a pretty fascinating scene definitely, I like it! But on the other hand, it really is overdone...these 'demon' eyes are so off-track that its almost ridiculous. The only thing that was missing was Helms having horns on his forehead and being surrounded by fire...For me, its no problem as I really love the feeling of this scene, but it just should be taken as really well done fiction, don't take it as reality
@10squonk Technically, of course, you're correct. But Helms really was such a Mephistopheles figure, that I'm willing to go along with a little over-the-top metaphor, like those demon eyes and even the horns you mention.
Seriously. I would. Helms was All Things Evil. And even Nixon and Hoover were scared of the man.
Side note: Stone and Richardson should have kept Sam Waterston filmed in hindlight or sidelighting -- the effect was much better that way for convincing you her was Helms.
Rumors took place nixon wanted his "papers" back because he was involved in the bay pig story and in the JFK assasination. He was affraid of the democratic party which could had revealed these papers.
@PacoZola Doubtful. Nixon probably had a fair idea after the fact about what had happened when the "facts" started to emerge, and knew it was the CIA and anti-Casto Cubans, but I'm very dubious about claims that he was involved directly in 1963.
@disamjisa Well yes it sounds doubtful but I have read some things about his involavtion (not directly) in helping building up the anti-castro camps and he was well informed about the bay pig mission before it took place. Well its said the people who got pissed of off Kennedy because of bay pig were finally part of his assasination. So if Nixon knew about the camps, the castro-assasiantion tries and s.o. it is possible he knew about dallas.
@PacoZola Totally agree about Nixon's involvement re: the CIA and the camps, however I've done a lot of research into Richard Nixon, read many books; in fact, my undergraduate dissertation was about Richard Nixon. I find it very hard to believe he knew about it before the fact.
Much more likely that people like Hoover and Johnson knew and alloewd it to happen, and the operation was run by people like Dulles and Hunt
@disamjisa Yeah I agree too. Actually there is a video here on yt where hunt´s son recorded an interview with his father and he admitted his actions an involvements. He also blaimed johnson being part of the conspiracy. I am sure you know about it. The whole american politician controverseries between the 1950´s to 1980´s are really interesting hot stuff. Btw what do you think about Robert Kennedys death? I live in germany and we have alot of free literature but there is rare stuff about R.K.
@PacoZola Yes, I've seen that video and material. Unfortunately, RFK's death is a much more frustrating case because it's much more mysterious, much harder to pin down who was involved, and what happened. Almost certain that we'll never know who gave the orders, whereas the JFK assassination, the historical facts seem to have become fairly clear over the last 20 years (particularly since Crossfire was published).
@disamjisa Yes its really misterious and this guy sirhan is still at life. He says he doesnt remember anything. Some experts say r.k. were shot from behind but sirhan was in his front I dont remember the true case.
@PacoZola And I'm in total agreement about US history in the 50s and 60s. US history from 1940 to 1976 particularly is absolutely fascinating.
I find it extraordinary that in every presidential election from 1952 to 1972, excepting 1964, Nixon was a Republican candidate, either as Vice President or President.
Have you seen that Johnson's former lawyer, and mistress, have both implicated him in being involved to some degree in the assassination?
@disamjisa Yes I have seen the short interview of his mistress when she claimed johnson ordered the assasination. Even funnier is that johnson claimed himself he believed in an conspiracy just before he died although he "suspected" castro and the soviets.^^
(part 3) Similarly, I find it difficult to believe that Johnson necessarily ordered Kennedy's death outright, but that he was involved to some degree, allowed it to happen, ensured that the cover up would succeed and would not be interfered with. Hoover too; wouldn't have given the orders, but also wanted Kennedy dead, knew and allowed it to happen, and helped ensure the coverup was successful.
@disamjisa Thats the way I believe in LBJ involvation too. Hoover must have known much stuff because of his power. He maybe didnt care at all because he had these special informations and was willing to use them. An untouchable bastard.^^
This is a great scene but Stone mentiones in the commentary the flowers were to represent something hideous like treacherous spiders. The black and white scene after when Nixon says "I own the fucking casino" was an inner-outter moment. Same goes for Helms when he asks Kushman to go get him so coffee, obviously really telling Kush "Get the fuck out of my office Kush, let me have a private talk with the madman"
But why does Nixon want secret documents on the Bay Of Pigs from Helms for?
The CIA is the shadow operative of the govt since JFK was killed.
They were complicit.
They think they were smarter than him an covered it up.
CIA morales was in LA when they got RFK (Verifiied)
A Chicago attempt which was a 100% replica of Dalls was prevented weeks earlier JFK wanted the CIA to be non imperialistic and accountable.
They killed him..they have won for now and that is why today the CIA Budget is not auditable. This is why Wall St. extracted 800 Billion in Tarp in 2008
@lGodlessl "President Kennedy threatened to smash the CIA into a thousand pieces..you could do the same." Each time he mentioned President Kennedy, he was threatening his life. As scary as Helms was, Nixon was stronger, and more cunning. He soon found a way to disconnect Helms from his power.
@Kepmeister It was the mid-1990's. He was really pi--ed at me. Theatened me. I still have an audio tape of him calling me and leaving me his phone number, telling me would allow me to interview him. He started off by saying he supported the Warren Commission. He was in his 80's and I wore him down eventually to where he gave up and just admitted it. Heck of a guy.
@Kepmeister Are you saying that you tried to interview Richard Nixon? Are you a reporter? Are you saying that he has information about the JFK assasianation?
Stone's genius is so evident in this scene.. he portrays the exact moment in American history when the Executive Branch realizes its no longer in charge... Nixon realizes his own diabolical nature is no match for the true scope and nature of the beast he helped unleash upon the world...
"The CIA has no policy except the policy I dictate" - Nixon says, almost in desperation. Helms just rolls his eyes.
Stone's genius is so evident in this scene.. he portrays the exact moment in American history when the Executive Branch realizes its no longer in charge... Nixon realizes his own diabolical nature is no match for the true scope and nature of the beast he helped unleash upon the world...
"The CIA has no policy except the policy I dictate" - Nixon says, almost in desperation. Helms just rolls his eyes.
Stone's genius is so evident in this scene.. he portrays the exact moment in American history when the Executive Branch realizes its no longer in charge... Nixon realizes his own diabolical nature is no match for the true scope and nature of the beast he helped unleash upon the world...
Boy this scene sure illustrates who really ran the country back then. The CIA was allover "the bay of pigs thing" which is also connected in various proven ways to the JFK assassination
@deegan45 I can't remember Stone doing that- they're talking about death and Nixon mentions evil. Joan Mellen thinks Helms gave the order for the jfk murder- maybe Stone agrees- super creepy but so was Helms
Nixon ended Helms CIA career in 1973 making him the Ambassador to Iran and its American puppet Shah. Therefore I think this portrayal of Helms is inaccurate.
