I don’t buy this analogy. You are able to be a pacifist because there are tough men willing to fight to keep you from having to protect yourself and your own family from violence. The perfect world you desire is not possible, not anytime soon unfortunately. Would you prefer to live in a Muslim State, or America? One is not perfect, but is much less the criminal than the other. Comparing the two is asinine. Moral Relativism will not bring about the change you seek.
Muslims didn't do 9/11. Muslims didn't do 9/11. Muslims didn't do 9/11. Muslims didn't do 9/11. Muslims didn't do 9/11. Muslims didn't do 9/11. Muslims didn't do 9/11. Muslims didn't do 9/11. Muslims didn't do 9/11. Muslims didn't do 9/11.
Figure if I repeat myself enough time's it'll sink in. 9/11 was staged BY THIS GOVERNMENT. IT WAS A DECLARATION OF WAR AGAINST YOU ...SCHMUCK
Another question that we aught to ask is if there would be the same amount of outrage if this were a Christian or Jewish facility instead of an Islamic facility.
No there wouldn't, but why should there be? The hijackers were of the same faith, thus the building of this structure there and the structure in an of itself is actually quite a mockery, and a sick one at that... how people don't see this is beyond me.
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Let them build it!!! I would let them build it! And then about a month or so after they open for buissness I would go in there with the special forces or even better with the family members of 9/11 and ass rape,torture,behead every one of those muslim dogs!!!! please build it ?
Apples and Oranges. Not one of your better efforts. Pick up a copy of the Qur'an and the Hadith by al-Bukhari and compare with the teachings of Christ. Does this mean that people have not done bad things to promote Christianity? Not at all. The difference is that this is the approved MO of Islam.
great video stef. update...I just LOVED when FOX News railed against the mosque. then they came out with their "Follow the Funding" tactic for getting people to side with them against the muslim community center. The #1 funder is a Saudi Prince who is the majority stockholder in FOX's parent company. i laughed so hard i cried for lack of air.
Actually, the US hasn't done jack for the Christians of Iraq. Policy there has been based on finding accommodation with the powers that be, & those powers are Muslim. Similarly, the US hasn't shown concern over the hard lot of Christians in Egypt or Turkey.
Please Google "Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe" which is an unchallenged peer reviewed study by Dr Steven Jones et al.
"In short, the paper explodes the official story that 'no evidence' exists for explosive/pyrotechnic materials in the WTC buildings."
The red/gray chips are the "loaded gun" of 9-11."
-- Dr. Steven Jones
Muslim extremists could not have had access to either the technology, expertise or the buildings that would be needed
Great point but its not the fact that its against the Constitution for them to put their community center there. Its just very disrespectful to the people that lost their lives and the family members who lost a loved one in that tragedy. The Muslims that committed the crime are devout Muslims and their god is telling them to do so. So we're going to let them worship the god that told them to attack America on September eleventh on the same grounds? It just doesnt make sense.
"The Muslims that committed the crime are devout Muslims and their god is telling them to do so. "
No no no. You took the bait thrown at you by the war and fear mongering agenda-media. This was not a "islamic attack", and no act of someones religion at all. Maybe a strong faith in a afterlife "helped" them in some way to do so. But this was completely politically motivated terrorism, not an act of their religion.
"Its just very disrespectful to the people that lost their lives and the family members who lost a loved one in that tragedy."
Again...
Do you know that a lot of muslims were also killed on 9/11 working in the trade centers? Do you know that the "mosque" is no mosque but a community center with basketball court, a libary and a swimming pool? and that there are christian, and jewish prayer rooms included?
This anti-muslim hype is "psy-ops" to eradicate empathy with iraq and afg.
But the ''DEVOUT MUSLIMS'' who committed the crime were either buried down alive by B-22 in AFG or tortured to death in Guitmo, so they no longer exist.
Yes Stef, but the towers & WTC7 were brought down by controlled demolition, & over 1200 architects now support this view.
Another point I would bring to your attention is that the Imam who is fronting this staged media outrage is a member of the Council Of Foreign Relations.
I dont know much about the 911 truth movement there.. but a lot of people also claim continously that "32.000 world leading scientist" would disagree with man made climate change because some lobbyist promoted it on fox noise. And i must say- in this case these are all irresponsible PR-campaigns based on lies.
By the way i will upload a clip soon with nyfd pictures that show (a bit) how extremely destroyed wtc7 was before it collapsed.
Please watch 'Blueprint For Truth' by Richard Gage of Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth.
Specifically, the overwhelming evidence of controlled demolition:
1. NIST itself admits that WTC fell at free fall speed for 2.5 seconds THROUGH THE PATH OF GREATEST RESISTANCE. This is not explained, or indeed possible, through fire alone.
2. Pools of molten iron underneath all three towers, confirmed by multiple sources & NASA imaging. Impossible.
This makes me absolutely angry that people are protesting the mosque being built. I am not a Muslim, but why are we even debating this. As a Christian, I would be absolutely outraged that a cathedral couldn't be built all because of the actions of the KKK. People are crying and hold up signs saying "Don't betray the honor of those who died..." SCREW YOU! Some of those people who died and fought to save lives were Muslim! How dare ppl be such hypocrites!
Well said. This is exactly the point many people are failing to understand. One cannot blame one group of people for the crimes of another group simply because they share the same religion. If I walked into a mall and shot the place up killing hundreds of people and claimed that I did it in the name of Buddhism, does that now mean that all Buddhists share culpability? Of course not.
@Textra1 And techically, a radical muslim would never consider doing harm so close to a mosque. People should think about it that way because if something were to happen, that would be the safest place to be! Islamic extremist don't kill for the sport of just to be mean, they absolutely believe it necessary to win the favor of Allah/God so they would never put the mosque in jeopardy. It is holy gorund. If one were built right next to the World Trade, it would probably still be up.
why would you invade another country steal their resources and murder the population, build your churches there and then allow them to do the same to you? come on! you must of missed the empire building classes at school!
@dikkydoo1 That's just it. Muslims have been in this country for centuries! And the misconception is that anyone who is of the Islamic faith is either a terrorist of from another country. WRONG! People are bringing on a unheavenly Holy war and they simply don't know it yet. Revelations is coming head strong but these bigoted idiots just don't realize they are playing a huge part in its coming! No on like to talk about the Christian terrorism that goes on in that same region.
Timothy Mcveigh was roman catholic..he committed one of the worst terrorist attacks in united states history..do you think theres opposition in oklahoma city to roman catholic churches?
Pat Condell puts the counter-position to the one you espouse here:
watch?v=oJQ4bwGPRuk
His previous vid on this topic scored over 4 million hits. Pat sees the issue as one of Bismarckian realpolitik, whereas you see it (I think) as one which the prime issue should be logical consistency. You give arguments priority according to whether the principles on which they are founded are useful in other circumstances and occasions. How would YOU epitomise the differences between your position and his?
stef, i think yer an extremely intelligent man, and have been a big fan of yers since i stumbled across yer channel... with that said,idk how you could possibly still believe these were islamic attacks... considering all the loose ends in the official story, the contradictions, leftout testimonies of witnesses and experts in their respective fields, and the fact that the only ones to truly benefit from these attacks were the neocons and their business partners... but, i still love you man. lol
Or better yet, is anyone asking the question of whether the United States built a largely Christian nation after eliminating all the natives in the area while on their own religious quest for independence? Certainly the Muslims have an equal privilege to build their community center, so it seems that what it really comes down to is lay people trying to come to terms with their willingness to use coercion to enforce their view on the world - whether by contesting Muslims or pushing Christianity.
@hawklord2001 Does the government tax the Freemasons or country clubs? Why would you require people to pay the government for the privilege of associating with one another?
@HiddenAuthor Churches divde people and indoctrnate children with a false information. They do not deserve a tax exempt status. If a church can prove it has a program to benefit the community then give them a non profit status.
@hawklord2001 False information? Like God exists? You know if the government decided that "God exists" is false information, that would count as establishment of religion which is against the constitution. Because the statement "God exists" is a religious issue and government decisions on religious issues are described by the Constitution as "establishment of religion"!
@HiddenAuthor Gov'ts already sanction religions by giving them a tax exempt status thereby putting the gov't in the position of choosing what cult qualifies as a religion and which ones don't.
I am more mad about American belief that they have a right to behave in same barbaric ways as Taliban does. What is the agenda of American society? Is it that Americans can only be enjoying freedom if they are Christian or does any human being has right to have say as how they live their life. I am actually discussed by morality that is taking place in America. The entire world looks up to them and they choose the path that decimates human evolution.
@sano0311 How many Afghan civilians have been killed by the American military anyway? Not counting the civilians who hid fighters or used their babies as camoflauge for the terrorists...
@natmanprime how the fuck was 9-11 explicity religous? did you buy the crap about them hating us for our freedom? it was as political as they come. the reasons given was american presence in the middle east and support for israel. why can't people like you get that through your heads??
@HiddenAuthor Way to muddy the waters and strawman me. Answer the points I addressed or shut the fuck up retard, I won't allow you to put words in my mouth.
@libanlibanliban Well you can make this a pissing contest by calling me a retard. Or you can put two and two together and realize that the same networks of people responsible for 9-11 are responsible for attacking people for dissing their religion. Everything they do has a religious motive. If the Americans were Muslims, al-Qaeda would not care about their presence in the Middle East. Bigotry associated with religion is at the core of al-Qaeda.
