Shogun total war seppuku vid

[DrThundercritic]

Shamefur of Dispray!

[PrincessSpearmint]

I learned about samurais and how they commit seppuku when the samurai brings shame or dishonor to the samurai troop, they say it's a glorious death,

die failing instead of living with the shame and guilt he feels.

I know that seppuku is a drastic measure as far as punishments are concerned. I tell you, if it was America! Seppuku would not be tolerated.

OUCH! Belly Cutting, how painful! No wonder the samurais were

beheaded. OOOOWWWHHHHH< pain!

[WarSmurfs]

You people that are discussing "sucide is against religion" should really read the "good" book abit more. It never mentions the word sucide once.... It just says, and this is a rough interpertation , "god gave you live and it is for him to end it", which people then interupt as that you may not end your own life.

[havee3333333]

There was also a Jewish priest named Josephus who lead a rebellion against the Roman Empire in the year 68. Their city was besieged and later massacred, but a group of 40 remained and Josephus was one of them. He decided that they had to kill each other, but he said that each man kill them man next to you, so they didn't break the Jewish law of no suicide.

Well he later decided that it wasn't a good idea and surrendered to the General and later Emperor Vespasian who decided to let him live.

[havee3333333]

The only reason we think ritual suicide is so strange is because our parents are from a bourgeoisie society. In the Feudal system people cared about honor and family, where now we are greedy egoists who only care about our own benefits. But I don't blame any of you for this because this system has existed since the 1700s. Whole systems have changed from that time, as the bourgeoisie conquered by infesting peoples' minds with greed.

As said best by Karl Marx and Fredrick Engels.

[McSqueaky]

Fucking shit had to hurt so bad.

[moop65]

@McSqueaky it did, in fact, there really was a guy who would give the seppukuee a "second death" (beheading) because of how extremly painful it was

[snakept69]

As far as i know the first time seppuku was executed was by a famous archer.

Trapped in a small island with bounty hunters approaching on boat. He managed to actually kill quite a few and sink a boat.

Before the hunters got to him, he not wanting to die at the hands of simple hired criminals decided to commit suicide.

He stabbed himself across the belly, and then cut sideways. He did this so his hunters would know he died to deny them the honor of killing him, not because he feared death.

[chechamigo]

ok....... that freaked me out alot.

[harino45]

Thank god they have guns now to make it easier.

[gothless]

@MiLeS84666 Although we may not agree with a certain cultural practice, we have to respect it because it was accepted in their society in that era...

[1234yersiman]

@MiLeS84666 This was not only for the Japanese. Even the Rajputs, Indians from Rajastan, were like this. Even women killed themselves for honor, say if their husband died or they committed purposeful adultery, by burning themselves. They were fierce warriors, and struck fear with the invading Muslims.

[havee3333333]

@1234yersiman

When Genghis Khan died, his people sacrificed several women, horse, and soldiers to die with him. This can also be said about ancient China, there was a King who had his whole city sacrificed with him. And it was also a ritual in some Native American tribes.

And the ritual of the Rajputs that you talked about continued, until the East India Company outlawed it in the 1700s.

[f3wbs]

yea seppuku was the ritual suicide to REGAIN  honour that was lost due to cowardness of samurai's

[FmaScar]

In the game when does this happens? when your general lost to many battles??

[ShinXari]

We should remember that they were warriors.... and warriors were used to death. And it was also a period when human life was far more harsher than the one we live today..... persons died often of famine...illness....childbirth­....war.... Death was something very close...every day and in every moment. And for japanese religion,Shinto, death (also by suicide)was only a passage to another existence as a kami or ancestor state, very different from the christian view that dominated europe.

[ShinXari]

@ShinXari For Christians... suicide is a great sin against God because a persons refuses the "gift of life" God gived to him...... and this conception has survived and subtly guided the western view even in the modern times where everyone seems to despise the Church and christian religion. I am not saying that suicide is good or not.... i'm only saying that we cannot judge a period or a people thinking that they were "wrong"....it was a very different world.