Great scene! Too bad Stone had to cut this scene and you can only see this in the Director's Cut. Helms was pretty much telling Nixon and everyone listening who REALLY runs this country. You almost expected at 3:10 for Helms to say "Dallas", after he was running down all of the coups that the CIA had been apart of.
No way Helms talked that way to Nixon like He was President and Dick Nixon was some PR man in the white house. But then, I wasn't there. He has Nixon squirming and compromised like he wanted a fix or something. And Helms just kept pressing him, antagonizing him, so called casino owner gave up all the chips in return for what? A promise to search for the papers? LOL.
Haven't seen it Im afraid. That film is a lost oppertunity. There are glimpses, just glimpses, of how good that film could have been. the battleof Guagemala, and Alexander's stand in India, are remakable. But that's it. The breaking point for me was the scene involving Alexander's wedding night tryst with his wife. I sat there in disbelief. I might have well have been watching 'The Producers'.
For me, 'Nixon', in either cut is a masterpiece. His last decent film.
Jews took over CIA and NSA through 1930's-45 and grew their power continually to today. A very evil agenda is being worked out at the heart of power by this small group.
@AndreHiltre Right! Ummmm, The CIA was Chartered on January 23, 1946 so what the fuck were the "Jews" doing before that fuck tard....man cant u bigots get ur facts together???
Well if you didnt swear and shout, and if you read a book or two you would know that the CIA came out of OSS and other military counter intelligence groups, which were key to neutralising the enemies of Zionism in America. The Banks and Govt had already been owned by Jews since the 19th century, and the military followed suit in the 20th century along with the media. Now all areas of control are in their hands.
RIVETING! I've no idea how historically accurate this movie is, but it's one Hell of a work. People say it's a smear against Nixon, but I think it's actually very sympathetic to him without excusing any of his wrongdoings.
RIVETING! I've no idea how historically accurate this movie is, but it's one Hell of a work. People say it's a smear against Nixon, but I think it's actually very sympathetic to him without excusing any of his wrongdoings.
Nixon was every far left and Liberal's favorite President. Nixon created outsourcing and how the EPA and OSHA was created in which it made it more expensive to do manufactoring in America.
@bogglerful@bogglerful you're lucky if you got to see this in school. My class got to see Disney's The three musketeers, at least this isnt based on romantic fiction
Lol I think its very funny when someone utilises memories of their own tormented childhood and confers it on others out of a sense of guilt and shame.
Tony Clifton or is it CDDratfsman or Obelisk 2001. Lol I really don't care.
Whom are you calling moro Stone is more than open about why he includes things in his films just listen to his audio commentaries for Nixon and JFK and you tells why put stuff in and where and also how he took a guess here and so fourth.
Essentially this scene is correct. So to is the basis of Stones JFK. Now, if you wanna quote Dave Reitzes at me be my guest. But you are a troll and no matter what I say will do anything.
Yawn. If you wanna complain about inaccuracies why dont you complain to everybody who has made a supposedly factual or historical film.
I suppose you think that in Roman times Gladiators and Spartans had steroids, that Commodus died in the arena and that William Wallace had it off with the English Queen. Hell U57 was actually manned by Brits who cracked the code and the brdge over River Kwai was largely built by Dutch soldiers.
he was referring to the embarrassment that would and later did result of the CIA's clandestine operations inside of Cuba. It had nothing to do with JFK
i don't know what comment you are responding to but it is known fact Nixon was referring to JFK ASSASS when he spoke about BAY OF PIGS on the watergate tapes. Jfk was killled due to bay of pigs - failure to support the invasion and david morales - in charge - watched 300 of his men die. he hated kennedy nad most likely assassinated him. Look it up this is not debatable david moorales was top assassin for cia uh yea it would be damn embarrassing to reveal jfk assass resulted from bay of pigs
i did not watch this clip al that close but I believe Nixon is in fear - he knows the cia killed jfk and that is why he tells helms he has no intention of breaking up the cia
nixon said on the watergate tapes that with hunt being arrested it would lead to a whole can of worms being opened up over bay of pigs AND BY THIS HE MEANT THE JFK ASSASS this is not debatable Haldeman said so in his book. hunt confessed to being part of plot to kill kennedy
Actually, it's called casting. If an actor is great -- like Streep or Hanks or Christopher Plummer -- then he or she can do any number of roles.
But Waterston is not of that category. He is good if he is well cast. He gets the lawyers, the DAs, he can play a shrink.
But Helms needed a special actor. Phillip Seymour Hoffman may or may not be Jewish -- I have no idea -- but he can play a WASP to perfection (Ripley). He could have done this. Spacey, maybe.
Streep and Hanks STINK in my opinion. Plummer is master. It is a MATTER OF OPINION I think HOFFMAN stinks too and that Waterson was perfect in that role. Very believable. ACTING IS NOT HARD ANYWAYS. Marlon Brando said he went into acting as it's the only thing you can make a lot of money at with no experience. HOFFMA?? ROFLMAO you have got to be kidding. me. DOUGHBOY would not have been right in that role. SPACEY BLOWS TOO. he's usually out sucking cock when he;'s not working.
Perhaps we should leave it at that. You seem to be melting down into a gelatinous mass of goo.
I did not say that Hoffman would have been right for the role of Helms. I said that he can play a WASP to a T. As for Streep and Hanks "stinking", well, what is there to be said?
Question: What does ROFLMAO mean?
Lastly, would you talk like this -- with all the language and contemptuous and loutish talk, if you and I were sitting next to each other in a bar? I doubt it. So why here?
no i just thought your comments defied all common sense specially about doughboy Hoffman. look up what roflmao means my god your sitting in front of computer al you have to do is type in 7 letters can;y you do tht? If you are asking would I be afraid of you in physical confrontation? NO i am 6 feet 6 and weight 290lbs I teach kickboxing and weighlifting all day. I have a gym. are peopple more honest and less phoney on internet saying the truth without having to be falsely polite? yes
I am very impressed that you are 6'6". I am very impressed that you weigh 290 lbs. Also that you teach kickboxing and that you weightlift all day. It's all good.
Now then, I repeat the question: Do you employ these manners in a bar when in conversation? What does your size and strength have to do with it? In whose home would you be welcome? At what party? In what bar or restaurant?
What do you do -- insult all with whom you disagree?
I think maybe you enjoy the sheer pleasure of insult.