Yes and I guess you were not there when Fox News accepted money from Saudi princ. Only TV network that allows dumb people to make up story as they go. Their most reliable news source is Google. I can't believe this. If Muslims have for centuries respected wishes of their prophet not being idolized as God why the hell do nut cases have to provoke Muslims for no reason. Look up tolerance in dictionary it might help you.
@sano0311 Yes satire is not very nice. But if South Park cartoonists can draw Jesus, then why should people ignore it when terrorists attack them for drawing Mohammed? Because it isn't like South Park's portrayal of Jesus is not a satire as well...
@libanlibanliban When someone suicides himself, and he's of the muslim faith, there's religion involved.
Remember I said explicit.
I'm sure Osama mentioned religion somewhere, didn't he? somthing about jihad. Now I'm sure you're right about the politics of it.
I just think religion (jews, Xtians, Muslims) are at least part of the whole damn thing, so you should NOT be building another motherf@#king RELIGIOUS BUILDING at GROUND MOTHERF@#KING ZERO!!!
Great vid Stef! I think it important to mention the US built a monument to its government on land that was sacred to American Indians. The Black Hills, where Mount Rushmore is, was sacred ground for the Lakota Sioux that lived there for hundreds of years before the US government just up and took it. That seems way worse than a mosque on private property.
@stefbot Great argument. Your last video I watched(salvation of philosophy part 2) was not very well constructed, at least argument in the middle. But this video is superb. Just brilliant and shows the complete hypocrisy of those that want to restrict freedoms based on how they "feel" and not even dare extend that courtesy to any other group they happen not to agree with.
@freemariner American Indians in that part of South Dakota are, in my opinion, being marginalized. I was stationed close to Rapid City and was told not to visit Reservations or engage with the local inhabitants. Sounds like segregation still exists, only suppressed. I was also unaware of Mount Rushmore's history. Thank you for sharing.
Let's see, you're saying that their use of jets to destroy the World Trade Center, and attempt to destroy the Pentagon, using religion as their justification, is morally equivalent to our army unleashing on Saddam Hussein and destroying his secular tyranny? Sorry, I don't see the comparison. The REAL culprit is a religion, Islam, that teaches it's a person's RIGHT to KILL another person based upon that other person's faith. Islam is a cult, not a religion.
I'd rather patriarchal religion left the United States altogether. We have enough as it is, I don't want more coming. Especially a patriarchal religion that at its very core advocates the abuse of and subjugation of women, one whose very name is translated as "Submission". No thank you.
I'm sure you can understand why people would feel so angry though. After all, it's the same emotional outrage (toned down by many orders of magnitude, of course) that Muslims must be feeling about American occupations and murders in the Middle East. I guess this is just a reiteration of your essential point in a slightly different light.
Although you rightfully raise questions at the motivation behind wars started by the US...i still think you are happy you are not living in a country with sharia law, right?
1. 9-11 was an inside job by anglos (blamed on muslim extremists).
2. its a ploy to continue division and hatred.
3. christians building churches in iraq is tacky, but not as tacky as the us military installing permanent bases. the mosque near ground zero is the least tacky of the three. but barely.
religious nutsacks of all stripes have gobs of money to build ostentatious monuments to their violent ideologies... why not build an effing charity hospital or something else useful?
@immayhem A few anglos were involved, but Zionist Jews were the main perpetrators of 9/11. The Anglo establishments are largely puppets of Zionist Jewry and their lobby organizations in Anglo countries. Google: Israel did 9/11, Dancing Israelis.
@immayhem That seems like a cop-out. You don't care? If 85% of the conspirators are Jewish and/or Israeli than that would seem to be quite a coincidence don't you think? Jews are not Anglos, iin fact that are competitors to Anglos which is why they seek to control all Anglo countries through their various Lobbyist organisations.
@SeeingThingsClearly Judaism is not a race. It's a religion. There is no such thing as a Jewish race. Jews are either more Semitic (same genetic markers as Arabs, Persians, etc.) or they are eastern European Anglos or other races (like the Jews in Ethiopia)... but let me repeat it - Jews are not a race unto themselves. You or I could convert to Judaism tomorrow and we'd be Jews. People of all races have converted to Judaism for millennia.
@immayhem Jews are an ethnicity as well as a religion. An atheist named Jack Goldstein, or Arthur Rosenbaum is still considered a Jew. Gentiles who convert to Judaism are not necessarily considered a Jew by most Jews. Not a 'proper' one.
@SeeingThingsClearly Quite Incorrect. Any 'ethnicity' that Jews claim is shared (either with Arabs, or with eastern Europeans or others). The people you mentioned have Jewish religious and cultural heritage, but racially, they could be entirely different from one another. My last name is Irish, but I'm not racially Irish. Most black people I know have very UN-African last names. It doesn't make them any less African. There is NO Jewish race. Maybe in another 1,000 years.
Dude, Judaism (i.e., being a "Jew") is a RELIGION...just like there is no Christian "race", there is no Jewish race, unless one recognizes a VERY broad definition of "race". Israel refers to nationality too, not race. Just like there is no American "race" there is no Israeli race.
The very notion of "race" is a little tricky to begin with. People w/comparitively darker skin and eyes which are more slanted obviously stand out from those w/lighter skin and rounder eyes, but outside of that determining "race" at a glance isn't very easy to do. I guess genetics could be used to determine which people are more closely related, but who really cares?
@immayhem In fact the Anglos directed their Muslim agents to attack on that day. And why? In order to justify attacks on their Muslim agents! Really how much sense does that make?
once again the american people have shown the world just how gullible and stupid they really are.The govt is fighting 2 wars( and thinking of starting another) that they can not ever possibly win.The economy is still in the dumps and all you dumbs fucks can think about is "Obamas a muslim I just know he is " and a fuckin community centre.Hard to believe that in the 21st century mythical religions still have a death grip on the gullible fucking religious idiots that dwell among us
I mean the whole thing is moot once you realize 9-11 was an inside job. This whole mosque at ground zero is just another attempt to get people to hate and fear Muslims "because of 9-11" when the whole idea of 9-11 being some kind of religious attack by "fundamentalist Muslims" is a complete lie just like the WMDs and everything else coming from the government. Explain to me again how Islam caused the only steel frame concrete buildings in history to collapse free fall from fires?
If it turns out this mosque/community center actually will promote militant Islam, is that ok? Of course they wont advertise it, but it may go on there behind closed doors. It's two blocks away because that's the closest place available, they would get closer to GZ if they could. All the talk of them having a swimming pool and a culinary school there doesn't change the possibility of the place having a very dark side. And mentioning hypocricy of American Christians building churches in Iraq.....
@NYatheist ...in Iraq, seems to be an argument of saying 2 wrongs make a right. The GZ mosque is ok since some Christinas are being equally obnoxious with the placement of their church somewhere? That appears to be a terrible argument in favor of the mosque. A key question is who will fund the construction, it's estimated it will cost $100 million since it will be quite large, 13 floors if I recall correctly. So if we allow a place that is an indoctrination center for more miltancy, how.........
@NYatheist how foolish is that? It's not as if 9/11 is considered the end of the USA's enemies desire to attack the USA. Some say 9/11 might just be their first attack, and they have more barbaric plans. That means Americans need to take very seriously the expansion of Islam in our country, since it may amount to our enemies setting up covert military bases in our land. I can already hear the ''conspiracy theory'' buzzword bullshit from somein reaction to that, but that's the sort of war......
@NYatheist ...war they will fight. A very covert and hidden one, one meant to slowly but surely spread their influence and dramatically change the cultural environment. It wont manifest fully for many years, but when it does, who can say it wont be a serious problem? The time to prevent that is now. If religion gives people an automatic acceptance under the banner of ''religious freedom'' then any bizarre and openly religion should get the same protection and freedom, but they don't. We still...
@NYatheist ....still discriminate against a religion that shows at least some violent tendencies. Islam shouldn't get an automatic free pass because it's one of the old and large and well established religions. We should not be quick to allow religious freedom to a religion that still, in the 21st century, passes death sentences by stoning,for a woman found to have committed adultery. I hope I didn't post too much here, but I take this matter very seriously,because it's in my city,the one I love
@NYatheist ...I have to add one more point. What I saw on the news today was a reporter asking construction workers if they would agree to participate on the mosque project. And it appears the majority are firmly saying no. And also the companies that sell the building materials are also talking about boycotting by refusing to sell to them. So they might not be able to build the thing as a result of no, or very little help from any American laborers and suppliers.
@gracistabu Yeah that's so funny you fucking dick. Please stick your argument about how the buildings fell straight up your ass. You mean there aren't Muslims that hate the USA?You can tell me that 9/11 was done by whoever/however you want, it doesn't change the fact that Muslims are currently moving to the West in droves and want to convert people to Islam,and they hate the West. People can say the USA did things to deserve our enemies,It still doesn't change that we have to fight our enemies.
@NYatheist Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. Dude seriously you have no fucking clue what is going on. Ya our enemies are Muslim immigrants not the out of control government police state that actually orchestrated this charade war on terror to strip us (literally with body scanners) of our rights. I'm gonna have to say its been the government for the past several decades that has done a lot more harm than any Muslims. Your argument is so idiotic. Seriously. Grow up a little.
