I will be in a heaven when I die Does that makes sense?
Even if I am not a Mormon I will not be in hell, according to the LDS, I will be saved
chords - If you want to know what LDS teach. Then ask me what we believe. Don't ask a leading question intended to illicit a particular response.
No we do NOT teach everyone has salvation. That does not make sense. What is the point of life, if we all automatically have salvation? There would be no motivation to believe in or follow Jesus Christ. There would be no motivation to do good.
Mormon Doctrine can be a good reference if you can understand it. However, based upon your prior comments, I would suggest that you read the BofM before you consult that book.
Read D&C 76 and 1 Cor 15 for more on the telestial kingdom.
I will let you look up what terrestial and telestial (terra and tele) mean. You have a tendency not to listen to my answers, so I will let you look it up for yourself. (See, Bible Dictionary)
But I am most familiar with 1 Cor 15 and there is no support for three levels of heaven
nor is there a telestial kingdom mentioned
I see the word terrestrial when discussing the two different bodies - one being natural (terrestrial - of the earth) which came first and one being spiritual (celestial) which is after the resurrection
The terrestrial (on earth) body in corruption then the resurrection to an incorruptible body (to heaven)
chords -- I am not going to get in an argument over semantics and interpretation. So if you don't agree with my interpretation, then you are going to have to show me why your interpretation is any better.
And another example - I asked is the LDS God an exalted man - you after two weeks said I do not know the history of God. He is not a man, he is God" and "..that as man is, God once was, and as God is, man may become"
The LDS teaches that god is an exalted man yet you avoided saying that and answered a different question You are not answering my questions you are making your own and answering them
That is avoiding not only the question but the truth of the answer
JW, 7th Day Adv and Assembly of God outgrew the LDS - Is that good fruit too?
In 2004 the LDS global missionary force dropped from near 62,000 to about 51,000
Nearly 80% of LDS convert baptisms are outside the US and it is estimated that 50% of US LDS converts and 75% of foreign converts stop attending after a year
I went to the LDS site as you suggested It did not give the numbers I asked you about
I asked how many converts stay after the first year and of the 13M members how many were active The LDS does not give that info
You said you researched it, where did you get your info?
Here is what I found out
Of the 13M claimed members only about 4M are active LDS converts actually declined from 1996 (321,385) to 2004 (241,239) In the 90s it dropped from 5 to 3 percent growth
Attacking the messenger does not discredit the message nor answer the questions I don't care about the numbers, it is you that claimed the 13M members and 50k missionaries was a result of the LDS interpretation, indicating that those numbers supported the LDS interpretation as true You said you researched and gave me the LDS site If my source is not correct give me a credible source of people actually active in the LDS and the converts active after a year
chords -- I agree 'ATTACKING THE MESSENGER DOES NOT DISCREDIT THE MESSAGE.' Remember your own words the next time you want to say something negative about Joseph Smith.
If that many came to the LDS because of such a powerful interpretation that is more valid than others, they should mostly all still be there
I asked you if you could give me ref to the numbers who leave and the growth rate compared to society, you gave me the LDS site which did not give that information
I found the info that shows of the 13M apparently about 2/3 did not like the interpretation after all, you used the numbers not me, the 13M active is unsupportable
chords - Stop and use a little common sense please. Forget your bias, forget your disagreements. If you really understood LDS doctrines and history, you would be Mormon.
I am not trying to hide anything. I am not trying to be careful. I am merely pointing out what is wrong with your so called "questions." I answer them and you don't like the answers, so now I am calling you out. Deal with it!
I know many people who understand the LDS and left because they did One man was LDS for 54 years another 28 some in between, they know the LDS And they left because God allowed them to see the bondage and deceit in the LDS
If you were not trying to hide anything you could have and would have answered the questions without avoiding
Your truth is the LDS system and you are blinded to Gods truth because of your dedication to the LDS, you cannot see its lies
My questions were simple, the problem is found in the answer within LDS doctrine
The truthful answers caused great angst since you could not give them honestly, so you avoid them
It is not just you, MOST Mormons will not answer questions about the LDS religion in a straightforward manner
Sadly until you address the real answer you will not find the truth in Gods Word and will be lost in the LDS system, in which there is no eternal life
chords - "DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THE WORDS COMING OUT OF MY MOUTH?"
No one is avoiding your questions! You are asking ridiculous "questions," which are more statements than questions. I give you answers, and you don't like them so you say I am being evasive. Give me a break. I am tired of your dumb little games.
I asked if you died now would you have eternal life You did not answer that question you answered a completely different question that no one asked That is avoiding
I did not ask if you died now would you have kept the faith or lived a good life, I asked if you died now would you have eternal life with God?
You avoiding an answer by changing the quesion most LDS do that
Also no answer on - is the LDS god an exalted man or what if you are wrong and I am right..
chords - How have I changed or avoided the question? Are you really so simple minded to believe that you and I interpret the same words similarly. I do not know what you are thinking or what point you are trying to make, but please do not make such ignorant statements.
I answered your questions, you just did not like my answers!
My intent is to know if the LDS teaching is that and if you believe if you die today you will be accepted into eternal life with God
I am not interested in if you lived a good life or if you kept the faith. There will be many atheist who lived a good life and many muslims who kept their faith
Why can you not just give a yes or no answer?
My answer and most Christians would be YES if I died today I would have eternal life with God
If you cannot say yes then you don't know, so the answer would be NO, I do not know
In the LDS you cannot know, in Christianity you can know
1 John 5:13 says we can know we have eternal life. "13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God"
Eternal life is a gift given to us through the grace of Gods mercy
Why did you ask me a question, if you were just trying to trick me and tell me what I believed even if I told you to the contrary? I am tired of your games.
So you don't think saying to someone "Who do you think you are? God?" is condescending? Though it is kind of ironic that the LDS teaches men can be a god.
or "If you aren't getting the response you are looking for, perhaps you were not clear in your question. I can't read your mind." It was not that difficult of a question.
Either you know or you don't know.
Is there more than one definition of eternal life?
There may be more than one religion all with a god of its own but the number of religions do not determine the actual truth
A muslim can believe he has the truth and a Christian can believe he has the truth, but the simple fact is there is only one truth not two different ones
But we are talking about Christianity and the differences between Gods proven truth and the LDS claims of truth, they are very different. Thus one is not true
I have shown you three : God is NOT an exalted man; Christ is not the spirit brother of satan and if I am wrong about the LDS error then I will still spend eternity in an LDS heaven, no matter what And if you are wrong you will not be in a heaven anywhere Those are truths
AS far as who has it that would be Christ as the head of the body of believers and the Holy Spirit who is to bring Glory to Christ It is not the LDS with a wholly different gospel
chords - I am getting tired of your ridiculous questions. They are all leading questions that assume a particular answer in the question. They are all biased and not intended to really discover what I believe. They are asked in an attempt to try to make a point. If I tell you what you want to hear, then you have a prepared response to refute my beliefs. If I tell you something different, then you claim I am evasive.
I am tired of your little games. Send me a message when you really care.
Because you are not addressing the question, you are either answering what you think I should of asked, or giving a more palatable Christian sounding answer to avoid true LDS doctrine, or you are avoiding the question outright or all of the above
I am not trying to trick you into anything I am simply asking you what the LDS teaches or you believe.
I asked if you died did you have eternal life you avoided with a different answer to a question I did not ask - you are avoiding
chords -- Well maybe you should be more clear when you ask a question. If you aren't getting the response you are looking for, perhaps you were not clear in your question. I can't read your mind.
I am not avoiding anything. (You are the one who refuses to discuss your own faith and instead focus on criticizing my faith.)
So you ask an intentionally ambiguous question The difference is I will not avoid the question or answer a different question, you do
just to clarify are you asking me if my God is God?
If so then I would say why YES of course He is God.
He is the God without beginning, He was not a man at any time and has always been God, He is God "from everlasting to everlasting" no beginning and no end. He is not our literal father but our father by the Spirit.
even if you are a faithful Mormon if you do not complete ALL the works necessary you will be in the terrestial heaven with me
if you are wrong then you will not be in any heaven
That is why you actually looking at the truth of Gods Word outside the LDS is so important, the LDS god is an exalted man not God
the rich man in Luke 16 did not get a second chance he was doomed to eternal torment and there is no mention of a level of heaven or repentance or acceptance after death
I find it most concerning that you have to lead so many responses with a personal attack
Are you going to answer my question about what if I am wrong and you are right or what if I am right and you are wrong? Or are you going to avoid or "interpret? that differently too?