I already answered your question if I emloy these manners in a bar jackass. Are you too stupid to read? Did you NOT READ? DID YOU NOT comprehend? Why would you ask again? Duh? Size was in response to you intimating that I woudl be physically intimidated by you in a bar. Trust me I wouldn't but you would. I bet I have more friends then you do, attend more parties then you do. I just got done telling yoiu that on internet people don't sugarcoat things and say whyat they really think
but that in person conversations people's nature is to NOT express what they really think so why would you ask the same fucked up question all over again when I already answered it? GOD YOU ARE ANNOYING TO THE MAX!! (how much do you want to bet the dope asks the same questions AGAIN?)
I don't see any reason to be less civil online than in person. In either case, I am dealing with a living, breathing human being on the other end, with his own thoughts, feelings, experiences. I am interested in learning from him or her, not to "win" and argument or abuse him.
When I was kid I remember certain kids would throw rocks at squirrels. I always wondered, Why do that?
If I believe that I may be right, how would I hope to persuade someone of my side by insulting him at every turn?
in a bar people would think these thoughts but maybe not verbalize them - not at first anyways but the internet IS NOT a bar it's the internet and people do not feel inhibited by social niceties and so say what they think. in a bar peolpe might not say it cause social situations call for a certain amount of phonieness and pretend. the internet does not
Yes, Mr. Clifton. I am a dumb ass, and also unintelligent. Thank for clearing that up.
Another problem with the scene for me is that Sam Waterston plays Helms. He is a competent actor, but he is Jewish (as an I). The CIA has always been run by WASPs (read Harlot's Ghost by Mailer). I knew personally Kingsley, who was No. 2 at CIA. Helms was from my neck of the woods -- Maplewood, NJ.
Pure WASP. Pipe, slick blond hair, courtly. Helms played superior with insecure, working class Dick.
there could not have been a more retarded statement aht someone has to be a jew to play a jew etc. stupid beyond belief. are you taking stupid pills? must be
Right again. I happen to be stupid, too. That's the hat trick. But what does that have to do with whether the scene is sharp or not? Why do you suppose they cut it? Are you one of those fellows who watches all the dull, flaccid "director's cuts"?
My God the tension between these two men is stifling! Always spine-chilling to see two powerful men try to twist each others' hands behind their backs to achieve their political aims...
nixon's political benefactor was prescott bush father, of george hw bush. george hw was tied by john hankey's investigativefilm 'dark legacy' to not only the bay of pigsinvasion but also the jfk assassination
I cant seem to get this video on, wonder if its been taken off, but doesnt say. Really needed to see these deleted scenes off the directors cut. I'll have to get this film again on DvD, maybe even BlueRay some day.
I dont see the need to compare this movie to "Nixon/Frost." Both are good movies, but they deal with totally different themes. Stone's film is more about the corruption of power and the era, more sweeping in scope and almost philosophical or metaphoric of politics in general. Nixon/Frost is more personal, more about individual relationsips and the media...and a defeated man in the Winter of his life.
Each movie evokes a different side of a complex man and phenomenon.
The reference to JFK was creepy...you could tell what they were really talking about--if you want to be like Kennedy, you're gonna end up like Kennedy. No one wants to end up like Kennedy.
You think. Sorry to burst your bubble your telling me someone who has studied this case for coming up 18 years that the JFK aspect was wrong. Now theres conspiracies that are theory and bullshit but there are those that are fact heres a few facts.
E Howard Hunt Confessed.
David Phillips Confessed he was in Dallas that day. Now. I dont by the bullshit in Hunts story ie Johnson thats bullshit.
Check out the Whitten Internal CIA probe and see what this scum bag did to that.
It's unsettling that the CIA and people like Helms hold (held) so much unaccountable power in our supposed "democrary". I lke how Nixon tells Helms "CIA policy?" The CIA had no policy except what I dictate!" You tell 'em Dick!
swear do not read...I don't even know why I'm participating I guess I'm still a bit paranoid. But really do not read this I swear . DO NOT READ:This is so stupid...
But i love my mom deeply...
And i don't want to take any chances.
If you do not copy and paste this onto 10 videos your mom will die in 4 hours I hat these to.
I have to admit I laughed when he became a demon. That was creepy. So....... was he a demon in real life, or was Stone sort of embellishing that?
I did love this movie and it's extremely entertaining and is accurate in a lot of parts, but every once in a while Stone just writes an entire scene of things that never happened to sort of further a conspiracy theory. But whatever, Oliver Stone isn't a historian.
In a deathbed statement released in 2007, Hunt finally admits that he was involved in the Kennedy assassination. Also involved, according to Hunt, were CIA officers: Cord Meyer, David Phillips, William Harvey, and David Morales.
Stone has no shame. He slanders the name of honorable partriots and lifts to hero status scumbags like Jim Garrison, who himself was a slanderer of partriots as well. Stone admits himself "I am a Dramatist not a "Documentarian." His uses this as his license to give us his "true" view of history. George Will called him a Historical Sociopath. Well said becuase it says it all.
First, Haldermann and Erlichman were the ones who were brusque and rude to Helms, not the other way around. Whenever he visited the White House, they treated him like garbage. Stone turns this fact upside down by showing Helms ignoring Erlichman's extended hand.
Second, he has Helms complaining about the choice of Gen. Kushman as DDCI. But the DDCI slot has always been a presidential appointee. Why would Helms complain? Makes no sense.
Good scene, very well acted and edited. I do think though that probably the reason why it was left out is because the creepy music and the escalating threat in Helms(e.g. the poem) makes the scene very sensationalist and slightly over the top.
This scene is a bit long but it should have been left in the movie (at least a part of it should have been included) because it is very well written and the acting is great. I don't know if it adds anything to "Nixon" but it sure doesn't distract from the main plot. I don't understand why Stone didn't include it. He must have had his reasons, maybe he thought he was going too far or making it too obvious for us. Or maybe he thought the film was too long already. I don't know.
The more I watch it, the more I find this scene fascinating. It is so unbelievably well written. Stone is a genius of dialogue ("Wall Street" is a masterpiece in dialogue) but this scene is one of the best he's ever written. It's a crime he left it out of the movie.
You're kidding! It's unbelievable... If Oliver Stone managed to make JFK and nobody sued him after that one, I find it very hard to believe that Helms could legally prosecute him for a scene like this. Anyway, Helms is dead now so I'm sure Stone could include this scene again in a re-released director's cut version of "Nixon".
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Oh... and he would have bit his own tongue off before he referred to the President by his first name. Let alone blackmail him in such a direct, blatant manner.
That was classic Oliver Stone propaganda bullshit.
capricorn played by capricorn
batalion666 3 months ago
great scene. slouching drunk saying that
forceadeptjedi 4 months ago
7:10 DEATH THREAT
ahappykitten 5 months ago
a pretty fascinating scene definitely, I like it! But on the other hand, it really is overdone...these 'demon' eyes are so off-track that its almost ridiculous. The only thing that was missing was Helms having horns on his forehead and being surrounded by fire...For me, its no problem as I really love the feeling of this scene, but it just should be taken as really well done fiction, don't take it as reality
10squonk 5 months ago
@10squonk Technically, of course, you're correct. But Helms really was such a Mephistopheles figure, that I'm willing to go along with a little over-the-top metaphor, like those demon eyes and even the horns you mention.