@ashane77 Yeah it does make sense if you pay attention to all that I wrote, which included their desire to change the place that they hate. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't even so called moderate Muslims think their god wants Islam to prevail globallly?That's the crux of the matter, they are coming not to just enjoy freedom here but to spread Islam, which doesn't respect people's freedom to not be Islamic.Check history,it's full of either a religion or a nation desiring to have a world empire
OK, so EVERY single Muslim (what about the ones already here who inherited or converted to Islam?) who moves here does so soley out of a desire to force their religion onto us? Does Christianity NOT teach that their god is the only 'true' god--as just about EVERY religion does? Wasn't it CHRISTIAN nations that tried to conquer the world? And, for the most part today, CHRISTIAN nations (esp. the USA) which are the most aggressive?
@ashane77 Yes, I think all religions act that way and I am against all religions for that reason. You may have noticed from my name that I am atheist. But even many theists that dont belong to a religion, agree organized religion is a very bad thing and leads to these movements of greed and power on a global scale. It usually takes a person thinking there is a god that wants them to dominate the world with his true message via their particular religion, that leads to all this horrible violence.
@NYatheist You say them coming here doesn't respect peoples' freedom to not be Islamic. That's bullshit! No one is forcing ppl to believe. Incredibly false logic.
@ashane77 I should also ask you: But isn't it true they are moving to the West? You can argue with me about their motives, but that they are coming to live in the West is undeniable, it's an obvious fact. I see Muslims living everywhere now, and that is something that started in recent years, they didn't always want to live in other places, and probably because their religion said they should not live with the infidel. But Allah can't pay the bills, so they are moving to places with at least ...
@NYatheist at least a decent economy. You have to wonder where the money is coming from to build a $100 million project in such a bad world economy. It should make anyone pause and think.
@ashane77 You're argument is that since the USA govt has done seriously wrong things, therefore I and every American have to let our enemies do whatever they want to us. That is obviously a moronic argument. The solution is for Americans to be more involved in politics and pay much more attention to what out gov't does. The solution is not to say out of guilt and shame we just allow to happen whatever our enemies decide to do. The mosque is a nonissue?
prevent me from engaging in peaceful economic activities
tell me what I can and can't consume
prevent me from owning real estate
attempt to impose THEIR idea of morality on me
You're moronically throwing around terms like "our enemies" (who is "our"?) and "American" as if they mean anything. Sorry, but I'm not on "your" side.
@ashane77 Also on your other claims. You said the NYC gov't wastes 10s of millions, what do they waste it on? That's a different question from where the money comes from and the answer to that is obvious:taxes. The US govt also borrows money from China. Its bad to borrow and run up a huge debt but that is a whole other discussion. Are you saying the people in prison and on parole are all innocent, sure some people are wrongly convicted, but most did commit a crime. So what should be done with...
@NYatheist with them if not prison? It's people's absurd misunderstanding of what America is that leads to so much crime. People al want to be rich, so they steal from others if they can't earn it. Adding Islam to American culture wont be a solution, it will probably only make things much more complicated. It surely wont reduce the prison population or teach the American govt to not throw its weight around in the middle east.
So, money stolen through taxes is OK, but private donations to build a Muslim center aren't?
RE: prison: A HELL of a lot of folks are in prison/on parole simply for disobeying govt, and not for damaging anyone else. How much sense does it make to FORCE society to pay the enormous costs of housing/feeding/caring for prisoners? Why is SOCIETY punished--through taxes--for the crimes of others?
@ashane77 Druggies tend to fry their brains. If you take 100 such druggies at random, how many do you suppose take state aid? All of them, perhaps? MORE IMPORTANTLY, the rest of us have take care of THEIR children (if you're stoned out of your mind, how likely are you to practice safe sex?) because they certainly won't. In which case, is it really the State who is initiating force or is it the people making themselves a burden in the fashion I described?
@ashane77 Yes everyone should be free, even free to burden others! If I bite someone's jugular vein and suck the blood out because the media tells me vampires are cool, I should be allowed to do that. Because people who burden others deserve freedom too!
@ashane77 Then don't complain when the government taxes you to care for druggies who can't care for themselves. Don't complain when the government uses YOUR money to care for THEIR children. Don't complain when a druggie steals your stuff to fund his habit!
How am I legally or morally responsible for another person's:
1. Misfortune
2. Poor decisions
3. Short-comings...?
I like how you imply that, somehow, I'M at fault for people making bad decisions...or for the victims of abuse/crime. If you really believe I'm responsible for actions other than my own then you're fucked in the head.
@ashane77 Well you seem to sanction the poor decisions and shortcomings of people if these are drug-related. Because if people are prevented from consuming drugs, there will be a lot less poor decisions and shortcomings. But you oppose the government taking such preventive measures.
But I'm tell you what. Get the druggies to renounce state aid and I'll support their right to consume whatever they want!
@ashane77 And by calling people insane you will convince them to renounce loyalty to the government and to their nation. With epithets and insults, you make anarcho-capitalists out of the people you talk to. Brilliant!
You ARE insane since you think I'm responsible for others' actions!
Oh and another thing: laws which prohibit drug use/possession criminalize EVERYONE who violates said laws--whether they're irresponsible or not. You seem ignorant of the ways these kinds of laws lead to people being preyed upon and harrassed by the state.
The govt. isn't taking care of "druggies" because druggies demand it--its because people like YOU demand it. YOU should renounce this idiocy.
@ashane77 So if a crack whore goes on Social Security due to "drug-related disability", I have the right to get my share of that tax money back as a refund instead of the money going to her?
@ashane77 Socsec is a prime example of how most people both contribute to and receive proceeds from the public treasury. However with people who fry their brains with drugs, it's about receiving proceeds and not at all about contributing. If government workers who pipe water to homes, pave roads and take criminals off the street are parasites, then how much more parasitical are those whose claim to government funds is that they burned themselves out with narcotics?
@ashane77 Oh and another thing, preventive measures don't make EVERYONE a criminal; rather they target people who are irresponsible--99.99999% of whom turn to the government when they can't take the consequences of their actions. So again, let's let the druggies fry their brains so long as they renounce government aid!
What do you really know about Islam and its history? How much have you studied it? How is it significantly different from Christianity? How many INDIVIDUAL people who practice Islam do you know? Can you read every single one of their minds?
AGAIN: Why in THE HELL would "they" move here to the West if they HATED (hate is a pretty F'ing strong word isn't it?) it so much?
Is that why the English settlers came here? The Irish, German, Italian, and Mexican immigrants?
@ashane77 Many of the European settlers came here, history says they didn't care about the native population that lived here. They forced their European ways of life on them and ended up killing many of them that refused. What I know of Islam is they have a way of life much different from and unacceptable by Western standards, such as making women dress a certain way, and they still have death sentences for things like adultery. I don't like Christianity either, I think all religion is crazy.
@NYatheist And you argument that them hating the West means they wouldn't want to come here and change it makes no sense. People want to get rif of or change what they hate. Yeah if they really believed there was a god to do it, they would stay where they are and let their god do it. But most theists behave in such a way that shows they know there are only humans to make change in this world. So they talk of a god that will punish,etc But in the end it is they that have to bring their beliefs..
@Garrys300 Sorry I don't run out of breath from typing, maybe the problem is you have such a short attention span that one person posting as much as I did seems like some exausting endurance event to you. My handlers? What the motherfuck? Are you some paranoid whackjob or what? I hope you don't appear later, your commentary is so lame it makes the other twat (gracistabu) look interesting. All you guys that think 9/11 is just another thing to troll about need a good punch to your retarded face.
@NYatheist do you ever think about what u write ........or do u just open your mouth and bleat? too much cab exhaust for you i'm afraid my friend.you mind is all cloudy
@Garrys300 Yeah I think about it. I just meditated for a whole hour about this response to you and all I could come up with after calm and clear reflection is that you one very boring and annoying asshole on YT that should just piss off and let the adults try to communicate about something that matters
The attacks of 9/11 were not of "Islamic" origin. According to former Italian President Francesco Cossiga, former head of German intelligence Andreas Von Bulow, former head of Pakistani ISI Hamid Gul, Former head of US Army War College Dr. Alan Sabrosky, and many others, the 9/11 attacks were run by the American CIA and Israeli Mossad. In fact the 19 patsies who were blamed for it were not even Muslim, but binge drinking, coke-snorting, prostitute chasing hoodlums. Very "unIslamic" behavior.
@SeeingThingsClearly Tru dat but it seems like most people really can't confront the hard core facts and are a lot more comfortable sticking to the ridiculous MSM/history book/religious arguments.
@SeeingThingsClearly Hamid Gul was in tight with the Taliban. So of course, he'd wish to evade responsibility for the consequences of his actions. Which begs the question of what those other people's motives were...
@MrHappy702 Yah, a Jewish temple at ground zero would be more controversial than a Mosque or Islamic center because the Israeli Mossad was behind 9/11.
@SeeingThingsClearly Oh yeah I know that, but shhh youre going to push all the stupid liberals that whatch Stef's videos out of their conmfort zone. Just let them continue to watch television. Life is much easier for them that way. You tell me who you can't speak negatively about in a socieity and I'll show you who's in charge.