[keinve2]

Minor thing to point out; the codes of Chivalry also had rules for honourable suicide. So, while seppuku is uniquly japanese, honourable suicide was rather common in the past.

Usually, its a choice between the state killing you and you killing yourself.

[havee3333333]

@keinve2

Not in Christian, Jewish, and Islamic societies. Remember that in the feudal system in Europe, the biggest thing people cared about was leaving this horrible world and going to the next. And it was against all of these religions to commit suicide, punishable by hell.

[keinve2]

@havee3333333 Dude, knights had rules about honourable suicide. Remember; back then, suicide was much prefered to what your enemies would do to you. Hell, its why the Romans and Greeks held the idea of suicide as being good; better than letting your enemies get their hands on you.

[havee3333333]

@keinve2

Yes, in Paganist Europe, suicide was used. The Emperor Nero had a servant put a sword right threw his throat. But this was a different age.

I was talking about feudal Europe during the middle ages. The age of Chivalry and Piety had no suicidal rituals.

When the Islamic leader Saladin captured the Crusader State in the Third Crusades, the Knights didn't surrender nor commit suicide. Saladin offered them to convert to Islam, but they refused, and they were beheaded as a consequence.

[fitoou]

lol, if the one who cuts up the head failed (make something wrong, like not hit the right way), he had to do seppuku, too ^^

[RoniCMaster]

The very reason why seppuku is supposed to be excruciatingly painful and offers no quick death is to show that the bushi does not die out of cowardice but in order to safeguard his honor. The Samurai who started this tradition was one in service of the Emperor during the the Emperor's last days in power (soon to become a mere figurehead). He was about to be captured and killed boatloads of rebelling samurai and refuse to allow his enemies the pleasure and reward that comes with taking his head.

[RyuRiku]

I'm sorry but as far as i know, when a man comitted the ritual suiside iit was called harakiri. When a woman did so it was called seppuku

[malevolenceXXXensues]

it looked like he had a plug beneath his robe

[festis1313]

loser. he didnt last long

[midgiemelendez]

when does this happen in game?

[anttonoo]

Seppuku means Ritual Suicide. And this form of Seppuku is Harakiri (belly cutting).

[staynifty]

did you guys know that there are more suicides in japan then natural deaths a year.

[ishikawaalex]

You guys better learn about honne and tatemae before you start discussing the nature of seppuku. If you knew anything about actual Japanese culture you would know exactly why it was commited and for what purpose.

I will give you a hint. Terms like 'honor' and 'respect' are used for the beautification of the ritual and are the tatemae aspect of ritual suicide.

If any of you actually live in Japan I am sure you can guess what the honne is based on your experiences.

[tomatoesandham]

it wasnt just the fact that they were commiting suicide, it was the fact that they were sticking a blade into their stomach then moving it over then moving it diagonally. It takes some balls to be able to do that to your self. Also seppuku was the honorable way to die and was usually only commited when they had shamed them selves or their masters or were about to be killed by enemy samurai.

[Kiyoshi1994]

Harakiri means a cut in the stomach, where they thought the soul was

then usually there would be someone there to cut off his head

[axtin17]

crap

[ShinXari]

yep... it was another time with another way of thinking......

[TheRantingRocker]

A bit late on the katana, they usually sliced the head off at the moment the wakizashi plunged into the body.

[Katyusha666]

No, they cut it when the head is bowed so that it doesnt fly at the officials watching the ceremony.

[Rhyc111]

no they cut it when the person was experiencing the most pain

[DM4717]

Ouch

[adisor906]

it only happende once in my campaing

[PhatFarm60]

This is what Hirohito should have done after surrendering.

[crabvader11]

hirohito wasnt a samurai

[ApesHaveNoTails]

He's supposed to stay sitting till he gives the signal to chop his head off. Gross, anyway.

[swimdroops]

torturing yourself is the same as being tortured by others. It's a fail fail situation.