According to LDS doctrine if I am wrong, what is the state of my soul?
According to Christian doctrine if you are wrong, what is the state of your soul?
"He that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another."
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."
what in the hell are you trying to prove all you did by putting this on here is made yourselfs look stupid. if you dont like what other people are doing and dont agree with the pagent then why do you go. you should have been arrestted and forced to use the bathroom there for disturbing the peace.
people all have a right to believe what they want but mormans dont go to other churches functions to protest that is just wrong. plus you can hear the cops tell you where there is a public bathroom
You can also hear the cops say that the restroom where we are is a public restroom. Listen for the radio transmission about time marker 1:11-1:15.
Why is the policeman calling it a public restroom if it is not a public restroom?
Were you there to know the whole story?
If you would of been you would know the restrooms were open FOR PUBLIC use and only when the Christians wore early 1800s clothes and dresses as Smiths 34 wives did the restroom become not public
That is the short version about 350 words, not 500. Realizing that the LDS and Christianity have different meanings of many of the same words. Which many times causes confusion when we talk
Now what do you believe?
Also I want you to notice that on the video above the police call the restrooms the "public restrooms" see about 1:11-1:14
chord- Did you know that the SBC was created in 1845 in a split with the American Baptist Convention over the question of whether slave owners could be missionaries. The SBC actively opposed civil rights through 1970s, and many congregations excluded Blacks from membership. In fact, the SBC apologized in 1995 for their blatantly rascist beginnings. Did you know that? (touche')
Good thing I am not racist and a good thing I do not rely on the SBC or ABC for my salvation
It is even better that the God I worship did not decide in 1978 that blacks were then worthy of a priesthood they had been worthy all along to be believers in Christ and priests to Him
Shall I post some of the abhorrent quotes against black people from LDS leadership? Do you really want to go there?
Why is it (according to LDS) people with dark skin have dark skin?
chords -- You are kidding right? You belong to a Church that has a long history of racism. And you want to compare the priesthood with membership in the Church? People of color have always been welcome in the LDS Church. People have dark skin b/c that is the way God created them. Why do some people have big noses?
That is not what the LDS teaches. The LDS has taught that "black skin is a curse of heaven"
"There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is born white. .."
what is the REASON for the black skin according to the LDS?
"after the flood we are told that the CURSE that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through HAM'S WIFE....because it was necessary that the devil should have a representative on earth as well as God"
chords -- Are you really going to sit there and try to tell me what my Church does or does not teach? Really? How would you like it if I started to do the same to you? (But, I don't think you want to know what the SBC taught regarding skin color.) Please ask, don't tell!
I told you the reason, if you don't like my answer then that is your problem. God created both light and dark skin and he loves everyone equally despite the color of their skin. (That is what the LDS Church teaches.)
chords -- Really? You (who does not know the history of his own Churhc) are trying to tell me that is not the history of my own church. Come on man! Give me a break!
I have answered your question at least twice now. People have dark skin because that is the way God created them. God loves all his children regardless of the color of their skin. (That is what the LDS Church teaches.)
chords -- You do NOT know what the LDS Church teaches. (You do not even know what your church teaches or your own church's history.)
You are so set on finding error in the LDS Church that you have created your own misconception of what the LDS Church is and what it teaches. The LDS Church in your mind, is not the LDS Church that I belong to. I belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, which is lead by Christ himself.
I was standing right there about 10 feet away. The gentleman who denied them access said he was an official of the LDS church and you (the women) are not allowed on this property.
He called a security guy who then called the sheriff deputies.
chords -- You still have been unable to explain what is so wrong with being denied use of a PRIVATE restroom. You still have failed to articulate how this was a religious issue (besides saying they were Mormon and we aren't). So...who is avoiding the issues?
is it okay to move in 4 mobile trailers designed to be restrooms and moved in specifically for use as public restroom, allow EVERYONE to use those restrooms designated as public use, have the sheriff even call for his support to the "public" restrooms (indicating that EVERY security officer and sheriff deputy KNEW he was referring to those restrooms as being for public use) then stop ONLY Christians from using the restroom?
Reminds me of blacks not allowed in public restaurants
chords -- Make up your mind. First they were public, then they were private, now they are public and private. First it was a sheriff that prevented your access, then it was an LDS authority, now it is a security officer and sheriff. Come on man. You're contradicting yourself. Make a decision and stick to it.
Also, it appears that they were allowing Christians and non-Christians the restroom.
You forget to mention that blacks were not allowed in YOUR church. (touche')
Why it is you must so vainly attempt to discredit people You avoid a real response to the question and conduct this ridiculous mocking that is not true
I have said all along they were PUBLIC restrooms on private property to which the PUBLIC was given access. And you also know but must attempt to spin the truth that I have said it was an LDS official who first made the call and he was backed up by the security and sheriff You are NOT being honest
The LDS church is led by a prophet who claims to be led by a christ. But that christ is wholly different than the Christ of the Bible.
The Christ of the Bible is eternally God, from the beginning is God and the creator and sustainer of all things,He is also the creator of satan
The christ of the LDS is simply one of millions of babies of god the exalted man from one of his multiple wives and the LDS christ is the spirit brother of satan.
chords -- That is not true. The Christ that we worship is the same Christ spoken of in the Bible. (Even if you do not agree, that is what we believe.) You falsely represent what the LDS believe.
Why do you not ask me what I believe, rather than telling me? I gave you the respect to ask you what you believed, why can't you do me the same?
chords -- You just falsely represented LDS beliefs in this last comment. You tried to distinguish between the LDS Christ and a "Biblical Christ," when you know and I know that Mormons read the Bible. That is a false representation. Should I go on?
chords -- What do you mean by "most correct"? I believe that the Book of Mormon was translated by the hand of God and therefore has less translation mistakes.
In response to your questions regarding the nature of God. We believe in God, the eternal father, in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. We believe that God and Jesus Christ are two seperate beings. That God created all things and Jesus is His Son. God created His Son and Satan and you.
chords- You merely "parrot" anti-Mormon attacks. Do you expect me to believe that you compared the current and first edition BofM and found 4000 mistakes? You already admitted that you have not read the BofM in full.
Further, there have been NO major changes to the BofM. The only changes made have been the result of typographical and grammatical errors.
Exactly! The BofM and Bible compliment each other.
Why do you try to spin LDS doctrine with this Satan brother thing?
If it were translated by the power of God and the letters would NOT disappear until it was translated exactly right and it is actually the MOST correct book on earth at the time of the initial printing, WHY would there need to be even minor changes?
Studies have been done that have actually counted the changes, almost 4,000
Spin what about satans brother thing?
Does the LDS teach the Christ and satan are spirit brothers? YES OR NO
chords -- Will you please provide a source for these "studies." The only "studies" I have seen are in anti-Mormon pamphlets.
We teach that we are all spirit brothers and sisters. It may be deducted from this belief that Christ and satan are brothers, which is exactly what you have done.
The Christian Christ did NOT create Satan. That is ridiculous. I have read the Bible several times and have never read that. What bible do you read?
"antimormon" pamphlets as you call them give references for the comments so you can easily check their validity The problem is they are labeled antimormon so you will not even look at the reference to see if the people giving the quotes are truly against YOU or just trying to show the truth
You dismiss anything they say because of one emotive word that is spread to keep you from the truth
Before I answer your comment of Christ creating satan
Still using emotive mocking to attempt to discredit.
So are you saying that if I go to a site of someone who is not a mormon and he quotes (an exact quote) several LDS prophets and says look at these quotes and compare those to these Biblical quotes, that those quotes are antimormon?
If it is the exact quote, why is it antimormon?
If it has the reference that can be verified, what is wrong with it?
Mormons dont answer with truth, they answer with what they have been told
chords -- It is anti-Mormon if it attacks the faith, doctrine, or history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
The problem is when you fail to verify the reference.
I answer with what I have learned for myself; not what I have been told. We do not have classes on how to answer anti-mormon attacks. Do you have classes on how to approach Mormons and what to say? (I will assume yes, having visited SBC churches before.)