So you want the same standard to be applied to du'at (spreaders of Islam) and to missionaries (spreaders of Christianity)? Well in Iraq the insurgents kill missionaries. You have said nothing about this. Will you likewise stay silent about (the less aggressive) opposition to the Ground Zero mosque? Oh wait! Too late for that! Oh well!
@ashane77 But there is a double standard insofar as one event (opposition to the Ground Zero mosque) is seen by Stef as worth mentioning whereas another event (the murder of missionaries) is not seen as mentioning!
No, it isn't a double-standard since Stef's ideas on religion, private property, aggression, and the role (or lack therof) of the state are consistent and out there for the world to see.
Pointing out the hypocrisy of conservatives and the MSM is not equivalent to being a hypocrite one's self.
I noticed that YOU haven't mentioned or condemned the murders/crimes committed by the USGovt and its allies...does that mean you're a hypocrite who sanctions murder/crime?
@ashane77 For some reason people are against a center for the religion that told Bin Laden to do what he did. That SYMPATHY with the VICTIM is condemnable for Stef but he doesn't bother to address the fact that the Islamists kill Christian preachers? Remember America does NOT kill Muslim preachers UNLESS they are ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN TERRORISM a la Anwar Awlaki!
@HiddenAuthor Oh and BTW when Islamists attack synagogues in the West Bank and Gaza and churches throughout the Middle East, that's terrorism and Stef has made it clear that he views terrorism as a PREDICTABLE REACTION to American policy. Well then, could opposition to the Ground Zero Mosque be a PREDICTABLE REACTION to Islamist policy?
Like I said, Stef's positions on religion, the state, and initiatory violence are well articulated and available for all to see.
Just because he isn't actively condemning EACH and EVERY specific act of violence committed in the world doesn't mean he is being inconsistent or giving tacit approval to them.
"Muslims" aren't killing anyone, INDIVIDUALS who label themselves such are (just like SOME "Americans" murder) which doesn't make ALL who label themselves such responsible.
@ashane77 It is debatable whether or not the invasion of 9-11 was in the interest of America. I'd say no. But whether or not 9-11 was in the interest of Islam, that issue is debatable only if you ignore the fact that Mohammed killed whole tribes of men (well, at least one) and sold their women and children into slavery. If that is terrorism, then why would it be Islamically forbidden for bin Laden to commit terrorism today?
Some of the retarded conservaTURD stuff I'm reading about this "outrage"...my gosh these people are batshit insane on top of being utter hypocrites and ignoramuses!
What I don't get is how these "Patriot Uncle Tom's" can blame Muslim terrorists for the attacks on 9/11, but blame the same group for the collateral damage from our own cruise missiles. Absolutely sick. It's like people don't care about truth in the face of fear and servitude.
The Muslims build a victory mosque on places they have Conquered. That is why we hate the idea of a Muslim center at ground zero.
FriendofCat 3 months ago
I don’t buy this analogy. You are able to be a pacifist because there are tough men willing to fight to keep you from having to protect yourself and your own family from violence. The perfect world you desire is not possible, not anytime soon unfortunately. Would you prefer to live in a Muslim State, or America? One is not perfect, but is much less the criminal than the other. Comparing the two is asinine. Moral Relativism will not bring about the change you seek.
RightWinger1776 5 months ago
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Muslims didn't do 9/11. Muslims didn't do 9/11. Muslims didn't do 9/11. Muslims didn't do 9/11. Muslims didn't do 9/11. Muslims didn't do 9/11. Muslims didn't do 9/11. Muslims didn't do 9/11. Muslims didn't do 9/11. Muslims didn't do 9/11.
Figure if I repeat myself enough time's it'll sink in. 9/11 was staged BY THIS GOVERNMENT. IT WAS A DECLARATION OF WAR AGAINST YOU ...SCHMUCK
wisdomtrek 6 months ago
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wisdomtrek 6 months ago
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Stefan Molynuex deserves to be compensated for being your target this year.
Please make any donation possible at freedomain radio dot calm.
eyejudgeeverything 1 year ago
Another question that we aught to ask is if there would be the same amount of outrage if this were a Christian or Jewish facility instead of an Islamic facility.
vanni9283 1 year ago
@vanni9283
No there wouldn't, but why should there be? The hijackers were of the same faith, thus the building of this structure there and the structure in an of itself is actually quite a mockery, and a sick one at that... how people don't see this is beyond me.
regresseur 1 year ago
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Freedomain Radio and Stefan Molyneux provides some of the clearest, logical analysis and critique of our contemporary world I've ever come across in my 45 years on this forsaken rock in space. Thank you. Please vote for Freedomain Radio at podcastawards com. under two categories 1) People Choice Award and 2) Education. Be sure to check your email address to validate your vote. (Voting ends Tuesday December 15th 2010)
eyejudgeeverything 1 year ago
I know its just the daily show but jon stewart had their mayor on the show and he didnt care so neither do I
homevidman1000 1 year ago
Let them build it!!! I would let them build it! And then about a month or so after they open for buissness I would go in there with the special forces or even better with the family members of 9/11 and ass rape,torture,behead every one of those muslim dogs!!!! please build it ?
nikz3777 1 year ago
Apples and Oranges. Not one of your better efforts. Pick up a copy of the Qur'an and the Hadith by al-Bukhari and compare with the teachings of Christ. Does this mean that people have not done bad things to promote Christianity? Not at all. The difference is that this is the approved MO of Islam.
steve0281 1 year ago
great video stef. update...I just LOVED when FOX News railed against the mosque. then they came out with their "Follow the Funding" tactic for getting people to side with them against the muslim community center. The #1 funder is a Saudi Prince who is the majority stockholder in FOX's parent company. i laughed so hard i cried for lack of air.
IAmTheUnknownPunk 1 year ago
thank you stef as always, on the money
TheZoider 1 year ago
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since when did two wrongs make a right.
lendusaquid 1 year ago
Actually, the US hasn't done jack for the Christians of Iraq. Policy there has been based on finding accommodation with the powers that be, & those powers are Muslim. Similarly, the US hasn't shown concern over the hard lot of Christians in Egypt or Turkey.
loupgarou5z3w 1 year ago
Please Google "Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe" which is an unchallenged peer reviewed study by Dr Steven Jones et al.
"In short, the paper explodes the official story that 'no evidence' exists for explosive/pyrotechnic materials in the WTC buildings."
The red/gray chips are the "loaded gun" of 9-11."
-- Dr. Steven Jones
Muslim extremists could not have had access to either the technology, expertise or the buildings that would be needed
pimpdarlin 1 year ago
Great point but its not the fact that its against the Constitution for them to put their community center there. Its just very disrespectful to the people that lost their lives and the family members who lost a loved one in that tragedy. The Muslims that committed the crime are devout Muslims and their god is telling them to do so. So we're going to let them worship the god that told them to attack America on September eleventh on the same grounds? It just doesnt make sense.
rtgoodell 1 year ago
@rtgoodell
"The Muslims that committed the crime are devout Muslims and their god is telling them to do so. "
No no no. You took the bait thrown at you by the war and fear mongering agenda-media. This was not a "islamic attack", and no act of someones religion at all. Maybe a strong faith in a afterlife "helped" them in some way to do so. But this was completely politically motivated terrorism, not an act of their religion.
aerobique 1 year ago
@rtgoodell
"Its just very disrespectful to the people that lost their lives and the family members who lost a loved one in that tragedy."
Again...
Do you know that a lot of muslims were also killed on 9/11 working in the trade centers? Do you know that the "mosque" is no mosque but a community center with basketball court, a libary and a swimming pool? and that there are christian, and jewish prayer rooms included?
This anti-muslim hype is "psy-ops" to eradicate empathy with iraq and afg.
aerobique 1 year ago 8
@rtgoodell ......It may not make sense for you.
But the ''DEVOUT MUSLIMS'' who committed the crime were either buried down alive by B-22 in AFG or tortured to death in Guitmo, so they no longer exist.
Does this makes sense now???? hypocrite
ingehs 1 year ago
Yes Stef, but the towers & WTC7 were brought down by controlled demolition, & over 1200 architects now support this view.
Another point I would bring to your attention is that the Imam who is fronting this staged media outrage is a member of the Council Of Foreign Relations.
This is media manipulation. Punch & Judy show.
wwwdotinfowarsdotcom/ground-zero-mosque-imam-is-globalist-stooge/
pimpdarlin 1 year ago
@pimpdarlin
"1200 architects now support this view."
I dont know much about the 911 truth movement there.. but a lot of people also claim continously that "32.000 world leading scientist" would disagree with man made climate change because some lobbyist promoted it on fox noise. And i must say- in this case these are all irresponsible PR-campaigns based on lies.
By the way i will upload a clip soon with nyfd pictures that show (a bit) how extremely destroyed wtc7 was before it collapsed.
aerobique 1 year ago
@aerobique
So you have nothing to say
Please watch 'Blueprint For Truth' by Richard Gage of Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth.
Specifically, the overwhelming evidence of controlled demolition:
1. NIST itself admits that WTC fell at free fall speed for 2.5 seconds THROUGH THE PATH OF GREATEST RESISTANCE. This is not explained, or indeed possible, through fire alone.