[NinjaDonutPhillip]

Seppuku was committed on account of shame that would be brought to them from too many defeats or from being captured. Really, it works if you don't want to be tortured until the end of the war.

[Crazyhead06]

That was wrong actually, once the samurai stuck the tanto into his stomach the vassal or friend whould immediatly cut his head off

[92abcdefg]

The Samuri would kill themselves to avoid the shame of defeat, or being captured (Bushido, unlike Chivalry, had no code of conduct regarding treatment of prisoners.) Women did the same to avoid rape if their house was invaded. They would kneel down, tie their legs together, and cut their throats. They were not expected to suffer the way men did.

[FRANKENMANWOLFENSTEI]

cauuseee suuuiiiiciiiiide is paaaiiinleesssss it briiings on many chaannnngeeeesss

[mixedgrain]

Seppuku can be voluntary if someone feels they can't recover their honour any other way. It can be also involuntary - a samurai is given the 'privilege' of taking his own life rather than having it taken like a criminal in an execution.

[Istojataachatearme]

In what situations would seppuku be the right choice of conduct?

[Istojataachatearme]

Whatever it is it's suicide, an excape.

[Sadoos]

Not quite escaping. Seppuku was Japanese custom, they weren't doing it because they wanted, they were forced to. In some cases they could choose between death by someone's hand and suicide. Of course the second way was honourable.

[Istojataachatearme]

Forced to kill themselfs? I think they should be trying to kill those who wish them dead instead.

[unsightly]

You clearly do not understand the concept of honour. If the alternative is to continue living in disgrace and shame, only a weakling and a coward would fail to take their own life.

[Istojataachatearme]

So, if they did something that disgraced their honour to that point, there is no way they can get it back by killing themselfs. Instead, they must try hard as hell to earn back their honour in life. Only a weakling and a coward who wouldn't be up to the task whould commit suicide instead of dealing with their reponsability.

[unsightly]

That is obviously wrong. People do not earn back their name after they have disgraced themselves. That's what disgrace means. People should accept degradation just so they can continue living? Such weakness is depressing to hear.

[Istojataachatearme]

Depressing why? The Samurai views of honor are just morbid in my opinion. And I was saying that people should never accept degradation, but always fight it! That can't be depressing. Killing oneself is. Again, my opinion.

[Sadoos]

Yeah, Suicide is no way to solve anything but hey the Japanese were taught to do so in particular situations, it was a part of their culture. I mean, it was no choice of them but the duty or maybe I should say behavioral pattern.

[Agent1W]

The feudal Japanese glorified death a lot more than other world cultures across the board. Didn't the Samurai actually HOPE to die in battle? A Samurai warrior who expects to die actually fought better than one who expects to live(which they take that into account as cowardice).

To them, death is full of EPIC WIN!

[JBXyooj]

"So Tenchi San, Are you read to die today?" "YOU BET SUBARU SAN!!!! I CAN'T WAIT TO BE GUTTED TODAY :D WITH HOOONOR."

apparently this doesn't apply to the FPS, and multiplaying game field today :D lol.

[Agent1W]

Well, yeah, they had that figured out. If they fought so well that they lived, then that makes them all the more better. But nowadays, we seek to survive the best we can so that we can do more. It reminds me of an old quote, "A dead soldier is a WORTHLESS soldier!"

[JBXyooj]

But then again it would of made WWII a even harder battlefield for the Allie forces.

[Mack488]

Very well put.

[lagook]

exactly like puting your army into dead ground

for those who have actualy read sun tzu

[sirasa100]

@Istojataachatearme EVEN THEYRE FATHERS TOLD THEM TO KILL THEMSELVES SOMETIME

[KaiserTota]

You're obviously wrong. Suicide is weakness. Quitters never win. Suicide is quitting.

[brwhizz]

Not in feudal Japan is wasn't. It was the the only way to make up for 'shaming one's honour'.

[KaiserTota]

Yes, but I'm talking about modern times, where such thing as honor and chivalry codes are pretty nonexistent.

[CymroFinnegan]

Sort of irrelevant given this is from a game about feudal Japan.