Seriously. I would. Helms was All Things Evil. And even Nixon and Hoover were scared of the man.
Side note: Stone and Richardson should have kept Sam Waterston filmed in hindlight or sidelighting -- the effect was much better that way for convincing you her was Helms.
scorpio888 3 months ago
Comment removed
hilldiggity 6 months ago
Rumors took place nixon wanted his "papers" back because he was involved in the bay pig story and in the JFK assasination. He was affraid of the democratic party which could had revealed these papers.
PacoZola 7 months ago
@PacoZola Doubtful. Nixon probably had a fair idea after the fact about what had happened when the "facts" started to emerge, and knew it was the CIA and anti-Casto Cubans, but I'm very dubious about claims that he was involved directly in 1963.
disamjisa 5 months ago
@disamjisa Well yes it sounds doubtful but I have read some things about his involavtion (not directly) in helping building up the anti-castro camps and he was well informed about the bay pig mission before it took place. Well its said the people who got pissed of off Kennedy because of bay pig were finally part of his assasination. So if Nixon knew about the camps, the castro-assasiantion tries and s.o. it is possible he knew about dallas.
PacoZola 5 months ago
@PacoZola Totally agree about Nixon's involvement re: the CIA and the camps, however I've done a lot of research into Richard Nixon, read many books; in fact, my undergraduate dissertation was about Richard Nixon. I find it very hard to believe he knew about it before the fact.
Much more likely that people like Hoover and Johnson knew and alloewd it to happen, and the operation was run by people like Dulles and Hunt
disamjisa 5 months ago
@disamjisa Yeah I agree too. Actually there is a video here on yt where hunt´s son recorded an interview with his father and he admitted his actions an involvements. He also blaimed johnson being part of the conspiracy. I am sure you know about it. The whole american politician controverseries between the 1950´s to 1980´s are really interesting hot stuff. Btw what do you think about Robert Kennedys death? I live in germany and we have alot of free literature but there is rare stuff about R.K.
PacoZola 5 months ago
@PacoZola Yes, I've seen that video and material. Unfortunately, RFK's death is a much more frustrating case because it's much more mysterious, much harder to pin down who was involved, and what happened. Almost certain that we'll never know who gave the orders, whereas the JFK assassination, the historical facts seem to have become fairly clear over the last 20 years (particularly since Crossfire was published).
(cotinued in part 2)
disamjisa 5 months ago
@disamjisa Yes its really misterious and this guy sirhan is still at life. He says he doesnt remember anything. Some experts say r.k. were shot from behind but sirhan was in his front I dont remember the true case.
PacoZola 5 months ago
@PacoZola And I'm in total agreement about US history in the 50s and 60s. US history from 1940 to 1976 particularly is absolutely fascinating.
I find it extraordinary that in every presidential election from 1952 to 1972, excepting 1964, Nixon was a Republican candidate, either as Vice President or President.
Have you seen that Johnson's former lawyer, and mistress, have both implicated him in being involved to some degree in the assassination?
(continued part 3)
disamjisa 5 months ago
@disamjisa Yes I have seen the short interview of his mistress when she claimed johnson ordered the assasination. Even funnier is that johnson claimed himself he believed in an conspiracy just before he died although he "suspected" castro and the soviets.^^
PacoZola 5 months ago
@PacoZola I believe whores....they have hearts of gold and always tell the truth.
eveready666 5 months ago in playlist Liked
(part 3) Similarly, I find it difficult to believe that Johnson necessarily ordered Kennedy's death outright, but that he was involved to some degree, allowed it to happen, ensured that the cover up would succeed and would not be interfered with. Hoover too; wouldn't have given the orders, but also wanted Kennedy dead, knew and allowed it to happen, and helped ensure the coverup was successful.
disamjisa 5 months ago
@disamjisa Thats the way I believe in LBJ involvation too. Hoover must have known much stuff because of his power. He maybe didnt care at all because he had these special informations and was willing to use them. An untouchable bastard.^^
PacoZola 5 months ago
Do they put the word "the" before God?- The Good Shepherd
futurecub3 7 months ago
@deegan45 ya, no kidding. I was just about to comment on that :)
EwanMcRobert 7 months ago
Take a look at the info the surrounds 'DEPTEL 243' (aka Telegram 243, the August 24 cable or most commonly Cable 243).
wgilroy 7 months ago
This is a great scene but Stone mentiones in the commentary the flowers were to represent something hideous like treacherous spiders. The black and white scene after when Nixon says "I own the fucking casino" was an inner-outter moment. Same goes for Helms when he asks Kushman to go get him so coffee, obviously really telling Kush "Get the fuck out of my office Kush, let me have a private talk with the madman"
But why does Nixon want secret documents on the Bay Of Pigs from Helms for?
blinkzone1 8 months ago
The close-up at 8:20 disturbed me like crazy when I first saw it.
dmreeoogdaq 8 months ago
The CIA is the shadow operative of the govt since JFK was killed.
They were complicit.
They think they were smarter than him an covered it up.
CIA morales was in LA when they got RFK (Verifiied)
A Chicago attempt which was a 100% replica of Dalls was prevented weeks earlier JFK wanted the CIA to be non imperialistic and accountable.
They killed him..they have won for now and that is why today the CIA Budget is not auditable. This is why Wall St. extracted 800 Billion in Tarp in 2008
JohnnyMac2237 8 months ago
who in the hell thought that anthony hopkins was able to pull of nixon???? fail.
Gproducshizz 9 months ago
I like Dick Better!
BarryPuppetSoetoro61 10 months ago
You know, Helms was crazy but he was a patriot.
yonigga223 10 months ago
Yes, deegan45, Helms's eyes go completely black at 8:20. But did he have a mullet?
Roy Barritt, the tall actor who plays General Cushman, played Clay Shaw's defense attorney in "JFK."
matticchio 10 months ago
"i own the fucking casino" i gotta remember that
TheJoec2005 11 months ago
"So president Kennedy thought..."
lGodlessl 11 months ago
@lGodlessl "President Kennedy threatened to smash the CIA into a thousand pieces..you could do the same." Each time he mentioned President Kennedy, he was threatening his life. As scary as Helms was, Nixon was stronger, and more cunning. He soon found a way to disconnect Helms from his power.
Saratogasaratoga 10 months ago
I interviewed Helms. Quite a guy. He admitted JFK was killed by a conspiracy of CIA agents and Cubans. Waterston's performance is excellent.