At best this story is fishy - at worst it is fradulent. The mormons have a huge missionary-thing and I'm sure they would want "the christians", or any other group, to join them. The only reason the sheriff''s dept would get involved is if you folks were being disruptive in some way. Bottom line, I think you're lying.
whatupyoism 7 months ago
typical. blow nothing into something, and then carefully select only the damning parts of it to share with others about the Mormons, the whole time emphasizing how innocently Christian you were and how unchristian the mormons were, despite having a perfect knowledge of your fraud.
PCEggo 7 months ago
um, I was there that year, I'm a Mormon. I saw that happening I was told that the toilet was backed up, or something. but there was another restroom 100 feet away. I went there.
WilliBean123 9 months ago
grow up. this doesn't help anyone except make Christians look petty and immature.
carlasue88 2 years ago 2
if it is lds property, they can ask you to leave, anytime, fools!
blugularis 2 years ago 3
Just to clear things up for everyone these were Public Restrooms. Mormon leaders did authorize the police to stop the Christians from using the restrooms and they asked individuals before using the restroom if they were Mormon. The Christians were not accosting people they were just sharing their faith in a public area. Mormons do this as well. BTW if any Mormon wants to preach out in front of our church please do so and you can use the restroom and we will give you cookies!
heartforthelost 2 years ago
I do not believe that everyone was asked if they were Mormon or not, and that ALL "Christians" were forbidden to use the restroom.
It's the ones who rudely hoot and hollar during the play and take cameras into restrooms that are called into question.
lindalds 2 years ago
@heartforthelost If they didn't allow Christians to use the restroom, they wouldn't allow Mormons in there either.
I think it was, they were not allowing anyone who wasn't there to actually enjoy the play.
And "public" means owned by the public, and I have a feeling these were actualy owned by the church. And I know that this group, from other videos here, were causing problems, AND had planned to do this bathroom thing.
lindalds 1 year ago
@heartforthelost You got all wrong. By the way I'm Christian Atheist.
The only reason why you Christian could not use the restroom because you don't share the belief-system that Mormons have. Book of Mormon --> Stay away from those who do not share your religious views. Alma verse 5:57.
No Mormon would go to your Church because its founded by the devil. Nephi sees the "great and abominable church" and its founder, the devil. Nephi verse 13:6.
nctrls2 1 year ago
@heartforthelost Cont 2... The Catholic church was founded by the devil to lead souls to hell. Nephi verse 14:3
nctrls2 1 year ago
It wasn't a "display of unkindness shown by the LDs leaders," it was a display of "unkindness" by security guards (who may or may not be LDS) they must have had their reasons for not letting the protestors over the line.
yoginiha 2 years ago
If these preachers are trying to link this up with the kissing cousins event at Temple Square then think again. Do you really think the gays/lesbians will move in for your defense? I don't think so.
LOVING YOUR NEIGHBORS?...BTW, What are you doing in the area at the first place? You are there to mock & verbally abuse your neighbors attending the event, aren't you?
leSavaii 2 years ago 2
The restrooms were not public, they were owned by the CofJCofLDS. As such, the church can deny anyone the use of them that they want.
It's a little bit hypocritical, IMHO, to go to this pageant, stand around yelling about how "This Mormon church is not Christian, you are wrong, you are evil, you are satanic" or whatever, and then "Say, can I use your bathroom?"
Kind of like the KKK protesting outside a synagogue, You're scum, oh, can we use your bathroom?
lindalds 2 years ago 2
On the contrary! The restrooms had no PRIVATE signs on them. It's very obvious that they weren't doing anything but trying to use the restroom. Not "ACCOST" people. If they were doing that, they'd do it outside the restroom where everyone was at. Well, to say that Mormons aren't Christians is true. A real church wouldn't stop anyone from using it's restrooms no matter what they believed. And to compare Christians to the KKK is sheer ignorance. And they never said Mormons were scum.
KakkoiGuy1 2 years ago
If a restroom is on privately owned property, the owner of said property can allow and disallow anyone they want to use their restrooms.
I don't compare CHRISTIANS with the KKK. But, ANYONE standing outside my church, mocking us, telling us we're going to hell, etc., and then has the GALL to DEMAND we let them use our restrooms, that's just wrong. The restrooms were NOT public restrooms, the church owns them and has every right to keep out certain elements of society.
lindalds 2 years ago
For these people to make it sound like they were not allowed to use the restrooms because they are CHRISTIAN is just so stupid and only stupid people would believe this.
Anti-Mormons tell us to stop with the persecution complex, yet they go crying to the public that the poor persecuted CHRISTIANS are being denied the use of supposedly PUBLIC restrooms by the mean, evil, Satanic Mormons, just because they are CHRISTIAN. It's because they are ANTI-MORMON.
lindalds 2 years ago
I know for a fact that there's more to this story than what this video shows! Im from manti, Im not mormon and I was allowed to use this restroom!! I know Dave Jorgensen, and I know the real reason he and his group were asked to leave! Dave and his group kept interfering with me and other people who were trying to go to the bath room. The cops asked Dave to leave several times nicely, and he wouldnt . This film only shows when the cops get mad!!
pinetreeusa 2 years ago 5
@pinetreeusa you probably went to the other bathroom that wasn't backed up, 50 feet away.
WilliBean123 9 months ago
@pinetreeusa Thanks for that.
majinish 8 months ago
Comment removed
pinetreeusa 2 years ago
dude, get over it. they AREN'T public. ha. its trespassing. and they could of flipping arrested you "christians". do you really think its christain to go ruin someone else's religious pageant, and to be swearing and complaining, and being just flat out rude! is that what jesus would of done?? i think not.
BrittanLacey71 2 years ago
They just asked to use the rest room. What's wrong with that. They weren't doing anything wrong. They had to use the rest room. Even if they weren't christian, why wouldn't they be allowed to use the restroom?
KakkoiGuy1 2 years ago
they weren't doing anything wrong?? you were freaking protesting against their church smart one.
BrittanLacey71 2 years ago
The video doesn't show a protest. It shows people that need to use the rest room. Even if they weren't Christians, people should be able to use a rest room. It didn't say "PRIVATE REST ROOM". It was a public restroom.
KakkoiGuy1 2 years ago
It had nothing to do with whether they were Christian or not. They were there to cause problems, and the security was probably worried that these people were going to try to accost people using the restroom who were trying to enjoy the pageant.
And they were not public restrooms. They were there for the comfort of those who came to ENJOY the pageant.
If you want to represent Christ, then ACT like Christ.
lindalds 2 years ago
baha. you have no life.
BrittanLacey71 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
the Spirit and the bride say come quickly Lord Jesus....comfort yourselves with the words of scripture as wickedness increases world wide.watch and pray.accept Jesus as your God and saviour and show evidence of being born again,by having a change of mind and heart,whereby the heart was the worst thing to God and people,but now the best.
bibliosca 2 years ago
This is great & so is the manti mocking vid.
mrskcinvegas 3 years ago
How well do you know the LDS doctrine? Because, unless you have a PERFECT knowledge of the church's doctrines, you are completely unqualified to make a judgement call of any kind. You can certainly disagree. The LDS church is in the unique position of declaring that it has the fulness of the Everlasting Gospel. Having the Fullness implies that it is complete, it doesn't mean everyone else is wrong. Following Christ isn't about overpowering people, it's about winning them ove, loving them over.
deboradec3160 3 years ago
deboradec
Perfect knowledge? if Gordon Hinkley did not have a perfect knowledge why would it be required of me? He was asked if God was once a man, which is a basic principle of the LDS, and he said he did not know, So either he was not truthful or he did not have a perfect knowledge
Is the fullness of the gospel found in the BofM?
I know the LDS doctrine well
Following Christ is about truth and trust in Him
Was Paul tolerant to false teachers
Was God tolerant to Belshazzar
chords7 3 years ago
deboradec
can you please answer my questions
chords7 3 years ago
Do you think that Gordon Hinkley didn't trust in God? He does trust in God and doesn't question Him. Work out your own salvation and stop pointing your finger and mocking.
fairlds . org
Watch the Video titled:
"Joseph Smith WASN'T a liar."
by FAQMORMON
fairlds . org
GodLovedJosephSmith 3 years ago
Is this supposed to go down as some kind of atrocity or something? Mormons defending their turf...how dare they! Outrageous! And all while this nice group well mannered "Christians"(protesters) were innocently going about their bigotry. Wait a sec...Mormons are Christians...but...that...means...(gulp)
deboradec3160 3 years ago
deboradec
Was it bigotry for Paul to preach against false teachers or against a false gospel of works and righteousness by the law?