You're talking about a way of life and code of conduct that existed for hundreds and hundreds of years. I really don't think they'd give much of a toss if some spotty kid on YouTube thought they were "quitters."

[KaiserTota]

Actually, I'm quite zit friendly. I only have like 2 at a time, I'm not a pizza face. Puberty has left little damage on my pretty little face, whereas in my genitalia... hmmm

Anyway, I'm calling people who commit suicide quitters, because people ought to have a new view of the world. Hope is the last to die.

[CymroFinnegan]

Think you sort of missed the point there.

I don't, fundamentally, disagree with your point on suicide in any modern context. I just think it's irrelevant here.

[KaiserTota]

It was relevant when people where talking about suicide being an honourable "thing" in actuality.

[lagook]

i think you miss understand the origins or hari kiri

it was created when a famous samuri defeated many enemy but he reached a point where he wanted to make a statement that he would not be captured, so he comminted suicide ina painful manner showing he was not afraid of death or pain and they couldnt not defeat him... this was japans most famous archer and the origins or seppuku

[Lil0Fire0Imp]

In Japan Seppuku was choice to redeem the honour you loss. The dishonoured would normally preform Suppuku to redeem their honour, and typically the honour of their family, friends, and who ever they also brought dishonour upon from their actions as well. [Typically Family] It was also a choice of death in the court of law. You could preform Seppuku and redeem your honour, instead of having the court killing you, letting you die without any honour. Suicide sometimes is the best way out.

[lagook]

the origins or hari kiri make more sence that what it became as you speak of during the tokugawa period

[Jeimuzu]

Hara kiri is different from Seppuku. Hara kiri was to kill yourself before death. Seppuku is to regain honor for your family or Daiyamo. Hara kiri was ww2 and seppuku is old and yet still done today for the japanese who wish to die for money for their family.

[bc0613]

Thanks for the info, Jeimuzu. I didn't know that the two were different.

You mention that seppuku is still being committed today - would you by chance know 'who' commits it? Businessmen? Also is it related to shinto or to Zen Buddhism?

[Jeimuzu]

Well today from what Ive read in articles, its just about any guy who is losing their job and want to make their family live in the same house without worring about losing it. Mainly Buisnessmen but can be just about any one. Its not a religion related thing, its a code. Its hard to understand without understanding the Samurai's code. If a Samurai cant do it, it is very dishonorable and its like taking away everything you have.

[bc0613]

I see. I knew Japan had an incredibly high suicide rate, but this adds a whole new level to it all. Indeed, as you say 'suicide' is a widely inaccurate term as it ignores notions of honour, family and dignity which play a crucial part in the concept of seppuku. Incredible how such ideas have lived on and applied themselves to new contexts.

[1Khalai]

that's not so strange....also in the western world we have a lot of behaviours by wich we are still influenced without even knowing it....

[tomatoesandham]

@bc0613 Ok. No one commits seppuku anymore, they would have to be crazy. True Japan has a high suicide rate, but the people who commit suicide the most are teenagers. This is because of the intense school programs there. An average student who plays a sport in japan wakes up at 4ish practices their sport until school starts goes to school, goes to afters school practice, goes to cram school, then goes home to study and do homework. Obviously this would get some people a little bit stresssed.

[elesararwos]

@tomatoesandham XD not true man... people in Japan still commit seppuku, it's just not as prevalent. Whether it is actual seppuku is still a matter of debate. Some people believe only Samurai should be permitted to perform seppuku, and therefore the action being taken by anyone other than the now-extinct class is not seppuku. Yukio Mishima performed "seppuku" in the 1970s I believe. It happens, but not nearly as often anymore.

[Quy4life]

buddhism would never allow suicideeeeeeeeeeeee whether if it an act of honor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Brooks1990]

@Quy4life

most japanese are shinto

[facelessred]

your trying to imply your own beleifs to an old custom of thejapanese culture. thats easily repeated if one of them could say. "How can u go on living after such a disgrace, your a shame to be such a coward and fear for your own life." it's opinion vs opinion. and while i don't agree with "seppuki", or any other Hari Kiri. you can't really throw out an opinion like that and expect it to hold presidence over the way of life back then.