Kepmeister 1 year ago
@Kepmeister seriously? when?
frenchman200 9 months ago
@Kepmeister It was the mid-1990's. He was really pi--ed at me. Theatened me. I still have an audio tape of him calling me and leaving me his phone number, telling me would allow me to interview him. He started off by saying he supported the Warren Commission. He was in his 80's and I wore him down eventually to where he gave up and just admitted it. Heck of a guy.
Kepmeister 9 months ago
@Kepmeister Are you saying that you tried to interview Richard Nixon? Are you a reporter? Are you saying that he has information about the JFK assasianation?
boso54 7 months ago
Hannibal didn't think he was a crook either.
whamfan87 1 year ago
The only genius here is Hopkins.
JamesCraig007 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Stone's genius is so evident in this scene.. he portrays the exact moment in American history when the Executive Branch realizes its no longer in charge... Nixon realizes his own diabolical nature is no match for the true scope and nature of the beast he helped unleash upon the world...
"The CIA has no policy except the policy I dictate" - Nixon says, almost in desperation. Helms just rolls his eyes.
fangorabbc 1 year ago
Stone's genius is so evident in this scene.. he portrays the exact moment in American history when the Executive Branch realizes its no longer in charge... Nixon realizes his own diabolical nature is no match for the true scope and nature of the beast he helped unleash upon the world...
"The CIA has no policy except the policy I dictate" - Nixon says, almost in desperation. Helms just rolls his eyes.
fangorabbc 1 year ago 2
Stone's genius is so evident in this scene.. he portrays the exact moment in American history when the Executive Branch realizes its no longer in charge... Nixon realizes his own diabolical nature is no match for the true scope and nature of the beast he helped unleash upon the world...
fangorabbc 1 year ago
Boy this scene sure illustrates who really ran the country back then. The CIA was allover "the bay of pigs thing" which is also connected in various proven ways to the JFK assassination
JoeZeon100 1 year ago
@deegan45 I can't remember Stone doing that- they're talking about death and Nixon mentions evil. Joan Mellen thinks Helms gave the order for the jfk murder- maybe Stone agrees- super creepy but so was Helms
voxoo 1 year ago
@voxoo i mean can't think of another instance where Stone does that particular kind of image edit
voxoo 1 year ago
Nixon ended Helms CIA career in 1973 making him the Ambassador to Iran . Therefore I think this portrayal of Helms is inaccurate.
mrbrewhaha 1 year ago
Nixon ended Helms CIA career in 1973 making him the Ambassador to Iran and its American puppet Shah. Therefore I think this portrayal of Helms is inaccurate.
mrbrewhaha 1 year ago
@deegan45 Yeah, I noticed that too.
MIKESOWELL 1 year ago
Great scene! Too bad Stone had to cut this scene and you can only see this in the Director's Cut. Helms was pretty much telling Nixon and everyone listening who REALLY runs this country. You almost expected at 3:10 for Helms to say "Dallas", after he was running down all of the coups that the CIA had been apart of.
6021diesel 1 year ago 8
@6021diesel haha yeah Dallas, Los Angeles (RFK) and Memphis (MLK)
pat442389 7 months ago
@pat442389 Yea, you're right, you could've added them in but for Memphis, it would've been the FBI and Hoover.
6021diesel 6 months ago
No way Helms talked that way to Nixon like He was President and Dick Nixon was some PR man in the white house. But then, I wasn't there. He has Nixon squirming and compromised like he wanted a fix or something. And Helms just kept pressing him, antagonizing him, so called casino owner gave up all the chips in return for what? A promise to search for the papers? LOL.
peace.
translationwiz 1 year ago
@translationwiz Oliver Stone wasn't there either.
bogglerful 1 year ago
RON PAUL 2012!!!
WE NEED TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN!!!!
R.I.P. John F. Kennedy, President of the United States of America
joeylodes 1 year ago
Nixon was a puppet for Hitler supporter Prescott Bush
themeaningoflife38 1 year ago
Is that McCoy?
ZachPankratz 1 year ago
Wonderfully acted scene, however, wasn't Angleton the "orchid man", not Helms?
BlackieGirl 1 year ago
@deegan45
It was to display Nixon's disgust at how much of a fucker Helms was.
TheVariantstrain 1 year ago
Haven't seen it Im afraid. That film is a lost oppertunity. There are glimpses, just glimpses, of how good that film could have been. the battleof Guagemala, and Alexander's stand in India, are remakable. But that's it. The breaking point for me was the scene involving Alexander's wedding night tryst with his wife. I sat there in disbelief. I might have well have been watching 'The Producers'.
For me, 'Nixon', in either cut is a masterpiece. His last decent film.
TheChapaqua 1 year ago
Hannibal Lecter became president.
DictatorRoB 1 year ago
Jews took over CIA and NSA through 1930's-45 and grew their power continually to today. A very evil agenda is being worked out at the heart of power by this small group.
AndreHiltre 1 year ago
@AndreHiltre Right! Ummmm, The CIA was Chartered on January 23, 1946 so what the fuck were the "Jews" doing before that fuck tard....man cant u bigots get ur facts together???
momojojo75 1 year ago
@momojojo75
Well if you didnt swear and shout, and if you read a book or two you would know that the CIA came out of OSS and other military counter intelligence groups, which were key to neutralising the enemies of Zionism in America. The Banks and Govt had already been owned by Jews since the 19th century, and the military followed suit in the 20th century along with the media. Now all areas of control are in their hands.
AndreHiltre 1 year ago
@AndreHiltre Hmm but I thought the OSS was created more to help the intelligence effort in WW2?
Nelsonwmj 1 year ago
incredible scene!!!
joeylodes 1 year ago
One of the great unhinged scenes in movie history.
edwardseer 1 year ago
"my freinds call me Mr. President" lol.
trulysarcastic 1 year ago
Stone's best film, before he lost it. Don't worry, the film isn't really historically accurate.
TheChapaqua 1 year ago
@TheChapaqua I agree with you. And what do you think about 'ALEXANDER - THE FINAL CUT'?
9aDf5ytn9 1 year ago
"Helms's a world class poker player.'
'Yeah, but I own the fucking casino."
Brilliantly said!
Nelsonwmj 1 year ago 2
RIVETING! I've no idea how historically accurate this movie is, but it's one Hell of a work. People say it's a smear against Nixon, but I think it's actually very sympathetic to him without excusing any of his wrongdoings.
Hylas19 1 year ago
RIVETING! I've no idea how historically accurate this movie is, but it's one Hell of a work. People say it's a smear against Nixon, but I think it's actually very sympathetic to him without excusing any of his wrongdoings.