2. Pools of molten iron underneath all three towers, confirmed by multiple sources & NASA imaging. Impossible.
Inform urself
pimpdarlin 1 year ago
@pimpdarlin
"Inform urself"
i did and i know all these "evidences" - otherwise i would shut up
i speculated about thermit/thermate by the way long before niels harrit came up with the popular "nano-thermite" speculations
Im with you, but i think there is too much crap and hysterical misinformation around there, thats my point. Lets stop here, its all off topic.
aerobique 1 year ago
@aerobique
cool...
do you really still believe in man made global warming? ;o)
you're a dying breed!
bless ya!
pimpdarlin 1 year ago
@pimpdarlin
i dont "believe" -i know- what reliable science tells us - period
the believers are dudes like you
aerobique 1 year ago
This makes me absolutely angry that people are protesting the mosque being built. I am not a Muslim, but why are we even debating this. As a Christian, I would be absolutely outraged that a cathedral couldn't be built all because of the actions of the KKK. People are crying and hold up signs saying "Don't betray the honor of those who died..." SCREW YOU! Some of those people who died and fought to save lives were Muslim! How dare ppl be such hypocrites!
PhantomLyric 1 year ago
@PhantomLyric
Well said. This is exactly the point many people are failing to understand. One cannot blame one group of people for the crimes of another group simply because they share the same religion. If I walked into a mall and shot the place up killing hundreds of people and claimed that I did it in the name of Buddhism, does that now mean that all Buddhists share culpability? Of course not.
Textra1 1 year ago
@Textra1 And techically, a radical muslim would never consider doing harm so close to a mosque. People should think about it that way because if something were to happen, that would be the safest place to be! Islamic extremist don't kill for the sport of just to be mean, they absolutely believe it necessary to win the favor of Allah/God so they would never put the mosque in jeopardy. It is holy gorund. If one were built right next to the World Trade, it would probably still be up.
PhantomLyric 1 year ago
why would you invade another country steal their resources and murder the population, build your churches there and then allow them to do the same to you? come on! you must of missed the empire building classes at school!
dikkydoo1 1 year ago
@dikkydoo1 That's just it. Muslims have been in this country for centuries! And the misconception is that anyone who is of the Islamic faith is either a terrorist of from another country. WRONG! People are bringing on a unheavenly Holy war and they simply don't know it yet. Revelations is coming head strong but these bigoted idiots just don't realize they are playing a huge part in its coming! No on like to talk about the Christian terrorism that goes on in that same region.
PhantomLyric 1 year ago
Timothy Mcveigh was roman catholic..he committed one of the worst terrorist attacks in united states history..do you think theres opposition in oklahoma city to roman catholic churches?
Debatewithme 1 year ago
Pat Condell puts the counter-position to the one you espouse here:
watch?v=oJQ4bwGPRuk
His previous vid on this topic scored over 4 million hits. Pat sees the issue as one of Bismarckian realpolitik, whereas you see it (I think) as one which the prime issue should be logical consistency. You give arguments priority according to whether the principles on which they are founded are useful in other circumstances and occasions. How would YOU epitomise the differences between your position and his?
Myrmecia 1 year ago
stef, i think yer an extremely intelligent man, and have been a big fan of yers since i stumbled across yer channel... with that said,idk how you could possibly still believe these were islamic attacks... considering all the loose ends in the official story, the contradictions, leftout testimonies of witnesses and experts in their respective fields, and the fact that the only ones to truly benefit from these attacks were the neocons and their business partners... but, i still love you man. lol
ott0Kitam 1 year ago
Islamic attack... Please, talk about swallowing propaganda hook line and sinker!
qui3tude 1 year ago
Steph "Islamic attacks" , Do you have convincing proof? Many of us doubt it . There are inconsistencies in the official story.
HelmetBlissta 1 year ago
Or better yet, is anyone asking the question of whether the United States built a largely Christian nation after eliminating all the natives in the area while on their own religious quest for independence? Certainly the Muslims have an equal privilege to build their community center, so it seems that what it really comes down to is lay people trying to come to terms with their willingness to use coercion to enforce their view on the world - whether by contesting Muslims or pushing Christianity.
themasteriswatching 1 year ago
I don't care where "Americans" build churches. I just don't want islam to spread even more.
MigDanskeren 1 year ago
@MigDanskeren No more churches, no more synagogues, no more mosques. Tax organized religion build schools.
hawklord2001 1 year ago
@hawklord2001
I 100% agree. And I also believe that even muslims have the right to build a mosque on their own property. I just wish that they wouldn't.
MigDanskeren 1 year ago
@hawklord2001 Does the government tax the Freemasons or country clubs? Why would you require people to pay the government for the privilege of associating with one another?
HiddenAuthor 1 year ago
@HiddenAuthor Churches divde people and indoctrnate children with a false information. They do not deserve a tax exempt status. If a church can prove it has a program to benefit the community then give them a non profit status.
hawklord2001 1 year ago
@hawklord2001 False information? Like God exists? You know if the government decided that "God exists" is false information, that would count as establishment of religion which is against the constitution. Because the statement "God exists" is a religious issue and government decisions on religious issues are described by the Constitution as "establishment of religion"!
HiddenAuthor 1 year ago
@HiddenAuthor Gov'ts already sanction religions by giving them a tax exempt status thereby putting the gov't in the position of choosing what cult qualifies as a religion and which ones don't.
hawklord2001 1 year ago
@hawklord2001 The government does not interfere with religion. After all, can you name one religion which the government refused tax exemption to?
HiddenAuthor 1 year ago
I am more mad about American belief that they have a right to behave in same barbaric ways as Taliban does. What is the agenda of American society? Is it that Americans can only be enjoying freedom if they are Christian or does any human being has right to have say as how they live their life. I am actually discussed by morality that is taking place in America. The entire world looks up to them and they choose the path that decimates human evolution.
sano0311 1 year ago
@sano0311 How many Afghan civilians have been killed by the American military anyway? Not counting the civilians who hid fighters or used their babies as camoflauge for the terrorists...
HiddenAuthor 1 year ago
@HiddenAuthor
Thank you for being perfect example for my previous post.
sano0311 1 year ago
@sano0311 Name one thing I said that was not consistent with truth and justice!
HiddenAuthor 1 year ago
I'm not for religions, I hate them all, but the bombing of iraq was not EXPLICITLY done for christian reasons, whatever the real reasons were.
The iraqis were told the attack was a US and UK political attack, not as a christian or remotely Jesus-based attack.
9/11 was explicitly religious.
So there's a difference.
I still think there shouldn't be any evangelising or church building though.
natmanprime 1 year ago
@natmanprime how the fuck was 9-11 explicity religous? did you buy the crap about them hating us for our freedom? it was as political as they come. the reasons given was american presence in the middle east and support for israel. why can't people like you get that through your heads??
libanlibanliban 1 year ago
@libanlibanliban Well golly gee, I guess you weren't around when the Islamists attacked people for drawing an image of Mohammed!
HiddenAuthor 1 year ago
@HiddenAuthor Way to muddy the waters and strawman me. Answer the points I addressed or shut the fuck up retard, I won't allow you to put words in my mouth.
libanlibanliban 1 year ago
@libanlibanliban Well you can make this a pissing contest by calling me a retard. Or you can put two and two together and realize that the same networks of people responsible for 9-11 are responsible for attacking people for dissing their religion. Everything they do has a religious motive. If the Americans were Muslims, al-Qaeda would not care about their presence in the Middle East. Bigotry associated with religion is at the core of al-Qaeda.
HiddenAuthor 1 year ago
@HiddenAuthor
Yes and I guess you were not there when Fox News accepted money from Saudi princ. Only TV network that allows dumb people to make up story as they go. Their most reliable news source is Google. I can't believe this. If Muslims have for centuries respected wishes of their prophet not being idolized as God why the hell do nut cases have to provoke Muslims for no reason. Look up tolerance in dictionary it might help you.
sano0311 1 year ago
@sano0311 Yes satire is not very nice. But if South Park cartoonists can draw Jesus, then why should people ignore it when terrorists attack them for drawing Mohammed? Because it isn't like South Park's portrayal of Jesus is not a satire as well...
HiddenAuthor 1 year ago
@HiddenAuthor Thanks, buddy. I think these kids are loathe to click on wiki, etc.
natmanprime 1 year ago
@libanlibanliban When someone suicides himself, and he's of the muslim faith, there's religion involved.
Remember I said explicit.
I'm sure Osama mentioned religion somewhere, didn't he? somthing about jihad. Now I'm sure you're right about the politics of it.
I just think religion (jews, Xtians, Muslims) are at least part of the whole damn thing, so you should NOT be building another motherf@#king RELIGIOUS BUILDING at GROUND MOTHERF@#KING ZERO!!!
It's just stirring up shit
natmanprime 1 year ago
Raising the ire of the US citizens is just a simple ploy to get them to support more endless war against their fellow men.
aghoranathi 1 year ago
Great vid Stef! I think it important to mention the US built a monument to its government on land that was sacred to American Indians. The Black Hills, where Mount Rushmore is, was sacred ground for the Lakota Sioux that lived there for hundreds of years before the US government just up and took it. That seems way worse than a mosque on private property.
freemariner 1 year ago 8
@freemariner an excellent point, thank you so much for bringing it up!
stefbot 1 year ago
@stefbot At first, I actually thought you were hinting towards something related to the native amercians, stef XD.
dopejoel 1 year ago
@stefbot Great argument. Your last video I watched(salvation of philosophy part 2) was not very well constructed, at least argument in the middle. But this video is superb. Just brilliant and shows the complete hypocrisy of those that want to restrict freedoms based on how they "feel" and not even dare extend that courtesy to any other group they happen not to agree with.
thesparitan 6 months ago
@freemariner great point, man.
dopejoel 1 year ago
@freemariner American Indians in that part of South Dakota are, in my opinion, being marginalized. I was stationed close to Rapid City and was told not to visit Reservations or engage with the local inhabitants. Sounds like segregation still exists, only suppressed. I was also unaware of Mount Rushmore's history. Thank you for sharing.