Was it bigotry for Christ to tell the Pharisees they were hypocrites and a brood of vipers?
It is a great misuse of the word bigot to say those who share the truth of the gospel to the lost are bigots
If your use of the word is correct are the missionaries who proselytize at my door to be called bigots?
Shall I share bigoted claims of the LDS with you?
chords7 3 years ago
Simple answers for your first two questions: YOU are not Paul and YOU are not Christ and THIS is not the 1st Century AD.
Someone taking the trouble to post this CRIME OF HUMANITY on Youtube shows their true motive and it wasn't saintly. Bigots are people who can't tolerate a different race, religion, or voice, etc... Check the dictionary.
If the missionaries were teaching intolerance toward others I'd agree with you but they aren't.
deboradec3160 3 years ago
deboradec
The actions are the same. So are you saying some people can be bigoted and it is okay and some cannot depending on who they are?
Does God have different standards for different people?
Does the LDS accept my beliefs as valid toward living in eternity with God? If they do not then by your definition they are bigoted.
Do you accept my religion as efficacious for eternal life with God?
chords7 3 years ago
Careful!
Who does the Bible say were "God's people" before Jesus ministry? The Israelites/Jews.
How have Christians treated Jews historically? Not like God's people.
We believe that the Bible is the Word of God but there a many "plain and precious truths" that were lost over time. We think of it as a companion to the BOM. Much is clearified by reading the BOM, it supports the Bible. We teach that the authority to do sacred ordinances was over time. It had to be restored and it was.
deboradec3160 3 years ago
deboradec
I did not see an answer to my questions
Is it okay for some to be bigoted and some not?
Who can and who cannot be bigoted and why does God allow some to be bigoted and not others?
Does the LDS accept my beliefs as valid toward living in eternity with God?
If they don't why are they not tolerant of my religious beliefs?
If we can believe what we want and no one has the right to tell us we are wrong why is God not tolerant of my religious beleifs?
chords7 3 years ago
Chords7,
Bigotry is a learned behavior and usually has more to do with ignorance. God tolerates every kind of behavior.
The intent in posting it is clear...it's a smear tactic. Did someone smear you?
11th article of faith: We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
deboradec3160 3 years ago
deboradec
If you think God tolerates every kind of behavior you are most sadly in complete error.
Does God tolerate false prophets or idols? Does He tolerate false teachers? Or will He judge the wicked to outerdarkness?
The 11th article of faith sounds like a political document but sounds nothing like the Bible
Smear tactic? The intent of the posting is not to smear but to show what happened at Manti by the restrooms.
But is reporting that smearing or truthful?
chords7 3 years ago
Yes God tolerates a great deal, even disparaging remarks that people make about the LDS Church. You and yours are allowed to to that...it's not right but thats free agency.
He tolerates a great deal of falseness. On occassion he intervenes as the scriptures point out...but, he does tolerate the untolerable.
The Articles of Faith are a plain and simple declaration of our beliefs...It's not supposed to sound like the Bible, why should it?
Absolutely a smear tactic.100%
deboradec3160 3 years ago
deboradec
God is only tolerant to a point Then His wrath and judgment are shown If someone is in a false religion or heeding the words of a false prophet over Gods when His tolerance ends - then it is wrath
as Christians we are not to tolerate false teachings but to show the truth - to share the true gospel If they do not listen we are to have nothing to do with them, not even eat with them
Did Christ display article 11 in Matthew 23 towards the Pharisees? or Paul to false teachers
chords7 3 years ago
It would seem that there are a lot of "false religions" out there. The LDS Church teaches that there are pieces of the truth scattered around the various religions. Some believe this, some believe that. Some don't know what they believe. You know.
Christians are supposed to be peacemakers, merciful,a light unto the world,meek.
Christ didn't display the llth article of faith in Matthew 23 because he was too busy pronouncing woes upon the scribes and Pharisees.
deboradec3160 3 years ago
deboradec
There are certainly pieces of truth in most religions But pieces of truth in a false religion or in a lie is not what give us eternal life
The simple truth is Christ is the only name in heaven by which we get eternal life If our truth does not include Him as the sole means of eternal life then any other truth we may have is pointless
Define meek?
He was pronouncing woes upon them because He had no tolerance for their religious practices
Their truth was not the truth
chords7 3 years ago
Meek = humble, teachable, submissive.
Christ is the only name in heaven by which we get eternal life. So how do you go about bringing people to Christ? You share his Gospel with them. The Holy Ghost will bare witness to the truth.
The Pharisees prided themselves on their strict observance of the law...they had lost the Spirit of the law. In other words they were zealots. They were also a major obstacle to the reception of Christ and the Gospel by the Jewish people.
deboradec3160 3 years ago
Deboradec part 1
Meek is different today, it synonymous with weakness or submissiveness, being docile then meant to be gentle or humble Not humble as in submissive but humble as in not overly prideful you could be most strong but humble
Someone can be meek and still be forceful
I share the supportable gospel and truth The Holy Spirit supports truth but people are today blinded to the truth by satan and satan can transform as an angel of light making people believe they have truth
chords7 3 years ago
Meek can be applied differently, but I didn't mean docile, or weak. I meant humble.
You can be humble and forceful? Check again. I do think there is strength in humility.
I think my husband's ex-wife is Satan. She's the only person I know that can act like your best friend while she secretly plots your murder.
deboradec3160 3 years ago
Deboradec part 2
If we stray from Gods Word (Bible) we are more easily blinded to the true gospel
Pharisees thought they were righteous through following of the law and were hypocrites Did Christ tolerate them and their obstacle to Him? NO Then why should I or anyone else be tolerant of a partial truth or deceit? Why should a Christian tolerate a different gospel claimed to be the same? Are we to be tolerant of the Pharisees of today? Or should we show them the truth of the real gospel?
chords7 3 years ago
I think I asked you before, but are you a native of the area? Manti
The reason I ask is because Manti is a small town. I'm familiar with it as I had relatives that lived in Ephraim and we used to visit them when I was a kid.
If you are a native then you probably are surrounded by LDS. My heart goes out to you. It would be tuff to say the least. I still think this was wrong but I'm not without understanding. Try a carrot next time. :) Seek for a better understanding.
deboradec3160 3 years ago
Deboradec
No not from Manti. I do know some people there, several families who are are former LDS and one in Ephraim.
I had some great conversations while there in Manti with LDS from all over.
The former LDS families are treated very poorly by many locals, so for them it is very difficult.
it was only difficult to me to see the great doctrinal error and falseness in good people.
The restroom incident was about their embarrassment over the accurate depiction of Smith's 34 wives
chords7 3 years ago
It sounds like there might be a need for a town hall meeting. Non Mormons feel their buttons were pushed and Mormons sometimes have a hard time dealing with criticism. It happens.Small towns can be surprisingly hostile places any part of America. In the Bible Belt Mormons can be subjectedto some pretty crappy treatment by non-mormons. It's poor understanding of each other most of the time. I respect a persons devotion to God but I've traveled around alot. Lol, I'm surrounded by non-Christians.
deboradec3160 3 years ago
deboradec
Do you respect the muslims devotion to their god? or the devotion of the Hindus to their many gods? or respect the satanist devotion to their god?
If yes, why would you respect the devotion of a people to a false god?
If no, why not? they believe with all their heart and know he (the god they worship) is their god.
I have traveled quite extensively as well.
chords7 3 years ago
I do respect a persons devotion to whoever or however they choose to worship, even if they choose not to worship. That's the great thing about living in a free society. Did you hear about the guy in Afghanistan that became a Christian and the local leaders wanted to execute him? It's a huge blessing to be born in this country and to be able to worship according to ones conscience.
I believe we all worship God the way we understand God. I don't make enemies of people because of their belief.
deboradec3160 3 years ago
deboradec
Did Christ respect the devotion of the pharisees? Did Paul respect the devotion of the false teachers or false prophets?
The answer is of course NO they did not
Does God respect the devotion of those who worship idols?
Don't get the freedom to worship how we please in a free society confused with the the freedom we have to choose or not choose God
In the end society will not judge you to eternal outerdarkness
We must worship God in Spirit and Truth Not our truth but HIS
chords7 3 years ago
Paul was a Pharisee persecuted Christians. He took part in the martyrdom of Stephen. He started for Damascus to further the persecution and on the road saw a vision of the Savior, which changed the whole current of his life.