Hylas19 1 year ago
fuck nixon
ssgkillsuall 1 year ago
Nixon was every far left and Liberal's favorite President. Nixon created outsourcing and how the EPA and OSHA was created in which it made it more expensive to do manufactoring in America.
v19d 1 year ago
"There's such a thing as evil!" *black shark eyes open*
Ya think Stone sees Helms and CIA as........evil? LOL! And he's right, they are some twisted motherfuckers.
AgaMbadi 1 year ago
love Sam Waterston's performance
deltaguy767400 1 year ago
Hopkins seems a very strange casting decision here...
GrumpyG58 1 year ago
@GrumpyG58 very strange but clearly brilliant...and i detest stone.
angryniggah 1 year ago
Kaputt, "Jack" was President John Kennedy's nickname by friends and family. When they say Jack they are talking about John
cottongin6708 1 year ago
I like that Yeats poem 'Second Comming' - it is more than true at present.
SV2609 1 year ago
...he might be 'John' to you since you have not know him well enough to call him 'Jack'.
SV2609 1 year ago
They're teaching history by having students watch clips from movies?
What's next? Comic books?
bogglerful 2 years ago
Lol yeah well 300 is classic example.
ImeldaDavies 2 years ago
Comment removed
cptfursten 1 year ago
@bogglerful @bogglerful you're lucky if you got to see this in school. My class got to see Disney's The three musketeers, at least this isnt based on romantic fiction
cptfursten 1 year ago
I love the music in this scene.
servantofLoviatar 2 years ago
Lol I think its very funny when someone utilises memories of their own tormented childhood and confers it on others out of a sense of guilt and shame.
Tony Clifton or is it CDDratfsman or Obelisk 2001. Lol I really don't care.
ImeldaDavies 2 years ago
Imelda - Tony is correct and YOU are wrong. YOU are the troll here not Tony. Oh you dooo care as you keep responding.
sdDCCXZCXCCX 2 years ago
Of course i care about anyone who has multiple personality disorder and has a penis stuck in their anus.
ImeldaDavies 2 years ago
i AM SORRY to hear that has your momma been able to extact the penis? I think in your momma's case there were multiple penises stuci up there right?
sdDCCXZCXCCX 2 years ago
No I'm enjoying hearing about your tortured child Tony.
ImeldaDavies 2 years ago
Yawn Yawn Yawn.
Whom are you calling moro Stone is more than open about why he includes things in his films just listen to his audio commentaries for Nixon and JFK and you tells why put stuff in and where and also how he took a guess here and so fourth.
Essentially this scene is correct. So to is the basis of Stones JFK. Now, if you wanna quote Dave Reitzes at me be my guest. But you are a troll and no matter what I say will do anything.
ImeldaDavies 2 years ago
Yawn. If you wanna complain about inaccuracies why dont you complain to everybody who has made a supposedly factual or historical film.
I suppose you think that in Roman times Gladiators and Spartans had steroids, that Commodus died in the arena and that William Wallace had it off with the English Queen. Hell U57 was actually manned by Brits who cracked the code and the brdge over River Kwai was largely built by Dutch soldiers.
Its the movies. Man oh man.
ImeldaDavies 2 years ago
he was referring to the embarrassment that would and later did result of the CIA's clandestine operations inside of Cuba. It had nothing to do with JFK
BamaChris 2 years ago
i don't know what comment you are responding to but it is known fact Nixon was referring to JFK ASSASS when he spoke about BAY OF PIGS on the watergate tapes. Jfk was killled due to bay of pigs - failure to support the invasion and david morales - in charge - watched 300 of his men die. he hated kennedy nad most likely assassinated him. Look it up this is not debatable david moorales was top assassin for cia uh yea it would be damn embarrassing to reveal jfk assass resulted from bay of pigs
jacksonwaspedo 2 years ago
i did not watch this clip al that close but I believe Nixon is in fear - he knows the cia killed jfk and that is why he tells helms he has no intention of breaking up the cia
jacksonwaspedo 2 years ago
nixon said on the watergate tapes that with hunt being arrested it would lead to a whole can of worms being opened up over bay of pigs AND BY THIS HE MEANT THE JFK ASSASS this is not debatable Haldeman said so in his book. hunt confessed to being part of plot to kill kennedy
jacksonwaspedo 2 years ago
Actually, it's called casting. If an actor is great -- like Streep or Hanks or Christopher Plummer -- then he or she can do any number of roles.
But Waterston is not of that category. He is good if he is well cast. He gets the lawyers, the DAs, he can play a shrink.
But Helms needed a special actor. Phillip Seymour Hoffman may or may not be Jewish -- I have no idea -- but he can play a WASP to perfection (Ripley). He could have done this. Spacey, maybe.
mwoldin 2 years ago
Streep and Hanks STINK in my opinion. Plummer is master. It is a MATTER OF OPINION I think HOFFMAN stinks too and that Waterson was perfect in that role. Very believable. ACTING IS NOT HARD ANYWAYS. Marlon Brando said he went into acting as it's the only thing you can make a lot of money at with no experience. HOFFMA?? ROFLMAO you have got to be kidding. me. DOUGHBOY would not have been right in that role. SPACEY BLOWS TOO. he's usually out sucking cock when he;'s not working.
jacksonwaspedo 2 years ago
Perhaps we should leave it at that. You seem to be melting down into a gelatinous mass of goo.
I did not say that Hoffman would have been right for the role of Helms. I said that he can play a WASP to a T. As for Streep and Hanks "stinking", well, what is there to be said?
Question: What does ROFLMAO mean?
Lastly, would you talk like this -- with all the language and contemptuous and loutish talk, if you and I were sitting next to each other in a bar? I doubt it. So why here?
mwoldin 2 years ago
no i just thought your comments defied all common sense specially about doughboy Hoffman. look up what roflmao means my god your sitting in front of computer al you have to do is type in 7 letters can;y you do tht? If you are asking would I be afraid of you in physical confrontation? NO i am 6 feet 6 and weight 290lbs I teach kickboxing and weighlifting all day. I have a gym. are peopple more honest and less phoney on internet saying the truth without having to be falsely polite? yes
jacksonwaspedo 2 years ago
I am very impressed that you are 6'6". I am very impressed that you weigh 290 lbs. Also that you teach kickboxing and that you weightlift all day. It's all good.
Now then, I repeat the question: Do you employ these manners in a bar when in conversation? What does your size and strength have to do with it? In whose home would you be welcome? At what party? In what bar or restaurant?
What do you do -- insult all with whom you disagree?