Jbarrtndrsr 1 year ago
Let's see, you're saying that their use of jets to destroy the World Trade Center, and attempt to destroy the Pentagon, using religion as their justification, is morally equivalent to our army unleashing on Saddam Hussein and destroying his secular tyranny? Sorry, I don't see the comparison. The REAL culprit is a religion, Islam, that teaches it's a person's RIGHT to KILL another person based upon that other person's faith. Islam is a cult, not a religion.
captaindiesalot 1 year ago
I'd rather patriarchal religion left the United States altogether. We have enough as it is, I don't want more coming. Especially a patriarchal religion that at its very core advocates the abuse of and subjugation of women, one whose very name is translated as "Submission". No thank you.
shaudee67 1 year ago
I'm sure you can understand why people would feel so angry though. After all, it's the same emotional outrage (toned down by many orders of magnitude, of course) that Muslims must be feeling about American occupations and murders in the Middle East. I guess this is just a reiteration of your essential point in a slightly different light.
TortoiseDream 1 year ago
@stefbot,
Although you rightfully raise questions at the motivation behind wars started by the US...i still think you are happy you are not living in a country with sharia law, right?
DeArmeStudent 1 year ago
Nor do they ask if it's ok to build a church near the site of Dr. tiller's murder.
Avocada99 1 year ago
I like your shorter videos. They are more effective.
chifylube 1 year ago
How did Lucky Larry Silverstein have the clairvoyance to purchase insurance against terror attacks weeks before the 'attack'?
What happened to the 'dancing Israeli's who were caught dressed up as arabs on 9/11 and their van tested positive for explosives?
Why did bldg 7 which wasn't hit by any airplane collapse in a manner consistent with controlled demolition (as did wtc 1&2)?
Why does stef shill and for whom?
Gromitdog1 1 year ago
To learn why we invaded Iraq watch Robert Newman's History of Oil.
The bottom line is Hussein took Iraq off the dollar standard.
Buffalo122333 1 year ago
1. 9-11 was an inside job by anglos (blamed on muslim extremists).
2. its a ploy to continue division and hatred.
3. christians building churches in iraq is tacky, but not as tacky as the us military installing permanent bases. the mosque near ground zero is the least tacky of the three. but barely.
religious nutsacks of all stripes have gobs of money to build ostentatious monuments to their violent ideologies... why not build an effing charity hospital or something else useful?
immayhem 1 year ago
@immayhem A few anglos were involved, but Zionist Jews were the main perpetrators of 9/11. The Anglo establishments are largely puppets of Zionist Jewry and their lobby organizations in Anglo countries. Google: Israel did 9/11, Dancing Israelis.
SeeingThingsClearly 1 year ago
@SeeingThingsClearly I don't care what religion they claim to be (Jewish, whatever...) or of what political creed (Zionist) - that's not what I said.
They're Anglos.
immayhem 1 year ago
@immayhem That seems like a cop-out. You don't care? If 85% of the conspirators are Jewish and/or Israeli than that would seem to be quite a coincidence don't you think? Jews are not Anglos, iin fact that are competitors to Anglos which is why they seek to control all Anglo countries through their various Lobbyist organisations.
SeeingThingsClearly 1 year ago
@SeeingThingsClearly Judaism is not a race. It's a religion. There is no such thing as a Jewish race. Jews are either more Semitic (same genetic markers as Arabs, Persians, etc.) or they are eastern European Anglos or other races (like the Jews in Ethiopia)... but let me repeat it - Jews are not a race unto themselves. You or I could convert to Judaism tomorrow and we'd be Jews. People of all races have converted to Judaism for millennia.
Israeli is a nationality - like 'American'.
immayhem 1 year ago
@immayhem Jews are an ethnicity as well as a religion. An atheist named Jack Goldstein, or Arthur Rosenbaum is still considered a Jew. Gentiles who convert to Judaism are not necessarily considered a Jew by most Jews. Not a 'proper' one.
SeeingThingsClearly 1 year ago
@SeeingThingsClearly Quite Incorrect. Any 'ethnicity' that Jews claim is shared (either with Arabs, or with eastern Europeans or others). The people you mentioned have Jewish religious and cultural heritage, but racially, they could be entirely different from one another. My last name is Irish, but I'm not racially Irish. Most black people I know have very UN-African last names. It doesn't make them any less African. There is NO Jewish race. Maybe in another 1,000 years.
immayhem 1 year ago
@SeeingThingsClearly
Dude, Judaism (i.e., being a "Jew") is a RELIGION...just like there is no Christian "race", there is no Jewish race, unless one recognizes a VERY broad definition of "race". Israel refers to nationality too, not race. Just like there is no American "race" there is no Israeli race.
ashane77 1 year ago 3
@SeeingThingsClearly
The very notion of "race" is a little tricky to begin with. People w/comparitively darker skin and eyes which are more slanted obviously stand out from those w/lighter skin and rounder eyes, but outside of that determining "race" at a glance isn't very easy to do. I guess genetics could be used to determine which people are more closely related, but who really cares?
ashane77 1 year ago
@immayhem In fact the Anglos directed their Muslim agents to attack on that day. And why? In order to justify attacks on their Muslim agents! Really how much sense does that make?
HiddenAuthor 1 year ago
once again the american people have shown the world just how gullible and stupid they really are.The govt is fighting 2 wars( and thinking of starting another) that they can not ever possibly win.The economy is still in the dumps and all you dumbs fucks can think about is "Obamas a muslim I just know he is " and a fuckin community centre.Hard to believe that in the 21st century mythical religions still have a death grip on the gullible fucking religious idiots that dwell among us
Garrys300 1 year ago
I guess that whole Freedom of Religion thing is out.
timsartsite 1 year ago
@timsartsite ........no ......you are still free to worship any christian or jewish deity of your choosing
Garrys300 1 year ago
since when is bush a Muslim or do you believe a load of hikes from Muslim land done 9 11
sirhcelah 1 year ago
I mean the whole thing is moot once you realize 9-11 was an inside job. This whole mosque at ground zero is just another attempt to get people to hate and fear Muslims "because of 9-11" when the whole idea of 9-11 being some kind of religious attack by "fundamentalist Muslims" is a complete lie just like the WMDs and everything else coming from the government. Explain to me again how Islam caused the only steel frame concrete buildings in history to collapse free fall from fires?
gracistabu 1 year ago
Ron Paul 2012
LibertyPoet
website
legalizeliberty 1 year ago
If it turns out this mosque/community center actually will promote militant Islam, is that ok? Of course they wont advertise it, but it may go on there behind closed doors. It's two blocks away because that's the closest place available, they would get closer to GZ if they could. All the talk of them having a swimming pool and a culinary school there doesn't change the possibility of the place having a very dark side. And mentioning hypocricy of American Christians building churches in Iraq.....
NYatheist 1 year ago
@NYatheist ...in Iraq, seems to be an argument of saying 2 wrongs make a right. The GZ mosque is ok since some Christinas are being equally obnoxious with the placement of their church somewhere? That appears to be a terrible argument in favor of the mosque. A key question is who will fund the construction, it's estimated it will cost $100 million since it will be quite large, 13 floors if I recall correctly. So if we allow a place that is an indoctrination center for more miltancy, how.........
NYatheist 1 year ago
@NYatheist how foolish is that? It's not as if 9/11 is considered the end of the USA's enemies desire to attack the USA. Some say 9/11 might just be their first attack, and they have more barbaric plans. That means Americans need to take very seriously the expansion of Islam in our country, since it may amount to our enemies setting up covert military bases in our land. I can already hear the ''conspiracy theory'' buzzword bullshit from somein reaction to that, but that's the sort of war......
NYatheist 1 year ago
@NYatheist ...war they will fight. A very covert and hidden one, one meant to slowly but surely spread their influence and dramatically change the cultural environment. It wont manifest fully for many years, but when it does, who can say it wont be a serious problem? The time to prevent that is now. If religion gives people an automatic acceptance under the banner of ''religious freedom'' then any bizarre and openly religion should get the same protection and freedom, but they don't. We still...
NYatheist 1 year ago
@NYatheist ....still discriminate against a religion that shows at least some violent tendencies. Islam shouldn't get an automatic free pass because it's one of the old and large and well established religions. We should not be quick to allow religious freedom to a religion that still, in the 21st century, passes death sentences by stoning,for a woman found to have committed adultery. I hope I didn't post too much here, but I take this matter very seriously,because it's in my city,the one I love
NYatheist 1 year ago
@NYatheist ...I have to add one more point. What I saw on the news today was a reporter asking construction workers if they would agree to participate on the mosque project. And it appears the majority are firmly saying no. And also the companies that sell the building materials are also talking about boycotting by refusing to sell to them. So they might not be able to build the thing as a result of no, or very little help from any American laborers and suppliers.