God permits people to choose. One of the reasons we're here is to learn. This is another LDS teaching. Many people who were formerly lost have made miraculous changes in their lives. We believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ makes bad men good and good men better.
deboradec3160 3 years ago
deboradec
We are talking about after Paul was a Christian Did Christ respect the devotion of the pharisees for whatever reason? Did Paul respect false teachers and false prophets devotion The persecution of Christians is proof positive he did not respect the devotion and his teachings after his conversion shows he had no tolerance for false teachings with/without a respect for devotion
The gospel of Christ presents the good news of eternal life by grace, the result is bad men being good
chords7 3 years ago
Before Paul had his vision he believed he was doing what was right. The Lord is capable of seeing into our hearts. We are not capable of that. We don't have the right to judge anyone. In fact, that is basic to Christianity.
Matt. 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
deboradec3160 3 years ago
deboradec
and after Paul's conversion did he tolerate those who were false prophets and false teachers?
I do not have to see into someones heart to know if their doctrine is correct
Do you have to see into a muslims heart to know if he has Christ? Muslims do not believe in Christ as any more than a prophet)
I cannot judge the heart but I can know if their doctrine is false
Please answer the question
Was Christ tolerant of the pharisees and was Paul tolerant of false teachers
chords7 3 years ago
deboradec
Read further in Matt 7 and Luke 6 don't just quote it read it in context
They are not a prohibition against judging peoples doctrine or their actions, it is telling us not to judge wrongly I am judging LDS doctrine against the Bible
Does it say I cannot judge or does it tell me to judge rightly?
This is not judging to hell this is correcting someone's false doctrine, something we are all to do
Don't have a superficial understanding of the Bible, know it in context
chords7 3 years ago
deboradec
Can you show me what plain and precious truths were lost over time?
if not how do you know they were lost?
If so show me what was lost?
What sacred ordinances do you mean? The ones the Aaronic priests did?
chords7 3 years ago
Scottsdale part A
quote Jackie Chan movies all you want but you have avoided the actual questions
I asked if you died right now do you know if you have eternal life You did not say yes or no or even I am not sure
You said "I have fought a good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith"
Does that mean yes or no or not sure or does it mean you have been good
This is not a game this is eternity seek the truth
God said you can know you have eternal life
chords7 3 years ago
chords - I am not avoided anything. Stop being dishonest. You just did not like my answer. Sorry...deal with it.
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
Okay then answer these questions for me:
If the LDS was wrong would you want to know?
Understanding the differences in the LDS teachings between who goes to the LDS three levels of heaven, tell me what most likely happens to me if I do not accept Mormonism.
Do I go to outerdarkness or one of the three levels?
Now tell me what mostly likely happens to you according to Christianity if the LDS is false?
chords7 3 years ago
chords - What is your point. Stop trying to play games, just make your point. I am not going to fall for your silly little traps.
Yes, but I would want someone to share with me what they believe is true and not criticize what I believed.
I don't know what will happen to you; I am not God. I cannot make that judgment.
I don't know what would happen to me according to the SBC if the LDS is false. Again, I am not God.
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
I am not trying to trap you into anything
I asked you mainly what the LDS taught for clarification on your beliefs
Yes I would like to discuss with you the difference between the LDS and Christianity and take the questions and their answers to beyond a superficial thought or application
There is no trap, perhaps it seems that way and I can understand that But there is no trap
Typically LDS teachings are superficially Christian sounding but in depth they are far different
chords7 3 years ago
chords -- First, we need to clarify when you speak you are not speaking on behalf of "Christianity." You can tell me what the SBC believe regarding Christian doctrines, but that is the limit. Mormons are just as "Christian" as the SBC.
I don't believe you. If you merely wanted clarification, then you would ask for clarification. None of your questions reveal a desire to clarify a point of doctrine.
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
As I have mentioned several times I don't care about the SBC view, I am a member of the Body of Christ as a believer in Him and membership in an organization means little to nothing.
Nope I do not speak on behalf of Christianity but I can support everything I say with the word of god from the Bible and without another gospel or the claims of a prophet of a church
chords7 3 years ago
chords - So are you admitting that the SBC is not true? If so, why are you affiliated with it?
I can support everything I say with the word of god from the Bible. So where does that leave us? "For the teachers of religion of the different sects [understand] the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible."
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
Not sure what you mean by SBC being true?
i do not rely on the SBC for my truth the doctrine of the SBC is biblical the Holy Spirit is the authority
SBC is no more "true" than any other organization that trusts God to not have allowed His Word to fail and teaches the Bible as the only written word of God
The SBC is simply an organization over the church organization I attend If I left the SBC tomorrow it would not matter one tiny bit as far as my salvation is concerned
chords7 3 years ago
chords - Do you believe that the SBC was organized by Jesus Christ? Do you believe that Christ leads your Church through your leaders? (that is what I mean by true)
If you can't rely upon the teachings of your own Church, how can you sit there an attack my Church and its teachings? (Don't you think that is a little hypocritical?)
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
Scottsdale 1
Our individual levels of reliance in our churches is different I trust the pastor to be lead by the Holy Spirit and I too am indwelled by the Holy Spirit, all believers are I do not trust anyone but God with my eternal life and I do have eternal life without the SBC or the church building I attend
Why - because my eternal life is ONLY in Christ, my faith is in Christ not a church Can you have eternal life without the LDS? If you cannot then your trust is in them before God
chords7 3 years ago
scottsdale 2
God said His Word would never pass away and He said believe on Him and I can know I have eternal life, I trust His claim and I do not put trust that level of trust in any church organization because men are capricious and men lie for their own power and gain.
The SBC as I have said several times has no part at all in my eternal life it is a place to fellowship, listen to Gods Word, be baptized with water, and grow in faith plus have pot luck dinners (kidding)
chords7 3 years ago
scottsdale 3
I believe the Lord leads and called my pastor to be a preacher and I believe He called each of the people there to be there. I believe the SBC was a group of men called by God to preach the gospel, they started the SBC as a place to organize believers and protect the truth of the gospel in their doctrine. They error like anyone else but that is why I do not trust men or a church for my eternal life
chords7 3 years ago
scottsdale
I have heard that quote before The problem is the different sects (baptist, methodist, etc...) all teach the same foundational truth of Christianity The Bible as the sole source of the God breathed Word, salvation by grace, the crucifixion and resurrection, the righteousness through Christ alone and a few others
The main differences have no affect on eternal life and are minor They are basically the same with preferences preaching styles, legalistic views, prophecy, gifts etc
chords7 3 years ago
chords -- If the different sects teach the same foundational truth, then why are they not organized a ONE Church?
Do a little research into the doctrines of other Churches (including your own) then get back to me on that one, okay.
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
They are all under one organization, they are each a part of the body of believers which is the One True Church Christ established
The organizations of men (denom's) are just a means of organizing people, building meeting places, studying, fellowship and growing in faith etc. The center and focus of this one church is Christs' eternal life and His work
Even in their minor differences they all still belong to one church, of which Christ is the head and Bible the written Word
chords7 3 years ago
chords -- Really? Do you know what an organization is? I sincerely hope you are not so naive to believe that? I don't know what fantasy world you live in, but back here on planet earth unfortunately there is no such organization that includes all Christian denominations.
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
Not an organization on planet earth. The group of people that are all believers in Christ that belong to Him, is nondenominational and is the Body of Christ
This is the group folks who are in the book of life and know they have eternity with God.
It transcends all the denominational claims of men and is solely headed by God
Organization was a poor choice of words to describe it especially in the vein of discussing organizations of men.
chords7 3 years ago
chords -- So do you believe that your Church is an organization of men?
So does the "group of folks" include Methodists, Baptists, and Catholics? Who do you include in this "group of folks"?
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
I know you are not the one that makes that judgment
I wanted to know what the LDS taught in those regards
Doesn't the LDS teach that most everyone has salvation, except the sons of perdition and a very small handful of people?
That is my point, if the LDS teaches pretty much all people are saved to one of the three levels of heaven, I will be in a heaven when I die Does that makes sense?