I think maybe you enjoy the sheer pleasure of insult.
mwoldin 2 years ago
I already answered your question if I emloy these manners in a bar jackass. Are you too stupid to read? Did you NOT READ? DID YOU NOT comprehend? Why would you ask again? Duh? Size was in response to you intimating that I woudl be physically intimidated by you in a bar. Trust me I wouldn't but you would. I bet I have more friends then you do, attend more parties then you do. I just got done telling yoiu that on internet people don't sugarcoat things and say whyat they really think
jacksonwaspedo 2 years ago
but that in person conversations people's nature is to NOT express what they really think so why would you ask the same fucked up question all over again when I already answered it? GOD YOU ARE ANNOYING TO THE MAX!! (how much do you want to bet the dope asks the same questions AGAIN?)
jacksonwaspedo 2 years ago
do YOU speak in the same manner on the internet then you do in person or are you more readily likely to be curt on the internet?
jacksonwaspedo 2 years ago
I don't see any reason to be less civil online than in person. In either case, I am dealing with a living, breathing human being on the other end, with his own thoughts, feelings, experiences. I am interested in learning from him or her, not to "win" and argument or abuse him.
When I was kid I remember certain kids would throw rocks at squirrels. I always wondered, Why do that?
If I believe that I may be right, how would I hope to persuade someone of my side by insulting him at every turn?
mwoldin 2 years ago
in a bar people would think these thoughts but maybe not verbalize them - not at first anyways but the internet IS NOT a bar it's the internet and people do not feel inhibited by social niceties and so say what they think. in a bar peolpe might not say it cause social situations call for a certain amount of phonieness and pretend. the internet does not
jacksonwaspedo 2 years ago
So would you say that a person who does not feel compelled to call someone else "stupid", dumbass, "on stupid pills" is a phoney?
Is someone more "honest" because he chooses to insult a great actor like Kevin Spacey by imagining him "sucking cock"?
Is the choice we have in society between being respectful of the dignity of others ("phoney") and being contemptuous, crass, and obscene "honest")?
Does this mean that President Mandela or your father or your minister is a phoney if he does not swear?
mwoldin 2 years ago
Yes, Mr. Clifton. I am a dumb ass, and also unintelligent. Thank for clearing that up.
Another problem with the scene for me is that Sam Waterston plays Helms. He is a competent actor, but he is Jewish (as an I). The CIA has always been run by WASPs (read Harlot's Ghost by Mailer). I knew personally Kingsley, who was No. 2 at CIA. Helms was from my neck of the woods -- Maplewood, NJ.
Pure WASP. Pipe, slick blond hair, courtly. Helms played superior with insecure, working class Dick.
mwoldin 2 years ago
there could not have been a more retarded statement aht someone has to be a jew to play a jew etc. stupid beyond belief. are you taking stupid pills? must be
jacksonwaspedo 2 years ago
Right again. I happen to be stupid, too. That's the hat trick. But what does that have to do with whether the scene is sharp or not? Why do you suppose they cut it? Are you one of those fellows who watches all the dull, flaccid "director's cuts"?
mwoldin 2 years ago
Right again! I do have no common sense. But what does that have to do with anything?
mwoldin 2 years ago
You happen to right -- I AM nuts. But what does that have to do with anything?
mwoldin 2 years ago
Turns out Nixon was right and Helms was wrong, 20, 30 years later about China and Russia
RJY4356 2 years ago
This scene wasn't in the movie, it was a deleted extra scene in special features.
RJY4356 2 years ago
I'm not sure that we've ever had a more entertaining, evocative and brilliant a director than Oliver Stone.
yonigga223 2 years ago
My God the tension between these two men is stifling! Always spine-chilling to see two powerful men try to twist each others' hands behind their backs to achieve their political aims...
Nelsonwmj 2 years ago
8:20 WTF is with his eyes?
glimmer2158 2 years ago
@glimmer2158
Sinister alright Helms was in the death business up to his eye balls. God that gave me the shivers and that poem grim grim very grim.
ImeldaDavies 2 years ago
@glimmer2158 My guess is Oliver Stone's impression of his true self that he showed to no one. Pure evil.
yonigga223 2 years ago
this scene explains 'the whole bay of pigs thing'!!!!!
why was it cut out of the movie
also awesomely ties into JFK
eddiemaus87 2 years ago
waterston is always smearing americans
SHMUJEW 2 years ago
You dont fuck with dick helms, perioid
miiiikku 2 years ago 14
"Theres such a thing as evil"
Yeah evil guy. Phew.
ImeldaDavies 2 years ago
@miiiikku Allen Dulles was a National hero....National Socialist hero !!!LOL!
momojojo75 1 year ago
@momojojo75 Dulles was a nazi- it was his clients we killed and plundered for- Dulles did a lot to subvert this country
voxoo 1 year ago
@miiiikku Helms? You don't fuck with SAM WATERSTON.
Mrx2848 1 year ago
nixon's political benefactor was prescott bush father, of george hw bush. george hw was tied by john hankey's investigativefilm 'dark legacy' to not only the bay of pigsinvasion but also the jfk assassination
dsekou 2 years ago
Best scene in the film. Too bad it was cut from the theatrical cut, probably for being too speculative.
foxmagrathea 2 years ago
I cant seem to get this video on, wonder if its been taken off, but doesnt say. Really needed to see these deleted scenes off the directors cut. I'll have to get this film again on DvD, maybe even BlueRay some day.
RaikenXion 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
There are two things that really bother me about this movie: Anthony Hopkins' performance and the overbearing score. Both are on display here.
Beale64 2 years ago
I dont see the need to compare this movie to "Nixon/Frost." Both are good movies, but they deal with totally different themes. Stone's film is more about the corruption of power and the era, more sweeping in scope and almost philosophical or metaphoric of politics in general. Nixon/Frost is more personal, more about individual relationsips and the media...and a defeated man in the Winter of his life.
Each movie evokes a different side of a complex man and phenomenon.
ponderer2009 2 years ago 2
Ebay has it that is where i got my copy.
GeneralJonesIII 2 years ago
This movie is so hard to find. I've looked everywhere. I just need to watch it once.
liangshen 2 years ago
Sir Anthony Hopkinsdid a wonderful job as Nixon. I take this is one of the deleted scenes.
waveali 2 years ago
the guy in frost /nixon did a better nixon job i reckon. nd i love Anthony Hopkins
branaginslaw 2 years ago
Sir Anthony Hopkins is such an unbelievably great actor!
queggy1 2 years ago
It is interesting that Helms quotes a Yeats poem there at the end. Yeats was actually an ancestor of actor Anthony Hopkins.
ponderer2009 2 years ago
Helms's eyes at 8:21 freak me out. Evil eyes.
fvitchard 2 years ago 2
These scenes arent in my version on video cassette. Are they extras on the dvd or is it an extended version? I need to get the dvd!
SmackNcrack01 2 years ago
The reference to JFK was creepy...you could tell what they were really talking about--if you want to be like Kennedy, you're gonna end up like Kennedy. No one wants to end up like Kennedy.
grumpytosnowwhite 2 years ago 3
pure fiction.....a figment of Stone's imagination.