NYatheist 1 year ago
@NYatheist How did building 7 collapse? Or would it be too uncomfortable for your small mind to ask that question?
gracistabu 1 year ago
@gracistabu......... It appears nyatheist ran out of breath, or maybe his handlers are dictating an answer to him ,which will appear later?
Garrys300 1 year ago
@Garrys300 Ya I was expecting a Popular Mechanics answer at best LOL
gracistabu 1 year ago
@gracistabu Yeah that's so funny you fucking dick. Please stick your argument about how the buildings fell straight up your ass. You mean there aren't Muslims that hate the USA?You can tell me that 9/11 was done by whoever/however you want, it doesn't change the fact that Muslims are currently moving to the West in droves and want to convert people to Islam,and they hate the West. People can say the USA did things to deserve our enemies,It still doesn't change that we have to fight our enemies.
NYatheist 1 year ago
@NYatheist Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. Dude seriously you have no fucking clue what is going on. Ya our enemies are Muslim immigrants not the out of control government police state that actually orchestrated this charade war on terror to strip us (literally with body scanners) of our rights. I'm gonna have to say its been the government for the past several decades that has done a lot more harm than any Muslims. Your argument is so idiotic. Seriously. Grow up a little.
gracistabu 1 year ago
@NYatheist
Yes, Muslims "hate the West" SO much that they're moving here "in droves"...that makes a lot of sense, doesn't it?
If I hated a place I sure as hell wouldn't move there...would you?
ashane77 1 year ago
@ashane77 Yeah it does make sense if you pay attention to all that I wrote, which included their desire to change the place that they hate. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't even so called moderate Muslims think their god wants Islam to prevail globallly?That's the crux of the matter, they are coming not to just enjoy freedom here but to spread Islam, which doesn't respect people's freedom to not be Islamic.Check history,it's full of either a religion or a nation desiring to have a world empire
NYatheist 1 year ago
@NYatheist
OK, so EVERY single Muslim (what about the ones already here who inherited or converted to Islam?) who moves here does so soley out of a desire to force their religion onto us? Does Christianity NOT teach that their god is the only 'true' god--as just about EVERY religion does? Wasn't it CHRISTIAN nations that tried to conquer the world? And, for the most part today, CHRISTIAN nations (esp. the USA) which are the most aggressive?
ashane77 1 year ago
@ashane77 Yes, I think all religions act that way and I am against all religions for that reason. You may have noticed from my name that I am atheist. But even many theists that dont belong to a religion, agree organized religion is a very bad thing and leads to these movements of greed and power on a global scale. It usually takes a person thinking there is a god that wants them to dominate the world with his true message via their particular religion, that leads to all this horrible violence.
NYatheist 1 year ago
@NYatheist
Religion is BS, yes, but the bigger problem is people not thinking for themselves.
ashane77 1 year ago
@NYatheist You say them coming here doesn't respect peoples' freedom to not be Islamic. That's bullshit! No one is forcing ppl to believe. Incredibly false logic.
PhantomLyric 1 year ago
@ashane77 I should also ask you: But isn't it true they are moving to the West? You can argue with me about their motives, but that they are coming to live in the West is undeniable, it's an obvious fact. I see Muslims living everywhere now, and that is something that started in recent years, they didn't always want to live in other places, and probably because their religion said they should not live with the infidel. But Allah can't pay the bills, so they are moving to places with at least ...
NYatheist 1 year ago
@NYatheist at least a decent economy. You have to wonder where the money is coming from to build a $100 million project in such a bad world economy. It should make anyone pause and think.
NYatheist 1 year ago
@NYatheist
Where are the TRILLION$ coming from to fund the USGovt?
The 100's of BILLION$ to fund its armies and pay off overseas 'allies' (many of them brutal dictatorships)?
Where do the 10's of MILLION$ that the govt of NYC wastes come from?
Why are millions of Americans in prison or on parole?
Why has the USGovt contributed to the deaths of 100's of THOUSANDS of middle-easterners and the suffering of MILLIONS more?
Why are you upset about this mosque non-issue?
ashane77 1 year ago
@ashane77 You're argument is that since the USA govt has done seriously wrong things, therefore I and every American have to let our enemies do whatever they want to us. That is obviously a moronic argument. The solution is for Americans to be more involved in politics and pay much more attention to what out gov't does. The solution is not to say out of guilt and shame we just allow to happen whatever our enemies decide to do. The mosque is a nonissue?
You mean you are sure what will be taught?
NYatheist 1 year ago
@NYatheist
MY enemies are the ones who:
take 50%+ of my livliehood
take my children from me for 12 years
prevent me from engaging in peaceful economic activities
tell me what I can and can't consume
prevent me from owning real estate
attempt to impose THEIR idea of morality on me
You're moronically throwing around terms like "our enemies" (who is "our"?) and "American" as if they mean anything. Sorry, but I'm not on "your" side.
ashane77 1 year ago
@ashane77 Also on your other claims. You said the NYC gov't wastes 10s of millions, what do they waste it on? That's a different question from where the money comes from and the answer to that is obvious:taxes. The US govt also borrows money from China. Its bad to borrow and run up a huge debt but that is a whole other discussion. Are you saying the people in prison and on parole are all innocent, sure some people are wrongly convicted, but most did commit a crime. So what should be done with...
NYatheist 1 year ago
@NYatheist with them if not prison? It's people's absurd misunderstanding of what America is that leads to so much crime. People al want to be rich, so they steal from others if they can't earn it. Adding Islam to American culture wont be a solution, it will probably only make things much more complicated. It surely wont reduce the prison population or teach the American govt to not throw its weight around in the middle east.
NYatheist 1 year ago
@NYatheist
So, money stolen through taxes is OK, but private donations to build a Muslim center aren't?
RE: prison: A HELL of a lot of folks are in prison/on parole simply for disobeying govt, and not for damaging anyone else. How much sense does it make to FORCE society to pay the enormous costs of housing/feeding/caring for prisoners? Why is SOCIETY punished--through taxes--for the crimes of others?
Another dumb statist non-solution.
ashane77 1 year ago
@ashane77 Druggies tend to fry their brains. If you take 100 such druggies at random, how many do you suppose take state aid? All of them, perhaps? MORE IMPORTANTLY, the rest of us have take care of THEIR children (if you're stoned out of your mind, how likely are you to practice safe sex?) because they certainly won't. In which case, is it really the State who is initiating force or is it the people making themselves a burden in the fashion I described?
HiddenAuthor 1 year ago
@HiddenAuthor
You regurgitate a bunch of nonsense about drugs and "druggies".
Anyone w/a brain should understand that prohibition doesn't work--just look at the DISASTEROUS American attempt to prohibit alcolhol.
This is the mindset of the statist: FREEDOM IS BAD.
ashane77 1 year ago
@ashane77 Yes everyone should be free, even free to burden others! If I bite someone's jugular vein and suck the blood out because the media tells me vampires are cool, I should be allowed to do that. Because people who burden others deserve freedom too!
HiddenAuthor 1 year ago
@HiddenAuthor That would be assault.
hawklord2001 1 year ago
@hawklord2001 Yes and druggies never assault people to support their habit?
HiddenAuthor 1 year ago
@HiddenAuthor If you are saying that religious belief is similar to drug addiction i agree.
hawklord2001 1 year ago
@HiddenAuthor
You doing drugs isn't a burden on me, just as you drinking alcohol isn't.
This latest tripe from you is more ridiculous than the last bit of nonesense you wrote.
ashane77 1 year ago
@ashane77 Then don't complain when the government taxes you to care for druggies who can't care for themselves. Don't complain when the government uses YOUR money to care for THEIR children. Don't complain when a druggie steals your stuff to fund his habit!
HiddenAuthor 1 year ago
@HiddenAuthor
How am I legally or morally responsible for another person's:
1. Misfortune
2. Poor decisions
3. Short-comings...?
I like how you imply that, somehow, I'M at fault for people making bad decisions...or for the victims of abuse/crime. If you really believe I'm responsible for actions other than my own then you're fucked in the head.
You have no argument, stfu and go away now.
ashane77 1 year ago
@ashane77 Well you seem to sanction the poor decisions and shortcomings of people if these are drug-related. Because if people are prevented from consuming drugs, there will be a lot less poor decisions and shortcomings. But you oppose the government taking such preventive measures.
But I'm tell you what. Get the druggies to renounce state aid and I'll support their right to consume whatever they want!
HiddenAuthor 1 year ago
@HiddenAuthor
Who says I sanction anyone's poor decisions? I merely said I'm not responsible for other people.
Your "preventive measures" turns EVERYONE into a criminal...that's a very dumb non-solution to a mostly non-problem.
I'll tell you what: Why don't YOU renounce YOUR support of dumb, statist non-solutions and leave me the hell alone?
Its amazing you assume the state has the moral authority to force ME to pay for OTHERS poor decisions in the first place...you're insane.
ashane77 1 year ago
@ashane77 And by calling people insane you will convince them to renounce loyalty to the government and to their nation. With epithets and insults, you make anarcho-capitalists out of the people you talk to. Brilliant!
HiddenAuthor 1 year ago
@HiddenAuthor
You ARE insane since you think I'm responsible for others' actions!