[Istojataachatearme]

I dont want it to 'hold presidence', Im just debating it. A person should go on living with a disgrace so that they suffer what they must and even try to rectify it. A dead man doesn't suffer anymore and that's why so many people commit suicide. Which goes against the meaning of honor. Suicide is what weak minded people, who can't deal with the consequences of their actions, do.

[Sadoos]

The thing is that in most cases it wasn't what they wanted to do but what they had to.

[Istojataachatearme]

Please give me an example.

[MO4B]

Yes, I read this on wikipedia by the way. A couple of frenchmen entered some japanese town called sakai, a fight broke out between them and local samurai and the french were killed. Later on the french requested those responsible to be punished resulting in 12 samurai to be forced to commit suicide by seppuku. The french captain requested a pardon for 9 of the samurai after he was shocked by the brutality while four of them killed themselves. Isn't wikipedia great? =D

[rosswoof]

@Istojataachatearme for a different view of 16th century samurai views read Yojokun - a samurai says the same; that killing yourself is stupid for a samurai as how can you be of service to anyone when you are dead?

[kirkenseth]

@Istojataachatearme well are you brave enough to kill yourself even if you wanted? imagine if you didn't.

[Istojataachatearme]

@kirkenseth Well I dont see why not, my grandfather was.

[kirkenseth]

@Istojataachatearme thats...just sad...but maybe you have to think of it more like a death sentence

[Istojataachatearme]

@kirkenseth That I understand, It's worthy to kill oneself if the only option is to be killed by another. Still it's a very rotten tradition to drive people into that situation.

[ridge084]

@Istojataachatearme You no nothing of what happens to the dead, nor of what honour meant to those that ended their lives. A weak minded person couldn't kill themselves as they wouldn't have the discipline to overcome their survival instincts unless they were somehow unaware of what they were doing.

[Istojataachatearme]

@ridge084 weak minded people kill themselfs all the time, because they are unable to deal with their problems. So they take the easy way out.

[ridge084]

@Istojataachatearme Why don't you show us all how easy it is? If you would never ever do it, how on Earth could YOU claim that it's the easy way out?

[Sadoos]

@Istojataachatearme In the case of seppuku it wasn't the easy way out, i many cases samurai were required to do it for, like umm, stupid reasons.

[kemot722]

cool

[Revanthedarklord]

um yea, Hara-kiri, is just commiting suicide, Seppuku is commiting suicide the shameful way, and ur head is then removed.

[khbgkh]

seppuku is shameless and actually brings back lost honor. god damn wapanese cant even get their fuckin facts straight

[HumIntOps]

LOL.

[khbgkh]

exactly. lawlz.

[HumIntOps]

Damn right man. Your awsome.

[stab84]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I knew that seppuku doesn't give your honor back, it just prevents your dishonor to shame your relatives.

[An1mePhreak]

Seppuku doesn't necessary bring back lost honour if the ceremony is done hastily or incorrectly. Sometimes it's used to avoid a death through torture.

[balonglongprince]

@khbgkh Hmmm so there is honor in dissing another culture's beliefs?

[khbgkh]

@balonglongprince you realize wapanese and Japanese are two completely different things right?

[SoldForLessLIVE]

@khbgkh yes. The Japanese would know what these ceremonies are about.

[imlevel0]

@khbgkh and eating hamburgers and playing video games gets you anywhere in life.

[khbgkh]

@imlevel0 I dont know these things because I eat hamburgers and play video games. I know these things because I'm educated. I learned about sepukku and hara kiri through my study of history, not by playing Shogun Total War. And yes, studying does take you somewhere in life. It gives you the tools to be able to manipulate the simple minded (like yourself) in order to further your own existence. Then, as you stand at the top, waving down at the idiots, they look up and grudgingly call you a loser.

