why didn't this & the so-called "Cries & Whispers" (which to ME has always been "Mesh", heh) make it to the actual Movement album? Movement is so short as it is... I think i'm just gonna add these 2 tracks as well as the 1st 2 tracks on NO - Substance (disc 2) to my Movement playlist ;-)
When it came to organisation Factory Records were a shambles. Unless any of the member's of New Order can remember, the reasoning for all of this will have probably have only been known by the late, great Tony Wilson. A shame he didn't do a business management course before forming Factory Records...but things just weren't done like that back then. Joy Division's contract was supposedly written on a beer mat in a pub with Tony Wilsons blood. Nobody had a pen.
I believe the two tracks you would have liked to have been included on 'Movement' were recorded a few months after the albums release. CLOSER to 1982 if you'll excuse the pun.
Hope and desire the antique sea Hopes and fears are All we ever see We made a contract In a field of snow A single release now And he's saying Out of the woods and trees Across the rain From out of the nighttime Somebody screams
He's on his way somewhere All like he's been nowhere I don't know
It infuriates me no end that they didn't pursue this tough, ethereal direction! it was left to eighteen million other bands to pick up the slack of what they could have done, which they abandoned for the club pop bilge that NO band should EVER have done.
I feel the same way. But after losing Ian Curtis and producing the incredible quantity of material they did with Joy Division, I simply think they needed to go in another direction. And remember it wasn't "club pop bilge" at the time, it was completely original. New Order have been copied so much it now sounds like that.
It's worth underscoring the influence of their then Producer, Martin Hannett. After Marty walked out and subsequently sued Factory, New Order became their own production outfit. Hence the change in musical stylings.
The song that's around 3:00 (this one, correctly) is Mesh. The one that's around 3:25 is Cries and Whispers. They were swapped on Substance and have been screwed up for so long that even the band doesn't remember which is which anymore, with Stephen Morris even saying no song called Mesh exists.
Well I wouldn't put much faith in anything any of New Order says nowadays, they've all disappeared up their own backsides. But what I do know is this is a bloody good song, whatever it's called !
Wow, this is one of the few NO songs I had left to hear... and they will never cease to amaze me to no end.. G E N I O U S E S! ! So the 'Substance' one is "Cries & Whispers"? Amazing....
wow, i've never even heard this song... i just found out about the whole mislabeling between the Substance "Mesh" & "Cries & Whispers"??? how annoying... oh well, you can't go wrong with New Order... they WERE before their time!!!
Ha! Very nearly 30 years old and still as fresh as a daisy. That's the great thing about bands like New Order - the music never sounds 'of its time' because it never was 'of its time' - it was always way beyond that....
Or "Everything's Gone Green"? It's from my old vinyl 12" single/EP, and Joy Division, Factory Records, New Order, and whoever produced this (all it says is "FBN") where notorious for getting their labels mixed up. So you could well be right !
"Cries and Whispers" start off with, "Below the surface ..." When Retro came out, there was an interview with Stephen Morris, who said that it was wrong on Substance but that the tracklist was corrected for Retro.
On the 2008 rerelease of Movement they are titled wrong again.
Well there was a bit of an overlap. When Ian Curtis died, there were some half-finished songs that the reformed New Order finished off from Joy Division material. That's why so much of the early New Order stuff sounds like Joy Division.
it seems the "NEW" order sounds not really new because the record is from 1981! I've only one of them in my favorites but anyway thx for the publication
totally getting hints of the song Warsaw. Ha ha. Both songs are amazing
unfamous13 2 months ago
For me one of the best tracks of NO.