Oh and another thing: laws which prohibit drug use/possession criminalize EVERYONE who violates said laws--whether they're irresponsible or not. You seem ignorant of the ways these kinds of laws lead to people being preyed upon and harrassed by the state.
The govt. isn't taking care of "druggies" because druggies demand it--its because people like YOU demand it. YOU should renounce this idiocy.
ashane77 1 year ago
@ashane77 So if a crack whore goes on Social Security due to "drug-related disability", I have the right to get my share of that tax money back as a refund instead of the money going to her?
HiddenAuthor 1 year ago
@HiddenAuthor
The problem is that socsec exists in the first place and that the govt takes your moeny and gives it to someone else.
ashane77 1 year ago
@ashane77 Socsec is a prime example of how most people both contribute to and receive proceeds from the public treasury. However with people who fry their brains with drugs, it's about receiving proceeds and not at all about contributing. If government workers who pipe water to homes, pave roads and take criminals off the street are parasites, then how much more parasitical are those whose claim to government funds is that they burned themselves out with narcotics?
HiddenAuthor 1 year ago
@ashane77 Oh and another thing, preventive measures don't make EVERYONE a criminal; rather they target people who are irresponsible--99.99999% of whom turn to the government when they can't take the consequences of their actions. So again, let's let the druggies fry their brains so long as they renounce government aid!
HiddenAuthor 1 year ago
@NYatheist
What do you really know about Islam and its history? How much have you studied it? How is it significantly different from Christianity? How many INDIVIDUAL people who practice Islam do you know? Can you read every single one of their minds?
AGAIN: Why in THE HELL would "they" move here to the West if they HATED (hate is a pretty F'ing strong word isn't it?) it so much?
Is that why the English settlers came here? The Irish, German, Italian, and Mexican immigrants?
ashane77 1 year ago
@ashane77 Many of the European settlers came here, history says they didn't care about the native population that lived here. They forced their European ways of life on them and ended up killing many of them that refused. What I know of Islam is they have a way of life much different from and unacceptable by Western standards, such as making women dress a certain way, and they still have death sentences for things like adultery. I don't like Christianity either, I think all religion is crazy.
NYatheist 1 year ago
@NYatheist And you argument that them hating the West means they wouldn't want to come here and change it makes no sense. People want to get rif of or change what they hate. Yeah if they really believed there was a god to do it, they would stay where they are and let their god do it. But most theists behave in such a way that shows they know there are only humans to make change in this world. So they talk of a god that will punish,etc But in the end it is they that have to bring their beliefs..
NYatheist 1 year ago
@NYatheist .....Beliefs to other lands.
NYatheist 1 year ago
@Garrys300 Sorry I don't run out of breath from typing, maybe the problem is you have such a short attention span that one person posting as much as I did seems like some exausting endurance event to you. My handlers? What the motherfuck? Are you some paranoid whackjob or what? I hope you don't appear later, your commentary is so lame it makes the other twat (gracistabu) look interesting. All you guys that think 9/11 is just another thing to troll about need a good punch to your retarded face.
NYatheist 1 year ago
@NYatheist do you ever think about what u write ........or do u just open your mouth and bleat? too much cab exhaust for you i'm afraid my friend.you mind is all cloudy
Garrys300 1 year ago
@Garrys300 Yeah I think about it. I just meditated for a whole hour about this response to you and all I could come up with after calm and clear reflection is that you one very boring and annoying asshole on YT that should just piss off and let the adults try to communicate about something that matters
NYatheist 1 year ago
@NYatheist but .......how do you really feel?
Garrys300 1 year ago
Genocidal warcrimes? LOL. This guy is a joke.
pqwilrj 1 year ago
The attacks of 9/11 were not of "Islamic" origin. According to former Italian President Francesco Cossiga, former head of German intelligence Andreas Von Bulow, former head of Pakistani ISI Hamid Gul, Former head of US Army War College Dr. Alan Sabrosky, and many others, the 9/11 attacks were run by the American CIA and Israeli Mossad. In fact the 19 patsies who were blamed for it were not even Muslim, but binge drinking, coke-snorting, prostitute chasing hoodlums. Very "unIslamic" behavior.
SeeingThingsClearly 1 year ago 2
@SeeingThingsClearly Tru dat but it seems like most people really can't confront the hard core facts and are a lot more comfortable sticking to the ridiculous MSM/history book/religious arguments.
gracistabu 1 year ago
@SeeingThingsClearly Hamid Gul was in tight with the Taliban. So of course, he'd wish to evade responsibility for the consequences of his actions. Which begs the question of what those other people's motives were...
HiddenAuthor 1 year ago
Hey, dont foget Jewish Temples. For some reason no one speaks about Jews either.
MrHappy702 1 year ago
@MrHappy702 Yah, a Jewish temple at ground zero would be more controversial than a Mosque or Islamic center because the Israeli Mossad was behind 9/11.
/watch?v=3aKj6uJ5Mt4
SeeingThingsClearly 1 year ago
@SeeingThingsClearly Oh yeah I know that, but shhh youre going to push all the stupid liberals that whatch Stef's videos out of their conmfort zone. Just let them continue to watch television. Life is much easier for them that way. You tell me who you can't speak negatively about in a socieity and I'll show you who's in charge.
MrHappy702 1 year ago
@MrHappy702 Well then, even George Bush said that Islam was a religion of peace. Tell me again who cannot be referred negatively?
HiddenAuthor 1 year ago
So you want the same standard to be applied to du'at (spreaders of Islam) and to missionaries (spreaders of Christianity)? Well in Iraq the insurgents kill missionaries. You have said nothing about this. Will you likewise stay silent about (the less aggressive) opposition to the Ground Zero mosque? Oh wait! Too late for that! Oh well!
HiddenAuthor 1 year ago
@HiddenAuthor
He's pointing out the HYPOCRISY of some Americans here NOT justifying anything you're talking about.
ashane77 1 year ago
@ashane77 Yes and I am pointing HIS hypocrisy!
HiddenAuthor 1 year ago
@HiddenAuthor
Its not hypocrisy because he's not applying a double standard.
He did NOT say one instance was immoral while asserting the other one was.
ashane77 1 year ago
@ashane77 But there is a double standard insofar as one event (opposition to the Ground Zero mosque) is seen by Stef as worth mentioning whereas another event (the murder of missionaries) is not seen as mentioning!
HiddenAuthor 1 year ago
@HiddenAuthor
No, it isn't a double-standard since Stef's ideas on religion, private property, aggression, and the role (or lack therof) of the state are consistent and out there for the world to see.
Pointing out the hypocrisy of conservatives and the MSM is not equivalent to being a hypocrite one's self.
I noticed that YOU haven't mentioned or condemned the murders/crimes committed by the USGovt and its allies...does that mean you're a hypocrite who sanctions murder/crime?
ashane77 1 year ago
@ashane77 For some reason people are against a center for the religion that told Bin Laden to do what he did. That SYMPATHY with the VICTIM is condemnable for Stef but he doesn't bother to address the fact that the Islamists kill Christian preachers? Remember America does NOT kill Muslim preachers UNLESS they are ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN TERRORISM a la Anwar Awlaki!
HiddenAuthor 1 year ago
@HiddenAuthor Oh and BTW when Islamists attack synagogues in the West Bank and Gaza and churches throughout the Middle East, that's terrorism and Stef has made it clear that he views terrorism as a PREDICTABLE REACTION to American policy. Well then, could opposition to the Ground Zero Mosque be a PREDICTABLE REACTION to Islamist policy?
HiddenAuthor 1 year ago
@HiddenAuthor
Like I said, Stef's positions on religion, the state, and initiatory violence are well articulated and available for all to see.
Just because he isn't actively condemning EACH and EVERY specific act of violence committed in the world doesn't mean he is being inconsistent or giving tacit approval to them.
"Muslims" aren't killing anyone, INDIVIDUALS who label themselves such are (just like SOME "Americans" murder) which doesn't make ALL who label themselves such responsible.
ashane77 1 year ago
@ashane77 It is debatable whether or not the invasion of 9-11 was in the interest of America. I'd say no. But whether or not 9-11 was in the interest of Islam, that issue is debatable only if you ignore the fact that Mohammed killed whole tribes of men (well, at least one) and sold their women and children into slavery. If that is terrorism, then why would it be Islamically forbidden for bin Laden to commit terrorism today?
HiddenAuthor 1 year ago
Some of the retarded conservaTURD stuff I'm reading about this "outrage"...my gosh these people are batshit insane on top of being utter hypocrites and ignoramuses!
American conservaTURDS = psychopathic morons.
ashane77 1 year ago
Dang...conservaTURDS have hit a new low on this one...making an issue out of this...
It sure doesn't take much effort on the MSM's part to stir up the Peanut Gallery does it?
ashane77 1 year ago
Don't forget about the Native Americans.
chris48162 1 year ago
What I don't get is how these "Patriot Uncle Tom's" can blame Muslim terrorists for the attacks on 9/11, but blame the same group for the collateral damage from our own cruise missiles. Absolutely sick. It's like people don't care about truth in the face of fear and servitude.
InfoGuerilla 1 year ago
@InfoGuerilla Well no one would die if the Muslim terrorists didn't create the war in the first place with their provocations...
HiddenAuthor 1 year ago