[vulgarshudder]

this is bollocks, hara-kiri and seppuku is the same act just a different way of reading it. You keep some honour by killing yourself, and it is customary for anyone to have a 2nd to chop off your head (a trusted friend) so the agony isn't too long.

[Sadoos]

You are right, in fact seppuku is the right name of the ritual of killing yourself in order to preserve your honor. Hara kiri is a disrespectful phrase meaning "stomach cutting" probably made up by americans.

[ddcanx]

like shit

[tasichuck]

ive learned its the intestines not the stomach?_?

[neutralwind]

and the head cut off part, That was their second (normally a close friend) to cut the head at the first sign of pain) unless they were captured, then the enemy cut the head as a trophy

[neutralwind]

if your 90% japanesse Zatousagi, Youd know Seppuku means "self disembowlment" and harikiri, is a vulgar term whcih, in most traditional dojos is not even spoken. Its a harsh vulgarity to what they believe is an honourable art.

hari-kiri "belly-cutting" (again, quite vulgar to japanesse)

[Sadoos]

but hey, it's the difference in name but the action is he same right?

[kenmabie]

no

nothing alike, hari kari is what stupid american pigs say , seppuku is what its real name is

[kenmabie]

exactly your the first person to know that on here besides me or at least voice it , hari kari is a vulgar term, and seppuku is the act of preserving ones honor, kudos to you for knowing this.

[GoldZombie]

Actually,i want to ask how you got this at shogun total war??

[Sadoos]

well i took the file from shogun total war folder :P

[GoldZombie]

i mean how you get this in the game??

[Sadoos]

I think the video appears when one of ur generals loses a battle

[ConCon75]

whats the movie at the start called i thouht it was ran u know the 12 with the old man?

[ConCon75]

the 1 lol not the 12 lol

[Animalmother91]

It it indeed Ran.

[koihoono]

old days crazy

[Jeimuzu]

ok....from what Ive studied...in moves they just stab. In the old days most that were true deticated to their daiyamo would stab and open his stomache...then his friend would cut his head off.

[Sadoos]

well, you are right films do not show real seppuku, they always had to open their stomach.

[abscds]

how far they could open up their stomachs before bowing their heads (indicating to the samurai to cut his head off) was a sign of honour : )

grizzly

[Sadoos]

they could open their stomachs as far as they were able to, they weren't always bowing as soon as they opened them, some were so resistant they could even write their last will with their own blood :]

[Sadoos]

harakiri and seppuku is the same :]

[RGBandit]

isn't that harakiri not seppuku?

[zatousagi]

same thing dude

[RGBandit]

oh, kk thnx

[Raven706]

No not the same thing. Harakiri is just the stabbing of the stomache. Seppuku is the slicing of the stomache around 6" in in two to four lines.

So RGBandit is right it is Harakiri because he did not slice his gut open but stabbed into it. By all means no less fatal but a lot less painful.

[Sadoos]

Well i was talking to a Japanese and she said it's the same, and I'm going to argue :P

[Raven706]

Do all the research you want, Seppuku is the slicing open of the stomach in two to four lines. The more lines, the braver the warrior.

Harakiri is just the stabbing of the stomach. Samurai were not required to open their stomach, they we're required only to stab, but slicing shows your bravery and honor.

[zatousagi]

Actually I think that there were only two lines like a cross without the bottom half.

[zatousagi]

im 90% japanese (doesnt really mean i know a lot tho) and seppuku has the head chopped off. but i think hara kiri is a more rushed or desperate form so im not that sure about it.

[Raven706]

Zatousagi, do some research on the Samurai who was exiled, when he committed Seppuku, he sliced I think it was 6 lines across his stomach. As for the head being chopped off there is no difference in that fact.

[zatousagi]

to be frank, I am too lazy to do research during summer vacation.

[Sadoos]

Anyway I just think Raven706 is claiming to be the wisest one:P but it doesn't really work :P

[zatousagi]

he definitely sounds wise

[hereishim]

wow