ronaldvanderkleij 2 months ago
I love the hiss of vinyl at the start
Mancheguache 6 months ago
why didn't this & the so-called "Cries & Whispers" (which to ME has always been "Mesh", heh) make it to the actual Movement album? Movement is so short as it is... I think i'm just gonna add these 2 tracks as well as the 1st 2 tracks on NO - Substance (disc 2) to my Movement playlist ;-)
pessimystica 8 months ago
@pessimystica
When it came to organisation Factory Records were a shambles. Unless any of the member's of New Order can remember, the reasoning for all of this will have probably have only been known by the late, great Tony Wilson. A shame he didn't do a business management course before forming Factory Records...but things just weren't done like that back then. Joy Division's contract was supposedly written on a beer mat in a pub with Tony Wilsons blood. Nobody had a pen.
roddy76to86 8 months ago
@pessimystica
I believe the two tracks you would have liked to have been included on 'Movement' were recorded a few months after the albums release. CLOSER to 1982 if you'll excuse the pun.
g4alien 3 months ago
Hope and desire the antique sea Hopes and fears are All we ever see We made a contract In a field of snow A single release now And he's saying Out of the woods and trees Across the rain From out of the nighttime Somebody screams
He's on his way somewhere All like he's been nowhere I don't know
Nobody knows
Mancheguache 8 months ago
It infuriates me no end that they didn't pursue this tough, ethereal direction! it was left to eighteen million other bands to pick up the slack of what they could have done, which they abandoned for the club pop bilge that NO band should EVER have done.
litlgrey 9 months ago
@litlgrey
I feel the same way. But after losing Ian Curtis and producing the incredible quantity of material they did with Joy Division, I simply think they needed to go in another direction. And remember it wasn't "club pop bilge" at the time, it was completely original. New Order have been copied so much it now sounds like that.
roddy76to86 9 months ago 3
@roddy76to86
It's worth underscoring the influence of their then Producer, Martin Hannett. After Marty walked out and subsequently sued Factory, New Order became their own production outfit. Hence the change in musical stylings.
g4alien 3 months ago
check discogs, it says this
Cat# is found on B-side label only.
Rear sleeve erroneously mentions track B1 as Mesh and track B2 as Cries And Whispers.
same thing with the cd single release of this
liquidxxd 10 months ago
@liquidxxd
I've given up on this long ago.
roddy76to86 10 months ago
The song that's around 3:00 (this one, correctly) is Mesh. The one that's around 3:25 is Cries and Whispers. They were swapped on Substance and have been screwed up for so long that even the band doesn't remember which is which anymore, with Stephen Morris even saying no song called Mesh exists.
nickca420 11 months ago
@nickca420
Well I wouldn't put much faith in anything any of New Order says nowadays, they've all disappeared up their own backsides. But what I do know is this is a bloody good song, whatever it's called !
roddy76to86 11 months ago
But this is Cries and Whispers, at least according to the 12" that I have in my hand and that is playing on my tables right now...
TENSE2000 1 year ago
@TENSE2000
Groan...there's been so much confusion over this (see other comments) I'm not sure what it is. But it's good, that's the main thing !
roddy76to86 1 year ago
@roddy76to86
Yea a screw up by record company or something i read somewere
DjSabre07 11 months ago
@DjSabre07
Factory Records. They where a great small independant record company, but not very organised !
roddy76to86 11 months ago
@TENSE2000 This actually is Mesh...The B-sides of Everything's Gone Green were mislabeled on 12" back in '81.
RotoPlasmX 1 year ago
Oh I had no idea there was a woman in the band at the time.
Shows how much I think I know lol.
WoodRatGirl 1 year ago
Wow, this is one of the few NO songs I had left to hear... and they will never cease to amaze me to no end.. G E N I O U S E S! ! So the 'Substance' one is "Cries & Whispers"? Amazing....