Even if I am not a Mormon I will not be in hell, according to the LDS, I will be saved
chords7 3 years ago
chords - If you want to know what LDS teach. Then ask me what we believe. Don't ask a leading question intended to illicit a particular response.
No we do NOT teach everyone has salvation. That does not make sense. What is the point of life, if we all automatically have salvation? There would be no motivation to believe in or follow Jesus Christ. There would be no motivation to do good.
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
Can you either define the LDS concept of General salvation or give me a credible reference?
awill the book "Mormon Doctrine" suffice as a credible source for that definition?
and possibly give me an answer or a source that shows who will be in the telestial heaven and what they did to get there?
And as a side question normally, not in theology, what would the word terrestrial and telestial mean?
What is the definition of tele and terra?
chords7 3 years ago
chords --
For a reference on salvation read: Mosiah 3.
Mormon Doctrine can be a good reference if you can understand it. However, based upon your prior comments, I would suggest that you read the BofM before you consult that book.
Read D&C 76 and 1 Cor 15 for more on the telestial kingdom.
I will let you look up what terrestial and telestial (terra and tele) mean. You have a tendency not to listen to my answers, so I will let you look it up for yourself. (See, Bible Dictionary)
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
Okay I will read those
But I am most familiar with 1 Cor 15 and there is no support for three levels of heaven
nor is there a telestial kingdom mentioned
I see the word terrestrial when discussing the two different bodies - one being natural (terrestrial - of the earth) which came first and one being spiritual (celestial) which is after the resurrection
The terrestrial (on earth) body in corruption then the resurrection to an incorruptible body (to heaven)
chords7 3 years ago
chords -- I am not going to get in an argument over semantics and interpretation. So if you don't agree with my interpretation, then you are going to have to show me why your interpretation is any better.
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
Scottsdale part B
And another example - I asked is the LDS God an exalted man - you after two weeks said I do not know the history of God. He is not a man, he is God" and "..that as man is, God once was, and as God is, man may become"
The LDS teaches that god is an exalted man yet you avoided saying that and answered a different question You are not answering my questions you are making your own and answering them
That is avoiding not only the question but the truth of the answer
chords7 3 years ago
chords - I did not avoid anything. You are being dishonest.
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
Scottsdale part II
JW, 7th Day Adv and Assembly of God outgrew the LDS - Is that good fruit too?
In 2004 the LDS global missionary force dropped from near 62,000 to about 51,000
Nearly 80% of LDS convert baptisms are outside the US and it is estimated that 50% of US LDS converts and 75% of foreign converts stop attending after a year
chords7 3 years ago
chords - What is your hold up over numbers? Since when does the number of members of a Church prove its validity?
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
Scottsdale
I don't care about the numbers You used them to prove a point I showed you that numbers don't matter
Actually according to Christ very few are will be in heaven
chords7 3 years ago
chords -- I don't think you understand what I am saying. It is like you don't even read what I say.
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
I know the feeling
chords7 3 years ago
Scottsdale part I
I went to the LDS site as you suggested It did not give the numbers I asked you about
I asked how many converts stay after the first year and of the 13M members how many were active The LDS does not give that info
You said you researched it, where did you get your info?
Here is what I found out
Of the 13M claimed members only about 4M are active LDS converts actually declined from 1996 (321,385) to 2004 (241,239) In the 90s it dropped from 5 to 3 percent growth
chords7 3 years ago
chords -- Are you kidding me? Only 4 million active? Where did you get that number from? I know you are good at making things up, but come on?
I NEVER told you how many LDS were active and how many are not. When did I say I researched it?
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
Scottsdale part I
Attacking the messenger does not discredit the message nor answer the questions I don't care about the numbers, it is you that claimed the 13M members and 50k missionaries was a result of the LDS interpretation, indicating that those numbers supported the LDS interpretation as true You said you researched and gave me the LDS site If my source is not correct give me a credible source of people actually active in the LDS and the converts active after a year
chords7 3 years ago
chords -- I agree 'ATTACKING THE MESSENGER DOES NOT DISCREDIT THE MESSAGE.' Remember your own words the next time you want to say something negative about Joseph Smith.
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
is it really a personal attack to say a man who had 34 wives is an adulterer?
What shall I call a man with multiple wives also married to other men? Adulterer or inspired?
Was is not fornication when he was caught with Fannie Alger neither married at the time to each other?
Is is not fornication or adultery because it is not or because you place him in high regard?
Would it be acceptable for me to say John Edwards is not an adulterer because I respect him?
chords7 3 years ago
Scottsdale Part II
If that many came to the LDS because of such a powerful interpretation that is more valid than others, they should mostly all still be there
I asked you if you could give me ref to the numbers who leave and the growth rate compared to society, you gave me the LDS site which did not give that information
I found the info that shows of the 13M apparently about 2/3 did not like the interpretation after all, you used the numbers not me, the 13M active is unsupportable
chords7 3 years ago
scottsdale
all that and you still have not addressed the questions. No wonder your getting tired of the game but you are the only one playing
Ask me to clarify or just answer the questions
What is there to hide? Why must you be so careful with the answers that you have to guard them with avoidance techniques and a spin on the truth
chords7 3 years ago
chords - Stop and use a little common sense please. Forget your bias, forget your disagreements. If you really understood LDS doctrines and history, you would be Mormon.
I am not trying to hide anything. I am not trying to be careful. I am merely pointing out what is wrong with your so called "questions." I answer them and you don't like the answers, so now I am calling you out. Deal with it!
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
That is not true
I know many people who understand the LDS and left because they did One man was LDS for 54 years another 28 some in between, they know the LDS And they left because God allowed them to see the bondage and deceit in the LDS
If you were not trying to hide anything you could have and would have answered the questions without avoiding
Your truth is the LDS system and you are blinded to Gods truth because of your dedication to the LDS, you cannot see its lies
chords7 3 years ago
scottsdale
But you are still trying to hide it
My questions were simple, the problem is found in the answer within LDS doctrine
The truthful answers caused great angst since you could not give them honestly, so you avoid them
It is not just you, MOST Mormons will not answer questions about the LDS religion in a straightforward manner
Sadly until you address the real answer you will not find the truth in Gods Word and will be lost in the LDS system, in which there is no eternal life
chords7 3 years ago
chords - "DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THE WORDS COMING OUT OF MY MOUTH?"
No one is avoiding your questions! You are asking ridiculous "questions," which are more statements than questions. I give you answers, and you don't like them so you say I am being evasive. Give me a break. I am tired of your dumb little games.
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
What is ridiculous about these two questions or is it ridiculous to ask if it is ridiculous
If you died today would you have eternal life?
or
Is the LDS god an exalted man? (they teach that he is - so how is it ridiculous)
chords7 3 years ago
chords - I answered both of those questions. I am not going to repeat myself.
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
I asked if you died now would you have eternal life You did not answer that question you answered a completely different question that no one asked That is avoiding
I did not ask if you died now would you have kept the faith or lived a good life, I asked if you died now would you have eternal life with God?
You avoiding an answer by changing the quesion most LDS do that
Also no answer on - is the LDS god an exalted man or what if you are wrong and I am right..
chords7 3 years ago
chords - How have I changed or avoided the question? Are you really so simple minded to believe that you and I interpret the same words similarly. I do not know what you are thinking or what point you are trying to make, but please do not make such ignorant statements.
I answered your questions, you just did not like my answers!
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
Okay then
My intent is to know if the LDS teaching is that and if you believe if you die today you will be accepted into eternal life with God
I am not interested in if you lived a good life or if you kept the faith. There will be many atheist who lived a good life and many muslims who kept their faith
Why can you not just give a yes or no answer?
My answer and most Christians would be YES if I died today I would have eternal life with God
Is that more clear?
chords7 3 years ago
chords -- Who do you think you are? God?
Why can't I give a yes or no answer? Because it is not as simple as yes or no.
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
Scottsdale
Wow two condescending post in a row
If you cannot say yes then you don't know, so the answer would be NO, I do not know
In the LDS you cannot know, in Christianity you can know
1 John 5:13 says we can know we have eternal life. "13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God"
Eternal life is a gift given to us through the grace of Gods mercy
chords7 3 years ago
chords -- What did I say that was condescending?
Why did you ask me a question, if you were just trying to trick me and tell me what I believed even if I told you to the contrary? I am tired of your games.