BamaChris 2 years ago
No the meeting did actually take place and furthermore though the account is fictionalised Helms was involved in everything discussed.
ImeldaDavies 2 years ago
The JFK aspect was pure fiction, though.
BamaChris 2 years ago
You think. Sorry to burst your bubble your telling me someone who has studied this case for coming up 18 years that the JFK aspect was wrong. Now theres conspiracies that are theory and bullshit but there are those that are fact heres a few facts.
E Howard Hunt Confessed.
David Phillips Confessed he was in Dallas that day. Now. I dont by the bullshit in Hunts story ie Johnson thats bullshit.
Check out the Whitten Internal CIA probe and see what this scum bag did to that.
ImeldaDavies 2 years ago
false confessions. done only for publicity
BamaChris 2 years ago
Yeah hidden references. I cant help but feel the scene is trying to put to much in there.
ImeldaDavies 2 years ago
I really love the ethereal music chords at 4:05. I hadn't noticed it before, the fragility of power.
sunzuki1234 2 years ago 4
Love the eyes
NiclasOttesen 2 years ago
It's a good scene. The film just isn't right without it.
Waterston was great... Could someone else have played evil, filthy Helms? Maybe Christopher Walker, all polished up.
scorpio888 2 years ago 2
Waterson is overacting a bit, here - but he's effective enough. And damned creepy.
greenwanders 2 years ago
It's unsettling that the CIA and people like Helms hold (held) so much unaccountable power in our supposed "democrary". I lke how Nixon tells Helms "CIA policy?" The CIA had no policy except what I dictate!" You tell 'em Dick!
marcostar57 2 years ago 10
No wonder Stone pulled it. it's flaccid, dull, prosaic and rambling. And truth be told, the acting was unsure.
mwoldin 2 years ago
Is this an outtake?
mwoldin 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
PLEASE
DO NOT READ
swear do not read...I don't even know why I'm participating I guess I'm still a bit paranoid. But really do not read this I swear . DO NOT READ:This is so stupid...
But i love my mom deeply...
And i don't want to take any chances.
If you do not copy and paste this onto 10 videos your mom will die in 4 hours I hat these to.
i dont laugh!
iphoneluver88 2 years ago
intense
ModernitySlays 2 years ago
anthony hopkins wtf
alexXporter 2 years ago
Lifeless eyes, black eyes, like a doll's eyes.......
PeakOil13 2 years ago 4
I have to admit I laughed when he became a demon. That was creepy. So....... was he a demon in real life, or was Stone sort of embellishing that?
I did love this movie and it's extremely entertaining and is accurate in a lot of parts, but every once in a while Stone just writes an entire scene of things that never happened to sort of further a conspiracy theory. But whatever, Oliver Stone isn't a historian.
jhohcable 3 years ago
it was just symbolic.
divine604 2 years ago
In a deathbed statement released in 2007, Hunt finally admits that he was involved in the Kennedy assassination. Also involved, according to Hunt, were CIA officers: Cord Meyer, David Phillips, William Harvey, and David Morales.
mtracy9 3 years ago 4
Anthony Hopkins is certainly one of the best actors of all time.
Wizard364 3 years ago 18
Stone has no shame. He slanders the name of honorable partriots and lifts to hero status scumbags like Jim Garrison, who himself was a slanderer of partriots as well. Stone admits himself "I am a Dramatist not a "Documentarian." His uses this as his license to give us his "true" view of history. George Will called him a Historical Sociopath. Well said becuase it says it all.
jimsboy1 3 years ago
Who gives a fuck what George Will says or doesn't say. You elevating the likes of Nixon and Bush as heroes makes you the sociopath.
jpbalkenende 3 years ago
You're insane. Helms a patriot?
Next thing you'll tell is that Allan Dulles was a national hero!
IamConnorMacLeod 2 years ago 5
Two interesting points I've noticed.
First, Haldermann and Erlichman were the ones who were brusque and rude to Helms, not the other way around. Whenever he visited the White House, they treated him like garbage. Stone turns this fact upside down by showing Helms ignoring Erlichman's extended hand.
Second, he has Helms complaining about the choice of Gen. Kushman as DDCI. But the DDCI slot has always been a presidential appointee. Why would Helms complain? Makes no sense.
DantesDump 3 years ago
I think the implication is that he dislikes the policy (of the presidential "spy") itself.
As for the rudeness, well, Helms could simply be returning the favor, so to speak, on his home turf.
EliCross 2 years ago
Good scene, very well acted and edited. I do think though that probably the reason why it was left out is because the creepy music and the escalating threat in Helms(e.g. the poem) makes the scene very sensationalist and slightly over the top.
RussianSundays 3 years ago
SO MUCH FOR OWNING THE CASINO
FreakZilla34 3 years ago 5
This scene is a bit long but it should have been left in the movie (at least a part of it should have been included) because it is very well written and the acting is great. I don't know if it adds anything to "Nixon" but it sure doesn't distract from the main plot. I don't understand why Stone didn't include it. He must have had his reasons, maybe he thought he was going too far or making it too obvious for us. Or maybe he thought the film was too long already. I don't know.
zodyce 3 years ago
I agree. This scene is great, and why Stone cut it in favor of that maudlin "Nixon meets the flower children" scene boggles the mind.
"I OWN THE FUCKING CASINO"
Word.
MCKRUSH 3 years ago 4
The more I watch it, the more I find this scene fascinating. It is so unbelievably well written. Stone is a genius of dialogue ("Wall Street" is a masterpiece in dialogue) but this scene is one of the best he's ever written. It's a crime he left it out of the movie.
zodyce 3 years ago
He had to leave it out of the movie. Helms heard of this scene and he threatened with a lawsuit.
pl4free 3 years ago 2
You're kidding! It's unbelievable... If Oliver Stone managed to make JFK and nobody sued him after that one, I find it very hard to believe that Helms could legally prosecute him for a scene like this. Anyway, Helms is dead now so I'm sure Stone could include this scene again in a re-released director's cut version of "Nixon".
zodyce 3 years ago
Its true, however. Helms's death was what allowed Oliver Stone to re-instate the scene in the Director's Cut.
IamConnorMacLeod 2 years ago
I find it interesting that Helms starting his career in Advertising.
I guess the Advertising Industry and the CIA are both in the business of mindcontrol and propagander.
celshader 3 years ago
wow!!!it's gotta suck being the president of the united states...it's like playing a game that you can never win.
nameisrobertpaulsen 3 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Oh... and he would have bit his own tongue off before he referred to the President by his first name. Let alone blackmail him in such a direct, blatant manner.
That was classic Oliver Stone propaganda bullshit.
DantesDump 3 years ago