ChangoMaula 1 year ago 2
Still holds up today....Mesh is just about turning the corner from JD to NO.
noveltyme 1 year ago
drumming's so closer. love this sound
CloudesleyShovel 1 year ago
wow. wow. i dont think ive heard this song since...hmmmm...'87ish
long time missed. now youve got me started...gotta dig through the
crates, under the dark steps, in the dusty basement, next to the fire
breathing whirring furnace
FasterThanSoup 1 year ago
@FasterThanSoup
It's a dirty job, but someone's got to to do it...
roddy76to86 1 year ago
What is it with this early New Order stuff that I can feel so happy about being so depressed
bradmorris67 1 year ago 2
1 2 3 4 is hurt the b side of temptation
ianbond68 1 year ago
wow, i've never even heard this song... i just found out about the whole mislabeling between the Substance "Mesh" & "Cries & Whispers"??? how annoying... oh well, you can't go wrong with New Order... they WERE before their time!!!
pessimystica 2 years ago
gawd i love these songs but cant remember the titles - wots the one that starts 1 2 3 4 - anyone recall ?
pagglejamia 2 years ago
that would be "Hurt"
canada7167 2 years ago
@canada7167 thanks
pagglejamia 2 years ago
I really dislike NO, but this track is really rather good indeed
filtro6 2 years ago
There's still some Joy Division influence in it, which is probably the reason.
roddy76to86 2 years ago
@filtro6 why wots wrong wiv new order amigo
boardy777777 1 year ago
Ha! Very nearly 30 years old and still as fresh as a daisy. That's the great thing about bands like New Order - the music never sounds 'of its time' because it never was 'of its time' - it was always way beyond that....
Eightball69 2 years ago 12
Definitely 'Mesh', there was a labelling error on FEP313 etc... I would go as far to declare this as my favourite New Order tune!
MrBillburroughs 2 years ago
manchester city !! forever ,not jusd city new order forever !!!! fr om a mancunian patriot !!
boardy777777 2 years ago
I thought they were from Salford ?!
roddy76to86 2 years ago
Definately 'Mesh'.
boosh1967 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Holy fuck, love this song so much.
youarenowreadingthis 2 years ago
Gotta be one of my favorite New Order songs. Instrumentation sounds so much like Joy Division era.
youarenowreadingthis 2 years ago
mesh.... or cries and whispers???
technique88 2 years ago
Or "Everything's Gone Green"? It's from my old vinyl 12" single/EP, and Joy Division, Factory Records, New Order, and whoever produced this (all it says is "FBN") where notorious for getting their labels mixed up. So you could well be right !
But who cares, it's a great song !
roddy76to86 2 years ago
you´re right! is a great song
the name doesn't care at all
technique88 2 years ago
FBN is Factory Benelux.
fluXXXion 2 years ago
Well at least that's cleared that up !
roddy76to86 2 years ago
mesh
Wedge8000 2 years ago
You're right it's "cries & whispers" not "mesh".
igor644cluj 2 years ago
Comment removed
fluXXXion 2 years ago
To be honest I'm so confused over this issue I'm past caring. But whatever this song is called, it's good !
roddy76to86 2 years ago
No, it's "Mesh"!
"Cries and Whispers" start off with, "Below the surface ..." When Retro came out, there was an interview with Stephen Morris, who said that it was wrong on Substance but that the tracklist was corrected for Retro.
On the 2008 rerelease of Movement they are titled wrong again.
fluXXXion 2 years ago
More confusion !
roddy76to86 2 years ago
great track...hints of joy division in the backround.........its mint!and stands the test of time!
glynnboo71 2 years ago 6
Well there was a bit of an overlap. When Ian Curtis died, there were some half-finished songs that the reformed New Order finished off from Joy Division material. That's why so much of the early New Order stuff sounds like Joy Division.
roddy76to86 2 years ago
Interestingly bizarre, 5 stars!
Aqualung71 2 years ago
Thank you. New Order have certainly been one of the most inventive bands over the years, even if some of the songs have been "lemons"!
roddy76to86 2 years ago
it seems the "NEW" order sounds not really new because the record is from 1981! I've only one of them in my favorites but anyway thx for the publication
flaming0moe 2 years ago