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
Scottsdale
So you don't think saying to someone "Who do you think you are? God?" is condescending? Though it is kind of ironic that the LDS teaches men can be a god.
or "If you aren't getting the response you are looking for, perhaps you were not clear in your question. I can't read your mind." It was not that difficult of a question.
Either you know or you don't know.
Is there more than one definition of eternal life?
chords7 3 years ago
chords -- No I don't think it is condescending. It is a question. (If you thought it was condescending, I apologize.)
Is there more than one religion?.... Then yes, there is more than one definition.
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
There may be more than one religion all with a god of its own but the number of religions do not determine the actual truth
A muslim can believe he has the truth and a Christian can believe he has the truth, but the simple fact is there is only one truth not two different ones
But we are talking about Christianity and the differences between Gods proven truth and the LDS claims of truth, they are very different. Thus one is not true
chords7 3 years ago
chords - So who has the truth?
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
the truth about which topic?
I have shown you three : God is NOT an exalted man; Christ is not the spirit brother of satan and if I am wrong about the LDS error then I will still spend eternity in an LDS heaven, no matter what And if you are wrong you will not be in a heaven anywhere Those are truths
AS far as who has it that would be Christ as the head of the body of believers and the Holy Spirit who is to bring Glory to Christ It is not the LDS with a wholly different gospel
chords7 3 years ago
chords - I am getting tired of your ridiculous questions. They are all leading questions that assume a particular answer in the question. They are all biased and not intended to really discover what I believe. They are asked in an attempt to try to make a point. If I tell you what you want to hear, then you have a prepared response to refute my beliefs. If I tell you something different, then you claim I am evasive.
I am tired of your little games. Send me a message when you really care.
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
I have no prepared responses and would have been shocked if you answered any of them honestly That is just what mormons do, they avoid
How can is the LDS god an exalted man be a leading question? It is most simple, the LDS teaches he is so the yes answer would of been right
If you asked I would say NO, because my church nor the bible supports God as a man
I am not playing games, I am just asking questions too hard for you to face the answer to so you have to avoid it somehow
chords7 3 years ago
scottsdale
Because you are not addressing the question, you are either answering what you think I should of asked, or giving a more palatable Christian sounding answer to avoid true LDS doctrine, or you are avoiding the question outright or all of the above
I am not trying to trick you into anything I am simply asking you what the LDS teaches or you believe.
I asked if you died did you have eternal life you avoided with a different answer to a question I did not ask - you are avoiding
chords7 3 years ago
chords -- Well maybe you should be more clear when you ask a question. If you aren't getting the response you are looking for, perhaps you were not clear in your question. I can't read your mind.
I am not avoiding anything. (You are the one who refuses to discuss your own faith and instead focus on criticizing my faith.)
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
Even if I am clear you still avoid the question. But if I was not in this case I humbly apologize
Now what happens to me if you right and I am wrong about the LDS "gospel"? Where do I spend eternity?
Also if I am right and you are wrong? If the LDS is false then were do you spend eternity?
You have asked me nothing about my faith in God. I don't put any faith in a church denomination, my eternal life and truth are solely from God
Is the LDS god an exalted man? yes or no
chords7 3 years ago
chords -- I don't know where you or I would spend eternity.
Stop playing games.
Is your god not God? yes or no
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsale
So you ask an intentionally ambiguous question The difference is I will not avoid the question or answer a different question, you do
just to clarify are you asking me if my God is God?
If so then I would say why YES of course He is God.
He is the God without beginning, He was not a man at any time and has always been God, He is God "from everlasting to everlasting" no beginning and no end. He is not our literal father but our father by the Spirit.
Was that your question?
chords7 3 years ago
scottsdale
LDS doctrine is quite clear on where most folks will wind up for eternity
That is in one of three levels of heaven
Mormon Doctrine says most adult people since Adam will be in the telestial heaven and will be those who are liars and thieves sorcerers etc
then those in the terrestrial heaven will be those who reject the gospel in this life but accept it in the next
So I will be in one of three levels of heaven even IF I AM WRONG in this life And those two are still great
chords7 3 years ago
scottsdale
even if you are a faithful Mormon if you do not complete ALL the works necessary you will be in the terrestial heaven with me
if you are wrong then you will not be in any heaven
That is why you actually looking at the truth of Gods Word outside the LDS is so important, the LDS god is an exalted man not God
the rich man in Luke 16 did not get a second chance he was doomed to eternal torment and there is no mention of a level of heaven or repentance or acceptance after death
chords7 3 years ago
chords - You do not understand LDS doctrines. So why do you continue to comment about them.
You are beginning to bore me.
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
Oh but I do understand. I comment on them so you will understand.
chords7 3 years ago
Scottsdale
I find it most concerning that you have to lead so many responses with a personal attack
Are you going to answer my question about what if I am wrong and you are right or what if I am right and you are wrong? Or are you going to avoid or "interpret? that differently too?
According to LDS doctrine if I am wrong, what is the state of my soul?
According to Christian doctrine if you are wrong, what is the state of your soul?
Stop avoiding
chords7 3 years ago
"He that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another."
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."
chords7 3 years ago
what in the hell are you trying to prove all you did by putting this on here is made yourselfs look stupid. if you dont like what other people are doing and dont agree with the pagent then why do you go. you should have been arrestted and forced to use the bathroom there for disturbing the peace.
people all have a right to believe what they want but mormans dont go to other churches functions to protest that is just wrong. plus you can hear the cops tell you where there is a public bathroom
forgivingpuppy 3 years ago
forgiving puppy
You can also hear the cops say that the restroom where we are is a public restroom. Listen for the radio transmission about time marker 1:11-1:15.
Why is the policeman calling it a public restroom if it is not a public restroom?
Were you there to know the whole story?
If you would of been you would know the restrooms were open FOR PUBLIC use and only when the Christians wore early 1800s clothes and dresses as Smiths 34 wives did the restroom become not public
chords7 3 years ago
Scottsdale
That is the short version about 350 words, not 500. Realizing that the LDS and Christianity have different meanings of many of the same words. Which many times causes confusion when we talk
Now what do you believe?
Also I want you to notice that on the video above the police call the restrooms the "public restrooms" see about 1:11-1:14
Even the police knew they were public restrooms
chords7 3 years ago
chord- Did you know that the SBC was created in 1845 in a split with the American Baptist Convention over the question of whether slave owners could be missionaries. The SBC actively opposed civil rights through 1970s, and many congregations excluded Blacks from membership. In fact, the SBC apologized in 1995 for their blatantly rascist beginnings. Did you know that? (touche')
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
Touche'?
Good thing I am not racist and a good thing I do not rely on the SBC or ABC for my salvation
It is even better that the God I worship did not decide in 1978 that blacks were then worthy of a priesthood they had been worthy all along to be believers in Christ and priests to Him
Shall I post some of the abhorrent quotes against black people from LDS leadership? Do you really want to go there?
Why is it (according to LDS) people with dark skin have dark skin?
chords7 3 years ago
chords -- You are kidding right? You belong to a Church that has a long history of racism. And you want to compare the priesthood with membership in the Church? People of color have always been welcome in the LDS Church. People have dark skin b/c that is the way God created them. Why do some people have big noses?
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
That is not what the LDS teaches. The LDS has taught that "black skin is a curse of heaven"
"There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is born white. .."
what is the REASON for the black skin according to the LDS?
"after the flood we are told that the CURSE that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through HAM'S WIFE....because it was necessary that the devil should have a representative on earth as well as God"
chords7 3 years ago
chords -- Are you really going to sit there and try to tell me what my Church does or does not teach? Really? How would you like it if I started to do the same to you? (But, I don't think you want to know what the SBC taught regarding skin color.) Please ask, don't tell!
I told you the reason, if you don't like my answer then that is your problem. God created both light and dark skin and he loves everyone equally despite the color of their skin. (That is what the LDS Church teaches.)
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
You may believe that but that is NOT the history of the LDS.
The LDS teaches that dark skin is a curse and was caused by disobedience in the preexistence
may not be what you believe but that is LDS teaching
What is the LDS official teaching on WHY dark skinned people have dark skin? Can you answer that?
chords7 3 years ago
chords -- Really? You (who does not know the history of his own Churhc) are trying to tell me that is not the history of my own church. Come on man! Give me a break!
I have answered your question at least twice now. People have dark skin because that is the way God created them. God loves all his children regardless of the color of their skin. (That is what the LDS Church teaches.)
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
that may be your answer and I would agree with that answer but that is simply not what they LDS has taught.
chords7 3 years ago
chords -- That is what the LDS Church has taught and still teaches. Sorry to disappoint. Not every church was a rascist as the SBC. (touche')
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
if you honestly think that is what the LDS has taught then you are fooling yourself. Look into the history you say you enjoy.
You are not being honest Why are you trying to bypass the issue?
Why does the LDS, NOT YOU, but the LDS say people with dark skin have dark skin?
The fully correct and honest answer is NOT because God made them that way.
WHY did God (according to LDS) give people dark skin? BE HONEST
chords7 3 years ago
chords -- You do NOT know what the LDS Church teaches. (You do not even know what your church teaches or your own church's history.)
You are so set on finding error in the LDS Church that you have created your own misconception of what the LDS Church is and what it teaches. The LDS Church in your mind, is not the LDS Church that I belong to. I belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, which is lead by Christ himself.
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
Christ spent his time with thieves, lairs, and prostitutes. yet the LDS church denies women the use of a restroom.
randyddj 3 years ago
It looks like from this video that it was police or sheriff officers that denied them use of a restroom. I don't think this is a religious issue.
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
Scottsdale
I was standing right there about 10 feet away. The gentleman who denied them access said he was an official of the LDS church and you (the women) are not allowed on this property.
He called a security guy who then called the sheriff deputies.
chords7 3 years ago
chords -- Okay, thank you for clarifying. So these were NOT public restrooms but private restrooms. Why didn't you admit to this earlier?
In that case, then the owners of the private property have the right to deny access to the restrooms. So, what is the big deal?
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
What in the world is wrong with you? We have spoken of this many times and you are still grasping at air to make this sound reasonable
I even gave you the minutes mark on the video of the sheriff saying it was a PUBLIC bathroom. Your arguments are ridiculous and have no merit.
Why do you avoid the truth?
if had been used as private ONLY for the first week it would not have been an issue.
It was purely religious
chords7 3 years ago
chords -- You still have been unable to explain what is so wrong with being denied use of a PRIVATE restroom. You still have failed to articulate how this was a religious issue (besides saying they were Mormon and we aren't). So...who is avoiding the issues?
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
is it okay to move in 4 mobile trailers designed to be restrooms and moved in specifically for use as public restroom, allow EVERYONE to use those restrooms designated as public use, have the sheriff even call for his support to the "public" restrooms (indicating that EVERY security officer and sheriff deputy KNEW he was referring to those restrooms as being for public use) then stop ONLY Christians from using the restroom?
Reminds me of blacks not allowed in public restaurants
chords7 3 years ago
chords -- Make up your mind. First they were public, then they were private, now they are public and private. First it was a sheriff that prevented your access, then it was an LDS authority, now it is a security officer and sheriff. Come on man. You're contradicting yourself. Make a decision and stick to it.
Also, it appears that they were allowing Christians and non-Christians the restroom.
You forget to mention that blacks were not allowed in YOUR church. (touche')
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
Why it is you must so vainly attempt to discredit people You avoid a real response to the question and conduct this ridiculous mocking that is not true
I have said all along they were PUBLIC restrooms on private property to which the PUBLIC was given access. And you also know but must attempt to spin the truth that I have said it was an LDS official who first made the call and he was backed up by the security and sheriff You are NOT being honest
Do you have any integrity
chords7 3 years ago
scottsdale
The LDS church is led by a prophet who claims to be led by a christ. But that christ is wholly different than the Christ of the Bible.
The Christ of the Bible is eternally God, from the beginning is God and the creator and sustainer of all things,He is also the creator of satan
The christ of the LDS is simply one of millions of babies of god the exalted man from one of his multiple wives and the LDS christ is the spirit brother of satan.
chords7 3 years ago
chords -- That is not true. The Christ that we worship is the same Christ spoken of in the Bible. (Even if you do not agree, that is what we believe.) You falsely represent what the LDS believe.
Why do you not ask me what I believe, rather than telling me? I gave you the respect to ask you what you believed, why can't you do me the same?
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
The Christ of the Bible is solely sufficient and it is only by His righteousness that we see eternal life with God.
The LDS christ cannot save you in your sin, the Biblical Christ came to save you in your sin
I do not falsely represent anything.
Is the LDS christ the spirit brother of satan/lucifer?
Is the LDS god an exalted man?
How many gods are there, TOTAL, not just the one we deal with but any and all gods?
NOW WHERE DID I falsely represent anything?
chords7 3 years ago
chords -- You just falsely represented LDS beliefs in this last comment. You tried to distinguish between the LDS Christ and a "Biblical Christ," when you know and I know that Mormons read the Bible. That is a false representation. Should I go on?
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
Scottsdale
Yes please go on. I know you read the bible but but only sparingly trust it
You accused me of false representation BUT STILL AVOIDED the question.
Which is the most correct the BoM or Bible?
You said I a false impression yet you did not explain.
Is the LDS christ the spirit brother of satan/lucifer?
Is the LDS god an exalted man?
How many gods are there, TOTAL, not just the one we deal with but any and all gods?
chords7 3 years ago
chords -- What do you mean by "most correct"? I believe that the Book of Mormon was translated by the hand of God and therefore has less translation mistakes.
In response to your questions regarding the nature of God. We believe in God, the eternal father, in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. We believe that God and Jesus Christ are two seperate beings. That God created all things and Jesus is His Son. God created His Son and Satan and you.
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
Scottsdale
Less translation mistakes? Does that include the near 4000 minor and major changes or do we disregard those?
most correct? Supposedly the BofM is the most correct book on earth and I can get nearer to god by its precepts than by any other book.
Are any of these precepts not found in the Bible?
Yes but
is the LDS christ the spirit brother of satan?
Was the LDS god once a man and now an exalted man who is god?
chords7 3 years ago
chords- You merely "parrot" anti-Mormon attacks. Do you expect me to believe that you compared the current and first edition BofM and found 4000 mistakes? You already admitted that you have not read the BofM in full.
Further, there have been NO major changes to the BofM. The only changes made have been the result of typographical and grammatical errors.
Exactly! The BofM and Bible compliment each other.
Why do you try to spin LDS doctrine with this Satan brother thing?
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
If it were translated by the power of God and the letters would NOT disappear until it was translated exactly right and it is actually the MOST correct book on earth at the time of the initial printing, WHY would there need to be even minor changes?
Studies have been done that have actually counted the changes, almost 4,000
Spin what about satans brother thing?
Does the LDS teach the Christ and satan are spirit brothers? YES OR NO
The Christian Christ created satan
chords7 3 years ago
chords -- Will you please provide a source for these "studies." The only "studies" I have seen are in anti-Mormon pamphlets.
We teach that we are all spirit brothers and sisters. It may be deducted from this belief that Christ and satan are brothers, which is exactly what you have done.
The Christian Christ did NOT create Satan. That is ridiculous. I have read the Bible several times and have never read that. What bible do you read?
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
"antimormon" pamphlets as you call them give references for the comments so you can easily check their validity The problem is they are labeled antimormon so you will not even look at the reference to see if the people giving the quotes are truly against YOU or just trying to show the truth
You dismiss anything they say because of one emotive word that is spread to keep you from the truth
Before I answer your comment of Christ creating satan
Is sstan a created cherub angel?
chords7 3 years ago
chords -- Thank you for admitting that you use anti-mormon literature. It explains a lot.
If you want to learn the truth about Mormons, ask a Mormon.
I'm not sure I know what you mean by "cherub angel"? What do the scriptures say?
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago
scottsdale
Still using emotive mocking to attempt to discredit.
So are you saying that if I go to a site of someone who is not a mormon and he quotes (an exact quote) several LDS prophets and says look at these quotes and compare those to these Biblical quotes, that those quotes are antimormon?
If it is the exact quote, why is it antimormon?
If it has the reference that can be verified, what is wrong with it?
Mormons dont answer with truth, they answer with what they have been told
chords7 3 years ago
chords -- It is anti-Mormon if it attacks the faith, doctrine, or history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
The problem is when you fail to verify the reference.
I answer with what I have learned for myself; not what I have been told. We do not have classes on how to answer anti-mormon attacks. Do you have classes on how to approach Mormons and what to say? (I will assume yes, having visited SBC churches before.)
ScottsdaleStylee 3 years ago